Clark to plead for Aussie drug mule
November 27th, 2005 at 12:56 pm by David FarrarI note the Australian Government has asked Helen Clark to lobby the Singaporean PM to not execute Melbourne drug trafficker Nguyen Tuong Van.
If we were to behave like the Aussie Rigby Union had, we should ask the Singaporean’s to hurry the execution up, and webcast it!
I am sure Clark will do as asked, but not go overboard with it. I suspect a conversation like this:
Clark: We would rather you do not execute Nguyen Tuong Van
Nguyen Tuong Van: I understand
Clark: So will you execute him:
Nguyen Tuong Van: Yes
Clark: Okay
November 27th, 2005 at 2:35 pm
Nonsense, Howard has said Cluck was not asked by the Aust. government..
Vote:She is acting in support of the Aust. Labor opposition who think they can gain some mileage.
This is one dead drug smuggler, methinks, with between one and nine more possibles (Bali 9) in Indonesia.
November 27th, 2005 at 3:56 pm
The only surprise is that an Australian drug trafficker has not been executed long before this. Maybe now they might get the message.
Vote:November 27th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Michael McAuliffe, hung in Malaysia, 1993.
Yep, that deterrence argument sure works a treat.
Vote:November 27th, 2005 at 4:35 pm
I am amazed at the efforts the Aussies are putting in to try to have his sentence commuted, if Sky News is to be believed. I note how-ever they seem to be avoiding testing the views of their audience on the issue in their daily news polls.
Vote:November 27th, 2005 at 4:40 pm
“She is acting in support of the Aust. Labor opposition who think they can gain some mileage.”
You do realise that there are other reasons why Clark might be acting. A NZer, Kerry Mitchell, was recently arrested in Thailand and is alleged to be involved in smuggling 40kg of heroin smuggling opration to Australia.
Due to the large quantity of drugs involved, there is a distinct possiblity that he could be given the death penalty. Clark’s advocation over Nguyen could also be explained by her wanting to set out a consistent policy on New Zealand’s view of the death penalty so later down the track it can point to this in any representations.
Vote:November 27th, 2005 at 5:30 pm
Lucky Kerry. Malaysia, Singers or Indonesia would all be fatal venues for 40kg.
Vote:Thailand is a tiny bit more reluctant to zap Westerners and he’ll get remissions off the life sentence when the King has a birthday or the royal elephant has twins etc.
November 27th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Matt just because some people still smuggle drugs to Asia is in no way proof that lots have not been deterred by the death penalty.
Drug smugglers tend to be a wee bit more intelligent than your average crim and I am sure many of them do avoid Asia simply because the penalties are so firmer than Australia.
Vote:November 27th, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Still, it don’t seem to be stopping the drugs from making their way onto the streets does it?
Funny how right-wingers are such rabid advocates of supply and demand in some cases, yet when it comes to drugs they seem to forget their economics.
Vote:November 27th, 2005 at 6:20 pm
“Funny how right-wingers are such rabid advocates of supply and demand in some cases, yet when it comes to drugs they seem to forget their economics.”
Right, us right wingers also want more prostitutes as the demand for that isn’t met either.
Grow up!
Vote:November 27th, 2005 at 6:26 pm
“I am amazed at the efforts the Aussies are putting in to try to have his sentence commuted, if Sky News is to be believed. I note how-ever they seem to be avoiding testing the views of their audience on the issue in their daily news polls.”
Come and live over in Australia, it is much worse than you think. It is like Schapelle Corby all over again. People are wanting trade sanctions against Singapore (it is like in the 80s and 90s when Australia’s bilaterial relationship with Malaysia turned sour after comments by both Hawke and Keating over barbaric Malaysia). Everyday some new pundit comes us with some new way to get Nguyen’s death sentence commuted (we even had the Victorian Attorney-General fly to Singapore).
One poll I remember seeing this week said that around 48-49% of people thought Howard had done enough, but this view is almost never made public. * The issue of saving Nguyen has dominated every single media outlet. I am not just talking about the ABC, but even The Australian in some of their news coverage has been continually championing Nguyen’s cause without providing another perspective.
*About the only sensible voice is Andrew Bolt see his column on the issue. http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,17333714%255E25717,00.html
Vote:November 27th, 2005 at 6:38 pm
The Bali 9 also have stuff in common with socialism ie. faulty or no pricing mechanism in their worldview.
Vote:They sold their lives or 30 years for AUD 10,000.
November 27th, 2005 at 8:58 pm
I lived for two years in Singapore, it’s one of the safest places in the world.
there’s a reason for that.
If you want a long and happy life you do not break the rules. That’s it, no discussion.
If that doesn;t suit you, don’t go there. I really don;t think there are any western nations who are in a position to tell Singapore how to handle law and order, least of all New Zealand.
I don’t think many of our self elected intellectual elite would be happy there.
Vote:November 27th, 2005 at 9:04 pm
How many people’s lives could be destroyed by a packet of heroine not that I am supporting the use of the death penalty in this case but it is not hard to imagine situations where killing the drug dealer does less harm to him than his drugs would have done to the users.
And a willing mule is culpable just like the other essential steps – a willing street seller or willing trader or willing grower or willing manufacturer.
Vote:November 27th, 2005 at 9:11 pm
I totally agree Murray. Some of the key factors in this case are that the amount of drugs meant they were definitely for supply, there was no doubt as to who the guilty party was and the defendant was fully aware of the penalties if caught.
He had a choice – he chose to do the crime. Now he should pay the penalty.
Vote:November 28th, 2005 at 2:22 am
seems like most on here think in 2005 that hanging is an intelligent, modern punisment and acts as a deterant to others… I think you’ll find any intelligent democracy has ceased capital punishment and mandatory death sentances a long, long time ago. Why not wipe out a list of other types of people while you’re at it with your clever act of hanging… and see if that works…
Vote:November 28th, 2005 at 4:26 am
“seems like most on here think in 2005 that hanging is an intelligent, modern punisment and acts as a deterant to others…”
I don’t see anyone here saying that. I respect Singapore’s right to enforce its laws which is what it is doing here. Or do you think that Australians should be exempt from Singapore’s laws?
Vote:November 28th, 2005 at 9:29 am
Singapore has as much right to enforce its own laws (as much as Sadam Hussein and Robert Mugabe? – there has to be a qualification in there) but, this idiot surely can have no defence – he knew of the penalty and he committed the crime anyway. As much as I do not agree with the death penalty, it really is hard to have sympathy for him – that is unless his employers had some kind of hold over him?
Vote:November 28th, 2005 at 11:45 am
Nguyen gambled and lost.When he is hanged,his drug dealing brother should be made to watch.
Vote:November 28th, 2005 at 3:50 pm
For the benefit of Mike and Matt – the latest research on the deterrent effect of capital punishment puts the number of lives saved per execution at 14 (+/- 10). Those ‘intelligent’ democracies that have banned it actually have more blood on their hands!
Vote:November 28th, 2005 at 3:51 pm
Jay, u miss my point. Do u agree or not agree with a government, any government, allowed to execute , by it’s own law or whatever, to hang or put to death a citizen for a crime? Or do u long for when every democracy will cease such activities?
Vote:November 28th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Living in Singapore at the moment, this issue is also being discussed. While there are those who take a strong line in the public about the horrors of the drug trade, Singapore’s soverieng rights etc, what many locals are privately saying is that the Aussies are only concerned because its one of their citizens. They never make a noise about the other people executed in Singapore, whether for drugs or otherwise. Many locals would like the death penalty removed as well, but feel (and are) powerless to make such a change. They have seen their own family or friends executed without a sound from the Aussie papers. Those countries that could advocate for change (like Aus) only make matters worse by bleating loudly only about one of their own citizens – this just makes the gahmen dig their heels in. A more consistent and sustained effort would get a better reception.
Vote:November 28th, 2005 at 4:25 pm
Jay….I’ve read that column,quality work, and I agree with every word….Mike Moore..as long as the Goverment is a true democracy I would welcome the return of Capital punishment and I have no doubt our crime rate would plummet.
Vote:November 28th, 2005 at 5:43 pm
Hang ‘em and flog ‘em – the right’s response to every social problem. How about asking Arthur Allen Thomas for his views on the death penalty, or the Birmingham Six, whose trial Judge actually said he would have hung them if he could?
Vote:November 28th, 2005 at 5:55 pm
Let them all go, they havent done anything wrong except for break your silly little laws, better 100 violent rapists go free and rape thousands of more women, than one innocent man gets imprisoned for ten years – the left’s solution for everything.
” I have no doubt our crime rate would plummet” – depends on how liberally it was applied. Can you imagine how our media would react in the lead up to the first execution? The bad press alone would be enough to stay the politico’s wobbly hand and I have no doubt that the statute would be repealed before the first executions took place.
Vote:November 28th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
The death penalty debate has gone on forever.I expect no immediate globally warm and fuzzy consensus.The point is,should Australia or NZ offically try to interfere with the clearly stated Singapore policy?Is their doing so counter-productive? Obviously Singaporeans have differing views but I’d bet good money that the prevailing view there is : “they don’t give a flying rat’s arse when our own people get hanged,but look how excitable they are when it is one of their own in “trouble”.The prevailing PC ideology tells us that all cultures are equal ,but oddly enough, we become squeamish when some of the more “troubling” issues like capital punishment,female circumcision,honour murders and the like,get close to home.
Vote:Just a wee question to leave you with.Should NZ taxpayers fork out for some immigrants to sexually /surgically mutilate their women and cause them to have difficult births?
November 28th, 2005 at 6:06 pm
Um… Sean? Where do you get your stats? Really, I’d love to see where and how those claims are quantified.
Vote:November 28th, 2005 at 6:14 pm
the deterrent effect of capital punishment puts the number of lives saved per execution at 14 (+/- 10)
Sounds like a REAL precise study . . .
Vote:November 28th, 2005 at 6:22 pm
“lives saved per execution at 14 (+/- 10)”
You cant be precise with this sort of thing. Still it isnt as if the number is 13 (+/- 14). It would be interesting to see where these figures come from and whether the +/- 10 was a confidence interval or a min/max.
Vote:November 28th, 2005 at 6:32 pm
I think Sean’s ‘research’ comes from some right wing political think tank. And Baxter – why would you think the crime rate would plummet? The crime rate tends to be as high in countries with the death penalty as those with out, and in countries before and after the abolition of the death penalty.
Vote:November 28th, 2005 at 7:43 pm
“right wing political think tank.”
Ever notice how only right wingers, neo-cons and conservatives have THINK tanks? What do left wingers have? Group therapy?
Vote:November 28th, 2005 at 8:00 pm
Howard is striking just the right note, he’s at the cricket that day.
Australians seem to be quietly pissed off at this little bastard.
Vote:His family was taken in after fleeing from the commies in Vietnam and has one son with drug and assault convictions and another about to be hanged who intended to bring the drugs back to the country that sheltered them.
The defence claimed that it was to pay off the brother’s debt, about $30,000.
Anyone not obviously drunk and who has a job can walk into any bank or building society on the High street and set up a personal loan for that small amount in 30 mins.
Seems Van wanted money without the burden of repayments.
Maybe Radio Collective in NZ is giving a ‘filtered’ picture of Aust angst….. callers to the talk back heavies like Jones, Hadley, Laws agree with Howard.
It’s hard to be a dribbling Lefty when the world doesn’t give a shit.
November 28th, 2005 at 8:07 pm
Ever notice how only right wingers, neo-cons and conservatives have THINK tanks? What do left wingers have
According to Sir Humphreys we control the global media, all scientific research and the education system from pre-school to university level.
Not too shabby . . .
Vote:November 28th, 2005 at 9:11 pm
You people are so ego oriented that you can no longer make an argument that impresses an old tart like me.I get bored with the same old pap.
Vote:Give me some rigour.
November 28th, 2005 at 11:04 pm
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/sundaystartimes/0,2106,3493133a6443,00.html
Vote:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1894002,00.html
Looks like the hanging may not happen as scheduled if the story above is true. However i suspect it wil just be a postponement rather than Nguyen not being hanged at all
November 28th, 2005 at 11:29 pm
Wow, 14 (+/-10). So we could take New Zealand’s homicide rate to zero with somewhere between 4 and 20 executions a year? Oh, wait, no, that’s moronic.
But assuming it isn’t, Sean, would it matter if we executed murderers, or would any tinny dealer do? People who do 51km/h in a 50k zone (I know this possibility will get DPF’s regulars worried).
Dodgy statistics falsely applied. Ah, the political blogosphere…
Vote:November 30th, 2005 at 10:21 pm
It would depend on lots of other factors but in theory if you killed a bunch of murderers and compared that to getting them wander randomly you would save lives – if you chopped their legs off instead (or gave excessive electro-shock therapy or whatever) you would achieve the same aim and save one extra life.
Vote: