DBP Comments
July 31st, 2007 at 9:18 pm by David FarrarA roundup of comment on the DBP affair.
The Dominion Post on Saturday said:
A conversation during which Mr Benson-Pope told Mr Logan he would “likely be less free and frank” in the presence of the ministry’s new communications head was misconstrued as, well, an indication he would “likely be less free and frank” in her presence.
This is all terribly unfair on Mr Benson-Pope, whose reputation has further been tarnished by mean-spirited nitpickers reminding him that when he was first asked if he or his office had played a part in Ms Setchell’s departure, he said: “No, I don’t know anything about the detail of that issue.”
So how is it that Ms Setchell got the push? The obvious answer is that politicians speak a different version of English. When Mr Benson-Pope said he didn’t know anything about the detail of the case it was assumed he was blissfully unaware of what had taken place. But what he actually meant was that he didn’t know how much compensation Ms Setchell was paid, what the weather was like on the day of her departure and what colour tie Mr Logan was wearing at the time.
The same day the NZ Herald says:
Mr Benson-Pope is departing because he seems to be congenitally incapable of “free and frank” explanations when he is cornered.
It is sad that at least one member of this Government and his political adviser do not credit people with professionalism. They are creatures, probably, of their own partisanship. That is not a sackable offence though perhaps it should be.
The country is better off without ministers and staff whose political instincts are so tribal they cannot trust anyone who consorts with the other side.
And finally the Press, also on Saturday, said:
No tag for this post.David Benson-Pope is gone from the Cabinet, at last. He should have been sacked long ago.
The episode that finally finished him this week has all the elements which have combined to become his political trademark in the past few years: slipperiness, bluster, economy with the truth, weasel words, an inability to separate low political intrigue from the standards demanded of a Cabinet minister, and an uncanny knack for turning trifling matters into debacles.
That Benson-Pope has survived this long is an indictment in itself and Helen Clark’s Government deserves to be squirming as the Prime Minister finally confronted the necessary business at hand.
The loss of an unpopular, underachieving Cabinet minister will not be a deadly blow to Labour. The party’s problem lies in what his performance represents, the perception it feeds of a Government laden with dead wood, uncertain how to proceed, stung into life only by internal crisis, and entirely reliant on Clark to drag it up when it stumbles.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:04 pm
My colleagues in the public service are gratified DBP has gone. His behaviour was a terrible intrusion on some well-established conventions.
But DBP’s departure is just one small victory. The real win for the public service is learning any future National-led government will apply a similarly high standard of behaviour to its own conduct and wouldn’t be pressuring any public servants to leave even if after Labour’s long period in ascendancy might lead to suggestions of cohabitation or, as they say in Primary Colors, “True Believerism”.
I am sure Key and co were motivated by the purest of intentions and acted entirely on principle and that Ms Setchell’s connection (via her partner) to National did not unduly colour its passion on this topic. I am sure if the Government had polaxed a senior manager for being similarly connected with the Maori Party or the Greens or Act, National would have stood squarely against the injustice. And good on them.
As someone who has previously managed the “child” of a former Cabinet minister and been on the panel recommending the appointment of a former Prime Minister’s “child”, I am glad to know if I ever move into a senior public service role, National would “have my back” in similar situations.
Vote:July 31st, 2007 at 10:30 pm
Come off it Duck. You’re a rabid leftist and to state that you’d be capable of objective judgment on things political is a claim only a naive child might believe.
One of NZ’s biggest problems is that its supposedly politically neutral public service has been stacked with leftists by Helen Klark and her acolytes, who have made it their business to trample all over tradition in their frantic obsession with power.
The well has been poisoned. National has a duty to all New Zealanders to cleanse the Public Service of Klark appointees, such rabid communists, socialists and other such ratbags as she has favoured in handing out jobs for the boys and girls. (read Trevor Loudon)
NZ has fallen into the grip of the leftist power machine. The left have toadies running most of the mainstream media. (TV One the most standout example). The upper level administration in the education system, the Police Force and much of the general bureaucracy is now merely an extension of the Labour Party. Managers even get fired if they don’t toe the party line, such as Kit Richards of Timberlands or Roy Hemmingway of the Electricity Commission.
National is not there to watch your back Duck. They’re there to watch the backs of ordinary New Zealanders, and its about damn time they started doing it. So if they’re elected they need to immediately start removing assorted leftists and Labour party suckholes from positions where they can unduly influence political outcomes in this country.
Vote:July 31st, 2007 at 10:32 pm
Dear Commissioner
Hugh Logan, in the Service of the Crown has allegedly used his position to disadvantage Madeline Setchell also in the Service of the Crown
You have a statutory responsibility to investigate the above complaint of a breach of the Crimes Act 1961, where breaches of the Act by those in the Service of the Crown are involved.
Vote:July 31st, 2007 at 10:35 pm
What will Helen’s spin doctors have to say when the Commissioner receives this allegation tomorrow?
Vote:July 31st, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Dead Duck Dux
The real victory for the public service is not learning any future National-led government will apply a similarly high standard of behaviour to its own conduct, rather that Labour may now stop allowing such appalling standards to be simply brushed off with a casual “Move on” ?
Any chance of a full commission of inquiry into Wishart’s allegations of sordid behaviour of police, MP’s, Lawyers, young girls, dogs and of course cash. All at a time when even prostitution was illegal… Have you simply forgotten how many incidents DB-P has been tangled up in?
As a person who’s quite keen to see the end of Labour and their “Labour party first” policies I was actually sad that DB-P was forced to go, he would have been a great liability for Labour to carry into an election.
Vote:July 31st, 2007 at 10:55 pm
DB-P has an easy way to restore his credibility if he wishes to. He could simply take Wishart to court on multiple charges for deformation. If he wins he walks back as the man that was wrongly accused. How much do you think he wants his ministerial role (and his dignity) back – enough to stand up and fight for it?
Vote:July 31st, 2007 at 11:06 pm
“National has a duty to all New Zealanders to cleanse the Public Service of Klark appointees, such rabid communists, socialists and other such ratbags as she has favoured in handing out jobs for the boys and girls”.
The unmitigated hypocrisy. Astounding. As stupid statements, that beggars belief. So, all you Tories out there, care to counter Red’s outrageous statement made in National’s name? Hmmmmm????
Vote:July 31st, 2007 at 11:10 pm
“I am sure Key and co were motivated by the purest of intentions and acted entirely on principle and that Ms Setchell’s connection (via her partner) to National did not unduly colour its passion on this topic.”
Hahahahahah!
Anyway, I guess this post shows that people like John Key and his minions will keep flogging this horse long after it is dead. And they criticise Labour for bringing up the brethren every now and then!
Vote:August 1st, 2007 at 1:53 am
Dead Dux, I think Redbaiter’s suggestion of “cleansing the public service” is nonsense. There’s no need to do that. As the new Government, National will simply require its policies to be implemented; the implementation will become the new KPI for public servants; and since most of them have never actually had to be accountable to anyone for anything in their entire socialist lives, they will be turfed out come the next performance and salary review…
Vote:August 1st, 2007 at 6:01 am
Charlie Tan
Usual Labour apologist crap – nothing to see here, move on. There are issues are stake here Charlie far more important than the final comeuppance that Panty Slut Boy got for his boorish bullying and dishonesty. It is the wholesale assault that Clark’s government has made on the long cherished notion that the civil service is neutral. When an able manager is appointed to a senior role in a ministry and fully discloses her conflict of interest (a conflict of a magnitude easily managed on multiple occasions in Wellington before) and then is fired due to political interference, the entire framework of how government departments operates is under threat. This whole affair in regard to civil service neutrality has been shabby from all parties involved. Hugh Logan proved himself to be a spineless toady willing to jump to impliment the suggestion of the minister and his political underlings. Rennie from the SSC was NOT doing his job – after ‘investigating’ nothing to see here move along and only AFTER Clark finally makes someone accountable and demands DPB finally tells the truth do we FINALLY find out the real story. This whole episode has been one round after another of ducking, weaving and butt covering by highly paid civil servants from whom the tax payer ought to have expected far better. The message is loud and clear – in Helengrad if you are not Labour or Labour leaning then you will not be promoted to any position within the bureaucracy that does not slavishly support the sisterhood.
This has led to the wholesale neutering of various previously esteemed government departments and agencies. Many departments have spawned a plethera of new advisors and consultants who gaze at each others navels and report the same PC crap to their masters. The NZ Police was once one of the best police forces in the world – now it is involved in shameless politically one sided investigations (Paintergate, Doongate and the Pledge Card, even DBP’s previous assualts on students all “prima face but no case to answer” vs the relentless pursuit of Shane Arden’s tractor on the steps and Nick Smith’s contempt of court cases. Tell us Charlie that if either had been a senior Labour MP that those cases would’ve been prosecuted.
For far too long the left have indulged in shameless realpolitik and people like you and Selma and Sonic turn a blind eye to these egregious excesses because well anything to keep the hated Tories from ever infesting the treasury benches.
Vote:August 1st, 2007 at 6:25 am
This addled Labour Government regime under the free rein of a demented Helen Clark is just one rort after another and I find it deplorable that the kiwi public are not crying for blood from these elected buffoon’s, as control without integrity is dangerous and dreadful.
History will remember Clark’s hateful regime with one word; corruption.
Vote:August 1st, 2007 at 6:39 am
good riddence.
Though as scandel its fairly lame. I know at some level Ministers have politicised staff. But not press secretaries?
Vote:August 1st, 2007 at 6:46 am
Don’t forget that the Saturday editorial in the Dom-Post is generally at least tongue-in-cheek, and at times an absolute piss-take. Saturday’s DB-P editorial was at the latter end of the scale – a good guffaw was had by this reader!
Meantime Charlie Tan must be another who went to the crisis meeting at the Beehive on Thursday night – like Selma, he is following the “hi-jack the blogs at any cost” instruction like the faithful LP troll that he is. It’s not a dead horse yet Charlie, by any stretch of the imagination. Clark needs to tell Parliament at what point she knew DB-P was telling porkies, and why she gave him the rope (and noose-tying instructions!), also what role HER office had in the sacking.
Vote:August 1st, 2007 at 7:31 am
Inventory: What role HER office had in the sacking?
Remember Helen 2′s directive to Parliamentary Services to pay for Helen 1′s pledge card and leaflet out of Helen 1′s Leader’s Funds
Vote:August 1st, 2007 at 7:48 am
Sean, the public service already has heavy layers of accountability. It’s a bit disconcerting how ignorant many people in these threads are in their knowledge and understanding of how their taxpayers’ dollars are spent and what mechanisms are in place to ensure those dollars are put to best use.
And any person who thinks public servants are aligned with Labour or are “socialist” in their political orientation is clearly not a Wellington person. The idea of a left-leaning bureaucracy died decades ago – particularly at senior levels.
Vote:August 1st, 2007 at 7:58 am
The Naitonal Party is not obliged to have confidence in a public service stacked to the brim with Labour Party activists who serve up advice that contain socialist solutions to every problem in society. They will be required to implement policies that do not involve a socialist approach to things and they are required to be loyal to the Government of the day. The resignations from Government servants who cannot do that will be warmly welcomed. In any event the Wellington bureaucracy is over stuffed and needs to be considerably reduced.
Vote:August 1st, 2007 at 8:09 am
DDD do you really believe what you write – because any Wellington person who is not a public servant will tell you with all honesty that Labour lickspittles saturate a feminazi hierarchically structured administration where people tend to be promoted up to their level of incompetence .
The public servant gravy train and Liarbore propaganda machine is in urgent need of a good hard prune !
Vote:August 1st, 2007 at 8:21 am
Frank said “Inventory: What role HER office had in the sacking?
Remember Helen 2’s directive to Parliamentary Services to pay for Helen 1’s pledge card and leaflet out of Helen 1’s Leader’s Funds”
Just to clarify Frank – her office’s role in Ms Setchell’s sacking – there’s plenty of evidence that they knew about Hurring’s phone call(s). If Hurring had been instructed by Dear Leader’s office NOT to call Logan, then went ahead and did it, wouldn’t he have been fired right then and there? That he wasn’t suggests that Dear Leader’s office, at my charitable best CONDONED Hurring’s (and Benson-Pope’s) involvement; taking a darker view, perhaps the PM’s office actually ENCOURAGED it. Given your reference to the Pledge Card, why would we expect otherwise?
Anyway, I couldn’t have been referring to B-P’s sacking, because we ALL know that he resigned eh – yeah, right!!
Vote:August 1st, 2007 at 8:25 am
[quote]It’s a bit disconcerting how ignorant many people in these threads are in their knowledge and understanding of how their taxpayers’ dollars are spent and what mechanisms are in place to ensure those dollars are put to best use.[/quote]
Oh, its all nonsense to me. I find politics and politicians and their hangers on just funny to give a bit of a stir.
I just meant at some level Ministers are all about politics. For example I don’t suppose Heather Simpson will be loyally serving Prime Minister Key in 2009.
What is the difference between the acknowledged politicised staff and those that stay on regardless of party?
Vote:August 1st, 2007 at 9:07 am
You are right DDD it is about time that some sunlight was allowed to shine on the practices and procedures of the”public service” now conveniently renamed the “state service” in order to completely remove confusion from those who foolishly think that the customers of the apparatus of state could conceivably be the public.
Public examination of the “dark arts” of political manipulation and the fiction of impartiality of the service would be an excellent idea.
Questioning the concept that somehow the apparatus of the state is somehow exempt from practicing prudent fiscal and operational management and even more is exempt from accountability or performance measurement in any meaningful way would be something I would absolutely support.
I’m right behing you on that one Dux.
Vote:August 1st, 2007 at 9:38 am
“The idea of a left-leaning bureaucracy died decades ago – particularly at senior levels.”
Joke of the year. leftists are liars. They will propogate lies on the basis of Hitler’s pronouncement, that for propaganda to be accepted it has to be repeated over and over again. Duck sounds like an endless cassette.
Where’s that commie De Bres work again, and how did he get his job? What’s the name of that commie union scumbag running Radio New Zealand? I could look it up and come up with scores of leftists in powerful positions put there by the Klark government. I just don’t have the time right now.
You’re a bigger fool than I thought if you think such lies will wash Duck. (and anyway, you’re probably one of those far leftists who think Klark is right wing. How would you ever judge such an issue objectively??)
Vote:August 1st, 2007 at 10:41 am
IMHO its time we dispensed with the bullshit and adopted the US style and be done with it. All civil servants above a certain grade tender their resignations on a change in government and the incoming government decides whether to accept or reject these.
That way we all know where we stand and avoid the crapola of the kind I have to deal with and so do many others who have contact with senior civil servants. As it is we all do the dance of the desparates trying to avoid the bleeding obvious.
Vote:August 1st, 2007 at 11:33 am
gd
I’m inclined to agree – for a long time I didn’t like the US system but everyone here knows the rules and largely play by them. If you are a senior official in a Federal Agency you are there most likely because the current Adminstration installed you – your party loses the White House and time to dust off your CV.
If the NZ system could’ve stayed at least nominally neutral but I’m afraid Labour have scrambled and omelette that is going to be hard to unscramble.
Vote:August 1st, 2007 at 12:59 pm
KIA Whilst I dont for one moment believe the Nats have always been squeaky clean on neutrality at least in my experience there was a reasonable effort made. But in the past few years the facade has crumbled and is now irreparably broken . Those of us who are involved will now find it very hard to accpet we are not deqaling with a partisan civil service.
Oh by the way Whats happened to that Socialist flunky Hurring What new trough has he been given to gorge himself in.
Vote:August 1st, 2007 at 1:40 pm
gd
Vote:Agreed – Hurring will likely ‘flee’ to the safety as Assistant General Secretary of the Labour Party or a similar role with a Trade Union. Wasn’t he a unionist before working for DPB? I’m sure Leila Hare would hire him.
August 2nd, 2007 at 3:37 pm
# Frank Says:
> Dear Commissioner
>
> Hugh Logan, in the Service of the Crown
> has allegedly used his position to disadvantage
> Madeline Setchell also in the Service of the Crown
>
> You have a statutory responsibility to investigate
> the above complaint of a breach of the Crimes Act
> 1961, where breaches of the Act by those in the
> Service of the Crown are involved.
Speaking of conflicts of interest, we were hoping that the SSC would declare the inherent conflict with Mark Prebble (SSC) investigating Hugh Logan at MfE. They have been good buddies for at least 10 years.
At the very least we hoped that this would be dealt with in the terms of reference for the enquiry.
Vote:August 3rd, 2007 at 11:31 am
Clive Bird: In the eyes of Politicians there is no conflict of interest. Transparency is so transparent that we have civil servants investigating civil servant’s transgressions (In House Inquiries); Police Complaints Authority is Police investigating Police or alternatively (Disciplinary Boards); Parliamentarians transgressions investigated by Parliamentarians(Select Committee of some sort).
All are Servants of the Crown advantaging themselves to the disadvantage of everybody else. The Taito Philip Field Case is historic in that he has been the first to have been charged for breaches of the Crimes Act 1961 as a person in the Service of the Crown.
Allegations under this category of corruption would number over a hundred and only one has seen the light of day? A Police State?
Vote: