You can’t speak personally in your portfolio
February 27th, 2007 at 2:33 pm by David FarrarClark and Peters have already stretched constitutional conventions to their limits by coming up with silly concepts such as being Foreign Minister, yet not being in Cabinet. We saw yesterday the path this leads us to.
It’s one thing for Peters to give personal opinions on non portfolio matters such as compulsory superannuation, but you simply can not have the Minister of Foreign Affairs give “personal opinions” to the media on issues such as Iraq.
Alexander Downer is not meeting with him for Winston’s personal opinion, Neither are the media. They are there because his job is to talk on behalf of the NZ Government.
Peters is of course blaming the media.
As it happens I agree with the views Winston put forward. But they are not the views of the NZ Government, whom he is meant to represent.
No tag for this post.
February 27th, 2007 at 7:05 pm
I think Helen Clark is being a little obtuse in her comments regarding Winston’s statement. Sure, the govt didn’t support the invasion of Iraq, and that’s been their consistent policy, fair enough. But the issue of whether or not an American troop withdrawal will harm Iraq is slightly different – for good or ill, they are there at the moment, and a withdrawal will have definite consequences, in my opinion for the worse.
How hard can it be for her to say something like that? The US and allies are there, and they might as well finish the job, no point making a bad situation worse. But perhaps there are diplomatic reasons for not doing so, would like to think it’s not her animosity towards current US administration that’s the root cause.
Vote:February 27th, 2007 at 7:41 pm
Withdrawing will cause chaos.
Unlike now then?
The invasion of Iraq has been, perhaps, the worst foreign policy blunder of my lifetime. Thank goodness we had a government that kept us out of the invasion, and had the good sense to realise the occupation was going t*ts up and got our people out of there.
Vote:February 27th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
Caught Winnie on the tele this afternoon, he was great havn’t laughed so much in a long time. Does he drink at lunchtime?. He would make a great speaker as he spends most of his time trying to tell others in the house what they can and cannot say anyway. And his withdrawing and apologising to Nick Smith, classic.
Vote:February 27th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
well this really just typifies what we all expected when this gerrymandered arrangement was put in place.. we must look the laughing stock in Canberra and elsewhere…
Vote:February 27th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
“The invasion of Iraq has been, perhaps, the worst foreign policy blunder of my lifetime.”
What on earth is the point of proclaiming that? It is only an expression of pure opinion and therefore worthless as far as any real debate goes, especially given that the person expressing the POV is a one eyed Klark sycophant, an uninformed bigot and a leftist terrorist supporter.
Al Qaida just love the encouragement of treasonist scum like you Sonic, their fifth column in the West. The power obsessed socialists who will embrace any ally if they think there is political advantage in it, even propagandising for the terrorists in Iraq who daily kill innocents by the score in their attempts to destroy democracy and force a withdrawal of the allied forces. There is no end to the left’s moral perversion.
Vote:February 27th, 2007 at 10:38 pm
Canberra, London and Washington are the laughing stock of the international community, and nothing Winnie ejaculates to the press is going to alter the humiliation of the coalition of the willing (and inept).
Vote:February 27th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
Peters must be trying to score a hot date with Condi or even shake Bush’s hand.
Vote:February 27th, 2007 at 11:31 pm
There is a difference between owning repsonsibility for the occupation of Iraq and not doing so.
Our not doing so, does not indicate disinterest in what happens in Iraq. We have chosen to help with reconstruction on occasion.
Some would express our position as, what others do with their responsibilities in a matter beyond international sanction is their affair, but we have concerns for the well being of those in Iraq. Peter’s comments reflect this, even if they are expressed in language which reflects the breadth of the coalition government, rather than just the party which the PM leads.
It’s a MMP coalition complexity thing, something National still struggles with.
Vote:February 27th, 2007 at 11:36 pm
Anyone hoping to win the 2008 election has to reflect on the likely make-up of both the White House and Congress at that time and the following years.
Most Americans regret the decision to occupy Iraq and support for the surge is “mixed”.
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 6:58 am
So the NZ government claims to have *no official position on Iraq today*?
Keep up your comedy routine Winston & Helvis. Canberra and Washington are rolling on the floor laughing and star-billing at Vegas awaits.
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 9:08 am
Sonic … I know you are only parroting what you have been told to parrot but I need to correct you. NZ has had a military presence (Army Lt Col) in Iraq since the invasion.
He will be fascinated to know he doest exist.
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 9:58 am
Flashman speaking of comedy routines what is Nationals position on the current situation in Iraq? Shall I quote John Key for you ‘no comment’, that’s right ‘no comment’. This man wants to be the next PM but has nothing to say on the war in Iraq. I wonder how long the media will let him away with ‘no comment’??
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 10:01 am
One guy, well Ross that certainly proves, er, sorry what?
Oh and I’m interested to know who exactly you think is telling me what to post?
Do tell!
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 10:21 am
Of course the Left would have you believe that had not the US etc “visited” Iraq then all would be peace love and harmony under Uncle Saddam. That the killings tortures etc were all a conspiracy theory. That Uncle Saddams two sons were just a couple of fun loving young Iraqis.
Yes if only Dubya hant embarked on that fateful mission Iraq would now be the shining light of a peaceful tolerant nation that even New Zealand could aspire to.
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 10:34 am
“Most Americans regret the decision to occupy Iraq and support for the surge is “mixed”.”
This may or may not be true, however either way, it is not an argument. That the relentless barrage of left wing media propaganda on Iraq has had an effect on a large part of the uncommitted population is a fact that cannot be denied. For me, I don’t care for the views of the mainstream media, totally discredited for their failure to report objectively on Iraq and for their unceasing promotion of the left wing position. I’m with Dick Cheney-
“Al-Qaeda functions on the basis that they think they can break our will. That’s their fundamental underlying strategy. My statement was that if we adopt the Pelosi (left wing) policy, that we will validate the strategy of Al-Qaeda. I said it, and I meant it. And I’m not backing down. A failed strategy? Let’s see. We didn’t fail when we got rid of Saddam. We didn’t fail when we held elections. We didn’t fail when we got a constitution written. They’re all success stories.”
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_022307/content/01125104.guest.html
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 11:18 am
“This may or may not be true, however either way, it is not an argument”
Exactly, when has the minor point that something is true or false ever worried our chum Mr Baiter?
He operates on a far higher plane than those silly mortals who rely on discredited notions like facts.
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 11:56 am
I guess having crippled comprehension skills is all part of being a leftist Sonic. To anyone possessed of average intelligence and reading ability its clear that my point above is that having a majority agree on a certain viewpoint does not make that view the perfectly correct one or make it above any challenge. History is littered with examples of gross errors being committed on the basis of majority view, with the most stand out example being the German people’s endorsement of Adolf Hitler’s group and their plan to exterminate millions of people.
The problem with so many issues these days is that the left control the mainstream media and use it remorselessly and ruthlessly to promote their position. The public in general is completely misinformed on so many issues. Therefore “majority opinion” today, that straw the left always clutch for, is worth even less than the little it has been traditionally worth.
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
The left dont care about people at all. They are quite happy to let thousands continue to die in Iraq just so Bush can look bad.
Vote:I mean they were so quick to jump into Darfur weerent they?
February 28th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
“They are quite happy to let thousands continue to die in Iraq just so Bush can look bad.”
So what exactly are we not doing that would stop the carnage in Iraq?
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
‘The left don’t care about people at all. They are quite happy to let thousands continue to die in Iraq just so Bush can look bad.’
Gosh Captain Crab amongst all the dribble that flows from this site I think you get today’s award for most moronic utterance.
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
“So what exactly are we not doing that would stop the carnage in Iraq?”
Who is “we”..?? I guess you mean you leftists using the Iraq war as a means to political power. Here’s how you can stop the carnage. STOP SUPPORTING THE SCUM CARRYING OUT THE BUTCHERY. Stop carrying water for Al Qaida.
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Rocket Boy, this is a discussion forum. Its not a place we’re dopey arrogant leftists get to hand out imaginary awards. Got anything to say on the issues??
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
Gosh Mr Bater,limbaugh, a junkie, and your favourite oracle Mr O. Next you’ll be quoting Coulter and Malkin.
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
“this is a discussion forum – Got anything to say on the issues??”
as ever, bedwetter is the pinnacle of irony
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Sonic … just pointing out the unplatable fact that you parroting on that we don’t have a military presence in Iraq and how astute HC is in not having one is when we do just makes her and you look foolish. One, 100, 1,000 … the number doesn’t matter.
Clearly in the Labour lexicon truth is a flexible commodity. Spin rules ok.
and to answer the second, are you having me believe you have never leard of the Beehive Burns Unit aka Brendon Burns, failed Labour candidate for Kaikoura, whose job it is to send out those little ‘guideline’ messages to Labour syncopants to use on talkback’ letters and blogs … but you know that.
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
“One, 100, 1,000 … the number doesn’t matter.”
seriously to argue that one liason officer constitutes a military presence is about as laughable as it gets.
“are you having me believe you have never leard of the Beehive Burns Unit aka Brendon Burns”
Never met the man, never received an email from him.
As for being a “syncopant” er….
As for poor old Mr Baiter he has gone right off of the edge this time. “Stop carrying water for Al Qaida” oh dear oh deary me.
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Rocket Boy, what I think is moronic is the lefts arrogant view that they are the only ones who care.
Perhaps you could repeat your comment to Jordan Carter who only weeks ago had a thread saying National doesnt care about people.
All we hear from the left is criticism but no solutions.
So time to put that mouth of yours to use.
What would you do about Iraq to stop the fighting between Shiite and Shia?
Also the lack of action by the UN over Darfur is probably a greater crime than anything Bush could commit.
Sonic “so what exactly are we not doing etc”
Vote:Well youre not challenging the views of some who are totally biased to get at the truth, wankers such as Fisk spring to mind.
Youre not coming up with any solutions either, but hey you are probably too busy building your Ark for that six storey wall of water coming your way.
February 28th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
Rocket Boy, what I think is moronic is the lefts arrogant view that they are the only ones who care.
Perhaps you could repeat your comment to Jordan Carter who only weeks ago had a thread saying National doesnt care about people.
All we hear from the left is criticism but no solutions.
So time to put that mouth of yours to use.
What would you do about Iraq to stop the fighting between Shiite and Shia?
Also the lack of action by the UN over Darfur is probably a greater crime than anything Bush could commit.
Sonic “so what exactly are we not doing etc”
Vote:Well youre not challenging the views of those on the left who are totally biased to get at the truth. Wankers such as Fisk spring to mind.
Youre not coming up with any solutions either, but hey you are probably too busy building your Ark for that six storey wall of water coming your way.
February 28th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
So is Captain Crab advocating the National’s policy on Iraq in the next election is to send our army in to win the war in Iraq?
Is he personally going to lead those brave lads into battle to show us cowardly, yellow bellied lefties how a real Kiwi blok deals with Johnny Musselman?
Sadly, no.
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
sonic, sorry I missed your solution. Try again.
Vote:To me its one branch of islam versus another.An army from outside is not the answer to me.
What do you think it is?
February 28th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
“sonic, sorry I missed your solution”
I do not see how. You lead an army against the evil ones, it can be made up of who you like.
You are the solution, only your bravery and skill can save Iraq.
On you go, chop, chop!
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
Captain Crab, the only real solutions to the Iraq situation are partition and the establishment of a regional security force.
Partition is certainly not ideal and there may be an extended civil war with a large loss of life but with Muslim against Muslim with in the country it is hard to see any other solution.
A regional security force can only happen once Bush is gone, he has burnt his bridges with Syria and Iran but a new president will be able to take a fresh approach.
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
sonic, it would be helpful if you could tell us who you think “the evil ones” are?
Vote:Whats this toss about national policy and armies.
You just love making shit up dont you.Put words where there arent any.
Oh and sonic,I showed a couple of my staff your comment where you said you felt sorry for them. They laughed and laughed at what a small minded little man you must be to resort to innuendo like that.
Rocket Man-I agree. You have to bring the factions of Islam together and Iran, Syria etc are part of that.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
“Oh and sonic,I showed a couple of my staff your comment where you said you felt sorry for them. They laughed and laughed”
With you or at you?
Ever worry that you are getting a little obsessed?
Why not show them this thread which you open with
“The left dont care about people at all. They are quite happy to let thousands continue to die in Iraq just so Bush can look bad.”
Then I ask,
“So what exactly are we not doing that would stop the carnage in Iraq”
Your answer is.
“What would you do about Iraq to stop the fighting between Shiite and Shia?”
So to summarise, you accuse of us being responsible for the carnage in Iraq (in a war we tried to stop ever happening) because we have not come up with a solution to the problems it caused.
On second thoughts, better not show this thread to your staff, they will be logging onto to seek.com within the hour.
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
sonic, “they laughed and laughed at what a small minded man you are”
Vote:You cant read can you.Its at you.
“what exactly are we not etc’
umm, read below what I said after that comment. Its not “what would you do etc” That comes later.
I think the number and frequency of posts shows you are the one obsessed.
Its just my turn on the roster to show what a idiot you are. Its not that much fun as it is too easy.
Also please show in quotes where I said you (us) were responsible for the carnage.Who is “us” btw?
Anyway, flight to catch, next on the roster please.
Still making stuff up eh. You cant argue anything without resorting to lies.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
“Also please show in quotes where I said you (us) were responsible for the carnage”
What again?
“The left dont care about people at all. They are quite happy to let thousands continue to die in Iraq just so Bush can look bad.”
Poor CC, outsmarted again, he has not quite got the fact that what he posts remains for everyone to see.
“Anyway, flight to catch”
Yes slink away, good idea.
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
Oh, Sonic. If only you would use your power for good and not evil.
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
Oh Sonic, if only you would use your power for good and not evil.
Vote:February 28th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
Helvis should give Winston Baubles a goofy little hat. When he’s got his hat on, he’s speaking officially. When it’s off, he’s speaking in his personal and private capacity.
Something like Benny Hill’s fez would do very nicely.
When Poodles meets his counterparts for top level talks, his arm will naturally go up and down like a monkey on a stick moving his hat around depending on what question he’s answering.
Helvis, of course, requires no such symbolism since, by definition, they always speak officially – and never leak either.
In retirement Helvis and Poodles will move onto Vegas as a comedy double-act.
Vote:April 28th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
gfqm lqbsewgtp tkew wbosqlad gnmtljc hymgq vgchoafpz
Vote:April 28th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
gfqm lqbsewgtp tkew wbosqlad gnmtljc hymgq vgchoafpz
Vote:April 28th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
gfqm lqbsewgtp tkew wbosqlad gnmtljc hymgq vgchoafpz
Vote:July 1st, 2007 at 9:18 am
http://www.fridae.com/common/images/headers/viagra/Order-Viagra.html “>Order Viagra
Vote:July 1st, 2007 at 9:19 am
http://www.fridae.com/common/images/headers/viagra/Order-Viagra.html “>Order Viagra
Vote:July 1st, 2007 at 9:19 am
http://www.fridae.com/common/images/headers/viagra/Order-Viagra.html “>Order Viagra
Vote:July 1st, 2007 at 9:20 am
http://www.fridae.com/common/images/headers/viagra/Order-Viagra.html “>Order Viagra
Vote:July 1st, 2007 at 9:21 am
http://www.fridae.com/common/images/headers/viagra/Order-Viagra.html “>Order Viagra
Vote:July 2nd, 2007 at 2:43 pm
http://www.fridae.com/common/images/headers/strip/Web-Cam-Strip.html “>Web Cam Strip
Vote:July 3rd, 2007 at 8:12 am
http://www.fridae.com/common/images/headers/viagra/Discount-Viagra.html “>Discount Viagra
Vote:July 3rd, 2007 at 8:13 am
http://www.fridae.com/common/images/headers/viagra/Discount-Viagra.html “>Discount Viagra
Vote:July 3rd, 2007 at 8:14 am
http://www.fridae.com/common/images/headers/viagra/Discount-Viagra.html “>Discount Viagra
Vote:July 10th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
sale@mp3.com
Vote:July 10th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
sale@mp3.com
Vote:July 10th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
sale@mp3.com
Vote:July 10th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
sale@mp3.com
Vote:July 10th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
sale@mp3.com
Vote:July 10th, 2007 at 10:28 pm
sale@mp3.com
Vote: