Hell has now frozen over …
March 28th, 2007 at 4:07 pm by David Farrar
A photo and agreement one would have sworn would never happen. Ian Paisley and Gerry Adams agreeing to form a joint Government. Paisley will become First Minister of Northern Ireland and former IRA Chief of Staff Martin McGuinness will be his Deputy First Minister. Incredible. McGuiness has probably ordered Paisley assassinated at some stage in the past. They have both come a long way.
This is a very good day for the Irish. A lot of hard work ahead, but this is truly historic.
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March 29th, 2007 at 7:02 am
When we finally have a united Ireland perhaps 2021 the long march may finally be over.
Vote:March 29th, 2007 at 8:24 am
Incredible to think this has happened in our lifetimes. A precedent for the Israel-Palestine matter perhaps?
Vote:March 29th, 2007 at 9:41 am
Tim
The “our day will comers” have been and will be humming the same tune for many many more years to come. The demographics don;t support your view and nor do the political alliegences in NI. Let’s hope that when they don;t get their way again they don’t revert back to their tendency for violence
You have to wonder if a united Ireland is even going to be an issue as the EU grows. Firtsly there may be a lessening of nationalism as borders become more transparent and perhaps even a growth of sub national regionalism to counter the scale of the EU
Mark
It’s hardly incredible. There has been a relatively effective cessation of fighting for over 10 years and numerous elections. What seems more surprising is how the SDLP have not capitalised on a failed terrorist campaign and allowed SF to then dominate the nationlist agenda.
Vote:March 29th, 2007 at 10:29 am
The whole dynamic of Ireland has changed. It is a wealthy country (It had the same gdp/head as NZ 10 years ago now they are streets ahead) and the entrenched aspects of catholic doctrine have been removed from the laws of Ireland. And the UK has said (John Major) they have neither a selfish nor a strategic interest in maintaining Northern Ireland. So it will happen in my view and I select 2021 being 100 years since the partition.
Vote:March 29th, 2007 at 11:09 am
I’m excited by this. I think things are incredibly positive for Northern Ireland’s future here.
Vote:Can someone tell me though if Paisley is First Minister and McGuinness is Deputy First Minister (which apparently has exactly the same powers as First Minister even though it is supposed to be a lesser title), where does Gerry Adams as head of Sinn Fein fit into the government? I find it confusing. Was the deal reached on the condition that he stand aside?
Does anyone know?
March 29th, 2007 at 11:36 am
“McGuiness has probably ordered Paisley assassinated at some stage in the past.”
That statement dramatically highlights the turnaround. Very inspiring.
Here’s a theory. This political reconciliation coincides with sharply improving economic fortunes of Northern Ireland. Could it be this new prosperity has raised the opportunity cost of political conflict by enough to weaken the political backing for conflict?
Of course, causation could go the other way, or both ways. Or neither.
Vote:March 29th, 2007 at 11:49 am
“McGuiness has probably ordered Paisley assassinated at some stage in the past.”
No he didn’t. Paisley was one of the IRA’s best propaganda weapons in NI and was the man who radicalised Gerry Adams, when he demanded that police remove a tricolour from a Belfast shop window. Paisley said that if the cops didn’t do it, he would, causing Adams to wonder, quite understandably, who the cops were working for. Still, a good sign and bodes well for the future. Oh and Tim, Major never wsaid there was no slefish or strategic interest. He said there was no selfish strategic interest, which is quite a different thing.
Vote:March 29th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
Its difficult not to look at this photo and just see yet another two so called leaders who in reality are just thugs murders and pond life of the lowest order.Not dissimilar to that which other countries like ourselves have to suffer under.
Vote:March 29th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Tim
As I said the population and political alliegences don;t tend to support a united ireland. There has been a theory that the nationalists would breed for a UI, unfortunately that hasn;t happened. Also a much larger proportion of the catholic population supports NI remaining in GB than protestants supporting a UI and that number has been growing since 1998. The same balance exists for non religionists but the trend is opposite.
It is highly unlikely that scenario that a UI will occur as I believe it requires a 2/3s majority in any case.
Vote:March 29th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Seems gd and I are the only pessimists (so far). I too looked at that photo and thought “for all it’s faults politically, at least NZ isn’t being run by any uneasy coalition of madmen who not only were recently shooting one another but also at thousands of innocents”.
If letting war criminals run the country is the only way to achieve peace, then the country’s rooted.
Vote:March 29th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Rex The vigilance of the citizens who wish to remain free is all that stands between them and politicans who strive for the alternative.
Vote:March 29th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
Sorry to introduce a note of scepticism, but I have a nasty feeling that all this hoop-la and rejoicing will be relatively short lived and that historic chasms between the disparate elements in N. Irish society/politics will eventually bring all this so-called progress, sweetness and light crashing down
Vote:March 29th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Sorry to introduce a note of scepticism, but I have a nasty feeling that all this hoop-la and rejoicing will be relatively short lived and that historic chasms between the disparate elements in N. Irish society/politics will eventually bring all this so-called progress, sweetness and light crashing down
Vote:March 29th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
All we need now is for Ian Paisley to get a invite to the Vatican.
Who can remember the wonderful footage of Paisley holding up a sign saying Pope JPII was the anti-christ when the Pope spoke in the EU parliament?
Vote:March 29th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
As someone who has just returned from Ireland I would have to disagree. Sure things are streets ahead than they were, but im not so sure things have progressed far enough. What you have are two extremists working together because the alternative, direct rule from london AND dublin was not palatable for either side.
Vote:Proper change will only occur when less extreme parties eg, SDLP, UUP etc gain a majority.
Best of luck to them, but I wouldn’t trust either side at this point in time. And to be honest niether the republic or great britain at this time really need the north…
March 29th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
There is deep hatred I agree between protestants and catholics. I look at my own family who were deeply orange from Northern Ireland. It has taken 3 generations to wipe that out in a secular country. So it may never pass. But GB is bringing the Republic directly into NI affairs and will draw them in further. Perhaps there will be a formal joint trusteeship with GB transferring sovereignty to the joint trustees.
Vote:March 29th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
As someone who has just returned from Ireland I would have to disagree. Sure things are streets ahead than they were, but im not so sure things have progressed far enough. What you have are two extremists working together because the alternative, direct rule from london AND dublin was not palatable for either side.
Vote:Proper change will only occur when less extreme parties eg, SDLP, UUP etc gain a majority.
Best of luck to them, but I wouldn’t trust either side at this point in time. And to be honest niether the republic or great britain at this time really need the north…
March 29th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
Blair, but as you say, things ARE changing. It may be very slow progress, but it is definitely progress — and there is no looking back as the vast majority of people on both sides just don’t want to go back to the way it was.
Vote:The more moderate parties will come to the fore eventually. It will take time that’s all. (I know that my cousins have changed from voting for SDLP to Sinn Fein for now because they see Sinn Fein as the party that is getting results — and so far they seem to be right in that.)
It’s exciting times anyway. I refuse to believe the naysayers.
I gather no one can shed any light on my question about Adams?
March 29th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
Blair, but as you say, things ARE changing. It may be very slow progress, but it is definitely progress — and there is no looking back as the vast majority of people on both sides just don’t want to go back to the way it was.
Vote:The more moderate parties will come to the fore eventually. It will take time that’s all. (I know that my cousins have changed from voting for SDLP to Sinn Fein for now because they see Sinn Fein as the party that is getting results — and so far they seem to be right in that.)
It’s exciting times anyway. I refuse to believe the naysayers.
I gather no one can shed any light on my question about Adams?
March 29th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
Not a chance of peace here I am sorry to say.
As the Catholics continue to grow in number the Protestants will need the army to protect them. Whether it is the British or Irish army it makes no difference. The Irish gangs are still operating freely. Their political arms are now disconnected and talking, but being disconnected they are not relevant.
Vote:March 29th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
The politicians who whipped up some thing out of nothing and caused all the misery now get to bathe in the glory of bringing peace? Sick sick sick politicians.
Vote:March 30th, 2007 at 5:58 am
No one holds, cherishes and polishes a grudge like an Irishman.
Wait until they try and work out the budget and operational issues like education, public service jobs, the police, regional development and the rest of it.
Agreed 100%: economic development in Eire and the removal/paralyzation of the dead hand of Catholicism have been of immense importance to the peace process. In the ’60′s a visit to Eire was akin to stepping back into the mid-19th Century – worse than Portugal at the time – full of peasants and bog priests.
Vote:March 30th, 2007 at 8:56 am
The North of course is a basket case. Who would invest there. Consequently the British taxpayer subsidises the place to the tune of GBP5 billion (latest economist). So I guess the Republic does not want it either. But the final reunification of Ireland must come.
Vote:March 30th, 2007 at 9:26 am
The Hawk — you’re full of shit. The only “gangs” still operational in NI are the UDA/UVF on the loyalist side and RIRA?CIRA on the republican side. RIRA/CIRA are about as dangerous as the NZ Air Force.
MBM — the reason Adams is not deputy first minister is that it was promised to McGuinness, who is the real power behind the throne. Wihtout McG, the IRA would never have been taken along by SF in decommissioning and eventual oblivion.
Vote: