A u-turn in 24 hours
August 31st, 2007 at 10:46 am by David FarrarJordan yesterday blogged how the process for the Electoral Finance Bill is all wrong, and I said I agreed with him, and this is why the bill needs to be done properly. In 24 hours Jordan has now changed his position and made a frankly bizarre post accusing me of being both Karl Rove and Robert Muldoon and going on about redistricting in the US etc etc.
I can only assume Jordan has got flak from his hierarchy for his comments, and is now trying to beat a retreat.
The funniest thing is when he accuses National of trying to steal the 2005 general election. He glosses over the fact Labour did actually break the law and overspend by $800,000. And that this Electoral Finance Bill will legalise their illegal over-spending.
Jordan also argues this bill is following normal process, when just yesterday he laments it should have been the subject of public consultation. He argues that because the issue is being debated now on blogs, this makes it all okay. He also says the bill is not a constitutional revolution, when it is exactly that.
He also glosses over the bill doesn’t even crackdown on anonymous donations to parties because his own leader needs her dirty money so badly she pulled that clause out.
But most of all he is fake outraged by the fact I suggested that if Labour get away with gerrymandering the Electoral Act for their narrow partisan interests, future Govts will do the same. He has not a word of condemnation for what his party *actually* is doing, but gets outraged at even a suggestion that future parties might descend to the same low standard.
And just to make things worse, the Government leaked to Radio NZ that it is planning changes to the Bill, so that the Select Committee hearing the bill can then agree not to hear any submissions criticising those aspects of the bill, on the grounds the Government has already agreed to a change in that area. Never mind that what these changes are might not at all satisfy what the public want – they’ll be rammed through probably under urgency just before Christmas.
Related posts:
- 30 hours left to make your submission on the Electoral Finance Bill
- Jordan is right
- Jordan taking the moral high ground
- Dunne on Electoral Finance Bill
August 31st, 2007 at 10:48 am
Time to emigrate to Fiji. It can’t be worse over there.
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 10:52 am
Karl Rove? High praise indeed.
Vote:You sure he’s not trying to make up?
August 31st, 2007 at 11:02 am
You’re kidding me. I had started to think the bill was as dead as a dodo. Looks to me like Labour are gearing up to force it through. Maybe those protests in the streets are what we need to create some visibility.
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 11:02 am
Having read both posts it certainly looks like Jordans masters have given him the red hot poker. It’s a massive reversal.
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 11:07 am
Jordans site wont allow comments on the matter Typical Socialist Leftie Just like his Glorious beloved Heavenly Leader “Ve vill not allow the criticism”
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 11:13 am
WTF! OK, correct me if I’m wrong, but this can’t happen unless a majority of the House agrees to an urgency motions. It’s time for every party except Labour to get their spines out of hock and say publicly, and unambiguously, that they will not support any such attempt to ram through the EFB.
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 11:25 am
Yesterday I referred to Jordan as a worm that turned.
Seems as if he is just a worm. Spineless. He must have received such a reaming from the party yesterday.
Got to be honest, it is friggin hilarious.
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 11:50 am
Again, protests have to be the answer. Peter Dunne, Winston Peters and the greens will suddenly make all sorts of commitments when they can see people in the streets about it. Particularly when those people look very much like their voters. Nice peaceful protests by normal people are what we need. If I wasn’t OS at the moment, I would help…
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 12:24 pm
What this u-turn highlights to me is that Jordan’s blog is merely a mouth piece for the Labour party. Independent thought is critical for a blog.
We all know DPF is affiliated with the National party, but I sincerely hope that the National Party would never use stand over tactics to influence DPF’s blog. And I also hope that DPF would ignore any such influence (a little reassurance would be nice!).
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 12:37 pm
Looks to me as if he’s Jordan’s saying that he wishes New Zealand had more of a participatory democracy, but he is realistic to work within the context of the current framework. Not sure how this contradicts what he said yesterday.
Actually it looks more like a clarification than an incredible “U-Turn”.
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 12:45 pm
This isn’t the first time Jordan has been follish enough to express an opinion before the 9th floor has told him what his opinion actually is.
Silly Jordan, check your memos first to prevent thought crime.
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 12:49 pm
Mike Moore is the only Labour supporter with enough guts to at least stick to his statements. All others appear to roll over at H1’s orders.
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 1:28 pm
Here is an example of the world Jordan inhabits. This is directly taken from his post and contains some of what DPF posted
*************************************************************
If the Government does not stop the bill, and passes (even with amendments) the bill before Christmas, then the Electoral Act will not recover. It will become a partisan prize for whoever wins the election.
And it doesn’t need to be that way. If a proper process was set up for public debate, with well thought out options, I think one could gain a wide degree of consensus. But you CAN NOT allow this bill to proceed in the absence of the public debate. Especially when the Electoral Act is being massively extended to not just regulate parties and candidates, but every New Zealander. How can you pass a law regulating every New Zealander, when you have not even had their input into why such a law is needed, if it is?
This is Muldoonism in real life. Or perhaps more likely, Karl-Rove-ism.
Let me elaborate. A key National Party strategist through five National Party leaders, is saying that if National wins the election, the Electoral Act “will become a partisan prize”.
*************************************************************
DPF wrote that the bill will be a partisan prize for WHOEVER WINS THE ELECTION,
Jordan thinks it will only be a partisan prize if NATIONAL WIN.
wtf????
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 1:33 pm
I get the feeling Jordan slipped over the border and brought up large on space cookies. Totally bizarre.
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 1:36 pm
All this massive “Flip Flop” illustrates is the sad state of affairs this country is in.
The tragedy of the situation is that the Bill is before the “Injustice” and Electoral Select Committee of what must now be perceived as a Third World Nation.
The whole present process is criminal. I say criminal, unreservedly, because the Bill with its present iniquitous provisions, by reason of its support from Members of Parliament “persons in the Service of Her Majesty in right of New Zealand”, which includes the Police, now lies before the Select Committee….
Members of this Select Committee:
• are Servants of the Crown.
• Some of them voted for The Appropriation (Parliamentary Expenditure Validation) Act. (Validated unlawful expenditure (including alleged theft of which they had full knowledge)
• The Electoral Finance Bill is an attempt to manipulate the Electoral Act to the advantage of some Members of Parliament to the disadvantage of the voting public. (Breach of the Crimes Act?)
• Some Members of this Committee have a distinct conflict of interest and as such should declare that interest, and withdraw from the session of this Select Committee when this “flawed” Bill is discussed.
• Sections of the Crimes Act 1961 are applicable only to Members of Parliament.
“flawed” because it has been introduced for all the wrong reasons. Though not named, the Exclusive Brethern were held to be the reason for the Bill, though their actions were not illegal. By pointing the finger at the EB the real nature of the Bill was supposed to escape detection?
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 1:41 pm
Can we refer to you as “turd blossom” now David?
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 2:02 pm
Jordan will argue black is white if that suits Labour, and that’s close to what he does in that article.
His National/Exclusive Brethren idea is doubly wrong – not only did that minor scandal cost National votes and possibly the last election, Labour is far more guilty of breaching the rules than is National.
Such breathtaking inanity. He is transparently a walking billboard for Labour who operates in spite of reason. Why does anyone take any notice?
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 3:01 pm
Come on folks, you’ve got to give Jordan credit for being an accurate barometer of the mood within the Labour Party – and it looks like the forecast is stormy, with hysterical gusts of gale-force wind randomly coming from all directions.
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 3:20 pm
Note too the positioning of DPF as “A key National Party strategist through five National Party leaders” and “an important National Party strategist and advisor”.
Lock away your rubbish bins David, I smell a smear campaign or email from an ex Labour MP and party position holder
Oh this from the NBR last year as a reminder of another U turn:
“Miss Clark told the House confidence could not be maintained in the integrity of the electoral process when a party could accept “cash for policy” arrangements by keeping the identity of large corporate donors anonymous
“The Government was busy on campaign law reform to stop National “rorting” elections through covert funding, she said, and would be taking proposals to other parties for clamping down on anonymous donations.”
And this from two weeks ago:
“Clark said the idea behind the bill was to restrict third party advertising, such as the Exclusive Brethren’s anti-government, anti-Green campaign at the last election. “
[DPF: Yes I get more important every day. Today I am Karl Rove and Muldoon and a key strategist to five Leaders. Tomorrow I will be revealed to be Murray McCully]
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Has Jordan had the broom stick injection I hear this is now the preferred method of punishment on the 9th floor.
And especially naughty boys get a double dose
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 4:41 pm
PaulL said:
This is something I touched on in acomment yesterday to which gd responded:
I’d be there if I could be gd, but there’s the small matter of a few thousand miles and the fact they’d stop me leaving the country again because they’ve suddenly decided I left some unpaid parking tickets behind me when I left. Odd that. Perhaps I shouldn’t use my own name when making comments here and elsewhere.
Anyway, CraigM made the excellent suggestion:
Well I’d never preach civil disobedience of course, but the idea of a mass protest outside Parliament is something that must happen. As PaulL says above, the smaller parties – whose agreement to urgency will be required – need to have it made crystal clear that if they support the erosion of democracy, they’re toast. Alas like Paul I too am overseas.
Surely someone can take up the fallen flag and lead the charge? gd? I’d certainly be beside you in spirit. All it’d take is an advertisement here and there and a bit of stirring up of the media (which I’d be happy to advise upon).
Perhaps this blog can rise above the petty insults about people’s mums and the re-hashing of the 90s and actually do something constructive. We have a week…
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 5:15 pm
Sounds like this Jordan guy has sold his soul to the devil, has the man no pride, what a gutless wonder. He should get those blisters on his tongue seen to before they turn septic.
Vote:I agree with Rex, this bill is a step to far. I would be more then happy to go to Wellington to tell these fascists what I think of them shitting all over our democracy. To many good Kiwi’s have died fighting for our freedom and the for our right to free speech, we have no right to lie down and take it up the arse. We owe those that gave up their lives atleast that much.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:29 pm
What a crackup post by Jordan. DPF, it’s all you, man. Now we know why Labour’s lagging in the polls. National’s going to do what they like and justify it by linking to kiwiblog posts.
I do kind of agree that it’s not like the process that the government is following to bring these changes in is unprecedented. But they’re crap changes with extremely weak justification, and that is more than enough reason why they shouldn’t happen.
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 5:37 pm
Rex Widerstrom: “We have a week.”
We have a weak Opposition and a gutless lot of New Zealanders. Just the right climate for the Labour led Government to flourish.
Kiwiblog provides a source for constructive objectives, but this is undermined by the efforts of a few fanatical, successful Fifth Columnists who divert attention from the real issues
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 5:53 pm
Helen Clark to Jordan – “Jordan next time you want to express an opinion, I’ll give you one”.
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 5:57 pm
I read with amazment that Jordon seemed to have swallowed a rational pill. Not so amazed today.
The leopard is back
T
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Bloody hilarious!
Vote:Jordan Carter has just placed loyalty to the Party over any last vestige of personal integrity. With such an obvious willingness to humiliate himself in the interests of the Party, I forsee a long and illustrious career in the Labour Party for Jordan.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:35 pm
“the fact Labour did actually break the law and overspend”
How did Nationals interpretation of the GST law go again? Sure they didn’t break the law they just screwed over people so that they couldn’t break the law.
but we’d hate to nit pick now wouldn’t we.
And could someone please enlighten me why we are subject to all 3 volumes of War and Peace above?
Vote:August 31st, 2007 at 7:46 pm
That is disgusting Paul. National made a mistake. They offered to repay the money. They attempted to pass a bill that would allow them to correct their mistake.
You see this as equivalent to a party that knowingly breached spending limits. Acquiesced to repaying it after copping a lot of flak from the country. And then passed a bill to legalize their activity, rather than attempting to correct their mistake.
I’ve seen some partisan bullcrap, but that is honestly the most dishonest comparison I’ve seen in a long time.
Vote:September 1st, 2007 at 1:32 am
And could someone please enlighten me why we are subject to all 3 volumes of War and Peace above?
Very good. I liked that one.
Vote:September 1st, 2007 at 3:36 am
Pascal,
Even worse. A party that wants to be govt can’t even stop itself from making fundamental mistakes. If I cock up with my tax bill like that I pay massive fines or go to jail. They just try to change the law.
Don’t tell me they didn’t know what they were doing. Next time I’m caught with a small amount of dope and don’t like the outcome I might too try to change the law.
And do not tell me they didn’t know, they bloody well did and if they didn’t they surely are not fit to run this country that is for sure.
Not partisan, I don’t vote for for insipid centralists, they all have fence stain on their arses.
Vote:September 1st, 2007 at 7:32 am
Paul – the only party which did change the law to make its illegal acts legal was Labour.
Vote:September 1st, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Paul, both you and Jordan seem to be showing the same detachment from reality that is why you’re on the verge of a hiding in the next election which is really quite a shame since I’d like to at least have the option of voting for a credible Labour party.
Labour really needs to take the axe to it’s strategy department.
Vote: