Police plan to charge Field with 14 counts of bribery
The Police have confirmed that they intend to charge former Labour Minister and MP Taito Phillip Field with 14 charges of bribery, relating to actions he took as a Labour MP.
They need the permission of the High Court to lay the charges under Section 103 of the Crimes Act. While I won’t make any prediction as to the outcome of any trial, I suspect it is highly unlikely the Police will not gain the Court’s permission to proceed to trial.
This is a very black day in the history of the NZ Parliament. Donna Awatere-Huata was enough of a black mark for facing fraud charges while an MP, but at least her fraudulant activities were primarily in her private capacity. Field is being charged over actions he took in his role as an MP. This is a new low.
Field must of course have his day in court, before one can proclaim guilt or innocence. But the charges confirm how serious this is and we already know his actions were grossly unethical, and that he lied to the Ingram Inquiry.
At this point in time, we should remind ourselves oh what our Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister said in defence of Mr Field.
On the 14th of September, in an attempt to bury the issue before the election, Clark said:
“I think the only thing he is probably guilty of is trying to be helpful to someone.”
Even worse is Michael Cullen. For at least Clark made her defence before the Ingram Report. But here is what Dr Cullen said *after* the Ingram Report came out, which was damning of Field:
So Mr Field has some matters to work through with the Labour leadership and the Labour whips. But he works incredibly hard on behalf of his constituents. He has people coming to him from all over Auckland for assistance, not just in immigration cases but in many other cases. He works harder on those matters than I suspect the entire National Party caucus does on constituency cases. If that is what he is guilty of, then I am sure he is happy to plead guilty to working hard on behalf of his constituents.
And of course as we all know, Clark set up the Ingram Inquiry with such a narrow terms of reference and such incredibly limited powers, that it was designed to fail.
And finally remember that Field was kicked out of the Labour Party not because he had shamed the NZ Parliament, not because he exploited vulnerable workers, not because he lied to the Ingram Inquiry, not because he behaved disgracefully, and not because he may be corrupt. He was kicked out for musing openly on the possibility of not standing for Labour.
Clark and Cullen tolerated the stench of corruption because they needed his vote. If Field is found guilty, it will be a shared verdict.
May 24th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
There is only one acceptable response to corruption: it must be rooted out immediately. Labours’ response doesn’t even come close.
In fact, any corruption in any area of the government doesn’t seem to get that response these days, be it Field or Corrections.
May 24th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
“While I won’t make any prediction as to the outcome of any trial, I suspect it is highly unlikely the Police will not gain the Court’s permission to proceed to trial.”
Technically, as you largely note, a Judge’s permission is needed to lay charges. A determination of whether any or all charges that are ultimately laid will proceed to trial would be made at a depositions hearing.
I suspect both are likely, but there is a distinction.
May 24th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
Hmmmmm….Call me cynical (but I prefer ‘wise and learned in the ways of human behaviour’), but will the Judge be made to declare his/her, political allegiance and impartiality, prior to any hearing?
May 24th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
Paul Marsden – are you still going on about corruption in the judiciary? How about stumping up with some evidence? And one little personal anecdote isn’t good enough.
May 24th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
Yep, biggest mistake of PTF’s life, musing on his future with Labour. If he was still inside the party there is no doubt these charges would never have been permitted to have been laid, not in the public interest you see.
May 24th, 2007 at 8:59 pm
Why didn’t the Police investigate this citizen’s allegation of corruption lodged 6 weeks before police announced they would investigate.
Members of Parliament, aware of this complaint, did nothing. Conduct unbecoming or were they, our servants, in the Service of the Crown, by their silence advantaging themselves to the disadvantage of the taxpayer.
Should they also be on trial?
19 07 2006
Police Commissioner Howard Broad
Office of the Commissioner
PO Box 3017
Wellington
Dear Commissioner
Phillip Taito Field Member of Parliament
As Member of Parliament and Minister at the time I allege that Phillip Taito Field was in breach of the Crimes Act 1961 under the sections referring to offences by Ministers and Members of Parliament
Every Minister of the Crown or member of the Executive Council is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 14 years who corruptly accepts or obtains, or agrees or offers to accept or attempts to obtain, any bribe for himself or any other person in respect of any act done or omitted, or to be done or omitted, by him in his capacity as a Minister or member of the Executive Council.
Section 25 Ignorance of the Law
Section 99 Bribery
Bribe” means any money, valuable consideration, office, or employment, or any benefit, whether direct or indirect:
“Valuable contribution” must mean almost free labour on Mr Fields properties and “or any benefit, whether direct or indirect”.
This benefit of free labour was allegedly obtained “out of gratitude or some sense of obligation” for immigration assistance from Mr Field”.
None of the events covered in the toothless inquiry would ever have arisen if Mr Field had not been a MP and a Minister. There would have been no approach by him to the Associate Immigration Minister Damien O’Connor supposedly to grant a work permit to a Thai overstayer who had tiled Mr Field’s house in Samoa. Mr O’Connor eventually did step in and grant a work visa to the Thai man, who had previously been refused refugee status.
Again Mr Field, if not an MP would not have been able to make a profit of $160,000 on the house he purchased as the result of the approach made to him as MP by a cash strapped couple.
Yours sincerely
May 24th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
Hello Paul
You were looking for a bit of evidence of judicial corruption. Sorry I can’t oblige but I can offer you an allegation that is before the Minister of justice and most MPs and the Media:
22 05 2007
Hon Mark Burton
Minister of Justice
Parliament Buildings
Wellington
Dear Minister
Thank you for your response to my email and attachments 15 May 2007 sent to some Members of Parliament, media etc. Quite a number of proposed recipients did not receive the attachments and that has been rectified today.
Part of your Ministry’s mission statement is:” A fairer, more credible and more effective justice system, being a system in which people’s interactions are underpinned by the rule of law and justice services are more equitable, credible and accessible”.
You recently stated: “An extraordinary statement from a group who was exposed as attempting to subvert the last election shows the need for electoral finance reform before the next election”.
Additionally you stated: …”the electoral funding laws were found to be wanting at the last election. The government intends to address this and in so doing strengthen the public’s confidence in the electoral system”. (FGR 22 05 2007. To do this we must have a transparent justice system.)
You are now aware that on 27 February 2007, The Hon Justice Goddard, Police Complaints Authority closed the file on complaints lodged in October and November of last year against Police Commissioner Howard Broad and persons in the Office of the Commissioner. This is a matter of “public interest”: Why did the Authority not release her decision to the Media?
The allegations were of a very serious nature viz: Perverting and preventing the course of justice.
You are now aware that this decision of The Hon Justice Goddard is contaminated by the fact that she confirmed her action as set down in this extract from my letter 16 04 2007:
“In the execution of your duties you clearly confirm that it is right and proper for you to confer with, enquire of, and take the advice of one of the persons complained to be in breach of the Crimes Act 1961, to close the file under the Act, without providing clear reasons to justify your actions
This in my view sets a new low for justice in this country, but it is par for the course. However I leave the following facts with you:
Crimes Act 1961
Part 6 Crimes affecting the administration of law and justice (s 99 to s [122)
Misleading justice
116 Conspiring to defeat justice”
Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years who conspires to obstruct, prevent, pervert, or defeat the course of justice
24 Powers of Authority in relation to investigations
(3) Every such examination by the Authority shall be deemed to be a judicial proceeding within the meaning of section 108 of the Crimes Act 1961 (which relates to perjury).
27 Procedure after investigation by Authority
(1) Where the Authority itself undertakes an investigation under this Act it shall form an opinion on whether or not any decision, recommendation, act, omission, conduct, policy, practice, or procedure which was the subject-matter of the investigation was contrary to law, unreasonable, unjustified, unfair, or undesirable.
(2) The Authority shall convey its opinion, with reasons, to the Commissioner, and may make such recommendations as it thinks fit, including a recommendation that disciplinary or criminal proceedings be considered or instituted against any member of the Police.
I have no knowledge whether; 27 Procedure after investigation by Authority was carried out as this knowledge is withheld from me and the public of New Zealand by:”131 Application of Ombudsmen Act 1975 and Official Information Act 1982 that applys to all Crown enteties (other than the police Complaints Authority).
So there is no transparency in the relationship between Police and the Police Complaints Authority.
This ensures that matters of “Public Interest” never surface. The file is closed on them. They are effectively “Buried”. “Corruption” rears its ugly head.
I allege Minister, that the Hon Justice Goddard, Police Complaints Authority, as a person in the Service of the Crown, has breached the following sections of the Crimes Act 1961:
100 Judicial corruption
107 Contravention of statute
116 Conspiring to defeat justice: Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years who conspires to obstruct, prevent, pervert, or defeat the course of justice
You need to commission a Royal Commission of Inquiry to investigate the actions of the Police and Police Complaints Authority.
Yours sincerely
PS. You must be aware of the allegation lodged with Police Commissioner Howard Broad on 28 04 2007?
Please confirm this last statement and when you became aware of it.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
Frank, you might or might not have a point. But you are threadjacking.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:54 pm
Where art thou Sonic, phillipjohn, toms, Ben Wilson, phil u, Red Rag, Sam Dixon ?
May 24th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
Paul Marsden – are you still going on about corruption in the judiciary? How about stumping up with some evidence? And one little personal anecdote isn’t good enough.
Posted by Hello Paul | May 24, 2007 8:29 PM
I’ve obviously got under your skin? Yes, I do have some interesting observations derived from witnessing the shortcomings of the judicial system in NZ, from an unusual perspective. I have mentioned nothing about ‘corruption’ at all.(though I think High Court Judges who make personal telephone calls to various people, to ensure their Orders are carried out, must come very close, dont you think?) Incompetence, predjuiced and bias? Yes..Absouluty irrefutable. Evidence? Yes, I have a little.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:28 pm
News Flash – Wellington hospital is flooded with political liarbore homosexuals of both genders after an explosion in level 9 Ministry of Love Beehive building. It is alleged that police asked Supreme leader Hulun Klark to undergo a lie detector test and after the electrodes were switched on the machine was obliterated into a million pieces and many innocent bystanders have suffered severe causalities from the shrapnel. The concerned Bat Cave has just rung area police commander Sandra M who told me to f off as she bolting to Washington ASAP. It has been reported that police tracker dogs lost the scent of an extremely happy large Pacific Island slug that was seen crawling from the area not long after the massive explosion.
As far as Judicial corruption goes , please do wait for the Roger P case to be fine tuned as it will rock your socks off .
May 24th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Paul, you have indeed got under his skin. I doubt he could come up with one bit of evidence proving you wrong.
I still find it a little worrying that Geoff Palmer openly donates to Labour.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:00 pm
I still find it a little worrying that Geoff Palmer openly donates to Labour.
Posted by Clint Heine | May 24, 2007 10:42 PM
Posted on May 24, 2007 22:42
Indeed. You would be even more worried would you not, if GP’s ‘best mate (or, any close acquaintance of his), was to preside over any matter relating to TFP? Hypothetical of course, but in this very small country, a very real possibility.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
And the day the Ingram report was released
http://www.beehive.govt.nz/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=26488
“While the report does not find wrongdoing by Mr Field, it does imply errors of judgment. The Labour Party leadership and parliamentary whips will be working with Mr Field on the issues raised, in particular on the need for a Member of Parliament to keep personal and professional distance from those being advocated for and on the adverse perception which may attach to the practice of lafo when gifts are received,” Helen Clark said.
May 25th, 2007 at 12:33 am
“Where art thou Sonic, phillipjohn, toms, Ben Wilson, phil u, Red Rag, Sam Dixon ?”
Give them a break, they’ve been hard at it all day- defending communism and apologising for murdering totalitarians.
May 25th, 2007 at 2:41 am
“This is a very black day in the history of the NZ Parliament. Donna Awatere-Huata was enough of a black mark for facing fraud charges while an MP”.
In light of Rick Ellis’ comments recently David, may I suggest deleting the word “black” repetitively used in the above post.
May 25th, 2007 at 5:26 am
Kate – lol – but this way I may qualify for charter funding
May 25th, 2007 at 6:54 am
About bloody time -
May 25th, 2007 at 7:46 am
Naturally, the MSM is all over this today, which is bad news for Clark & Cullen. John Armstrong is particularly damning in today’s Herald
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10441714
Methinks Labour will need more than Kiwisaver, 20Free and an election year lolly scramble to get out of this mess!
May 25th, 2007 at 8:11 am
Apropos the timing of this which was raised in the previous TPF thread, am I alone in speculating that the budget hype could only be maintained for a week and a distraction was needed so that we would all “move on”?
Nothing associated with this Government happens wthout a reason.
Alternative conspiracy theory is that there is something about the ability to delay a trial until after the election thus avoiding the need for a by-election.
Once committed, the TPF matter will “go-away” until a depositions when there will be another flurry, then it will go quiet again until trial. Meanwhile all attempts at discussion (including discussion of the PM’s handling and attempted sidelining of it) can be met with ” I cannot comment as the matter is before the Court” No new news here folks, move right along.
May 25th, 2007 at 8:42 am
Clark, Cullen & co will bluster for all they are worth, but when Parliament resumes, you can bet that the opposition parties will be asking some searching questions of Clark (if she bothers to turn up), from which she won’t be able to take refuge in the “Can’t comment – before the Courts” mantra.
In yesterday’s exhanges, Hetaher Roy’s question was a dandy!!
“Heather Roy: Is not the real reason the Prime Minister is not standing by her statement today that Taito Phillip Field fell out of her favour and that a pattern is emerging in the use of police discretion when prosecuting MPs, as evidenced by the police not prosecuting the Prime Minister for art fraud, or dangerous driving through South Canterbury, assault on a minor by Minister Benson-Pope, assault by Minister Hodgson, breach of the Companies Act by Minister Parker, and electoral fraud by the Labour Party, as opposed to the charging of Shane Ardern for driving a tractor, Nick Smith for standing up for a constituent, Donna Awatere Huata for fraud, and Taito Phillip Field for bribery, and what is her part in this pattern?”
That is a question which we would ALL like to hear an honest answer for!
May 25th, 2007 at 8:56 am
Inventory2:
Well, yes… As Armstrong has said, you can’t escape the conclusion that Clark was just a wee bit too clever for he own good by hobbling Noel Ingram – who, IMO, got unjustly ballocked from all sides because he wouldn’t — and couldn’t — just re-write the terms of reference or compel anyone to co-operate.
If David W is right (and I’m not so sure he is) and there’s some vast Ninth Floor conspiracy in play here, it’s pretty hard to escape the conclusion it’s backfired horribly. Playing silly buggers at Question Time or semantic hair-splitting and selective memory loss in a press conference in one thing; doing the same thing under oath in an open court, during election year, is quite another. And as the British Tories or the GOP can testify, ‘sleaze’ by association – fairly applied or not – is the political equivalent of red wine on a white carpet.
May 25th, 2007 at 8:59 am
Inventory2
You want an “honest answer” from Helen Clark, you have got to be kidding.
May 25th, 2007 at 9:20 am
Craig R – you are probably right, I’m tilting at windmills a bit.
It is just that with what we have seen over the last 8 years it is hard to not have that prickly feeling of being manipulated but not being sure how. I know by whom and can guess why so keep looking for the real agenda.
I would wager it is also the reason why the Nats haven’t said too much about Kiwisaver as they will be looking for the (not so un-)intended consequences down the track.
Andrew Little’s diatribe against Air NZ’s decision to contribute the full 4% from day one is a classic case of a backfire which, if handled properly should embarrass Cullen and Clark deeply.
May 25th, 2007 at 9:25 am
Andrew said
“Inventory2
You want an “honest answer” from Helen Clark, you have got to be kidding.”
yeah, I know mate, but we live in hope!!! Meanwhile, we can all just enjoy the spectacle of her having to squirm for a while!
May 25th, 2007 at 9:27 am
Lets look at prosecutions of MPs from a statisticians point of view. Since the election of the current administration in 1999:
Probability of a Liarbour MP being charged with an offense = 0%
The probability of a non-Liarbour MP being charged with an offense = 100%
Damned weak, gutless and corrupt NZ Police.
A pox upon their stations!
May 25th, 2007 at 9:40 am
They’re not “weak and gutless”, they’re best force public funds can buy.
Ask Helen, she bought them and they’re staying bought.
May 25th, 2007 at 9:51 am
When I become Prime Minister of New Zealand (for life) my first act will be to light the fire that burns the Beehive bitches at the stake (you know who they are) on the grounds of Parliament.
My second act will be to appoint dad4justice my Justice Minister (for life).
Sonic and co will be given jobs more appropriate to their skills – public toilet cleaners.
May 25th, 2007 at 9:54 am
Yeah, the Labour leadership were too slow to cut loose Taito and mishandled the issue, and I think that stemmed from a geniune faith in him. There was always the problem of kicking him out when there was not proof of wrongdoing, and that he had the right to stay in Parliament even if he was evicted from Labour.
I don’t agree that the Ingram report was set up to fail, but I think Ingram did a pretty poor job in not asking for broader powers when he met obstruction.
It will be interesting to see how the trial plays out. I think, apart from any embarrassment in the trial itself, Labour stands to gain in the long-run if Taito is convicted.. no more Christian PI party, no popular opponent in Mangere, and a by-election if he is convicted 6 months before the next general election is due (ie by about March next year) in which Labour will easily win and can use to gain political momentum.
May 25th, 2007 at 10:05 am
Guys, I’m noticing a pattern:
when the stats disagree with you, the statisticans are corrupt (government liars).
when the Police take aciton you don’t agree with, the Police are corrupt.
when scientists disagree with you (eg climate change), the scientists are corrupt.
when the Hollow Men hide their radical agendas in an attmept to gain government by stealth, thats just good politics.
May 25th, 2007 at 10:15 am
Swiftman – please do not refer to burning MPs you do not like.
Sam – Ingram did ask for more powers and was declined. And regardless it was Clark who is at fault for choosing an inquiry form with no powers.
May 25th, 2007 at 10:24 am
Ingram will be popping open the bubbly. A total vindication for him. It was disgraceful how he was treating by Clark. He was bullied and harrassed. He showed major balls by sticking to his guns, and being honest. He will forever be on Labours hitlist for that honesty, and I congratulate him for standing up to a dictator.
May 25th, 2007 at 10:27 am
[Repost]
When I become Prime Minister of New Zealand (for life) my first act will be to launch a Royal Commission of Inquiry into *possible* criminal acts of the previous administration and its MPs.
My second act will be to appoint dad4justice my Justice Minister (for life).
Sonic and co will be given jobs more appropriate to their skills – public toilet cleaners.
May 25th, 2007 at 10:33 am
Well Sam … so you think the TOR given to Noel Ingram were designed to get to the bottom of the matter … so you think pigs fly?
And if you imagine TFP’s lawyers calling a parade of Labour Cabinet Ministers, including perhaps herself, to testify as to their knowledge of what actually happened and their active connivence will not damage the Labour Party then I suggest you take a reality check.
May 25th, 2007 at 10:41 am
Ross,
the trial will only be on evidence of whether Taito did the corrupt things alleged – the political aftermath would not be relevant to that – except if a Labour Minister was damning in the witness box and the lawyer could point to previous contrary statements, or Taito argues he thought his actions were OK because he got approval from Labour collegues.
Remember its not Labour thats on trial in the legal sense, a judge won’t allow a line of questioning intended to establish whether Labour tried to minimise the damage to it.
Having said that, appearing in the trial would obviously not be a good look for Labour ministers but I think the broader implications I sated above favour Labour.
May 25th, 2007 at 10:57 am
Maybe the Police have worked something out.
Liarbour are 13 points behind in the polls.
National might win the next election, thus they don’t need to kow tow to Dear Leader.
Thus when Liarbour breaks the law it is now in the public interest to prosecute.
If only National had been higher in the polls during Paintergate, Speedgate, Doonegate, etc, etc.
May 25th, 2007 at 11:03 am
Someone remind me who pays Simon Moore’s Salary please.
May 25th, 2007 at 11:07 am
Sam – there is quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that a number of senior Labour politicians knew what was going on in TPF’s office. In addition, top officials at the NZIS had major concerns, and expressed them to both the Minister and Associate Minister of Immigration – you only need to look at some of the very specific questions that Lockwood Smith was asking, day after day. TPF and his legal team will fight thius to the bitter end, and if Cabinet Ministers are called to give evidence, their answers, under oath, could be damning. “Hollow Men” is not a phenomenon unique to the right!
May 25th, 2007 at 11:13 am
Swiftman wrote
“Sonic and co will be given jobs more appropriate to their skills – public toilet cleaners.”
And if they do a good job, after 5 years they get a brush!
May 25th, 2007 at 11:25 am
Sam:
Kudos for trying to make lemonade out of some pretty bitter lemons, but I have to agree with Ross that you’re being rather naive if you think Damien O’Connor (in particular) is looking forward to the prospect of being questioned under oath in an open court about his interactions with Field and his office as Associate Immigration Minister.
Actually, to put a positive but non-partisan spin on this it could be a pretty big positive for all MPs if there’s going to be some clearer ethical rules around how they interact with constistuents. Not least making clear the notion that the ‘cultural practices’ of Parliamentary ethics are paramount, and if that offends those who think they need to pay for the attention of their MP so be it.
May 25th, 2007 at 11:30 am
I am a bit uncomfortable with some of this debate. If Taito Phillip Field has committed the crimes that he is been charged for then hopefully the courts will get a conviction.
I do not think for one moment that the judiciary in New Zealand will let him off because he is a MP or because he was a member of the governing party.
He will get his day in court but we should be careful about condemning a man before he has had a change to defend himself.
I am no apologist for Labour or Field but do believe in the principle of natural justice that Dave mentioned.
Also Dave why so putrient about burning MP’s or more likely some ex-MP’s….it is because of the toxic fumes that may be given off??? Good to see you are still an environmentalist!
May 25th, 2007 at 11:33 am
It is amazing that we do not even have to appear on a thread without getting a mention.
Ah well.
I see the confusion between being charged and being convicted lives on.
May 25th, 2007 at 11:47 am
Swiftman’s kangaroo court and lynch mob?
Fear not, Mr Sonic.
May 25th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
“Also Dave why so putrient about burning MP’s or more likely some ex-MP’s….it is because of the toxic fumes that may be given off??? Good to see you are still an environmentalist! ”
The R & D team are downstairs in the basement working on carbon neutral methods as we speak!
May 25th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Thank you Swiftman the Infidel, I am honoured that you would put forward my nomination as Justice Minister. It is rather appropriate because a little birdie told me this morning at the local ocal Courthouse (High Court) that the real Judiciary of integrity has had a “ gutsfull of this corrupt government”. I heard how the demented girls club member, Justice Goddard got her demotion job at the toothless PCA (what a mad maggot) and other hot judicial gossip about the socialist sisterhood e.g. Bradford’s convictions for violence, Justices D – Donna H had the baby taken away etc…!!!!. Don’t you love the bush telegraph you twisted liarbore scumbags! They also enjoy my rants on this blog and told me to keep smacking the communist filth hard!
These politically correct homosexual devious scums are going to get the cold steel of truth thrust up em. I am gaining some powerful friends Miss Smellon Klark, and it is pleasing to state that you are intensely hated in positions of power down here in the mainland. To John Key, I say, get some balls real quick mate, as an army of pissed off people want to paint red socialist ideology black. Distance yourself from the whack’s and perverts from the left mate, because they have built themselves a prima facie case for CORRUPTION!
May 25th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
… and perhaps Minister of Defense (for life) too!
May 25th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
And Minister of Foreign Affairs! That’s a natural gift for diplomacy.
Followed by a plum job in Public Relations afterwards.
May 25th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
No llew, The Right Honourable dad4justice skills are not in this area, and he will be busy with his two other portfolios.
My preferred foreign minister is The Right Honourable David Farrar, as he is very diplomatic and nearly always out of the country anyway!
May 25th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
D4J -
In all honesty, I don’t think you have anyone to talk to let alone ‘powerful friends’.
Every time I come on here and see one of your confusing, abusing, comically unchallenging rants I ‘m glad you’re not on our side of the divide.. but that’s not surprising of course, people with that kind of irrational, unfiltered anger and blind hated against everyone different from themselves (or maybe it is themselves they really have the problem with) seem far more at home on the right.
May 25th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Swiftman the infidel
Can I be the minister for womans internal affairs ?
May 25th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Sam D – Is it a good time to point out that you just did exactly the same thing as you accuse D4J of doing? It just proves that irrational comment and blind hatred are not specific to political views but are in fact part of the human condition. More’s the pity.
May 25th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
“blind hated against everyone different from themselves (or maybe it is themselves they really have the problem with) seem far more at home on the right.”
What utter crap that assertion would be. It is left liberals with their decades long PC assault on freedom of expression that are recognised by any objective observer as the main threats to civilized discourse today.
May 25th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Sam D – Is it a good time to point out that you just did exactly the same thing as you accuse D4J of doing? It just proves that irrational comment and blind hatred are not specific to political views but are in fact part of the human condition. More’s the pity.
May 25th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
Sam Dioxin, you typify the spineless attitude of the commie wimps’ and soft cock characteristic’s portrayed by the lefie dickwacks that are driving 600 feed up kiwis from our shores every week, while the political geeks who are devoid of any social conscience allow the corruption to go unchecked. Mrs Digusting and her continual lying every second she opens her wooden teeth mouth is totally offensive to anybody with a brain and it is any wonder George laughed at the obscene creature.
I suppose you’ll be one of the twisted liabore snakes that will support Mr Field’s application for legal aid. Please tell your fetid friends that we the common sense public of New Zealand have grown tired of the disgraceful and appalling antic’s of Klark and her dishonest practices. Liarbore has built a rotten and decaying image , but what else would a disillusioned constituent expect from such a morally depraved bunch of misfits . Even the most one –eyed ardent supporter of the left can see this government has bankrupted itself of any credibility and integrity.
Sam you are pathetic and I will prove you wrong about my powerful friends in due time !!!
May 25th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
CraigM -
In fairness I am being cirtical of D4J on a personal level but I don’t think you can equate my:
“Every time I come on here and see one of your confusing, abusing, comically unchallenging rants I ‘m glad you’re not on our side of the divide”
with his:
“These politically correct homosexual devious scums are going to get the cold steel of truth thrust up em.” or
“Wellington hospital is flooded with political liarbore homosexuals of both genders after an explosion in level 9 Ministry of Love Beehive building. It is alleged that police asked Supreme leader Hulun Klark to undergo a lie detector test and after the electrodes were switched on the machine was obliterated into a million pieces and many innocent bystanders have suffered severe causalities from the shrapnel. The concerned Bat Cave has just rung area police commander Sandra M who told me to f off as she bolting to Washington ASAP. It has been reported that police tracker dogs lost the scent of an extremely happy large Pacific Island slug that was seen crawling from the area not long after the massive explosion.”
CraigM,
-you’re one of the people who contributes substantive and well-thought out right-of-centre comments to this blog. I know I dispair at some of the uninformed, utopian hippies on the left (don’t get any on this blog) but at least they are wrong in a nice way, you know their hearts are in the right place, just not their heads. I’m geniunely interested to know what it is like for you to see that all the ones on this blog yelling obscenities, calling for violence, and showing bizaare hated-filled prejudice are also of the right.
May 25th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
“Can I be the minister for womans internal affairs ?”
and poof (!) said the Fairy Godmother, you are now a tampon.
May 25th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
Sam go buy a sense of humour at the $2 shop you sad individual . You might see Mr Field in there buying a legal aid book .
May 25th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
“”blind hated against everyone different from themselves (or maybe it is themselves they really have the problem with) seem far more at home on the right.”
What utter crap that assertion would be.”
Bwahahaha!! I think you provide evidence backing his point every time you post Redbaiter.
Although I agree with CraigM’s comment.
May 25th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
Sam
This thread is not about you. Stop trying to drag the subject away from how corrupt the Govt have become.
May 25th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Careful llew you might upset the “poofs”
May 25th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
Sam just check out the name at the end of the comment, if it says dad4justice why waste the 10 seconds it takes to read it?
May 25th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
D4J –
Is “these politically correct homosexual devious scums are going to get the cold steel of truth thrust up em”, with its needless hated of homosexuals, its empty reference to ‘poltical correctness’, its revealing in doing violence to another person becuase they are different, and the latent homosexuality exposed in the imagery of ‘cold steel of truth thrust up em’ meant to be funny?
May 25th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
Sam and Sonic I am sending you both a copy of a book written by my meat inspector friend clever Trevor called ” Butchers , Blowflies and Buggery “
May 25th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
And burt … it really does show how much we have come to accept (expect) behaviour that not long ago would have been intolerable to thiose that inhabit both Trades Hall and the Northern Club.
The attitude that there are no rules (and even if there are we can change them), and that the people are morons to be treated like mushrooms or ignored, has caused a sort of stupor among the polpulation with the reult that those who have not been sucked in have needed to shout louder and louder.
sonic and sam take this to be right wing extremism to be sneered at and marginalised but by the time they wake up to the fact that there are people of principle who are willing to stand up and be counted and that more and more are waking up to the stupendous con that has been the 4th Labour Government, they will themselves be forced to rethink their own ideals or become the marginalised ones.
It ill becomes us who get sucked in to responding to the pitiful sneering attempts at diverting attention from the points that are well made on this blog. If they were not afraid of the backlash they would not spend their time so assiduously defending the indefensible.
I’m tempted to finish with “.. and thats all I have to say about that” and sign off as ForrestG but what the hell.
May 25th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
I don’t think this case will be anywhere near settled before the next election every step in the process so far has taken at least six months. I doubt that the Attorney General will authorise prosecution inside that time, then a date will be set for depositions. With fourteen charges that is going to be long drawn out.Witnesses will be hard to find, and hard to brief, memories will be vague. If the cases are sent for trial it will be long dated and discussion suppressed. We are not looking at seeing the matter finalised before the forthcoming election, maybe the one after that.
May 25th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
Sam- “I’m geniunely interested to know what it is like for you to see that all the ones on this blog yelling obscenities, calling for violence, and showing bizaare hated-filled prejudice are also of the right.”
I read a lot of posts from people on “the right” and probably in the middle also, that are fed up with what is going on in NZ and take the opportunity in threads such as this to vent. I would not agree with you that they only come from the right. Sometimes sarcastic, off topic meaningless comments defending things that are indefensible (to me anyway) are just as annoying (and yes entertaining) as the ranting ones.
May 25th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
You know I’ve been thinking, if you really did want to screw up a conservative blog the best way would not to make left-wing comments, but instead to make wild, hysterical, lunatic, bigoted and insane comments while posing as a friend of the site.
Lucky no-one has ever thought of that eh?
May 25th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Burt, ForrestG –
I’m not trying to divert attention from anything, I just take issue with the way the likes of D4J carry on and it paints the rest of the rightwingers as wackos too – just wondering what jokers think about that.
For the record, it seems to me that Taito is guilty as sin and I’m happy to see him go down but that is for the jury to decide – as for poltical impact, probably negative for Labour during the trial but good in the long term, it all depends whether the verdict is delivered long enough before the next election to trigger a by-election.
DavidW – its the 5th Labour government, btw, 4th was 1984-1990.
May 25th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
Silly Sam – I am not a right winger or staunch tory – you dip stick , I just hate CORRUPTION !!!!
May 25th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
sonic-
yeah, that would be quite the scam to pull. You know, I once thought DPF himself might be a leftie in disguise showing how hollow right-wing thought is but I can’t quite credit it that D4J or RB culd be playing a joke on the real righties, eh. Too weird to fake.
May 25th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
You never give up do you Sammy lickspitte .
May 25th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
“You know I’ve been thinking, if you really did want to screw up a conservative blog”
The loser left as out of touch with reality as they always are. The truth is this blog gets more popular by the day. However, I’m sure its not because of the endless insane patronising preaching of messrs Dixon, PJ et al, all such fervent disciples of the Divine Church of Suckholing Socialists. Waffle waffle waffle…
May 25th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Hot Damn Sam, the 5th you say!
I can’t remember them all, one must have snuck in thru’ my blind spot. I can remember when wool was £1 per lb, the great waterfront strike and Arnold Nordmyer but …… Oh wait you can’t really call Lange’s Government “Labour” with a straight face can you?
May 25th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
“I once thought DPF himself might be a leftie in disguise showing how hollow right-wing thought is but I can’t quite credit it that D4J or RB culd be playing a joke on the real righties”
Nah, not D4J. But Redbaiter… there’s a case to be made. Occasionally he’ll spew something vaguely clever, and he’s obviously enjoying this, so yeah. I’m in the Redbaiter’s fake & feigning idiocy to make the conservatives here (many of whom I rate & respect) look stupid by association.
May 25th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
On reflection, perhaps you are right Sam. Lange did empty the state coffers and leave a nearly bankrupt economy didn’t he. It requiring some very tight measures in the 90′s to get some semblence of order back into things and that at a time when the world (mostly Asia and Europe) economy was decidedly shaky.
There is a lot of the sadist in this current lot. Just when things were coming right and it was time to stop banging our heads against the wall it was unthinkable for Cullen to allow any sense of relief so he has wired a large proportion of the active population into banging harder and harder.
Propably what has brought about the stupor I referred to earlier.
May 25th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Redbaiter, don’t worry everybody knows that dixon, dalley ,pj, sleep, redrag ,chronic and all the other commie twisted things are either undeclared species or confiscated specimens – either way – I am like you – totally mystified at their faban socialist dribble .
For a laugh, I can remember gaining some notoriety when , while working on a roading contract at Otira, I accidently blocked the road using gelignite.Regrettably, the blockage coincided with the visit of the Labour Party Prime Minister Norman Kirk ( I did respect him when I finally met him ) had to go around the long way through the Lewis pass . I laughed and went whitebaiting .
May 25th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
RB-
Sonic just said you could be a fake rightie to screw up a conservative blog, not to make it less popular.
makes me wonder what DPF, when he began this little project, thought it would be like on the comments page. I’m guessing he envisioned thoughtful, considered and good natured debate. I doubt he ever thought that the people agreeing with him would one day be calling for MPs to be burned, calling anyone who disagreed with them a socialist, a homo, corrupt etc etc.
- intersting how the tirade of abuse is a one-way street, we don’t call you names. I don’t see what the point in it would be. How would me calling you a fascist everytime you said something right-wing make my arguments any stronger?
May 25th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
Guess this thread is shot……
Our discussion on govt corruption and PF has gone west and the personal attacks are flying.
So who do we blame for the thread hijack today?
Before I jump on my eco friendly plane to head home and fork over my hard earned for a crappy sammich, I just want to say that I hope that PF gets a fair trial and that the government suffers terribly for it’s inept handling of the issue.
Oh & Sam, have a read of Mrs Disgusted posts if you can stomach it ….what an angel she appears to be.
May 25th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
CraigM -
oh yeah forgot about her, not sure where she sits on the spectrum though (she really doesn’t like D4J eh? Not really the done thing to give someone’s real name)
May 25th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
“- intersting how the tirade of abuse is a one-way street, we don’t call you names. ”
Once again I’m in agreement with Craig M, the abuse is not one way.
hell, I’ve called Redbaiter a moron more than once.
May 25th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
I like the attempts to claim a victory either side for rationality and the topical upper hand in every thread – in my experience whenever someone from the left is arguing a valid point it is almost always dragged to S59 (god bless:), “corruption”, “the lying left media” or one of RedBaiters “communists-under-your-bed-and-in-your-closet conspiracies”.
I guess we all see what we want to see, to varying degrees, but this is an honest observation. I think the popularity of this site is to do with the debate, as opposed to what DPF has to say.
The other observation is that whenever a good debate is going on, everyone ignores D4J and other people who butt in with unpleasant, offensive remarks, like an ADHD child at a dinner party (no I’m not saying for one second he is one – it’s an analogy that comes to mind) and continues talking to each other like adults. It’s very refreshing, when rational, logical people from both sides can argue and such – I have learnt a lot lately (from both sides).
On topic – glad the police have decided to prosecute – given what’s floating around, best to have him up for it. If he’s not found guilty, then good. If he is, then even better, corruption has no place in our society.
May 25th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Oh yes waiting for the sewer dweller Matt Pilott to turn up from his rat hole , eh dick head have you brought your wife Mrs Disgusted with you , you tugger !!!
May 25th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
The attitude of HC in defending TPF when she needed him can be compared with John Howard in Australia. While I was on holiday there in March a member of his cabinet blotted his copybook by not fully disclosing his assets. There was no excuse there. He was out as fast as Howard could get him out – no contrived toothless enquiry. He was out of the cabinet and with his reputation in tatters resigned from parliament. While there was no crime involved he broke the rules. That was in spite of emabrrassment to Howard during a time of low poll ratings.
Helen’s actions make a mockery of her claim to accountability and openness in 2000.
May 25th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
“How would me calling you a fascist everytime you said something right-wing make my arguments any stronger?”
When you and your pathetic lot of leftist smear merchants call me or any genuine Conservative a Fascist, all it does it show what brainwashed ignoramuses you are, what feeble minded play things you are to the scum who have indoctrinated you. If you had any idea at all, you would realise tha anyone who advocates for small government and individual freedom cannot be a Fascist. Fascism is a big government concept. Big government is anthema to any true Conservative. Big government is a leftist concept. That makes you and your mates closer to Fascism than any Conservative. Go away you shallow ignorant infantile bore, and come back when you’ve got a clue.
May 25th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
“When you and your pathetic lot of leftist smear merchants call me or any genuine Conservative a Fascist, all it does it show what brainwashed ignoramuses you are, what feeble minded play things you are to the scum who have indoctrinated you.”
RedBaiter, you’ve thoroughly and comprehensively missed the point there, to a degree I thought not possible (you come across as an intelligent person, when one cuts through the abuse and empty rhetoric). Sam was making the point that calling you a fascist would not make his argument any stronger.
So, reading your post in that correct context, you’ve agreed with him. Probably the best course of action, as he was saying that a tirade of abuse is not a good way to get a point across, and that in doing so, one will belittle their own argument.
Think about that when you use terms such as “scum”, “shallow ignorant infantile bore”, and such.
May 25th, 2007 at 9:33 pm
Matt, I don’t need any lectures from leftists on “missing the point”. Leftists never get the point, or they wouldn’t be leftists. Mr. Dixon’s implication was that “fascist” was the natural extension of Conservative as Communist is the natural extension of Socialist. He’s utterly wrong in that assumption for the reasons I tried to explain, but that you obviously failed to comprehend. Let me say it again. Fascism is a big government concept and therefore cannot possibly be allied with small government Conservatism. Fascism is a leftist concept.
The left today continually deny their direct linkage to fascism, when they above all embrace that philosophy with fervor and zeal. A common example is the SOE, a commercial entity where government is a controlling shareholder. The outcomes are the same as old fashioned fascism, its just that the methods are more sophisticated.
Politically one dimensional ignoramuses like you Matt, preaching your sick ideals on here without even recognising their origins are a sad blight on this country. How do you think Communism comes to a country? Do you think it appears there in the street and then people vote for it? Rather it sneaks in by stealth and deceit, gradually and slowly, and unknowing brainwashed fools like you and Sam Dixon embrace it and propagandise for it without even knowing what you’re doing.
BTW, “scum” and “shallow infantile bore” are not abuse. They are descriptive terms that describe things the way I want to describe them. The tutors who turn our education system into a political gulag and produce socialist zombies like you rather than educated people with the ability to reason and think critically are scum. They are scum because they molest the minds of our young. The graduates they produce are shallow boring fools because they are not educated. They are indoctrinated. Get it you PC dumbarse?
You and your damn “offense”. Here’s some news- Your whole damn thieving immoral political system is massively offensive to me, and you whine on here about a few damn adjectives you CHOOSE TO READ..!!!!. Fuck off and get a real education, then come back and have a real debate.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28134
May 27th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
When I started this site I didn’t expect anyone outside my friends would read it, let alone what the comments would be. There are extreme comments from both left and right.
Incidentially the proportion of people who read the comments are a very small proportion of those who just read what I say on the main page.
May 28th, 2007 at 11:25 am
Redbaiter,
Once again, straight over your head. Priceless. I shall try once more, although fully expect it to be a waste of my time. Mr Dixon did *NOT* say, by implication or otherwise, that fascism is an extension of conservatism. Not, as in negative. Please take a breath and comprehend that.
Good.
You think that leftists are brainwashed and indoctrinated. That’s fine for you, but in believing that, all I can think of is that you, personally, must be. I believe that people can choose conservatism as a point of view, just as they may choose a more left-wing view. In my case I consider conservatism to be the forces of old and evil, pandering to big Business, as opposed to big Government, and on the side of all that is wrong with the world.
You clearly disagree with my beliefs, but to actually believe it’s because we’re ‘brainwashed’ implies you haven’t the ability to think for yourself about it.
I also am happy to read your abuse, it makes you seem far less intelligent all of a sudden – it’s a poor substitute for actual arguments (as opposed to your fact-less rants), and makes you seem ignorant. You ask for a real debate, and actually come up with sweet fuck all yourself.
More’s the pity. Good day.