These one-off payments are collectively bargained by members through their union – it is not simply “offered” to union members, but is negotiated as part of a package.

This happens in the private sector sometimes too. You might claim 5% but end up settling on 4.5% + a $500 cash payment.

Again, this kind of beat up just goes to show that many on the right fail to understand how unions work.

As to your first questions several govt departments offer bonus payments to union members at payround time. I can’t recall which ones but there have been several in the media this year.

As to anonymous donations they serve the very important purpose of protecting donors from puntivie measures adopted by other parties. Given Cullen’s threats to APN and Dalziels threats to the EBs I believe that this purpose is very relevant in NZ today.

Well you’d be a naive and stupid person then, not only because the comparison with an All Black supporter is such a distant connection it makes me wonder about your grasp of reality, but also because history is littered with examples of people who have suffered at the hands of their political opponents once those opponents have gained power. Look at the threats made against the principles of the Maxim Institute for a local example. If donors wish to remain anonymous- fair enough. There is no basis for forcing donors by regulation to divulge their identity.

I restate my initial position. No regulations regarding election funding. Start with one piece of legislation and you start a snowball rolling down a hill, as the current farcical situation demonstrates.

Don’t think anything good will ever come of this symposium, and nothing good will ever come from further regulating elections. Its time to start winding back regulations in this country, not calling for more of them.

I’m not in favour of any age limit, but three hearty cheers for the IQ test. Perhaps not IQ in the classical sense, but one ought to be able to answer a multi-choice test about political parties, policies and personnel before getting a vote.

In the days when I was actively promoting online voting I used to entertain myself with the idea of having a voter log on, but then have to successfully pass a test, before being taken to the voting page

But if they’re 12 and have taken the trouble to understand politics and the issues, then let ‘em vote. Likewise if they’re 52 and don’t have a clue, let them stick to reality television and sports.

On the substantive issue of political donations, I’ve never understood the fuss (well I do, but I’m pretending to be deliberately naive here). If you support a political party ought you not to be proud to do so? Thus even if you’ve donated a single dollar, why would you want anonymity? Ever heard of an anonymous All Black supporter? Publish (all donors) and be damned, I say.

As for pubic funding, I’ve been thinking through some concept like “seed funding” whereby a new party with a reasonable membership (perhaps the present 500 needed to be registered) gets some help to publicise it’s policies for one or maybe two elections. If no one likes what they’re offering, the free market of political ideas has spoken and it’s goodbye or stand on your own feet.

If you’re as relatively large and as long-standing as most of those in the Parliament at prsent, you either raise enough support to keep going or you – deservedly – wither and die, I would have thought.

The concept needs a bit of refinement but I think it has some merit, no?

Maybe Sam, you could point out where I “say” that, or if you can’t, just admit that my oft made claim that leftists commonly have the comprehension skills of a toadstool is pretty much spot on.

To say that I hate the rich because I oppose anonymous donations from rich donors!

To say that I am a leftist control freak burning with hate and obsession to control…using words like lepers and commies. I do not think you read the later post…the first one was more moderate. He is a redbaiter after all and I do like a good debate. Still think he is a bit deranged though.

dad4justice – Thanks for your usual inciteful comment.

Party funding in New Zealand is a mess and needs to be sorted before the election and it might be useful if people posted on how this could be improved rather than puerile rants.

Personally I think that all donations over $100 should be listed and no anonymising funnelling trusts should be allowed. State funding might work but caps are unrealistic and unnecessary. The Tories in the UK have had more money and not always won. As long as people know where the money is coming from and can try and discern what the agenda is that is linked to the donation the system becomes a lot more transparent.

Third party funding should be allowed. The Trade Unions declared who they were the Exclusive Bretheren did not so the rules need to be tightened.

Is you support of transparent corporate crooks Fay Richwhite, you refusal to condemn their heinous crimes, anything to do with john key’s relationship with the duo?

You are yet to reply to lefty Fran O either?

Sam are you asking as me as holder of NZ Meatworkers Union ticket for 19 years how much money went on officials donating to the labour party or trips to Russia?

This is why United have problems and I wouldn’t be surprised NZ First I see they are advertising to join up now, maybe they are in trouble

Re Alliance I doubt it has 500 …as the main contributing parties to Alliance ie Jim’s New Labour … now progressive ..Greens and the Democrats have all left to go their own way ..I know the Greens and Democrats have the numbers maybe Jim’s also has the numbers but the others and those that stayed ????

I hope no one is going to suggest that all left wingers are illiterate, uneducated lumpen proletariat!

this has actually been a pretty substantive thread up to now, can you please try to add something substantive yourself?

Redbaiter -

If money does not matter why do parties put so much effort into raising it. If money doesn’t matter, how can you say Labour’s overspending in 2005 ‘stole the election’.

The fact is although there is not an absolute correlation between spending and votes money does have an impact – its just impossible to show statistically when there are other major varibles such as polcies and campaign events, advertising spending is one of several major tools parties use to win votes at an election.

What part of that is so deranged Red Rasputin?

Or how was this not factual

‘As you were last election, stealing from the public because you couldn’t raise the required money from supporters.”

Redbaiter has actually been raising some very valid points in this thread.

I can assure you I have no pathological hatred of the rich…indeed a know quite a few that I would happily have a nice glass/bottle of Bollinger with. It seems like it is you who have a viceral hatred of the left.

I have no problem with rich kiwis donating to any party. It is their money and they should be able to do with it as they want it is just the fact that they wanted to hide it that perturbs me. As does Labour’s deceitful use of parliamentary services money to fund the pledge card though. As for your comment about Bush I have no idea what you are talking about…kinda going off message here and then hey presto the old attack that we are all commies…another clinching argument from Redbaiter

Do not let facts get in the way of your seething rant. You say that we do not run on policy or intent and hide our real objectives. Well throughout the last election National said one thing to the voters to win their support but another to the business meetings and rich donors to keep the monye comming in. They knew that their real intent in government and policies would be unpalatable to voters and that is why they hid them.

You are right on one thing though I am an anarcho-syndacalist revolutionary and wish to turn New Zealand into a totalitarian Maoist state with a command and control economy where freedoms have to be curtailed for the national good. Of course some deviants and undesirables will have to be liquidated and redbaiter you will be the first up against the wall.

That was a joke in case anyone wants to try and get me into more trouble!

that’s actually an interesting question becuase the woman at the symposiumfrom the electoral commission specifically said ‘the parties do not tell us their membership numbers’ when discussing broader issues of party membership.

And that 500 threshold should be meaningful, so you don’t get the electoral process clogged up with the kind of parties that win in the 1000s of votes.

The 10 parties with the smallest votes in 2005 had fewer votes combined than the Destiny Party alone (14,500 or 0.6% of the total vote). Of them, I reckon only, maybe, the Alliance has anywhere near 500 members.

Bullshit. But of course you hate the rich don’t you Ras?

The ACT representative was right. The amount of money spent on advertising does not necessarily effect the outcome of the election. Plenty of big spenders have come second. Steve Forbes (USA) for one example. In a civilized country, people should be able to spend whatever they want on whatever they want, be it elections or shoes. Under the socialists, soon we’ll need to ask permission to wipe our arses.

Its leftist control freaks like you Rasputin, burning with hate and the obsession to control that are the real blight on the democratic process. As you were last election, stealing from the public because you couldn’t raise the required money from supporters. Putting out posters financed again with stolen taxpayer money. (Then you have the gall to come across with the absurd charge that George Bush “stole” the election. Jezuz H Christ you commies are something.)

But then the left never really attract the support they say they do and that’s why they never run an election on policy or intent, because you know Rasputin that people would shun you like lepers if they knew your real objectives. Its why you need issues like the EB. To smokescreen your planned totalitarian outcomes.

Is Alliance… Republicans …Cannibas party ..and numerous ones I have never heard really a registered party!

Do they have the required membership ? Who checks up on the commission to see if they are upholding the law re registered parties ?