Islam in NZ
October 28th, 2006 at 11:29 am by David FarrarWhile I have real concerns for future immigration which may contain Islamist Muslims (those who beleive sharia has absolute priority over democracy and universal human rights) I have to say that I think New Zealand is incredibly fortunate that to date the extremists have not been coming to New Zealand.
We see this again today with the Federation of Islamic Associations of New Zealand disassociating itself from Sheik Alhilali on women as uncovered meat etc. They also point out he is not the Mufti of NZ, as some have claimed.
Likewise we saw very responsible leadership from the local Muslim community over the Danish cartoons earlier this year.
Related posts:
- Australian Sheiks on Rape
- A rare extremist in NZ
- Proud to be a NZer
- Islam, Christianity, and the West
October 28th, 2006 at 12:16 pm
What country do *you* live in? Do you really think there are not radicals here?
The leadership certainly was sensible over the cartoons, but they were holding back the youth with all they could muster.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 1:02 pm
Yep, it’s a fair bet NZ has a different species of Muzzy.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 1:38 pm
Any outfit that can come out with this statement has my support:
“The Muslim community of New Zealand is determined to live in peace and abide by the law. We clearly pronounce our commitment to the welfare of our nation, as much as we feel entitled to live in peace, and be respected as citizens of New Zealand. We declare that our commitment to the welfare of our country shall be
unquestionable.
God save our New Zealand.”
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 1:39 pm
Maybe the diet rich in dairy foods and the cool climate has produced a genetic variation Fred?
of course, we won’t mention the group found in Mt. Albert just before the Sydney Olympics with street maps of Sydney and details about the Lucas Heights nuclear reactor. Or the large numbers of fake N.Z. passports found in the possession of islamists in Bangkok…..
Vote:N.Z. is a convenient and hospitable staging post for these people and perhaps they simply don’t want to foul that up.
October 28th, 2006 at 1:51 pm
“God save our New Zealand.”
hmmm….
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 2:23 pm
God help my New Zealand.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 2:51 pm
Keith, you should borrow Murray’s Saxon toy soldier outfit and pop along to Stormfront, plenty of people there happy to muse about OUR New Zealand.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 2:51 pm
The threat to our country is not necessarily from the responsible leadership or their followers presently in the country. The lesson of London, Paris, Sydney, and elsewhere is that it is the next generation of New Zealand born Moslems who will be a threat to our existence.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 3:00 pm
toms, you should borrow a brain and pop along to some sites that actually report what the agenda of islamists is.
Vote:And by the way–over 6 thousand,/b> attacks carried out by islamists since 9/11.
How many by Stormfront?
October 28th, 2006 at 3:02 pm
take a look, toms:
Vote:http://www.jihadwatch.org/
October 28th, 2006 at 3:57 pm
Both political parties deny the wishes of the NZ population on continued muzzie immigration.
Hulun and Don are paralysed as usual.
Time to cut through the crap and see what voters want by including a referendum
on the matter at the next election.
Let’s make 66% the ‘stop it’ figure, for the sake of clarity for the left.
You think you’ve seen an hysterical government or two in your time?
Nah, you haven’t. Wait until a referendum is near……because they already know the result.
Alternatively the muzzie numbers could be cut to near zero bureaucratically with minimal spatter.
Vote:If a referendum is certain, this would be the state’s response.
October 28th, 2006 at 4:36 pm
I wish there were no muzlimz in NZ, they and their culture is far removed from OUR WAYS.
Just look what muslims are doing to Europe, I think it is too late for France and UK now.
I have read the quran many times since 9/11, and from what I have read islams goal is to rid the world of infidels (us) , .
I hope our polititicians wise up to this islamic cult before its too late.
Australia is going to have to sort the muzlim problem out real quick if they want to hold on to the freedoms of democracy and free speach.
Ban Izlam from all western nations.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 5:39 pm
You might want to get that doll and geekfest fetish looked into toms.
Meanwhile outside groups who study terrorism have indentified 10 radical groups recruiting and fund raising within New Zealand.
BTW I specialise in Roman early empire period, not Saxon. Or Jute or Angle just to be clear. People give me money for it.
Historical knowledge like current events seem a little misty in your fantasy driven perceptions. Go play with you bomb belt barbie.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 5:44 pm
Kieth said “Maybe the diet rich in dairy foods and the cool climate has produced a genetic variation Fred?
of course, we won’t mention the group found in Mt. Albert just before the Sydney Olympics with street maps of Sydney and details about the Lucas Heights nuclear reactor. Or the large numbers of fake N.Z. passports found in the possession of islamists in Bangkok…..
N.Z. is a convenient and hospitable staging post for these people and perhaps they simply don’t want to foul that up.
KIETH YOU ARE DEAD RIGHT AND SPOT ON
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 5:52 pm
Umm,”no Muslim extremists in NZ”well from my limited experience of the muslim community here;I have been called a infidel and told I would burn in Hell if I did not repent after walking into a meeting by chance held by an out of town cleric whipping up the local muslims.It was quite a frightening experience.Also I have seen the ability of a ”good muslim go bad”i.e. a muslim professial who was what you would describe as nominal in outlook who did the ”Haj”, had a vision while in Mecca,grew the beard and is one step away from enrolling in a flying school!My point being that when you have any Islamic population you are running this risk,even in sleepy old NZ.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 6:28 pm
“God help my New Zealand.”
Orright you clowns
A particular reason why I copied that statement from the Muslim Council of NZ is it’s a clear statement of intent upon which it is clearly prepared to be judged. That, in itself makes it a unique document for Muslims where it has placed primacy on the nation, not on religion. That’s an old fashioned Anglo-Saxon declaration that I can respect and monitor.
JC
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 6:44 pm
“I have been called a infidel and told I would burn in Hell”
Oh, you’ve been talking to those dudes with the crosses on Queen Street on a Friday night?
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 7:01 pm
I’m still trying to figure out how you managed to walk into a mosque in the middle of a sermon ‘by chance’.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 7:14 pm
Good old dim. Adds a mosque where before there was not a mosque. Did you get a building permit from the council, dim?
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 7:16 pm
Time to grow up John, NZ naivety is cute but dangerous.
Vote:Muzzies even have a unique word for it.
‘Lying and deception of infidels (taqiyya) is encouraged. This may take many forms, including outright lies, feigned moderation, and condemnation of terrorist attacks to the Kaffir while rejoicing with fellow Muslims’.
October 28th, 2006 at 7:24 pm
Islam is certainly a religion of intolerance.
Now, another iman says it’s okay to kill gays.
http://www.gcn.ie/content/templates/newsupdate.aspx?articleid=1409&zoneid=4
When are the left going to wake up from their craven stupidity and realise that Islam opposes everything the left supposedly believe in , like gay rights, women’s rights, diversity, freedom of speech, etc.
Anyway, let’s also poke fun at Islam as let’s face it, its pronouncements are just so stupid as well as wrong.
Here’s something Iowahawk came up with, which is another treat found on LGF.
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2006/10/ask_the_aussie_.html
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 7:29 pm
Darren, the Iowahawk item is hilarious!
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 8:35 pm
I’m with DPF and John Cawston on this one.
I realise that there are some extremists “out there”, and that “out there” could easily include Palmerston North, a natural magnet for depravity, decadence and desperation (or so the rumours go).
We’ve been wanting the moderates to disassociate themselves from the nutjobs, and this is what is demonstrably happening. It’s a start.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 8:52 pm
“Time to grow up John, NZ naivety is cute but dangerous.
Muzzies even have a unique word for it.
‘Lying and deception of infidels (taqiyya) is encouraged. This may take many forms, including outright lies, feigned moderation, and condemnation of terrorist attacks to the Kaffir while rejoicing with fellow Muslims’.”
You appear to misunderstand me. We have a flat statement from the NZ Muslim community that NZ comes first. It’s our Anglo-Saxon tradition to treat people on the basis of their words.. and beat the snot out of them if they fail to live up to them.
I will give this community due respect for it’s words and hold them to it. If they fail me I will remind them of the contract they made with NZ Inc. and demand remedial action. If they fail again I will demand that offenders be removed from our society.
What I won’t do is prejudge a segment of the population that has done little wrong, has educated itself and performed better than the average Kiwi. However, I will be watching..
JC
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 8:53 pm
Super…..
Want to see how Muzzies have inevitable political consequences?
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20658333-601,00.html
Sounds great.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 8:54 pm
I’m with DPF and John Cawston on this one.
I realise that there are some extremists “out there”, and that “out there” could easily include Palmerston North, a natural magnet for depravity, decadence and desperation (or so the rumours go).
We’ve been wanting the moderates to disassociate themselves from the nutjobs, and this is what is demonstrably happening. It’s a start.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 8:56 pm
I’m sure you’re a fine upright fellow John.
Expecting Anglo-Celtic behavioural norms from Muzzies is touching but beyond stupid if you’re an evidence based thinker.
Let’s have a referendum on it instead.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 8:59 pm
>>When are the left going to wake up from their craven stupidity and realise that Islam opposes everything the left supposedly believe in , like gay rights, women’s rights, diversity, freedom of speech, etc.<
When is the right going to wake up to the fact that either we figure a way to live with the Islamic people of the world, or we undertake an ethnic cleansing of around 1.4b people? Fantasies of such immense depravity render the Kraut with the toothbrush mustache a well-meaning duffer by comparison.
And no the left is not blind to the deplorable list above, but ask yourself…are we more likely to see progress to a less fundamentalist Islam via confrontation and aggression, or by living up to the values that WE profess to hold to?
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
The left’s way of coping with Muzzies is dhimmification or genocide.
Lateral thinkers aren’t they.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 9:27 pm
ew..!..hasn’t this one brought out the ‘repellant ones’..eh..?
the wild-eyed ones from the other end of the spectrum..the foamers/frothers/panters and moaners..
the murrys..the freds..the keiths…
ew..!..eh..?
and how about towakas’ little made-up story (one for the grandchildren..eh..)
how did it go..? .
“as i was out strolling one night..
i came across a wild-eyed muslim cleric..
oh..!…children did i quake..
for not only was he a muslim cleric…
he was a furriner..!
i heard him wail..i heard him moan..
(he wanted to turn me into stone..)
all my deepest fears were there to see..
i was so scared of what that muslim would do to me..
so home did i flee..
and fell panting in the door..
which i made sure i double-locked behind me..
so ..let this tale be a warning for you..
of what fear can do..
for you could be out strolling one night..
and this could happen to you..
you could come across a muslim furriner cleric..
who will want to bring all your fears home to you….
what can a poor xenophobic/racist do..?
(tee-hee..!..aren’t they irrational/ignorant feckin’ idjits…eh..?..)
dumb as fuckin’ wood…!
and barking with it..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 9:35 pm
I see the trend…
phil the confused wants to vote in a referendum on Muzzie immigration and by Dog it’s his right.
We’re working on it matey.
Vote:Hold on.
October 28th, 2006 at 9:48 pm
Why don’t they work out how to live with US?
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 9:49 pm
see what i mean about ‘barking’..?
just a totally random..what..?
q.e.d.
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 9:50 pm
Could we have a referendum on whether fuckwits like Fred should be allowed here? I don’t mind queuing for that one.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 9:52 pm
phil, u’d better get used to the notion that your young feller and my grand children are going to spill their blood in a conflagration which will dwarf the second world war for numbers of human casualties. There is nothing you or I can do about it so long as the Imams of Islam are permitted to continue unrestricted, polluting the minds of Muslim youth with their insane toxic madness.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 10:04 pm
Sorry Fred, I blinked and missed that profound insight you were offering.
For the first time in 200 odd years the West is encountering at least two rivals, the Chinese and Islam who are not prepared to keep swallowing whole the “we are innately superior turd” that we have been stuffing down their gullets with arrogant and usually ignorant abandon.
Personally I do not feel the slightest tiniest little bit of responsibility for any of the arrant medievalism that some Muslim clerics spout. I am entirely repelled by bigotted self-referential righteousness no matter what the label attached. I condemm out of hand the toxic brew that of a repressed, homophobic, Arabic macho honour culture, entwined with a lost and desperate Islamic clergy who are vainly hoping to restore lost glories of their historic power base.
Yet we cannot wipe out 1.4b people, nor can we ignore them and hope they will go away.
Our only hope is to offer those 1.4b people something BETTER than what they already have, and just in case you haven’t noticed, they are no more likely to convert to all convert to enmass to the Celtic-Saxon Christian view of the world, than we are to all become Hasdic Jews. We cannot FORCE the Islamic nations to to our view, we can only model to them something better. Yet for the most part, I wonder if you and I could walk a mile or two in their shoes exactly how WE would judge the actions of the West…as distinct from the platitudes we mouth at them.
Still I see that Adolf has opted for genocide…how apposite.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 10:08 pm
Don’t panic phil.
Remember it’s the ‘Religion of Peace’.
Vote:So nothing for you or the kids to worry about there.
October 28th, 2006 at 10:12 pm
adolf…
my boy has friends of many religions/races..
he dosen’t see any difference..neither do they..
and btw..how about those nutjob end-times/rapture-freak christians..?
those ones that are..”..polluting the minds of (their) youth with their insane toxic madness..”
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 10:12 pm
“And no the left is not blind to the deplorable list above, but ask yourself…are we more likely to see progress to a less fundamentalist Islam via confrontation and aggression, or by living up to the values that WE profess to hold to?”
Vote:Red Rag, radical islam is spreading even in moderate islamic countries. Egypt, Jordan, Indonesia, Malaysia all have major problems with the fundamentalists. And Somalia has just fallen to them. Nigeria has the same problem. That’s by no means a complete list of the countries under attack from these thugs.
“The values we hold to” are repugnant to them and they intend to destroy them. They’ve said so over and over again.
What part of “we want you dead or dhimmified” don’t you understand?
We regard beheadings, ritual stonings, clitorectomies and the rape and murder of schoolchildren as somewhat more than “deplorable” We on the right share a common opinion of that–it’s fucking barbaric you fool, not deplorable.
October 28th, 2006 at 10:27 pm
And I’ve posted some of your above comments on my blog.
Vote:As an example of leftist stupidity.
October 28th, 2006 at 10:30 pm
Keith,
OK so the poor old word “deplorable” has been so debased of meaning I guess we will have to open up that dank, dark cupboard and drag out on a tight chain that frothing, ranting, eye-ball starting word “barbaric” to make you happy eh?
I take it you are voting here with Adolf?
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 10:31 pm
Think of the referendum they fear as if it’s a free market…
All the information is in and will be reflected in the result/price.
Phil can’t wait.
Vote:Red is delirious with expectation.
And Milt will defend the democratic vote to his last breath.
Unless he gets scared.
October 28th, 2006 at 10:40 pm
Same old same old, RR. You don’t address a single fact.
)
Vote:Your comments look great on my blog–I’ve been looking for a good example of leftist claptrap this evening and yours rang the bell.
Congratulations!
October 28th, 2006 at 11:04 pm
Redrag, you said “Still I see that Adolf has opted for genocide…how apposite.”
That’s not the way I read it. He didn’t “opt” for it. It was a prediction, not a wish.
If you can’t understand another person’s point of view from the same society, then why are you so confident that you have a handle on Islamic extremism?
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 11:08 pm
>>Egypt, Jordan, Indonesia, Malaysia all have major problems with the fundamentalists<
Along with Turkey and Iran all of these countries were moving quite nicely along the same secularisation line that we in the West have taken as well. Except that we couldn’t leave them alone could we? We just had to go and mess with them. There are extremist nut-job psychopaths present in all populations, all the time. They usually only become dangerous when the bulk of the people, who normally seek to live private and peaceful lives with their neighbours, are denied the opportunity to do so, or their communal prejudices are activated for political purposes. At that point the people can be polarised by a single relatively small incident, that becomes symbolic for all the real and imagined outrages they have suffered. At that point entire nations unravel from the bottom up and unreasoning, barbaric, gut-wrenching bloodbaths are the outcome.
I have you marked down as a tick in the “mass genocide” box. You seem to be real keen on the idea and you haven’t bothered to deny it. You would earn some points for honesty if you just came out and said it…Adolf did…I’m sure you can.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 11:12 pm
“I’m sure you’re a fine upright fellow John.”
Why thank you.
“Expecting Anglo-Celtic behavioural norms from Muzzies is touching but beyond stupid if you’re an evidence based thinker.”
The evidence is that there is a powerful statement that NZ Muslims are NZ citizens first. That’s much more powerful than I’ve heard from any other group of recent times. The evidence is also that NZ Muslims are not a problem in NZ and are in fact net assets.
I’ll go with that for the time being.
“Let’s have a referendum on it instead.”
Sure. The evidence will show that NZ Muslims are not a problem but may be at some stage if we persist in the failed policies of Europe. Integration is the key.. not multiculteralsm.
JC
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 11:18 pm
ZenT,
>>That’s not the way I read it. He didn’t “opt” for it. It was a prediction, not a wish.>>If you can’t understand another person’s point of view from the same society, then why are you so confident that you have a handle on Islamic extremism?<
A rather good point. One that extends to all of us no? Moreover it was the kind of thing I had in mind when I said above:
“We cannot FORCE the Islamic nations to to our view, we can only model to them something better.”
If blogging has taught any of you anything, it should be the futility of trying to change another person’s thinking and behaviour by shouting at them insults.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 11:18 pm
“I have you marked down as a tick in the “mass genocide” box”
I’d expect something so stupid from you. And so simplistic.
“Adolf did…I’m sure you can.”
Vote:Adolf didn’t. Unlike you, he argues with honesty. See Zen Tiger’s comment.
If you wuish to impugn my honesty, visit my blog and do it there. That way, I can treat you with the respect you desreve, which is to say none.
http://crusader-rabbit.blogspot.com/
October 28th, 2006 at 11:19 pm
“deserve” pimf!
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 11:25 pm
a racist xenophobe calls himself ‘crusader rabbit’..eh?..
tee-hee..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 11:29 pm
yaaawn–the little leg-humping poodle still hasn’t worked out the difference between race and culture.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 11:30 pm
LOL Keith. Somethings ARE simplistic. Either you have an intention to live peacefully with your neighbour or not. (And yes, your neighbour is a bit of a retrograde hillbilly arsehole at times, and no, moving out is not an option.)
It is really very simple. Either you want to fuck with 1.4b people or not. Imagine I handed you a little black box with a big red button on it that would eliminate EVERY Muslim from the face of the earth right now…no mess, no fuss and no personal consequences to you. Would you press it, and if not, why not?
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 11:34 pm
“It is really very simple.”
Vote:No, it isn’t simple.
“Would you press it, and if not, why not?”
Before I answer that, tell me, would you be prepared to fight rather than live as a dhimmi in an islamist society?
October 28th, 2006 at 11:47 pm
One only has to look at the problems that European countries are facing with their ever growing and unassimilated muslim populations to wonder why on earth anyone would want to put our own countries future under the same kind of peril.
Do the multi-cultural fetishists here also want an annual car burning and rioting season like the French are getting, or have our more outspoken politicians and filmakers assassinated like the Dutch are getting? Simply put, do they want our entire freedom loving way of life threatened? Do they want their daughters or grand-daughters to have to cover themselves in a hijab when they go out, for fear of being raped? Thats the reality that is facing many European countries which will be muslim majority by the middle of this century.
Finally to Redrag, don’t be an idiot. Just because we don’t want immigration of muslims in this country doesn’t mean we are calling for extermination of the billions living in their own countries.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 11:47 pm
Cripes.. a basic “bloggers wriggle out of by countering a question with another question gambit”. It doesn’t impress me the least, you’ll have to do better than that.
It is YOU who is promoting this “clash of civilisations” agenda, not me. But if for just a moment I accept that the threat you are obsessing about is so immently real; then it is only fair that I challenge you on what should be done about it.
Vote:October 28th, 2006 at 11:51 pm
oh. I see–the RR rules of engagement? I’m supposed to submit to a grilling by you, so you can ridicule the replies without having to put your own beliefs out there?
Vote:get stuffed.
October 29th, 2006 at 12:04 am
“Cripes.. a basic “bloggers wriggle out of by countering a question with another question gambit”. It doesn’t impress me the least, you’ll have to do better than that.
It is YOU who is promoting this “clash of civilisations” agenda, not me. But if for just a moment I accept that the threat you are obsessing about is so immently real; then it is only fair that I challenge you on what should be done about it.”
Let’s “unpack” that load of tripe, eh?
1) what makes you think that anyone gives a damn whether you’re “impressed” or not?
2) no, I won’t have to do better than that.
3)no, I am not promoting a clash of civilisations in my comments here.
4) concern about a threat is not the same as “obssessing” about it.
5) “if” it’s imminently real? IF? something that’s happening right now is about as “imminent” as it gets.
6) why is it “only fair” that you challenge me on what should be done about it? wtf has fairness got to do with it? So far you haven’t advanced a single, concrete suggestion about what should be done, yet you feel in your arrogance that you should challenge me?
Put up your own analysis of the problem and suggest some answers to it. Sniping from the sidelines with a load of soft, half-baked platitudes doesn’t constitute analysis, by the way.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 12:05 am
>>>Just because we don’t want immigration of muslims in this country doesn’t mean we are calling for extermination of the billions living in their own countries.<
Oh dear. Not since Kupe first paddled past has NZ been isolated from the world. Of course we have “policies” to moderate the rate and nature of immigration to NZ, but they are not some kind of magical force field that will somehow forever keep at bay hordes of barbaric muzzies from our blissful kiwi beaches. We are an indivisible part of the modern world, we are debating the shape of global civilisation…”immigration policy” is a very flimsy fig-leaf to be hiding behind.
The question of how the cultures of the world adapt to an era when the are now forced to live cheek by jowl with each other is the most vital one of all. There is no longer any space, neither geographic nor social between us all to cloak the difference with the comforting insulation of distance. No sir indeed, our arsehole neighbours can no longer be safely consigned to some far-off hell-hole ghetto, they have turned up in our own leafy burbs…and we don’t like it much do we?
Trouble is that this time there is NO other new place to move to, we are all stuck on this planet that is now one bloated ugly dammed global village…and the peons are revolting. There is really nowhere to hide from the question, if you are going to beat the drums of fear-mongering, then I am going to ask you, what happens when the people start acting out their fears?
Or do you have a better plan? That would interest me.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 12:13 am
“Or do you have a better plan? That would interest me.”
Vote:so far, I haven’t seen your “plan”. Unless you consider the comment above to be a plan?
October 29th, 2006 at 12:26 am
Quran 9:63 Know they not that whoso opposeth Allah and His messenger, his verily is fire of hell, to abide therein? That is the extreme abasement.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 12:30 am
Let unpack this then:
1. >> what makes you think that anyone gives a damn whether you’re “impressed” or not?>no, I won’t have to do better than that.>>no, I am not promoting a clash of civilisations in my comments here.>> concern about a threat is not the same as “obssessing” about it.>”if” it’s imminently real? IF? something that’s happening right now is about as “imminent” as it gets.<
And so are a million other things happening in the world, and at least a few hundred of them are far more worthy of our concern than a relative handful of self-aggrandising clerics who fantasise that they can take over the world. That is the oldest of all failed dreams.
PS. Answering questions with more questions is the kind of smartarse stunt most 12yr olds grow out of…what’s your excuse?
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 12:34 am
yaaawn. Nothing new and still no “plan” from you.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 12:42 am
Got the yawns? Sorry I’ve kept you up WAY past your bedtime…off you go now…nighty night.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 12:44 am
It’d take someone far more interesting than you to keep me up, RR.
Vote:I just got bored waiting for your “plan”.
October 29th, 2006 at 5:59 am
nuthin’ to fear but fear….eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 7:35 am
Why do I always get the feeling Adolf and the rest of you clowns fervently anticipating the apocalypse are typing this stuff with one hand?
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 9:59 am
So as a part of the pre-referendum debate it seems useful to examine
the Chief NZ Muzzie’s train of thought.
Who is he?
Don’t mess with the underlings, the experience in Aust. is they often
have a better grasp of PR.
In fact it’s probably a good idea to run some of Aussie Catmeat Hilali’s
quotes past the NZ guy to see if he twitches.
Catmeat 1982:
‘The two cheapest things in Australia are the flesh of a woman and the
meat of a pig’.
Catmeat on rape 2006
‘If you take uncovered meat and put it on the street, on the pavement,
in a garden, in a park, or in the backyard, without a cover and the cats
eat it, then whose fault will it be, the cat’s, or the uncovered meat’s?
The uncovered meat is the disaster. If the meat was covered the
cats wouldn’t roam around it. If the meat is inside the fridge, they
won’t get it’…….
……..’The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room,
in her home, in her hajib (Islamic headdress), no problem would
have occurred’
And in case you don’t get the ‘context’, he goes on helpfully:
‘Satan sees women as half his soldiers. You’re my messenger in
necessity, Satan tells women you‘re my weapon to bring down
any stubborn man. There are men that I fail with. But you’re the
best of my weapons’.
Yep, you’d certainly want to import as much of that as you could get.
Vote:In Aust. they’ve found Muzzies are certainly a prime source of
premium immigrants.
Go for it Hulun. (Maybe she thinks we deserve it for our
Anglo-Celtic-Polynesian sins. After all, if the sheep will accept
muzzie immigration they can be relied on to accept almost anything).
October 29th, 2006 at 10:44 am
As far as immigration goes, you reap what you sow.
These people are here now and there isn’t much you can do about changing the laws, if so it would only make Muslims 2nd class citizens.
And we know that won’t happen.
Whats the old saying…East is East, West is West, and never the twain shell meet!
You can only really blame past govts around the world were immigration and a barrel of Oil went hand in hand.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 10:47 am
Odd that Islam should lock women away as instruments of Satan here on earth and then promise virgins galore in paradise as a prize for martyrdom. That’s a paradox I’d like to understand.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 11:01 am
yes andrew..that one is a bit strange..
and how about those christian theological/ideological paradoxes/contradictions..eh..?
i mean..where to start..?..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 11:09 am
Andrew, it’s interesting that lefties so often counter criticism of islam with cheap shots at Christians, eh?
Vote:The bottom line is: Christians don’t spread their doctrine by murder. Islam does.
Any attempts at moral equivalence look pathetic and shallow. It was islamists who murdered a priest and a nun as retaliation for the Pope’s remarks. When did a Christian last murder an islamic leader in retaliation for hate speech?
October 29th, 2006 at 11:21 am
True true, where to start indeed. But let’s not limit paradoxical beliefs to religious groups.
Mankind as a whole is quite accustomed to viewing things though personal ‘lenses’ that reward each of us the image that we’d like to see.
If this is the correct approach then there can be concept of absolute truth… and rightness and wrongness are simply contextual.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 11:22 am
Andrew;If young Muslim men are not even permitted to LOOK at Muslim women for a nanosecond longer than necessary,wouldn’t it make perfect sense for these chaps to get horny enough to reason that one second of “dying by bomb” to get their hands on 72 virgins,is a bloody good idea?
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 11:36 am
‘a relative handful of self-aggrandising clerics who fantasise that they can take over the world’.
Yeah, too true Red. The French prove your point.
France has 5 soon to be 7 million muzzie guests who are wonderfully
assimilated contributors to civil life in France.
4000 police reinforcements called up this weekend, 30-100 cars
burnt each and every week.
More wounded French police than Allied wounded in Iraq.
But of course, how could they have known?
Just a relative handful. Nothing to see here.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 11:40 am
Keith, hear what you’re saying.
Think we need to remember that humans of all religious backgrounds have done horrendous things in the name of God.
If you go back to the religious texts it’s there that much of the truth of a religion’s intent can be found. The Bible is pretty long on freedom of will, to choose God or not. To be fair it lays out the consequences of rejecting God but at the end of the day we have a free will.
By contrast – and I’m not an Islamic scholar – Islamic belief seems to be predicated on submission to the faith or death – each involving plenty of force and not much free will.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 11:52 am
The bottom line is: Christians don’t spread their doctrine by murder. Islam does.
Any attempts at moral equivalence look pathetic and shallow. It was islamists who murdered a priest and a nun as retaliation for the Pope’s remarks. When did a Christian last murder an islamic leader in retaliation for hate speech?
Duh,whats happening in Iraq?
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 11:52 am
The broader issue here is that it is always a small number of extremists that spoil it for everybody else. Most people on the planet want the same thing – good health, a roof over their head, a full belly and a few extra resources so they can have a bit of fun or help out others.
The biased press always pans in on the flaming bottle throwers – they don’t pan around on the millions of citizens working hard and keeping their country’s infrastructure running, and begging the extremists to stop the carnage. These extremists on both sides of any conflict subvert peace all round the world (the classic example is Northern Island, can anyone understand that one!) and wreck things for everyone else. Read some overseas newspapers to get a balance and you’ll see.
A major challenge for the world, the UN and the US is how to rein in the extremists so everyone can have a better life. Behind the scenes you will find there are a large number of people working on these problems but they don’t increase press ratings.
And who should we see about this state of affairs, who fuels the flames for their own short term gains? Hint: the word begins with “P”.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 11:53 am
The bottom line is: Christians don’t spread their doctrine by murder. Islam does.
Any attempts at moral equivalence look pathetic and shallow. It was islamists who murdered a priest and a nun as retaliation for the Pope’s remarks. When did a Christian last murder an islamic leader in retaliation for hate speech?
Duh,whats happening in Iraq?
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 11:58 am
Wilma – Think it’s democracy together with an unhealthy side-serving of capitalism that’s being pushed in Iraq.
You’d need to work pretty hard to convince me that Bush is using bullets to secure converts to Christianity
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 12:20 pm
Hey Fred & Wilma, great to see you guys again. Bedrock just wasn’t the same without you. Not sure what all this religious talk is about. Bowling is the only religion eh Fred?
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 12:20 pm
Hey Fred & Wilma, great to see you guys again. Bedrock just wasn’t the same without you. Not sure what all this religious talk is about. Bowling is the only religion eh Fred?
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 12:21 pm
You can’t blame the innocent people for what the extremists do. All these counties like France have laws and all non-extremists would agree that the full force of the law should be applied to rioters, terrorists and the like. The problem is that the world in general and the western world in particular seems to have Stockholm-syndrome-by-proxy and just can’t do it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
A criminal is a criminal and they should be treated as such.
Often these events are triggered by gangs a warlords, and have little if any political relevance. They prey on unstable supposedly disaffected people and use them to their own selfish ends. If well all work together we can beat this thing in a fair way for everyone. If we engage in ferocious accusations against people who are just trying to work hard and bring up their kids, we cannot.
Oh, I stand corrected, you can always blame that ultimate whipping boy – capitalism. Oh how stupid of me, who blew my legs off – oh it was capitalism. 21st century calling…
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 12:39 pm
Porc – I’m not blaming capitalism. You can’t blame an idology, only people. And sadly a great many people are selfish, a trait that seems to be readily found in political leaders.
Iraq is now spun as a democracy play when many believe it’s more of a geo-political attempt to sure up energy supply and to benefit from the power that accompanies such supply. That’s dishonest, it stinks and people are dying needlessly because of it.
Back on-topic, I completely agree that lumping the problems such as France are experiencing at the feet of Islam is massively simplistic and possibly more dangerous that the problem we’re trying to solve.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 1:30 pm
Andrew, yes there is a small degree of truth in what you say is the motivation for Iraq – extremists come in all shades and some extremists are making money and power out of the situation. So in return for me not giving you the “they’ve saved our buts more times than we’ve had hot breakfasts” or the “how would you react if 9/11 had happened to you” speeches consider this. I think what motivated non-extremist Americans to support some form of action/aid against totalitarianism was a century’s collective guilt. I think the genuinely feel remorse that they could have intervened earlier in the two world wars and numerous other crises and do not like their previous governments isolationist stance. And Iraq may have been chosen because they felt guilty about the previous Bush administrations fiasco in not going in and taking out the totalitarians (and defending the Iraqi people from their retribution) when they had a UN mandated chance.
So all I would like is for people to look at both sides and “know them before you judge them”*
Lets hope the rational people of the world can rein in the extremists and we can all get thour it together.
[*With the notable exception of any bureaucrats that could dream up an idea like taxing cow farts – you can judge them as much as you like.]
Porc
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 2:56 pm
Hey – if we incinerated all Muslims we could end dependance on foreign oil you know. What a good idea.
Who said this people (it’s not the Will O’ Allah):
All wickedness is but little to the wickedness of a woman. … What else is woman but a foe to friendship, an unescapable punishment, a necessary evil, a natural temptation, a desirable calamity, domestic danger, a delectable detriment, an evil nature, painted with fair colours. … Women are by nature instruments of Satan — they are by nature carnal, a structural defect rooted in the original creation.
–from Malleus maleficarum , published by the Catholic Church
We thank you for your great moral victory.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 3:21 pm
It’s a gory sight….Ruth just shot herself in the foot.
The MM was written 1486…the Catholics have evolved since then.
The Koran was written around 750….the Muzzies haven’t changed a thing.
Nice point you made Ruth, about the unchanging hysterical medieval nature of the Koran.
Vote:Thanks
October 29th, 2006 at 3:25 pm
Heaven forbid what century did this come from? Thank god we’re more enlightened now, although some women do use witch hunts to cement political power.
Perhaps things havent changed that much after all.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 4:20 pm
I don’t think they have Porcupine.
Is Islam itself an extremist religion? Or is Islamic extremism one manifestation of a right-wing, male backlash — a militaristic ideology that also includes Christian Dominionism?
All the extreme conservative interpretations of religions are misogynistic and militaristic, or at least I can’t think of a single one which isn’t. Their relative popularity today shows that the appeal of a violent and woman-hating religious angle has grown, and one reason for it surely is that women are not quite as oppressed and silent as they have been in the past.
Would an alien from outer space die from laughing when it/she/he learned that the Catholic church decisions which ban women from the clergy and disapprove of any birth control for them are made by men in long dresses?
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 4:51 pm
The West gave Saudi and other Arabs the opportunity to live on Billions of dollars in oil revenues which they would otherwise not have had access to.
The West gave the spoilt descendants of the Mughals in India their own country to rule, Pakistan, along with one of the then world’s great armies, half the Indian Army, for the fat Delhi aristocrats to impose their rule in their new domicile. To draw the hostile masses in this new nation together the Delhi-ites taught extreme Islamism and mythical victimhood, thus giving the world terrorism in many forms right up to the present. Millions were slaughtered thru the decades because a bunch of Delhi aristocrats had an irrational fear of Democracy.
We gave them undeserved charity. They rewarded us (and their own Muslim poor masses who they were supposed to help with our largesse) with their corrupt evil.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 4:51 pm
The West gave Saudi and other Arabs the opportunity to live on Billions of dollars in oil revenues which they would otherwise not have had access to.
The West gave the spoilt descendants of the Mughals in India their own country to rule, Pakistan, along with one of the then world’s great armies, half the Indian Army, for the fat Delhi aristocrats to impose their rule in their new domicile. To draw the hostile masses in this new nation together the Delhi-ites taught extreme Islamism and mythical victimhood, thus giving the world terrorism in many forms right up to the present. Millions were slaughtered thru the decades because a bunch of Delhi aristocrats had an irrational fear of Democracy.
We gave them undeserved charity. They rewarded us (and their own Muslim poor masses who they were supposed to help with our largesse) with their corrupt evil.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 5:01 pm
>
Well keith, what are the Americans doing in Iraq, if not spreading their doctrine by murder.
A notable murder of an Islamist in retaliation for hate speech, was of Saddam’s son by American soldiers. They also paraded pictures of his corpse on western television to show their trophy.
Muslims and Christians are as bad as each other, they have hated each other since the Crusades.
You and those like you can not be blamed for your bigoted opinions as the information available to you, as in most western countries, is seriously modified before you receive it.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 5:04 pm
Ruth, I have major issues with all religions, and, lack of free speech and my nice gentile kiwi nature forbids be to launch into that here or anywhere else. Can we just say that the word archaic would figure prominently. But I will respect the right of the faithful to change their practices in their own good time.
I was actually talking much more recent and much closer to home in my witch hunt reference. Luckily for NZ you are absolutely and totally right about one thing:
“women are not quite as oppressed and silent as they have been in the past”
I find that women have an extremely well developed sense of justice and are increasingly questioning how our current regime came to power and how they retain that power. Because your statement IS CORRECT the women of NZ will eventually do us all proud and bring justice back to this country, I’m sure.
Hey Ruth, what is your blog site? It wouldn’t be capitalism bad; tree happy would it – I was having trouble finding anywhere to freely post an opinion there and I’ve got a really good question to ask. Then again there wasn’t much sunlight shining on that site, I would have to say. If not can I post the question on yours? Does your site run to men who believe in justice and equality for all?
Thanks, sorry to get off the beaten track g(irl)(uy)(ay)s
Yours affectionately, Porc.
PS Yes an alien even with the brain of a bacterium would die laughing at us – perhaps they could queue up in the Wellington cocktail circuit for their turn. But as they say “we’d better pray theirs intelligent life up there in space because there’s bugger all down here on earth”.
PPS, Dave I could give you that witch hunt story if you like, and test just how deep your precious freedom of the blogs goes in this country – any takers eh? 20th anniversary issue anyone?
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 5:53 pm
I don’t think this is true. Islam is an explicitly psycopathic, violent ideology that endorses expansion through conquest. Christianity is supposed to be non-violent and tolerent, even if there don’t seem to be many Christians around who actually believe in any of the values (poverty, humility, pacifism) that their founder preached.
There’s a nice quote from a historian of the crusades that sums up the difference between the faiths:
“Unlike Christianity, which preached a peace that it never achieved, Islam unashamedly came with a sword.”
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 6:07 pm
“Unlike Christianity, which preached a peace that it never achieved, Islam unashamedly came with a sword.”
I’m not too familiar with the Koran and its teachings, and doubt most on this blog are experts either. But it is a widely held view, that the Crusades were more about conquering wealth and territory, than spreading Christianity or protecting the birthplace of Christianity. This was fought for with sword in hand, not with bibles and preachings of peace.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 6:16 pm
A question worth asking when dealing with any immigrant population is, if we were to move to their country, would their Government and society let us do in their country what they propose to do here in ours?
Islam has the stated goal of converting or killing all infidels and imposing Sharia law. If we were to go to one of their countries, would they allow us to covert them to Judeo-Christian, or even to an athiest belief system that does not match their Islam/Sharia system?
Some (not all) Chinese come in and expect to live in isolation and only speak their own language and set up their own businesses and do business with each other and in workplaces speak to each other in Mandarin so no one else can understand what they are saying. Would we get away with that approach in Communist China?
Rgds
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 6:22 pm
The yakking continues as usual;nothing new here.For myself I will totally relax about Islam’s purpose when I can be guaranteed that all radicals identify themselves with a forehead branding saying “death to the West”, or similar.Moderate Muslims may detest the more radical element,to varying degree,but my Muslim friend tells me that fear of consequences is the big deterrent to “naming and shaming’.as she said,,”are you joking!?..I’ve got a family and two kids to think of”.This woman lives in Mt Roskill and is much involved in local “multiculturism”.To those of you bloggers who live south of Hamilton or are MPs…bugger off;you probably do not know what you are talking about. I live nearby the area that academics find so “instructive”.Do you?
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 6:34 pm
Anyone who thinks New Zealanders wouldn’t act like this needs to take a trip to East Acton.
To answer your point, I’d like to think that our country can treat people with more respect and tolerance than, say, a totalitarian theocracy like Saudi Arabia or a communist dictatorship like the Rupublic of China. If you really want to take either of those states as a model for government in New Zealand then maybe you should try living in one of those countries for a while. I guarantee you’ll change your mind.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 7:08 pm
“–from Malleus maleficarum , published by the Catholic Church”
You forgot to mention that MM was invented by two German priests who forged a letter of acceptance and approval from Cologne university (which had actually condemned the work as unethical).
MM was produced in either 1486/87 and was then *banned* by the Catholic Church and *condemned* by the Inquisition in 1490.
Nevertheless, the book was popular and actually used later by the Protestants in their witch trials.
JC
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 7:17 pm
The Catholics didn’t need no stinking book to tell ‘em who was jewish satanic.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 7:18 pm
“Anyone who thinks New Zealanders wouldn’t act like this needs to take a trip to East Acton.
To answer your point, I’d like to think that our country can treat people with more respect and tolerance than, say, a totalitarian theocracy like Saudi Arabia or a communist dictatorship like the Rupublic of China. If you really want to take either of those states as a model for government in New Zealand then maybe you should try living in one of those countries for a while. I guarantee you’ll change your mind. ”
You’ve proved the point I was making. If people want to live in a Theocracy they can live in Saudi Arabia. If they want to live in a Madarin speaking communist country where bribes and favours are the order of the day they can live in China.
Why should we let all manner of immigrants steam roll us in our own country when they would never let us do it in theirs?
If people want to immigrate to NZ, swear allegience and loyalty to our country, learn our language and live by our laws and customs, fine. If they want to impose other systems, NZ is not the country for them.
This is why there are dozens and dozens of Nation States. If everyone wanted the same Political System, the Same Relgion and the same Economic system, the same Language, the same cultural values and customs, we would only need one global government.
Why should we be so scared to say, “this is New Zealand, this is how we are. If you want to be a part of it, welcome. If you want to cause havoc, we’ll book you on the next flight home”?
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 7:25 pm
>
The papacy lost their leadership in the Fourth Crusade, when material interests caused Crusaders to disregard and discredit even such an eminent Pope as Innocent III. In many respects, the papacy overreached itself by making promises that did not materialise and predictions that proved wrong. Flocks of the faithful were infected by skepticism and doubt when papal proclaimations of easy victories and materials gains to be won on the Holy Land proved anything but true.
On April 13 1204, crusaders captured Constantinople and promptly spent 3 days ransacking and raping, sparing neither palace nor church, noblewoman nor nun. The Crusaders ravaged and ruined the Byzantine capital as part of their plan to raise the money, manpower and supplies for their Egyptian expedition.
Historian Geoffroi de Villehardouin
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 7:29 pm
>
The papacy lost their leadership in the Fourth Crusade, when material interests caused Crusaders to disregard and discredit even such an eminent Pope as Innocent III. In many respects, the papacy overreached itself by making promises that did not materialise and predictions that proved wrong. Flocks of the faithful were infected by skepticism and doubt when papal proclaimations of easy victories and materials gains to be won on the Holy Land proved anything but true.
On April 13 1204, crusaders captured Constantinople and promptly spent 3 days ransacking and raping, sparing neither palace nor church, noblewoman nor nun. The Crusaders ravaged and ruined the Byzantine capital as part of their plan to raise the money, manpower and supplies for their Egyptian expedition.
Historian Geoffroi de Villehardouin
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 7:36 pm
I see this has touched a nerve, so would any of you anti-imperialists/antiamericans out there like to comment on why its a good idea that we could be colonised by one modern aircraft carrier?
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 7:48 pm
Porcupine,
If our Rt. Hon Prime Minister is to be believed, we live in a benign strategic environment. That’s why her Government cancelled the F16 order and our old fighter force is parked up in the hanger.
Meantime our troops are spread around the globe doing the U.N’s bidding and the intention is to replace our Naval fleet with inflatable water taxis designed for basic search and rescue.
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 8:48 pm
After reading the last 103 comments, our kids are in for one hell of a rough time! My forebears left Croatia in 1893 because of the atrocities and slaughter that occurred in Bosnia/Serbia, it has been the frontline between Muslim and Christian for the last 1000 years, yep and the frontline is now arriving on the next plane, Helen & the UN will roll out the red carpet(no pun intended) for them, as it ensures a future voting base for the Labour Party, how short sighted can we all be. Throw her and the socialists out at the next election, or we are all condemed to a bloody future. – Yeah even in Gods Zone
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
I’m sure the godless Labour party – with it’s agenda of Civil Unions, legalised prostitution and womens rights and it’s history of deporting suspected Islamic radicals or imprisoning them for years without legal representation – see a huge opportunity in the fundamentalist muslim voter base . . .
You might want to tell your counsellor that the current Lithium prescription is a little too strong . . .
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 10:32 pm
Absolutely right on Simo – and those who ignore history are destined to repeat it. Historians aside (and it has been very interesting learning the ultimate causation of terrorism). However the proximate causation of terrorism has a much simpler recipe.
1. Bring up your children from the cradle to think they are oppressed and part of a disaffected group in society
2. Stir gently with liberals and politicians to give them a bad, biased education to reinforce this notion
3. Make sure they see images in the media that continually reinforced this notion. Get liberals and politicians to fan the flame for their own personal gain at every photo opportunity.
4. Create and elite group who control all the resources who can organise these people and make sure none of the resources trickle down to the people that need it
5. Take the small band on homicidal maniacs that this society produces and sick them one the rest of us.
What did the SS start as? Gangs.
Sorry if I’ve given away any trade secrets.
Porc, Northern Island, New Zedaland
Vote:October 29th, 2006 at 10:45 pm
Danyl, grow up. Wake up and look at history. Your beloved political masters will quite happily chew you up and spit you out when they are done with you.
Vote:October 30th, 2006 at 12:31 am
The way those thousands of Muslims committed mass suicide at Srebrenica just shows how devious they are.
Well, my Bigot’s Brain says it’s only Muslims that slaughter, and nice white European Christians don’t do that kind of thing, so I’m sure that’s what really happened. The media and the historians, calling it the worst atrocity in Europe since WW2, they were all lying.
Speaking of WW2 … were the Muslims responsible for Auschwitz or the Rape of Nanjing? I always get those two mixed up. They must have done one of them. Maybe both. Think Atrocity, think Allah. Forget facts, focus on fear.
Also, some of them don’t shave.
Vote:October 30th, 2006 at 1:04 am
If thats aimed at me then I take offence, read my comments above. My comments are aimed at terrorists and the extremists that support terrorism, home and abroard. Not at Muslims or any other sector of law abiding society.
The fanatics, including politicians, that whip these mentally unstable people up into performing these acts are just as guilty as the terrorists themselves, no matter what religion they are.
There are three sides to any of these stories and I would like to think I am on the side of the innocent population caught in the crossfire as the politicians battle for money and power.
And where was the precious UN in all of this – passing resolutions and renaming genocide “ethnic clensing” so they didnt have to act.
Vote:October 30th, 2006 at 7:16 am
Porcupine – you seem to see ‘liberals’ as one of the main causes of terrorism. I wonder how you think ‘liberals and politicians’ conspired to give the 9/11 bombers a bad education and an image as victims when they were growing up in Egypt and Saudi Arabia? How exactly do ‘liberals’ manage to carry out their nefarious activities in the Hamas run madrassas in occupied Palestine? And how did ‘liberals’ go about getting their toe-holds into the strict Catholic schools that the vast majority of SS members recieved their educations in?
Vote:October 30th, 2006 at 9:28 am
Danyl,
You failed to read the four lines above the Helen bit, mate, talk about a selective spinner!
Vote:October 30th, 2006 at 9:32 am
Danyl, I mean extremists at both ends of the political spectrum (we all know they are actually bedfellows because they meet on the other side). In the vast majority of cases these unstable terrorist types come out of the woodwork, not because they are dispossessed but because they have been told they are dispossessed for someone’s political gain. Politics is an enormous feeding trough world wide and they will use anything to gets their snouts in deeper (sorry there go those trade secrets again, but really its self evident).
I was taking a swipe at liberals because it is they are doing the damage now, whereas other members of the political aristocracy did the damage in the past (viz kings in crusades etc).
Although I hate this left/right crap if you allow me an oversimplification for effect then the answer is quite simple. If the people of the world caught in the crossfire between the ones left of Stalin and right of Hitler told them to bugger off, then they would have no choice but to.
I suppose I round on PCs and liberals as a group somewhat unfairly but, in modern world climate they are quite culpable. Not only do they create and feed the environment and fan the flames of the unstable radicals on what you would consider the left side of the argument, the same environment creates the people you would say are on the right side of the argument.
Now the PCs have had centre stage since that fateful day one August when they conned people into thinking anyone left of Lenin has surrendered the moral high ground. But hello, we never did! and the PCs have muffed it good baby! Lets fight for the people, catch the criminals and get at the route causes of this thing. Even Amnesty international sometimes criticises “left wing” regimes.
The answer, and this is where we probably agree, is certainly not to hate the innocent majority in any sector for what a tiny, mentally deranged minority does.
Vote:October 30th, 2006 at 9:44 am
Hey right on. But spinners, dont listen to history. Invent a time machine and come back when NZ has divided into six countries which spend all their time shelling each other.
Vote:October 30th, 2006 at 10:04 am
I’m never more ashamed to be a New Zealander than when I read the comments section of this blog on the topic of Islam.
Vote:October 30th, 2006 at 11:10 am
Yes I too have been shocked by it. I think it is a symptom of exasperation that no one seems capable of providing a solution. The toothless UN cant do it – they are too busy renaming genocide because its in their charter that if a case of genocide occurs they are duty bound to act – not just talk, but act, Reg.
Short term solution – punish the criminals and let the innocent get on with their lives
After that you need to deal with the root causes:
- recognise that these acts are done by a criminal element that prays on any society
- develop the correct social services to minimise the size of this criminal element the proper laws to protect society from this criminal element.
- hold politicians and others accountable for fanning the flames by creating divisions where often they don’t even exist.
Its not actually rocket science.
The really scary thing is that we cant even seem to do this even in advanced western countries like Northern Ireland or here where our population is no larger than a little city.
So be ashamed, but how about a suggestion?
Vote:October 30th, 2006 at 1:40 pm
David, unfortunately we do have fundamentalists here. More in the form of money laundering rather than working towards an attack. I am told that it is kept relatively under wraps because they are generally small groups of people who are being well tracked by our intelligence services.
My Arabic teacher and her husband refuse to go the local Mosque because they say there are plenty there who preach radicalism.
And not a bad idea to remember recently how NZ passports were the hottest for fundamentalists to get their hands on.
Rohan Gunaratna (author of Inside Al-Qaeda)is very open minded and possibly a little liberal on these matters and even he suggests NZ has to buck it’s ideas up with regards to our approach towards fundamentalists.
Vote:October 30th, 2006 at 2:00 pm
“My Arabic teacher and her husband refuse to go the local Mosque because they say there are plenty there who preach radicalism”
Which Mosque is that?
Vote:October 30th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
“Which Mosque is that?”
That could identify the person.
JC
Vote:October 30th, 2006 at 4:28 pm
Or it could identify you as talking shit
Vote:October 30th, 2006 at 5:17 pm
Thanks John. Nonny, think what you like. But I would sincerely hope you had good reason to suggest I am talking “shit”….not just because my view is contrary to your opinion. Not a smart way to debate an issue. Or, as they say in Arabic, incheb!
Vote:October 30th, 2006 at 5:46 pm
Stop press.
Catmeat Shreik Hilaly rushed to hospital. Allah being questioned by police.
“We’re concerned it’s an inside karma job” said Commissioner Moroney.
Gee, let’s hope it’s not serious.
Vote:October 30th, 2006 at 6:24 pm
“I’m never more ashamed to be a New Zealander than when I read the comments section of this blog on the topic of Islam.”
I’m never more ashamed to be a New Zealander than when I hear or read of “New Zealanders” who are in favour of allowing people into our country who worship a Religion that states in it’s holy texts and through it’s leaders proclamations that they should convert or kill infidels.
Vote:October 30th, 2006 at 8:55 pm
Let us join the dots.
Vote:Number of Islamists in NZ – considerable.
Terrorist threats by Islamists – nil.
New Zealand involvement in the Iraqi war – nil.
Islamist feeling about their role – they are kiwis.
Number of Islamists in US – considerable.
Terrorist threats by Islamists – extreme.
US involvement in the Iraqi war – complete and destructive.
Islamist feeling about their role – they are excluded.
Perhaps we should thank Helen for the quality of her leadership that has removed the possibility of islamic terrorist action in New Zealand.
And perhaps we should work out how to live together in peace.
October 30th, 2006 at 10:07 pm
Hey are you just an uneducated kid having a break from and internet game?
The fact that anyone could think that appeasement is the way to keep yourself safe from terrorists and totalatarians just makes me literally weep. You have your freedom today because previous generations stood up for themselves and won.
Learn from history little fellow or we are destined to repeat it.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 9:25 am
Hey Micky, remember 9/11? Yeah, it happened before the Coalition troops went into Iraq. Wakey, wakey! And any PM that says we live in a “strategically benign environment”, should be gagged. And are you really that idealistic to believe our special forces arn’t contracted in Iraq? Jeepers!
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 9:39 am
The liberation of Iraq and the introduction of freedom and democracy there, a noble goal.
I’ve not been keeping up with the news, how is all that working out?
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 10:28 am
Sonic, you may not have read the previous comment to which I was commenting. The suggestion was that the US was unsafe because of Iraq. Iraq is a mess. The point I was making was that 9/11 occurred long before 2003 when the US went into Iraq. The US was a target long before 2003: Dar Eslam, Nairobi, USS Cole, first twin tower attacks…..getting back to the core issue, it is about fundamentalism and it’s absolute intolerance of anything non-representative of who they are. And I would strongly urge a little more objectivity than to blame it all on Iraq.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 10:45 am
stop press 2
‘Catmeat Hilali under guard in Aussie hospital.
Vote:Non hajib wearing nurses (aka catmeat)
hope this and the Shreik’s condition will prevent corrective raping’.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:21 am
….9/11 occurred long before 2003 when the US went into Iraq.
um, Desert Storm?
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 11:30 am
“Iraq is a mess”
Indeed Iraq suffers a 9-11 every week. But hey lets all just forget about the carnage in Iraq, after all they are only muslims, and we all know how much you care about them.
Am I right!
I also will attempt to remember that history began on September 11th 2001 and any mention of preceding events (200 years of western colonial massacres in the ME for example) represents a victory for all of those who hate freedom.
Why do they hate freedom so much?
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 1:00 pm
simon g – no Muslims may not have been directly responsible for huge numbers murderous acts in WW2. But to say there was no Muslim involvement is simply not true. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem wa given refuge and protection in Croatia, a so-called Christian Catholic country that supported the Nazis and absolutley stood by while its long-standing and assimilated Jewish inhabitants were murdered. The thing is the Mufti was not only a supporter of the Nazis but fired up the local Muslims to turn on their fellow Jewish citizens too and made sure there was plenty of unrest at the formation of Israel.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 1:46 pm
Sonic, good thinking (not). Then you can pretend no-one died in greater numbers under Saddam Hussein. Some of the population lived in peace, and the news didn’t feel obliged to report on Saddam’s failures or brutality, and he never started any wars or provided a terrorist training camp for 5,000 or so mercenaries that ended up in Bosnia.
He never built a nuclear reactor and never had nuclear ambitions. Nothing proven, nothing to believe.
Easy. Simple. Nice. Benign.
A world without America would be a different world indeed. It might not be as pleasant as you imagine.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 4:08 pm
Who wants a world without America?
What a ridiculous statement.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 8:51 pm
Uh guys, a bit of history may help. Gosh, Saddam was put into power by the US and given chemical weapons that he used against the Iranians in the 1980s. He also killed 182,000 Kurds in 1987 using those weapons. The US hated Iran at the time and a local megalomaniac in the area that hated Iran was considered beneficial. At least he was their megalomaniac.
Vote:Saddam was given support until the 1990s when the Americans realised that he was unstable AND was a threat to their supply of oil. As for 9/11, there has never been a link between Sadam and/or Iraq and the bombing. The links between Al Qaeda and Saudi Arabia are much stronger. Why wasn’t Saudi Arabia invaded?
October 31st, 2006 at 9:27 pm
Uh guys, a bit of history may help. Gosh, Saddam was put into power by the US and given chemical weapons that he used against the Iranians in the 1980s. He also killed 182,000 Kurds in 1987 using those weapons. The US hated Iran at the time and a local megalomaniac in the area that hated Iran was considered beneficial. At least he was their megalomaniac.
Vote:Saddam was given support until the 1990s when the Americans realised that he was unstable AND was a threat to their supply of oil. As for 9/11, there has never been a link between Sadam and/or Iraq and the bombing. The links between Al Qaeda and Saudi Arabia are much stronger. Why wasn’t Saudi Arabia invaded?
October 31st, 2006 at 9:31 pm
Its amazing to read this site and look at all the APOLOGISTS OF THE INSURGENTS.you lot think because u will talk nice about them they will leave you alone. And you call yourself kiwi’s! what a bunch of pathetic weak kneed sychophants we have in this country now, nz’ers we traditionall a HARD, JUST and FAIR people, now look at what we got!
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 9:55 pm
Remuera socialists. Its like going to confession for them.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 10:12 pm
Well, I think the Muslims need to recognise two key Christian values
1 – There is no God but God.
2 – God it great.
Until they understand that, there is no chance for a dialogue between East and West.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 8:55 am
“Well, I think the Muslims need to recognise two key Christian values
1 – There is no God but God.
2 – God it great.”
Correct me if I’m wrong, and I’m sure you will – but aren’t the muslim & christian gods (not to mention the jewish god) all one & the same divine being?
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 12:03 pm
When muslims increase there numbers in western countries including New Zealand and gain significant political power then people will find out what they are about.
We want to live in free liberal societies well islam is not liberal and i remember a comment i read made by a muslim it goes like this.
islam doesn,t allow it,s self to be dominated islam dominates.
We will being fighting our muslims in the end i have no doubt.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 12:05 pm
When muslims increase there numbers in western countries including New Zealand and gain significant political power then people will find out what they are about.
We want to live in free liberal societies well islam is not liberal and i remember a comment i read made by a muslim it goes like this.
islam doesn,t allow it,s self to be dominated islam dominates.
We will being fighting our muslims in the end i have no doubt.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 2:15 pm
“”I’m never more ashamed to be a New Zealander than when I read the comments section of this blog on the topic of Islam.”
I’m never more ashamed to be a New Zealander than when I hear or read of “New Zealanders” who are in favour of allowing people into our country who worship a Religion that states in its holy texts and through its leaders proclamations that they should convert or kill infidels.”
I’m sorry please remind me how many of my Muslim friends have tried to kill me (or convert me for that matter) recently?
Try reading a bible cover to cover one day and I’m sure you’ll find more than a few passages which cause offence.
As was pointed out earlier, history didn’t start on September 11. Western countries have been attacking Muslim countries for a long time. Those actions have fuelled the radicalisation of people in those countries. I don’t defend the 911 attacks but I can understand why they happened.
What makes me proud to be a Kiwi is that most of us choose not to judge. When I read some of the bigoted uninformed comments made on this site by people, who I believe to quite intelligent, it really worries me about the way this country is going.
Part of being free is refusing to be scared.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 2:47 pm
Cameron – you won’t need to judge. History will judge you with the blood of your great grandchildren unless they convert to islam.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 7:48 pm
Dave deleting many posts?
Vote:The censorship thing cutting in I guess.
Good luck.
November 1st, 2006 at 9:00 pm
Nope…temporary glich here.
Vote:Dave pristine Jeffersonian
November 23rd, 2006 at 3:51 am
He that spares the bad injures the good… Joyce
Vote:November 23rd, 2006 at 3:51 am
He that spares the bad injures the good… Joyce
Vote:November 23rd, 2006 at 3:51 am
He that spares the bad injures the good… Joyce
Vote:February 15th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
As the world all bickers in hypocrisy over the corruption at the apex of the Amway Plan, the children are crying. The Children are Dying.
As my Mother Earth reigns down on me; My Father who art in Heaven shall rescue me….
Man is no longer in control. Prophecy dictates the future.
In Sha Allah
Proud to be Kiwi – Aotearoa, land of Hope.
I am actually very well loved in foreign islamic communities.
Allah & Christ both preach LOVE not WAR yet everyone is fighting. Faith will shine the way… The Westerners will repent when the truth is brought to light.
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Vote:September 23rd, 2007 at 6:10 am
It is shocking to see how you make pre judgements about Muslims leaving in our country.
Vote:Firstly it is advisable to go and find out the meaning of terrorist in the dictionary before making any comments.
I got thousands of muslims friends, who are nice and peaceful but unfortunately this Islamophobia issue brought up by people from other countries are not only brainwashing but also trying to create a tension between muslims and Christians of NZ.
Go to this link : http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/637961 they are also muslims trying to protect their community from theother attackers and I guess they don’t think like us, but think about other humans.
September 23rd, 2007 at 6:21 am
You guys are very good in associating the word “Islam and Terrorism” although Islam means submission to God to be peaceful and Terrorism means to bring about terror by the political means.
Secondly if a group of people have commited a sin and they happen to come from the muslim backgroud, we can’t blame the whole muslim community,can we.
Finally, if you are talking about 9/11 then you should also talk about the Bombing in Hiroshima that killed over 100,000 people and that was not a terrorist attack at all, all the innocent,men,women and children were killed and I guess that was not a terrorist attack.
Yeah the only community to blame is muslims while the rest are OK, they are clean and are not born to rape, kill, murder,rob, trick, oppress,bomb or even poison other countries and people but its the only community involved in this and to be blamed and that is Islam and muslims.
Before making a comment why don’t you turn the coin and look at theother side of it first and stop blaming this one community all the time.
Vote: