Southpark complaints rejected

June 29th, 2006 at 3:53 pm by David Farrar

Yay. Just read (not online yet) that the BSA has rejected all the complaints against the “Bloody Mary” episode of Southpark.

“The BSA acknowledged the degree of offence taken from this episode, noting that the broadcaster later undertook not to screen the episode again. But the Authority held that the broadcast of the overtly satirical programme, while clearly distasteful to the complainants, was protected by the Bill Of Rights Act 1990.”

They get it exactly right when they say:

Were the Authority to uphold the complaint, this would amount to a statement that broadcasters who offer satire, humour and drama _ may not offend against the religious convictions of others_That, in the view of the Authority, would be an unreasonable limitation of a broadcaster’s right to free speech, which includes the right to satirise religious issues.

It would have been an awful precedent if they had upheld the complaints. I’m very pleased with the BSA for this.

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51 Responses to “Southpark complaints rejected”

  1. fraser () says:

    good to hear.

    Im pleased with the decision for 3 main reasons.

    1, Sth park takes the piss out of EVERYONE, including animators.

    2, The episode was more about our own human stupidity in placing power in inanimate objects.

    3, Theres that magic button called.. oh what is it again… oh thats right the “off” button.

    After all its just entertainment (and not very high brow entertainment at that) and if people dont like it theres plenty of other things they can watch/do.

    And surely there are much bigger and more damaging issues that we, religious and atheist, need to be confronting together?

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  2. stef () says:

    Thank bloody god.. I love South Park.

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  3. Peter Grooby () says:

    Speaking of free speech and Southpark..
    Surprised you never blogged on the hysteria and one sided media portrail of the “Hadji Girl” song, a couple of weeks ago..

    Bloody Hilarious, got it installed on my iPod now…

    Video/sound available at the link below (plus a bunch of other places)
    http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=21040_Mainstream_Media_Disgrace_of_the_Month-_Hadji_Girl&only

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  4. Mike () says:

    Good decision, now when are they going to get rid of the government censorship department and waste of taxpayer money that is the BSA.

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  5. Imam Mospamodd () says:

    I issue fatwas of death by the over cleansing of genitalia with the prescribed odd number of stones on you all! Maryam (pickles be not upon her) as we call her in Islam is the only woman mentioned by name in our holy koran! So…… fatwa fatwa fatwa! And make sure you only use an odd number of stones for your important ablutions because that is what the great Prophet (pbuh) ordained.

    And fatwa to you too Trey Parker! How dare you make people laugh.

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  6. Ed Snack () says:

    Southpark, who take the piss out of everything….which is why they made that episode featuring Mohammed….oh, wait…

    Southpark, brave as…yeah, right.

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  7. mark () says:

    they have made episodes with mohammed in them. 2 in fact. Iv seen them both, wait till season 10 comes out :)

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  8. dave () says:

    While I applaud this decision, especially the citing of the Bill of Rights Act in its support, the real test of the BSA will be when it inevitably hears a complaint against satirical portrayal of Islam.

    I don’t believe for a moment that the BSA will dismiss that complaint. It will excoriate the broadcaster that shows it, award thousands in costs and stop it screening ads for three days.

    I would delight in being proved wrong, but I am not holding my breath.

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  9. Paulinem () says:

    Disgusting decision – it shows this organisation needs a urgent review of how it operates amd makes desisions -it mocks everything our predecesors fought and died for.

    Democracy and freedoms means the right for NZers to enjoy with respect their deeply beleifs without fear of illformed prejudicial mockery and abuse from un-informed imbiclies like David and his friends.

    The decison shows you what a sick society we have come – I dear say it wont be long before in NZ a Adolf Hitler clone will suggest those who hold to spiritual beleifs should be placed away in a secure location. And then as time goes by Adolf and his friends will suggest as we know next they should be killed.

    Oh how our predecesors must turm in their graves.

    Its time the BSA was seriously reviewed in its decisons

    Its time the Bill of Rights was looked at in the injustices it incourages to our society.

    I hope the complaints seek a urgent appeal on the decision -maybe then we can look with hope on our future society

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  10. Rocket Boy () says:

    Paulinem – no one has an issue with people’s religious beliefs. However people have a problem when those beliefs are forced on others.

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  11. Imam Mospamodd () says:

    Paulinem you are so right. Lets also burn some comic books, playboy magazines of course, the Truth Newslessrag must go and in fact any print or media source that shows women without the Prophet’s (pbuh) required burqa.

    Any books by evil lefties – say Messrs. Karl and Marx for example should be removed from libraries and perhaps also books by avaricious and greedy righties like Ayn Rand should be burned as well.

    Oh and drugs! There shall be burnings of anything written by Tom Robbins or Irving Welsh. My my the lifestyles they depict…evil!

    And the Bill of Rights! You say “Its time the Bill of Rights was looked at in the injustices it encourages to our society.” I am so with you on this observation. But then after we’ve got our changes through Paulinem we will have to rename the Act. Maybe we should call it the Bill of (very few) Rights or maybe even the Bill of (very many) Restrictions.

    Peace be upon you Paulinem.

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  12. Craig Ranapia () says:

    Paulinem:

    OK, I’m getting better at not feeding trolls but the utter crap you’re spouting cannot be allowed to pass unchallenged. And being a person of faith, I have to say the only “illformed” nonsense being spouted on this thread is from you.

    Are you aware that idolatory – which this episode of South Park mocked with well-aimed ferocity – is considered profoundly sinful in Christianity, Islam and Judaisim? As I’ve said before, I find it rather ironic that Messer Parker and Stone appear to understand mainstream Christian doctrine better than some of the ‘religious’ folks out there.

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  13. gd () says:

    Being the very tolerant and paitent person that I am I think that everyhing and everyone who doesnt agree with me should be either banned or beheaded
    So there

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  14. mikey bill () says:

    Hail Mary, full of grace
    Slipped on the floor,
    Fell flat on her face

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  15. Lucyna () says:

    Craig,

    From the Catholic Catechiism on Vatican website

    2130 Nevertheless, already in the Old Testament, God ordained or permitted the making of images that pointed symbolically toward salvation by the incarnate Word: so it was with the bronze serpent, the ark of the covenant, and the cherubim.69

    2131 Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons – of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new “economy” of images.

    2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, “the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype,” and “whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it.”70 The honor paid to sacred images is a “respectful veneration,” not the adoration due to God alone:

    Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.71

    So, veneration of certain images (such as Mary) is permitted because “whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it.”

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  16. John () says:

    I don’t have a problem with this decision, provided the BSA are consistent. And they aren’t. The complaint of the Hare Krishna about the Meat Board ad leaps to mind, which, if I remember, was upheld. It appears that some religious sensitivities are more equal than others.

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  17. Julian () says:

    This decision from the BSA is, unfortuantely, as expected. The BSA has no back bone at all, despite the fact that the episode (viewed directly or not) was an insult to a lot of people’s faith.

    Not only that, 35 complaints were laid, the most in the entire history of the BSA. Are we a country of week indiviuduals, or do we have principles? You can argue that freedom of speech, blah blah blah, but I’m with the Catholics on this one-there is a line in the sand.
    The BSA is utterly prejudice in rejecting anti-women, anti-maori advertisements/programming on TV, but when they recieve 35! complaints from the Catholics, they rule that its not offensive (but the toyota ad is!). Isn’t this prejudice against the christians?

    If the BSA cannot have the decency to support religious freedom or even basic social morality, then what point is there in having a values-orientated watchdog which dictates its own agenda. The BSA is a waste of money, and time and breath-quite like south park.

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  18. Julian () says:

    This decision from the BSA is, unfortuantely, as expected. The BSA has no back bone at all, despite the fact that the episode (viewed directly or not) was an insult to a lot of people’s faith.

    Not only that, 35 complaints were laid, the most in the entire history of the BSA. Are we a country of week indiviuduals, or do we have principles? You can argue that freedom of speech, blah blah blah, but I’m with the Catholics on this one-there is a line in the sand.
    The BSA is utterly prejudice in rejecting anti-women, anti-maori advertisements/programming on TV, but when they recieve 35! complaints from the Catholics, they rule that its not offensive (but the toyota ad is!). Isn’t this prejudice against the christians?

    If the BSA cannot have the decency to support religious freedom or even basic social morality, then what point is there in having a values-orientated watchdog which dictates its own agenda. The BSA is a waste of money, and time and breath-quite like south park.

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  19. Whitebread () says:

    As a practicing Catholic I couldn’t be bothered switching on to watch this episode. It was almost certainly setting out to offend rather than be funny. It’s significant that the BSA received the largest number of complaints about this that they’ve ever received over a single issue. I’m not especially prudish and have frequently watched Southpark which can be funny. It would surely have been possible to poke fun at some of the traditions of the Catholic church without stooping to this.

    There are a couple of other things to note over this:-
    1) When Southpark decided to poke fun at Scientology in one episode, the actor who plays Chef and is himself a Scientologist had a major sense of humour failure and spat the dummy. He’s been conspicously and hypocritcally silent on the Catholic episode.
    2) The other major occurrence of hypocrisy in connection with all this is of course the refusal of large sections of the NZ news media to publish the Mohammed cartoons earlier this year for fear of offending our Islamofascist friends. Remember, this has ocurred in a country where the government is supporting state secularism (the PM refuses to say grace at state banquets) while funding two Muslim prayer rooms in a Christchurch public school.

    Let’s not kid ourselves – we bend over backwards to avoid offending all sorts of other faiths while ridiculing and denigrating the Judeo-Christian heritage that has nutured the open and tolerant societies of the West.

    It seems incredible to me that a media watchdog that can get all het up over the relatively harmless and humorous content of the “bugger” ads can reach a decision like this over a program designed to offend adherents to the world’s largest Christian faith.

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  20. Graeme Edgeler () says:

    John – complaints about advertising (incl. broadcast advertising) are within the jurisdiction of the Advertising Standards Authority, not the Broadcasting Standards Authority.

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  21. Bearhunter () says:

    What I object to is the religious morons who stand in their pulpits every week ranting on about my lifestyle, decrying it as sinful and abhorrent, and telling me I will burn in the eternal sea of damnation who then turn around and demand that I am nothing but respectful of their beliefs. My response would be to direct them to the answer given in the celebrated case Arkle vs Pressdram…

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  22. baxter () says:

    Perhaps N.Z. on air will now fund a programme showing Helen Clarke or the Chief Justice menstruating, surely that would now be even more satirical in light of the decision….Absolute degenerative crap.

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  23. Paulinem () says:

    I can see we have alot of Adolf clones on this list how sad how very very sad –

    It is intersting the humanist with forcefull ageesion denounce any one of spiritual beliefs expressing their religous beliefs publicly -BUT have no problem forcing their beliefs on all and sunder -and no problem publicly mocking anyone who is different.

    Respect and tolernce is a two way camp -the joy of a good democray is all beleifs are respected and tolerated with our fear -not to do so is to go down the camp of Nazi Germanys type of democracy

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  24. Imam Mospamodd () says:

    Paulinem…you must be careful about who you are disrespectful about! As an Imam I could fatwa you and that would bugger every nice Christian thought you might have.

    Now, Adolph didn’t like Jews. We Muslims don’t like them much either. But you must know the truth Paulinem which comes only from Allah, certainly the most beneficent, the most forgiving. And the truth you need to know Paulinem is that your Catholic leader during the Second World War, Pope Pius X11, was a Nazi’s best mate… especially from 1945 onwards.

    Without the ‘Pope Pius railway’ dozens of ranking Nazis would not have made it to comfortable exile in Argentina and other South American locales. Those nasty Jews of course didn’t like the Vatican’s accepting approach to genocide and with much grief and expense managed to find a few of Pope Pius’s mates in their filthy holes – Adolph Eichmann for example.

    Now Paulinem, your lack of knowledge about your own wonderful church is truly disturbing. Catholicism and Naziism have gone hand in hand and yet you use the name ‘Adolph’ as some kind of panacea-like statement to criticize freedom of speech.

    Paulinem… you must convert to Islam now! It is the only way to effectively promote your stupid pride based narrow minded crap.

    Kisses fatwas and love…

    The IMAM

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  25. Lucyna () says:

    Imam Mospamodd (with the email name “andrewbrown”,
    you have been taken in by anti-Catholic propoganda with regard to Pope Pius XII. There are a number of books out that debunk the myth – The Myth of Hitler’s Pope: How Pope Pius XII Rescued Jews from the Nazis by Rabbi David G. Dalin might be right up your alley.

    If you are taking on the persona of an Islamist – good imitation. Their history is as atrocious as yours.

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  26. Danyl Mclauchlan () says:

    The decison shows you what a sick society we have come – I dear say it wont be long before in NZ a Adolf Hitler clone will suggest those who hold to spiritual beleifs should be placed away in a secure location. And then as time goes by Adolf and his friends will suggest as we know next they should be killed.

    Thanks for your comments paulinem – now that I’ve had a think about it I’ve seen you’re right- allowing an offensive cartoon to be screened on tv IS kind of like Hitlers seizure of power in Germany. I just never saw the obvious comparison between the BSA upholding our democratic tradition of free speech and the Enabling Act, Night of Long Knives, Kristilnact and the mind-numbing nightmares of the Holocaust before, but you’ve really nailed it. Great analogy.

    And how about that ‘Sexbus’ movie they want to show at the film festival? I think we all agree that if Bill Hastings allows it to be screened it will be a worse crime than Stalins liquidation of the Kulaks!

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  27. andrew () says:

    Adolph Eichmann got to South Africa literally via the Vatican. The Vatican most definitely paid for his travel.

    From memory I believe he mentioned his dealings with cardinals in Rome in his diaries.

    Adolph Hitler burned books. People like Paulinem want to burn (or prevent the display of at least) video-graphic material. What’s the difference Lucyna?

    Your Popes are really a bad bunch. Want some examples Lucyna? How about Rodrigo Borgia? Of course if you know your Catholic history you would more likely know him as Pope Alexander VI. He had a famous daughter called Lucretia. An amazing feat for a man who has taken an oath of celibacy. And all that poisoning… my word!

    My favourite dumb-ass Pope is Pope Urban VIII. He’s the one that dumped on Galileo.

    Want some more examples of horrific Popes Lucyna? I got heaps more if you want to learn.

    And you’re right Mospamodd is my newly taken name. Bit like Mr Mohammed Ali. Please do not use my slave name in the future.

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  28. Imam Mospamodd () says:

    Lucyna… your link is to Amazon!!! Do you want me to buy some stupid Pius (appropriate name!) book? You are right that there are many books disputing the idea that Pius XII loved Nazis. What you fail to mention, Lucyna, is that there are ten times that number of well respected and well researched books that condemn Pius XII for his atrocious behaviour. Smoke and fire Lucyna. Is there any reason at all for the existence of your sadly proffered apologist materials?

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  29. CH () says:

    Julian said: “This decision from the BSA is, unfortuantely, as expected. The BSA has no back bone at all, despite the fact that the episode (viewed directly or not) was an insult to a lot of people’s faith.

    Not only that, 35 complaints were laid, the most in the entire history of the BSA. Are we a country of week indiviuduals, or do we have principles? You can argue that freedom of speech, blah blah blah, but I’m with the Catholics on this one-there is a line in the sand.
    The BSA is utterly prejudice in rejecting anti-women, anti-maori advertisements/programming on TV, but when they recieve 35! complaints from the Catholics, they rule that its not offensive (but the toyota ad is!). Isn’t this prejudice against the christians?”

    The Toyota ads (or any ads for that matter) have nothing to do with the BSA whatsoever.
    Do you realise that the Broadcasting Standards Authority is an entirely separate entity to the Advertising Standards Authority?
    To whinge and bitch about things without knowing who or what regulates them makes you stand out as the fool you clearly are.

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  30. Paulinem () says:

    Imam I would be equaly angry over any ridicule on our TV or any other NZ media of Islam and the moslem culture.

    That is the point I am trying to make -in a good free democracy comes tollerance, respect and understanding -where all can make there point of view regardless of their personal spiritual beleifs or non beliefs ie humanists.

    This is what we as a country USE to be proud of within the NZ culture. Can we now be proud of our culture ?

    It ia Christian beleif that there is only ONE perfect human ie Jesus Christ -so all this anti Catholic re Pope Piaux does nothing to me -you see rergardless of our backgound regardless of our social stance -we ALL have feet of clay and all are capable of good and bad -that is why I am a practising Catholic I need devine help to keep on the strait and narrow of life. I acceapt I am not super human and are capable of loosing the plot occasionaly.

    I am surprised as a Moslem you felt it was okay the South Park eposode which the complaint was against. It deliberatley mocked the Blessed Virgin Mary -someone the Moslem religon holds up with very high regard as they do to her son Jesus.

    Most devote Moslems I know would total disagree with and be horrified with your stance on the South Park eposode.

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  31. Paulinem () says:

    Imam I would be equaly angry over any ridicule on our TV or any other NZ media of Islam and the moslem culture.

    That is the point I am trying to make -in a good free democracy comes tollerance, respect and understanding -where all can make there point of view regardless of their personal spiritual beleifs or non beliefs ie humanists.

    This is what we as a country USE to be proud of within the NZ culture. Can we now be proud of our culture ?

    It ia Christian beleif that there is only ONE perfect human ie Jesus Christ -so all this anti Catholic re Pope Piaux does nothing to me -you see rergardless of our backgound regardless of our social stance -we ALL have feet of clay and all are capable of good and bad -that is why I am a practising Catholic I need devine help to keep on the strait and narrow of life. I acceapt I am not super human and are capable of loosing the plot occasionaly.

    I am surprised as a Moslem you felt it was okay the South Park eposode which the complaint was against. It deliberatley mocked the Blessed Virgin Mary -someone the Moslem religon holds up with very high regard as they do to her son Jesus.

    Most devote Moslems I know would total disagree with and be horrified with your stance on the South Park eposode.

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  32. Paulinem () says:

    I am sorry my last post ws posted twice -its due to the message I was given saying it didnt go through due to security code etc So I repost it -only to find out the same message was sent twice -does anyone else finds this a problem re security code Pauline

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  33. CH () says:

    I think Paulinem you misunderstand what the BSA’s role actually is. A complaint can only be upheld if the broadcaster breached broadcasting standards.

    There are thousands of programmes broadcasted that offend people, so are you saying we should start censoring every single program before airing it?

    Where do you draw the line? Stop broadcasting rugby games incase the commentator makes a disparaging remark about one of the sides?

    It’s clear that your views on this ruling are slanted by your personal religious beliefs. I wonder if you would have been up in arms had it been Judaism or Hinduism that had been the focus of the episode.

    I think not.

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  34. Lucyna () says:

    Yes Imam Mospamodd, my link is to Amazon!!!

    The purpose of providing the link was to prove the book written by a rabbi.

    A rabbi is Jewish.

    The rabbi is a person of the race most wiped out by the Nazis during the Holocaust.

    A Jew would have the most incentive to demonise Pius XII, yet he writes a book in his defence.

    Now why would that be, do you think???

    You can read the reviews to get an idea of how well the book was received; people who don’t like it get to leave reviews as well. It’s up to you to decide whether or not you want to buy the book or just borrow it from a library to read.

    My motto is to know my enemy; I suggest you do the same if you don’t want to look like a fool with you ridiculous accuations.

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  35. Danyl Mclauchlan () says:

    A Jew would have the most incentive to demonise Pius XII, yet he writes a book in his defence. Now why would that be, do you think???

    Because he works at ‘Ave Maria University’ and his salary is paid by the Catholic Church? Because his publishing company is Regnery who will happily print any kind of extreme right-wing drivel that reputable publishers won’t touch?

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  36. Paulinem () says:

    Ch I thought I made it clear in my last posting I am against any ridicule of ANY religon or Spirtitual beiliefs teh cornerstone of our democracy is that we should be free to practice enjoy and grow within our chosen spitiual beleifs.

    Stop trying to portray others in your own bigitory some of us are a bit more open minded and tolerant than you are.

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  37. Craig Ranapia () says:

    Paulinem:

    You’re quite right – and I now suggest that the Roman Catholic Church practice what it preaches and from this day forth stop pronouncing on matters spiritual, moral and political. After all, it’s about time the Church (and Catholics in politics, academia, the media and the arts) acknowledge that their irresponsible exercise of free speech is often greviously offensive to the deeply held beliefs of other sectors of the community.

    And if they won’t be sensitive, then it’s time to really give Pauline et. al. something to play martyr about. A few public executions on the forecourt of Parliament should teach you moaning minnies what real persecution is about.

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  38. CH () says:

    “Stop trying to portray others in your own bigitory some of us are a bit more open minded and tolerant than you are.”

    Well you’ve really hit the nail on the head there :rolls eyes:

    Where did I say that I am against people practising their beliefs? The right to worship is the same as the one which allows us freedom of speech. It’s a two sided coin.

    I guess it’s the default setting for people with a weak argument to start slinging terms like “bigot” dare anyone challenge their views.

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  39. Paulinem () says:

    It’s clear that your views on this ruling are slanted by your personal religious beliefs. I wonder if you would have been up in arms had it been Judaism or Hinduism that had been the focus of the episode.

    I think not.

    Own up to your own prejudices Ch -and also to Craigs in his borish and pathetic rantings

    What you are saying above here Ch or are implying (therefore it is the same) and in your last rantings if people ‘dont acceapt your beliefs’ that they are biggots.

    As I pointed out you were WRONG about my attitude to Hindus etc

    I acceapt your right to beleive what you like I acceapt your right to live by and how you like. This is a cornerstone of our Democracy –

    You in return are expected to acceapt my right to beleive what I like without fear of pathetic uninformed ridicule

    And my right not to approve of your life style especially if it interferes with mine or forced on myself and my right not to be ambused to approve of your beliefs etc.

    This is my right. Okay !!

    I object to the likes of yourself demanding we acceapt your right to ridicule my beleifs and if we dont like it then I have a problem not you –

    This is saying to you its a one way street your way and no other way

    Or in other words you who cannot be questioned if you behave offensive to me or push your beleifs etc on me and my friends

    To you and Criag its open slather no matter who you effect, hurt or insult in the process.

    It not me therefore whos a biggot- but the Adolf huamnist on this list which you and Craig are showing by your rantings to be one of them

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  40. Lucyna () says:

    Well, hi to you too, Danyl.

    So, you are suggesting the Rabbi was bought, that he didn’t really believe what he wrote, he just did it for the money?

    I suppose everyone can see for themselves, now that the Vatican has said it will release all the files.

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  41. Craig Ranapia () says:

    Pauline:

    I really think people who resort as easily to cheap ad hominem as yourself, have very little – if any – credibility to be lecturing me on subject. Ettiquite least of all. But I’m not going to apologise for calling a spade a spade – or in your case, a hypocrite a hypocrite.

    I am still waiting to see you explain what exactly is being ‘forced’ on you or anyone else. Are there commisars forcing you to watch any television programme or film, read any book or newspaper, that offends your religious sensibilities?

    I have also been absolutely supportive of the right of the Catholic Church, it’s hierarchy and members, to fully exercise their civil and political freedoms in a civil society. What I will not accept is any religious denomination being able to dominate the civic square by censoring speech it finds offensive, while asserting those same freedoms without restraint to offend others.

    The irony is that the only person I’ve seen demanding that those rights be ‘a one way street’ is you – at least where YOUR religious and political ideology is concerned. And I don’t think anyone can have it both ways. You’re perfectly free to express your opinion, but when you decide to get personally abusive, call me a Nazi or flat out lie about my views don’t play the victim when you get a reaction.

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  42. Danyl Mclauchlan () says:

    I suppose everyone can see for themselves, now that the Vatican has said it will release all the files.

    Wrong Pope.

    So, you are suggesting the Rabbi was bought, that he didn’t really believe what he wrote, he just did it for the money?

    Are you suggesting that its just a big coincidence that a book exhonerating Pius XII from any wrongdoing regarding the Holocaust happens to have been financed by the Catholic Church?

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  43. Danyl Mclauchlan () says:

    And reading the Amazon review comments – as you advised – sheds furthur light on the good Rabbis possible motives for authoring the book.

    Despite its’ title, this book (wide page margins and large type actually make it a distended pamphlet) is only incidentally about Pope Pius XII. Its’ real purpose is to set Roman Catholics and Muslims at each others throats, and to lead Catholics to support any and all actions taken by the Israeli government against Palestinians living within Israeli-occupied territory. It tries to accomplish this by tarring all Arabs (and by implication, all Muslims) as subhuman beasts.

    Throughout this noisome tract, Arabs–wherever and whenever found–are relentlessly portrayed as the exact equivalent to Nazis and vice-versa. This technique scarcely differs from that of crude anti-Jewish screeds that go from noting that Karl Marx and the Rosenbergs were Jews, to claiming that Jews and Communists are one and the same. Pius is used merely as a foil to a contemporary, the notorious Nazi-sympathizer, Haji Amin al-Hussaini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Considering what a low basis for comparison this is, one hopes that at least some Catholics will take offense at the Pope being dragged alongside such a grotesque figure. Not a trace of original research or primary sources besmirch these pristine pages. Instead, the book deliberately conflates two separate and highly emotive issues which will be untangled here.

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  44. Lucyna () says:

    Danyl,

    Wrong pope, huh? Well, no they do include files to the start of WW2 on
    “Eugenio Pacelli – the future Pius XII – was the Vatican nuncio in Germany and later its secretary of state.” Part of the accusations are his apparent close relationship with the Nazis.

    You’ve got to be kidding me that you are shocked by the review above. But then again, I suppose you don’t really follow JihadWatch, so are out of the loop with the links between Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and the Nazis.

    You can’t answer my question, so you try to distract with a question of your own. You made the suggestion the Rabbi was bought. Be a good boy, and come out and say it.

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  45. Danyl Mclauchlan () says:

    Wrong pope, huh? Well, no they do include files to the start of WW2 on “Eugenio Pacelli – the future Pius XII

    And the article clearly states:

    Under pressure to counter criticism from historians and Jewish groups, the Vatican in 2003 published selected files concerning its prewar relations with Germany, including correspondence from Pacelli when he was papal ambassador in Germany.

    If you go back and bother to read the article you linked to you’ll see that the Vatican have already made material relevent to Pius XII available, and they’re now releasing archival data regarding Pius XI.

    You’ve got to be kidding me that you are shocked by the review above.

    What gives you the impression that I’m shocked?

    But then again, I suppose you don’t really follow JihadWatch

    Curiously enough, no. I don’t stop and listen to the schizophrenics screaming at the walls on Cuba Street, either, and I suppose my life is the poorer for it. Besides, you and your buddies faithfully regurgitate the talking points of the far-right blogosphere for me over at Sir Humphreys, so I don’t feel the need to monitor any of the other hate sites.

    . . . so are out of the loop with the links between Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and the Nazis.

    Lucyna, the chances of you knowing something about a historical figure that I don’t are very remote. I’ve been aware of Mohammad Amin al-Husayni since the first time I visited Yad Vashem as a teenager.

    You can’t answer my question, so you try to distract with a question of your own. You made the suggestion the Rabbi was bought. Be a good boy, and come out and say it.

    Was the Rabbi bought? I’ve no idea. But let me ask you this – if a book was published clearing Mohammad Amin al-Husayni of any involvement in the Holocaust and you discovered the book was paid for by the Palestinian Authorities Ministry of Education, how much credibilty would you extend towards it?

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  46. MrTips () says:

    “Lucyna, the chances of you knowing something about a historical figure that I don’t are very remote”

    OH Danyl, you are SO intelligent….

    BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    God you bioinformatic types are just so full of it………

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  47. Lucyna () says:

    Dim,

    If you go back and bother to read the article you linked to you’ll see that the Vatican have already made material relevent to Pius XII available, and they’re now releasing archival data regarding Pius XI.

    Yeah, and??? You were the one that said “wrong pope”. What exactly did you mean? I’m guessing you thought I was confused between Pius XI and Pius XII. I was not.

    Lucyna, the chances of you knowing something about a historical figure that I don’t are very remote.

    Oh. You are Omniscient. See all and know all. Delutions of grandeur, there, DIM?

    Continuing a conversation with an omniscient personage is pointless. You already know what I’m going to say. So go ahead and talk to yourself for the amusement of whatever readers are left of this thread.

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  48. Mark () says:

    I found that particular episode to be one of Matt & Trey’s weakest. There are so many better ones: “Sexual harassment Panda”, “The Paris Hilton Whore-off” etc were far superior.

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  49. Whitebread () says:

    Sorry Craig, but holding forth on matters spiritual, political and moral is what the Catholic church does. It is one of the last of the large mainstream Christian churches to refuse to bow to the “if it feels good do it” and “anything is alright with us” doctrines followed by some of the others in their misguided attempts to attract followers. If you don’t like it don’t listen.

    To suggest that you’d like to “fix us” by creating a few martyrs with public executions on the steps of parliament is a little like me suggesting you take your reprehensible morals elsewhere or face public stoning and pillorying for being a homosexual.

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  50. Anne () says:

    The producers and directors of South Park should be fired following their shocking portrail of Steve Irwin. Have these people no morals at all? Would they like their late family members to be shown in such a dark light? Shame on them! SouthPark should be banned world wide.

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  51. David Farrar () says:

    Oh yes Anne – a global ban because of Steve Irwin. Incidentially Trey and Parker probably would show their family members in such a light – they are equal opportunity offenders.

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