No bulk funding for schools?
September 30th, 2007 at 9:05 am by David FarrarI will be very disappointed if National does drop its policy of bulk funding for schools. All bulk funding is, is simply letting a school spend its entire budget as they see fit – rather than having central Government dictate how much must be spent on this area, how much on this area, needing permission for capital works etc.
Bulk funding is one of those things that you have hysterical scare-mongering against, but once it is in everyone would wonder what was all the fuss about. A bit like Homosexual Law Reform in the mid 1980s. Once it happens, no-one at all will want to go back to the old system as they discover how much better the new system is.
Katherine Rich has said they’re looking at other options to give schools more flexibility in their management locally. I hope these are significant.
September 30th, 2007 at 9:15 am
How much compromise will it take for you to concede that National sucks Dave?
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 9:27 am
I hope bulk funding is reintroduced and vouchers as well. Though the latter could be renamed a passport. National has to win these debates or there is no point to the party. I am not very confident that its leading politicians have the political skills to defeat Labour on these and many other issues. There is no point to Labour-lite, no point at all.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 9:33 am
Stan: Politics means you don’t get your own way on all your policies. Keith Holyoake once stated that he only agreed with 80% of what his Govt did. Mind you with Muldoon I suspect it was 100%.
No party is perfect but National by a considerable margin is the one which is best able to move New Zealand towards the country I want.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 9:34 am
Katherine Rich again..!!! What is this politically confused socialist bimbo doing in the National party? National voters should have real choices, not slightly doctored variations on Labour policy.
Rich is one of the many National politicians who has to share a lot of the blame for NZ’s politically stagnant socialist condition. She doesn’t fully understand the political concepts that have traditionally underpinned the National Party, she (apparently) can’t draft policy in accordance with those concepts, and she cannot articulate a political position that challenges the left.
While National continues to allow leftist appeasers like Rich to hold sway, Labour will continue to set the political agenda. Dump her. The sooner the better. For National and NZ.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 9:34 am
She went wet on welfare and got dropped for it. Looks like more of the same but Key will accept what Brash wouldn’t. This party is a completely different animal than the one that fought the 2005 election. What angers me so much is they are depriving the electorate of any real choice.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 9:40 am
Pity National, everytime they try to push for nonsocialist policy they get hammered by public opinion. Being Labour-lite is their only chance to get elected.
Suggestions that they take the bull by the horns and announce a raft of policies supporting user pays and personal responsibility are practically suggestions for electoral suicide.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 9:44 am
Perhaps Tim we could also have citizen tests and those that don’t meet the criterial of National are sent to Southland to live devoid of any tax payer facilities. I mean we need boundaries here people, if we are going to go voucher for education, lets do it for life after all you guys are the ones anointed by god to dictate who wins and looses.
Why is it that when in the health policy by National that the professional must be the priority, why isn’t this courtesy afforded the education professional, who overwhelmingly have time and time again fought against bulk funding. If doctors are to be listened to, then the teachers must also.
Bulk funding models are too complicated and problematic that there are just too evidently winners and losers. But you guys like that don’t you.
The teachers are the ones on the front line who know for a fact that vouchers and bulk funding in education is not what is needed for this country. And don’t come back with the “they’re all unionists” bullshit. Give me clear reasons why bulk funding will be a step forward, I’m willing to listen.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 9:47 am
Redbait, cut the socialist crap. It’s a cop out statement meaning you really don’t know what you are saying, but you want to shout from the rafters anyway.
If this country was truly socialist then you’d have something to moan about. In the mean time your bum is on fire and nobody gives a shit.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 9:58 am
Clearly Labour is going to run a hysterical scare campaign about baby eating capitalists, and will use all the resources of the State and their influence with a largely leftist media to pull it off.
So no point in committing electoral suicide. I wonder if these two little launches are just testing the water. If so its pretty clear how Labour will attack any policy whatsoever. There is not going to be policy “debate” and the media are looking for shock horror fight stories.
So maybe just articulate philosophy. Personal responsibility. The State is not able to fix all of society’s ills.
What the State does do, it must do well, get back onto the waste of money that Labour has “invested” since 1999. Where did it all go?
Does anyone really think NZ society has got better as a result of doubling health funding, banning smoking, banning smacking, banning infrastructure investment, making everybody a beneficiary, infantilising Maori and PI communities, saving non-threatened snails, attacking property rights, tightening matrimonial property act provisions, the ever increasing number of our best and brightest leaving for Australia etc etc.
The Labour Government has pissed away the dividend of a really awful dislocating period of NZ history as the economy woke up from Muldoonism.
Where DID all the growth go, where did the surpluses go?
Where is the investment in infrastructure, the cheap reliable power, the quality ICT, the well performing local bodies, the confident investors, the streamlined and simplified tax system, the streamlined and simplified RMA and OSH and IRD and other compliance costs on business. You know, all the stuff we need to be competitive as a tiny country at the arse-end of the world.
Time to wake up guys, turning up and backslapping at “World Progressive forums” doesnt cut it. The NZ economy is on the brink of hollowing out. We are surviving because milk powder is getting a good price – how long will this last.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 9:59 am
National cannot defend when they don’t understand or commit to or even know what it is they’re defending. While they can’t decide if they’re conservatives of socialists, how could they know? While they don’t know what they stand for, how can they not be intimidated by a mainstream media almost totally contaminate by socialist propagandists?
Conservatism is the easiest policy in the world to understand and sell. (small government, individual rights and property rights, leave people alone) Socialism is the easiest concept in the world to attack. (thieving, collectivist, interfering, dictatorial, historically destructive both socially and financially)
While the Nats sway confusedly between the two political concepts, and try and explain a position that is unexplainable, (to a hostile and cynical left dominated media) they’ll never make it either way.
Getting rid of pseudo liberal socialists like Rich is one of the steps they have to take to rescue the party from eventual political oblivion.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 10:07 am
“If doctors are to be listened to, then the teachers must also.”
Why? If teachers were paid on results, ninety percent of them would be getting zero. They can’t teach our children anything. They prefer to fill them full of racist and socialist propaganda. The dysfunctional education system is one of the main reasons NZ is in such terminal social decline, and the main reason this is so is because most teachers are indoctrinators rather than educators. When the NZ education system is finally freed from the grip of the detestable communist indoctrinators, only then will this country start on the long walk back to civilization and success.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 10:18 am
Paul, who are the winners and losers? My recollection was that bulk funding was adjusted based on decile, and that schools that chose bulk funding (remembering that schools got to choose) got higher funding than those not choosing bulk funding. I guess you could argue that the govt lost, because they paid more, but that is all the losing that I can remember.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Redbaiter – if you are so concerned about the allegedly “bad” character of NZ teachers and the damage they do to NZ children -
Maybe you should become a teacher yourself.
Get through to the children – and the tackle “the agenda” from within…
If you are not prepared to front up – perhaps you should shut up.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
“Maybe you should become a teacher yourself.” That suggestion makes me wonder whether there are robust psychological screening for teachers. No reason
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
This is a very surprising change of position. Unlike the combat wing, where National could argue to much water was under the bridge, there’s no constraint on them in this instance therefore the change is significant. Key’s obviously unconvinced of the advantages of bulk-funding, usually overstated, or has assessed it as too risky.
Bulkfunding as been too much of an issue for too long – always part of the “greater flexibility” argument as if this was the NZ schools were heavily straitjacketed. NZ schools experience far far greater autonomy than is the case in many other countries – take Australia for instance. In NSW, not only are schools centrally funded, their staffing is heavily centralised too (not a position I’d advocate and although public schools are losing market share, exam results and retention rates are comparable between public and private).
The problem I have with the bulkfunding is that I’ve not really heard many arguments that suggest learning outcomes would be enhanced?
You know you’re in trouble when Lindsay and Redbaiter are on your side – Lindsay’s comment about Rich is typical of her approach – play the man not the ball and Redbaiters are the ususal extreme, ill-informed frothing at the mouth – 90% would get zero, society in decline, communist state … no wonder Key’s dropped the policy.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Bulk Funding is a tool for breaking up the national education system into individual units with weaker unions, and therefore, worse pay for teachers, and these units are primed for privitisation.
Teaching quality falls under bulk funding because the schools get one lump of funding for wages and everyhting else, rather than wages being paid seperately – schools are incentivised to skimp on wages and divert the moeny elesewhere by not employing more expensive senior teachers, leading to a ower qualtiy of teaching.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
If National concedes itself to Labour-lite then it will only be a one term Government. I am not interested in a Government that concedes most of the political debate to the Labour Party. Tnhough National has won the biggie and that is socilaism is dead and the Labour Party have to invent something else their party stands for. And each election they come up with some other confusing statement on what their party is about.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
tim, your insight and analysis is remarkable; do go on…
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
I believe the principal of bulk funding is good – letting schools decide how to best meet educational objectives. the trouble is that school are under funded in an absolute sense and bulk funding would allow the government to ‘blame’ poor financial performamce on school mis-management
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
I believe the principal of bulk funding is good – letting schools decide how to best meet educational objectives. the trouble is that school are under funded in an absolute sense and bulk funding would allow the government to ‘blame’ poor financial performance on school mis-management
while it’s quite correct to observe that senior teachers are more expensive, the [rather incorrect] assertion is that senior teachers offer the best quality teaching. and if there is any skimping going on it’s because schools are underfunded. period.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
krazykiwi, schools have enormous discretion over the way in which they “best meet educational objectives” including as the employer staff. I’m not entirely convinced by the PPTA line that bulk-funding necessarily means less funding for teaching over time but I can understand their concern. So long as the majority of public school teachers’ salary/conditions remain centrally agreed, I can’t see what educational benefits follow from bulkfunding.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
Whitebait,
our teachers are among some of the best in the western world and all of that complete and utter bullshit that you heap on them is systematic of the problems of this country. Small minded people like you with little or no intelligence spurting on about this and that without an ounce of grip on reality with their heads so firmly up ones.. that they think everyone else is covered in the excrement that you view the world through.
If you have any friends in the real world, please ask them for help, and really stop taking the blue pill it’s just not working.
As for the bulk funding tied to the decile tier system. Sounds good in theory (like most policy from Naitonal), but the devil is in the detail. Considering that the school is at the whim of the principal and the board under bulk funding, what if, just what if they cock-up, are the kids to be the ones who suffer. The majority of well to do schools have well placed boards with well appointed principals, they already have an advantage.
But this was just one of the many concerns that we had (yes I was a teacher for 8 years whitebait boy) as teachers. We put them to policy geeks and ministers time and time again and all we got back in return was, we don’t accept your concerns. Hardly accepting the concerns of the professionals who are meant to implement these policies. Why was it the whole time I was a teacher (Under National) the two schools I was at didn’t receive one single increase in operational dollars, yet costs and shock horror, compliance costs imposed by govts were skyrocketing. As a profession we don’t accept the idea of bulk funding, and we aren’t listened to time and time again.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
“In the end, its all a big nothing.” Tony Soprano’s infamous Mother said that once, and all the hype about National will adhere to her logic too. When this idea of theirs fizzles down to what their policy will actually say, it’ll probably only outline funding for 5% of NZ private schools to purchase one pre-cooked, plastic-skinned sausage for each student, each year. That’s their 21stC idea of ‘Think[ing] Big’…
Vote:‘Bulk-funding for bulky children’. That has a higher chance of being their education/health policy rather than something desirable along the lines of; ‘quality schooling, happy parents, well-resourced schools’. Of course, Labour will expand on the latter of those two slogans…
September 30th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
I agree with virtually everything Redbaiter has stated and I also believe Rich has shown again and again that she is in the wrong party. Unfortunately her demonstrated sexual orientation disqualifies her from joining the ninth floor coven. Bulk funding was regarded as a great success by those that tried it. I can only hope that the reason National has reportedly abandoned it is because they realize that if they announce it as policy the PPTA will spend hundreds of thousands of members fees agitating against it during the forthcoming Helengrad gag period and wish to deprive these socialist acolytes of another easy target.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
“I was a teacher for 8 years whitebait boy”
I’d already guessed that. Just the kind of extreme left zealot that shouldn’t be within a light year of any education facility. Imagine what damage you did to the minds of children left innocently in your care. Imagine a school system run and controlled by a thousand more like you. No wonder its such an inwardly collapsing and monumental disaster. Union/ leftist/ socialist control and contamination of education is the biggest crisis this country faces and a serious threat to the democratic system. Just a few headlines from the many that are out there-
‘Low-calibre’ teachers at chalkface
NZ herald 15.01.2003
Worried secondary school principals say up to half the teachers recently appointed for the coming school year are not of a high enough calibre in a year where teacher shortages are the worst on record.
NZ education levels falling behind other OECD countries
Dominion 03.05.2002
Education levels in New Zealand have been outstripped by other countries in the past three decades, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) said today
Only half of year 11 students passing first stage of NCEA
NZ Herald 10.05.2004
Only about half of year 11 students are passing the first stage of the Government’s main secondary school qualification — the National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA), a new website profiling the nation’s secondary schools shows.
Standard of teachers defended
Dominion 19 February 2003
Massey University’s College of Education has hit back at claims some graduates aren’t up to scratch. Allan Peachey, principal of New Zealand’s biggest school, Rangitoto College, said yesterday some graduates applying for teaching positions were sending in CVs so badly written pupils would be failed for presenting them.
Universities’ gradings stun adviser
NZ herald 07.04.2004
A key adviser to the body that rates tertiary research is dismayed at how poorly New Zealand universities compare with British ones under a new grading system.
Where’s NZ?
Newstalk ZB 09/1102
More than 40 percent of intermediate school children are unable to accurately place New Zealand on a world map. The surprising result comes from an Otago University study which quizzed over 2,800 children from 254 schools.
Picking up litter earns NCEA credits
Vote:NZ Herald 05.07.2003
Students can get NCEA credits for completing menial tasks such as picking up litter.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Sorry Red, which of these stories relate to bulkfunding again?
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
“Sorry Red, which of these stories relate to bulkfunding again?”
He claimed NZ teachers were “some of the best in the western world” That’s manifest crap. They’re hopeless, and the reason they’re hopeless is because of union control. Unions are the main resistance point to bulk funding. You got nothing better to do than nit pick you silly attention seeking prick then fuck off.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
rebvaiter – that’s not manifest crap. It’s considered personal opinion. You’re entitled to yours as he is his. Paul has also worked in the industry and deserves better than being told to f*ck off.
Paul – the thread has covered the quality of education in addition to direct discussion of bulk funding. you clearly have views on this subject, as do i (i’m chair of a school BOT and my wife is an excellent teacher of 20+ years). you mightn’t like redbaiters style (insults etc) but the kind of headlines he listed indicate that our education system is a long way from excellent. this is despite a good number of dedicated and capable teachers who are still working hard to improve things.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
“It’s considered personal opinion.”
Yep, and my opinion of that opinion is that its manifest crap.
“Paul has also worked in the industry and deserves better than being told to f*ck off.”
He deserves what he begs for. He can’t post a comment here without some snide reference to Redbaiter or someone else. Pompous pretentious self important arsehole.
The education system is a socialist quagmire, and teachers are a large part of the problem. I don’t care what whining commies like Paul W say, I have much more credible references from one time teachers that echo my own views.
Its time society stopped pretending teachers were separate from the problem and faced the reality. Without individual teacher support the unions would not have the control they do. Do you know the Educational Institute was one of the few groups to present a submission in support of the EFB? Fucken educators, and they support something so anti-democratic. They should be the ones most vehemently opposed.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
redbaiter, one of the problems with the youth of today is their dogmatic failure to acknowledge constructive criticism and their tendency to bite back
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
When teachers start taken their kids to watch bullshit movies like Al Cores crap on globlal warming you know something is not right. I wouldn’t mind so much if they took the time to offer an opposing veiw but no such luck there.
Vote:One of my sons came home and said one of their teachers told him we were not aloud to hit them, which we VERY rarely do. I kicked him up the arse and told him to tell his teacher I would do the same to them should this happen again, quite frankly I’m sick of these socialist busy bodies. But what makes me laugh the most is all the bleating teachers moaning to the government about how they can no longer control classes as the students are abusing teachers. Well how fucking sad, these bloody liberals get to reap what they have sown, how thick can you get?.
Many teachers are nothing more then the puppets of the 9th floor because it’s very clear many have put their brains in park.
September 30th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
Yeah, I think it was one of Paul’s appreciative students who carried a sign saying;
Vote:“Our countries teachers are the best.”
My wife was on the Board of a bulk funded school. The principal was the local leader of the N.Z.E.I and warned the Board that it would be the end of civilisation as we know it. He was really angry about it. But the only reason (?) he could give to oppose Bulk Funding was that it was not N.Z.E.I policy. Well, the Board chairman was a polite determined solicitor who persuaded the Board to go ahead with the Bulk Funding. The school’s Board was just a little embarrassed by the funds they received. The Ministry threw money at them; great handfuls of the stuff. Other local schools were just a little peeved that they had listened to brilliant teachers like Paul, and their schools had missed out.
It is only because our children have left school that I am free to criticise teachers. I was always terrified that the sort of people in teaching would persecute our children if I spoke out against teachers.
September 30th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
Bulk funding is a half measure. The only way to truly improve the standard of NZ schools is through a system of school choice. Half measures leave many of the failings of the existing problem. Yet, these failings will be blamed on the new reforms. Half measures like bulk funding are more than a waste of time, they are counter-productive.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
# tim barclay Says:
September 30th, 2007 at 9:27 am
I hope bulk funding is reintroduced and vouchers as well. Though the latter could be renamed a passport. National has to win these debates or there is no point to the party. I am not very confident that its leading politicians have the political skills to defeat Labour on these and many other issues. There is no point to Labour-lite, no point at all.
Vote:Hear hear
everyone should have totally free choice where to sent their kids to school
September 30th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
Andrew W Says:
September 30th, 2007 at 9:40 am
Pity National, everytime they try to push for nonsocialist policy they get hammered by public opinion. Being Labour-lite is their only chance to get elected.
No they got hammere d for being cluless
ooops someone has aksed me this question I better answer it even though I dont have a clue
“we are going to do this even though its not in our policy” – ryall
“im going to answer that question even though i dont know bugga all about health policy” – key
net result the national party looks like morons
Brashs results last time (alsmost a win) with more right polices shows there is room to go out right but key and co have to do a lot more work to shore up all possible votes an so far they havent
so hop Natinal gets itself far better organsdised because they got a job to do to represent voters
key did well on ecucation policy release so hope he manages better with the rest
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
# Paul Says:
September 30th, 2007 at 9:44 am
The teachers are the ones on the front line who know for a fact that vouchers and bulk funding in education is not what is needed for this country. And don’t come back with the “they’re all unionists” bullshit. Give me clear reasons why bulk funding will be a step forward, I’m willing to listen.
Youll have to do a lot better than that sunshine
If your gonna make a proposition by that back it up with facts not rhetoric
“bulk funding and vouchers dont work”
ACTUALLY THEY DO
PRIVATE EDUCATION WORKS
So don;t make political statem ents like that without backing them up
Vote:Show some spine and say something like “Buld funding and vouchers dont work because the P.P.T.A. said so” lol
September 30th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Paul, where did you get the idea that Kiwi teachers are amongst the best in the world? What utter nonsense. Did you take that from a PPTA manual?!
I work in international education in London and dispute that completely. Sure some Kiwi teachers are good but I have found they are the same ones who support Bulk Funding because each INDIVIDUAL school can decide where its own funded goes.
I guess people like you hate the idea of the word individual. May I also ask, why are you against poorer schools getting bigger funding and independence than richer schools?
Might I remind you that the PPTA is also fiercely against paying good teachers more than bad teachers…..care to shed light on that?
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 11:22 pm
Bulk funding was introduced by the Fourth Labour Government back in the late 1980s. It was a logical extension of the Tomorrow’s Schools policy in handing over administration of funding along with everything else.
I challenge anyone who claims the agenda was privatisation, to show where one single bulk funded public institution anywhere in the whole education sector in all of NZ, was privatised in the 12 or so years that bulk funding was in operation.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 11:34 pm
The world according to Sam Dixon on September 30th, 2007 at 12:57 pm:
Bulk Funding is a tool for breaking up the national education system into individual units with weaker unions, and therefore, worse pay for teachers, and these units are primed for privitisation.
Well, I have never met such an honest socialist before. Although the last part of your argument is nonsense. What privatisations took place under the previous bulk funding regime?
“Weaker unions” sums up 90% of the opposition. The PPTA and NZEI see themselves as the guardians of the public school system. The problem is that they seek to impose their ideology over every aspect of the school. Thus, the question is whether our kids really go to school to learn, or to be indoctrinated.
There’s no question that the education unions derive much of their collective strength from the centralised system of pay fixing, but this is purely because the government bought their votes by agreeing to scrap bulk funding, and in the kindergarten sector, by reinstating them to State Sector Act coverage. Schools are still bulk funded for support staff, and the tertiary sector that shifted to bulk funding and had their staff taken out of the State Sector Act remains in that situation, as do other sectors.
“Worse pay for teachers” is very subjective. Not every teacher is going to sign up to the political rhetoric of the unions and get caught up in their ideological nonsense.
Vote:September 30th, 2007 at 11:36 pm
The world according to Paul W on September 30th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
Vote:krazykiwi, schools have enormous discretion over the way in which they “best meet educational objectives” including as the employer staff. I’m not entirely convinced by the PPTA line that bulk-funding necessarily means less funding for teaching over time but I can understand their concern. So long as the majority of public school teachers’ salary/conditions remain centrally agreed, I can’t see what educational benefits follow from bulkfunding.
Educational benefits probably follow more radical reforms, like vouchers.
September 30th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
The world according to Paul on September 30th, 2007 at 2:27 pm:
As for the bulk funding tied to the decile tier system. Sounds good in theory (like most policy from Naitonal), but the devil is in the detail. Considering that the school is at the whim of the principal and the board under bulk funding, what if, just what if they cock-up, are the kids to be the ones who suffer. The majority of well to do schools have well placed boards with well appointed principals, they already have an advantage.
So we need a one size fits all approach because some boards aren’t competent, therefore you would deny people better educational opportunities because not every school could offer them.
This is a typical argument that you get from union people, when they defend poor performers. In a sense they oppose achievement as “elitist” and instead advocate for a system in which everything is “equal”. The trouble is, that means everyone gets dragged down to the most mediocre level.
I have a better idea. How about letting parents have a completely free choice where to send their children, and just fund the schools based on their actual enrolments rather than saying “School X is only allowed to enrol Y students”. Of course, some poorly performing schools would close. The unions would be up in arms, of course, because you can’t close a school just because it offers a bad education, just like you can’t sack a teacher just because they do a bad job.
And if that is the reason, what is the education system there for? To educate children to the highest level of achievement they are capable of, or mass indoctrination to the lowest common denominator?
Vote:October 1st, 2007 at 6:33 am
aye, what Partick Dunford said.
Vote:October 1st, 2007 at 6:55 am
My wife and I own and manage an Early Childhood Education service, where we are recipients of bulk funding. We are advance-funded four months at a time, based on the previous four months’ attendance figures. The system is not perfect (eg roll growth takes a while to translate into funding), but generally speaking, it works well. The obvious negative is surviving the month before the next funding is paid (starts today!!), but our bank is very caring and protective of our interests!
Most importantly though, it gives us the flexibility to plan our year, and allocate reources to the areas we consider important. For example, my wife purchases most of our educational resources in one month via a window of opportunity to purchase directly from wholesalers. To accomodate this, we allocate a sum of the funding in that period. We feel much more in control of both our funding, and the viability of our service, and at the end of the day, bulk funding enables us to provide a superior service to families accessing the service – surely, our sole rationale for existing!
Vote:October 1st, 2007 at 11:17 am
I was a school board trustee for 6 years in one of the middle decile schools. Bulk funding would have been good for our board as we had members whose day jobs included financial management. Unfortunately some school boards are not so lucky and are peopled by illiterate & innumerate parent reps.
Vote:As for those teacher incompentancy comments above – many classroom problems are caused by bad behaviour & attitudes to learning which are the result of their reprobate home life. This is not necessarily related to decile ranking, rather it is a parental attitude problem.
Sure there is a lot of liberal, homosexual, Maori, socialist, PC, greenie, feminist, whitey, capitalist, Asian, communist, sexually permissive, fascist, atheistic, scientistic ideology taught in our schools. Every teacher brings their own world view with them when they teach. Our job as parents is to teach our kids to think critically about things and to have the courage to speak up if they disagree.
October 1st, 2007 at 4:35 pm
And also, as a parent, if you encourage your children to view teachers as not worthy of respect then that is hardly going to help their learning.
Some children (particularly at higher decile schools i have noticed) are very arrogant. I actually like to encourage critical thinking in students as some of them just parrot what their parents say without even knowing what it is they are really saying.
It is healthy for students to be exposed to a range of perspectives and be given the tools and skills to critically interpret these perspectives.
From what i have seen majority of teachers do not impose their viewpoints on students but to encourage them to consider other peoples as valid
Vote:October 1st, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Red, you’re hysterical. Show me where anything you’ve said relates to the topic of this thread – you remember, bulkfunding? You hyperventilate and huff and puff but most of what you say is hyperbole with little or not basis – endless sweeping statements floating about in insults. I suspect you’re nome-de-plume hides a very timid soul in person.
I don’t think I’ve said anything about the quality of teachers in NZ (and please tell me again how bulk-funding improves the quality of teaching or learning) though now that you’ve invited me… I’m now aware of any comparative or absolute evidence which suggests that teaching in NZ is poor – half a dozen headlines from various lobby groups excepted. NZ scores pretty well on most international indices (from memory). Care to comment without cut and pasting press releases?
Vote:October 2nd, 2007 at 4:07 am
“The education system is a socialist quagmire”
more fact based argument.
I like the headlines, You are now using the media as a tool for measuring teacher competence. Nice should I be using the same media to measure economic success? I bloody hope Treasury doesn’t.
And FUCK OFF with all the union talk. The schools I taught at didn’t have unions, so poo sux for want of a better come back to the most ridiculous crap I’ve heard in a while.
And to assume that because I am left that I am indoctrinating your poor defenseless children – wow how far does your stupidity go and how poor is your assumption of ones professionalism.
Still keep up the fantastical assassination of the teachers if that’s what gets you horny.
thanks for some of you with meaningful contribution, much appreciated and finally some informed debate. Incredibly refreshing.
Vote:October 2nd, 2007 at 7:54 pm
National is just Labour Lite.
Vote:October 3rd, 2007 at 1:33 am
Paul Says:
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:07 am
And FUCK OFF with all the union talk. The schools I taught at didn’t have unions, so poo sux for want of a better come back to the most ridiculous crap I’ve heard in a while.
And to assume that because I am left that I am indoctrinating your poor defenseless children – wow how far does your stupidity go and how poor is your assumption of ones professionalism.
The unions are involved in more than industrial relations. They have a lot to do with advocacy of the direction of the education system. For example the NZEI just had its AGM and they were addressed by Ross Wilson who said things like
“Your work in ensuring that we have salaries and conditions which attract and retain skilled teachers, and in addressing professional issues and helping shape our national education policies for the future, are a vital contribution to the challenge of nation building I want to focus on today. ”
That is just one speaker, there were a range of speakers. Taken together with all the other activities it’s quite clear that the teachers’ unions are in the position of policy advocacy because that’s what their members want.
Sorry, I don’t buy your line at all. I know people who have quit the teacher’s unions because of all the pro-government political statements they were making about education.
In my view, the further left you are, the more likely you are to want to indoctrinate.
Vote: