Who said this?
January 30th, 2006 at 9:10 am by David FarrarThe national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality. Today Christians stand at the head of our country. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press — in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past years
No cheating with Google. Guesses below.
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January 30th, 2006 at 9:25 am
Sounds like something Bill English would say. Or maybe some other past National leader. Or maybe Don Brash has asked Brian Tamaki and the Exclusive Brethren to start drafting his speeches?
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 9:28 am
i’m guessing Brian Tamaki because national doesn’t have a capital N
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 9:28 am
I guessed right…but since I googled to check I won’t post the answer. An easy one, for cynics, but a dangerous question for a national party activist to ask. It sounds like the sanctimonious rubbish national spouts at election time.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 9:31 am
I would definitely not say someone from New Zealand. Not at all.
First guess would be Bush – but again don’t think so.
Might have to google to find out.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 9:32 am
i just found it on Google – does his first name actually end in ph or was it a typo?
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 9:34 am
“sounds like something Bill English would say” – yeah right, burning literature etc… “sounds like the sanctimonious rubbish national spouts at election time” – you dumbass
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 9:36 am
Adolf Hitler.
Next.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 9:37 am
I guessed right too, but I’ll keep my answer quiet so more of you can guess.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 9:40 am
We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press –
Must be from earlier in the last century..the word “literature” would be unlikely to be used in that context in a public speech in modern times.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 9:46 am
Those who guessed a former ‘Christian Socialist’ were way off!
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 9:56 am
The question is not who said it but is the quote real or is it a fabrication to demonize current political figures.
The invention of quotes for this purpose by the radical left is a technique with a long pedigree.
I don’t know if the quote is real or not but my sketicizm radar on this is at high alert.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 10:05 am
I did cheat and was surprised that it was Adolf -
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 10:16 am
The invention of quotes for this purpose by the radical left is a technique with a long pedigree. I don’t know if the quote is real or not but my sketicizm radar on this is at high alert.
And your tinfoil hat is on sideways …
http://www.somareview.com/mostfamouschristian.cfm
Cheers,
Vote:RB
January 30th, 2006 at 10:24 am
But seriously, I am a little surprised. I wasn’t aware that Hitler had so consistently tried to leverage the Christian angle.
He certainly was *not* an atheist, though. Nazism is shot through with all sorts of religious elements and symbols. If anything, it was an example of new age mysticism gone bad. The claim that Jung backed Hitler was a bum rap, but the Nazis were certainly exploring the same mythical territory.
Cheers,
Vote:RB
January 30th, 2006 at 10:35 am
I did a school report which covered Hitler’s Christianity a few years ago. I am constantly depressed by the way his beliefs are covered up or denied by Christians even today.
Do you know the Catholic church still hasn’t excommunicated him?
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 10:48 am
Hitlers Christianity – like almost all of this other beliefs – waxed and waned depending on who he was talking to and what books he’d been reading. While he made a lot of public endorsements of Christianity he’s also on record as making many Nietzsche-esque statements like:
National Socialism and religion cannot exist together…. The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity…. Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things.
I don’t think he was particularly interested in the pagan, occult aspects of Nazism either – unlike Himmler, who was obsessed with such nonsense, I imagine Hitler would have found it all extremely silly.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 10:48 am
And your tinfoil hat is on sideways …
Since when was being skeptical equivalent to being irrationally paranoid?
May I gently remind you of John Manukia’s ‘interview’ with Anthony Solomona as a recent example of such fabrication.
As for the technique demonization I suggest you read the works of Saul Alinsky for how to go about it.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 10:49 am
I was pretty sure it was Adolf, the language is very dated for one thing, not something that anyone would use today.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 10:53 am
If you want to see what happened to Christians who proved to be real Christians in Germany, Dietrich Bonhoeffer is a good example http://www.crossroad.to/Persecution/Bonhoffer.html
Vote:Here is a quote for those who don’t bother to read the article. “Both modern liberal theology and secular totalitarianism hold pretty much in common that the message of the Bible has to be adapted more or less, to the requirements of a secular world. No wonder, therefore, that the process of debasing Christianity as by liberal theology led, in the long run, to a complete perversion and falsification of the essence of Christianity teaching by National Socialism.”
January 30th, 2006 at 11:12 am
Eleanor:
Um, talk about turning tinfoil into a couture iten.
1) Adolf Hitler is dead.
2) Unless my reading of canon law is severely defective, it’s pretty difficult to declare anathema on the dead.
So, what you really trying to say?
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 11:28 am
I wasn’t aware that people couldn’t be excommunicated after they’d died. That may or may not be true, I’ve never cared to study Catholicsm in that much detail.
However, the church never excommunicated Hitler while he was still alive, and you’d think after his death excommunication would represent a form of disownment: ie the Catholic church has never formally tried to disown Hitler.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 11:43 am
If you investigate this subject further, it is clear that Hitler made alot of pro-Christian statements before coming to power and in the first couple of years of the Nazi regime whilst consolidating power, this was obviously done so as not to alienate his supporters. After that there are many quotes showing his true feelings expressing his anti-christianity.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 11:45 am
If you investigate this subject further, it is clear that Hitler made alot of pro-Christian statements before coming to power and in the first couple of years of the Nazi regime whilst consolidating power, this was obviously done so as not to alienate his supporters. After that there are many quotes showing his true feelings expressing his anti-christianity.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 12:23 pm
Hitler was smart. He knew not to alienate support wherever it might come from. His time in Vienna was critical in adopting the beliefs opined above.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 12:24 pm
Don’t know why anyone would be suprised this is Hitler, how do they think such a tyrant beame so popular? Christianity was integral to traditional European culture at the time, and Hitler made sure he framed his politics in Christian terms. Whether or not he actually considered himself Christian is another matter. Our understanding of his misdeeds would lend us to believe he couldn’t have; that he merely used religion as political leverage, and like Constatine and President Bush remains something of a Christain anomaly.
I think RB is closest to the truth with his comment;
“If anything, it [Hitler/Nazis] was an example of new age mysticism gone bad.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 12:36 pm
Told you he was really a good bloke.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 12:41 pm
Our understanding of his misdeeds would lend us to believe he couldn’t have
This is the kind of attitude I frequently came up against in high school when telling others Hitler was a Catholic.
Just because a person has religious beliefs, doesn’t mean they can’t do terrible things. Think of the inquisition.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 1:24 pm
Hillary Clinton trying to sound like what she thinks appeals to christians?
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 3:26 pm
Eleanor – If you don’t understand the basic christian fundamentals then you should look again in the Bible – have a look at the people Jesus associated with.
Christianity and Catholicism is not like a Rotary where you must be an upstanding member of society to join.
Of course, it’s easy to dismiss the Catholics as the Devil’s puppet, full of boy fondlers and greedy Pontiffs. But is your solution to wipe them off the face of the earth, too?
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 4:03 pm
If a credible politician made the same speech today I would be inclined to vote for him.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
Eleanor, here is a How to get excommunicated link. As the link says, if he’d joining the Presbyterians, that would be grounds for automatic excommunication without the candle dashing ceremony. But it also says that it is used as a punishment, it’s not a disownment ceremony. There is always hope for forgiveness. Maybe if Adolf Hitler had survived WW2, it might have been done. Or maybe not.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 6:28 pm
Killing 6 million Jews is A-OK, but god forbid, if you join the presbytarians…
This actually reminds me of something I read years ago. Frustratingly, I haven’t got the source, but it was the story of how Goebbels (or similar) got married to a Protestant woman and was promptly excommunicated. Hitler, who only attended the ceremony, wasn’t.
Michael the right wing one-
Christianity and Catholicism is not like a Rotary where you must be an upstanding member of society to join.
That is exactly the point I was trying to make before. Just because he did such terrible things, doesn’t mean you can say ‘he wasn’t a Christian’. As you say he probably wasn’t one in the sense that the Virgin Mary and St Peter were, but he was a member of the body called the Christian church, and denial of that would be unwise.
Of course, it’s easy to dismiss the Catholics as the Devil’s puppet, full of boy fondlers and greedy Pontiffs.
I at no point expressed the view that Catholics are any of those things, nor that they should be wiped off the planet. Institutionalised child abuse has occured in many religions, and to spout stuff about Catholics being ‘kiddie fiddlers’ is puerile. I am an atheist personally but know a very large number of Catholics and do not seek to bash this particular form of Christianity, only to suggest that it take more accountability about issues relating to Hitler and the Holocaust.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 7:45 pm
Sorry team, but what was the point of this particular post? I’m sure that I’m missing something here……
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 8:43 pm
what’s that you say AJ? “if anything, [A.J.Chesswas] is an example of new age mysticism gone bad”
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 8:47 pm
Eleanor, you really have a thing about Hitler and the Catholic Church, don’t you? And it turns out you are not the only one, there are heaps of people very exercised about all this. Who knew? Certainly not me, who’s parent’s country Hitler invaded. But to help you out here on the excommunication issue, I found this:
The allegation is sometimes made that the Catholic Church never excommunicated Hitler from membership. It is unknown whether Hitler was formally excommunicated or not, but it doesn’t matter. Hitler was already excommunicated ipso facto under the canon law of the Catholic Church for his numerous sinful crimes. He could only have returned to the Catholic faith, even assuming that he would ever have wanted to, by having his excommunication removed by the Pope himself. The lifting of such excommunication is reserved to the Pope, latae sententiae.
Furthermore, the conference of German bishops excommunicated all Nazis in 1930, and in the 1932 elections forbade Catholics to vote for a Nazi. By being the leader of the Nazi party, Hitler had already put himself outside of the Church.
Finally, it should be noted that the whole purpose of excommunication is to help the sinner recognize the enormity of his sins, so he will seek forgiveness. As St. Paul wrote: “If any one refuses to obey our word by this letter, note that man, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. Do not look on him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.” (2 Thes 3:14-15). Someone like Hitler, who did not believe in the truth of Christianity, would simply shrug it off.
From Was Hitler a Catholic
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 10:45 pm
Eleanor, you really have a thing about Hitler and the Catholic Church, don’t you?
As I mentioned earlier I did a school project relating to this subject years ago, and I wasn’t able to find any resolution to these issues then either.
Thanks for the info about Catholicsm/Hitler, I’ve never heard that perspective before. It still doesn’t quite seem to work, but I’ll probably follow that up.
Vote:January 30th, 2006 at 11:07 pm
Actually, Stan, apparently Hitler’s personal spirituality was closer to the occult than to Christianity, and I understand he had links to the Masonic Lodge. I know very little about new age mysticism, but I do know we’re not living in the age of aquarius.
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 12:41 am
Tsk Tsk AJ
Do you believe everything you read in ‘The Truth’ too.
That ‘links to the occult and masonry’ garbage was derived from evidence presented to the Nuremberg court at the end of the war. It was immediately deemed unreliable. Among its failings were several lengthy quotes clearly ripped from other authors and fobbed off as der F
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 12:42 am
Tsk Tsk AJ
Do you believe everything you read in ‘The Truth’ too.
That ‘links to the occult and masonry’ garbage was derived from evidence presented to the Nuremberg court at the end of the war. It was immediately deemed unreliable. Among its failings were several lengthy quotes clearly ripped from other authors and fobbed off as der F
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 8:06 am
Elenoar – While you follow that up, check out Father Maximillan Koble – there is an example of Christian Love ands Sacrifice that the Catholic Church upholds from the Nazi era.
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 8:33 am
But whatever you do, don’t look up the name of Archbishop Stepinac.
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 9:11 am
Hitler was an arch opportunist. Ideologically, he wasn
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 9:23 am
Hitler certainly courted the clergy when he needed them. But the Confessing Lutherans and Catholic clergy who he put in concentration campe might disagree as to his Christian credentials. “German Christianity” has very little to do with orthodox Christianity in any form, as Bonhoeffer and Cardinal von Galen, among others, could tell you.
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 11:37 am
Sad, really. Sad indeed.
Surely, if you have any beliefs similar to those of the Catholic Church, the Adolf is in fact getting the desserts he deserves.
If you do not follow the beliefs of the Catholic Church, or any of its cousins, then Adolph could be;
- reincarnated eternally as an avian flu virus
Vote:- buried under a mountain for five thousand years
- no longer existing in any form
January 31st, 2006 at 12:03 pm
I wish people who claim that Hitler was not a Christian would cite tangible evidence for their beliefs. I could cite mountains of data showing that he was a Christian. (The Nazi party never removed the section on positive Christianity form their platform? Why did Hitler attempt to establish a church? Why did the Nazis destroy synagogues, but not Churches? etc, etc.) but I wont.
Because Hitler’s Christianity doesn’t matter.
What matters is that in the most Christianised nation in the world at the time, a spiteful little bastard encouraged good upstanding Christians to hate their fellow human beings, allowing for an incomprehensible human tragedy. If Hitler wasn’t Christian, it doesn’t say much about Christianity if he can hoodwink his entire population and the Pope into believing that he was Catholic. Also, if Christianity was so fantastic, surely all those good German Christians would have done something about Hitler’s machinations. But it wasn’t. And they didn’t.
On the contrary, believing in a ghost in the clouds who tells you not to question fundamental things (like his existence) puts you in the perfect frame of mind to play follow the leader, wherever it may take you. All your leader has to do is label the enemy ‘evil’.
C
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 12:34 pm
“Why did Hitler attempt to establish a church?”
Power. He was trying to take power from the vatican.
“Why did the Nazis destroy synagogues, but not Churches?”
I think Hitler may have had a thing for jews.
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 12:40 pm
For once I’m on dim’s side. For Hitler to have been a Christian in the real sense he would have needed to have made public confession of his faith in Jesus Christ. That is the only test. I haven’t seen any evidence of his doing so but that’s not to say he didn’t.
I doubt very much Hitler held to Christian beliefs – his actions would indicate not. Is John Kerry a Christian? I doubt it but you’ll see him preachng from a pulpit most Sundays during an election campaign. I’ve never heard Kerry express any commitment to Christianity (nor anything else, for that matter.)
Finally, I’m always amused to see how much atheists claim to know about us Christians and how much time and effort they put into schooling themselves up on the subject. The real addicts try and understand Presbyterians.
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 12:41 pm
I suggest you have a look at what Pope Pius XII actually did…or maybe have a look at what numerous Jews and others said about him. I’m not a Catholic, but it’s nonsense to think he didn’t stand up to Hitler or that somehow he and the Catholic church condoned what Hitler was doing.
He may have not been as vocal as some would like, but he is estimated to have helped 860,000 Jews escape Nazi territory. The Nazi’s hated him – his Christmas broadcast of 1942 really pissed them off, and Hitler wanted to have him kidnapped.
It seems to me that the current attacks on him are another exercise in historical revisionism…
Here’s some quotes from people around at the time and a couple of historians:
“The people of Israel will never forget what His Holiness and his illustrious delegates, inspired by the eternal principles of religion, which form the very foundation of true civilization, are doing for our unfortunate brothers and sisters in the most tragic hour of our history, which is living proof of Divine Providence in this world.”
* Rabbi Isaac Herzog, chief rabbi of the British Mandate of Palestine, March 1945.
“No Pope in history has been thanked more heartily by Jews. Upon his death in 1958, several suggested in open letters that a Pope Pius XII forest of 860,000 trees be planted on the hills of Judea in order to fittingly honor the memory of the late Pontiff because the Catholic Church under the pontificate of Pius XII was instrumental in saving the lives of as many as 860,000 Jews from certain death at Nazi hands.”
* Pinchas E. Lapide, Three Popes and the Jews (1967).
“Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty.” Statement made in 1946 as quoted in Three Popes and the Jews by Pinchas E. Lapide (New York: Hawthorn, 1967), p. 251.
Albert Einstein
* “During the Nazi occupation of Rome, three thousand Jews found refuge at one time at the pope
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 12:48 pm
I suggest you have a look at what Pope Pius XII actually did…or maybe have a look at what numerous Jews and others said about him. I’m not a Catholic, but it’s nonsense to think he didn’t stand up to Hitler or that somehow he and the Catholic church condoned what Hitler was doing.
He may have not been as vocal as some would like, but he is estimated to have helped 860,000 Jews escape Nazi territory. The Nazi’s hated him – his Christmas broadcast of 1942 really pissed them off, and Hitler wanted to have him kidnapped.
It seems to me that the current attacks on him are another exercise in historical revisionism…
Here’s some quotes from people around at the time and a couple of historians:
“The people of Israel will never forget what His Holiness and his illustrious delegates, inspired by the eternal principles of religion, which form the very foundation of true civilization, are doing for our unfortunate brothers and sisters in the most tragic hour of our history, which is living proof of Divine Providence in this world.”
* Rabbi Isaac Herzog, chief rabbi of the British Mandate of Palestine, March 1945.
“No Pope in history has been thanked more heartily by Jews. Upon his death in 1958, several suggested in open letters that a Pope Pius XII forest of 860,000 trees be planted on the hills of Judea in order to fittingly honor the memory of the late Pontiff because the Catholic Church under the pontificate of Pius XII was instrumental in saving the lives of as many as 860,000 Jews from certain death at Nazi hands.”
* Pinchas E. Lapide, Three Popes and the Jews (1967).
“Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty.” Statement made in 1946 as quoted in Three Popes and the Jews by Pinchas E. Lapide (New York: Hawthorn, 1967), p. 251.
Albert Einstein
* “During the Nazi occupation of Rome, three thousand Jews found refuge at one time at the pope
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 12:51 pm
Sorry for the dupe – I got a server error the first time, but must have still gone through.
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 1:48 pm
A phone all to a learned and venerable Churchman might cast some light. He says “The Church in Germany of old and modern West Germany was and is significantly funded by the state, (I was unaware of that) thus there was always a much closer relationship between Church and State than we (or the US) eould consider normal or acceptable. Undoubtedly the Church got in behind Hitler and supported him in the early days but there is not much evidence to support the notion that Hitler personally ever was a Christian in any other sense than the political recognition a large Christian based block of voters. It’s hard to recall any record of his belonging to a congregation or even attending any services of worship”
I’d suggest the statement in DPF’s post seems to pretty much fit that analysis.
I’d add that it’s not surprisiong the Church got behind him early in the piece if he was seen to be pulling the people out of their post WW1 misery and poverty. Much like Hamas today in Gazza which has the support of the Clark Labour Gummint.
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 2:27 pm
Evidence, adolf?
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 2:33 pm
I just realised…adolf is emulating his namesake with the “big lie”!
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 3:04 pm
johnie, my name isn’t Clark. Why do you want evidence? Of course, I should have realised you’re not old enough to remember events which took place two years ago. You mean you’ve not met Hamas Helen and Gazza Goff??
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 3:16 pm
No evidence, so obfuscate…all part of the “big lie” technique. No wonder you call yourself adolf.
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 3:35 pm
johnie, why don’t you go find the counter-evidence? Shouldn’t be difficult for someone with your intellectual prowess. No, wait, you never actually add anything to these conversations apart from snide remarks. Must have you confused with someone else.
Now, I’ll just wait for you to say something really original, like no one can trust anything I say because I’m from Sir Humphrey’s.
Pre-empted. And mistaken for someone else. Darn it.
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 3:46 pm
Counter evidence for what? Adolf’s snide remark? I suppose the next stage of the big lie is to get your stooges to attack..eh?
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 4:04 pm
Lucyana, nobody can trust anything you say. But not because you’re from the land of comedy. More likely because of your regular delusional rampages about international secret cabals of evil commies.
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 4:14 pm
there is not much evidence to support the notion that Hitler personally ever was a Christian in any other sense than the political recognition a large Christian based block of voters.
Well . . . he was raised a Catholic, and would have attended Mass every Sunday. Presumably he was part of the Linz congregation, he attended a religious school and said in later life that as a child he wanted to become a priest. And of course he would have been baptised. He considered himself a Catholic well into later life, making comments to his Generals like: I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.
The Church didn’t really support him in the early days – there was a large Catholic Party in Weimar Germany and the Church threw their support behind that. (The Nazis main backers were banks and heavy industry.) It wasn’t until he was in power that the Church leadership and the Nazis became friends.
Like I said earlier, I think Hitlers beliefs jumped around a lot, but to claim he was ‘never a Christian’ is false.
And I’d also like to see some evidence that Clark and Labour ‘support Hamas’.
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 4:14 pm
And dot just cabals of evil commies, either, but evil commie-nazis.
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 6:37 pm
*Again*
Hitler’s Christianity doesn’t matter that much.
What matters is that in the most Christianised nation in the world at the time, a spiteful little bastard encouraged good upstanding Christians to hate their fellow human beings, allowing for an incomprehensible human tragedy. If Hitler wasn’t Christian, it doesn’t say much about Christianity if he can hoodwink his entire population and the Pope into believing that he was Catholic. Also, if Christianity was so fantastic, surely all those good German Christians would have done something about Hitler’s machinations. But it wasn’t. And they didn’t.
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 6:59 pm
I wonder what modern parallels there are to this?
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 7:18 pm
Had some IT problems earlier and typed this damned comment three times. Oh well.
johnie, I confess I got it all wrong. It was the other gang of cut throats Clark and Goff supported. Fatah. Their boss, Arafat, kept Hamas off to one side, like a mistress so that he could publicly deny wrong doing when Hamas launched suicide bomb attacks at his behest. While your friend Filk Off was having his photo taken holding hand with the old aids ridden murderer, Hamas was congratulating and thanking Clark for (a) turning a blind eye to the Arabic pass port factory discovered in New Zealand and (b) creating a diplomatic incident out of a relatively minor infraction by a couple of Israelis. But the real proof of the pudding is in the eating and it is clear that Arabic terrorists the world over, rejoice in the support they have been given by Clark. Go get a tape of a RLW doco about six months ago in which a young Kiwi cycled through the Middle East. He disregarded advice about dangerous regions and actually boasted about the fact that every time he was stopped by AK47 weilding gentlemen he was waved on as soon as he said “I’m a New Zealander” because the terrorists who has stopped him assured him that ‘The New Zealand Government supports us!”
Clark has learnt well from her friend Arafat who gaves assurances in english and then incited violence in Arabic. She can say what she likes but the fact is she has given support and comfort to the terrorists.
dim. I’m obliged to you for your extensive knowledge of Hitler and his early life. Your knowledge is the sort I would expect a wild eyed Beatle fan to have of John Lennon. Unfortunately you appear to have not comprehended my comments. I know you have difficulty with the written word but please go back and read what I said. I did not declare that “Hitler was not a Christian.” However I suggest you will need more than ‘presumably’ and ‘he would have been baptised’ to persuade anyone other than a nutter that Hitler had any commitment to Christian faith, beliefs and principles. Where is the baptismal certificate? In any case, infant baptism a Christian does not make but I would not expect you to understand that. Plenty of kids wanted to be priests or parsons but went no further. (Plenty of kids wanted to be firemen and finished up being Labour Party policy wonks.) Of course he would spout off about his alleged catholicism if he were seeking to influence a group of generals who themselves were Christians. The man was a pathologocal liar. He lied to Chamberlain, to Stalin, to Baldwin, to all the other dolts who heard what they wanted to hear. Was he a committed Christian? I don’t know but I very much doubt it.
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 7:28 pm
Is that what you class as evidence? That explains a lot!
Vote:January 31st, 2006 at 7:48 pm
I have it on good authority that the Catholics have also failed to excommunicate Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. And Idi Amin.
Vote:February 1st, 2006 at 4:53 pm
One thing seems clear – Hitler was a very complex personality, both philosophically and politically. Interesting enough I discovered a whole new perspective on Hitler that makes a lot of sense of these issues;
http://www.angelfire.com/trek/spymaster/auth.htm
Vote:February 1st, 2006 at 4:58 pm
One thing seems certain, Hitler was a very complex person, both philosophically and politically. Those who are interested in a slightly more radical view of the man, which has the potential to make a lot of sense of these compelexities, should consider the following link;
http://www.angelfire.com/trek/spymaster/auth.htm
Vote:February 3rd, 2006 at 2:11 pm
>If a credible politician made the same speech
>today I would be inclined to vote for him.
Strangely, so would I Baxter.
I think this quote sums up nicely what I am currently thinking based on all the questions you guys are asking:
Vote: