Bush commutes Libby sentence

July 3rd, 2007 at 10:20 am by David Farrar

President Bush has commuted the sentence of Scooter Libby on exempting him from a 2 1/2-year prison term. He has left in place a $250,000 fine and two years probation.

Regardless of the merits, or otherwise, of an individual case, I don’t think it is a good look to grant clemency to your former aides, and especially to do before they have served even part of their sentence.

Mind you at 29% in the polls, one can’t drop much further I suppose.

Tags:

94 Responses to “Bush commutes Libby sentence”

  1. fred arnn () says:

    Bush thanks Scooter for a job well done!

    Justice has been served!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. Redbaiter () says:

    Libby’s prosecution was a partisan disgrace.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. Ben Wilson () says:

    There’s still another 29% to fall which Bush is hard at work on.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. dave () says:

    Regardless of the merits, or otherwise, of an individual case, I don’t think it is a good look to grant clemency to your former aides

    The first act of Gerald Ford as president was to pardon Richard Nixon. In advance even of charges, IIRC.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. dave () says:

    Regardless of the merits, or otherwise, of an individual case, I don’t think it is a good look to grant clemency to your former aides

    The first act of Gerald Ford as president was to pardon Richard Nixon. In advance even of charges, IIRC.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. Muad,Dib" () says:

    How dose this idiot sleep ,knowing that hes hated??

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. Ben Wilson () says:

    Perhaps the Spice buried beneath the sands consoles him, O mouse that jumps.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. kiwi in america () says:

    David
    Libby’s prosecution was the most partisan of fishing expeditions. Fitzgerald wanted to nail somebody in the Bush Administration. He knew that Asst Sec of State Richard Armitage was the person who leaked Valerie Plame’s status as a CIA agent NOT Libby (or Rove as many liberal bloggers believed). Armitage was never charged with breaching the law in relation to disclosing Plame’s identity because her status was hardly a state secret – Plame herself revealed her position in a CNN interview plus the statutory 5 year limit since she had been a covert agent had expired.

    So Libby had broken no law and the Special Prosecutor know that and even knew who had disclosed the very information he was empowered to seek. It took 4 grand juries before Fitzgerald could finally find one who would even indict Libby. And then he set a trap for Libby and Libby gets prosecuted for perjury.

    fred arnn – Clinton pardoned (a more generous act than a mere commuting of a sentance) friends and donors like Marc Rich convicted of major tax evasion, fraud and other felonies more serious than anything even alleged that Libby did. Did I hear your disapproval over that?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. sonic () says:

    All Libby did was lie to a grand jury, whats that between friends?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. rickyjj () says:

    To put that 29% in perspective, in a Gallup poll in the beginning of June 28% of Americans said the idea of evolution was “definitely false”….

    So I don’t think Bush’s support could get much lower if he decided to start wearing a bunny costume and went around shooting people.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. scrubone () says:

    Yea, it’s in danger of getting down into congress levels!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. sonic () says:

    Cheney did try shooting an old man in the face, didn’t help the poll numbers though.

    I do love the new right paradigm that perjury is no big deal, not as inportant as getting a hummer in the Oval office at least!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. ZenTiger () says:

    That’s one down, now two to go

    Right after pardoning them, he needs to give them medals and a few million in compensation.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. kiwi in america () says:

    Sonic
    Dont let the facts get in the way of your Bush hating meme. Fitzgerald hounded him – he should never have even faced a grand jury because he broke no law but Fitzgerald kept going until he finally found a grand jury who would to indict him – does that sound like a clear open and shut case? He is appealing his conviction so lets see how the justice system pans out before you hang your hat on Fitzgerald’s jury. Bush’s commutation allows him time to prepare for that trial without having to be in jail.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. kiwi in america () says:

    Sonic
    Just for the record – what were your views on Clinton lies before a Grand Jury (“I did not have sexual relations with that woman”) or the obstrution of justice charges? Of course to the left what’s a bit of lying about sexual encounters in the Oval Office between friends.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. sonic () says:

    He lied to a grand Jusr Kiwi in America, sad to see your blind partisanship extends to excusing perjury.

    I note you are not so happy to excuse Mr Clinton.

    I wonder if this will take Bush down to 20%?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. Selma Bouvier () says:

    KIA is talking garbage.
    Plame herself revealed her position in a CNN interview
    Must be easy to prove since CNN transcripts are online .
    But not so easy if you just make it up. Anyway it was Vanity fair where she was photographed with dark glasses AND headscarf so her ‘identity’ wouldnt be revealed but that was after her ‘name’ had been published by Novak

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. scrubone () says:

    Her “codename” was published in “Who’s Who”. And that *is* online – it’s even reference from wikipedia, where I got this link.

    http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/wilson.whoswho.pdf

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. reid () says:

    People who continue to insist critics of Bush and his administration are operating from mere bias are beginning to look ridiculous as the evidence rolls out and slowly despite media incompetence and coverup, becomes undeniable.

    BDS?

    Remember what Bias said: All men are bad – (Bias of Priene was one of the seven sages of classical antiquity)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. Dead Duck Dux () says:

    Scooter Libby should have been put away for a long time for the outrage of exposing a formerly active field agent during a time of war. Just consider all of the sources Plame has had contact with over the years and how well they’ll will be doing now. I notice there’s not been a big beef about it – but once an active field agent is exposed there are often lots of deaths. As the “other side” uses this kind of information to reveal informants and double agents in their midsts. There are serious repurcussions for this kind of exposure and Libby should have paid dearly for it. The fact he wasn’t charged under more serious charges relating to breaching secrets and exposing an intelligence operative saved his ass from a much worse fate than 2 1/2 year sentence. But Dick and his pet monkey could not afford to let one of their team go down as a patsy. This decision of Bush’s is outrageous. And to put this into perspective, Cheney and Bush come from a party that pushed hard to have a President impeached because he got a blow job in the Whitehouse and, rather understandably for a filandering asshole, lied about it to protect himself and his marriage. But, Bush will get away with it. Lordy, I do not understand the American electorate. That this guy has ANY electoral support is just fascinating. What the fuck does it take to damage your reputation in American politics? Well, aside from get a hummer from a fat girl – that’s clearly a high crime and misdemeanor.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. reid () says:

    The fact she was the only CIA asset in Aramco with excellent contacts throughout the mid-east at a time when the US was just beginning to fight the “war on terror,” obviously meant nothing to Dick.

    Look it up if you doubt it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. Michael (The Right Wing One) () says:

    Second Term Persidents can’t help but do this in the second half of their term as they don’t face any more elections – Clinton pardoned his brother, a large donor, and others in his last week in power.

    As an aside, I don’t see any clamouring here about how the much championed NZ Republic will mean we will eventually get a President who will use the powers of their office inappropriately. (You know I’m right) If the Queen was to do this, we’d be a Republic within 3 months – so she won’t do it!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. reid () says:

    Michael, prepare for a new entry to this list, and I do agree with you about Clinton’s illegitimate pardons. It just goes to show what kind of men both of them are.

    http://www.time.com/time/2007/presidential_pardons/10.html

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. Redbaiter () says:

    “Scooter Libby should have been put away for a long time ”

    Snip a load of utterly worthless bullshit. Why are leftists so often such unmitigated liars?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. Redbaiter () says:

    “I wonder if this will take Bush down to 20%?”

