A fake rape register
June 9th, 2007 at 9:40 am by David FarrarIt turns out the woman who made the false complaint about being raped by someone impersonating a police officer has made false rape complaints before – in fact four of them.
Her lawyer has called for Police to maintain a register of such false (which is different to unproven) complaints. I agree, and am staggered that the Police don’t already do this. He points out that her latest complaint may not have ended up costing as much as it did, if the Police were aware of her previous history.
Council for Civil Liberties president Tony Ellis has hysterically compared the idea of a register to conjuring up “apartheid-type thoughts”. What dope is that man smoking? Apartheid?
Somewhat more sanely he argues “a register might result in anyone who had previously made a false complaint not being treated equally”.
Well yes it might, but as with the boy who cried wolf, this applies to everything in life. If you go bankrupt three or four times, people are less likely to invest in your companies. If you get sacked from your last three jobs, you are less likely to be employed.
Now I would certainly not advocate that someone who has previously made false complaints, is automatically not believed. But Police should have info on any previous false complaints, so they can make a judgement call.
I agree with Women’s Refuge that there should also be a register of convicted sex offenders and abusers of women. Absolutely. Convictions for serious crimes are not a private matter, and in my opinion all serious violent and sexual criminals should be in a public searchable directory.
The Sensible Sentencing Trust does have an offender database, but it is somewhat clunky.
Related posts:
- More on false rape allegations
- Alleged rape victim charged with making a false complaint
- False rape complaints
- Fake Rape Claims
June 9th, 2007 at 11:28 am
Its time they made a new entry in DSM IV.
Vote:Fake rape complaints can be a separate mental disorder.
Is it the ‘man drought’ which leads 40 something women, which have university qualifications ( she was a pharmacist), but no chance of ‘keeping’ a male partner to think that this would be an answer to their problems
June 9th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Who needs the Police to investigate such an allegation when one can just make a quick phone call to Joe Karam for the answer.
Vote:June 9th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
If she lived in the area at the time she made a previous complaint I would find it impossible to believe that no-one at the division had no previous knowledge of her. Likewise if the complaint had been recorded previously a check would bring it up. I suspect that this complaint was so serious a firearm and suspected Police Officer the offender that the Officer’s In Charge had no alternative but to treat the complaint as credible given the number of allegations recently made of Police Sex Offenders.
Vote:June 9th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
Somewhat more sanely he argues “a register might result in anyone who had previously made a false complaint not being treated equally”.
Well yes it might, but as with the boy who cried wolf, this applies to everything in life. If you go bankrupt three or four times, people are less likely to invest in your companies. If you get sacked from your last three jobs, you are less likely to be employed.
Comparing rape to being bankrupt or being sacked? How about a little proportion here, DPF?
Genuine question: are false rape claims a big enough problem in NZ to warrent a register? I wouldn’t have thought so.
Vote:June 9th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
AAL, how would you know? What is ‘…a big enough problem…? I rechon one recidivist complainer is enugh for a register.
Vote:June 9th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
DPF states: “It turns out the woman who made the false complaint about being raped by someone impersonating a police officer has made false rape complaints before – in fact four of them.”
The article does not say she has made four false RAPE complaints before – it says she has made false allegations before.
Also, the article states only 4% of rape complaints are false, so the register would be very small indeed.
Linda Axford
Vote:June 9th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
Hurry up and get Adolf his requested spell-checker, the poor boy is an example that NCEA is in fact tragically failing our children.
Vote:June 9th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
We don’t really know anything when it comes to research that is based on feminist ideology so I wouldn’t say that only 4% of rape claims are false. I see numerous stats that are all different and groups including politicians will use what suits their agenda.
I personally don’t think we should be putting people on files too often as they have free will and deserve a second chance. People do change. What has happened is wrong IMO but we can never completely eradicate every scenario. As for databasing Domestic Violence, that’s over the top. If you look at what Domestic Violence is and what sexual assualt is you will find we are all guilty of it. Sadly only men are considered to be perpertrators. If a man looks at a women the wrong way at work, sexual assualt, if a man humiliates a women, domestic abuse. The system is rigged, we all know that, if we are honest. Not one of us eventually will be free. But never mind if the world bank finds a chip that can be inserted to every human being on earth except their chosen few we will all be databased for every move we make. KEEP GREEDOM, I say.
Vote:June 9th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
We don’t really know anything when it comes to research that is based on feminist ideology so I wouldn’t say that only 4% of rape claims are false. I see numerous stats that are all different and groups including politicians will use what suits their agenda.
I personally don’t think we should be putting people on files too often as they have free will and deserve a second chance. People do change. What has happened is wrong IMO but we can never completely eradicate every scenario. As for databasing Domestic Violence, that’s over the top. If you look at what Domestic Violence is and what sexual assualt is you will find we are all guilty of it. Sadly only men are considered to be perpertrators. If a man looks at a women the wrong way at work, sexual assualt, if a man humiliates a women, domestic abuse. The system is rigged, we all know that, if we are honest. Not one of us eventually will be free. But never mind if the world bank finds a chip that can be inserted to every human being on earth except their chosen few we will all be databased for every move we make. KEEP FREEDOM, I say.
Vote:June 9th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
We don’t really know anything when it comes to research that is based on feminist ideology so I wouldn’t say that only 4% of rape claims are false. I see numerous stats that are all different and groups including politicians will use what suits their agenda.
I personally don’t think we should be putting people on files too often as they have free will and deserve a second chance. People do change. What has happened is wrong IMO but we can never completely eradicate every scenario. As for databasing Domestic Violence, that’s over the top. If you look at what Domestic Violence is and what sexual assualt is you will find we are all guilty of it. Sadly only men are considered to be perpertrators. If a man looks at a women the wrong way at work, sexual assualt, if a man humiliates a women, domestic abuse. The system is rigged, we all know that, if we are honest. Not one of us eventually will be free. But never mind if the world bank finds a chip that can be inserted to every human being on earth except their chosen few we will all be databased for every move we make. KEEP FREEDOM, I say.
Vote:June 9th, 2007 at 8:52 pm
We don’t really know anything when it comes to research that is based on feminist ideology so I wouldn’t say that only 4% of rape claims are false. I see numerous stats that are all different and groups including politicians will use what suits their agenda.
I personally don’t think we should be putting people on files too often as they have free will and deserve a second chance. People do change. What has happened is wrong IMO but we can never completely eradicate every scenario. As for databasing Domestic Violence, that’s over the top. If you look at what Domestic Violence is and what sexual assualt is you will find we are all guilty of it. Sadly only men are considered to be perpertrators. If a man looks at a women the wrong way at work, sexual assualt, if a man humiliates a women, domestic abuse. The system is rigged, we all know that, if we are honest. Not one of us eventually will be free. But never mind if the world bank finds a chip that can be inserted to every human being on earth except their chosen few we will all be databased for every move we make. KEEP FREEDOM, I say.
Vote:June 9th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
Well, that didn’t go well. Can you please delete 3 of the above comments
Vote:June 9th, 2007 at 9:54 pm
Nah a register is too nazi like and open to abuse, This women got appropriate justice. As males we simply have to treat women with respect in sexual trysts etc. If they make false accusations we rely on common law.
Selma… DSM 4 has antisocial personality disorder for these fruitcakes. Man drought….yeah thats a good excuse!!!!!
Vote:June 9th, 2007 at 10:11 pm
“only” 4% of rape claims are false? “ONLY”???
How much more than that would it have to be before it is impossible to achieve the “beyond resonable doubt” standard required to convict in the absense of direct physical evidence or independent first hand witnesses?
Vote:June 9th, 2007 at 10:28 pm
Selma Bouvier : but no chance of ‘keeping’ a male partner to think that this would be an answer to their problems
Selma, has any guy start chatting you up at the bus stop yet? If not, then why not? How about if you can give me a description of what you look like so that next time I see you at the bus stop, then I can chat you up? Perhaps, we can go for a coffee or a drink somewhere?
Vote:June 9th, 2007 at 10:50 pm
Civil Liberties, it seems, is anything but. ‘Twas only the other day they were attacking the acquittal of that gun-shop guy, because this Tony Ellis believes in gun control and thinks the police should have laid a more serious charge against the guy.
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 3:13 am
“…a register of convicted sex offencers and abusers of women” – What about abusers of men and children. What about a Children’s Refuge as well as a Women’s Refuge? When I was a child, I went to a Women’s Refuge along with my mother for a little while to escape abuse, which was ironic really since it wasn’t a woman per se that was the one being abused, it was me. Since I wasn’t an adult, though, it was like I wasn’t a proper entity to the authorities.
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 6:33 am
It’s a bloody great idea. Rape is one of the worst possible crimes and it ruins lives.
If a person is falsely accused of this crime then the accuser should be named and shamed. No ifs or buts. Just like all rapists should be named and shamed.
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 6:56 am
Good morning huckster dyke MADam speaker selma. Please you twisted silver grey haired possum can you tell me if you know if anyone has ever asked the Minister of Injustice or Erections – why Government do not actually collect any statistics on how many women make false allegations of domestic violence, child abuse , baton rape, etc. to our judicial system, and or how it is actually possible to effectively evaluate any safe guard which are said to be in place to protect men from false allegations of abuse in court if they do not collect this information ?
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 7:49 am
> Fake rape complaints can be a separate mental disorder.
Right, Selma. But if a man rapes a woman, presumably he’s not suffering from the same disorder? Thought not.
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 7:49 am
> Fake rape complaints can be a separate mental disorder.
Right, Selma. But if a man rapes a woman, presumably he’s not suffering from the same disorder? Thought not.
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 7:55 am
> The article does not say she has made four false RAPE complaints before – it says she has made false allegations before.
On the TV news it was stated that two of her false complaints were for ape, one was for assault and the other for being stalked. I find it remarkable that you can make two false rape complaints and not even be charged. This certainly puts the Louise Nicholas case in some context.
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 7:55 am
> The article does not say she has made four false RAPE complaints before – it says she has made false allegations before.
On the TV news it was stated that two of her false complaints were for ape, one was for assault and the other for being stalked. I find it remarkable that you can make two false rape complaints and not even be charged. This certainly puts the Louise Nicholas case in some context.
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 7:57 am
> The article does not say she has made four false RAPE complaints before – it says she has made false allegations before.
On the TV news it was stated that two of her false complaints were for ape, one was for assault and the other for being stalked. I find it remarkable that you can make two false rape complaints and not even be charged. This certainly puts the Louise Nicholas case in some context.
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 7:57 am
> The article does not say she has made four false RAPE complaints before – it says she has made false allegations before.
On the TV news it was stated that two of her false complaints were for rape, one was for assault and the other for being stalked. I find it remarkable that you can make two false rape complaints and not even be charged. This certainly puts the Louise Nicholas case in some context.
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 7:57 am
> The article does not say she has made four false RAPE complaints before – it says she has made false allegations before.
On the TV news it was stated that two of her false complaints were for rape, one was for assault and the other for being stalked. I find it remarkable that you can make two false rape complaints and not even be charged. This certainly puts the Louise Nicholas case in some context.
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 8:45 am
False allegations is a big time business in New Zealand .
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 9:47 am
Police have been quoted in three articles in the last year giving three different figures of false rape conplaint occurance.
1. Said 60-80 percent which I feel is well too high.
2. Said between 50-60 percent which is probably still a little high.
3. Tony Grieg ex CIB in the Press was quotted as saying about 1 in 3, which sounds more realistic.
A register is not a great idea although serial complainers station hop so that makes it harder for the police to trace them.
There are several factors associated with serial accusers, so these warning signs should be noted according to several well respected experts on false rape claims.
http://www.fmsfonline.org/ ( this has some interesting comments )
They appear to be white middle class and well educated, and have struggled to gain independence or deal with perceived pressure from peers or family.
A history of anxiety, depression, para suicides, self-mutilation, Borderline Personality, DID, obsessive compulsive, or eating disorders seem to be prevalent, phobias.
Someone with a history of seperation anxiety from a youngster and usually from a successful background.
Has had long term therapy especially with psychotherapy and recovered memory tendencies.
Drug and alcohol abuser.
BTW, I felt very sorry for Nicola May. She has a lot of problems and needs help, but she did not deliberately target any individual.
Vote:My life as I have previously stated was devestated by false rape allegations, but I admire anyone that is honest enough to front and admit they have a problem. I sincerely hope she gets the help she needs and finds some peace.
June 10th, 2007 at 10:44 am
Ross what’s with the multiple postings???? You’ve been enlightening us all with your postings for long time now, surely you could’ve worked out how to post just the once…. False rape is henious and proven complainants should be dealt with harshly by the courts. A false accusation register could be established to flag previous liars to the police which would give them another avenue to pursue. In this case they were running tandem inquiries at the outset so I’m unsure why they suspected all was not as it seemed but certainly they were suspicious enough to be investigating the complainant at the same time investigating her complaint. Like Paula I hope she gets the help she needs and although I am pleased she has been made to confront her offending that there was not a targeted campaign to intentionally ruin a specific individual is somewhat a redeeming factor IMHO.
Vote:There of course needs to be a rape, violent offender and sexual predator register too. People who break the law should be relieved of some of their civil liberties.
Ross finds it remarkable that ÿou can make two false rape complaints and not be charged….. She was Ross!!! and ordered to reimburse police $10 000 and undertake some community sentence. We have some common ground actually Ross…. cos I find it remarkable that the same perpetrators are named for the same crime by a number of different parties and they are not convicted!!! and that’s why the case BOUGHT BY Louise Nicholas generated so much support for her. Puts it in context really!
I’l just submit this the once Ross, but feel free to reread it any number of times should you wish.
June 10th, 2007 at 11:48 am
Lisa, try reading the posts. Ross was correct. She made two previous false rape complaints and was not charged. She was only charged after the third very public complaint.
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
Chuck Bird I am happy to stand corrected. I understood that the 2nd false rape complaint was the current high profile one that she was in fact charged for.So this is actually her 5th false complaint then??? I am heartened to see that she didn’t receive name suppression and she also fronted up (albeit somewhat reluctantly it seems) to the media and expressed her remorse and undertook to get appropriate support. She also appeared to be somewhat humble which all seems to me to be positive predictors for rehabilitation. Unlike the two serial rapists currently in jail for henious crimes against multiple women who contain to proudly & staunchly protest their innocence!!
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Lisa rape is a beastly/ heinous crime and the guilty often plead innocence from a cell after sentence and nobody is disputing this fact, however some balance must be injected into your stance, as serious credibility issues relating to the complainant’s character are an important factor in this case. The historical representative false allegations should profile forensic patterned behaviour, while the judiciary condones this wrongful conduct that has had serious affects on her victims. Its great to see she has support mechanisms to help her these difficult times, but a man is left without any support agencies assistance? By the way where were these agencies when previous lies were made to police? This makes this issue a gender preference issue, as a man constantly clogging the system with sexual abuse lies against a women without question would get long jail time my dear.
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
Can anyone tell me if the police hold registers of other ‘false’ allegations?
To Paula Weir: what makes you think 1 in 3 rapes have been made up? This figure seems ridiculously high when Women’s Refuge have given a figure of 4%.
Linda Axford
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Forgive me if someone has already said this but: wouldn’t maintaining a false rape register be a bit dangerous if a potential rapist were to get his hands on it?
Just a thought.
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
You are right d4j! Where is the help for all the falsely accused men spat out of the system when the rape claims against them are proven to be false?.
Who helps their children and partners?.
Not victim support that’s for sure, or any of the women’s ageencies.
One of the main reasons there has been an increasing negative attitude towards Rape Crisis and associated agencies, is the failure of these support centres to act in a more sympathetic way to the falsely accused.
A Judge wrote an explanation the second time the false accuser brought the false rape allegations in a different court against us and did not front, which told us he believed the accuser had not deliberately hurt and manipulated, she was just delusional and had been backed into a corner she had not expected to be stuck in.
This provided little comfort and I still struggle with this when she was able to change the dates of the alleged rapes everytime she was confronted with alibis and negative DNA evidence, and despite the fact she knew my children and I were suffering tremendously.
I guess I was even more skepitcal when everything was over, and she falsely accused me of sending threatening packages and managed at a different police station to get a Criminal Order against me which still stands.
I have tremendous sympathy for someone who feels they need to make these claims, but serial accusers need to acknowledge they have a problem before they can be helped and Nicola May is a long way towards this.
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
The company I worked for had a woman in her late 30′s who made a complaint against a female Japanese guide who gave her a massage and apparently went “goey”. The silly manager sent the complainee a letter and she quit. Same women made baseless (in this case) allegations about other (male) employees. To her mind intention was enough.
Vote:They are out there.
June 10th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Dear Linda said – “Can anyone tell me if the police hold registers of other ‘false’ allegations?”
No .
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Paula police are on record as saying – “we investigate complaints of alleged offending not alleged false allegations ”
Hardly fair play from police .
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
> Unlike the two serial rapists currently in jail for henious crimes against multiple women who contain to proudly & staunchly protest their innocence!!
Well, I’ll take your word for it that they’re serial rapists. But you miss the point that they’re in prison. After five false complaints, including three for rape, Nicola May is not. I’m sure Women’s Refuge will be organising a protest march at this injustice.
> wouldn’t maintaining a false rape register be a bit dangerous if a potential rapist were to get his hands on it?
A potential rapist could target Nicola May now. There are false rape allegations cited at http://www.peterellis.org.nz, so if someone was inclined to target someone who had made such allegations, they could do so (although in some instances the women are very lucky to have been granted name suppression – another injustice).
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
> Unlike the two serial rapists currently in jail for henious crimes against multiple women who contain to proudly & staunchly protest their innocence!!
Well, I’ll take your word for it that they’re serial rapists. But you miss the point that they’re in prison. After five false complaints, including three for rape, Nicola May is not. I’m sure Women’s Refuge will be organising a protest march at this injustice.
> wouldn’t maintaining a false rape register be a bit dangerous if a potential rapist were to get his hands on it?
A potential rapist could target Nicola May now. There are false rape allegations cited at http://www.peterellis.org.nz, so if someone was inclined to target someone who had made such allegations, they could do so (although in some instances the women are very lucky to have been granted name suppression – another injustice).
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
> Unlike the two serial rapists currently in jail for henious crimes against multiple women who contain to proudly & staunchly protest their innocence!!
Well, I’ll take your word for it that they’re serial rapists. But you miss the point that they’re in prison. After five false complaints, including three for rape, Nicola May is not. I’m sure Women’s Refuge will be organising a protest march at this injustice.
> wouldn’t maintaining a false rape register be a bit dangerous if a potential rapist were to get his hands on it?
A potential rapist could target Nicola May now. There are false rape allegations cited at http://www.peterellis.org.nz, so if someone was inclined to target someone who had made such allegations, they could do so (although in some instances the women are very lucky to have been granted name suppression – another injustice).
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
The Victim Support Industry is geared up to treat every male as a rapist – guilty from first call from cops . Radical Feminists have caused this .Balance please -good fathers should not be made criminals without fair justice !
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
False allegations if you work around kids like Peter Ellis or a father to young girls -like me – all the lies often go into a Victim Impact Report and that’s that – off to prison – do not collect $200 !
Hang in there Peter Ellis as JUSTICE is coming and nobody will have the power to stop it .
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
And you’re a good father d4j?. Do us all a favour you horrid piece of shit and keep the details of your miserable little tax payer funded life to yourself.
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 3:52 pm
Typical nasty stuff from a rat in the corner – good bye I have said my bit !
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
There is no need for a register every official contact you have with the Police is recorded and easily retrievable. In addition there is a Modus Operandi Branch which was manual in my day, but is now almost certainly computorised. Enter the name or PRN and back she comes. Describe the method and you get a list of suspects. I’ve little doubt the investigators would have been aware of this woman’s history.
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Off you go then but keep your hands off those kids.
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
I bet you a $1000 bucks you would not say that to my face . You know – man to man !!
Vote:June 10th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
Actually, I think D4K works better as blank verse
Good morning huckster dyke MADam speaker selma.
Please you twisted silver grey haired possum
can you tell me if you know if anyone has ever
asked the Minister of Injustice or Erections
why Government do not actually collect any
statistics
on how many women make false allegations of
domestic violence
child abuse
baton rape
etc. to our judicial system, and
or how it is actually possible to effectively evaluate
any safe guard
which are said to be in place to protect men from false allegations of
abuse in court
if they do not collect this information ?
False allegations is a big time business in New Zealand .
Dear Linda said – “Can anyone tell me
if the police hold registers
of other ‘false’ allegations?”
No .
Paula police are on record as saying –
Vote:“we investigate complaints of alleged offending not alleged false allegations ”
Hardly fair play from police .
The Victim Support Industry is
geared up to treat every male
as a rapist
guilty from first call from
cops . Radical Feminists have caused this
Balance please -good fathers should not be
made criminals without fair justice !
False allegations if you work around kids like Peter Ellis or a father
to young girls
like me
all the lies often go into a Victim Impact Report and that’s that
off to prison
do not collect $200 !
Typical nasty stuff from a rat in the corner – good bye I have said my bit
I bet you a $1000 bucks you would not say that
to my face . You know – man
to man !!
June 10th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
You are a sad wanker Danyl McLauchlan .
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 7:37 am
So nice of Danyl to make light of the crime of rape into a rather silly bit of poetry.
Make the list available to police or part of a database so that once a name appears in any investigation a name can be matched immediately. False rape accusers are still ruining other peoples lives, so should be investigated and punished accordingly to their mental capacity.
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 8:33 am
Nicola May is obviously been pressured to admitting a false claim of rape. I was told by feminists at Uni way back in the early 1980s that
1) women never lie about rape.
2) all men are rapists.
Shame on you all for doubting her and believing that the figures for false rape allegations are i in 2, 1 in 3 or even 4 in a hundred!!
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 9:13 am
You know cyrus d4j, cyrus knows “everything” about you.
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 9:30 am
brian_smaller ~It seems inconceivable that you would have been taught such things…perhaps your recovered memory has misinterpreted the lectures??? You may need counselling to if you’ve harboured such bizarre thoughts since the 80′s. But on more serious note I am very nervous about the stats that are bandied around regarding false rape allegations; they are significantly different depending on who is releasing the stats!What I DO know is rape is still VERY under reported and when one reads these forums it is not difficult to understand why. Few dispute rape is a henious crime but very sadly many seem to have become suspicious that most rape allegations are false which does little to encourage rape survivors to seek prosecution of the rapsits. Furthermore there seems to be a groundswell of support for the notion that women who have made false allegations are FAR WORSE than the rapists themselves. I see that comparrison as akin to comparing a home invasion to a warehouse robbery; both are serious crimes however one involves violence against others and one does not. Both have serious consequences but the sequale of the home invasion is more likely to have personal consequences on the victims, more so than the business owners loss. That is not to be dismissive of the innocent victims of false allegations and one has only to have followed Paulas posts to get an appreciation for that. These targeted vindictive campaigns absolutely take a huge toll on the accused and their families. My hope is that women who have been raped are firstly and foremostly believed and are safe to report this henious, devastating crime. However should they be proven to be liars they should be slammed.My belief is that the statistics flying around are crap and that the incidence of false allegations would be very low. Meanwhile unreported rapes continue to be as high as they ever were.
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 10:02 am
Lisa,
I think it is time accurate statistics are kept.
It is impossible to get a clear picture of the incidences involved and the type of person making false claims of rape at present. I would like to know how many false accusers are coming through the mental health system, and my guess would be an extremely high number, and these would be the serial accusers who continued to make various allegations against men and get away with them.
I would bet most false accusers have Borderline Personality, Depression, Anxiety, or eating behaviours as a backdrop. While the claims they make are deceitful, manipulative, and cruel to the targetted individual the false accusers are probably so delusional they believe them to be true having had them reinforced by years of therapy, drug and alcohol abuse and in many cases ECT. This is particularly important when the police fail to investigate or confront the accuser, and therapists back the accuser into a tight corner from which there is no easy escape and they have to continue on with their claims.
I believe the police and in many cases Crown Prosecutors are still very naiive when it comes to mental illness. In our case even though it was clear that the claims were false and the accuser would not front to the criminal court, the prosecutor encouraged the accuser to try and settle the claims in another court to try and save face for the underhanded way she ( the prosecutor ) had behaved, in the process knowing fully she had caused serious mental anguish to four innocent children the real victims of her incompetence.
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 10:22 am
“You know cyrus d4j, cyrus knows “everything” about you.
Great stuff cyrus you must have been talking to the compassionate Rajen Prasad – New Zealand Families Commissioner ?
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 10:26 am
Or Justice John Hansen who wants big time change and rethink of New Zealand justice system after Helen Clark is removed from office .
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 10:30 am
Thank you cyrus for that – the bugs are working well today and I just waved to the spooks over the road !!
Ouch !
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 11:19 am
With all due respect Paula I dont think false accusers are a homogenous group who would all necessarily fit into your cluster of mental health disorders.Nor would I support your thinking that you would find a background of therapy, drug and alcohol abuse and particularly not ECT in most of these women. Thankfully ECT is a treatment used very judiciously now and only in people who present with severe depression that has not responed to other therapies.The reasons are likely to be many & varied, just as we would be likely to find if we profiled rapists and other criminals.I would however,suspect you are right in your assertion that some police prosecutors are somewhat out of their depth when dealing with people with mental health issues & I would also concede there are some therapists who pursue ‘victims’ so vigorously they cause much more damage than facilitate any healing the person may be seeking. This in no way provides any defence to women who then go a personal vendetta to ruin others lives with vicious and malicious claims such as you have experienced. I get very worried when these discussions arise as they seem to bring all sorts out of the woodwork and often people with the most to say appear to have a personal agenda & often have a less than healthy attitude to women in general. It is not difficult to understand how having suffered such injustice could leave you feeled so scathed but I hope this does not cloud your thinking for the rape survivors who also suffer much injustice on the back of such a loathsome and vile act of violence by rapists.Two very seperate issues that sadly have become intwined and have many people polarised and sitting in one camp or the other. We don’t need to. We can be outraged by both crimes.
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 11:36 am
With due respect Lisa – false allegations of rape are always made by manipulating and compulsive liars who cause so much heartbreak for so many . I have a man staying with me who has been falsely accused of representive rape of minor charges , he just said to me when his lying ex gets caught out bullshitting what will happen to her ? I said nothing will happen as the system couldn’t give a hoot 99.9% of the time .He said that is not fair . I said welcome to the feminist ball crushing machine !!
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Baxter’s answer is on the right track:
“There is no need for a register every official contact you have with the Police is recorded and easily retrievable.”
Statistics on false rape allegations would not be particularily useful seeing one person can make numerous false claims.
To Paula Weir, do you really believe 1 in 3 claims are fake? This number would indicate a huge problem for the police and society.
Also, you say: “..serial accusers who continued to make various allegations against men and get away with them.” Got anything to back this claim up, or does it come under your ‘I guess, I bet, or I think’ category?
Linda Axford
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
> I’ve little doubt the investigators would have been aware of this woman’s history.
But that doesn’t explain why the police spent 60K investigating her complaint.
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
> I’ve little doubt the investigators would have been aware of this woman’s history.
But that doesn’t explain why the police spent 60K investigating her complaint.
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
D4J I understand the frustration that would cause for your friend and it is not fair. Neither are lots of things and I always think we have a choice in how we deal with those curve balls life throws at us. We can become all consumed with them and allow that grievence to define us and this costs us big time as it often blurs our ability to enjoy life to the extent we should be able to. No matter what happens if we look hard enough we can still find beauty in the world. Now I know I risk ridicule in this sort of post but I’ve not ever let that stop me before! I often read your post D4J and sometimes laugh, sometimes feel sad and sometimes think uncharitable things that I shant recant to you. Always however I am left with a sense of bitterness and that leaves me feeling sad for you. Bitterness becomes all consuming and encroaches on our ability to enjoy our lives. And I don’t believe life is meant to be an endurance. Crap happens and how we deal with that is what matters most. I don’t know the full extent of your story ( and don’t need to!) but I do get a sense that you feel very aggrieved and this has ignited a fire in your belly to set about bringing social change. That’s not a bad thing & often it is our personal circumstances that does start us off on these crusades. This does not serve us well if it consumes our every waking moment, and it is unlikely to enhance the relationships we DO have with others if we are preoccupied with OUR issues 24/7. Make no mistake D4J women suffer huge injustices too and I don’t think that has much to do with what gender the PM is!!!
Vote:In my work with terminal patients the recurrent theme is ( and I’m paraphrasing here!!!) people wish they had taken more time to smell the roses…..
If you love the life you live D4J, you will live a life of love.
June 11th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Dear Ross
Vote:Just hit post ONCE and then the refresh button ( after few seconds) to see your post in print!!
Love, Lisa
June 11th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
> To Paula Weir, do you really believe 1 in 3 claims are fake? This number would indicate a huge problem for the police and society.
Linda, you seem to place a lot of faith in the unsubstantiated claim that only 4% of rape complaints are false. Maybe this will change your mind (but I won’t hold my breath).
Waikato Times
February 20 1999,
False Sex Complaint Rate High : Police
by Kris McGehan
Hamilton police are becoming increasingly frustrated with false sex complaints which make up a quarter of sex offences they investigate. Last year, 147 sex offences were reported to Hamilton police. More than one quarter (41) were found to be false. In the greater Waikato, police dealt with 297 sex offences last year and 77 proved groundless.
The high number of false accusations also create difficulties for genuine victims. Detective Senior Sergeant Mike Whitehead of Hamilton CIB said police tended to delve more closely into sex complaints they receive, giving the impression of over-vigorous investigating. “Because so many sex offence complaints are shown to be false, we are obliged to look extremely carefully at every complaint we receive. In that process, extra trauma can be created for genuine victims.” Mr Whitehead said.
The nature and complexity of sex allegations meant police put huge resources into those investigations. “Irrespective of other commitments, we will always push resources into these types of offences. As a consequence, other things will be put to one side.”
One investigation into a sexual violation last year took nine police 42 hours to prove it was untrue. The investigation cost the taxpayer $7,417. The costs included salaries, doctors fees and forensic testing.
“It’s not a case of disbelieving the complainant. We have to prove it is false.”
Police rarely prosecute people who have made false complains about sex crimes. Mr Whitehead says police will focus on the reason for the false complaints. “Invariably, we will find there are other issues behind most false complaints. We try to have those issues addressed.”
Reasons given to police in the past for making false sex complaints range from young girls who need to explain a pregnancy, failed relationships where a complainant is seeking sympathy or out of spite.
Detective Sergeant Ross Ardern of North Hamilton police says his staff come across a lot of social and psychological problems in their investigations.
One young girl who last year concocted an elaborate story about being sexually attacked was suffering stress. “Many young girls get caught in the trap of wanting attention.”
Rape Crisis national spokesperson, Claire Benson, said while she disputed police statistics, there were many reasons for false sexual allegations.
Rape Crisis was looking forward to a new adult sexual assault policy, that will next year require a support person to accompany victims during police interviews.
The maximum penalty for a false complaint is three months’ jail or a $1,000 fine.
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
I am working with two lovely grand mothers and four mothers . Do you want their phone numbers , as they all read my internet activity as that’s how they contacted me ? The judicial system and CYFS are beyond belief .
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
Linda,
I was quoting Tony Grieg ex CIB, and other senior police detectives when I mentioned those statistics.
We do have a much larger proportion of false claims than 2% and some criminologists have conceded this. If you had been reading previous posts you would see that most posters believe we need accurate statistics not just the police and agencies like Rape Crisis under or over exaggerating the truth.
Baxter is right sort of.
But the accuser in our case went through more than one police station, and when she made her final claims against me at Christchurch Central Station they had no idea of her background until at enourmas cost to myself the lawyer supplied them with a written copy to keep on file.
Under the serial accusers category I am once again only quoting statistics I have read. Noone knows for sure do they if accurate stats are not kept? Although 3 men in New Zealand recently have been falsely accused by serial accusers publicly apart from our case which never saw media coverage.
The publicity of big cases like the Louise Nicholas one, and family court custody battles have unfortunately seen a spike in these allegations according to an investigator I spoke to recently.
Lisa,
I have a past background as a nurse and here in Christchurch our stats for ECT are some of the highest in the country. Recently there has been some negative publicity down here about the damage it has done to peoples lives.
I have enourmas sympathy for rape victims and genuinely remorseful false accusers. I have 3 daughters who I would hate to see become victims of such atrocities, equally I am concerned that my son could become the victim of a false accuser.
Vote:Tonight on 3 is a story on 60 minutes that will make you sick. A young girl was raped by her mothers convicted murderer partner and her mother did not believe her and threw her out, and worse still DNA was not advanced two years ago and came back inconclusive so the jury acquitted the prat. Eventually they had the YSTR testing something Linda will remember I talked about in a previous post that exonerated my partner from the alleged crime, and this YSTR proved beyond a shadow of a doubt the bastard raped her and got away with it. On the programme tonight the mother finally meets the daughter who just wants to be believed.
What sort of mother or father would choose their partner over their child, turn their back on their child or fail to support them through the justice system.?
June 11th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
Dominion Post
January 13, 2004
False rape complaints cost millions
by Haydon Dewes
A rise in false rape complaints is soaking up police resources and costing taxpayers millions of dollars each year.
Palmerston North police arrested a 17-year-old woman yesterday for allegedly making a false statement about a rape on Sunday.
They spent a day and a half investigating the complaint.
The teenager is due to appear in Palmerston North District Court on Friday and could face a maximum penalty of three months’ imprisonment or a $2000 fine.
Figures issued by the Office of the Commissioner show police charged 471 people with making a false statement in the year to June 30, 2003.
A further six were charged with the more serious offence of fabricating evidence.
Since June, 1998, police have noticed an overall rise in false statements made, with an average of 444 per year.
There are no records to show what they refer to, but officers who spoke to The Dominion Post said the majority of false complaints related to sex offences.
The officer in charge of the Palmerston North case, Detective Sergeant Dave Clifford, confirmed yesterday that police in the city were dealing with at least one false rape or sexual assault complaint every week.
“It’s out of control and it’s frustrating as hell.”
He could not say how much each false complaint cost taxpayers, but said the cost of “man hours” alone for five investigators, a photographer and crime scene officers and the costs of processing evidence would be “extraordinary”.
An officer costs at least $75 an hour while on duty. An experienced Wellington detective said many false rape complaints would have staff tied up for two to three days, sometimes longer.
Based on the number of staff working on the Palmerston North case, the annual cost throughout New Zealand could be in the millions.
The Palmerston North accused initially told police she was pushed into a central city alleyway and raped by an unknown assailant, Mr Clifford said.
He became suspicious after the woman mentioned several things that did not usually happen during a rape.
Police would continue to treat every complaint as genuine, but most had become more cynical in their approach, he said.
“For the real victim, it does a large disservice to them. It also drags us away from other important cases. Our file trays are full of things to do.”
The reasons for making false complaints were varied, he said.
Being rejected, trying to rescue a broken relationship, being drunk, or doing a shameful act could all spur a person to make a complaint.
Police in Wellington city dealt with a spate of about 12 false sexual assault complaints in the space of a month late last year.
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
Helen Clark – do you want me to send you affidavits fast post from these traumatised women ? Please advise asap thank you .The victimised children’s affidavits are sad reading , please Minister of Justice Mark Burton – do you want them -please advise asap -thank you !! Table them MADam speaker -YEAH RIGHT !!!!
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Apologies got this wrong the DNA taken on the story tonight 60 mins was a lot longer than 2 years ago as was the crime. I thought YSTR testing has been around for at least a good couple of years.
Blurb below about tonight.
11 June, 2007
BELIEVE ME
Imagine the trauma of being raped by a convicted murderer and then no one believes you, not even your own mother.
When Vanessa Bennetts’ mother took in Peter Howse – a convicted murderer – as her boyfriend, he was all sweetness to 14-year-old Vanessa.
However, over the next few years, his demeanour changed, and the real Howse emerged. Shortly after Vanessa’s 16th birthday, she says he drugged, assaulted and raped her.
Vanessa’s mother refused to believe her, throwing her out of her home in favour of Howse.
To add insult to injury, the DNA testing system used at the time came back saying that Howse was not her attacker and the jury acquitted him.
Vanessa was left to believe she was going crazy.
The real facts would take years to emerge and only now is Vanessa able to talk about it.
She isn’t asking for compensation – all she wants is for the world to know she is not a liar.
And to confront the person she most wanted to believe her.
Reporter Alison Horwood talks to Vanessa and brings her face to face with her own mother
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Dont think I can watch that to be honest Paula.Sounds like very vouyeristic TV to me and I don’t think TV is the right place for an estranged mother and daughter to be rekindling their relationship in such tragic of circumstances. There is no explaining some peoples behaviour huh??? I am very surprised about the ECT being used so extensively in ChCH…alarming really and not well known in health professional circles I would suspect.
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Must go as I have to now phone a traumatised grand mother – six year vet of injustice – who is on the verge of suicide – as Family Court and CYFS are rapidly killing her . R I P Mum .
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Talk about smelling the fucking roses you socialist scum !!
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Lisa
Once again this was only a media report after a family went into battle when their father became so bad after his 12 treatments he forgot all his long term memories, and became apathetic towards his family, but if I recall rightly the South Island was a long way ahead of the North and we have the highest rate of Prozac prescribed per head of population down here as well, very sad and a poor reflection mental health treatment down here. Would love to get my hands on the stats. This must be something the mental health foundation at least keep unless others have that information.
Estrangements from family are hard believe me, and maybe the daughter has tried everything and this is the only way she knows. It does not matter how old you get you still want your parents support and love and it hurts to know they believe things about you that are not correct.
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
D4J
Vote:Oh dear. I’l just leave you to your personal crusade of self detruction then. Me, I love roses and despite enduring some major travesties myself still find myself having a wonderful life blessed with fabulous relationships, fulfilling career in a profession committed to helping others, robust mental health and that’s not good luck…. Socialist…perhaps. Scum, never!
June 11th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
D4J
Vote:Poor granny only got 4 minutes of your time. I hope you are a very skilled counseller or poor grandmama is in trouble….
June 11th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Judge Chris Somerville – addendum to minunte thanked me for my assistance in this case – Lisa do you want a copy ? – here is what he said 16 March 2007
” Finally, I regret that I omitted to mention how helpful to have Mr Burns accompany Ms T for what was obviously a very difficult conference for her . I appreciate the assistance he provided her .”
Dear nanny state socialist supporters take it to the limit just one more time !!!
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
Lots more judges minutes dear Helen Clark as they’re not happy with you either -lol – oh what such fun – yahoo serious – bring it on !
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Dear lisa – How about an affidavit from give it a boot Robbie D or Richard chick magnet Mc Caw?
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Winston Peters will not like me passing that All Black pill -eh Lisa – boot and ruck and stop false allegations ?
Vote:June 11th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Had enough yet MAD speaker as I must go and split me shalots in the garden as this is so easy . Good bye – do you know always keep the aces . Bye -bye Helen.
Vote: