Pathethic

June 26th, 2007 at 5:56 am by David Farrar

Alan Hogg has just scored his 34th conviction for driving while disqualified. The man should be in prison. On top of 34 disqualified driving convictions he has 13 for drunk driving plus some for dangerous driving and drugs influenced driving.

With all respect to Judge Davidson, but what fucking planet are you on when you talk about giving him “the chance to get out of the cycle of offending”. He has been offending non stop for 18 year. His latest offences were done while on bail. Do you think he hasn’t had such chances before?

Why does the Government spend tens of millions on road safety campaigns, when the very worst offenders get slapped by a wet bus ticket only?

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36 Responses to “Pathethic”

  1. brian_smaller () says:

    “Why does the Government spend tens of millions on road safety campaigns, when the very worst offenders get slapped by a wet bus ticket only?”

    Because it is not his fault. He has a problem therefore we all should, as a society, help him to break free from his cycle of offending. I mean, what possible good can come from locking him up for a few years?

    [/sarcasm]

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  2. Sofia () says:

    “With all respect to Judge Davidson . . .”

    Absolutely not respect to this idiot!
    Along with the fool who sentenced the killers of Ngati Kaura [so severely beaten with a base ball bat that this three year old Samoan kid's blood spattered the fucking ceiling], Judge Davidson is further evidence that Government must have instructed judges to keep people out of prisons because of the crisis that exists there in expense, accommodation, staffing and failure of rehabilitation courses. What other explanation is there for these moronic decisions?

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  3. Sofia () says:

    “Because it is not his fault. He has a problem therefore we all should, as a society, help him to break free from his cycle of offending.”

    This applies also to the just mentioned killers of Ngati Kaura?

    “I mean, what possible good can come from locking him up for a few years?”

    It takes him off the bloody roads – that’s the first thing it does.

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  4. C Milne () says:

    The judiciary seem to suffer from Stockholm Syndrome. By spending so much time in the company of criminals they start to see things from criminals’ eyes and overly empathise with them. They lose their sense of outrage. Electing lower court judges, as in the US, connects judges with the pubilc mood. Here they have a job for life, and as they go along they become less and less effective at reflecting public expectations of the justice system.

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  5. Andrew W () says:

    I can see where the judge is coming from, as I’ve said before; with criminals you can either reform them, or you can shoot them, chucking them in prison is no solution as eventually they get out. The present system does fuck all to reform them and most NZers (including I bet those who’ve commented here) are too gutless to shoot them.
    Given the curcumstances, what the judge has done in using the limited powers he has in encouraging reform, given that this guy has at least taken some steps to sort himself out, is logical.

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  6. Sofia () says:

    Andrew W ” . . . what the judge has done . . . is logical”

    This guy Hogg has 34 convictions for the same thing.
    Isn’t he developing a bit of a pattern here?
    So he has community service – no compulsory psychiatric attention? – just community service, whatever the hell that is.

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  7. Andrew W () says:

    Of course it’s a pattern, how to you suggest we change the pattern? Prison? Most prisoners reoffend. My idea of shooting him next time would be 100% effective.

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  8. Greenjacket () says:

    Sorry Andrew W, but you really don’t have a clue.

    For repeat offenders, prison is the only answer. First, it takes a very dangerous person off the streets – a basic purpose of prison is to protect society. Second, Alan Hogg is a recidivist offender, apparently with some very deep problems. Prison is the only chance he can receive the extensive therapy he so obviously needs.

    A prison sentence combined with extensive therapy is, I’m afraid, the only way of treating people like Alan Hogg – people with deep rooted problems such as his cannot be reformed by letting them out on the streets – Alan Hogg is in desperate need of real treatment. Letting this person out onto the streets again, as Judge Davidson has done, is incomprehensible. Hopefully Alan Hogg doesn’t kill someone before he ends up in prison for his 35th conviction.

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  9. Andrew W () says:

    Green jacket, the prison system we have doesn’t work, it’s nothing but a boarding school where criminals go to learn how to be better criminals, most people who go to prison re-offened didn’t you know this??

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  10. ChickenLittle () says:

    And the money quote, boys and girls –

    “and had started paying off his fines, which Judge Davidson said was a significant step toward reforming.”

    I call bullshit on that.

    This guy will be laughing his arse off at the Judge and justice system. If he can read he’s laughing at you too Andrew.

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  11. CraigM () says:

    Andrew, totally disagree with you on this one.

    This guy needs help, yes. Until he gets it, he should be kept away from society. He is a death waiting to happen. I wonder what you would say if it was a member of your family who was killed tomorrow by this guy?

    Second point is, do the crime, do the time. He is a repeat offender, knowingly breaking the law and laughing at the system that keeps on ignoring it. He deserves to be punished for his crimes.

    He clearly doen’t need prison to teach him to re-offend Andrew. He has it down pat.

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  12. mike () says:

    Also in the artical The offences took place 18 months ago and since then Hogg had gained a learner’s licence.

    He is eligible to seek his restricted licence in another two months.

    Judge Davidson said it was a classic case of giving Hogg the chance to get out of the cycle of offending.

    He had every reason to believe that once Hogg had a full licence he could live, work and prosper without offending.

    “In the long term, surely the courts must be in the business of avoiding offending,” he said.

    In the past 18 months Hogg had completed a driver improvement course – scoring 92 per cent – and had started paying off his fines, which Judge Davidson said was a significant step toward reforming.

    Hogg was also working and was well regarded by his employer.

    Judge Davidson ordered Hogg to do 200 hours of community work.

    He did not impose any disqualification but confiscated the Toyota car he was caught in at least twice.

    He told Hogg he hoped he recognised the sentence was designed to help him avoid getting into more trouble.

    obviously he is in the process of cleaning up his act, hasnt been caught in the last 18 months, and is in the process of getting a drivers licence, sure looks like hes learnt his lesson to me.

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  13. Sofia () says:

    The prison system does not work because it is so soft. It’s corrective factor can only work if it is a place that no one wants to go to. Same with the system of fines – currently if you rack up a big enough amount it is wiped. It actually encourages people to offend further to get relief – not smart psychology! Prison should involve chain gangs doing road work 8am to 5pm wearing pink overalls with I AM A FUCKING IDIOT printed on the back.

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  14. Horace () says:

    Judge Davidson should be sacked. No government serious about reducing crime could have him as a judge.

    The term “judge” in front of his name is an oxymoron and the name after “judge” describes a moron.

    There is no way this is anything other than a relationship based decision between either the family of the offender, a club of common interest, or a friendship and the Judge himself

    or

    a political intervention from the government on the judge, or a judge that is trying to ascend a political ladder into leftwing politics. Keep a lookout for Mr. Davidson being promoted to a higher government position soon.

    The “judges” words are so completely PC and straight from the Labour Party mindset that it’s laughable.

    Perhaps the LTSA could tell us all how the licencing program isn’t all that important, and that you can drive around for 18 years without a licence, and still sit a learners licence, and break all the conditions, and have your car impounded and still be allowed to move forward to your restricted licence?

    Perhaps the Police would love to tell us all how they can do nothing to stop this man, that the drink drivng message is really just a joke, that the ACC stop buses are just a moveable theatre, that they are completely impotent against the wiles of a drunken panelbeater from Wellington?

    This “judge” has circumvented the purposes of many government depts and treated the law with contempt.

    Sack him. Sack him now.

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  15. Andrew W () says:

    Agree with that Sofia, it’s a softer and less certain option than shooting them but for many it might work.

    What we need to get away from is the wishy washy compromise of the present system, which is to punish, but not too much, rather than eliminate the problem by reforming or eliminating the criminals.

    Upping the length of prison sentences without looking at the effectiveness of those sentences is a bit like steadily upping the degree of corporal punishment for children, if it works with a smack, great! But if at first it doesn’t work, when do you stop? After the cane? after the baseball bat? When the child is dead? If thats the case should have just killed it at the first offence.

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  16. Razork () says:

    With all respect to Judge Davidson, but what fucking planet are you on when you talk about giving him “the chance to get out of the cycle of offending.

    Exactly, then the bastard kills some poor citizen while driving pissed again and the blame game and social hand wringing begins.

    Lock the prick up or send him to white island or somewhere.

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  17. CraigM () says:

    Andrew,

    How about individual responsibility. Punishment first, followed by rehabilitation. It’s then up to the individual to change. If not, the punishment increases. I really don’t think shooting them is an option. This isn’t China.

    This guy has been taught a lesson alright, a lesson that there are no consequences to your actions.

    I always wonder why someone caught breaking the fisheries laws gets hammered. Lost car, boat, equipment etc, right from the first offence. Yet guys like this have multiple drink driving offences, driving while disqualified etc and get treated so leaniently.

    It’s all out of whack.

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  18. Andrew W () says:

    You guys are way too emotional, when dealing with wayward children, employees, tenants or criminals, think through a strategy that achieves the desired result and then apply it, if your desired result is simply to hurt the offender with no regard to the long term consequences your the idiot.

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  19. David Farrar () says:

    What horrifies me is that if he has 50 driving convictions, his actual level of offending could be 100 times that. Because one only gets checked at most 1 in 100 times you are out.

    Anyone who has more than five drink driving convictions, probably drives drunk every couple of days.

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  20. Andrew W () says:

    With driving while disqualified it’s a little different, the police know you’re disqualified and stop you everytime they see you (which does make him an idiot). As I read it he hasn’t been done for DIC in 18 months despite this higher police attention

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  21. Horace () says:

    You guys are way too emotional,

    Nice try, but that isn’t the case. Most who are against this judges decision would settle for the law being upheld.

    You are eager to bring up points that just don’t matter: his overall trend of offending possibly declining while his offending continues. I’m sorry to say, that you may be the type of person you accuse other people of being of if you disregard examination of your own argument in favour of left wing ideology.

    So,

    Rapists may be allowed back on the street, if they show to be raping less overall. Is that it?

    No, uphold the law.

    Child abusers may be spared a prison sentence if they abuse less children overall, while they continue to offend?

    No, uphold the law.

    People who evade tax, should be exempt from paying any fines when caught, if it can be shown that they paid tax once, earlier in their ongoing offending?

    No, uphold the law.

    Thieves, violent criminals …they should all be allowed to disregard the law, free to carry on doing whatever they please if they can state that they once did something right during their ongoing and continuing offending?

    No, uphold the law.

    Emotion doen’t come into it. Just uphold the law.
    A simple concept that scares the hell out of the left.

    Any example of the offender struggling to turn their life around and failing could influence a sentence, could influence a judge to take special interest in their rehabilitation, but the original conviction must stand.

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  22. Andrew W () says:

    “Most who are against this judges decision would settle for the law being upheld.”

    Are you saying the judge broke the law?

    You still miss my point Horace, I think the judge recognises the huge faults with the system we have, and is trying to avoid this guy ending up as a full time crim. Driving while disqualified is a serious offence because it is an offence against the court, it is not an offence that, in itself, makes someone an unsafe driver, if he was driving only to and from work, ie to remain employed, when stopped while disqualified (pound to a penny thats the case) the judge has been big enough to over look what amounts to an insult against himself by this driving, recognising the importance of this guy keeping his job.

    As for your comments along the lines that a little crime is ok, thats what the present system encourages.

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  23. ZenTiger () says:

    There are a few too many unknowns to accurately judge this story. If we understood the circumstances behind each time he was caught – random stops, or dangerous driving, then that would change my opinion slightly.

    But with 34 convictions (and that’s just on not having a license), what makes this the time to believe he is “on the mend”? That he hasn’t been caught in 18 months? That might be the case, but I wonder why we let this guy get to even 12 offences? My suspicion is that he gets caught because he stands out as a dangerous driver.

    I’ll assume the judge has all the facts, but I’d also expect the judge to resign if this guy kills some-one. I think letting this guy get to the number of convictions before noting an improvement and therefore a reason to be merciful is the bit that has gone off the rails. Surely at time number 5, 10, 15 or 20 he would have been saying “this is your last chance – I cannot risk the safety of the public”

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  24. CraigM () says:

    Sorry Andrew,
    Your posts on this issue are the weakest arguement I have ever seen you put up.

    Yes, I know. I am just emotional and an idiot.

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  25. Inventory2 () says:

    Andrew W said “With driving while disqualified it’s a little different, the police know you’re disqualified and stop you everytime they see you (which does make him an idiot). As I read it he hasn’t been done for DIC in 18 months despite this higher police attention”

    Maybe Andrew, it was simply a matter of the police catching him on the way to the pub rather than the way home!

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  26. haggis () says:

    God, Andrew W, you are a weak leftist pussy.

    This guy is a crim, should be locked up and the key thrown away.

    Problem is, we dont have enough prison beds. We should build bunks in all the prisons and start getting serious when people break the law.

    I bet you would see it differently if this guy hit you and you were maimed for life.

    Get real, man, and stop making excuses for these pathetic lowlifes

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  27. candida () says:

    Andrew W – “I think the judge recognises the huge faults with the system we have, and is trying to avoid this guy ending up as a full time crim.”
    This guy is making no attempt to avoid being a full time crim. As a matter of fact, he is doing a pretty good job of being exactly that. If he served a 6 month disqualification for the 34 prior convictions, he has been a crim for 17 years already. THIS IS FULL TIME. Lock him up, throw away the key. I will get my grand-children to look in on him one day.

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  28. Andrew W () says:

    Haggis, we need a justice system that would have dealt with this guy properly years ago, reform him or shoot him, and believe me, with those options he would have reformed. The system we have is a compromise between those who believe in reforming prisoners and those who believe in punishing them, and like most compromises, it’s crap.

    In his case, he’s a product of the deficiencies of that system, and unfortunately the judge is limited to that system in terms of what he can do to, there are no options open to him that would permanently remove him as a threat to society, given that limitation, the judge has placed a bet that with recent history the guy has demonstrated a willingness to change.

    You call me a weak pussy, in my view the weak pussies are those who advocate the present compromise rather than accepting that permanent removal through capital punishment for irredeemable offenders and proper efforts to reform redeemable offenders is the sensible course , people like you.

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  29. Andrew W () says:

    “Lock him up, throw away the key. I will get my grand-children to look in on him one day.”

    Great idea, but that option wasn’t avialable to the judge, also much cheaper to shoot him – or are you too much of a wimp for that?

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  30. haggis () says:

    Fair comment, Andrew W.

    I withdraw my view that you are a leftist pussy

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  31. Rumpole () says:

    Andrew

    NZ isn’t China and shooting may be extreme but I bet given the chance there would be a huge queue of volunteers to do the shooting.

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  32. Andrew W () says:

    Thanks Haggis

    Rumpole, There might be plenty of people willing to pull the trigger, but in a democracy, figuratively speaking, half the population needs to be willing to pull the trigger.

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  33. baxter () says:

    CHICKEN LITTLE…You quote “This guy will be laughing his arse off at the Judge and justice system. If he can read he’s laughing at you too Andrew.”
    On the other hand if he can’t read he may be able to join the Police. They don’t worry too much if recruits have previous convictions either these days.

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  34. Flashman () says:

    Most members of the NZ judiciary are middle aged baby boomers whose formative years were the hippy 60’s and whose professional values consolidated in the soft lovin’ social conscience 70’s.

    It’s thus not surprising that they say and do these sorts of things today on a collective basis.

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  35. .com () says:

    no selma,

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  36. thehawk () says:

    I would be happy to shoot him.

    Get me the gun. Get me the moron.

    One bullet. One ex-problem.

    I am talking about the Judge.

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