Kiwibank
It is good more and more media are reporting that Kiwibank is artifically inflating its profits by including the bill payment services that NZ Post were already providing.
The article also reports that Kiwibank mortgages are 0.45% more expensive than BNZ, and it is also may need more funding that the $120 million to date.
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December 6th, 2004 at 1:21 pm
From the Kiwibank annual report:
“Agency Services fee revenue and expenditure (see note 3) are included in Kiwibank under a management agreement whereby Kiwibank manages the agency activity of NZP. Agency activity consists of collection agency business, eBill electronic bill presentation and payment business”
This is perfectly standard practice in any group of companies. Bill payments are clearly closer to banking than to postal delivery, so NZ Post is entirely justified in operating those services through the Kiwibank subsidiary, even though they are branded as NZP at the moment. The revenue *and* expenses are being charged to Kiwibank, so I can’t see any overstatement of profits.
December 6th, 2004 at 1:58 pm
The bill paying is a useful way of showing Kiwibank in a better light, but putting cash and cheque transactions through your own bank is the best way to do it, otherwise you would have to use a separate bank which would presumably incur larger transaction costs.
I wonder if the Supermarket chain owned Superbank does the same with the supermarkets transactions.
David you are being misleading with the interest rates of Kiwibank.
BNZ is a special ‘new business’ only rate.
For existing borrowers Kiwibank’s floating rate is 8.25% while Westpac is 8.8%. This is what most borrowers will be paying.
As well the term investment for $10,000 for 6months, a typical amount ,KB is 6.6% while westpac is 5.95%
Is the fact Jim Bolger the chair of KB, the reason for this strange obsession , Did he refuse to give the job in the PM’s department that you finally got under Shipley. lets hope your research of past PMs is a lot more rigourous than the headline skimming which is the sum total of your info on KB
December 6th, 2004 at 2:25 pm
Rich – by refusing to disclose what proportion of profit comes from a pre-existing service, Kiwibank and the Government and making it *impossible* to judge whether or not the $120 million investment is worthwhile. If they had private shareholders they would get sued for lack of disclosure.
Ztev – you do realise that everytime you turn a thread personal, you confirm to everyone what a wanker you are. You are the most obnoxious poster on this blog.
December 6th, 2004 at 2:37 pm
David, I am beginning to think that Ztev might be an ex girlfriend of both you and I, such is the level of bitterness and vindictive commentary.
Ztev – I shall always treasure our moments we had together. I’m sorry I didn’t call the next day.
December 6th, 2004 at 2:59 pm
Love you long Time too, Aaron
December 6th, 2004 at 5:15 pm
NZ.Post can also make up any shortfall in their profits caused by shifting fee services to Kiwibank by putting up postal charges on which they have a virtual monopoly and as they have recently done..easy eh
December 6th, 2004 at 6:53 pm
Ztev, I don’t care how “good” Kiwibank’s rates are, they are subsidised, one way or another, by the taxpayer. Personally, I couldn’t bring myself to hold an account with Anderton’s wet-dream for fear of being an assumed peasant/beneficiary/general sponger every timeI pull out a eftpos card bearing the bank’s logo.
I’m surprised the outfit hasn’t attracted the financial services version of Lada jokes.
December 7th, 2004 at 8:29 am
How can this bank make money given their customer base. I am sure there will be all sorts of creative accounting including the way they apportion the network costs to make this thing look good. It is basically a social service, question is do we need it? It would be more better to present the books on this thing honestly and we can have an straight forward debate about its use. But I am not confident of this given who runs this.
December 7th, 2004 at 8:30 am
Well your ’status’ accounts with the major banks- I bet you were an early adopter for a GOLD credit card- are costing the taxpayers much much more, based on the IRD estimates that they pay minimal tax in NZ ( ASB actually got a refund).
Clever structured finance deals with overseas parents means they recover the usual tax on the NZ profits.
As usual you get stiffed both ways by your choice
December 7th, 2004 at 8:42 am
Ztev, you make the mistake of presuming too much about me personally, which just makes you sound like a wanker. I have never held a “Gold” card because they confer no useful benefits for me.
I do hold a good number of shares in the bank I have accounts with which turn a nice dividend thanks to its healthy profit, nicely off-setting the stiffing you assume I am suffering.
Try getting hold of shares in Kiwibank (not that I’d want any), they don’t exist in the public domain, but if they did I imagine they would be pretty much worthless.
December 7th, 2004 at 9:43 am
As one who more than once has been accused either of “being offensive” or “lowering the tone” on certain blogs I’m delighted to see the phonetically educated ztev has wone the title of Wanker Number One. Reminds me of the old financeial services joke “What’s the difference between a wanker and a banker? The wanker knows what he’s doing.” Shouldn’t be too hard to find some Kiwiwank derivation.
December 7th, 2004 at 10:09 am
Paul , I havent presumed anything, your own words
“I couldn’t bring myself to hold an account -” indicate a self important pratt.
As for worrying about the social status of fellow borrowers, get over your self.
Look in any major retail store and see the hordes of people signing up to credit deals on major appliances, I bet you dont worry if THEY are blue bloods like you. That remins me, a major player is GE, which is able to maximise its overall profits by loading the financial services side with income instead of booking it on the manufacturing side. Ford and GM are reputed to be Banks that make cars on the side, only because they too can load the credit side with income that would normally go to the manufacturing- globalisation means less tax is paid on financial operations.Expect Kiwibank to do more of the same, maybe even having the posties with KB uniforms.
Last laugh !!
December 7th, 2004 at 11:57 am
“self important pratt”
Now you are just being offensive. I see no point in engaging with some one who has been taught what to think.
December 7th, 2004 at 1:49 pm
Does anyone know if the small businesses that had to take on Kiwibank branch status are actually benefitting their bottom lines by the move?
December 7th, 2004 at 8:57 pm
Good point pundito.
Usually extra business is good for a franchise operation. They get paid more for handling more transactions, plus if they get a standard brokers commission of 1% for writing up a home loan, that means $1000 bucks for an hours work on a $100,000 home loan. None of the banking risk of loan defaults,etc is taken by the franchise. And there must be enough bank trained staff around to make staff recruitment not a drama. Of course some just want to do stamps and post boxes, and they still do.
I suppose a franchise gives a certainty to a small business, but does have some downsides, but they can move on up to swap for a larger operation with the same franchise,or get out to do something different
A lot of the negative stuff about KB is orchestrated by the major banks, with the Nats/ACT as their stooges. I mean look at the customer satisfaction surveys, some banks like the ANZ should no longer be in business, their customer relations are so bad
December 8th, 2004 at 10:03 am
If you made 100% of your customers happy then you’d be out of business – mainly because borrowers want zero percent lending rates while the depositers would want huge deposit rates and everyone wants no fees
The ones that were really getting ripped by the banks weren’t the low volumes high transaction customers that Kiwibank was set up to attract but the high volme low transaction customers who were subsidising the rest. Instead Anderton marketed a state model that targeted the low vol / high transact customers (who thought that they were getting ripped off) and allowed the Big 5 to offload a % of those that were on the customer base – so eff we paid to pick up the Banks shitkickers off of them and have been conned into thinking that we (NZ) are getting a great deal.
Dunno the model may work if they can pull soem institutional stuff. Incidentially have the Govt transferred their transactional and banking arrangements from WTBC to KB?? Must be a difficult one that one for them at some stage – if they don’t then they aren’t backing their own concept … and if they do then it’d be questionable how open and transparent that decision would be.
December 8th, 2004 at 10:10 am
And yet they are ztev. So what does that say about customer service surveys? Bear in mind that there are very few barriers to changing banks nowadays.
If we give your final statement the sort of analysis you applied to Pauls we can safely assume that you are an elitist liberal wanker who sneers down your nose at the ignorant masses for their idiotic and unfathomable (atleast by correct thinkers such as yourself) devotion to a bank that all intellectual exercises dictate should be dead in the water.
December 8th, 2004 at 11:33 am
Well I did dump an account I had with ANZ, which I opened when I worked for Postbank, when they sent me an overbearing letter and then made it worse I had to give all sorts of reasons why I wanted to close the account. Westpac my present bank I would dump tomorrow since they are moving their interest rates ahead of the market, but the chageover costs are too high( again i opened an account with the Trustbank but got stuck with Westpac). Buying up the competition is a way of using your market power to get customers who wouldnt go near you. Techically some of the Bigbanks did go very near insolvency from the late 80’s but different rules apply to the ruling class , and keeping customers satisfied is the least of their concerns(ANZ has recognised that by keeping the national bank brand and its management to run their own crippled brand- proving my point, and the masses agree with me!
But its nice to see the Bumboys for the Bigbanks showing their true colours, because KB branding doesnt use sportspeople, hot babes, and brightyoungthings drinking lattes in Ponsonby Rd
you think they are beneficiaries who a Bank cant make money out of. When I have been in PostShop/KB branches, the customers seem to be the same as the area the branch is in.
And this I do know, when I worked for Postbank, I was told that they had a huge base of low interest bearing accounts they made a lot of money with, as they say theres gold in dross sometimes
December 8th, 2004 at 11:43 am
Of course they make money from low interest bearing (ie deposit) accounts – because the get a higher spread on the lending (asset) side of the ledger. Every one would love to attract low deposit high lending rate spreads.
Its the low volume high transac accounts that cost money. Interesting to se that the KB Colours are Red and Green – same as Andertons now screwed Alliance party – concidence?? Pull the other its just a huge toss off for his ego.
The ANZ must be stoked with KB getting set up and letting them dump their 3rd Tier clients – buying Postbank is what buggered their branding as they eff became the Benefits and Bludgers bank (you should have checked out the quese outside the ANZ ATMs in Taumaranui on a Thursday arvo in the mid 90’s if you have any doubt) – with KB they can pass that mantle on and go about rebuilding their brand.
Personally I wouldn’t go around boasting that I worked for Postbank.
December 8th, 2004 at 12:33 pm
Brilliant response, ztev!
“Well I closed MY account because I didnt like ANZ.”
From this I have managed to extrapolate the following in regards to how ztev’s mind works.
1. Me so smart.
2. Me not like ANZ
3. Them with ANZ stupid
“the masses agree with me!” I bloody love this line.
Commie Test
1. Do you consider the masses to be dissaffected?
2. Do you know what is the right course of action for the masses?
3. Do you speak for the masses, who for whatever oppressive reason are incapable of speaking for themselves?
December 8th, 2004 at 1:57 pm
ZTEV reminds us of the big banking losses of the late 80s – Remind me, of all the banks who needed bailing out in 1990 (There was 1) who was the shareholder (it was NZ Govt, therefore the taxpayer) that needed to bail it out.
We’ve already bailed out Kiwibank once, we look as though we will need to do it again.
P.S. Isn’t ZTEV a Honda engine they stopped making cause of the incessent whine?
December 8th, 2004 at 5:14 pm
Westpac and ANZ were close to insolvency(thats why NAB was able to get the BNZ ,even at a great price the others couldnt do it).
Who deregulated the financial markets and failed to ensure prudent banking lending practices , the BNZ seemed to have a lot of money lent to its part owner Capital Markets (aka FR)