A jihad for Tino Rangatiratanga
October 18th, 2004 at 11:08 am by David FarrarKiwi Jew Pundit has an post called Jake the Musslim, which provides a good commentary on the SST article on how many Maori prisoners are turning to Islam.
KJP points out the positives for Maori convicts could include discipline, order, a set of rules, and a ban on alcohol.
But the negatives may include “misogyny, homophobia, and legitimation of nihilistic violence (Kireki-Whaanga feels the attack in Beslan was Islamically legitimate)” and “provide a religious justification for rage-fueled aggression”.
Time will tell whether the positives will outweigh the negatives.
No tag for this post.
October 18th, 2004 at 11:38 am
If they are declaring a Jihad, then I’m all for a pre-emptive strike, it would save the taxpayer a lot of money in the process.
Vote:October 18th, 2004 at 12:10 pm
Ah well, at least the SIS will be successful in its funding application this year.
Vote:October 18th, 2004 at 1:09 pm
If you told them the Zulu movement would get them out or money or land they’d join up. Funny thing though, they don’t seem to be wanting to join Labour. (For when they get out, of course.)
Vote:October 18th, 2004 at 4:04 pm
Actually Adolf (an unfortunate name), your cynicism is misplaced. In the USA radical Islam has found a fertile breeding ground in the black community. Richard Reid the failed shoe bomber, was a black convert to Islam as well.
I wouldnt be so dismissive of the potential for Islam and Maori prisoners to cause significant havoc.
Vote:October 18th, 2004 at 4:13 pm
Can’t see it happening Kiwi Bob. A mass movement of Maori giving up the piss is highly unlikely.
Vote:October 18th, 2004 at 6:09 pm
As with anything there are both positives and negatives; There is a history of the psudeo Muslim sect Nation of Islam in New Zealand, but also more importantly a number of smaller shia (form of Islam practiced in Iran) sects such as the Ismalis. Some of these sects rationalse Jihad to fix any injustice and there were presence of flags with these themes along side the tino rangatiratanga flags at the Hikoi. Religeon in this form is empowering, and will probably do more good than harm. The facts suggest that minority sects are more appealing to Maori means that they are less likely to be violent, Jihad is unlikely to be by the sword in this case but by the word and deed.
Vote:October 18th, 2004 at 7:21 pm
I beg to differ, Jules.
On page A6 of yesterday’s SST (no link, sorry), Te Amorangi Izhaq Kireka-Whaanga was calling Osama bin Laden a “hero” and the Beslan school slaughter “justifiable.”
Go find yourself a copy of the paper.
Vote:October 18th, 2004 at 7:54 pm
Kiwi Bob, I don’t dismiss the possibility that a few demented ex cons might cause some mayhem, even kill a few infidels. My name is actually a salutory reminder to the bleeding hearts of how, with the best of intentions, the leftie appeasers can screw up the whole world. Last time they did it they cost 60 million lives.
Mark, no more pork in the bloody hangi, eh!! Au e!! Worse still no more jumping the fence for a bit of stray whahine. Hey Man, you could have Tame Iti for PM.
Vote:October 18th, 2004 at 7:59 pm
Jules – you comments seem admirably ambitious to me.
If you’re interested, I’ve posted some quotes from Mr Kireka-Whaanga on my blog – and we certainly ain’t talking ‘spiritual jihad’ in this instance.
I still think the real issue here is that FIANZ are funding this guy while he is out there saying he personally “loves” Osama Bin Laden.
Vote:October 19th, 2004 at 1:35 pm
The two beefs I have with the story are that (a) it features much of the reporting characteristics of a beat-up (shock! horror! …but precious little substance) and (b) I fail to see how a bunch of sexist, homophobic, aggressive Maori Muslims are meaningfully worse than, say, the sexist, homophobic, aggressive Maori Christians over at Destiny. Especially when one considers Destiny are a great deal more popular and well-funded.
Vote:October 19th, 2004 at 2:28 pm
i second rodger. especially part b.
Vote:October 19th, 2004 at 2:44 pm
last time I checked, destiny weren’t fans of Osama, and didn’t think that Beslan was justifiable act.
Vote:October 19th, 2004 at 2:51 pm
and nor do we see Brian Tamaki’s flock going around sawing off the heads of infidels.
Vote:October 19th, 2004 at 3:11 pm
In terms of religious appeal Islam mainly appeals to Maori who live primarily within tribal structures where Destiny appeals to urban Maori. a doctral thesis anyone?
Vote:October 19th, 2004 at 4:03 pm
Mark: Well, gee. I guess if you’re only advocating rounding up and jailing homosexuals and barring non-Destiny interpretations of Christianity, that’s really OK, right?
Vote:October 19th, 2004 at 4:21 pm
I would disagree with that Jules – I think Destiny appeals to both rural and urban Maori. Pastor Brian grew up in Te Awamutu, and another local pastor grew up on a marae in Taumaranui. I myself grew up on a Marae and I am currently attending a Destiny Church – there are people from all walks of life there, and all upbrinings – And just because on the March there were alot of Maori – doesnt mean Destiny is a Maori church.
I dont think destiny is anything like the muslim/islam tradition either – Jesus is lord not Mohammed. And with regards to how they treat other human beings (warring in Iraq, women, homosexuals etc) I think its awful!
Just because I dont agree with what someone does, doesnt mean I hate them or treat them like a lesser person – I want people to know this, because there is this thought that destiny people hate gay people and hate people who are in de-facto relationships or hate people who have been divorced – that is rubbish! We marched against the government passing certain legislations – doesnt mean we hate people!
The last thing God wants is for people to kill in his name, holy war is garbage – Paul said our weapons are not of the flesh and are not carnal!
And if you think the March on parliament was aggressive – I would oppose that opinion to. I was at the march and it was as the Wellington police put it – a peaceful and well organised march. I think what the Media portrayed with relation to the march etc – was very negative and very distorted.
Before I came to Destiny I has very bad self esteem, drunk, smoke, toke drugs, I was a Uni drop out, and was just a physical and emotional and spiritual mess. Now Im totally 100% drug and alcohol free, have a great job, and I am finishing off my studies at the same time- have a great family relationship and have met heaps of loving and supportive people – who accpeted me for who I was – not what I had done.
I had learned Te Reo gone to Kura Kaupapa learnt about Rangi and Papa – did the whole get in touch with my roots thing – it did nothing – I went to Uni because I thought that would make me happy – did nothing – I tried alcohol, drugs – did nothing!
I now know only God can make you whole.
I think people have a lot of preconceived ideas about destiny – but I truly believe if they actually took the time to have a look for themeslves and what the church is REALLY like they would be sooooo surprised!
Vote:October 19th, 2004 at 4:44 pm
Rodger, I think Destiny is as nutty as a fruitcake. But there is simply no comparison.
Vote:http://www.ogrish.com/index/Beheading-Video-Of-British-Hostage-Kenneth-Bigley-Released-By-Tawhid-and-Jihad-Group/
October 19th, 2004 at 7:16 pm
actually what I find interesting about the whole thing is that the tino rangitritanga (spelling?) has in the past a lot of sympathizers out on the left (greens/alliance/all the various communist sects). Yet these are two socially conservative movements that maori have aligned themselves with.
When you think back to maori voting en masse
Vote:for winnie in 96 I find this dichotomy between the liberal left’s support for a movement for which a large section of the population actually is opposed to the leftist/enviromentalist vision really interesting.
October 19th, 2004 at 9:03 pm
Wow – some of you fellas really don’t get it do you?
Scary.
Once again, you are blinding yourself in academic and theoretical back n’ forth. A common affliction, to be sure.
Having a self-professed ‘militant-minded’ Muslim trying to convert prisoners to a belief that “loves” Osama and “justifies” Beslan is not good.
Having the Federation of Islamic Associations funding this activity demonstrates that they are not working hard enough to discourage radical interpretations of Islam.
On the contrary.
Vote:October 20th, 2004 at 8:20 am
Mark: Well, gee. I guess if you’re only advocating rounding up and jailing homosexuals and barring non-Destiny interpretations of Christianity, that’s really OK, right?
HAHA! Who said Destiny think Queer people should be jailed???? Just because we dont agree with an action someone is doing doesnt mean we think they shoudl be put in jail! Pastor Brian (or anyone else from Destiny) has never said that – it is not up to us to punish….
And we dont bar non-destiny christianity! Destiny work along side many other churches and denominations. What Destiny do disagree with is non-biblical preaching of the bible. Basically when someone comprises God and his word – doesnt mean we hate them and/or persecute them etc…..we just know its wrong….
Yeah this weekend Bernice King – Martin Luther King’s daughter is speaking at Destiny! Woohoo!
Vote:October 28th, 2004 at 7:19 pm
Kia ora koutou katoa i roto i te ahuatanga o te wa nei,
“Whoever puts his nationality before Islam is not a Muslim” Prophet Muhammad (saw).
As President of the Aotearoa Maori Muslim Community, firstly their are some corrections that need to be made to that article.
1) We are not Maori nationalists, we are Islamic Fundamentalists.
2) We are not anti-Pakeha because not only do we have Pakeha Muslim Convert Members but ALLAH SWT created Adam the Father of Humanity and all Nations are Brothers and Sisters.
3) I do not condone the actions of the Chechen Muslims in Beslan but we are aware of their struggle against communist Russia.
4) I do not convert Inmates to Islam but I do speak to inmates who have converted.
5) We are not militant but we are confrontational in the defense of Islam and Muslims.
and lastly:
6) FIANZ does not finance my Prison visits.
All praise be to ALLAH RABBUL AZEEM! Our Maori Muslim Community are ahlus sunnah wal Jammah and our Madhab is Shafi (Although we do have some Sufis and Jammat Tableegh)
Vote:We are a very devoted community and we just love our International Muslim Brothers and Sisters too much, we understand the commandment saying that it is unlawful to cut ties of kinship because most of us love the Muslim Community more than we love our own non Muslim Families. Our hearts bleed at the plight of our Muslim Brothers and Sisters suffering oppression in Palestine, Chechnya, Bosnia, Iraq, Afganistan etc.
But we all understand that we have a duty to share Islam to our Maori people and we know that the only way is to follow the example of our Prophet Muhammad (saw)
ma’a salaama,
Te Amorangi Izhaq Kireka-Whaanga
President of The Muslim Association of Hawkes Bay.
Hastings.