    It might, but only because of his betrayal of Scooter Libby, who should have been given a deserved full pardon. (This conviction will be put aside on appeal.) Libby did not “out” Valerie Plame as the raving hate monger Duck claims. It was state dept official Richard Armitage, as anyone with half a clue would know by now. Anyway, the whole case only arose as a stop gap to fill the vengance void when Joe Wilson’s false accusations about pre-war intelligence were exposed for what they were.

    This is a gutess act by Bush and his band. Libby was railroaded. He is merely an innocent man who lost track of what he said to whom he said and to when he said it. He deserves a full pardon, aned Bush should have given it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. Clint Heine () says:

    Love the double standards all you Bush haters.

    Sheesh, Clinton pardoned people and lied blatantly while in power. His definition of what sex is or isnt is part of folklore now.

    If you are going to slam Bush I suggest you be a little honest about other Presidents too.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. Dead Duck Dux () says:

    Fuck me. Red and Heine doing their thing in the name of conservatism. For crying out loud…get off message. See this for the outrage it is. There is no way anyone who has any respect of the difficult work of the intelligence and defence communities can see this as being anything other than a gross miscarriage. Libby’s sentence of imprisonment was the proverbial wet bus ticket – compared with what he deserved. But, no, Dicky can’t let one of his boys go down even for this paltry sentence. Disgusting. The fact that Redbaiter, a so called conservative who has often times defended US defence/intelligence work even tries to defend this travesty is spectacular. Is there no insult too grave…is there no action so beyond the pale that Red will say…”look, fuck conservative collectivism…” (and irony I love, by the way: that conservatives are so into collectivism) “this is repugnant shit and I am calling it”. Oh, no. Not for Red and the other wannabe Fox commentators. Not for third hand-third rate talking points. Yeah, Clinton pardoned people. So fucking what? Who gives a shit? Heine your attempt at deflecting attention from this grievious insult to the intelligence community by suggesting a spurious comparison with Clinton is just rubbish.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. I Love to Polk () says:

    In defence of Bush: Polk and McKinley excercised poor judgement and don’t even get me onto Taylor. Jefferson…now there was a card player. What about Carter? Say no more. So there you go Bush wasn’t bad because these other dudes did stuff too. Just ignore the man behind the curtain…

    Getting back to Bush’s handling of the Libby affair…quick look behind you, there’s a grizzly bear…and a pot of gold…is that icecream over there?

    My mistake…sorry, you were asking about the Libby pardon…oh, my God, there’s a cat dancing the can can just behind you. Look over there. Isn’t that amazing? Anyway, you were saying about Libby…DUCK! Sorry, I thought there was a low flying frisbee about to hit you in the head. Now, the Libby situation…its…ummm…jesus look at the fire just behind you…my mistake…sorry…

    No I am not trying to avoid the central issue…DUCK!!!!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. Redbaiter () says:

    Duck, you’re a raving lunatic. Libby did nothing to endanger anyone in any intelligence service and it is not what he has been convicted of. He did not out Plame. Richard Armitage did. Known fact you rabbiting dimwit.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. Dead Duck Dux () says:

    Yawn. Still on message, Red? Do you, like, get the talking points emailed to you or do you download them off the web? Just interested.

    Anyhoo, how the fuck would you know whether or not anyone has been endangered by this reckless action by these goons? The reason most countries (ours included) have strong rules and traditions around protecting the identities of those brave men and women active in the intelligence community is so that they and their sources are not compromised. You can defend it all you like, Red. But even for someone as one-eyed, cage-shaking rabidity as you clearly are defending this shit has got to be like cleaning up after a two year old with explosive diorreah. You and your obsessive love of the polemical – it gets you into some pretty distasteful corners.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. Hu Jintao () says:

    Bush should bomb Iran nuclear facility now. If Iran retaliates or interferes in Irag as a result , then the US should look the other way, while Israel deliver the nukes to Tehran.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. cannon fodder () says:

    It’s a good idea for clemency. Bush has the New Media to point out the blatant blood-thirsty politicking from the Democrats that was a part of this investigation from the get-go, although Bush will never go there. The MSM no longer has a monopoly.

    Plame wasn’t even covert. The prosecutor was a politically motivated scumbag. Libby was caught out on a rather contrived point, *the original target of the investigation having nothing on him*. At least one juror has publicly said Libby shouldn’t go to jail despite the verdict.

    OTOH, Bill Clinton pardoned a record number of genuine criminals during his presidency (http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/clintonpardon_grants.htm). Lo! it was silence from the MSM!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. Clint Heine () says:

    Still waiting for something intelligent from “Duck” about much more evil Bush is than Clinton.

    Obviously you aren’t a scholar of American politics ducky boy. Cannon Fodder, well put. Completely agree. The MSM’s love affair with Clinton was and still is gag inducing.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. woppo () says:

    Fuck me. Red and Heine doing their thing in the name of conservatism.

    Conservatism has nothing to do with it.
    It’s just the usual small-boy whine about making the world safe for sociopaths.
    They haven’t been able to raise a woody since Brash was on deck.
    “Please, please George, nuke Iran! And nuke horrid Hulun while you’re at it!”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. Murray () says:

    “All Libby did was lie to a grand jury, whats that between friends?”

    Yes its good enough for Slick Willie so cram it.

    Well put Chronic.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. unaha-closp () says:

    Demopublicans are all the same.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. Anon () says:

    At least when Bush commutes a sentence or pardons an offender, he has to announce it and is politically accountable for it, to the extent that he is being criticised all around the world. When Clark gets one of her mates of criminal charges, it is by secretly and illegally interferring with the operations of the police.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. kiwi in america () says:

    For the benefit of Selma
    Fitzgerald was hired to find out who leaked Valerie Pame’s alleged status as a covert CIA operative. Here is Joseph Wilson himself, talking to Wolf Blitzer on CNN Today 14 July 2005 http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/14/wbr.01.html: “My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity.” Read that again. Now reflect on the fact that there has been an ongoing investigation FOR TWO YEARS conducted, we were breathlessly and rather constantly told in the weeks surrounding the initial controversy, on the basis that the White House and reporters OUTED A CLANDESTINE AGENT. Now we know she wasn’t covert at least not then and so whoever did tell journalist Robert Novak about Plame’s CIA role could not be in breach of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.

    Novak told Fitzgerald it was Richard Armitage and so the whole reason for the hiring of the Special Prosecutor (to find out the source of the leak) was accomplished with that admission. We now know that Armitage did not deny the allegation when confronted by Fitzgerald so why did Fitzgerald carry on? To complete a witch hunt to find someone whose prosecution could hurt Bush and Libby fitted the bill.

    AS for Dead Duck Dux “Yeah, Clinton pardoned people. So fucking what? Who gives a shit?” This comment sums up the whole attitude of the left. If my guy does it, its all OK but if someone on the right does it, it a horrible crime. Earth to Bush haters – the US Constitution gives the LEGAL power to the sitting President to commute or pardon. They all do it. The US Department of Justice http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/clintonpardon_grants.htm details all the crimes of the over 400 people Clinton pardoned. There are countless parties pardoned by Clinton who committed major tax evasion, mail fraud, bank/mortgage fraud, various levels of drug dealing and possession. It is a veritable text book of crimes and the object of his pardons – major campaign donors or just plain FOBs (Friends of Bills). Marc Rich was pardoned on the last day ostensibly because of a six figure loan he made to Hillary’s brother. Please note DDD Clinton PARDONED these crooks; Bush merely commuted Libby’s sentence.

    I finish with an apt quote from liberal Bush hating Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen in his 19 June column “But the rest of us ought to consider what Fitzgerald has wrought and whether we are better off for his efforts. I have come to hate the war and I cannot approve of lying under oath — not by Scooter, not by Bill Clinton, not by anybody. But the underlying crime is absent, the sentence is excessive and the investigation should not have been conducted in the first place. This is a mess. Should Libby be pardoned? Maybe. Should his sentence be commuted? Definitely.”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. Billy () says:

    Clearly it is an outrage.

    But probaby no more of an outrage than Clinton pardoning Marc Rich and Hilliary’s brother.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. LawGeek () says:

    Erm. Political Prosecutions? Patrick Fitzgerald is a republican-appointed official. Appointed by the Republican-appointed deputy Attorney-General, James Comey. Tell me again how this is a partisan railroad?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. kiwi in america () says:

    LawGeek
    Look at the facts of what happened-that is more relevant than who appointed Fitzgerald. There have been several Republican appointees who, for a variety of reasons, become more liberal and turn against their party. Justices O’Connor, Bryers and Kennedy (Bush 1 and Reagan appointees to the Supreme Court) regularly vote/voted with the hard core liberal Clinton appointees. 12 prominent law professors have expressed the same dismay as liberal Post columnist Richard Cohen and recommended a commutation. Bush has pardon just over 80 people – less than a quarter of Clinton’s total.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. Sam Finnemore () says:

    This is hilarious.

    Every time a commenter expresses outrage at Bush’s actions, another one springs up to say Clinton did it and got away with it and therefore lefties lose. I think Bush’s action was immoral – although legal – but I’m not in the business of defending any of Clinton’s dodgy pardons either.

    You can’t slamdunk people by assuming Clinton is their man, particularly not in a New Zealand context. And of course, just because Bill Clinton did it too doesn’t make it right for him or anyone else, including Bush. I thought most people right of centre would be aware of this point, but the Internet always surprises.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. kiwi in america () says:

    What will all you Bush critics say if an appeal court overturns the lower court verdict?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. Greenjacket () says:

    Errr – Fitzgerald the prosecutor, and the judges of the case, are REPUBLICAN appointees.
    Can anyone explain how come this was partisan?

    And correct me if I’m wrong, but a JURY found Libby GUILTY of perjury.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. Greenjacket () says:

    Errr – Fitzgerald the prosecutor, and the judges of the case, are REPUBLICAN appointees.
    Can anyone explain how come this was partisan?

    And correct me if I’m wrong, but a JURY found Libby GUILTY of perjury.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. james cairney () says:

    Redbaiter says: “This conviction will be put aside on appeal”

    Then why the need for Bush to act? If you have so much confidence in the US justice system, then again, why the need to act?

    And KIA says: “What will all you Bush critics say if an appeal court overturns the lower court verdict?”

    I’d say that there was therefore no need for Bush to intervene. Justice would have run its course.

    And I’m curious, what is it that you half baked apologists believe is a prosecutor’s job to do?

    Rb and KIA, do you believe that a person should not be remanded in custody pending trial, and what about when there are pending appeals after convictions? Is custody in those cases an affront to liberty in your perverted minds? Becasue it certainly seems so.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. kiwi in america () says:

    James Cairney
    Bush commuted his sentence – he didnt pardon him. There is quite a difference. He did so in the knowledge that the appeal was pending. Many non partisan legal observers considered the panel’s decision to deny bail was harsh. The judges on the panel are known Bush haters and so their purely discretionary decision was calculated to cause him maximum embarrassment.

    Fitzgerald was called in to see if there had been a breach of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act in the outing of Plame. Not only was Libby not guilt of this, Fitzgerald knew this. In fact not even Armitage broke that law so why the fuss.

    A lower court jury found Libby guilty of perjury. He claims he is innocent. A lower court in NZ found Bain guilty of murder – he claims he is innocent and it took a higher court with better legal nous to see the problems with how the lower courts had handled the case. There is often a rush to judgement after the results of the very first trial (eg Lindy Chamberlain). Mostly juries get it right but not always.

    The Constitution grants the President to legally intervene in the legal process. If you dont like it (Democrat President or Republican) then become a US citizen and lobby for a constitutional amendment. Personally I think it is a much abused power but in this case I believe the power has been used with some restraint and there are plenty of people who have no love for Bush or the Republican party here who feel the same way.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. sonic () says:

    “there are plenty of people who have no love for Bush or the Republican party”

    Around 75% of the population according to the latest polls. It is rather amusing that the last loyal republican turns out to be an expat New Zealander.

    ;0

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. Clint Heine () says:

    Ahh Sonic, the Republicans are doing fine in the latest polls, you’re getting confused with Congress which is experiencing their usual low ratings (regardless of who is in power) and if I remember correctly the Dems are controlling Congress. Bush does have low ratings, but considering the Iraq war is biting him in the ass how could the polls be good?

    Kiwi in America got the facts right here yet again. Clinton pardoned 400 criminals. Bush merely commuted a sentance. Yes it isn’t exactly right, but if the same thing happened in NZ the scale of difference btw what Clinton did compared with Bush is a mere drop in a bucket.

    Funnily enough when Bush became President he sealed many records from the Presidency of his father and Clinton…. after all, and I think many forget this convieniently (as they hate Bush) Clinton and Bush are good mates and will rub each others backs if needed.

    I don’t think anybody should ask a socialist scotsman what he thinks about the US eh Sonic?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. reid () says:

    What are Cheney’s polls reading now, sonic?

    Objective, mild, understated comment from Olbermann. People who don’t get it are really fucking stupid. And I don’t usually swear.

    http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/07/03/keith-olbermanns-special-comment-you-ceased-to-be-the-president-of-the-united-states/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. reid () says:

    Just a thought. Remember how Bush, when Texas governor, executed more people than any other governor in history? How many was it? 200+ – something like 245?

    There was one and only one person however, whose sentence he commuted.

    Henry Lee Lucas.

    Doesn’t that tell you something?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. Dead Duck Dux () says:

    Reid you’re being too subtle for some around. Let’s call these state sanctioned murders “forensic late-term post natal abortions” Maybe that will make the irony a bit more opaque for the slower participants.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. Redbaiter () says:

    “Objective, mild, understated comment from Olbermann.”

    FFS, what cave have you people crawled out of?? How uninformed can you get? What delirium is it that causes you to reference such a discredited leftist propagandist apparently without the slightest awareness of his well known political affiliations? Objective??? Objective??? Obfuckenjective?????????

    ????????????????????????????????????

    Spit. Just fucken amazing.

    http://www.mediaresearch.org/realitycheck/2006/fax20060627.asp

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. kiwi in america () says:

    Bush hating Kiwis finding solace in the words of ranting leftist Olbermann -its quite humourous. It is interesting to note that American TV viewers vote with their remotes and have consigned Olbermann’s show (and his channel MSNBC) to the ratings scrapheap. The overwhelmingly dominant cable news shows are Fox’s “OReilly Factor” and “Hannity and Colmes” who out-rate all their competition combined.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. Aliveone () says:

    At Libby’s trial it was revealed that he lied about leaking undercover CIA officer Valerie Plame’s identity in 2003 because Cheney’s office wanted to discredit Plame’s husband, former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, who was a strong public critic of the administration’s decision to go to war in Iraq.

    Wilson had traveled to Niger in February 2002 on a CIA-sponsored mission to investigate allegations that Saddam Hussein’s regime had attempted to procure weapons-grade uranium from the African nation. Wilson reported to the CIA that from what he could learn the allegations were almost certainly untrue. In a July 6, 2003, op-ed in The New York Times, Wilson charged that the Bush administration had “twisted” intelligence information when it cited the alleged Niger-Iraq connection in the president’s State of Union address earlier that year.

    As one part of an effort to counter Wilson’s allegations and to discredit him, Libby and other Bush administration officials told reporters that Wilson’s wife selected him to go on the CIA mission, suggesting nepotism.

    Libby’s trial has also brought Cheney’s role to center stage. According to evidence and testimony, Cheney selectively leaked and declassified intelligence information to bolster the administration’s case for war and later to defend against charges that he had misrepresented prewar intelligence.

    Even former Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Bob Graham has stated:

    “It’s hard to believe that the chief of staff to the vice president was acting as a rogue agent. What we have learned from the trial validates the suspicion that Libby was not just operating as a lone ranger. He was carrying out what the vice president wanted him to do, which was to besmirch Joe Wilson. I think Libby has been a conspirator in one of the most reprehensible and damaging breaches of American security in modern history.”

    However this will all seemingly go down the memory hole. Libby will skip jail and Cheney will face no recrimination.

    And what of Bush? While Libby takes the fall over the Wilson/Plame affair, will anyone remember that at the very core of it was the speech that Bush gave to the nation in 2003 whereupon he announced that Iraq had sought to buy uranium from Niger , a claim the CIA had informed the administration was based on falsified documents ten months before it was included in the speech.

    This bullshit is just one of the many instances where Bush has committed an impeachable offense by knowingly lying to the American people. Americans wake up from your slumber

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. james cairney () says:

    “Many non partisan legal observers considered the panel’s decision to deny bail was harsh.”

    As well as,

    “Mostly juries get it right but not always.”

    So KIA, you support freedom pending appeal (post conviction), interesting. Extremely liberal, but interesting.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. Redbaiter () says:

    “This bullshit is just one of the many instances where Bush has committed an impeachable offense by knowingly lying to the American people.”

    You people are the liars. The story you tell above is a complete fabrication. Your thesis has been debunked a hundred times, and still you hate driven politically motivated crazy commies come back with your fictions. Like rust, you never sleep, but work endlessly and gradually away at destroying freedom and democracy.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. Aliveone () says:

    So your saying Redbaiter that Bush, Cheyney and Rove are clean on this one, when are you Bush Loving Dingbats gonna wake up. Your blindness is whats gonna land America into a fascist police state. Put a frikin barcode on you head bushite. Hey, you’d probably say that Grandaddy Bush’s fortune DIDN’t come from working for Hitler either.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. Redbaiter () says:

    “Put a frikin barcode on you head bushite.”

    OK- Put one lie from Bush here. Your best lie. Let’s see if it stands the test or whether its just the usual cowardly smear.

    I don’t want any hearsay from partisan sources. I don’t want any “reports” from bigoted left wing media outlets. I want George Bush’s words, reported accurately, enclosed in speech marks, with a time and a date and a source. You say above there are many lies. But don’t give us more than one. Not necessary. Don’t give me web references, long lists, wild unsubstantiated allegations, empty hate driven smears, (because that’s what your kind always do to try and conceal the fact that you can’t actually provide one lie).

    Come on big mouth. Lets see it. The one lie from Bush to prove your case. The best one you can find, and let’s see if your allegation stands up to scrutiny. One lie. Either do it, of fuck off with your endless cowardly smears.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. Redbaiter () says:

    “Put a frikin barcode on you head bushite.”

    OK- Put one lie from Bush here. Your best lie. Let’s see if it stands the test or whether its just the usual cowardly smear.

    I don’t want any hearsay from partisan sources. I don’t want any “reports” from bigoted left wing media outlets. I want George Bush’s words, reported accurately, enclosed in speech marks, with a time and a date and a source. You say above there are many lies. But don’t give us more than one. Not necessary. Don’t give me web references, long lists, wild unsubstantiated allegations, empty hate driven smears, (because that’s what your kind always do to try and conceal the fact that you can’t actually provide one lie).

    Come on big mouth. Lets see it. The one lie from Bush to prove your case. The best one you can find, and let’s see if your allegation stands up to scrutiny. One lie. Either do it, of fuck off with your endless cowardly smears.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. Danyl Mclauchlan () says:

    Bush Defacation Scandal Running Out of Steam
    Reuters
    29 February 2008
    THE MAN at the center of the Bush Defacation Scandal, New Zealand citizen Clint Heine has come out in defense of the President in a strongly worded public statement providing much needed political cover for the White House.

    One week ago the President broke into Heine’s home tied him down and defacated in his mouth, acts that draw sharp criticism from Democratic Senators and even some Republicans. Heine, however, has come out strongly in favor of the right of the Executive to attack people and fill their mouths with excrement.

    ‘These people who want to prevent President Bush from enjoying himself in whatever manner he pleases have already let the terrorists win,’ Heine announced in a press statement. ‘Any attempt to curtain the Presidents ability to fill peoples mouths with warm, steaming ordure must be seen as the base, partisan political trickery typical of the democrats.’

    ‘Why don’t [House Speaker] Pelosi and [Senate Leader] Reid just let the President get on with his scatophilia and address the issues that people really care about?’

    In a later statement to the press Heine launched a furious attack on former President Bill Clinton.

    ‘Clinton went to the bathroom all the time. And you can bet his fecal matter was bitter and unhygenic – not delicious and savory like Bush’s was.’ When reporters raised the issue that Clinton deposited his faeces in a toilet and not peoples mouth Heine dismissed the point as irrelevent ‘Bush bashing’.

    President Bush, squatting and straining over the bound form of an unidentified individual known only as ‘Redbaiter’ was not available for comment.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. james cairney () says:

    Nice Danyl

    And RB, “Put one lie from Bush here” “Come on big mouth. Lets see it. The one lie from Bush to prove your case. [...] One lie.”

    OK then, clean the poo from your mouth to make way for :

    “[CNN, Aired December 4, 2001]
    QUESTION: … how did you feel when you heard about the terrorist attack?

    BUSH: ” Well… (APPLAUSE) Thank you, Jordan. Well, you’re not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my chief of staff, Andy Card — actually I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower — the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, “There’s one terrible pilot.” And I said, “It must have been a horrible accident.” But I was whisked off there — I didn’t have much time to think about it, and I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my chief who was sitting over here walked in and said, “A second plane has hit the tower. America’s under attack.” ”
    .

    .

    .

    .
    Of course the video of the first plane hitting did not surface until September 12, well *after the second plane hit*.

    “But don’t give us more than one [Bush lie]. Not necessary.” (Redbaiter July 5 2007 12:32).

    How does that Texan poo taste Redbaiter, want more?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. Aliveone () says:

    Oh how could I resist, and please anyone else whos got some bush lies please feel free to share for Red Baiters sake.

    “Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists,” Bush said in his Oct. 7 speech in Cincinnati.

    “Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.”
    State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

    “U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein
    had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable
    of delivering chemical agents.”
    State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

    “Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications and statements by people
    now in custody reveal that
    Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of Al Qaida.”
    State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

    “Our intelligence sources tell us that he (Saddam) has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production.”
    State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

    “We have also discovered through intelligence
    that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas.”
    State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003
    “Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications and statements by people
    now in custody reveal that
    Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of Al Qaida.”
    State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

    “Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at [past nuclear] sites.”
    Bush speech to the nation – 10/7/2002

    “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.”
    State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

    “We gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn’t let them in.”
    Bush Press Conference 7/14/2003

    “We found the weapons of mass destruction!”

    “We are working closely with governments in Asia to convince North Korea to abandon its nuclear ambitions.”

    “We are working with European allies to make clear to the Iranian regime that it must give up its uranium enrichment program and any plutonium reprocessing.”

    “There are still regimes seeking weapons of mass destruction – but no longer without attention and without consequence.”

    “It’s your money,” Bush told thousands of supporters at the University of North Dakota. It’s money you can decide to leave to whomever you want. It’s money the government can never take away.”

    Well, Jordan (ph), you’re not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my chief of staff, Andy Card — actually I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower — the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, “There’s one terrible pilot.” And I said, “It must have been a horrible accident.”

    But I was whisked off there — I didn’t have much time to think about it, and I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my chief who was sitting over here walked in and said, “A second plane has hit the tower. America’s under attack.”

    Do you want more!!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. james cairney () says:

    Redbaiter to Aliveone “one lie from Bush to prove your case”

    And with that Redbaiter implicitly concedes that Aliveone’s case is proven. I love it how nearly every thread ends up with several posters handing Bedwetter his arse over some ludicrous fantastic claim he’s made, it’s gold.

    Gobble all them Texan poos Baiter. Yummy yummy eh boy?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. Redbaiter () says:

    Jimmy Cairney, you’re an idiot. Here’s you and all your buddies claiming Bush lied to justify the war in Iraq, and saying what a demon he is, and I ask youthem for your BEST lie, and that load of worthless crap is all you can come up with???? Hahah, I have to laff Jimmy, you’re so fucken weak you’re funny. (which is more than I can say for your gross and witless buddy Danyl)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. Redbaiter () says:

    “Oh how could I resist, and please anyone else whos got some bush lies please feel free to share for Red Baiters sake.”

    You’re so fucken thick you dumbarse you can’t even answer a simple request- such as to post your ONE and BEST lie. Your comprehension skills, as with all leftists, are so crippled, you cannot even comply with such a simple question, so how in hell could you ever muster the intelligence or discernment to tell if a claim was a lie or not??

    I’ll give you one more chance. Here is the request again. Please post ONE lie here. Let me explain what ONE means knuckle dragger. Thst’s ONE less than two and ONE more than zero. Got it you gross simpleton??

    Just choose ONE lie (from the above if you so wish) and make sure its your best lie.

    Let me repeat a few of the criteria I specified in the previous post, that you apparently had so much trouble comprehending.

    “don’t give us more than one. Not necessary. Don’t give me web references, long lists, wild unsubstantiated allegations, empty hate driven smears, (because that’s what your kind always do to try and conceal the fact that you can’t actually provide one lie).

    Come on big mouth. Lets see it. The one lie from Bush to prove your case. The best one you can find, and let’s see if your allegation stands up to scrutiny. One lie.”

    You can’t read, you can’t comprehend, you have the intelligence levels of a pre-teen child, and all you are capable of is cowardly yellow backed smears and false allegations. Care to try again you brain damaged time wasting uneducated infant. Go on, make my day punk.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. roger nome () says:

    hehe, the sincerity in your rabid stupidity is endearing Mr Baiter. The problem is that you know the truth, it’s been shown to you in ample detail above, but you just don’t have the level of emotional maturity to bring yourself to accept it. It’s there, staring you in the face – bush lied so that he and his mates could go on a Texan adventure in the missile-east, whilst making vast amounts of money (Halliburton) in the process. I know it’s a hard one for a rabid republican supporter such as yourself to swallow, but you just have to let it go, old chap. Give up the illusions that you once held about Bush, really it does no good for your mental state to have to keep on defending the indefensible. Just relax and let the truth set you free.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  68. Redbaiter () says:

    “hehe, the sincerity… blah blah blah”

    Wow, you must think someone actually cares about your opinion of Redbaiter you dumbfuck.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  69. roger nome () says:

    You know, each time you refer to yourself in the third-person, I lose a bit more of the little hope that I have for your frail mental state/sanity Mr Baiter.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  70. james cairney () says:

    It’s the funniest of his lies, and the most bizzare, and one that you cannot refute with any of your normal weak, spurious garbage. It is also one that shows that the guy is willing to make shit up for no good reason at all (as well as when he stands to gain). Because he is so full of shit it is beyond a joke. One that can withstand all scrutiny, and …..

    And you ignore it, yet you asked for just one lie.

    And, you ignore Aliveone’s because (he/she) dished out more than one. You’re a coward. You have just been totally outclassed (again), and (as usual) you run away from the ‘scrutiny’ you announced you would apply.

    Apply away with that scrutiny coward boy. How is that *not a lie*?

    It goes like this kiddo:
    Liar = person who lies.
    Example above = Lie by Bush.
    Conclusion = Bush is a liar.

    Redbaiter’s definition:

    Liar = Liberal who tells lies.
    Bush = Not a liberal.
    Conclusion = Bush is not a liar.

    I think coward-boy will run the, “it’s a lie so I’m wrong, but it’s not an important lie so I’m not badly wrong” line!

    Hahaha, how’s that Texan poo taste? clear your mouth Baiter.

    .

    And this is also gold “you must think someone actually cares about your opinion of Redbaiter you dumbfuck.”
    hahaahahahahha, it’s obvious someone does care mate, YOU!

    And as for your alias referring to itself in the third person, that’s just plain weird.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  71. Redbaiter () says:

    Cairney, fuck off you boring lame waste of space, I’m sick of you and the deluional belief you can act as umpire. Its all your posts ever consist of, bigoted and unfounded jusgements about your opponenets being beaten. An IQ of about 75 I’d guess, or you would realise the utter worthlessness of such unobjective adjudications.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  72. roger nome () says:

    All bluster and no substance as usual I see Master Baiter.

    “An IQ of about 75 I’d guess, or you would realise the utter worthlessness of such unobjective adjudications.”

    Actually James strikes me as a fairly bright guy. I’d guess that he’s got an IQ similar to mine, somewhere in the vicinity of 115 to 125 (my lowest and highest scores).

    You on the other hand, strike me as someone who can string a decent argument together at times, but unfortunately lacks the emotional stability to exercise sober judgment. Just my observations though.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  73. Redbaiter () says:

    Aliveone won’t post the one lie because he know’s he’ll be exposed as a false accuser. He won’t post one lie because he knows that if we take any of his claims on a one by one basis, he’ll lose.

    You could always prove me wrong Deadone. Chose whatever lie you prefer from the above and post it below, and I’ll prove that your allegations are false. C’mon, what’s keeping you??

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  74. reid () says:

    Redbaiter my second link on a Bush lies google search got me this:

    http://www.bushlies.net/

    Look at the #1 lie:

    “Stay the Course. During an October 22, 2006 interview on ABC’s This Week, President Bush tried to distance himself from what has been his core strategy in Iraq for the last three years. George Stephanopoulos asked about James Baker’s plan to develop a strategy for Iraq that is “between ’stay the course’ and ‘cut and run.’”

    Bush responded, ‘We’ve never been stay the course, George!’ ”

    Stop right there.

    Bush’s comment is on video if you think he didn’t say it.

    The same site also has plenty of citations where Bush has said “stay the course.”

    Gee. I’m shocked.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  75. Clint Heine () says:

    Who pulled Danyls chain?

    Note that everybody is ignoring you guys now.
    I wonder what you will all do for panty sniffing when Bush ends his term?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  76. reid () says:

    Perhaps we could get back to the point, which is why Bush, a man that pardoned one of the worst serial killers in US history – Henry Lee Lucas – but refused to pardon other far more deserving cases, would pardon Libby.

    Why?

    http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2712.htm

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  77. Redbaiter () says:

    “Look at the #1 lie:”

    Yeah exactly. Look at it. All of the lies Bush is alleged to have told to justify the war with Iraq, and the Number One Lie is this worthless little escapade FROM LATE 2006 FOR CHRISSAKE.

    Don’t you people have any shame? Any sense of the absurd? I ask for your best lie, and all you can come up with is this..?? From 2006?

    And its not necessarily a lie. It’s merely George Bush’s bumbling attempt to realign the phrase after the Democrats had turned it to imply a strategic vacuum, a rigidity of thought, a kind of plodding walk to a far and distant finish line. This was the context Stephanopoulos was using it in, and Bush was trying to reassert the true meaning of the phrase as he had used it, which was to stick to the objective but utilize different strategies to reach that objective.

    I admit it was clumsy speech (which Bush is quite often guilty of), but to call it a lie, and to call it the best lie, and to call it the kind of lie that a man should be hung or impeached over only proves one thing. The left have no real lie. It raises the question, if the Bush administration is the cunning Machiavellian cadre the left maintain, then how could he try to lie so openly in such a public venue?

    Nevertheless Reid, I give you credit for at least rising to the challenge in an honourable way, and responding in accordance with the criteria I specified, in that you provided just the one alleged lie in isolation, thereby allowing the charge to be discussed more factually and critically.

    You predecessors continue to try and disguise the weakness of their argument by posting a whole host of partisan allegations, knowing I can’t be bothered facing down so many falsities at one time. But they’re cowards. Your claim is inaccurate and in the context of the usual attacks on Bush, quite worthless, but at least Reid, you had the guts to give it a go.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  78. Aliveone () says:

    Sorry Redbaiter, I couldn’t get back to you in time, you know work and training, family etc. I see you couldn’t hold out from frothing at your keyboard for a short while. Is all your response drivelled down to swearing and name calling. Typical.
    Look at those lies I supplied you, do you think that they aren’t up to it. They indeed warrant a intellegent debunking from you. The very fact that hundreds of experienced war chiefs, soldiers, journos and analysts have saids this, even with video footage of Bush lieing to boot, is such a shame that they have nothing on you Red. These lies I gave you contributed to a PROVEN ACT of lies that led to war against a country that DID NOT THREATEN the US, that has led to the deaths of 655,000 Iraqis, DOD real figures put 10000 US Soldiers, and over 100000 wounded. The world now HATES America because of Bush, and terrorism has multiplied, and you want to know why Redbaiter, it called BLOWBACK, look it up, you might learn something.
    The NWO for you is close at hand, and Bush is your master Red. Hes sooo honest, thats why his popularity, even with his OWN PARTY is terrirble, ohh and thats to the Libby pardon, it just dropped again. Hmmm all that honesty is just darn harmful to his popularity, aint it Red.
    But for now riddle me this.
    MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
    On May 1, 2003, President Bush stood underneath a “Mission Accomplished” banner and announced that “Major combat operations have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.”

    Oh, and before you find Snows respose to the media, the public know that speech was shit too.
    Goodbye Red, Its time for bed.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  79. Redbaiter () says:

    “Sorry Redbaiter,”

    Please don’t apologize, I don’t accept apologies from propagandists for terrorists. I don’t accept apologies from liars and smearers. I don’t accept apologies from cowards who would prefer to scuttle under their rock than confront a simple challenge.

    Here’s a clue. Don’t waste my time and yours with insincere apologies and long winded attempts to divert from your abject failure to prove your case.

    You say Bush lied.

    Just meet the challenge. Post your ONE BEST LIE here. Just the ONE, and prove it is inarguably a lie. Meet the challenge you weak mindless coward, or shut the fuck up.

    Meet the challenge, or admit that Redbaiter has just exposed the truth.

    The truth that the left’s propaganda campaign against George Bush is itself a lie, whereas you can’t prove one lie against George Bush.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  80. Aliveone () says:

    Hey Red, resorting to swearing again. What a sorry fool. Cant debunk the one I just supplied you?. What a dumbass, you wanted one, I gave you one, yet all you can do is froth.
    Your reply has just showed me how full of shit you really are.
    Confirmed by other threads, and responses to your drivel by others.
    If you cant do what you say you are gonna do than, than get a life.
    I wont resort to swearing, because when you get to that, its shows how worthless the argument really is and how despirate or intellegent your argument really is. Like many of your other responses and as many other posters have resorted to is ignoring you.
    Wake up Red.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  81. exocet () says:

    I’d not bother with the lightweight ‘Aliveone’ RB.

    Anyone who quotes the massivly bebunked lancet ‘estimate’ of Iraqi civian casualties as fact is not living on this planet.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  82. Clint Heine () says:

    lol, ironic Aliveone accuses somebody of swearing and then goes off on a swearing rant not unlike something you see frothing outside a US embassy on anti capitalist marches.

    No wonder the left make for such great humour.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  83. Redbaiter () says:

    Wow, so finally, you’re prepared to front up. You’re at last prepared to put your money where your mouth is. You’re at last prepared to try and put some substance to your lies and smears, your terrorist propaganda.

    You said-

    “Can’t debunk the one I just supplied you”?

    Ok, so this means the “lie” that you are putting up as your best example, the most insurmountable obstacle to anyone wanting to say that George Bush is not a liar, is the following-

    George Bush 01/05/03

    “Major combat operations have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.”

    Once again, I just can’t believe you people. Are you really this wet?? This hopeless?? Here you are above, ranting and raving for post after post while you tried to avoid my challenge, about how Bush lied to go to war in Iraq, and now, when you’re finally backed into a corner and have to come up with one lie, you select a post war utterance as the one you want me to rebut???

    Secondly, your allegation that this is a lie is so weak, I know without doubt that I can thoroughly demolish it with minimum effort.

    Readers who are following this exchange should note well the behaviour of the left on this issue, and learn how easy it is to destroy their propaganda. Note well, and in future, do not let them escape so easy with their lies and smears. They must be confronted. On this issue and every issue. Propaganda is their main weapon. The propagandists fears truth like vampires fear the wooden stake, so truth is what you hit them with.

    As for the claim that the above statement by Bush is a “lie”-

    The first thing that readers need to appreciate is that with all of the left’s attacks on George Bush, the statement above lacks context. What Bush said in the context of the complete speech is quite accurate, in that the Iraqi army had been vanquished and major operations in that respect were complete. The left have also chopped part of the sentence in order to change the meaning. The rest of the sentence is -

    “..and now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country”

    In the same speech Bush also said-

    “We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We’re bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We’re pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime, who will be held to account for their crimes.

    And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq as they establish a government of, by, and for the Iraqi people.

    “The transition from dictatorship to democracy will take time,”

    “The war on terror is not over; yet it is not endless. We do not know the day of final victory, but we have seen the turning of the tide.”

    “Our mission continues. Al Qaeda is wounded, not destroyed. The scattered cells of the terrorist network still operate in many nations, and we know from daily intelligence that they continue to plot against free people.”

    So any reasonable reader is able to see that the Bush’s accusers are the real liars. They chop off the end of his sentence, and do all they can to create the impression Bush said something he didn’t, and then call that a lie. Remember well readers, who the liars always are.

    The biggest lie the left will tell you is that they care for democracy and freedom. Their propaganda campaign against George Bush is part of their long term strategy to gradually destroy democracy and freedom. The left have never cared for those two qualities. Learn from this. Don’t fall victim to their deceit.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  84. kiwi in america () says:

    Aliveone
    Your reporting of the Valerie Plame case was as full of as many holes as has been her husband Joe Wilson’s allegations on these matters. The left’s case is that after Wilson’s visit to Niger he rubbished Bush’s claim that Saddam Hussein had been trying to obtain yellow cake uranium from Niger as stated in his 2003 State of the Union address. Wilson claims to have proven Bush a liar and his wife’s alleged outing by Libby was revenge for Wilson’s speaking ‘truth to power’.

    One of the most stunning revelations contained in the Senate Intelligence Committee report on the CIA at http://intelligence.senate.gov/threats.pdf is that virtually everything Joseph Wilson has said about his trip to Niger is a lie.

    First, contrary to what Wilson has said publicly, his wife Valerie Plame did recommend him for the Niger investigation. The report states that a CIA official told the Senate committee that Plame “offered up” Wilson’s name for the Niger trip, then on 12 Feb 2002, sent a memo to a deputy chief in the CIA’s Directorate of Operations saying her husband “has good relations with both the PM and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.” The next day, the operations official cabled an overseas officer seeking concurrence with the idea of sending Wilson, the report said. When confronted with the Senate report, on 12 March 2005 Wilson could only offer a lame denial saying Plame was not the person who made the decision to send him. Of her memo, he said: “I don’t see it as a recommendation to send me.”

    Secondly, the Senate report indicates that Plame and Wilson, from the beginning, had an absurdly biased view of the subject Wilson was supposed to be investigating: “The report said Plame told committee staffers that she relayed the CIA’s request to her husband, saying, ‘there’s this crazy report’ about a purported deal for Niger to sell uranium to Iraq”. As has been widely reported, Wilson conducted a half-baked investigation into the uranium report. But in his book and in countless interviews and op-ed pieces over a 12 month period, Wilson lied about the contents of his own report to the CIA. The report also said Wilson provided misleading information to The Washington Post in June 2004. He said then that he concluded the Niger intelligence was based on documents that had clearly been forged because “the dates were wrong and the names were wrong.” “Committee staff asked how the former ambassador could have come to the conclusion that the ‘dates were wrong and the names were wrong’ when he had never seen the CIA reports and had no knowledge of what names and dates were in the reports,” the Senate panel said. Wilson told the panel he may have been confused and may have “misspoken” to reporters.

    The documents, purported sales agreements between Niger and Iraq, were not in U.S. hands until eight months AFTER Wilson made his trip to Niger. Wilson’s reports to the CIA added to the evidence that Iraq may have tried to buy uranium in Niger, although officials at the State Department remained highly skeptical, the report said. Wilson said that a former PM of Niger, Ibrahim Assane Mayaki, was unaware of any sales contract with Iraq, but said that in June 1999 a businessman approached him, insisting that he meet with an Iraqi delegation to discuss “expanding commercial relations” between Niger and Iraq — which Mayaki interpreted to mean they wanted to discuss yellowcake sales. A report CIA officials drafted after debriefing Wilson said that “although the meeting took place, Mayaki let the matter drop due to UN sanctions on Iraq.”According to the former Niger mining minister, Wilson told his CIA contacts, Iraq tried to buy 400 tons of uranium in 1998.
    So – what Wilson actually told the CIA, contrary to his own oft-repeated claims, is that he was told by the former mining minister of Niger that in 1998, Iraq had tried to buy 400 tons of uranium from that country, and that Iraq’s overture was renewed the following year. What Wilson reported to the CIA was exactly the same as what President Bush said in his 2003 State of the Union address: there was evidence that Iraq had tried to buy uranium in Africa. Britain’s MI6 came to the same conclusion about Iraq’s intentions in Niger and have never retracted their conclusion.

    Wilson’s famous op-ed in the New York Times, published on 6 July 2003, which ignited the whole firestorm over the famous “sixteen words” in Bush’s State of the Union speech. “In January, President Bush, citing the British dossier, repeated the charges about Iraqi efforts to buy uranium from Africa. The next day, I reminded a friend at the State Department of my trip and suggested that if the president had been referring to Niger, then his conclusion was not borne out by the facts as I understood them.”

    It was this flat-out lie about what Wilson learned in Niger, and what he reported to the CIA upon his return, that fueled the “sixteen words” controversy and led to the publication of Wilson’s best-selling account, titled, ironically, The Politics of Truth. One can only conclude that Joseph Wilson has perpetrated one of the most astonishing hoaxes in American history.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  85. Aliveone () says:

    Decided to front up?? are you that insane Red, I had ALREADY put it to you before. My god what a nutcase. Are you such a nutter to not know that Al Qaeda was funded, harboured and trained by the CIA. The bullshit called the War on Terror is garbage, you can see no wrong in Bush or his cabal of thugs. Cheyney runs Amerika for the Neocons, and the Zionist pigs from Isreal. Bush is a dumbass cocaine loving, drunk dropkick and the few Bushlovers left are so brainwashed they can only believe his tripe.
    Billions see Bush as he is, a chimp, a puppet and a lier, (worldwide polls and responses CONFIRM IT and so is Rove, Cheyney, Rice, Rummy and Powell. Powell pissed off because his bullshit and involvement in the Biggest lie to invade Iraq after he was to there was no WMD’s. The media are owned by them, and now they own you.
    Some people know history and know the same bullshit thats happening now has happened before. Hitlers reichtag . Results = world wars. All it takes is patriotic Bush sympathysers like your ilk.
    Now go join the ever lessening Bush worshippers and pray for rapture.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  86. Redbaiter () says:

    “Billions see Bush as he is, a chimp, a puppet and a lier, (sic)”

    You keep saying he’s a liar, but when asked for proof, you fade away. I’ve just dealt with what you termed your best example, so that means any others will be worse than useless. Want to try again? Give me another so called lie, I’ll rubbish it as easily as I rubbished your first feeble attempt.

    This is the truth- You’re the liar, an evil hate driven Nazi style propagandist with only one ambition and that is to destroy freedom and democracy.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  87. Aliveone () says:

    If you think freedom and democracy is starting a war using bullshit, and info stuffups, and killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, killing Afginis and creating means to carry on into Iran, you trully are a nutter. Saying your hunting for Osama, yet allowing him to have kidney dialysis in a US Naval Hospital and protecting his family, hitting countries other than Saudi Arabia where the Suicide Hijackers came from makes one wonder about Bushes Democracy.
    I believe in freedom, I also believe in Democracy and one thing I know, IT DOES NOT COME THROUGH KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE.
    Ohh its funny how Bushes democracy spreads to mainly countries with oil and resources the US pilfers.

    Your now asking me for the answers you were going to provide, here I’ll memind you.
    Come on big mouth. Lets see it. The one lie from Bush to prove your case. The best one you can find, and let’s see if your allegation stands up to scrutiny. One lie. Either do it, of fuck off with your endless cowardly smears.

    I supplied it and you just kept ranting on.

    Remember, crickey you are a nutter.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  88. Redbaiter () says:

    “I supplied it and you just kept ranting on.”

    You supplied it, and I demolished it for the weak false and cowardly allegation it was. Got another one arsehole? I’ll do the same to it. You have nothing but lies and propaganda and bluster. C’mon commie, where’s your next best lie??? Gone double yellow now?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  89. kiwi in america () says:

    Aliveone
    When I sifted through all your ranting and found your definitive “Bush lies” post it is interesting that almost every single one of Bush’s quotes involving rationale for the war in Iraq quoted the opinion of intelligence agencies. Now we can rightly surmise that he is referring to the CIA. However it is important to note that all the major intelligence agencies in the world (Britain’s MI6, France’s DGSE, Russia’s KGB replacement and Israel’s Mossad) had all reached the same conclusion about the possibility of Saddam Hussein having weapons of mass destruction. Furthermore, many prominent Democrats who read the intelligence briefings from the CIA had reached similar conclusions. This list includes President Clinton (and various of his Administrations key national security advisors), Senators Hillary Clinton and John Kerry and in fact all Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee.

    So my question for you is – how is Bush lying when he quotes the same intelligence findings that were believed by the intelligence agencies of key US allies and informed insiders in Washington of BOTH parties? All the Democrats who made public comments about the likelihood of the Iraqis possessing WMD and voted to authorise the war are now disavowing themselves of their previous positions to pander to the anti-war base of their own party. I find it ironic that the Clintons should accuse Bush of lying about WMD when both of them made similar comments about Saddam Hussein.

    We now know that the CIA overstated the extent to which Saddam Hussein had operational WMD capacity but how is it lying to base your views on what many considered to be at the time a fair assessment. Its very easy to be what the Americans call a Monday morning quarterback.

    It is interesting to actually read what the Iraq Study Group https://www.cia.gov/news-information/speeches-testimony/2003/david_kay_10022003.html says about pre-war Iraq “Saddam wanted to recreate Iraq’s WMD capability—which was essentially destroyed in 1991—after sanctions were removed and Iraq’s economy stabilized, but probably with a different mix of capabilities to that which previously existed. Saddam aspired to develop a nuclear capability—in an incremental fashion, irrespective of international pressure and the resulting economic risks—but he intended to focus on ballistic missile and tactical chemical warfare (CW) capabilities.”

    “Saddam, at least as judged by those scientists and other insiders who worked in his military-industrial programs, had not given up his aspirations and intentions to continue to acquire weapons of mass destruction. Even those senior officials we have interviewed who claim no direct knowledge of any on-going prohibited activities readily acknowledge that Saddam intended to resume these programs whenever the external restrictions were removed. Several of these officials acknowledge receiving inquiries since 2000 from Saddam or his sons about how long it would take to either restart CW production or make available chemical weapons.”

    “In the delivery systems area there were already well advanced, but undeclared, on-going activities that, if OIF had not intervened, would have resulted in the production of missiles with ranges at least up to 1000 km, well in excess of the UN permitted range of 150 km. These missile activities were supported by a serious clandestine procurement program about which we have much still to learn.”

    “In the chemical and biological weapons area we have confidence that there were at a minimum clandestine on-going research and development activities that were embedded in the Iraqi Intelligence Service. While we have much yet to learn about the exact work programs and capabilities of these activities, it is already apparent that these undeclared activities would have at a minimum facilitated chemical and biological weapons activities and provided a technically trained cadre.”

    Hussein had previously possessed and used WMD (on the Iranians, the Kurds and the Marsh Arabs). He played cat and mouse with UN weapons inspectors for 10 years when, if he really had no WMD, why not co-operate. Hans Blix’s inspectors said in their report to the UN that there were large caches of chemicals easily used in chemical warfare unaccounted for and we now know from the analysis of the Iraqi intelligence files that he used the Oil for Food programme to bribe key officials from the UN, Russia and France to circumvent the sanctions as David Kay of the ISG said “By 2000-2001, Saddam had managed to mitigate many of the effects of sanctions and undermine their international support. Iraq was within striking distance of a de facto end to the sanctions regime, both in terms of oil exports and the trade embargo, by the end of 1999.”

    Finally, Hussein had plenty of time to move or bury the most damaging evidence long before the arrival of coalition troops so it was no surprise to me that there was no huge obvious smoking gun the Americans could point to.

    So you’re going to have to come up with some better ‘lies’ than your effort to date I’m afraid. Also deafening silence I note on my response to what really happened with Plame and Wilson.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  90. kiwi in america () says:

    Iraq Study Group should read Iraq Survey Group – the former authored by James Baker the latter by David Kay

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  91. Redbaiter () says:

    “Also deafening silence I note on my response to what really happened with Plame and Wilson.’

    Exactly. Actually, if we had a media that wasn’t in the pocket of the left, these false allegations from the Bush haters would have been exposed long ago for the weak unsubstantiated lies that they really are.

    If we had so called Conservative parties with some guts and some intelligence and some ability to articulate, the left would never have got away with this pathetic propaganda offensive.

    The silence of the Nats in NZ on this issue has just been appalling. They don’t yet know the old adage if you don’t fight you lose. ..and so they adjust their thinking and their ground to move closer to the left rather than give them the ideological beating that they should. Its so easy to expose the left for the charlatans and hate mongers and liars and totalitarians they are. WTF is stopping the Nats??? The Bush lied campaign is as full of logic holes and propaganda as the left’s global warming bullshit. The Nats should be going for them on both issues.

    Bernard Goldberg wrote a book called “Crazies to the Left of Me, Wimps to the Right”. ..and he’s so correct, the right are a bunch of pathetic girls..

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  92. Clint Heine () says:

    Aliveone 0 – Redbaiter/Kiwi in America 10.

    Who can take anybody serious when he goes on about AmeriKa, Neo Cons, Zionist pigs and Bush being a chimp when it’s well recorded that Bush is highly educated and I suspect at several levels higher than Aliveone will ever get to.

    In his world everything is a conspiracy theory and in his world it won’t be over until Bush leaves the White House… until he finds more pantys to sniff elsewhere. At least now we know he hates America, so it’s a start.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  93. reid () says:

    Wish I’d kept up with this debate before it dropped into the archives.

    KIA, this CBS interview with the CIA’s Head of Europe directly contradicts your above post.

    http://thinkprogress.org/2006/04/23/60-minutes-cia-official-reveals-bush-cheney-rice-were-personally-told-iraq-had-no-wmd-in-fall-2002

    BRADLEY: According to Drumheller, CIA Director George Tenet delivered the news about the Iraqi foreign minister at a high level meeting at the White House.

    DRUMHELLER: The President, the Vice President, Dr. Rice…

    BRADLEY: And at that meeting…?

    DRUMHELLER: They were enthusiastic because they said they were excited that we had a high-level penetration of Iraqis.

    BRADLEY: And what did this high level source tell you?

    DRUMHELLER: He told us that they had no active weapons of mass destruction program.

    BRADLEY: So, in the fall of 2002, before going to war, we had it on good authority from a source within Saddam’s inner circle that he didn’t have an active program for weapons of mass destruction?

    DRUMHELLER: Yes.

    BRADLEY: There’s no doubt in your mind about that?

    DRUMHELLER: No doubt in my mind at all.

    BRADLEY: It directly contradicts, though, what the President and his staff were telling us.

    DRUMHELLER: The policy was set. The war in Iraq was coming, and they were looking for intelligence to fit into the policy, to justify the policy.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  94. Sam Finnemore () says:

    I didn’t think this could get any funnier. Then Redbaiter issues a challenge, it’s promptly met by a reply that satisfies the terms of the challenge (quote “ONE LIE” unquote), and then that post is ignored in favour of another flimsier one. Subsequent replies then turn RB into a mass of flailing limbs and spittle, accusing people of having the sole ambition of destroying freedom and democracy and cussing like there’s no tomorrow.

    Is he right or wrong about Bush? Who knows? But there’s nothing funnier than watching an Internet Tough Guy fail this hard at online debate.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.