The nature of the attacks on Key
Lest anyone think I am saying that only Labour attacks MPs from other parties, on non parliamentary issues, let me be clear that of course most parties do this from time to time.
But a significant difference with what happened last week, is the lack of any “aggrieved parties”. I’ll explain what I mean.
Take David Benson-Pope and tennis balls. Neither National nor ACT got their staff to trawl through DBP’s background, interview former students and try and actively dig up dirt on him. What happened is a couple of his former students approached MPs after they thought he was being hypocritical on bullying. Sure the MPs then raised the issue in Parliament, but it was after being approached. And then the real reason it became such a huge issue was DBP denied it all and literally a dozen people came forward to contradict what he said.
Or take the case of David Parker. Parker incidentally resigned before there was even a single question time on his actions. Investigate ran their story – and it was based on there being a very aggrieved party who came forward.
Dover Samuels was sacked from Cabinet when a relative alleged inappropriate behaviour in the past. His corridor urinating antics also became an issue because the guy he pissed on, told people and it made the media.
So in all these cases the issues originated with a disgruntled person who felt the MP had behaved inappropriately. Certainly MPs made decisions as to whether or not they would follow the issue up, and ask questions on it (and that judgement has not always been sound) but these were scandals that came to MPs, rather than the MPs went out digging dirt, trying specifically to invent a scandal.
The attacks on Key have been missing this previously obligatory factor. There is no leaky home owner saying they hold Key responsible for their leaky home. There is no former Equiticorp employee alleging Key devised the H Fee and left him to take the blame for it. The only person writing letters about where Key lived in 2002 is Labour President Mike Williams.
What we apparently have is the Labour Party Cabinet actively going out there and trying to dig up dirt on John Key. They are no passive recipients of allegations from members of the public. They are the manufacturers, the wholesalers and the retailers in this supply chain.
Now that is something we have not had before. It is quite unprecedented.
So when Richard Long writes in the Dom Post:
This desperation for any scrap of information, any document that can be flourished against him, seems to put into context the burglary of Mr Key’s home while he was on a well-publicised overseas holiday, and the mysterious raids on his home garbage bins, detected by neighbours on several occasions. These were not homeless people, looking for discarded Parnell food portions. They were well-dressed operatives who took off swiftly when their activities were detected.
It does make you wonder. Now Long himself goes on to say he thinks Clark would have nothing to do with this, but certainly Labour would not refuse to use the fruits of such activities as they did with the Brash e-mails. And again you wonder how exactly is Labour trying to dig up dirt, now it has obviously decided to do so. It it merely doing Google searches? I suspect not.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:30 am
That is a pretty serious insinuation there David.
Are you seriously suggesting that the Government arranged a break-in of the leader of the oppositions home?
August 29th, 2007 at 10:33 am
I would not put it past Williams to hire Private investigators to look for dirt on John Key. Labour will use very dirty and corrupt tactic in the book in their desperation to retain power.
Quite simply they are corrupt and the country has had enough. They funny thing is that they have fired the big guns which were in reality only pea-shooters. If they had anything decent they would have used it.
The only nuclear button left to push is the big red button marked “self destruct” – I am waiting.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:46 am
Yes, of course, Richard Long the man who was paid to spin some of the most cynical and unfounded lines for the National party during the last election. How credible.
Who are you going to cite on Labour’s failings next DPF? Ghengis Khan? Insolent Prick? Trevor Louden? Oh, hold on you’ve already used Louden as a source and he’s used you and, come to think of it, Long’s used your analysis too. Back in boarding school we used to call that a “circle-jerk”…
August 29th, 2007 at 10:51 am
And you’re honestly trying to tell me Investigate gets none of its information from the National Party? Come on Farrar, as a National Party insider you should know better than that!
[DPF: I don't know of anyone in National who deals with Investigate. In fact most people expect that when in Govt they will face the same sort of stories from Investigate. But anyway Tane you are making the allegation maybe you could provide proof]
August 29th, 2007 at 10:57 am
Hey Tane, heres an idea – prove it.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:57 am
Spot on DPF, therein lies the difference – and there are plenty of other examples of the sort of “dirt” Clark accuses others of firing in the past, and in doing so making Labour’s present acts legitimate, that only came to the attention of MPs because a member of the public raised it, not the other way around.
Exactly who was looking in Key’s rubbish bins, and breaking into Dianne Foreman’s apartment, needs to be exposed. I’m sure someone in Labour knows. But who is investigating it? Nicky Hagar is famously a-political – perhaps it’ll be the subject of his next blockbuster.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:59 am
Hey Bevan, here’s an idea – learn how to punctuate. D’ya know what we used to call Bevans in Australia?
August 29th, 2007 at 11:01 am
Wow, and a stunning come back from Robinson.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:01 am
Like Long I don’t think the Government is breaking in no. But the desperation of their tactics suggests they would not mind using info from any such break in.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:09 am
David, you are being far too kind. If I recall correctly, Richard Long indicated he did not think “Helen Clark” had anything to do with it. That is a far cry from “Labour” not having a hand in a very dubious and nasty set of events which more and more seem to require close scrutiny.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:10 am
Bevan. Sarcasm’s the lowest form of humour. Good on you for stepping up your game.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:14 am
Sonic: How does a statement of facts become an insinuation?
August 29th, 2007 at 11:18 am
Oh thats easy Frank, in sonics mind:
Labour = Love, peace and dancing bunnys.
National = Baby eating monsters.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:18 am
“[DPF: I don’t know of anyone in National who deals with Investigate"
Which magazine did John Key and Bill English give their first exclusive interview too after winning the leadership?
"How does a statement of facts become an insinuation?"
Let me show you.
Frank was the name of a well known serial killer in Mexico, of course the Frank that posts here may have nothing to do with that, but I doubt it.
[DPF: Letting a media outlet interview you is not the same as working with them on a story. But you know that. I am interviewed by many different media outlets but that doesn't mean I am working with them on a story]
August 29th, 2007 at 11:20 am
Wow, Robinson. I haven’t been compared to Genghis Khan before. Although I should disclose that one of my girlfriends is part-Tartar.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:22 am
Sonic – If you read it carefully, he’s clearly not insinuating or suggesting that the Government arranged a break-in of the leader of the oppositions home. In fact, he’s suggesting they’d happily use any information that such a break-in might generate no matter how irrelevant.
Oh, I now see DPF has already responded. I guess I’m wasting pixels just like you.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:25 am
Which part IP?
August 29th, 2007 at 11:27 am
Nothing will stick to Helen ‘madam teflon’ Clark.
There could well be lackeys digging dirt by unethical or even illegal means, but we can be sure that plausible deniability will exist at multiple levels up through the Labour hierarchy.
Best line from the movie Sliding Doors: “…you are a morality free zone.”. That label fits pretty well for plenty of politicians, but particularly for our corrupt Labour government.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:30 am
IP – I know you don’t have a girlfriend and I’ve heard you took your mum to the school ball so stop trying to talk yourself up (frankly, we’re all a little embarrassed by it)
August 29th, 2007 at 11:32 am
Gracious. How old are you, Robinson? Twelve?
August 29th, 2007 at 11:35 am
“Letting a media outlet interview you is not the same as working with them on a story”
David are you honestly saying that interview was not a public sign of approval of investigate and its methods?
It’s prety clear what Investigate’s agenda is. It might not ber a fornal relationship but I think I know where a National party staffer would send those tips.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:35 am
Being a bit unkind to most 12-year olds there IP
August 29th, 2007 at 11:36 am
Sonic, sonic, sonic. Tired of your threadjacking. And have you stopped beating your wife yet?
August 29th, 2007 at 11:39 am
Yeah, jeez prick you busted me, I’m twelve – that’s why I like to boast about my chicks on a blog thread. Hey, no, wait a minute that’s you.
By the way using “Gracious” as an exclamation doesn’t make you look grown up – just like an earnest fat kid trying to get onside with his elderly Aunt.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:40 am
Sonic obviously doesn’t like Investigate and its “methods” – eg investigation. I can only guess its because they are not sycophantic to the Labour party.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:47 am
Sonic
Suppose Shine TV interviews Tim Barnett – does that suddenly mean he’s a rabid right Born Again Christian? Not likely. Tim Barnett is comfortable enough in his own beliefs and ideology to be be interviewed by a media organisation that undoubtedly is morally opposed to his lifestyle and realise that his gay constituency will think no less of him. What is different then with the Key/English Investigate interview – one of numerous that the pair gave to any and all media comers. You seem to be insinuating that David is claiming that Clark/Labour were behind the Parnell home burglary – a slightly paranoid long bow to drawn and then you turn around and draw a similar long bow on the Key/English Investigate interview.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:49 am
Sonic said “Which magazine did John Key and Bill English give their first exclusive interview too after winning the leadership?”
My reply, in the form of a question “Which magazine was first to ask John Key and Bill English for an exclusive interview? Don’t allow your natural bias to blur things Sonic. And did you read it?
August 29th, 2007 at 11:52 am
“Which magazine did John Key and Bill English give their first exclusive interview too after winning the leadership?”
Erm, it’s not a magazine, but first interview went to Scoop.http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0611/S00438.html
Granting an interview in July 2007, eight months after Key won the leadership does not imply a special relationship.
Also, I assume that it was Wishart that initiated it, not the National Party.
I suppose John Tamihere’s exclusive interview with Wishart is conclusive proof of secret conspiratorial links between the Labour party and Investigate also?
That weasely little man is plotting with everyone!
August 29th, 2007 at 11:55 am
And I for one would hardly class Scoop.co.nz as a rabid right wing news source.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:56 am
Robinson, either grow up and discuss the topic, or kindly piss off and let the grown ups talk.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:57 am
KIA – your point is 100% valid…. but our friendly scots troll is managing to shift the focus of discussion into defence/attack of an media organisation which is not relevantly connected to the story in question.
the long bow you mention knows no limits when it comes to deflecting any potentially damaging attention away from Labour.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:57 am
Sonic, Robinson, Tane … why don’t you have the courage of your convictions and post under your real names or may we assume you are all Beehive staffers?
August 29th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
The facts are these.
Someone is carrying out intelligence gathering on National. Rubbish bins are being searched, emails have been stolen.
The obvious beneficiaries are those who oppose national. That would be Labour. It is not illogical to assume that those gathering this intelligence are sympathetic to Labour but it is a long stretch to assume Labour is working with these parties.
In much the same way Investigate magazine is sympathetic to National, but it would be a stretch to assume National is working with Ian Wishart. Isn’t that right Sonic?
Wouldn’t Labour’s use of such intelligence be a tacit approval of these methods used to gather it Sonic?
August 29th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
Bevan, I get bored with all this grown-up talk. Particularly when it’s so misinformed. Having said that, isn’t the link between the Nats and Investigate through the Brethren’s ownership of both? But seriously I’d be surprised if the National party was stupid enough to have any traceable links between them and Investigate and having been on the fringes of a few Investigate stories myself I would say they are not connected. Wishart may be a loony but he’s too egotistical to be used as a tool by any party and the Tories have more sense than to deal with a loose cannon (especially after the Brethren fiasco.) They like their political allies stable and on-message. Eh, DPF?
August 29th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
Yo it’s Miller time! Sorry, couldn’t help myself Ross. I can’t post under my real name ‘cos my mum will find out I’ve been wagging school.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Sonic: Your reply to my simple question would qualify you for a high ranking position in any future Labour caucus. Quite frankly you out rank the present incumbents already.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Helmet I clearly said “which magazine”
“Wouldn’t Labour’s use of such intelligence be a tacit approval of these methods used to gather it Sonic?”
Any evidence they have used it?
I wonder, is this some pre-emptive strike at something that is about to come to light?
August 29th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Oh God… the trolls have been breeding. Same verbal DNA, same tactics, same scripted content.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
Oh, nicely done, Sonic. Again you come up with baseless innuendo about the same kind of “neutron bomb” that Mike Williams, Pete Hodgson, and the PM’s press secretaries have been boasting about for the last week.
Curiously, the PM claims there’s no “strategy” to attack John Key, yet you coe up with these persistent claims.
Note how Mark Burton, Clayton Cosgrove and Pete Hodgson announce a flurry of public spending in their porfolios, the very week that every political commentator hammers them for mud-flinging instead of working in their portfolios.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
In many ways it’s a bit frustrating. While I utterly despise the current administration, I have to admit they have (until recently that is) handled things brilliantly in a political sense.
We have concrete evidence that labour has been combing through every bit of documentation they can find, although none too thoroughly as the letter from the Clerk seemed to take them by surprise. A conspiracy theorist might say that overlooking that letter indicates a stronger emphasis on – shall we say – less legitimate research techniques.
But of course we simply don’t know, nor are we likely to ever find out. Clark is far too shrewd to allow evidence like that out into the public.
I do have nagging doubts however. The total lack of action from the police in investigating the stolen Brash emails, the break in of his lovers appartment etc. It would certainly seem very likely that this came from some level of Labour, or at least that they were aware it was going to happen.
It’s hard to imagine a meglomaniac like Clark not knowing anything about it. But unless the Police pull finger we’ll never know.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Yes I noticed the same thing. I initially wondered if it was a beginning of the lollynomics parade, just getting warmed up with a few targeted vote-buying freebies. But the sling-mud towards the opposition, and then sling-cash towards the voters connection is well visible.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Any evidence they have used it?
How many references has Helen Clark made to “The Hollow Men” which was made possible by stolen emails.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
“the PM claims there’s no “strategy” to attack John Key, yet you coe up with these persistent claims.”
I’m just me IP, I’m not connected to anyone, but when people who are connected (like Mr F) start musing that documents have been stolen from Mr Key’s office, it is tempting to wonder if some story is about to break.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Helmet I clearly said “which magazine”
I am putting your argument in perspective.
Key, English and others grant dozens and dozens of exclusive interviews to other media outlets for months, but in your mind the one that counts is an interview (a very run of the mill one no less) eight months later with a dodgy magazine.
Yes Wishart is sleazy. The fact that he interviewed Key and English does not mean they are in cahoots.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
“Key, English and others grant dozens and dozens of exclusive interviews to other media outlets for months”
And which magazine got the first exclusive and a nice pic of them both on the cover?
Investigate.
Not the Listener or North and South, no a tiny magazine with a circulation of what, 7000?
Why do you think that was?
August 29th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
I will inevitably be labelled as a conspiracy theorist but the circumstantial evidence is certainly mounting.
H1 probably has only got as close as making it known that “something needs to be done about Key and I don’t want to know the detail”
Who was it that mused “who will rid me of this troublesome priest?”
Plausible deniability has long and practised roots in the darker side of politics.
Of course sonic et al would do well to be cautious about what they defend as I would not be surprised to find that there are records that detail the use of government assets in the gathering of “intelligence” on those who the present controllers of the levers of power consider to be any threat at all to their continued ability to run this country. These will be revealed if there is a change of Government which is a fair indicator of the stakes in this particular battle for public opinion.
If this happens of course the anonymous ones will quietly pack their bags and steal away into the night.
I would opine that Labour literally have everything to lose in the next 12 months so things will not get better.
I just hope there are not any convenient “accidents” or gas main explosions between now and the elections.
In some parts of the world, such threats are made to go away or vanish altogether but here it is character assassination, public ridicule and the use of the sedition legislation that have been the main weapons. Either way it is not NZ the way I want it to be.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Dunno – perhaps because Listener and North and South are thinly-disguised socialists rags? But that’s not important right now.
So, does Labour have a deliberate campaign to use private investigators and other low-life’s to dig dirt on John Key? Who authorised the searching of rubbish bins and an apartment break in? And is sonic still beating his wife? These are all deeply vexing questions…
August 29th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
Sonic seems to be suffering from memory lapse, or being a hypocrite.
From earlier in the thread:
“That is a pretty serious insinuation there David.”
To this:
“Not the Listener or North and South, no a tiny magazine with a circulation of what, 7000?
Why do you think that was?”
Seems that insinuation is ok as long as it is aimed away from the government, not towards it.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Sonic said “And which magazine got the first exclusive and a nice pic of them both on the cover?
Investigate.
Not the Listener or North and South, no a tiny magazine with a circulation of what, 7000?
Why do you think that was?”
Ah, um, let me guess…..maybe the editor asked for an interview.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Sonic:
I wonder why it is that Helen Clark and Winston Peters have not given a joint interview to the Listener on New Zealand foreign policy? Or why Helen Clark and Michael Cullen haven’t given a joint interview to Metro yet, despite being in office for eight years? Or why Helen Clark and Jim Anderton haven’t given a joint interview to Salient?
These are very spooky questions.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
The game appears to be on. See Audrey Young’s latest piece put up on The Herald half an hour ago.
Sonic, RN, Tane, TomS & Co, you’d better get yourself ringside seats at the wake.
What will it take for a successful vote of no confidence?
August 29th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Sonic.
Stop insinuating. We all know why YOU think that was.
The question is why did north and south or listener not put them on the front?
The answer is EDITORIAL DECISIONS.
Investigate is a right wing, politcal magazine. Of course they are going to put them on the cover. No suprise there.
North and South and the Listener have a wider purview. The Listener has put Helen Clark on it’s cover 3 times in the past year, once with John Key no less. This was the only time Key has appeared on the cover. I don’t see this as a vast lefty conspiracy.
Sonic. You seem to exhibit a paranoia about these things. Take a breath dude.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
Anyway, Key has given several (exclusive) interviews to several magazines, the Listener, Salient, Remix, to name a few, before the Investigate story. English has also.
Perhaps it is the fact that they gave the interview together, not seperately that is the crucial issue here?
And somehow this circumstance proves a shadowy link between Wishart and National? Don’t be silly, you can do better than this.
“And which magazine got the first exclusive and a nice pic of them both on the cover?”
Lets rephrase that so it is accurate.
Which magazine *put* a nice pic of them on the cover?
Unless you’re suggesting National made him do it?
August 29th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
wow what a complete change of subject by the guy that works for Labour.
its not a good thing if people are going through keys garbage – i wouldnt want either side doing that!!!
the break in – wouldnt surprise me, its not as if the police would actually press charges!!!
it is fun to watch labour get more and more desperate
almost as much fun as it has been watching cullen age so horrendiously!
i do like how the left think – if their party does something wrong, they draw some weird ass parallel to something a right wing party once did, no matter how obscure. by doing this they somehow, in their little heads, justify whatever moral/ethical/legal code labour has broken.
where as a right wing party will deal with the problem and take responsibility. but then – when has a leftist govt ever cared about responsibility??
Sonic – you are good for a laugh. i like having you here, it is a constant reminder to us all how the left think! and how they will never see reason – no matter what!!!
August 29th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
personal plausibility
did you know clark has written a dictionary of bullshit?
here’s some definitions
” I don’t know anything about that” = I have conveniently forgotten to remember anything about that”
I know nothing about that= I know nothing that I intend to reveal to you about that
I do not remember that -= I have chosen not to recall that particular incident as it was rather nasty
I have never, will never stoop to personal attacks on a national leader = I get my lapdogs to do it for me apart from when I called Brash corrosive and cancerous – oh and that time when….
Field is exonerated = unless someone somewhere finds something out like that nasty little Wishart chap and then I’ll have his balls for garters..
August 29th, 2007 at 1:25 pm
Stop feeding the trolls. Their defensive strategy is to manufacture tenuous or completely fictitious connections between topics, push us across the bridge and thereby re-focus us all on something that is miles always from the thread topic. The more potentially damaging the thread topic is to Labour the more this technique will be used. Sonic is A+ at this game.
So, does Labour have a deliberate campaign to use private investigators and other low-life’s to dig dirt on John Key? Who authorised the searching of rubbish bins and an apartment break in? And is sonic still beating his wife? These are all deeply vexing questions…
August 29th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
ive decided to employ a helen clark strategy when dealing with anyone in business.
if something goes wrong and helen gets busted she just “laughs it off”
so thats might new policy.
“Hey Dime, you cost the company 30 grand with a bad decision”
Dime – “hahaha thats silly”
as with the fuhrer, i expect my “laughing it off” to be the end of the subject forever.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
To all Socialist supporters
For 9 years now you have been telling us the the PM is the best political manager the world has ever seen. That she is in total control of her party and the Government.
Now you expect us to believe that she know nothing of the dirty tricks.
Come on Dont treat us with the same arrogance and contempt that your arsehole bastard political mates do. They might think they can fool the Right thinking citizens but I would hope you lot would have enough brain matter between your ears to know different.
She knows whats going on because as always she makes the bullets for her lackeys to fire.
And if you say she doesnt then you have destroyed your own myth because rather than being the hard working and competent PM by definition she is out of touch with her own Cabinet and therefore must be deemed incapable of carrying out her duties.
Some come on Which on of the 2 is it. Your call.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
GD – your post bought a tear to my eye
August 29th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Perhaps sonic and gang would like to explain what Mike Moore was talking about when he described the tizard as dear leaders CONSORT?
August 29th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
she has also written
10 rules for dealing with anyone in business
1 laugh off anything you can’t defend
2 deny everything until the shit hits the fan
3 get lots of dirt on your competitors – literally – then get others to use it while you protest ignorance
4 if you’re a woman dress like a man and people will take you seriously
5 avoid accountability at all costs
6 use the mushroom style of management – feed em shit & keep em in the dark
7 lie lie lie and lie again
8 with any major issue – don’t address it – find an interesting distraction
9 keep your employees dependent on you at all costs
10 don’t give your clients any information at all – certainly no-one with any power to get you re-appointed
August 29th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
“For 9 years now you have been telling us the the PM is the best political manager the world has ever seen”
Got a quote from anyone saying that?
“Perhaps sonic and gang would like to explain what Mike Moore was talking about ”
Its usual in these situations to ask Mr Moore, how the bloody hell would I know?
August 29th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
virginblogger: You certainly have sussed her out. She could be in line with the Book of the Year Award.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
unrelated questions to anyone who cares to answer:
Would the employment of Private Investigators to gather information in an attempt to compromise one’s political opposition be valid use of taxpayer’s funds via either the Office of the PM or the Leader’s Fund?
During the “Big Whip Round”, how much cash didn’t make it as far as the LP bank account, was never receipted and will never be declared as donations?
Do PI’s accept cash?
August 29th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
Having read Mike Moores comment IMHO this may be the beginning of the end for Dearly beloved Leader Dont under estimate the network old Mike still has. His piece could be seen as a stalking horse to sow the seeds of discontent and give hope to those still deciding whether to join the revolution.
Again IMHO if the Socialists dont recover to at least 40 points in the next few months then there is an even bet that the number crunchers will start their work A new leader will want at least 2008 to work on a 4th term.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
So sonic you now deny ever saying the PM was a good political manager Why even she appeared on national television to say so I know because I watched her with my very own eyes.
Sorry old chum You gotta do better than the old “I never said that” trick
August 29th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
the brethren the brethren the brethren the brethren the brethren
sorry, im from labour – thats all we got
August 29th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
From the Oxford Dictionary Consort Noun A wife husband or companion especially the spouse of a monarch..
I will leave it to you (cough) to work out which one Mike was referring to.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
yeah Frank
think she could win it – will hopefully be the only thing she’ll win next year. Irony is if she was in business her shareholders would have demanded results
August 29th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
looks like Goff is getting ready to topple the fuhrer…
if he does – what will he change in labour? think there will be a big shift in policy? or just hope that the honeymoon period gets him up in the polls?
August 29th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Nah. She’ll just sign someone elses and call it her own.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
gd said:
From the Oxford Dictionary Consort Noun A wife husband or companion especially the spouse of a monarch..
I will leave it to you (cough) to work out which one Mike was referring to.
Bit confusing isn’t it perhaps MM knows something we don’t.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
KrazyKiwi.
Seems i have missed some news lately.
You accuse Sonic of “Beating his Wife” Can you substanciate that allegation, if so would you like to reference it.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Phil Geoff, endorsed by Matthw Hooton on Sunday and Audrey Young today.
Poor sod, he is toast already.
GD you said ““For 9 years now you have been telling us the the PM is the best political manager the world has ever seen”
I asked you for evidence anyone had ever said that, you retort. “now deny ever saying the PM was a good political manager”
Which is rather a different thing.
I’m pretty good at Golf, but I would never claim to be the best the world has ever seen GD.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
John, i’m just trying to illustrate that unsubstantiated allegations stated often enough start to take on ‘fact like’ status. Sonic does this regularly. The wife comment if just a bit of his/their own medicine.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
John, best just to ignore Krazy K when he does stuff like that. There is no harm done (as I was saying to the wife when I drove her to hospital this morning)
August 29th, 2007 at 2:36 pm
virginblogger : “if she was in business her shareholders would have demanded results.”
if she was in business she would have been suspended from dealing, by the Stock Exchange years ago.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Did sonic deny those allegations?
And when are sonic and co going to explain the consort comment from a former leader of their party?
August 29th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
So sonic old bean are you agreeing with me that Dearly Beloved leader has never been a good political manager Glad to see that you have at last seen the light of day.
Mikes piece is political code for ‘the wagons are circling”
August 29th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
Reg If we exclude the first 2 of the Oxford and then import the fact that Dearly Beloved Leader is an avowed republican I think some may just deduce Mikes inference.
But of course I couldnt possibly comment
August 29th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
“And when are sonic and co going to explain the consort comment from a former leader of their party?”
1. Not my party
2. When are you going to explain what my mate Stevie just said about chocolate?
Oh thats right, I’d better ask him cos how would you know?
August 29th, 2007 at 3:01 pm
The action of labour and their lapdog supporters on this blog ,are mind bogling, The desperation to cling on to power reminds me of mugabe and his cronnies ,bashing the opposition(here we throw lias and false truths). Does sonic wear a cap with mrs davis face on it,you know the gross airbrushed disgusting false effort, ,like labours policies. im saying as it is , thats why they are crashing and burning PS infighting is breaking out in labours ranks, Moore ,says it as it is, (helens a bitch)
August 29th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
gd
Collins English Dictionary throws some more light on the “consort” question.
Perhaps MM had the verb in mind when using the noun.
consort: vb. to keep company (with undesirable people); associate.
…or maybe he was being rude.
2.consort: n a ship sailing in company with another.
But I think the most likely explanation is that Mike Moore meant what we all think he meant, but up to now only suspected.
But of course I wouldn’t be in a position to comment either
August 29th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Helen Clark may not be up close but only so she can have plausible deniability. She could shut this down if she wanted to especially the dirt campaign that seems to mainline right back to Mike Williams. The funny thing is Trevor Mallard while trying to dig up dirt on other people’s marriages forgot about his own which lies in ruins. The irony of that may well permanently damage Mallard and a good thing too.
August 29th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
sonic:”I’m pretty good at Golf”
Do you observe the Rules of this Ancient Sport when recording your score? Adding the number of air shots – accidentally moving the ball – treading on your opponents ball in the rough – dropping the ball nearer the hole – grounding your club in a bunker – etcetera? Known as a burglar?
August 29th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
david
The “turbulent priest” you refer to was Thomas a Becket who was a thorn in the side of king Henry II – the king’s exasperated comment soon led to the said priest’s murder at the hands of four of the king’s knights in December 1170.
Vis a vis Mike Moore’s evisceration of Clark – if you live by the sword then you die by the sword. Lets just say that her coup in 1993 may be coming back to haunt her. Goff has long been from the centre-right faction of Labour and for many years Goff and Moore have remained friends and in reasonably regular contact. You can connect the dots
August 29th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Was Mike Moore at Phil Goff’s BBQ at the weekend? Maybe Phil and Michael Bassett have shared the occasional steak or kebab as well, if the latter’s anti-Clark rhetoric is anything to go by.
August 29th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Can someone please tell me of there is a similar blog site to this but leaning to the left?
This one clearly attracts a large rightish group. Is there one going the other way?
I’d love to know so I can go on there and ‘exchange views’ with them.
(I hate the terms right and left. Clark is virtually right wing, like Chavez. Muldoon was left. In fact I think if you headed off to the right you would eventually come back over the horizon from the left, completing a large squircle)
August 29th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
What goes around comes around. When it hits, it is going to hurt.
I think the comments from MM are a signal that it is ok to attack now, please help yourself to a piece of the PM’s flesh (aarggh, there’s a sickening thought)
MM has been so loyal to the party and so quiet since his “departure” that his comments must have relevance in regards to timing. He is far to savvy to just wake up one day and say, ah hell I’ll think I’ll bag the PM today.
No, it is part of a plan. And one I will enjoy seeing played out.
August 29th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
KIA Right on As I said above if the Socialists cant get back above 40 points in the next 3 months and the Nats stay at 50 those back benchers are going to start getting twitchy and Flick Offs bag men woman persons will be on the trail.
Having said that Divine Heavenly Beloved leader will no doubt have a backstop in place to allow her to gracefully resign in order to take the unexpected international prestige posting that just happened to become avialable.
By bet is that she wont go into 08 looking down the barrel of a defeat.
August 29th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
VTO……….there are heaps. See the column down the right hand side of kiwiblogs home page.
Most don’t take comments tho. No idea why.
One that does is “just left’, but the blog owner is on record as saying he never reads them. Thats because the majority of comments are telling him what a prat he is.
have fun.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
The only way she won;t go in to 08 looking down the barrell of a defeat would be to call an election this year!
August 29th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Will someone please invite Inventory2 to a BBQ. He’s feeling left out
August 29th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Slightly off topic (sorry DPF) – Can someone enlighten me about the process under MMP. Would a vote of No Confidence against the Labour-led government necessitate an election, or would it simply give parties an opportunity to re-form a new coalition government?
August 29th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
It’s time.
The political cycle is old when party paybacks are done in public.
Phil will only move before the election if he thinks Labour can win.
Otherwise he doesn’t need the scar tissue.
For Clark it’s political twilight time, NZds very own lame duck…..don’t rush it, enjoy it.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
Sorry, Mike Moore Who?
The man is ppast his used by date.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
Got a bit of a stutter there, John? You’d better go and see how many other people your toxic Klarque has tramples over during her career. They’ll all be calling in their markers.
August 29th, 2007 at 7:04 pm
The man is in great company then — the smell coming from most of the Labour caucus is gross!
August 29th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
You know, morality aside, if I was Helen and wanted to throw dirt on John Key the last people I would entrust the job too would be Pete or Trevor. Neither of them have any finesse or delivery style. Particularly Pete.
Everytime he gets up to address the house he just comes across as a slightly deranged homeless drunk.
Even Micheal Cullen, who some people think is incredibly witty, comes across very ham-fisted when delivering killer barbs.
Say what you will but I’d leave that sort of job to Winston. Winston understands the proper theatrics of a good delivery.
August 29th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
Oh have you seen the latest, apparently now Helen Clark has had very strong words behind closed doors with Pete Hodgson!
August 29th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Ironically, it may have been prudent in hindsight to have kept MiKe Moore in the fold for such occasions. He still has a touch of David Lange about him and would probably be more easily forgiven by the voting public.
Oh well.
August 29th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
“Consort”
{Iam reposting this because I haven’t been given any specific answers}
I am annoyed by that “consort” reference as well.
I always thought Miss Simpson would be known as her consort as she is Ms Clarks main assistant. Is this not so ? If Ms Tizard is giving all the strategy or whatever she needs to be retired and a new “consort” found because I think Miss Simpson has really had her share of chances as well.
Does Ms Tizard have more to do directly with the PM’s or what does Mr. Moore mean ?
I am alarmed Mike Moore is a respected politician with a lot of experience – He is casting serious doubt on the current Helen Clark strategy. Whats more she was interviewed by TV3 today and she just cast his views aside an even I am thinking that something is going off the rails here. Any way could some Labour staffers please explain the consort reference.
August 29th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Flagging Red Dog:
No, I don”t think Mike Moore was referring to Judith Tizard as HC’s closest political adviser. More to do with Tizard being Helen’s closest personal friend, and the fact that Judith lived at Premier House for some time. Perhaps also because if it were not for the very special friendship Helen has with Judith, Judith would not be a Minister.
As Michael Laws has said, Judith is only the Minister of Consumer Affairs because she consumes more than any other Minister.
August 29th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
I take it Premier House is the PM’s Wellington residence.
Did she have a legitimate reason to stay there if she was advising the PM closely ?
Is this fact or fiction? – a right-wing concocted story I suspect!!
August 29th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
FRD:
I don’t think anybody has ever seriously suggested that Judith Tizard has even been a close adviser of Helen Clark. Just very, very good friends.
August 29th, 2007 at 9:17 pm
krazykiwi said “Will someone please invite Inventory2 to a BBQ. He’s feeling left out ”
Damn right I am krazykiwi – first no-one visits my blog, then I don’t get invites to barbies! I wouldn’t go to one at Phil Goff’s though – I might end up in the cabinet when he rolls Clark!!!
August 29th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Interesting how the “left” won’t engage on the “Consort” comment. The issue must be given no oxygen!
Alas MM has said the unspeakable thing, he has mentioned the deep dark secret.
Their orders are obviously “to ignore”. This is always HC’s plan A.
Plan B is if anything unfavourable gains traction, attack the messenger without mercy. I hope Mike’s ready!
August 29th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
Insolent Prick says:
I don’t think anybody has ever seriously suggested that Judith Tizard has even been a close adviser of Helen Clark. Just very, very good friends.
Reg says:
“Unspeakable thing” and “deep dark secret”
What is the innuendo here in all this?
Come on if what you are referring to is fact – put you’re facts out on the table to us!
August 29th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
Perhaps the Flagged Red Dog needs some awakening to what is really going on in those closeted rooms of Premier House……. Woof,woof
August 29th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
I think the facts will find their own way out when the time is right … secrets and public life are like oil and water.
There’s a verse in the Bible which says “Be sure your sins will find you out”. How very true.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:27 pm
IP: “I don’t think anybody has ever seriously suggested that Judith Tizard has even been a close adviser of Helen Clark. Just very, very good friends.”
Who does the hoovering on Tuesdays?