Which country is this?
October 31st, 2006 at 3:57 pm by David FarrarOn Saturday more than 200 cars were set alight. Over six months there have been over 21,000 cars burnt out. The latest saw a bus set ablaze when a group of teenagers forced open the doors of the vehicle and threw an inflammable liquid inside before fleeing – causing burns to over 70% of the body of a female passenger..
Is it Iraq? Is it South Africa? is it Sudan? Makes your guesses in comments.
October 31st, 2006 at 4:26 pm
France.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 4:26 pm
France and no prizes for gessing what group is causing the violence.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 4:32 pm
The Democratic Republic of Mangere?
But the real answer is France.
Go the disillusioned youth demographic.
Viva la pompiers!!
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 4:32 pm
That’ll be “youths” as littlegreenfootballs calls them.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 4:33 pm
That’s an easy on DPF, I doubt many of the people reading your blog will actually watch television or read dead tree products, so we are actually informed
BTW, I would also mention the number of attacks on police, or the comments of the police themselves. They won’t even deny the word intifada at the moment.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 4:37 pm
Nothing to see there, nothing to learn.
Muslim immigration…..why?
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 4:39 pm
I’ll say France… oh the beauty of multiculturalism
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 4:45 pm
Hey lets bash some Muslims!
It’s all the rage.
Someone should set up http://www.littlegreenrugbyballs.co.nz to give these people somwhere to play together.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 4:53 pm
Thats right Sonic.
No critiscism of religious minorities allowed. Especially not if they are burning cars & rioting. Minor crimes.
Lets concentrate on the heinious crime of critiscising the Greens & Labour, and publishing pamphlets at election time.
Oh and don’t forget organising street marches, where people dare to raise their right fist.
Come on guys, its open season on Destiny & the EBs
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 4:56 pm
My guess is that the country is SINGAPORE and the group responsible are the Exclusive Bretheren.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 4:57 pm
I don’t recall anyone who had a problem with the EB’s engaging in covert activities to influence a democratic election demanding that they be deported or banned from immigrating into New Zealand.
Now unless you have a link to anyone saying that Peter I’m afraid your point just drained down the sink with an audible slurp.
xxx
S
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 4:58 pm
Too late Peter S, the hedgehog logs out on the dot of 4:45. Must need to take the cardy off and get to the bus.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 4:59 pm
OMG still there sonic, sorry I doubted you
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 5:10 pm
I don’t recall anyone who had a problem with the EB’s engaging in covert activities to influence a democratic election demanding that they be deported or banned from immigrating into New Zealand.
Nope, just passing laws directed against them. Vitriolic attacks in the news, personal abuse (chinless scarf wearers ring any bells). Or how about the media & Labour accusing Destiny of being fascists?
I don’t see any comments on this thread advocating deportation just a question as to why we want the same problems imported here. Sort of like asking why someone might want to have an influence on an election.
Its very easy for a person to justify their own prejudice, whilst trying to hold others to account.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 5:13 pm
Muslim immigration……why?
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 5:53 pm
Sonic said: I don’t recall anyone who had a problem with …
Mate, that was below your usual standard too …
I don’t recall anyone talking about calculating the angle of refraction of the parallelic circle traveling at the speed of light past three men who took four days to mow a lawn of 6 hectares either. Did you hear anyone mention this? Oh yes, just me. Silly…
If you must drone one and on about the same non-issues in a desperate attempt to make them issues then get your creative juices going a bit or take a break and come back refreshed. Either of those options would work, as would asking your masters to feed you something zesty and intellectual to wow us with.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 6:13 pm
I always find it funny when people tell me how unsafe it is to visit Cambodia and how I sould go somewhere safer like Europe.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 6:21 pm
France is my bet.
However, I have just spent some time in France and before I went, I was keen to have a look at these North African ghetto/slum/mosque/terrorist camps that I have read about in such detail.
OK, so I may not have been quite as dedicated to the task as your average ‘jounalist’ sleuth, but driving around Paris, Chartres, Rennes and Caen, I honestly can’t say I saw much evidence of race riots. The people I spoke to (and I speak passable French) didn’t seem to be unduly worried about immigration either, as far as I could ascertain. Maybe they were just not opening up to a tourist: I dunno.
I did not see many black-tented darlek women peeping out of their burka slits either. I wonder if the blog reports are a bit overblown, or are there terrible areas that are hidden from view.
Has anybody reading this actually seen these muslim no-go areas firsthand? Maybe in the bigger cities like Lyon, Marseilles, Nice etc…?
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 6:25 pm
France is my bet.
However, I have just spent some time in France and before I went, I was keen to have a look at these North African ghetto/slum/mosque/terrorist camps that I have read about in such detail.
OK, so I may not have been quite as dedicated to the task as your average ‘jounalist’ sleuth, but driving around Paris, Chartres, Rennes and Caen, I honestly can’t say I saw much evidence of race riots. The people I spoke to (and I speak passable French) didn’t seem to be unduly worried about immigration either, as far as I could ascertain. Maybe they were just not opening up to a tourist: I dunno.
I did not see many black-tented darlek women peeping out of their burka slits either. I wonder if the blog reports are a bit overblown, or are there terrible areas that are hidden from view.
Has anybody reading this actually seen these muslim no-go areas firsthand? Maybe in the bigger cities like Lyon, Marseilles, Nice etc…?
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 6:26 pm
Beirut used to be called the Paris of the Middle East.
And now it is again.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 6:36 pm
Nice one Murray
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 6:43 pm
I blame soccer for Gallic inaction.
Vote:All that learned writhing on the ground is going to rub off on the rest of a kid’s life.
October 31st, 2006 at 6:47 pm
I would say its disgruntled labour party members in NZ after been FORCED to pay back $840000 THEY STOLE FROM US ,i think the BIG wiparound will have to go on forever, unless helen dosnt fly to where ever to go tramping , THINK OF THE GLOBLE WARMING SHE CAUSES, when she travels
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 7:00 pm
France of course, despite months of effort by the French police. Must be a QUAGMIRE!
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 7:32 pm
It’s clearly time for the French to withdraw their troops from France.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 7:53 pm
“Community leaders in run-down French suburbs have warned that the factors which played a key part in the riots – high unemployment, racial discrimination and alienation from mainstream society – remain unchanged.”
…or we could all just keep yelling “muslims!”
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 8:01 pm
“It’s clearly time for the French to withdraw their troops from France.”
Well, they have a fine tradition of it.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 8:35 pm
Yeah, correct.
Vote:No Muzzies here.
They’re all Presbyterians
October 31st, 2006 at 8:49 pm
David Farrar whistles … and cue the chorus: “Woof, woof, woof!”
But the dogs can’t help it: they’re dumb mutts. The whistler doesn’t have that excuse.
Interesting that a self-styled “classical liberal” turns out to be a student of Winston Peters.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 9:07 pm
France.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 9:14 pm
All lefties attack and cry racist.
The violent rioters are the victims.
Students of lah lah land.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 9:19 pm
I think you are quoting about the mini infanta in France, so yet another vote for there.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 9:21 pm
Its New Zealand in 40 years time. Lagging behind the rest of the world as usual we have not been able to deal with the terrorist threat (while the other nations all live in tranquillity). Instead of incarcerating the guilty parties we sentenced them to 10 one week holidays at outward bound to be served concurrently. We then sent them home for Christmas, gave them compensation and asked if they could please not do it again. Fearing for their lives (and because of years of a watered down education system, fumbling economy and mass exodus of anyone with any brains) the citizens turned to the National Socialist Front of NZ who took control. However when they interned American Samoans the US sent one of their retired Aircraft carriers which occupied us in ten minutes, rescued their citizens and then retreated because they couldn’t be bothered saving our sorry asses for yet another time after reading what sonic and others say about them on blogs. This left a power vacuum in a country full of uneducated people who had been dominated by extremist, ideologically driven governments for decades…
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 9:33 pm
Wow Simon whines that I asked a simple question. How fragile his world is to be unable to handle this challenge.
And now lets all wait and hear something profound from Simon. Why is France almost unique in having these car burnings amongst first world countries? Are there lessons that can be learnt?
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 9:36 pm
Meanwhile for simo, more on the Presbyterian menace in Aust…..no cars burning yet but plenty of uncovered catmeat.
Shreik Catmeat Hilali’s proctologist is reported to be shocked, “Most of the multi cultural left are up there”, said an ashen faced Dr Mo Digit,” and they all seem right at home”.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 9:36 pm
Gosh those 6m French Muslims are naughty, aren’t they? Imagine how bad it must be in Indonesia – that has 188m million Muslims, so they must be burning 6,267 cars per day!
France was much more peaceful in the old days without Muslims. I particularly admire the harmony of 1789, 1848 and 1871. Although there were lots of Muslims in France for the rebelllion of 1968, so that one must have been their fault.
Also, wasn’t it Muslims who invented Madame La Guillotine, and the Spanish Inquisition?
Back to the question … could be Britain. I think they have 1000 abandoned cars a day. If 2 in 10 are torched …
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 10:18 pm
France is my bet.
However, I have just spent some time in France and before I went, I was keen to have a look at these North African ghetto/slum/mosque/terrorist camps that I have read about in such detail.
OK, so I may not have been quite as dedicated to the task as your average ‘jounalist’ sleuth, but driving around Paris, Chartres, Rennes and Caen, I honestly can’t say I saw much evidence of race riots. The people I spoke to (and I speak passable French) didn’t seem to be unduly worried about immigration either, as far as I could ascertain. Maybe they were just not opening up to a tourist: I dunno.
I did not see many black-tented darlek women peeping out of their burka slits either. I wonder if the blog reports are a bit overblown, or are there terrible areas that are hidden from view.
Has anybody reading this actually seen these muslim no-go areas firsthand? Maybe in the bigger cities like Lyon, Marseilles, Nice etc…?
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 11:03 pm
David F, please don’t insult everyone’s intelligence. You did not, of course, “ask a simple question”. You threw your meat and the dogs came running. As you intended.
If you do want to have a serious discussion about the social and economic conditions in France today, that would be worthwhile. You might even make some reasonable “right wing” points about the centralised state’s failure to deliver prosperity to the poorer urban areas, while I might respond with “left” arguments about high unemployment and poor policing. We could even talk about integration and immigration, if you’re willing to confront France’s history of colonising the countries the immigrants come from. Because I’m sure you know they didn’t fall out of the sky.
Yes, that would be a debate worth having.
But that would require far more effort than just shouting “Muslims”. So I doubt you or your knee-jerk chorus will be interested.
Still, it’s your blog, and you’ve got the responses you wanted. Well done.
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 11:07 pm
That Dave’s a dag, eh.
Vote:He threw out a bit of catmeat and all the local dhimmis came running.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:36 pm
Is it a country famous for
1) socialism
2) surrender to invaders (except for one small indomitable village…)
3) being in the pay of Saddam Hussein
4) poor driving etiquette
5) perfume
…?
Vote:October 31st, 2006 at 11:43 pm
So here’s a question Simon and Fred. If you are so interested in having a conversation about why France is in this situation, why haven’t you started one instead of just whinging? DPF isn’t actually responsible for the people who frequent his comments section. And if you give up and leave the wasters to their one line explanations, you really aren’t in a position to complain.
My suggestion is that France is in a downwards spiral. They have failed to create enough employment, and the discrimination that I believe is more endemic in France than in NZ makes it particularly hard for the youths to get jobs.
They then have time on their hands, and get up to no good – including rioting and burning cars. This in turn feeds the prejudice, and makes things worse. As someone else noted, a quagmire.
The big question is how to reverse the spiral. Creating jobs would be a start, but it might be too late for that to be all of the answer. Unfortunately from here any answer is a bit ugly.
So, my suggestion is that the causes are European in nature – high unemployment/under employment, plus greater racism, leading to very high rates of unemployment in some ethnic and age groups. I don’t have any good answers, but would be interested in yours.
I might also draw a comparison with some areas of NZ society that have very high levels of youth unemployment, and are very disfunctional as a result.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 3:12 am
It’s a covert greenie plan to kill off motoring in France – the short term effects of burning cars designed to offset the shift to public transport.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 3:28 am
DPF isn’t actually responsible for the people who frequent his comments section.
That’s the whole point of dog whistle politics. The dogs get blamed but not the one who set them off.
If DPF were serious about this question he could try to pose an answer that justifies his framing of the question in this way. I mean a serious and intellectually articulate answer, not the simplistic snark he often throws around. There are obviously lessons to be learnt, the point figuring out what those are. Until then…
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 7:07 am
Sounds like some lawless islamic hell-hole in Africa, or a place outside africa where Africans came to stay and brought the lawless hell-hole islam with them. In other words, France.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 7:20 am
MCMC – “The dogs get blamed but not the one who set them off.”
Vote:Sounds a little like the lefties attitude to muslim violence – you can ( very mildly ) criticise dogs for rioting, but you can’t say anything about the whistle that set them off – islam.
November 1st, 2006 at 8:44 am
If this is what passes for debate on your blog David then you need to get a better readership.
What a pathetic bunch these mugs are.
Then again, you take the lead don’t you, maybe you could frame the debate in a more intelligent way, but that’s not really your thing is it?
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 8:53 am
I think the way forward for Muslims in NZ is to secretly run a $1.3 million campaign for National and arrange for a few private eyes to follow the PM’s husband around.
Then next time anyone questions them a bunch of tories will start quoting Pastor Niemoller.
Oh I forgot, most of them are brown skinned. No excuse for that for our resident bigots is there.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 9:01 am
Hey, he’s just tapping your knee to watch you guys jerk off.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 9:04 am
Projecting again Porcy?
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 9:15 am
jerk of the same tired, old rhetoric we’ve had to listen to since our student days, that was already out of date on the 1951 waterfront.
oh “sonic who doesn’t even know who the rich people are, that he loves to hate so much”
My family has indigenous blood but can you call me a Tory again, I love it when you talk dirty to me.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 9:21 am
Old Porcy seems a little obsessed with masterbation don’t you think?
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 9:26 am
I get enough screws from my government thanks, despite the quills
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 9:42 am
I think Sonic has drifted so far into political PC land that he can no longer distinguish between right and wrong, legal and illegal.
His only points of reference are vote winning vote and losing, PC non PC, Unbigoted and Bigoted (but unbigoted has been redefined as unquestioning acceptance of what the left says is currently acceptable, and bigoted is having an opposing opinion).
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 9:47 am
Posted by dismayed
If this is what passes for debate on your blog David then you need to get a better readership.
What a pathetic bunch these mugs are.
Then again, you take the lead don’t you, maybe you could frame the debate in a more intelligent way, but that’s not really your thing is it?
Then why frequent this blog?
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 9:49 am
So objecting to some commentators blind hatred of Muslims is now a case of “Political correctness gone mad”?
Well that is one opinion, it is of course a rather stupid one, however freedom does mean allowing fools to make fools of themselves now and again.
And Peter, you are that fool.
xxx
S
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 9:53 am
PCs fail on so many levels, one of which is they are victims of what their own yes men (generic sense) tell them.
They’ve chased all the people with opposing views underground by victimisation in the extreme* and don’t even realise they’re getting poor advice.
So dismayed, you want intelligent debate on these issues – decades of the left’s “if your not for us your against us” attitude has seen you wont get it.
*yes, some of us remember how the current matrio-aristocracy cemented power.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 9:55 am
Peter S, you have to understand that Sonic’s first reaction to an uncomfortable discussion is to blame somebody else. Preferably the National Party. Who did it in some Election time forgot and thus it’s okay for everybody else.
Of course, they never did. But that doesn’t really matter.
The trick is to reframe the discussion so the uncomfortable topics does not need to be discussed. Something Sonic does fairly well, even if transparently.
David asked a simple question. There were some idiotic responses to it.
But the question still stands. And I, for one, am curious to find out now why it is a certain group causing this violence. Why are their peers not engaging in the same type of madness?
I think I might just phone up a friend in France and hear what he thinks of what is happening.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 10:01 am
No Sonic, it is you who has tagged the conversation as being full of blind hatred. To everyone else it is debate, discussion and a fair amount of conjecture.
Your style could best be described at ‘blog discussion arsonist’. If you have relevant views then share them. If not perhaps try keeping quiet.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 10:14 am
No I like to hear all views, that’s why I visit I See Red etc. One sided discussions are boring.
I have said repeatedly that it is not these communities that are causing the problems but a criminal element within them who have been whipped up by politicians seeking promotions. These people, who are often dealing drugs and victimising their own communities, then appear to have a political focus. Moderates in their communities detest them more than we do. Even Condi is working with Hamas the try to reign in the destructive factions.
Don’t read what the yes-press in NZ says read some overseas press to get the real background to what is going on.
Multiculturalism is great, I’ve got nothing against it. In fact its given me a bonus – I now have several gods I can pray to, to save me from middle class socialists.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 10:16 am
From Stalin to Zaquari, the left never met a murdering scumbag it didn’t like.
After all, as long as you despise the West…. what’s not to like?
Some more advantages of Muslim immigration are revealed in the SMH..
‘Two of the “Australian” men arrested in Yemen on terrorism charges are the sons of Abdul Rahim Ayub, the man who set up a Jemaah Islamiah cell (in Aust.) and fled after the Bali bombings’.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 10:17 am
It never ceases to amaze me how twisted the left-wing mindset truly is – us having a discussion about who is causing the violence is “blind hatred”, but the act of burning cars and setting fire to innocent people is something perfectly understandable and entirely someone elses fault, no “blind hatred” there at all…
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 10:23 am
Everyone should know by now just to avoid sonic.
Vote:One of my best friends is french and he spends 6 months a year there. His view is the unrest is caused by disaffected youth who despite promises from the French govt just cannot get jobs. In France, when it comes to employment nepotism is rife. Especially in the public service where the perks are outstanding.Things such as cheap accomadation in quality heritage buildings, for life! This leads to Public servants putting their relatives forward. The “youths” feel that they are being discrimated against becasue they are foreign. Yes, lovely irony that we have a new ruling class discrimating against those who are not seen as being “truly french”. You only have to have experienced the contempt Parisians have for their provincial cousins as to their dialect to beleive this does happen.Liberty, equality, egality? Bullshit. Arrogance, hypocrisy and discrimination more like.
November 1st, 2006 at 10:29 am
I have a thick skin, and if being called a fool is the price of exposing double standards, then so be it.
Sonic, political correctness gone mad is your phrase not mine.
You have been pretty vocal on the EBs in the past, so to try to act as the voice of reason against bigotry against muslims is a double standard. Especially when, on one hand we have people being critiscised for actions that are legal, and on the other hand people being critiscised for actions that are illegal.
I’m all for calling a spade a spade. If you want to critiscise one side, fine, just don’t go getting on a high horse if the same thing happens to a different side.
Simple solution, and I’m speaking as an immigrant here myself. If you emigrate to a country, then obey the laws. If not, expect to be on the next flight back to your country of origin.
Llama,
Reasonable points and questions.
For the answers to why the particular section of society is problematic, I would suggest that the problem lies with the likes of the Grand Mufti of Aus & NZ, and his ilk. There has been a lot of hatred and discontent stirred by people like these on he pretense of preaching Islam.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 10:37 am
We all know it is france.
The more interesting question to pose is;
If the cheese eating surrender monkeys are haveing this much trouble with the muslim world after decades of appeasement, bending over, paying ransomes, secret trading and generally going against everything that is not in their own craven self interest what hope for those countries who dare to say no?
The earlier poster who found little evidence of unrest merely needs to switch on the TV or travel more than 10 minutes from the centre of paris. Paris is surrounded by satelite suburbs where the “ghettos” have formed.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 10:39 am
Mmm… Friday night on Auckland’s North Shore. It’s tough up here.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 10:43 am
Sudan, DPF?
They even have public transport?
Vote:Or as many as 21,000 cars to burn?
November 1st, 2006 at 10:50 am
I still think the wrath you have seen vented on certain sectors is only a symptom of fear – because NZers know we have a government that, when the chips are down, won’t defend us – they’d rather appease. And sadly you lefties that is THE perfect spawning ground for fascism. Look at history. QED.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 11:01 am
The French have a solution to the Islamofication of their country.
Vote:Vaseline.
November 1st, 2006 at 11:04 am
I can’t see how this is “trouble with the muslim world”. It’s disaffected youths who happen to parents who came from North Africa. There’s not much Muslim about this. And david’s point above about the French public service is accurate.
But it’s true that not taking part in the Iraq war didn’t buy France any favours from the extremists, all those armed troops at train stations are there for a reason. But France has never been a bunch of surender monkeys – the fingered Zaoui afterall, Chirac just wanted to continue doing business with Saddam.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 11:05 am
Yeah, mate these countries do have cars, public transport and infrastructure otherwise there’d be no-one there. Just is serves someone’s (talking internationals feeding troughs here) purpose not to pan the cameras round and show you the apartment buildings where the wealthy live for fear that someone might cotton onto that scam and think “hey there could be a political issue here”. Then the UN might have to do something other than change the name of “genocide” to “ethnic cleansing” or whatever (what, actually do something, Reg?). Oh no, lets leave that to the Americans like we’ve always done in the past, and get back to the cocktails….
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 12:24 pm
France……“The problem is not that these Moslem kids are unemployed, but that they are unemployable. They are illiterate, unskilled except in crime, don’t speak French well, refuse to assimilate into French culture and think being Moslem is more important than being French. Worse, they are paid by the French welfare state not to work, living well off the dole (and crime). The problem was epitomized by these words of a young Moslem rioter to a French reporter: ‘In the day we sleep, go see our girlfriends, and play video games. And in the evening we have a good time: we go and fight the police.’” Jack Wheeler
More Muzzie immigrants please Hulun.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 12:35 pm
Mmm… Friday night on Auckland’s North Shore. It’s tough up here.
Posted by Juha | November 1, 2006 10:39 AM
I blame the finns
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 12:40 pm
France obviously. What I can’t figure out is why they hate Peugeot and Citroen so much?
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 12:44 pm
Fred really is a sad little bigot isn’t he.
I bet if he cuts himself shaving he tries to work out a way to blame muslims for it.
Still he does quote that well known authority on all things French, Jack Wheeler.
More on Mr Wheeler here
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/blogs/wolcott/2006/04/flag_wavers_and.html
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 1:02 pm
being a reasonably regular reader of this blog, I must admit I find it somewhat odd that the lefties who post here almost always seem to go out of their way to try and shut debate down – mostly by slinging accusations of bigotry or racism about.
Sonic – if you want to make points of argument instead of making a fool of yourself, you somehow need to go beyond petty sarcasm to come up with reasons why such a debate (Muslim lawlessness is Fance and Muslim immigration) should be off limits. Why indeed should this not be discussed? And why, MCMC, does the fact that people have negative opinions about Islam provoke insulting rubbish from you about dogs? Is this really the level of your debate? If you have good points, I’m listening? If you are only here to spew self-righteous sarcasm, I don’t see what you have to contribute and why indeed you’re posting.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 1:15 pm
simon g: You might even make some reasonable “right wing” points about the centralised state’s failure to deliver prosperity to the poorer urban areas
Right wingers complaining that the state doesn’t deliver prosperity to the poor. Yeah right.
simon, it appears you have no idea what a right winger is. Rule number one: the state is the problem, not the solution.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 1:32 pm
1,2,3 the problem is not the debate, the problem is that the debate tends to be hijacked by, and I stand by this, bigots. Bigots who think they can judge 1 billion people due to the acts of few.
I’ve not mentioned dogs, I think you may find that was someone else. I do however find it proper to object to commentators spouting ignorant rubbish and using epithets like “Muzzie”
I also find it instructive that people like yourself never react to bigots like Fred, only to those who challenge them.
Why do you think that is?
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 2:13 pm
Sony seems to be getting a bit agitated, doesn’t he?
Seems obvious we need more Muzzie immigrants, especially the ‘convert or kill the kaffir’ kind. No way to know of course, so let’s take them anyway.
Vote:There is majority support I’d say.
Have a word to Hulun….as an added bonus she’ll make it so you never have to grow up, just like Peter Pan.
What could bring more joy to a comrade?
November 1st, 2006 at 2:14 pm
Sonic — If folks want to spout opinions that are could be regarded as absolute rubbish then the readers will make their own minds up about the author. No need for you alone to function as the judge, jury and executioner in respect of posters and their motivations.
Since I’ve been visiting kiwiblog I’ve observed that you offer little by way of genuine opinion on the thread topic and choose mostly to :-
(b) try to change the subject to Sonic’s side-issue de jour
(b) generally function as a ‘discussion thread arsonist’. There’s nothing wrong with challenging others, but it quickly become tiresome what that’s all one does.
On the plus side you admirably don’t resort to personal attacks unless you’ve been repeatedly jabbed with a red-hot verbal pokers.
I’m sure you have genuine views and opinions about the discussion thread topics. I for one am keen to hear from you and engage with you on them
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 2:25 pm
you’re an idiot!
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 2:25 pm
you’re an idiot!
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 2:26 pm
you’re an idiot!
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 2:27 pm
you’re an idiot!
and so on…
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 2:34 pm
“If folks want to spout opinions that are could be regarded as absolute rubbish then the readers will make their own minds up about the author. No need for you alone to function as the judge, jury and executioner in respect of posters and their motivations.”
One for the keep file Andrew for the next time you express an opinion on anyone!
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 2:38 pm
Sonic said
“1,2,3 the problem is not the debate, the problem is that the debate tends to be hijacked by, and I stand by this, bigots. Bigots who think they can judge 1 billion people due to the acts of few.
I’ve not mentioned dogs, I think you may find that was someone else. I do however find it proper to object to commentators spouting ignorant rubbish and using epithets like “Muzzie”
Take your post, replace 1 billion with a few hundred, replace “Muzzie” with “EBs” and take a look in the mirror.
BTW, I don’t agree with Fred, but, like you and me he is entitled to his opinion.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 2:46 pm
Sonic – sure thing.
If I should resort to exclusively lambasting posters rather than expressing opinions on thread content then please do point out my hypocrisy… and demand an apology, which I will supply.
Meantime I look forward to engaging constructively with you and others on the issues under discussion
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 2:48 pm
Quote Sonic “I also find it instructive that people like yourself never react to bigots like Fred, only to those who challenge them.”
I tend to dismiss them as the howling of an idiot and a lunatic fringe. Seriously, there are names you see and can simply ignore. People who use words like Liarbour, or Hulun. Sorry, I don’t have a place for that playground style of discussion.
So that is why I personally do not try to muzzle them. What I do object to is the immediate disrespect shown by, what is commonly accepted as “lefty” posters, for any topics that are considered contentious.
Why can we not discuss the problems that involve Muslims in France right now without having it ascribed to the religion / people as a whole?
Why can we not discuss the problem of immigrants and their effect on the welfare systems of some of the European states?
And the potential correlary to New Zealand, in that?
Ignore the loons. Discuss the topic openly and honestly. Eventually, like a child’s tantrum they will go away.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 3:01 pm
In some senses I agree with you Spitty, and I ignored “Fred’s” post for quite a while.
However in the end they got to me.
Point taken however.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 3:14 pm
Sonic
I have to say that after reading your threads for the last month or three, that you have to be the biggest bigot here. Your dislike for christians and groups like the EB is only surpassed by your fear of Brash . And let me state here that I find christians wet, and Brash quaint. However your credibility along with Simon G suffers when you try to play “holier than thou ” and then have a crack at others who have a faith of some description.
Get help mate. Get help.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 3:28 pm
I have no dislike for Christians and indeed have nevere expressed any.
My only problem with the EB’s is their actions not their beliefs.
As for fear of Brash, now that is funny.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 3:34 pm
I think you’ll find sonic that I didn’t accuse you, but a certain MCMC of calling posters dogs. You can retract below.
As mentioned by others, you would seem to be being somewhat hypocritical if you berate posters for exactly the same generalisations that you have previously made against the EB or Destiny church. I don’t usually read the comments threads here, so maybe you haven’t. Food for thought however, if indeed you have.
As for Islam, we’ll have to agree to differ. I don’t accept that it’s only “a few” who tarnish the image of the faith. One only has to point to the numerous countries that grotesque human rights abuses are carried out in the name of the faith to see this. That there is little outrage from the Islamic masses over beheadings, slavery, sexual apartheid and so on suggest that these are not abominations. When Saudi Arabia lets Christians hold services in the country is when I may change my mind about the desirability of Muslim immigration. Until then, and on the back of numerous terrorist acts and foiled plots, people have every right to be sceptical of Islam’s ability to coexist peacefully in the West.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 3:45 pm
sonic said:
I have no dislike for Christians and indeed have nevere expressed any.
If I can give you more than 5 threads where you have made disparaging remarks against christians, I would like you to start each post with: I am a silly little troll, in the pay of the labour party to spam blogs and to gain say anything that is not what our leader wants , But… and then give your opinion.
Wadda ya say? Sonic.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 4:07 pm
If you have the quotes lets see them Vson, I’m not interested in your silly little games thanks very much.
Again it is interesting that all of the venom is directed at me for attacking bigotry saving none for the person expressing it.
1,2,3 the United States of America is carrying out gross human rights abuses, should we ban Americans from immigrating? you may be aware that Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship where speaking out against the state is not a wise idea. It is also a dictatorship armed and protected by the “Christian” West, as are all of the oil rich gulf monarchies.
The world is far more complex that a simple Islam=bad, The West=good.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 4:24 pm
123,
Perhaps you don’t understand metaphor, but “dog whistle politics” is a term for a specific type of political speech which has particular meaning for a segment of the audience which is receptive to coded communication. The way DPF posed this question was a good example of dog whistle politics.
If you’ll notice, I’m more than willing to engage in reasoned debate about this, and most other, topics. My complaint is that the lunatic fringe often dominates comment threads in a way that is difficult to ignore and I felt this point encouraged that type of comment instead of a serious discussion of why France is seeing these levels of social unrest.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 4:26 pm
Hmmm…
These are abit too obvious:
Iraq,
Iran,
Saudi Arabia,
Syria,
Libia,
Jordan,
Egypt,
Yemen,
But it could be:
US,
France,
Australia,
Israel,
Germany,
Holland,
England,
Sweden…
I could go on…
But anywhere there are milk-sheiks and braindead sheep.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 4:27 pm
There’s no finer theatre than watching the left frothing at the mouth.
Peanuts? Popcorn? Super size me some dhimmification.
Same ‘ol lefty attempt to define the limits of politics…
Agree with their mateys or you’re a
bigot/racist/capitalist running dog.
What’s to fear from a little referendum, comrades.
Vote:Result possibly a worry, is it?
No confidence in those unreliable prols, perhaps?
November 1st, 2006 at 4:29 pm
Hmmm…
These are abit too obvious:
Iraq,
Iran,
Saudi Arabia,
Syria,
Libia,
Jordan,
Egypt,
Yemen,
But it could be:
US,
France,
Australia,
Israel,
Germany,
Holland,
England,
Sweden…
I could go on…
But anywhere there are milk-sheiks and braindead sheep.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 4:40 pm
Fred, the main debate seems to be are you so stupid that you should just be ignored or not.
You must be so proud!
xxx
S
(ps Assalamu alaikum)
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 4:47 pm
Back to the original post So whats the answer? Give them money Lots of money? Give them jobs What jobs? Can they work? Do they want to work? Kick the French out and let the Muslims establish an Islamic state? Come on lets be having the answers.Or maybe just maybe there is another answer that dares not speak its name……..
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 5:06 pm
Vson said:
“However your credibility along with Simon G suffers when you try to play “holier than thou ” and then have a crack at others who have a faith of some description.”
Vson, I have not “had a crack” at others for having a religious faith, and I ask you to back up your claim or withdraw it. Thank you.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 5:40 pm
Give everyone, of whatever race or creed a fair deal gd?
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 7:11 pm
From the Washington Post:
‘As the Muslim populations — and their level of cultural and religious assertiveness — expand, European geography will be “reclaimed” for Islam. Europe will become pockmarked with “little Fallujahs” that effectively will be impenetrable by anything much short of a U.S. Marine division.
Not only will Islamic cultural aggression against a seemingly passive and apologetic indigenous population increase, but the zone of safety and support for the actual terrorists will expand as well.
If the current leaders of Europe do not respond to the Islamist threat boldly and effectively, the common European people might decide to defend their culture as vigilantes. In that case, Europe again will become a bloody urban battleground.
This would be a temporary tragedy for liberal principles of governance, but at least would secure Europe from Muslim domination over the next half-century.
The harm of a vigilante effort against the radical Islamists can be mitigated, if not avoided, if the governments themselves will lead the struggle for European cultural survival’.
Please Hulun, keep those Muzzie immigrants coming.
Vote:November 1st, 2006 at 8:47 pm
Oh woe is me, I see there’s a try hard that doesn’t like ‘Hulun’…
Just trying to be true to her personal pronunciation preferences, pal, in fawning
Vote:respect of her Anglo cultural sensitivities.
At first I though…. ‘Hln?…. no vowels there’, then I got the slightest hint of a desperate ‘u’.
She musta bought a vowel somewhere.
Go and have a beer and a Laxette, you’re eventually going to be a long time dead.
November 2nd, 2006 at 1:46 am
Fred,
That’s from the Washington Times, not the Post. Significant difference.
Second, it’s from an opinion column, so it might as well be a blog comment for all its attachment to reality.
Also, why do you keep repeating your same point when no one has bothered to engage your delusions?
Vote:November 2nd, 2006 at 3:16 am
Sonic: I thought the post was on the French riots. So why is it you always trash the US. You have good people and bad people in all societies. Hand them a gun and give them a license to kill, What do you think they are going to do? If you have seen the news lately 3 soldiers have pleaded guilty to crimes in Iraq. Others have been sentenced or are still being investigated. As for the French riots very complex issue, needs alot of government interaction or…we could just send in the Marines.(hehe)
Vote:November 3rd, 2006 at 10:36 am
Not that anyone’s paying much attention to this thread, but I thought I’d mention these:
from the Economist…
When the riots started, they were treated in some quarters as a “suburban intifada”. “Jihad comes home”, ran one newspaper headline. Some American observers regarded the uprising as further proof of Europe’s inability to control the spread of radical Islam. … A report into the riots by the French Renseignements Généraux, the domestic intelligence-gathering service, however, found the opposite. Islamists had “no role in setting off the violence or in fanning it,” it concluded. Clichy’s mayor agrees. “I completely reject the idea that the riots were an Islamist plot,” he says. “During the rioting I never heard of a young man burning a car in the name of Allah; but I heard of plenty of Muslims saying, ‘go home in the name of Allah’.” Instead, the intelligence officers reckoned, the rioting was a “popular revolt” provoked by a toxic concentration of social problems: joblessness, poverty, illegal immigration, organised crime, family breakdown and a lack of parental authority. France had been so preoccupied with watching Islamic radicals, said the report, that it had neglected the wider problems in its banlieues.
from Dissent:
Vote:Media often made it appear that everyone detained in last fall’s violence was North African, but recent studies complicate the picture. A study of the Yvelines suburb near Paris showed that 33 percent of those questioned by authorities were “European” in origin, 35.5 percent were North African, and 28.9 percent African.
November 3rd, 2006 at 11:16 am
MCMC
Stop confusing people with information! Minds are made up, and facts just don’t help at all. Especially facts on topic, from France. That’s just not fair.
Vote:November 3rd, 2006 at 12:21 pm
Perhaps you’d like to engage the Aust. perspective….where NZ’s la la land seems so far away.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20690632-25717,00.html
Vote: