General Debate 18 October 2007
So the IRB has found Wayne Barnes made a series of mistaken calls against the All Blacks, but none of them were significant despite not noticing a forward pass they scored a try off!
Discuss this or anything else!
No TweetBacks yet. (Be the first to Tweet this post)
Tags: New Zealand, Sport
October 18th, 2007 at 8:01 am
its always against the all blacks
they’re consistently marginalised through no fault of their own in world cups.
I suspect that ref had no business being involved in that top level of play and they foisted him on the AB,s
Never the less, come 2011, there will be no excuses.
Without a complete victory on home soil, the AB’s will never have integrity again. scary thought
October 18th, 2007 at 8:02 am
Do the teams have a say in the choice of referee? If so the AB’s need to make sure they are never landed with a green ref in an important game. Too often inexperienced refs have lost games for them.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:10 am
Three things, first the ref was useless – no way he should have missed what he did at that level of the game. Second the All Blacks should have had far more points on the board that the refs incompetencies didnt matter. And third, teams should not be allowed to field second rate teams against a stronger opponent so they can rest for a future match.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:24 am
bevan, your third point is fair… but remember the we fielded second-rate teams in our pool games too. perhaps it’s time to have F1-style rules in respect of engines and tyres applied to rugby bodies on the paddock?
also, I see that Wayne Barnes is coming to nz shortly. Now THAT could explain the recent ‘terrorist’ training activites!
October 18th, 2007 at 8:24 am
To be fair missing a forward pass is not a hanging offence. It happens. The Frogs still had to break tackles and get across the line.
The phrase ‘scored from a forward pass’ conveniently forgets the missed tackles and other cock ups by the defending team.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:31 am
I don’t understand. Had the ref picked up this very forward pass, and awarded penalties, then the AB’s would have won.
So, how can paddy say the French would still have won had they not been awarded these points, and the AB’s awarded penalties?
Being generous (allowing for a couple of mistakes where penalties were not awared), the french would be 7 points less, and the AB’s 3 to 6 points more. Therefore, the AB’s would have comfortably won.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:34 am
Pathetic that in this age of technology that recorded blatant infringements of the rules are ignored. However absolute par for the course.
The same principle apply to our electoral process. Blatant breaches of the Electoral rules are recorded and are then legalised. Its all tied up with corruption.
So legalise forward passes and score tries and win games. Line umpires are there for show. Game is in disrepute the same as our Parliament.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:37 am
We lost the world cup because the ref gave one frenchman a 1 m headstart. End of story.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:44 am
We did not have a fit No. 10 (and no McAllister is not a good kicker), which is a very bad against quality opposition.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:52 am
get over it..!
fucken rugby-head wankers..!
they beat the crap out of the all blacks..
just lift your sad arses off the ground eh..?
and go and cry into your npc scarves..!
you’ve had two fucken weeks to moan and groan..(and cry..(!)..)
enough..!
shut the fuck up now..!
and realise..
that large numbers of us couldn’t give a rats’ arse about your infantile obsession/raison d’etre..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 18th, 2007 at 8:54 am
OK – The IRB also ssaid that the ref (and touch judges) missed two penalty offences when the ABs were camped on the French line in the last ten minutes of the game. In a game that had 2 pts seperating the teams I would say that was the real game breaker. Even an average kicker scores 50%.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:55 am
Also – rugby would be improved no end if field goals were only worth a point like they are in league.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:56 am
Phil – I take it you are not a passionate rugby fan then.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:57 am
The All Black team members, the All Black coaches, the French Team and their coaches all made serious mistakes during the game. In particular a team that was slated to win by as much as 30 points made many, many tactical and human errors during the game. Three errors by the referee were minuscule in comparison to the mistakes the All Blacks made. One try should not have made a difference, but because of the ineptitude of the tactical coaches, they lost the entire game.
The All Blacks lost the game from a tactical level; the ref had nothing to do with the All Black tactical game.
Of course there is rumour that Paddy O’Brian is actually a member of the Maori Party, having his great, great, great grandmother on his aunt’s side, being married to the cousin of the uncle of his grandfather’s sister fourth cousin, and that this loss was orchestrated by appointing an incompetent referee to ensure the Maori All Black get into the next World Cup.
Either that or the ref was having an affair with the wife of the French President, which is now causing divorce proceedings in France, because it was to end once France won, but the relationships thrived after it was revealed she was also betting on the English to win. I understand they are now both living in Geneva surviving on the winnings.
However the most likely cause it the curse that the Labour Party puts on successful, hardworking individuals to ensure that they fall to the level of the lowest common denominator and not having a woman as the head coach. Watch for new legislation!
October 18th, 2007 at 9:05 am
and when 2011 rolls around..
you’ll have a bit more than rugby to worry about..
the ‘long game’ of the global economic/environmental meltdowns..
should be wee and truely ‘biting’ by then..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
didyasee how the chinese and japanese are shedding us treasury bonds as fast as they can..
gold is at over us$750 an ounce..
any alarm bells ringing for anyone yet..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 18th, 2007 at 9:05 am
“This action has violated the trust that has been developing between Maori and Pakeha and sets our race relations back 100 years.” – Pita Sharples, speaking to a Queensland conference on restorative justice.
Oh . . . he’s talking about the police . . . not Tame Iti
October 18th, 2007 at 9:09 am
If race relations have been set back 100 years, perhaps Maoridom would like to consider refunding the last 100 years’ settlements etc.
What nonsense.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:10 am
Forget the ref – worry about the All Blacks themselves. I heard an interview on radio about the effects of the rotation policy and believe it or not it has resulted in a bunch of dickheads.
Apparently sometimes the coaches/managers have to presuade the chosen players to actually take the field………..
This rotation crap has removed all the competition from them. They are saying weird things like “Its not my turn this week”
No wonder they didnt make it. They need a bit a serious competitive spirit – like the old romans used to use with the christians in the amphitheatre – kill or be killed.!!
October 18th, 2007 at 9:14 am
If you want to know why they really lost, all you have to do is read Chris Rattues slating of the French team’s chances before the match. It was the lack of grey matter that lost the match. Same as France against The English.
‘Pride goeth before destruction and haughty spirit before a fall’
October 18th, 2007 at 9:15 am
Like the ref, forget peter sharples also. Sharples is just another political bum who is constantly jumping on whatever political wagon is going fastest at the time.
Ive said it before and will continue to say it….
Until all NZ citizens become New Zealanders first and culture second then one can forget any sort of racial acceptance or integration. I always get annoyed when I see these questionars that ask for ethnicity. I always cross out all options and write “new Zealander”
October 18th, 2007 at 9:15 am
kill or be killed…. i’m note sure the example offered there would have been considered, um, a fair competition !
October 18th, 2007 at 9:18 am
Phil is passionate. Anybody who feels the need to curse every 10th word is passionate. Unfortunately for phil he lives in NZ and has just blasphemed – we shall be talking about this from now until 2011 at least. Need we mention that Sally the Cook poisoned the AB food in 1995.
PS – to the moderators, Phils is swearing at life in general and done quite well. It is colourful and not offensive to rugby fans.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:23 am
Phil, just because you despise the game of Rugby, is no reason to go all septic on the rest of us because we do.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:26 am
Actually it was Suzy the Waitress unaha!
On the subject of the referee, I am actually more disappointed about the IRB’s protocol in appointing Barnes to such a crucial match where he “froze in the headlights”, and even more disappointed by Paddy O’Brien’s blind obedience to his employer. Had Paddy come out and said that Barnes didn’t have a great game and in hindsight, it was probably a mistake to have appointed him would have earned his more kudos than blindly sticking to the party line.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:36 am
Oh get over it – this is as bad as Tuhoe banging on about not signing the treaty – it’s over guys.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:38 am
I am interesting to know at which point the IRB/Paddy O’Brien would consider that a ref’s poor decision making would have *actually* had an impact on the result. I suspect that the answer is never, irrespective of how bad the reffing was – an exercise in arse covering. I think that a more transparent reviewing of referees is required at all levels of the game. Like any closed system, those inside are averse to transparency.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:44 am
Can we stop whingeing about minority sports now please? You’ve had a fortnight, ffs.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:50 am
Yeah, we have to get over it – the ABs have won their share of games through poor reffing decisions.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:50 am
One thing only for those who are so pathetic that they always want to blame some-one else. Here it is is as simple as I can make it. The ref had no real influence. The Fijian team were down to 14 men against arguably a much better team than Fiji (South Africa) and they scored two tries.
The All Blacks did not have the mental strength to lift themselves that extra notch. Go have a look at the first try of the came (and the complete report from O Brien) and you will see that the All Black try was off a forward pass as well. Get over it , it happens. Grow a backbone FFS and like the Aussies say, we are just not good enough on the day. As a south african I have now listened to more than 20 years (the amount of time I have lived in NZ) How every world cup 1) did not matter 20 You were poisoned, 3) The draw was all wrong, 4) The ref was useless, 5) The balls were wrong, 6) The Aussies cheated 7) The poms did not deserve it
God was on holiday 9) Mars changed it’s orbit, 10) Liza Millelli decided to start singing again.
When it comes to rugby I am always amused when the french, the australians and the south africans are accused of arrogance.
Until you guys can stand up and say wow, we were out played, you will always choke when it comes to the big games. Because the one thing you can put the house on, is that the All Blacks will choke in the big games and that their fans will find some-one else to blame. Or that the fans will all of a sudden decide that the World Cup does not matter.
It really reminds me a bit of the way Tane and Sonic argues about the achievements and failures of Helen and co.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:54 am
‘despise’ is far to strong a word..
‘disinterest’ would pretty much cover it..
stirred into curmudgeoness..
by all the broken-arses..
going on..and on..and feckin’ on..
do these sad bastards have nothing else in their lives..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 18th, 2007 at 10:02 am
Phil
Since you were nice enough to quote my historic perspective piece on the loss perhaps you might be inclined to listen to me offer a bit more perspective.
What I’m getting a bit sick of is the complaints from day one that “we should just get over it”, and there’s too much emphasis on it here in NZ by sad male Kiwi’s.
So far I have not heard of any All Black fan topping themselves – unlike those fabulous South American soccer fans – societies often touted as being more passionate and
emotionally open and colourful than we drab little souls.
I have not seen AB fans rioting, burning effigies of players or issuing death threats against them – as is often the case with all those European soccer fans – the same Europeans we’re so often told are more sophisticated than South Sea rustics.
We’re certainly not as obsessive about it as many fans of other sports are overseas.
I’ve heard some rumour of death threats against the ref but have not seen the actual statements on video or the net so have my doubts. It was probably something along the lines of “he should be bloody shot” – rather less serious than what fans of other sports have done when referees have been informed in writing that “we know where you live”.
So give your rugby loving, fellow Kiwi citizens a break will you. Yes, I was upset and pissed off (bit NOT surprised), as were most people I knew, and unloading as people are doing here is good for us. If it takes a month – and non-fans like you having to listen to it – I think that’s only fair in exchange for us not acting like the examples above.
=======
Back on topic – what gets me about the refs performance is not highlighting the mistakes of commission – anybody could make those – but the mistake of ommission. That sort of mistake is what is often not taken into account – the classic, sly “half-truth” that people try to get away with. The IRB assessment seems to me to be the same.
How any team can have as little possession as the French did and not get done with one penalty in the second half is beyond belief. I know they were disciplined in defence but with that sort of possession imbalance no one could be that disciplined. I’m damned if I can see that they were under any greater pressure from England and they were penalised often enough in that game to make a difference. It’s like Barnes was looking only at one team.
I do accept the point that the AB’s should have piled up enough points for such mistakes not to make a difference but that ignores the historic fact that World Cup SF and QF’s are almost never runaway games. They’re close, tough dogfights and in that situation the ref has to be a damn sight better than Barnes was.
Trouble is, our on-field thinking in such situations has to be a damn sight better than it was too.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:05 am
Message from the French.
We won, you lost – eat that!
October 18th, 2007 at 10:05 am
go play somwheres else then phil.
The fact that you don’t is indicative of your deep seated desire to control the agenda, a truly sad commentary on your philosophy at best, state of mind at worst
It is called freedom of choice, freedom of speech, a democracy even. Given that your rants have not encouraged any supporting views you have been outvoted.
You are the weakest link, perhaps even the missing link
October 18th, 2007 at 10:11 am
The prospect is tantalising …..
Watching the NZ comrades trapped in poor phils economic meltdown will be entertainment as good as the ABs in a WC final.
Still, some of us will be forced to prosper,
October 18th, 2007 at 10:13 am
Two points:
1) Why is a 28 year old at the start of his career being asked to referee such an important game? A more experienced referee almost certainly would have picked up that forward pass (Barnes was in a good position to see it).
2) Why weren’t the All Blacks 30 points ahead of the French by then? That is a bloody ordinary side we lost to, at least on paper.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:14 am
Tom Hunter how can you guys look at yourself in the mirror in the morning. No guts. A man would give credit to the team that bested them.
Most boxers walk over and shakes the hand of the guy who knocked them out. It is called growing up. Stop all this backboneless bullshit of blaming others. Of being “Pissed off ” If the all blacks had won, not a word would have been said about the ref. In fact around the world nothing much has been said about the ref. He did not cost you the game. Underachieving all blacks did.
Mate leave the victim mentality to the left and be man enough not to make excuses. If SA loses to England (God Forbid) on Sunday, I will be the first to say that England are deserved world champs…they won the games that counted. And if SA wins they will be deserved world champions. No ref, no balls no poison.
And you guys wonder why Helen does what she wants?
October 18th, 2007 at 10:17 am
Hey Bok,
Have you seen this?
http://www.dropkicks.co.nz/rugby_world_cup/facing_haka
One of the more sporting posts about the French from the Dropkicks.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:19 am
Ilew now that is a man. And a sportsman
October 18th, 2007 at 10:31 am
Bok is correct. Get over it. The Frenc won, The AB’s lost – eat that.
I was disgusted at our teams behaviour. Bok is correct, I’ve been knocked to the floor in kick boxing, had my nose broken 3 times, ribs broken etc etc etc. BUT you always get up and touch gloves – tell your oponent they fought a good fight even if all you want to do is smash them one after the bell.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:34 am
Another true Kiwi Burt. People like you is why I chose to make this my home over 20 years ago. I played rep rugby here and I was always impressed with the level of sportsmanship and just what a great and proud nation NZ was despite it’s size. That has totally changed in the last 10 years I am afraid.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:35 am
Oops maybe burt is not a kiwi, but that used to be the kiwi psyche .
October 18th, 2007 at 10:37 am
And so the litany of excuses and whinging continue, fuelled by one eyed talk back hosts and backward biased kiwi journalists.
The simple fact is the all Blacks were under done.
They did not play enough competitive rugby this year. keven mealamu for instance has taken the field 7 times this year.
There inability to grind it out in tight games has undone them again and until the teams they are involved in from club through provincial to the national team start picking their best team each and every time they play we will continue to fail.
This was a 50 million dollar campaign that can only be judged as a complete and utter failure, continued whining will see New Zealand win one title from the UK, and that tilte is biggest whingers in the world.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:38 am
I’m a kiwi Bok.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:40 am
I believe someone calling themselves Revbriantamaki edited the ref’s wikipedia page offering $1000 to anyone who could find & hold him captive until he could get there.
And Bok – compare that post with this tosser
http://timesonline.typepad.com/rugby/2007/10/new-zealand-exi.html
I’d have thought his readers would be more interested in England’s triumph. But he didn’t.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:44 am
At least Ford came in one, two ,three at Bathurst, the day wasn’t a total disaster.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:47 am
Well it doesn’t seem to have been posted about yet, so:
NZ 13th most taxed nation in OECD -
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10470651
You may notice that Luxembourg, a small country with the highest per capita GDP in the world, pays more tax than us.
Norway, Iceland, Denmark, Austria and the Netherlands are also all in the top ten in the world for per capita GDP, and all have higher taxes than NZ.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:48 am
Bok
If you want to see what I thought at the time (and still think) read my comment in this thread (about a third of the way into it). It’s all about the AB’s and their faults (possibly historic) – nothing about the ref.
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/10/fuck.html#comments
I think that should demonstrate that I’ve enough of a handle on the game in general that I can look at myself in the mirror. I was well prepared for a loss to the French, as I was in 1999 because of the old adage of “the best team on the day”.
However, that does not stop me being pissed off at the loss and the way we lost. It also does not stop me from commenting on a crap referring performance – which I’ve done when the AB’s have won as well as lost.
If it needs to be said explicitly then fine: the ref did not lose us that game, we did, mainly because we did not think about him or the opposition.
And just as a final aside – what is all this mano-a-mano crap about “dealing with it”. Every bloody fan in every sport I’ve ever known unloads on referees and umpires – you should sit in an American bar watching baseball, football or basketball – which is why they’ve gone with multiple refs and TV replays as far as possible.
I did not hear any Springbok supporters ever bitching about the ref in the ’76 series but heard quite a bit in ’81 – not to mention the whinging about Richie McCaw in the last few years. Perhaps you are an exceptionally fairminded SA supporter. I guess we’ll have to wait until Monday morning to find out your reaction if SA loses to England because of not one but several bad reffing decisions!
By the way – I’ll be supporting your guys all the way because they play better rugby than the bloody Poms. Not much use calling yourselves World Champions if you lose to everybody else for the following three years!
October 18th, 2007 at 10:48 am
Can anyone answer ben’s question?
“1) Why is a 28 year old at the start of his career being asked to referee such an important game?”
How are ref’s selected for the tournament and each game?
October 18th, 2007 at 10:50 am
Y’know… 28 doesn’t sound that wet behind the ears.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:54 am
I agree Ilew however in his defense and it is not really a defense, you have to realize that we (non allblack supporters) are bombarded with the absolute statement of fact that these huys are god’s (Kirk called them that) and that the allblack’s only fault is that they have too much talent. So you sort of get why people sort of want to go…piss off losers.. rather than well done we won. And you only have to read NZ sports writers after an All Black win. You know the headlines “All Blacks sends woeful Lions home with tail….”etc However it is just another example of how sport has changed. We used to celebrate not just ours but also others success. Now we just participate.
Very telling was the post match interviews…Mortlock said “I lost us the game and we were not good enough to beat England. They outplayed us…”
Richie:” I am proud of the boys and honored to play with them…”
It tells you everything about how we bring our children up now. The Aussie goes we need to do better and I accept my responsibility…”
The kiwi wants to hug and have a lovefest because they participated heaven forbid that they kept score.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:55 am
Video reffing, especially the run up to points scored, is inevitable.
Pretending it doesn’t matter for continuities sake was fine before mill dollar careers and multi mill TV revenues depended on teams progressing.
Whether you like it or not business will simply not accept a revenue disaster like this that wasn’t necessary, for much longer.
The IRB will eventually simply be told.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:56 am
Is it reasonable to expect all the matches in the knock out stage of the competition to be refereed by say the top 10 refs? where would Barnes be ranked?
October 18th, 2007 at 11:02 am
Tom, sorry still dont buy the ref bullshit. Point one. most of the players are younger than the ref. And they make mistakes all the time. That is why you have scrums and line-outs and penalties. And these are the top athletes. The ref was chosen well in advance and he was never picked for another game this cup, not as NZ media want you to believe, because of his performance, but because the combinations was set in stone. If performance was a criteria, what the hell is Honis doing in the finals? He’s refing had a far greater influence on the SA Samoa game, because it was consistently bad and the lesser experienced team bore the brunt of his bad decisions. But I have played rep rugby and we always trained and were aware of how to deal with the ref.
And as far as the states are concerned, you are right but only to a point. I spent a lot of time there, and fans would lambast the ref during a game, but after the final whistle, the loss is always attributed to the team.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:09 am
Agreed, although I rate the British press far worse. Stephen Jones makes me ashamed to be welsh.
And on that, I grew up at a time when the Welsh were far more competitive than they are now, and I can confirm that the welsh team were never, ever, beaten by fair means. It’s not exclusive to kiwis.
But didn’t McCaw confess that they were beaten by the better team?
That would suggest that those scheduling the refs knew in advance who would make it to the finals. An interesting theory.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:14 am
Tina, In europe no-one cares that the All Blacks are not there. And we only make up a small market here. Please understand that only in NZ do people believe that it was a substandard ref job. Everywhere else they were well impressed with his reffing. The reason you read about say a french man saying something about it, is because he is asked by a kiwi journo. I spoke to a mate who lives in the UK now and an ex Springbok, and according to him the kiwis are well forgotten as are the aussies. As would have been the South Africans if we were kicked out in the quarters.
IIlew they have a number of combinations (There is only a limited number of possible finalist with a little covered needed for surprises such as the argies) for the finals.
Also as a welshman you would remember how Haiden “fell”out of the line-out to win against you lot. He still admits that it was cheeky and a bit of a cheat, but he was playing the ref.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:18 am
Illew
or to explain it perhaps better
Because the pool games are set and nations can only advance in one side of a draw, it makes for only a limited number of combinations. For instance in this case England could never have ended in our Quarters so NZ was always going to have a ref from nations in the other side of the draw. so not really that hard to set up.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:19 am
How we howled at the time! Just another last minute breach of the rules costing the team their long overdue win against the ABs. Kiwis will tell you that that lineout jump was irrelevant, and that the penalty was for something else.
HAH!
October 18th, 2007 at 11:21 am
Oh – and thanks for the clarification.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:30 am
“Tom, sorry still dont buy the ref bullshit.”
The “bullshit” that he lost us the game? ME NIETHER. I did not bitch about the ref after the ’99 or ’03 SF’s.
But the point of this post was the ref – and he was shite and I would have been questioning what the hell he was doing there even had we won. I had similar things to say about Paddy’s awful performance in the ’99 French-Fuji QF and I had no stake in that game aside from my usual support for an underdog.
“….were aware of how to deal with the ref.
Yep – always part of the game and as I said earlier that was another of our failures, which is why we have had such a love-hate relationship with Gregan. We certainly needed a yapping, needling little bugger like that in the AB’s but don’t seem to be producing them.
“not as NZ media want you to believe”
You are talking to a right-winger here you know. The day I start giving any credence to a NZ journalist, especially a sports journo like Rattue, will be the day I stop reading blog sites like this. Morons to a man and you are absolutely correct about their contribution (along with the advertisers and the NZRFU) to the tag of the AB’s being arrogant.
Just a last comment on that “arrogant” tag. In 1992/93 the crowing of Springbok supporters in London (and I would imagine everywhere else) that world rugby would revert to its proper condition now that the Boks had returned, was so bad that every single AB supporter I knew, fully supported, for probably the only time in their lives, the World Cup Champion Wallabies against the Boks. Two or three years of arse kicking at the hands of the Wallabies and the AB’s certainly cured that attitude – at least until the ’95 final.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:38 am
Tom I apologize for sounding so harsh but I am afraid it has been the last 12 years of being told that everyone else is shit and the all blacks play the only decent rugby.
Sorry but the ref was not that bad (compared to honis) Again only the NZ public has called his performance into question. every one else thought he did a great job.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:47 am
Bok
Fair enough. Being exposed to 12 years of the “brand” bullshit we’ve had in the professional era gets on my goat as well. I can see why you’d unload.
Anyway, I hope to God your boys win. The thought of the English plonkers lording it even for six months would be just too much to bear.
Besides – I want your World Champion’s scalp in the ’08 Tri-Nations!!!!!!!!!!
October 18th, 2007 at 11:47 am
Bok…true re public sentiment…. but what you don’t quite understand maybe is that unless the game is won or lost on team merits it becomes a “bad faith” investment opportunity.
When big money is involved amateur structures will be replaced.
Consider if a call shown to be obviously false on TV decided match point at Wimbledon, completely unacceptable to sponsors, no matter what nationalities were involved….what the spectators think doesn’t matter much even if their favourite falsely won.
Tennis could no more go on pretending than Rugby can which is why video challenges were introduced.
Can you imagine a Super Bowl final being decided by an umpiring call because although TV shows no touchdown it’s deemed necessary to pretend the umpire is correct?
There would be a riot.
Automatic video review of all points scored finals is at most 2 WC away. IMHO.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
Sorry to to try to move on to something else but I think it is of note that Taito Field seems to be having a very well planned judicial process.
The reasons for the delay seem some what strange. I guess the Leader and some of her cohorts (Goff, O’Connor etc) will be right pleased that it is unlikely to now be headlines until after the election.
Goodness how slowly the wheels of justice turn for some.
October 18th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
cubit9f I agree with you In fact I go one step further and say that the PM told the judicary that she didnt want to see the case in Court until after the election.
Can you imagine having El Jeffes brief dragging her and other Socialists Ministers into Court where they would have to do the unthinkable for them and tell the truth or just do the natural and lie.
Can you imagine the questions El Jeffes brief would ask them. Even their dumbest supporters would be gob smacked when all the dirty dirty Socialists laundery wqas aired in public.
Alas we will have to wait unti the PM and her cronies are on the oppostion benches before the Court case if tehre is one.
October 18th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
kk,,
your comment on F! rules applying to Rugby struck me as the most intriguing on this thread.
How ever, that implies a ‘B’ team for the minor teams and I’m not sure if its a realistic scenario. The AB’s actually looked shaky against the minors as if they were holding something back. Unfortunately that was not the reality. The AB’s weren’t practicing against the minors, they were playing Rugby. After the first two matches I knew there was no WC coming back to NZ. In fact, I don’t believe there will be a WC won in NZ.
as I have stated, when the AB’s play England again, they will probably win.
England will giggle together over their wounds. With WC or no WC
October 18th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
At the end of the day as with many sports you play the whole game, that includes the ref. ‘
Just because it starts raining or hailing (or fills with fog like chch not long ago) the teams still play.
Sure the ref was pretty bad but I feel the All Blacks did well not to blame him as I feel they know that its just part of the game…
Having said that, a young ref in a game with the Top seeds versus the host nation, not exactly pressure free.
October 18th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Was Tama Iti going to call a mock’coup’ in the North to embarrass Helen Clark at the Pacific Forum?
Was Helen told beforehand and decided to mop up the whole community of vipers that dared to oppose her?
Was it the first step in a long-running saga to tar The Maori Party with the ‘Tama Iti is a terrorist’ brush and demonise them like they’ve tried to demonise National over the EB?
Is Labour out of control?
Or are the police just stupid?
Tune in next week…
October 18th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
well,,
if everything the police and govt say is true, they have all the ringleaders and all the trouble makers have been dealt with,,
umm,, not if the Maori party have their way,,
and no Helen, you can’t arrest democratic speech, and you can’t stop parliamentary privilige in the house.
This attempt to look competent coming to election year could well have a way of back firing. The local body elections certainly put egg on the socialists faces.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
So, the answer is lock up anyone who might be a threat?
October 18th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
obviously,,
look for more prisons on the landscape
shall we say,,
detention camps,, mostly for NZ born citizens who know
October 18th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
does that still sound a little premature ??
October 18th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Ha terrorist!
You is busted.
I was tracking your email. Expect someone banging on the door very soon….
And it won’t be the Avon Lady.
Hinamanu.
If that is your real name.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Is it a daft question to ask where the National Party stand on this recent spate of arrests?
October 18th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
lol, lol, lol
as I’ve stated hinamanu are two characters in my novel
you don’t need to track ma emails, just find me in the library
But you do remind me of nazi surveillance operating in our fair land
informers and spies and govt toadies
wheres D4J when you need him,, he’s far better at vocalising thses things
I got no imagination for matching empty rhetoric
October 18th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Any doubt at all the Maori were the main target of Monday’s raids has gone out the window – see this:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10470602
The money quote:
“The Herald has been told the officers were ordered to speak in Maori after Prime Minister Helen Clark was briefed about the raids.
A police spokeswoman said there was no policy in place for officers on the raid to speak Maori.”
Tumeke!
October 18th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
more on the so called tax cuts in aussie, interesting angle and implies labor won’t be drawn into an auction
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/10/17/1192300855733.html
October 18th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
A more expereinced referee would not have allowed the French side to gain ascendency with the continual transgression of the laws, and would have had the courage, and expereince, to award a penalty in the last few minutes when it was needed and deserved.
I am quite certain that Wayne Barbes himself, if he is a truly honest and honourable man, would be ashamed of hios performance, and is fully aware that although it possibly did not completely cost the match for the AB’s, it was a MAJOR contributing factor.
Notwithstanding that, we should have put them away long before half time!
October 18th, 2007 at 6:49 pm
Fuck the rugby, time for patriotic SF geeks everywhere to have multiple geek-gasms:
[Source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3id8e5364152f5fc45f22c9f376098ef3b
If nothing else, it’s got to be better – and do more for Urban’s career – than ‘Chronicles of Riddick’…
October 18th, 2007 at 10:19 pm
The refereeing should not have been as significant as it was.
Otherwise we were unlucky with injuries.
The only meaningful issue now, is how to avoid the AB’s playing in those grey tee-shirtts again (I prefer an alternate strip of black and white hoops) and learning from our own mistakes.
1. those that occured in 99 and again in 2007 are the most troubling.
Not having an impact forward on the bench (Lauaki was available once the suspension was overturned – the missing player in 99 was Isitolo Maka) and the poor second half tactics.
KO Cup games are like Shield games. The team leading is the defender, and should make the other team play catch up. You play field position (seek turnover ball from lineouts and suffocate them with rucks in their 22). Instead, as in 99, we tried to play showy, foot on the peddle rugby – allowing the other team to feed off turnovers AND get back into the game.
This leads to the second error.
2. The arrogance that leads in attempts to score tries to win games rather than maufacture the drop goal attempt (we seem to have no focus on an ability to resort to the old standard of Sheid defence rugby – Hawkes Bay once specialised in it).
This leads to the strategic error.
3. FFS – the modern international game is defence orientated, as anyone watching England win playing the least rugby. It’s like WW1 trench warfare – to advance into defended positions is to be mown down. SA scored all 4 of their tries against Argentina off mistakes/turnovers.
Maybe if rules change – 5 yards back from the ruck are mooted this may change. Maybe it won’t.
So why the AB’s thought they could win it all playing attacking rugby is beyond me.
Finally a question – after the first game – all those tries from kicks behind the Italy line, why did no one consider this tactic during the QF?
October 19th, 2007 at 11:37 am
http://www.heretohelp.co.nz/
Looks like a great movie and possibly a good counterpoint to “The Hollow Men”
October 19th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
I see the media are breathlessly reporting ‘mass demonstrations’ against the police raids with school children performing a haka.
So what exactly is this teaching these children?
1. Jump to conclusions
2. Ignore facts
3. Blame the state
4. No such thing as personal responsiblity
Excellent messages to be sending to youth…