Choice or Nature

December 7th, 2004 at 9:59 am by David Farrar

I see Paul Adams has said “The ‘homosexual lifestyle’ should not be portrayed as normal to children, he said. “It is not genetic, it is a choice. We were born male and female as far as I am concerned. We are one or the other.”

I’ve always wanted to ask someone saying that, well when did you decide to be heterosexual. Chris Matthews in the US has done just that, asking Jerry Falwell:

MATTHEWS: How old were you when you chose to be heterosexual?
FALWELL: Oh, I don’t remember that.
MATTHEWS: Well, you must, because you say it’s a big decision.
FALWELL: Well, I started dating when I was about 13.
MATTHEWS: And you had to decide between boys and girls. And you chose girls.
FALWELL: I never had to decide. I never thought about it.

Wonkette has more on it. Very very funny.

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25 Responses to “Choice or Nature”

  1. Craig Ranapia () says:

    Memo to Paul Adams: I don’t have a lifestyle, I have a life. Try getting one yourself.

    Of course, this is the man who appears to think you can catch HIV by sitting across a table from a HIV-positive person so I won’t be holding my breath.

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  2. Will de Cleene () says:

    Considering his lack of scientific understanding, Paul Adams shouldn’t make claims he can’t prove. Like most Nuture vs. Nature arguments, we don’t know what causes homosexuality. Here’s the latest best guess: http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996519.

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  3. Bob Howard () says:

    My answer to people who condemn homosexuals especially with the bible behind them is to say “aren’t you lucky you weren’t born homosexual look what you would have had to put up with”.

    With what I have learnt over the years I am convinced homosexuality is genetic. Falwell types have to take the attitude they do because otherswise their whole belief system would crumble.

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  4. Jordan () says:

    It’s a bizarre claim, but a common one. I tried to explain it to someone making a civil union inquiry like this:

    “Finally let me say that sexuality is not a choice. People can choose their behaviour; gay people can pretend to be straight, or straight people can experiment. They cannot change who they are though, and living in denial does nobody any good – least of all people who might end up in relationships based on a lie.”

    Seems pretty obvious to me.

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  5. Mike Moore () says:

    I do like the fact that Paul Adams is fasting for 21 days to show his opposition and also hoped that the Bill would not send the wrong message to children.
    I’m guessing that the fastinfg will send a rather dodgy message to the kids Paul!!!

    I wonder what he’s pujting in his mouth these three weeks? Can someone send him a vibrator maybe?

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  6. Glenn () says:

    Let

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  7. Adolf Fiinkesein () says:

    Such a tiresome debate. I think Jordan is right and Mike Moore should apply for state funded euthanasia. Doesn’t MM know it is I who stands accused of lowering the tone?

    I really wish everybody could leave the homosexuals alone and let them get on with whatever it is they get on. Civil Union Bill? A load of bloody nonsense from what I can see. If they want property rights and next of kin recognition what on earth stops them from entering into property agreements and making declarations as to who is a deemed next of kin?. Just another distraction from the 9th floor. Most NZers think there are far more important issues for our polies to be attending to.

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  8. Conor () says:

    Well some Falwell type left a comment on my blog http://www.constar.blogspot.com

    Quoting anonymous:

    “Hey Faggot,

    Stuff your thumb up your ass!”

    Wicked thanks mate.

    I hope you all have visited http://wizard.civilunions.org.nz/1.asp

    -Our email wizard and sent the MPs a supportive email.
    Con

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  9. Craig Ranapia () says:

    Con –

    Um, yes… Don’t you wonder about all these ‘normal’ folks who have an unhealthy fixation with buggery and the anuses of complete strangers?

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  10. Tomas () says:

    Thought for the day: if Paul Adams’ fast doesn’t work and the bill passes, does that prove him to be a sinner ’cause god isn’t listening to him?

    Sounds like a really really dumb publicity stunt to me!

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  11. Jordan () says:

    I think those of us in Wellington should all show up at Paul Adams’ office on Friday (if we can do it through the hangover) with chocolate cakes for him…

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  12. David Farrar () says:

    Jordan – even better to bring fish and chips on Thursday so he has to sit through the debate smelling the food he can not eat :-)

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  13. Jordan () says:

    When does his fast finish?

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  14. Adolf Fiinkensein () says:

    Tomas, you are right on the button. This guy is just like all the idiot clerics who publicly prayed for the US led invasion of Iraq to not take place. Funny thing is, I haven’t heard that even one of these fine gentlemen and women (pronounced “wimen” ztev) has renounced his/her faith. (Hell, its good fun being a pedant!!!)
    Some group is even fasting in relays of four hours each. Now, just think about that.

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  15. tim barclay () says:

    Paul Adams is simply an ignoramus or has he had his own problems with his sexuality hence the “choice” factor. If gays really had this choice, 99.999% would chose to be straight if they had a choice. After-all straights do have a much easier time of it, especially if you are white, middle-class and like rugby. But they do not have a choice, so Paul Adams is just a plain old fashioned bigot. I just wish his ‘fast’ was a serious one and perhaps he could forget about water as well and do everyone a favour.

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  16. legbeforewicket () says:

    Twelve months ago, there was no question on my mind, that Civil Unions were a proper and positive development in our modern society.

    From all the comments above, plus the incessant dishonesty I have heard from the gay community over the last year or so, I am now firmly convinced that there is good reason why history has repeatedly rejected homosexuality.

    Homosexuality has had many days in the sun, over both time and geography. Every time, the communities have collectively corrected their mistakes in very short order, and rejected it again. The periods of rejection have far outlasted the periods of acceptance.
    For good reasons, I have to say.

    And my guess is that my change in opinion is fairly typical of New Zealand as a whole over recent months. New Zealanders don

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  17. Ross K () says:

    I think the “sexual preferences as a choice” debate is a bit of a red herring – as are comments about what “causes” homosexuality. Keneth Minogue wrote in an article that contemporary politics and liberalism focuses on trying to control what we think rather than focusing, as is more appropriate for civil government purposes, on how we behave. Whether one chooses to be gay, straight, or attracted to farm animals, or whether one is compelled by genetics (environment?) to exhibit that preference is irrelevant. The issue is whether the behaviour in question is socially beneficial (to be encouraged), socially neutral (to be ignored), or socially detrimental (to be discouraged). My gut feeling is that homosexual relationships are, on the whole, socially detrimental and that the general liberal validation of them deprecates the value of a more regular heterosexual pairing. Historically homosexuality was often considered socially acceptable so long as it was not exclusive (to the extent of precluding a classic nuclear family unit).

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  18. tim barclay () says:

    My regret in hearing Labour politicians staunchly defend the right of people to do what they like in the privacy of their own bedrooms, is they should take the same approach to economic policy and let people have the freedom to earn their own income without confiscating massive amounts of it through overtaxation, and having all sorts of rules etc etc on how they should operate. The passionate arguments in favour of gay relationships have been impressive I must say, now how about the same passion for the freedom to earn a living without all that envy and bigotry they have over money.

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  19. dan () says:

    Its so damn easy to jump up on our little soap box and declare that anyone who disagrees with us is a hateful bigoted sinner.
    Heck, anyone can do that.

    On the other hand, it’s tricky as all hell to be big-hearted enough to respect our fellow man despite our differences and to seek a way forward together in deference and humility.

    We all need to shut our foul mouths and grow the hell up.

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  20. tim barclay () says:

    Forcing men to live a lie regarding their sexuality is very hard on the straight women who have the misfortune of being married to them. Is that what Adams and co are proposing??

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  21. Ross K () says:

    I thought all married men lived a lie – as do all married women. Isn’t shared delusion the basis of all healthy relationships?

    Anyway, in the words of Mae West (I believe), “Nature is what we were put on this earth to rise above”. Having a desire to do something is a pretty poor argument for saying that doing something is a good idea. I like chocolate – doesn’t mean it is good for me to eat it.

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  22. legbeforewicket () says:

    Who’s forcing men to live a lie? And how the fuck does CUB change anything in that respect?

    That is one of the deceptions that I talk about above. I am sick to death of the lies and dishonesty on this issue.

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  23. tim barclay () says:

    The CUB doe not force men to live a lie, it permits open gay relationships with all the consequential advantages that a “spouse” gets from the Law. Adams and Co want the lies to continue with all that damage to a straight partner.

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  24. legbeforewicket () says:

    Sorry, Tim, but the CUB does nothing of the sort. The Relationships Bill which was to have accompanied it might have, but it has been permanently canned – they say temporarily, but do you really think they will revive it in election year. Not fricken likely.

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