Will Labour nobble one of their own to help Winston?
The SST reports on the speculation that Labour, desperate to retain power, is considering endorsing Winston Peters in a safe Labour seat. On present polling NZ First will be wiped out of Parliament.
They also suggest that an alternative strategy could be to have Ron Mark stand without opposition from Labour in a Christchurch seat. But anyone who studies WInston knows it is more likely Keith Locke would campaign for George W Bush, than Winston allow his place in Parliament to be reliant on one of his MPs. The MP who has the seat which keeps a party in Parliament is the de facto leader.
Standing again in Tauranga is highly implausible unless Winston wants to be humiliated.
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Tags: Labour
May 27th, 2007 at 9:10 am
Great, a useful and charismatic politician like winston can be humiliated by a moron like clarkson. But of course it wouldn’t be fair to say that clarkson represents a significant element in the national party…
May 27th, 2007 at 9:40 am
Is there such a thing as a ‘safe Labour seat’ now?
Seriously though, does Irene Chapple (or Labour or NZF) seriously think that dear old, ex Labour candidate, Ron Mark standing against Gerry Brownlie in blue rinse Ilam would stand a snowballs chance.
NZF burnt off their National leaning support when Winston did his dump on the Party (just ask Doug Wollerton). So, rather than carpetbag across to Ilam perhaps RM should remain in Waimakariri and have Labour stand down Cosgrove in favour of a high list ranking … problem with that of course is that National would probably win that seat too.
Labour (and NZF) must really be getting desperate to float this sort of deal.
May 27th, 2007 at 9:47 am
Pedro, if you think Clarkson is a moron why do you not stand against him? Please tell us your name and what you have achieved in life.
May 27th, 2007 at 9:49 am
Do not panic. Winston, as always, will do what is best for Winston!!
Pedro – I would suggest that parliament needs more people like Clarkson – not afraid to speak their mind in good old basic easily understood English.
May 27th, 2007 at 9:56 am
I agree with Ross – which seat is safe enough for Labour to sacrfice and hope the punters will then follow Labours instruction to vote for this generally unpopular MP. Labour could then end up double losers – Losing a constitutency seat and also sacrificing party support.
And then Winston doing what winston does best – and flip flopping (remember no baubles)and supporting national – if they need it – regardless of any pre-election promises.
And without Winston the party would dissolve
May 27th, 2007 at 9:59 am
“I would suggest that parliament needs more people like Clarkson – not afraid to speak their mind in good old basic easily understood English.”
I agree, but I don’t think the National Party does. That’s Pedro’s biggest misconception. In fact, too many of the Nats would agree with Pedro.
May 27th, 2007 at 10:10 am
If National get 48% and Labour get 38%, National will form the government. Anything else would be an outrage that New Zealander’s would not stand for.
If Labour think differently, they are dreaming. Look how bad this term has been? What do they think it would be like if they won with such a negative mandate? We’d have an election within 18 months, a which National would get 60% of the vote and Labour 26%. And the minor parties that supported the government would be annihialted (except the greens).
May 27th, 2007 at 10:22 am
“I would suggest that parliament needs more people like Clarkson – not afraid to speak their mind in good old basic easily understood English.”
And would those easy to understand words include f**k and s**t?
May 27th, 2007 at 10:33 am
“And would those easy to understand words include f**k and s**t?”
Are you suggesting Clarkson might be the only Nat who uses such words? The ” progressives” have made these words commonplace. Son’s even use them when talking to their mothers. This is NZ’s culture, the one the left has imposed upon us.
..and to try and keep on topic, Winston is right at home in bed with the left.
May 27th, 2007 at 10:36 am
it’s a red-letter day..!
chicky/birdy did a comment..without hanging out/flashing his homophobia for all and sundry to see..
mind you..the paucity of intellectual rigor/lack of basic logic demonstrated in that non-homophobic comment..
(a (surly)..”..well..why didn’t you stand against him then..?..’)..(?)
only confirms that he is indeed a one-trick-pony..
his homophobia being all he has to offer..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
May 27th, 2007 at 11:07 am
wouldnt it be great if labour gave him a seat but he ended up backing national haha
not sure if the lapdog is capable of it now.
as for her trying to govern with 35% of the vote – she did in 96!!!
god i hate MMP
May 27th, 2007 at 11:11 am
Ooops … in my posting I forgot to pose the important question re NZF … when are they going to pay the money back.
Two months ago Winston First said a statement and cheque was due shortly, shortly, shortly, shortly, shortly, shortly. When, when, when?
May 27th, 2007 at 11:32 am
Ross
Clayton Cosgrove would never agree to such an arrangement. He has never been on the list and has refused even token rankings that holders of some safe Labour seats have. His philosophy is the people of Waimakariri elect me and I sink or swim on their vote. I’d imagine his centre-right leaning and his generally conservative moral views would mean a very low list ranking as the party tends to prefer women, secular progressive liberals, unionists, gays and Maori to offer a ‘balanced’ list. Even though National got more party votes than Labour in the mortgage belt seat, Cosgrove managed a large majority in 2005 (over 5,000) against a high profile National candidate who got in on National’s list (Kate Wilkinson) so that says alot about his cross party support. The tide would have to go out on Labour even more than the latest Digipoll shows for him to lose his seat.
There is also bad blood between him and Ron Mark as they have been rivals for that seat with Mark at one stage claiming to be Mike Moore’s heir apparent due to once being one of the Mike’s key lieutenants back in 1994 when Moore flirted with forming a centrist party. Clayton was always going to get the nod due to a close mentoring relationship between him and Mike. It is also important to note that Cosgrove keeps the paid Labour Party membership in Waimakariri over the magic 500 threshold sufficient to have 3 local LEC (Labour Electorate Committee) delegates to match the Labour Head Office automatic 3 on the electorate selection panel. This ensured that the head office preferred candidate to succeed Moore (who was a third rate local Union hack) was defeated in favour of Cosgrove.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:35 am
PhilU
As I have posted before
Thinking is such a time consuming process for you
May 27th, 2007 at 11:51 am
I can see what’s in it for Labour
They would have another fully tamed poodle like Blanderton, but there’s not much in it for Winston apart from a salary and the party’s supporters would know it, might be better to face the inevitable at this election and try for a parliamentary comeback in 2011 or 2014
May 27th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
Bob Clarkson is most definitely NOT a moron but if the Labour Party think he is then that shows their extreme ignorance on what Kiwis respect. Those Labour people are the sort of people who would take a Union Official and have them sign up to all the latest causes and they think that is someone to respect. Even better if the person is gay. But if Peters owes his survival in Pariament to the Labour Party under some dodgy deal then people voting NZF are merely voting for the Labour Party. It will not work.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
‘it’s a red-letter day..!
chicky/birdy did a comment’
Ummm Phule – I’m six two, 108kg, in my early 40′s and covered in tattoos, so you mixing me up with Chuck just makes you look like your name. Phule.
Also you seem to imply that I am some sort of homophobe. Please supply proof of this accusation or withdraw it.
kthxby.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
The deal is in Tauranga where Labour will not be standing a candidate. That deal was negotiated from the start and Labour has used it to keep Winston in line. The boundaries have not changed in Tauranga which will make things easier for Peters to make a come-back. There will a huge fan fair regarding the new harbour bridge, no tolls of course and Winston will pour the first concerete and it will be called the Peters bridge.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Kiwi in america … agree pretty much with your analysis although the boundary changes have not favoured Labour.
So, in terms of the article, the question remains ‘where to for Mark’ … Ilam’s not goer and all the other seats are held by Labour or JAP. So, which sitting Labour MP is going to be seen off with a high list ranking and the promise of a posting to Ottawa in the unlikely chance of a Labour win …. Barnett, Dyson or Dalziel or Wigram perhaps???
May 27th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
What are the chances people will remember Winston swore he and his party would stay on the cross benches then did a complete arse about face betraying everyone who voted for the liar? And since then he has been floating around the world enjoying himself and ignoring his party going down the drain. He set up better NZ/US relations and while Helen tried to smile while suffering Bush, she sent Winston to South America. Ron Mark is just full of meaningless words, as evidenced by his frequently broken promises on Radio Pacific, and his only meaningful actions are to give the fingers in Parliament. Does anyone seriously believe Labour would throw away a seat on these losers?
May 27th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
chuck bird and chicken little are connected only on an avian level..
nothing to withdraw/see here..!
chuck bird is an avowed homophobe..
over and out..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
May 27th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
DPF: You state Labour have no empathy at all for the notion that the money belongs to you in the first place.
You are quite right. Remember Labour over spent their election allowance, and I allege being bankrupt at the time, they were able to extricate themselves from this embarrassing position by having someone misappropriate Helen Clark’s Leader’s Funds enabling them to pay outstanding invoices. Then they passed laws validating what I term was theft of Parliamentary Services (Taxpayer’s Money).
Members of Parliament then abused their position as lawmakers to validate, what I allege was a breach of the Crimes Act 1961 viz Theft.
I also allege that Members of Parliament in using their position as MPs to pass a law validating a crime, have breached the same law that police are using to seek to bring a prosecution against MP Philip Field..
Viz. MPs have used their position to advantage themselves to the disadvantage of us taxpayers and those that have also breached the Crimes Act and have been prosecuted.
Show me that they havn’t.
Frank
May 27th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
DPF: You state Labour have no empathy at all for the notion that the money belongs to you in the first place.
You are quite right. Remember Labour over spent their election allowance, and I allege being bankrupt at the time, they were able to extricate themselves from this embarrassing position by having someone misappropriate Helen Clark’s Leader’s Funds enabling them to pay outstanding invoices. Then they passed laws validating what I term was theft of Parliamentary Services (Taxpayer’s Money).
Members of Parliament then abused their position as lawmakers to validate, what I allege was a breach of the Crimes Act 1961 viz Theft.
I also allege that Members of Parliament in using their position as MPs to pass a law validating a crime, have breached the same law that police are using to seek to bring a prosecution against MP Philip Field..
Viz. MPs have used their position to advantage themselves to the disadvantage of us taxpayers and those that have also breached the Crimes Act and have been prosecuted.
Show me that they havn’t.
Frank
May 27th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
People have written off winston before. I used to dislike him intensely, but its all relative in this political landscape. If nz politics was a sewer, peters is a cockroach: very hard to kill off. clarkson is merely a turd riding on a stream of effluent.
Pedro (ps. chuck i don’t have to tell you my sirname you conservative chode: why ask me what have i acheived, what the fuck have you achieved? this isn’t a tool to promote our own egos, its for discussing politicians)
May 27th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
Three words will consign Peters and his party to the annals of history – “Baubles Of Office” – Winston misled the faithful, and not for the first time – anyone remember his “Toxic Trio” remarks in 1996, directed at National, Act & the Christian Coalition? Then who did he jump into bed with? As others have noted, Winston will do what suits Winston.
Then again “I’m happy to be the MP for Mount Albert” has a certain gravitas to it!!!
May 27th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
Hum… I guess the first response is that any alleged ‘news’ story in the Sunday Smear-Lies should be presumed to be fiction until proven otherwise.
Having said that, I would love the story to be true. I know people in Wellington who still say they’d never vote National again after the deals that were done in Wellington Central and Ohariu-Belmont. Strange as it may sound, there are still folks out there who think they elect the legislature, not back room johnnies treating Parliamentary seats like their personal kingdoms.
May 27th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Inventory2 -
“Three words will consign Peters and his party to the annals of history – “Baubles Of Office” – Winston misled the faithful, and not for the first time”
And if that doesn’t do it, depsite it being Winston First, when it comes to paying back stolen taxes, it’s Winston Last – or may be Winston Not At All.
May 27th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
I can’t see this being workable. Labour only gains if NZF can pick up some significant party support. This will be difficult for three reasons. First, I think the electorate has wised up to Winston’s scaremongering on crime and immigration; especially since he has been in government and done very little for these issues. Second, his position as foreign minister has meant very little spotlight this term, resulting in low NZF polling. Finally, if he promised to support Labour prior to the election he would kill off the remaining support that NZF gets from right-leaning voters. Also, with National being so popular I don’t see any guarantee that Winston will hold a “safe” seat.
Still, it shows how seriously Labour takes the MMP environment. This has been National’s short-coming. No matter how good their polling is, there is simply no way that the electorate will give them 50% of the vote. So unless they can line up some suitable coalition partners then Labour could conceivably form another minority government in ’08. John Key’s shift to the center should open up room for a right-leaning conservative party, as well as increased support for Act. Unfortunately this hasn’t happened yet. Hopefully Rodney, Gordon et al. can get their act together as the election approaches.
May 27th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
NZers do not want ACT, and Key is advised to steer well clear of them, which he has done so far. I don’t see that changing.
Look for a coalition with the Maori Party.
May 27th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
David, the headline of this thread is self answering to anybody who has followed the lies, deceit, fraud and general immoral behaviour of this regime since they came to power.
There is nothing they will not do to cling to the reins of power.
They would see NZ empty into Australia and see us fall further down the OECD league table to continue supping from the public cup.
In any other western democracy half of them would have been in prison by now.
May 27th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
‘No matter how good their polling is, there is simply no way that the electorate will give them 50% of the vote.’
That’s a very brave prediction nickgavey. You been out smoking with phil? Care to elaborate on why the electorate will not give the Gnats 50+%?
May 27th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Frank, spamming kiwiblog with your arguments and letters doesn’t make you more convincing. It just makes you seem obsessed. People are always suspicious of those obsessed with their own rightness.
You may be right, you may be wrong, but your current strategy isn’t convincing. Why not take some time off to study how other people have managed to successfully persaude others of controversial points. Don’t repeat a losing strategy. Learn. Adapt.
May 27th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
“In any other western democracy half of them would have been in prison by now.”
Amen to that fact Barnsley Bill , never a more truthful statement .
May 27th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
More bad news ahead for Helen by the sounds of things – just caught a one News promo for tonight – “It’s a landslide – the latest One-News/Colmar Brunton poll – and it’s not just the party vote either”
TV3, Roy Morgan, NZ Herald & Colmar Brunton – are you getting the message Helen? You’ve outlived your usefulness!
May 27th, 2007 at 5:37 pm
being NAT dave farrar means that you don’t realise how weak you people are, sure helengrad is dead but winston promotes policy that can work for NZ, not like NAT leader who invite police officer to adjudicate on domestic matters, dave, duhh, winston guaranteed 5% plus, my vote included
peterquixote
May 27th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
nickgavey, your proposition about the Gnats and 50% of the vote just got a bit of a kick in the arse from Colmar Brunton’s voters who just gave John Key a staggering 56% of the party vote. Oh yeah, Wiston got 2% and the Greens only 6^
What a bastard it must be, being a leftie. They have to argue that Howard is buggered because of the opinion polls and Clark is God in spite of the opinion polls.
You know she’s got problems when even TVNZ news staff are telling you she’s stuffed.
Surprisingly though, Fran Moll wasn’t outside Clark’s place screaming in her awful raucus voice “When are you going to resign Mrs David, when are you going to resign????????????”
May 27th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
56%
F**k me dead
May 27th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
f**king great! Which other highly talented personalities will national dredge up to take advantage of NZer’s electoral perceptiveness? How about Je Lan Brash, Hillary style? Maybe reinject some experience- John Banks anyone? How about some tech-savvy young blood: Mr Farrar please stand up! Pity though, I think Peter Burns won’t want to be part of it anymore after John Key came to the S59 party. Maybe the Nats could overturn it with their sexy majority? F**k, I’m looking forward to those CPI indexed benefits, the streamlined health system with all the waste (and organs??) cut out, the inflationary tax cuts, the lets-use-some-buzz-words-to-win-over-the-electorate-without -announcing-any-effective-policy carbon reduction, the decrease in prison crowding and violence despite harsher and longer sentences, the better environment for manafacturers despite increased market liberalisation. Oh yeah and clarkson will be happy cos all those muslims can “go back to islam or iraq”. I’m looking forward to a world where everything is going to be going so well in every government department and state-influenced sector that there won’t be calls for accountability every time some clerk wastes a sheet of paper or loses a paperclip. What a wonderful world.
May 27th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
Doesn’t matter what Labour do looking at the latest poll results the question should be – Will Clark and Cullin still be there when spring breaks, answer “NO”.
Oh baby having to sit through the muck of these lying, dishonest pack of bastards has been very difficult but watching these two being fed to the wolves will go someway to exorsizing 2 demons at least!
May 27th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
Kent Parker no one seems to have taken issue with your 10.22am post but having just read it I will do so even if slightly off track..
I do not know Bob Clarkson but, he strikes me as a good honest hard working bloke with his heart in the right place. Just the sort that Parliament needs more of – especially if one is a rural New Zealander as I am.
If Labour needs a translation when he speaks I am sure Maharay will be able to assist – he seems to have a propensity for using the language you refer to and which I prefer not to use in a forum such as this.
Adolf I see you are on this thread – is Sir Humphrey’s finished? Apologies for again being off track.
May 27th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
Hello pdm. No Sir Humps is not finished. I expect we will be back on air tomorrow or maybe Tuesday. I must say I have been surprised at the number of invitations to join other blogs. I’m gratified and humbled (well momentarily at least) by these offers but as a founding Sir Humper I feel I should ride out the temporary storm. A combination of distraction on the part of AL 9who owns the site) and some serious technical changes needed. Bernard is slaving away on these and next time he’s in Auckland the Auckland Sir Humpers will shout him a slap up feed somewhere.
May 27th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
National up 7 to 56%
Labour down 7 to 31%
Key up 9 to 38%
Clark down 10 to 27%
Is any further commentary needed?
May 27th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Did anyone else hear Ron Mark referred to as an Opposition MP on tonight’s One News? Surely that must be grounds for a complaint to the Broadcasting Standards Tribunal.
May 27th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
Adolf –
I would be delighted if National did win 50% of the vote. I would be even more happy if John Key used this majority to slash taxes, gut the RMA, and generally make NZ a better place.
However realistically I don’t see this happening. In an MMP environment I don’t think voters want single parties to have the power to make dramatic change in a short time, as happened under Muldoon and Lange governments. So assuming all goes well for National, I predict that they will poll around 50% until the election, then some of their support will drop off to minor parties.
As evidence of this, I would refer to the 2002 election. Recall that Labour was polling around 50% leading into the election. Just before the election the “worm turned” and the minor parties witnessed a sudden increase in support. Of course there are some wily political operators in the Labour party, so 2008 is not a done deal for the right by any stretch.
May 27th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
It is profoundly unsettling to realise that the “baubly wailing Winnie” may influence the result of the next election. God bless MMP.
May 27th, 2007 at 9:26 pm
Winnie’s acceptance of such a lifeline will be beyond hilarious.
Keep ‘em honest matey…..all the mine canaries died long ago.
Only in NZ.
May 27th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
Check the stamp on Winnie’s forehead. It reads..’Past-his-use-by-date’
May 28th, 2007 at 8:30 am
The latest polls show’s national’s real utter stupidity in running Clarkson against Winston
Because Brash – and noone else here – really gets MMP.
Had Brash not tried to destroy Winston – Winston would be Foreign Minister in a National Government TODAY.
National needs to be saying ever single day to Winston and to Dunne and to the Maori Party (and even too the Greens) that
the labour party is widely considered corrupt and has clearly lost the confidence of NZ
And we could have a new government tomorrow, that could cut taxes, bump up Maori TV funding, get another 5000 police, do somthing for the Christians (repeal sec 59?) – most importantly establish an independent commission against Labour party corruption (headed say by Prebs with executive and judicial powers) — and then hold an election…
Only attack Dunne, Winston and all the rest if you can wipe them out. Otherwise, well, what do you expect
May 28th, 2007 at 10:50 am
Pedro says, “I’m looking forward to those CPI indexed benefits,”
I was going ignore your abusive diatribe until I read you next post.
It looks like I struck a raw nerve when I asked you what you have achieved after your inane comment about Bob Clarkson being a moron. He could be labeled as arrogant or a clown but not a moron. Morons do not become self made multi millionaires. Only a no hoper who never accomplished anything in their lives would not realize this.
I can understand some people not wanting to use their real name because of their job. What are you worried about – if National gets in they might make you get a job?
May 30th, 2007 at 8:57 am
see this is the point chuck: “Morons do not become self made multi millionaires. Only a no hoper who never accomplished anything in their lives would not realize this.” This is the difference between shrivelled conservative hacks like you and the rest of the world: you judge that the amount of money someone has made is a very telling factor about them, that it neccesarily has great importance in gauging their worth. However nonetheless, I believe clarkson is patently a moron, when compared with standards of what we as new zealanders expect from public figures.
No I am not unemployed, I am probably, like you, in the top 10-20% economically in this country. I just don’t resent welfare for others. No, I’m not a homosexual commmunist either.