Idiotic Aussie Flag ban
January 23rd, 2007 at 1:20 pm by David FarrarAnd people wonder why you get a backlash sometimes. Organisers of the Australian Big Day Out have backed down on their plans to ban the Australian Flag in case it upset minorities.
John Howard and I think at last count all eight Labor Premiers condemned the idea of the Australian Flag being banned within Australia.
I mean what were the organisers thinking? If there is a problem with flag waving yoboos then deal with the yoboos harshly. But banning the flag is exactly what leads to a greater backlash from people.
Related posts:
- The flag
- Another reason to change the flag
- The Tino Rangatiratanga flag
- Herald calls for flag change
January 23rd, 2007 at 3:39 pm
“If there is a problem with flag waving yoboos then deal with the yoboos harshly.”
Not been to many rock concerts in your time, have you DPF? Dealing with any chunk of an audience “harshly” is rather difficult unless you’ve got as many policemen as audience members. Security at those kind of events is basically about cordoning off certain areas and checking what people are carrying in at the door. Beyond that, there’s not much chance of success.
It was a dumb thing to say the way it was said – but really, the sentiment is fine after the accounts of what happened last year. It just needed to be presented better – as an overall, no-exceptions flag ban rather than a specifically australian one. Even if it was the munters with the Aussie flags causing all the trouble, the “we’re being fair and equitable” spin really needs to be put on there to avoid the kind of pompous, fatuous crap that this particular blurt has prompted…
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 3:46 pm
I understand the ban was not so much to avoid upsetting the minorities (as you say) but to avoid the thugs who get carried away. Again, people are pointing the finger at the wrong crowd. It’s the idiotic thugs that should be under the hammer, not the organisers. Similar scenario with the Seattle airport Christmas tree debacle. Many blamed the airport management, but they, like the BDO organisers, were put in the precarious position by the actual offending party.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Totally agree with err. They would have been much better off having a total ban on all banners & signs including flags and anything else they considered objectionable. In a case like this you do what works.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 4:40 pm
And nevermind that it wasn’t actually a ban anyway.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 4:42 pm
“Organisers of the Australian Big Day Out have backed down on their plans to ban the Australian Flag in case it upset minorities.”
The article linked to does not say that they wanted to ban the flag for this reason, nor have any of the other articles I have read on the subject.
The reason, clearly stated in the article linked to, is that drunken, racist, Australian munters have taken to using the flag as “gang colours” used to intimidate others and disguise their violently obnoxious behaviour as patriotism.
So, one must wonder whether you did not actually read the article you linked to; read it but didn’t understand it; or read it, understood it and willfully misrepresented it, and the issue as a whole.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 4:43 pm
Yes lets punish the innocent and reward the guilty.Bad bastards love the Socialists and hate the Right. Why Because the Socialists make it so easy for them. Give them all the excuses in the world.Wring their hands about how unfair the world is. We on the Right say Stuff the bad bastards. Punish them NOT the innocent citizens. The Left is all about appeasement giving in Taking the easy way out. Gutless mindless acceptance of bad and evil.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 4:57 pm
David, you’re a smart guy but this sort of post just exacerbates the problem. You need to be asking why the media (now including yourself) are deliberately misrepresenting the BDO organiser’s message?
As Span and mjh have pointed out – what ban?
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 5:11 pm
No doubt the flag banners were “urban liberals”…
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 5:37 pm
Just pathetic,the minorities, and we know who they are,something to do with islam i believe.
It is not right for the minorities to even have a say in regards to who and where the National flags can be flung, if they dont want them in their mosques ,so be it, we would not complain.
Damn liberals are causing so much strife and hatred.
Unless something is done fast, we will no longer be able to have christmas,easter,or have the crucifix displayed on our churches.
If the minorities are not happy, bag em up and send em back to where thay came, those blighters are privileged to be in a western country.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 5:48 pm
Clearly NuffseNuff, with his talkback radio response, hasn’t read a damn thing on the issue. Doesn’t take much for the bigots to appear out of the woodwork these days.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Here’s a funny bit on global diversity
Vote:https://www.cruxy.com/info/7243
what, shall we give up our flag for the sake of a mad poet?
37:36
January 23rd, 2007 at 6:02 pm
What a beautiful post, NuffseNuff. One of the most beautiful combinations of ignorance, bigotry, hysteria and illiteracy I’ve seen in a long time.
“Clearly NuffseNuff, with his talkback radio response, hasn’t read a damn thing on the issue.”
… and reading DPF’s lazy and fallacious summation of the matter wouldn’t have done anything to enlighten him.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 6:25 pm
The language of the promoter where he talked of not tolerating the flag was reasonably interpreted as banning it.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 6:28 pm
“….those blighters are privileged to be in a western country.”
Use of the word blighters makes me think this is someone trolling, trying to sound like a genuine ‘rightwing bigot’. Do you ever get the feeling some lefties find you enough of a threat that they’d stoop to this sort of crap so they could tar all people making comments here with the “bigot” brush David?
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 7:01 pm
The organiser is of the auto-forelock tugging luuvy left, especially when around resident ethnics ….but he got dealt to, didn’t he.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 7:35 pm
And nowhere was it ever stated that they were going to ban it in case it upset minorities. You simply made that up David. The only idiotic people are people such as yourself and the Murdoch press and pollies who never let an opportunity go by to rabbit on about supposed political correctness meanwhile completely misinterpreting what was said and the intent of the organisers.
Far from wanting to not upset minorities they are showing a duty of care to those attending the event that none of you seem remotely concerned about.
Anyone who was at the BDO in Sydney last year post Cronulla knows exactly what this is about.
AndrewG sums up the atmosphere pretty well. It simply wasn’t an issue in Auckland. It’s a music festival for fucks sakes – what kind of loser teenager feels the need to wrap themselves up in the flag on such an occasion. It’s tragic and a sad reflection on the sort of country this is becoming under John Howard.
http://andrewg.tv/blog/index.php/big-big-day-out-post/
“There was a lot of weirdness going on at Sydney BDO. For the first time ever I was hesitant to walk around. I’ve never not been able to just walk around a BDO before, checking out bands. Sydney was different.
The main thing I got from the crowd was that there was a large, dare I say it, “Cronulla” style element. Australia Day, Beer, Yobs in board shorts yelling things. Flags. Lots of “Aussie Pride” tattoos. Scary. There were fights there. I’ve never ever seen a fight at a Big Day Out. Why would you want to fight at a day like that? All the bands and food and hot girls/guys you’ve ever wanted in once place at once, and you have to biff? Why??
My dear friend Ali saw a poor guy get his lights viciously punched out because he refused to ‘KISS THE FLAG’ draped around the shoulders of some pissed animal who was travelling in a cowardly pack of other yobs. This is Sydney? Kiss the flag or I’ll hit you? Please explain to me how that works? I want to know. I really do. Post below and let me know, help me understand it, please.
Sydney, you’re letting the promoters who work so fucking hard to make this show happen each year down, you’re letting the bands that came out to be a part of it down, and most of all, you’re letting your country down. This is not how Australia needs to be represented to the world, and that’s what’s happening more and more internationally as far as how we’re perceived.”
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 7:47 pm
Fuck off jamesy …ethnics and their multi- cultural apologists don’t get to determine where the Australian flag is flown/used.
Check out the kids at BDO…you might see the odd flag.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 8:08 pm
You have a problem with ethnic people Fred?
Clearly Ken West is on the right track. There are alot of arseholes out there and I suspect none of them have ever been near a BDO and if they did they would be way out of there comfort zone.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 8:12 pm
I have a problem with non- assimilating ethnics jamesy….just like the rest of the population of Ausralia
Oh yeah, and fuck off.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 8:28 pm
More tragic news for non-assimilating ethnics jamesy….
Hot from the Daily Telegraph…
“PRIME Minister John Howard officially scrapped multiculturalism today as he sacked Immigration Minister Amanda Vanstone and renamed her old department.
The trouble-plagued Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs (DIMA) will now be known as the Department of Immigration and Citizenship”.
Howard just gets better.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 8:36 pm
I wouldn’t waste your time with Fred, jamesdean. Because…well I don’t really need to explain. A true plonker.
I haven’t spent a lot of time in Aust, but a bit concerning to hear how things are turning out. I was hoping that Cronulla debacle was a one-off, and I’m wary all sides share the blame. But this apparent growth in “Aussie Pride” (tats etc)…more like “Aussie Shame”.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 8:40 pm
One can be appealled by the actions of some yobbos who do use the flag inapproriately yet still think it is insane to try and ban or discourage the flag. It is bound to backfire.
Also while there have been some reports of problems in 2006, it is very far from apparent that it was widespread.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 9:17 pm
In both Australia and NZ we have become a bit precious about minorities. These people who come here should realise they are moving to another culture and not the other way round. If they choose not to integrate they should pack their bags and go home. The irony is many are coming from countries where there is no way I would never be accepted if I chose to go and live there, due to colour of my skin.
By the way I am an educated, liberally minded urban dweller, so don’t call me redneck!
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 9:34 pm
“One can be appealled by the actions of some yobbos who do use the flag inapproriately yet still think it is insane to try and ban or discourage the flag. It is bound to backfire.”
Not been to too many rock concerts in your time, have you DPF? Generally speaking I don’t think you’d find a BDO audience as lustingly attached to their flags as the average National Party member… Given a choice between losing the flag or missing out on the one-off musical occasion that is the BDO I think most wouldn’t give it a second thought.
The organisers put a lot of their effort and energy into creating an event for people to see, and if one of their conditions is “No flags please, we didn’t like what you did with them last year” then there’s obviously a choice – they can start their own flags-allowed festival and convince Tool, the Killers, Muse etc etc to come along and play it it, or they can leave the flag at home. I think the latter might be easier.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Not “both Aust.and NZ” Mark…NZ is the defeated socialist backwater of socially engineered hand wringers.
Which is why I left.
Aust, on the other hand, just upped its minimum residency before citizenship to 4 years…alas, there’s going to be some deportation tears before bedtime for culturally inappropriate immigrants…tragic, eh.
There’s hot goss of it going to 6.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 9:56 pm
Don’t worry Sean, I’m not taking Fred seriously. Anyone who thinks Howard is just getting better is clearly not on the same planet as most Australians.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 10:35 pm
Which I guess is why he’s been elected Prime Minister so many times, whilst the handwringers remain in opposition…tough bickies I huh…
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 10:59 pm
Fred is right,so is markravingbark,
Mr Howard is good for Australia, and he will not let these brainwashed immigrants from the middle east walk all over Aussie culture, Good On Him, and i hope the day comes when we have a likeminded PM in this country.
There is nothing wrong with “multiculture” as long as it conforms to the culture,beliefs and laws of the country that has accepted these backward and often barbaric ideologies, and im sick of all you dogooders and liberalists defending these immigrants who are trying to destroy democracy, or is that your aim as well,dogooders?.
Oh and B4 U say “what is Aussie culture”, its a great culture of fun freedom,BBQ prawns,beers,and the good life,ANZAC etc,,,and you want sharia law?,,you`ll never get it!!!, move to the middle east all you libs & dogooder wingers.
Vote:January 23rd, 2007 at 11:04 pm
Fred-I hadn’t realised how sensible Australia had become on immigration policy. Don’t like Howard on most matters, but full credit to him for his visionary immigration policy.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:13 am
Hey Fred, since when do you speak for Australians?
The migration changes you allude to are majorly over-sold so that they appeal to xenophobes. Fact is, Australia will welcome in more migrants this year compared with last and into the future – there’s a skills shortage and it turns out lots of people from outside of Australia are more skilled than the resident mob.
DPF you’ve misrepresented the BDO position which I’m sure you now understand. Howard and co are loving this free hit and although the BDO promoters might have handled this better, they’re rightly concerned by the over zealous bigots who pretend to be patriots.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 8:40 am
“Not “both Aust.and NZ” Mark…NZ is the defeated socialist backwater of socially engineered hand wringers.
Which is why I left”
A decision that makes us all weep every day.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 9:46 am
Watch those roaches scuttle in the light.
Howard will win the next election…#5…to be fought on the “non-assimilating ethnic” issue.
Dave gets a prescient political heads up, yet again.
The NZ left will barely be able to contain itself…more bliss.
Slow Paul misses the point…
“Fact is, Australia will welcome in more migrants this year compared with last and into the future – there’s a skills shortage and it turns out lots of people from outside of Australia are more skilled than the resident mob”.
Concentrate matey, the problem developing in Australia that is beginning to horrify much of the country are the numbers of sneering non-assimilating immigrants… not immigrants as such, you moron.
The country will fix that.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 9:54 am
Could you not think about this before throwing out the raw meat, David?
What West said was that at last year’s BDO the Aussie flag was used as “gang colours” and he wouldn’t stand for it. What they should have done, of course, was asked people not to bring flags or banners of any sort on safety grounds. So they blew it.
But let’s look at the context: At last year’s Sydney BDO, shortly after Cronulla, there were drunken oafs draped in the flag wandering around bullying people, and especially people who didn’t have white skin. There are multiple accounts of the kiss-the-flag-or-cop-a-beating thing, including one in the thread above. Several of our readers reported the threatening atmosphere created by these “patriots”. It wasn’t isolated behaviour.
When you are a promoter with a duty of care to 50,000 mostly intoxicated people, including teenagers, on a confined site, this is utter poison. If there’s a riot and/or someone is badly hurt it’s not John Howard the press will be blaming. The idea that this can be magically policed on site is ludicrous. Crowds don’t work that way. If you’re reponsible for safety, you reduce risk.
Furthermore, this kind of conduct has no part in the BDO tradition. This is a music festival for music fans and, as The Age’s blogger observed, music fans would like their music festival back please.
And apart from anything, West appears to have been more attuned to to the Australian Flag Protocol than his opportunistic critics:
“The Australian National Flag should be displayed only in a manner befitting the national emblem. It should not be subjected to indignity… It should always be flown aloft and free and should not be allowed to fall or lie upon the ground. When the Australian National Flag is raised or lowered, or when it is carried past in a parade or review, all present should face the Flag, men should remove their hats and all should remain silent. Those in uniform should salute.”
http://www.australianflag.org.au/protocol.php
Apparently, John Howard believes that oafs spewing down their flags do it credit. Is it shame for peaceable Aussies who just felt like marking Australia Day? Of course. That’s called spoiling it for everyone …
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 10:25 am
Sorry Russ…the decision’s been made above your payscale.
BDO has backed down.
Apparently the pollies are pissed….news is it will be refused used of any State or Federal govt. venue in Sydney if Kenny tries this bit of slimy lefty politics on again.
I know, I know…in principle neither you nor Hulun are going to like it.
Vote:Some counselling …perhaps?
January 24th, 2007 at 10:41 am
“sneering non-assimilating immigrants”
Yes they all walk about sneering, all the time, they have no other facial expression except sneers, no smiles, no frowns just sneers.
Fred, come back home, your country needs you.
We have no decent stand up comics left.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 10:45 am
Sorry Russ…the decision’s been made above your payscale.
BDO has backed down.
From a “ban” that never existed in the first place. But don’t let that stop you …
Apparently the pollies are pissed….news is it will be refused used of any State or Federal govt. venue in Sydney if Kenny tries this bit of slimy lefty politics on again.
I know, I know…in principle neither you nor Hulun are going to like it.
So you’re all in favour of governments overtly threatening to ruin private businesses whose attitudes they don’t like? Okay …
To be honest, I wouldn’t be surprised if Lees and West decide to take a break from the BDO next year. That would be a real shame for actual music fans who look forward to it every year, but who needs to be a political football for someone else’s agenda?
Look at your own contribution here: no hint of actually understanding the practical issues faced by the promoter, but lots of slime about “ethnics”.
News flash: the people who got heavied and beaten up last year were “assimilating” – they paid their money to go to a festival. The problem was “patriots” who decided that their skin colour or their refusal to be bullied disqualified them from being Australian.
Perhaps you and all the other boofheads could have your own festival next year and march around insulting each other – and leave the music festival to us music fans. That would be a fucking godsend.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 11:21 am
Sony tells a another fib by ommission …
He has access to the quoted wisdom of Sheik Hilly and numerous other assimilating imams in Australia.
Check it out and report back.
But not worry….the Aussies are on it.
The 5th best thing about living in Aust. is the total irrelevancy of the NZ left.
Vote:Anyone considering the move?
Don’t hesitate.
January 24th, 2007 at 11:25 am
I think you are wasting your time with Fred Russell, he would be one of the thugs demanding that anyone brown skinned swear allegiance to the flag or be beaten up. He sounds like he is dreaming of another Crunella.
Fred, don’t hurry home mate.
xxx
S
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 11:25 am
“A decision that makes us all weep every day.”
You deranged collectivist cretin.. you are nobody to be talking for the whole of NZ. Speak for yourself you ignorant half educated ill mannered brain damaged little socialist dickie licker..
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 11:39 am
We love you too RB.
xxx
S
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 11:51 am
With your apparent inability to even start to think of yourself as an individual you’re a perfect example of the kind of sponge brained idiot that throughout history has supported big government and bigger government without ever questioning the objectives or the outcomes..
That such robotic collectivist state worshipping toadies as you exist in profusion in NZ is a sad comment on the education process, the state of society and a destructive blight on any democratic system.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 11:52 am
Fred, you’re not really Pauline Hanson by any chance are you?
I suspect you’ll find fewer welcoming arms in Australia than you anticipate but hey, I wish you the best of luck and somehow believe you’ll find friends even if it is in the back of a Paddy wagon.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Typical Bolshevik strategies on display. Because Fred dares question socialist multiculturalist mantras, to Paul and the little one dimensional Stalinist weasel Sonic, he’s a thug who should be thrown into a paddy wagon. Where’s your tolerance for freedom of expression and diversity of opinion you jack booted Sovietized socialist drones??
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
I think our friend RB got out of bed on the wrong side this morning.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
“Fred, come back home, your country needs you.
We have no decent stand up comics left.”
That hurts. I do standup comedy. And I thought I was pretty good. I don’t however go in for the racial bashing that seems to prevalent here. So maybe that’s the key to success? An easy to pronounce mono-syllabic moniker and a distrust of all things brown.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Forget that tired old shit.. just deal with the issue of freedom of expression.. should Fred be punished for expressing views that challenge accepted socialist doctrine or not??
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
I think you are wasting your time with Fred Russell …
No worries. Arguing with the likes of Fred doesn’t exactly require a major intellectual commitment.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
True enough Russell, true enough.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
“Forget that tired old shit.. just deal with the issue of freedom of expression.. should Fred be punished for expressing views that challenge accepted socialist doctrine or not??”
Should foreigners be punished for being foreigners?
I’m not sure if outsmarting is counted as punishing in your world, but if it is then sure, yeah why not.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Man. you socialists are so intolerant of opposing opinion.. WTF does the “likes of fred” mean..??? I’ll tell you.. its someone who dares to disagree with socialist sermonising and pontificating and propaganda and therefore should be sent to the gulags for it.. what a dark cloud you Sovietised socialist people have cast upon the age old traditions that underpinned freedom in western society, namely democracy and its most essential component, freedom of expression.. So sad to see NZ afflicted in this way..
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
Redbaiter, “tolerance”, that’s ironic yeah?
Which “socialist multicultural mantra” was Fred questioning again – is there one that entitles goons to harass and bash those who don’t like Kylie Minogue, wear RM Williams or drink piss-weak Fosters?
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
Why can’t you dodging totalitarians answer a simple question??
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Forget that tired old shit.. just deal with the issue of freedom of expression.. should Fred be punished for expressing views that challenge accepted socialist doctrine or not??
Oh alright, while I wait for my lunch to cook …
Shouldn’t you seek help for that laughable victim mentality, Redbaiter? You vommy up the same tawdry items of abuse every time you post, but someone dares to argue with one of your sorry little chums (Fred only thinks he’s Australian …) you’re complaining that he’s being “punished”.
Do you realise how tragically weak that is? If you can’t bear a standard reality-based argument, crawl back to your bedroom and work up another fantasy to keep you going. Either that or try not to be such a dick.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
Russell, I’m sure a man of your blog experience has realised that there are a number here who see “argument” and “debate” as merely a means to abuse and berate. The amount of personal attacks here is laughable. Whilst we on the left may suffer through the “no sense of humour tag” you cannot call us uncivilised.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
“Man. you socialists are so intolerant of opposing opinion”
Yes we should all learn from you open-mindedness and forbearance mate.
You are an inspiration to us all!
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
Russell, you might prefer to put your mind into a socialist strait jacket, but try not to force everyone else to do the same. Just answer the simple question.. should Fred, (as you and other sovietized socialists on here have implied), be punished for saying what he is saying? Should he be called names, be deemed an outcast, be sneered at, described as subhuman, silenced by shame and hate and intolerance, or should he be debated with facts and reason??
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
should Fred, (as you and other sovietized socialists on here have implied), be punished for saying what he is saying? Should he be called names, be deemed an outcast, be sneered at, described as subhuman, silenced by shame and hate and intolerance, or should he be debated with facts and reason??
Bearing in mind your customary output, I feel bound to ask whether you’re familiar with the concept of irony.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
“Should he be called names..or should he be debated with facts and reason”
There we stand, shamed again by the master of fair and balanced commentating…
I hate to engage with this, but where did anyone call for anyone to be ‘punished’?
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
On the ever so slightly amused side, RedBaiter has at least succeeded to do what his name suggests.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
“you cannot call us uncivilised”
Good God, what a stark and astonishing misrepresntation that is.. throughout recent history, the big government left have proven time and time again what a sad sick barbaric lot they are.. just read any book written by any survivor of any of the multitude of attempts at mass murder and political cleansing. Any civilized person would be sickened at the atrocities these megalomaniacss and dictators and totalitarians have committed.. and in many cases, the perpetrators of those mass murders and genocidal acts are still revered as heros by the left today..
…and here you are today, attempting the same old same old strategies, tempered only by the reasoning that you must leave the killing and the imprisonment and the “re-education camps” until you have absolute total power, and until then it is best just to socially ostracise the non-believers, the trouble makers, the non-conformists..
Saddest of all, you cannot see the viciousness that is in you… Your hyena like attacks on Fred show this to be true..
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
“On the ever so slightly amused side, RedBaiter has at least succeeded to do what his name suggests”
If his name was laughing stock you might well have a point there!
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Ok kids – give your little e-penis’s a rest for a while will ya’s.
Didn’t your mummies ever tell you what would happen if you flogged the rod to much?
A question for you all –
Do you think that an immigrant should assimilate to the mores of the country they have immigrated to?
Or
should they be free to continue to live within the mores of where they have emigrated from?
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
Almost every comment Sonic writes here is cloaked in the psychological proteCtion offered by the delusional herd mentality.. in his mind, he’s part of the herd and he’s speaking for the herd and he’s safe within the herd and the herd are in control and you just better not mess with the herd man or you’ll suffer…. I don’t call him brain damaged as an insult, its my honest opinion of his mental state. Leftists are almost all completely deranged..
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
Listen carefully Russ, the sound you can just hear is the majority of the Aust. population
instructing you to go and root your boot.
It’s over, the left lost.
Vote:Better luck with the PC slime next time.
January 24th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
It’s over, the left lost.
Lost … what, exactly?
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
Redbaiter, I’d advise you to take a chill pill, for the sake of your blood pressure, if this wasn’t so funny to read!
So is this another example of those losing the argument changing the topic to something they can win at, namely flaming?
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
ChickenLittle, most societies tolerate a degree of cultural diversity and don’t require new migrants to reject in entirety their previous cultural values. It’s not quite so stark an issue as you present.
The specific problem in Australia at present is both a conflict of values, often overstated by both sides for political advantage, and a conflict of peoples – the Cronulla riots were clear evidence of the latter and because it is impossible and impractical to know which party was most sinned against, the BDO organisers (back to the specific issue) suggested that the Australian flag not be bought to the concert.
I understand what they were trying to avoid, though suspect they were unlikely to achieve their aim, as I’ve seen precisely the behaviour that they’re concerned about – I’ve seen it three times in 12 months; once last Australia Day in Coogee, once at the SCG and once at a pub in inner Sydney – I’m sure there’s examples of idiots on the other side of this dispute, but I’ve not personally seen it.
Unsurprisingly, some (not all) of the people who’re upset about the BDO organisers actions are also the ones who’re not-so-subtley advocating some sort of reinstatement of the White Australia policy – fortunately they’re a minority (and will remain so even if Fred’s friends head this way).
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
“Redbaiter, I’d advise you to take a chill pill,’
Fuck off you patronising ill mannered barbarian fool.. your superficial perceptions concerning my moods are as fucked up as any leftist’s usual attempts at situational analysis.. you have the blind arrogance and hypocrisy to accuse others of flaming when your post does nothing but cast judgement concerning the approach of another poster and adds absolutely zero to the discussion.. get outta here with your bigoted time wasting immature shit you child..
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
Yea stop it with the ” bigoted time wasting immature shit” that adds “absolutely zero to the discussion” span.
Don’t you know RB has a copyright on that.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
Why don’t you just answer the question drone..
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Why don’t you just answer the question drone.
Redbaiter, could I ask the same? What have the ‘left’ ‘lost’, in this instance?
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
What this ultimately comes down to is a private enterprise (BDO) wanting to make a call on ‘appropriateness’. I would have thought that you righties would be all for freedom in that regard. Howard wading in and saying no no no smells a bit of what you people rage against – Government intervention.
Vote:Cake, eating it anyone?
January 24th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
Its lack of education coupled with inferior intelligence that makes the left so habitually deficient in critical thinking. There’s a big difference between expressing an opinion as Howard did and legislation. One is free speech, the other is “government intervention”. That you apparently can’t appreciate the simplicity of this equation David is so typical of the socialist’s greyed out mind.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Seriously right, I don’t mean to lower myself to petty name calling but who writes: “Its lack of education coupled with inferior intelligence that makes the left so habitually deficient in critical thinking.”?
Either you’re a first year university student with an overwhelming desire to flout your vocab, or a script writer from Dawson’s Creek.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
I guess the script from ‘Dawson’s Creek’, (which I assume is one of those tacky unintelligent soap operas targetting “urban liberals”) is something you’d undoubtedly be familiar with David. As desperately unrealistic as it probbaly is, its most likely still the closest you’ll ever come to reality. Include the obligatory glowing references to socialist doctrine that most mainstream entertainment sources do does it? Fly any Australian flags do they?
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Alright, I’m a bit bored with baiting the ‘baiter now, so a couple of serious observations.
1. I suppose I shouldn’t be, but I’m amazed at the way that Redbaiter, Fred et al, are prepared to cheer on the spectacle of big government making explicit threats against a commercial businessman for attitude crimes.
2. One of our regular readers, Don Christie, owns a successful Wellington IT business. He sponsored an IT conference in Sydney, only to have it marred by what he describes as “abuse, racism and harassment” directed at other delegates by some of those who attended. He’ll be thinking carefully about future support, even though he thinks Sydney is a great city. Australia wouldn’t want this kind of thing to become too commonplace.
http://publicaddress.net/system/topic,179,hard_news_draped_in_their_flag.sm?p=6143#post6143
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Oz is part of the Coalition Of The Willing, so maybe they do want this sort of thing to become commonplace…
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
Russell, as I know you and others know, Sydney is a great city and one where, mostly, multiculturalism thrives. Where I work, we have a far greater mix of different ethnicities than I ever experienced in NZ. There’s also numerous communities in Sydney that have created fantastic cultural hubs that are as far from ghettos as you can get – Greek, Portugues, Turkish, Italian… Cabramatta is not nearly as scarey as is made out and neither is Bankstown.
There is a backlash against migration, it’s misinformed and overstated. Amazingly, while Howard indulges in dog whistle politics he is also opening new migration agencies in many of the very countries that his supporters are so fearful of.
I suspect that the advantages of living in Australia will continue to appeal even if Howard’s reelected (which is far from a sure thing despite Fred’s prognostications).
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
“makes me think this is someone trolling, trying to sound like a genuine ‘rightwing bigot’. Do you ever get the feeling some lefties find you enough of a threat that they’d stoop to this sort of crap so they could tar all people making comments here with the “bigot” brush David?”
Could this explain Redbaiter & Fred? Surely no-one could be that oblivious that they accuse everyone else of what they practise?
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
“shamed again by the master of fair and balanced commentating…”
I’ve never claimed to be fair and balanced.. the left’s constant need to portray themselves as such when they’re always the most partisan bigots (see AL above) is one of their most galling mannerisms..
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
Is AL me?
What was bigoted about that? I was just wondering if you might be having us on. Still am.
I wasn’t making sweeping pronouncements about “the right” based on your statements or anything.
I wasn’t saying anything like: “Fuck off jamesy …ethnics and their multi- cultural apologists don’t get to determine where the Australian flag is flown/used.”
Also.. I wasn’t claiming to be fair & balanced.
i was just asking if you’re a troll.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
Redbaiter, are you sure you’re not Xavier in disguise? I remember all too well the AJ Chesswas Conceptual Art Project that wasn’t.
Sonic, I do apologise, to both you and Messr Brown if I have stepped on toes regarding questioning the logic of other commenters. It was never my intention to contribute anything meaningful or salient to this thread, and if I inadvertently have then I have been remiss. (
)
I see DPF has started another thread on this matter and as this one has jumped the shark perhaps that is a good thing.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Quite span, it’s been fun though!
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Check out Don’s posts….
Could he be a lefty voting petal?
Disapproves of Howard no doubt.
Let’s hear about the appalling harassment Don.
What happened?
Vote:Aboriginal grab your arse or one too many Kiwi/sheep jokes?
January 24th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Yep well, its not news that the left see it as “fun” to try and silence their critics with shouts of “bigot” and “racist” .. like the Brownshirted thugs laughing while calling the Jews criminals.. like the Bolsheviks calling their opponents rabble rousers. Fred has a right to his views, and a right to express them. Its a measure of the ongoing degeneration of society at the hands of the socialist that there is apparently no ability amongst them to rationally debate issues that confront their religion.. and to attempt to conceal this lack of ability with pretense to “fun”.. sick man.. real sick..
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Ha ha ha!!
You guys are “lefties” – Fred & Redbaiter, I’m calling your bluff. No question.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
Fred, you mean Paul W perhaps?
I’ve seen spotty little gits who no doubt have very clever nom de plumes attempt to bully others into kissing the Australia flag. Most recently, at a pub in Newtown, their attempt misfired badly and they were very effectively moved along by the locals (if they’d had a Swan’s flag the result would have been quite different). I wonder if they ran home and anonymously vented their rage on a blog?
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
I get it, you just want to avoid the real issue until those who disagree with you get bored and go away right Andrew?? Tired old strategy from a tired old ideology..
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
“Fred has a right to his views, and a right to express them.”
Have his critics not the same right? They seem an awful lot more civil about it & prepared to debate rationally, which Fred is adamantly not prepared to do.
“Its a measure of the ongoing degeneration of society at the hands of the socialist that there is apparently no ability amongst them to rationally debate issues that confront their religion..”
None that you’re prepared to engage with anyway – have you not been paying attention? Oh of course,,, this is how you operate – just as you accuse everyone else.
There’s a word for that.
You two are not a credit to your cause.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
Point out one phrase from you that argues on the issue of whether the flag should be banned or whether Fred has a right to argue his case. If the word you’re alluding to is hypocrisy than you’re as blind to it as anyone.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
“I get it, you just want to avoid the real issue until those who disagree with you get bored and go away right Andrew?? Tired old strategy from a tired old ideology..”
I’m wondering now what I’m doing here – I only came to have a giggle really.
Yes, yes, you’ve succeeded with your tired old strategy, as you say (in fact, your only strategy).
I’m bored & going away. You’re a joke for sure, but a stale one.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
Nah, I mean Don the offended entrepreneur in Russ’s pouting post link.
Howard 4 going on 5….
Vote:Enjoy.
January 24th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
Nah, I mean Don the offended entrepreneur in Russ’s pouting post link.
Howard 4 going on 5….
Vote:Enjoy.
January 24th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
“I only came to have a giggle really.”
Giggle away then you pathetic little bimbo.. I came here to help another poster express his opinion in the face of the usual jackal like behaviour from leftists..
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Redbaiter and Fred sitting in a tree…
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Redbaiter – why don’t you point out one phrase from you or Fred that argues on the issue of whether the flag should be banned?
All either of you’ve done is call anyone you disagree with names – exactly what you accuse others of doing.
So no, nowhere near as blind to it.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
“I came here to help another poster express his opinion in the face of the usual jackal like behaviour from leftists..”
No, you came here to help another poster express his jackal like behaviour.
Come on – point out that one phrase where you guys really did address the flag issue?
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Come ON RB!
Actually, while we’re on the subject – please also point out any phrase where I have abused, or insulted either you or Fred.
Maybe I called you a bimbo or something… nah, I’d never stoop to that – would you?
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
The issue Andrew is the left’s refusal to accept as legitimate any point of view that differs from the “approved” leftist view. (or if you like, the collectivist view)
I have argued consistently on this matter, and expressed my disdain and disgust for the left’s collective attempts to enforce conformity of thought, expression and political belief on the population at large. This is an issue I see as core to so much of what is wrong in NZ society today (and other societies where leftists prevail- ever read “The New Totalitarians”, writtens ome decades ago about Sweden? You should.) You on the other hand have merely posted spiteful and personal comments directed at Redbaiter and or Fred.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
The issue is whether the australian flag should be allowed to the BDO. You appear to be incapable of answering simple questions, but you’re probably just unwilling – can you please, please point out that phrase where you or Fred rationally debated the flag issue?
Your fanbase waits with bated breath.
BTW – there is a suggestion RB that you are more than one poster – care to comment on that?
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
“You on the other hand have merely posted spiteful and personal comments directed at Redbaiter and or Fred.”
Last one for the day – find me one spiteful or personal comment directed at you or Fred please.
Every post either of you has made in this thread has been personal or spiteful.
Bimbo? That dates you. It also makes you a hypocrite of the first order.
See ya.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
andrew…
Vote:No debate andy…
The left was wrong to support Kenny’s act.
The left got rolled politically in Aust. over the matter.
Nothing more to say.
January 24th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
“The issue is whether the australian flag should be allowed to the BDO.”
I agree this was the initial issue, but due to the attempts to denigrate Fred rather than argue with him, it quickly became an issue of leftist totalitarianism, and this is of course tied into the view that the Australian flag should not be displayed becasue it risks offending minorities. Both of these issues are linked, because they are both underpinned by typical leftist PCism and intolerance for dissent.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Regardless of my view on the issue, what is wrong with not being a supporter of en-mass immigration?
When I was on my OE I worked with a silly little liberal Australian ‘girl’, who would rountinely lecture taxi drivers when they put their 5 pence in about what they thought of asylum seekers etc. Specifically she would quote line by line parts of the UN declaration on human rights, usually in a condescending tone to the unfortunate taxi driver. This is what put me off ‘hand wringing liberals’ generally. Many who take liberal views on this type of thing seem have a propensity toward this type of behaviour, a superiority complex disguised as theoretically left wing abstract values.
In fact it is they who are the bigots, becuase they cannot tolerate alternative viewpoints, or understand how in the real world immigraton policy can adversly affect people in their lives.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Redbaiter makes a plea for tolerence, truly a man with no sense of the absurd.
That is why all of us love him!
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
So – let;s see what you are saying, cobbitt. You approve of ignorant taxi drivers spouting their uninformed racist views, but you would deny the right of someone with more compassion to argue with them? Wow….what a wonderful world you must live in, so free…
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
“someone with more compassion”
Vomit…!!!
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
Cobbit, on one issue I’d like to clarify; I’m not a fan of entirely open boarders. I accept that some regulation is required. Unregulated migration risks creating backlashes within the domestic population.
I do however despair that Australia has massively decreased its intake of humanitarian migrants (refugees) while it ramps up the skill migrant scheme – Australia had a proud (and economically beneficial) history of accepting migrant peoples after both WWII and Vietnam but this is now seriously imperiled by the actions of the Howard government (incidentally, a few former Liberal leaders are equally unimpressed).
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 8:07 pm
Get used to it Cobbitt…. or immigrate to a more sophisticated place.
In NZ, “uninformed racist” is meant to close down the almost non existent “debate” on
such things as the politics of Maori privilege, muslim immigration, other non-assimilating ethnic immigrants, immigration numbers, population numbers, educational engineering… etc.
Believe me once you get out of the place and look back in, the politics/media seem like a period piece sheltered workshop.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 8:15 pm
hisself – I would not deny the right of anyone to argue about anything, thats the point. Nothing wrong with arguing an issue. The problem I have is with those who argue in a way which says “you are an uneducated hick, know your place”…and on this issue in particular, many who take the view that immigration should be en-mass tend to take that approach.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
“Believe me once you get out of the place”
You spend your time logging onto NZ websites telling us how terrible we are and how great OZ is.
I’m begining to have my doubts about you Fred, methinks you are getting homesick.
Pity that you have probably burned your bridges by telling friends and family just how much you hate NZ though, makes it a little hard.
a case for compassion methinks.
“Maori privilege, muslim immigration, other non-assimilating ethnic immigrants, immigration numbers”
A little obsessed with a certain subject I see.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
redbaiter, could you please, please just answer some of the questions put your way above, instead of repeatedly attacking those asking them without addressing their points.
eg. andrew has a good point when he requests, in reply to your statement…“You on the other hand have merely posted spiteful and personal comments directed at Redbaiter and or Fred.”
..for you to “find me one spiteful or personal comment directed at you or Fred please”. See, he even says “please”?
But, you ignore the request, as you have ignored other questions above, usually by launching into the sort of personal abuse and invective you find seem to find so offensive coming from others.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
You left out the best bit sony…
“In NZ, “uninformed racist” is meant to close down the almost non existent “debate” on….”
…well, everything from used cars to Huluns hair.
Get out of the country for a while sony, looking in gets to be an unavoidable embarrassment, a time warp that no-one quite gets.
There’s a road to Damascus for every comrade sony. So you have hope.
Remember what Frank Hayden said
“Once you start to see through bullshit then you see through all bullshit”.
That idea is the biggest threat to the NZ left sony.
Yeah, I make my living on the screens so you’ll be wrapped that Fred can post anytime… coz he’s there, an uninformed racist.
But I’m rambling….so back to the Shiraz and horses douvers.
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
This thread is fucking hilarious, I wish I’d checked back sooner!
My favourite bit is the way that Redbaiter keeps shouting at everybody to “debate the issue” with Fred, while anybody attempting to get Fred to actually debate any issues gets told “No debate…Nothing more to say.” when they ask the simplest of questions… Not that it stops Redbaiter insisting that there should be a debate, of course
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 10:50 pm
We keep getting return business, Red.
It’s all a much for the comrades.
So much unapproved dissent….
Vote:January 24th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
errrr…a shiraz “bit” much.
Vote:January 25th, 2007 at 12:24 am
My fave bit is how people like Fred and Redbaiter claim to be persecuted victims, despite the fact that no-one is actually stopping them saying what they like.
Guys, the reason that people back away from you in the real world is not that they are “brainwashed” trust me on that.
(or for RB’s benefit, trust us on that)
Nite all!
Vote:January 25th, 2007 at 9:44 am
They’re what they’d call “lefty” trolls sonic, I’m pretty much convinced of it now.
the flag issue means nothing to them other than an opportunity to flog the same mindless swill, which I now believe is designed to discredit the “right”. For who could really be that stupid?
But on topic & for the record guys, does anyone actually agree with this Ken West guy? I sympathise with his dilemma, but his proposed solution missed the mark by a long shot.
So there you go, if you accept that I am on the “left” Fred & Redbaiter, your whole argument just washed away.
Vote:January 25th, 2007 at 11:29 am
My favourite bit is witnessing dumbfuck leftist bigots like err and Andrew and so many others write here pretending to themselves that they are intelligent and objective adjudicators..
Vote:January 25th, 2007 at 11:50 am
Keep it up Baity, this is a welcome laugh during a dreary office day!
Vote:January 25th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Redbaiter – quote me the bigoted phrases I used, and then I’ll do the same for yours
I’ll play fair & exclude the “dumbfuck leftist bigots” even.
I haven’t even claimed to be a “lefty” – I just offered that you might accept that I am.
Shooting fish in a barrel really.
Vote:January 25th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
“Shooting fish in a barrel really”
Except the fish to not normally volunteer to be in the barrel or paint targets on themselves.
Vote:January 25th, 2007 at 8:15 pm
Redbaiter – quote me the bigoted phrases I used
Ahh yes, trying to get redbaiter to back up his assertions with actual facts and examples. Not likely, I’ve discovered, to get a response, furthering your troll hypothesis, Andrew L.
Vote:January 25th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
And so it ends with the promoter’s summation…
Event promoter Viv Lees …”It was a world-class blunder,” he said.
Vote:January 26th, 2007 at 9:37 am
Its nothing to do with questions manu. I just don’t recognize the need to respond to the demands of every fuckwitted bandwidth wasting leftist moron posting here..
Vote:January 27th, 2007 at 10:50 pm
Id say those muslims kids burning and pissing on a bible in some islamic school in Australia would be a stark reminder of what we are facing, now they are telling us the flag is unacceptable, they can go to hell!, and any red blooded Aussy or Kiwi would say the same!.
You plonkers arguing the contrary are unbelievable idiots, and you multicultural apologists whould be the first to cry if you were threatened by jihadists.
Vote: