Moderators
As I have mentioned previously, it has been a long time since I’ve had the time to read all comments myself. Luckily some good people have offered to help me with the moderation. So they are not totally anonymous, I’m posting a short sentence on each. None of them post comments themselves a lot, but have been long-term readers.
Richard is a thirty something year old mainlander. Into fitness. Supports Binding CIRs.
David is a retired vet, a (very briefly) former PSA rep, who once voted for Winston. We forgive him this lapse 
)
Jordan is a student, is involved with National, and pretty good with computers and other things.
Ray is a retired farmer, a “liberal” who has voted for every party there is (no, no not Social Credit I hope ). Another mainlander.
We did have un-PC Lesbian as the fifth moderator but she got busy. A real pity, because apart from her fine sense of humour and judgement, we would have been extremely politically correct with both a gay and a lesbian as moderators!
The moderators have been discussing stuff on our mail list. It may help people for me to share what I posted:
Hard and fast rules are never going to work, as it is always a judgement call. I suggest we use this list to discuss actual potentially offending comments, and see what consensus we get on them. Sometimes one has to look at the context. Also I look at the person – are they someone who started off making genuinely good points, and they just got abusive when someone taunted them, or are they just a troll whose only purpose is to enrage people so the comments become unreadable.
I tend to regard the C word as never acceptable, except in the most extreme circumstances. The F word doesn’t worry me a lot but I tend to agree if directed at someone it is probably over the top. But there is a difference between say someone referring to effing idiots and calling someone directly a f**kwit.
I don’t like homophobic stuff, and have warned a few people about it. I also really really dislike anything speculating on an MP’s sexuality or their family. Ie the Peter Davis is gay nonsense.
One should also refer to the the Posting Policy. It may get more detailed in time to come.
As I am a believer in second (and third) chances, I am also going to reset everyone’s ban periods back to the start. If currently banned you need to see out the period of the ban, but after that the clock goes back to zero, so any further suspension will be for one week only, and then doubling each time there after.
If there are any complaints, I refer people to the first paragraph of the Posting Policy
October 12th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
The F word doesn’t worry me a lot but I tend to agree if directed at someone it is probably over the top. But there is a difference between say someone referring to effing idiots and calling someone directly a f**kwit.
This might pose some trouble for Redbaiter
October 12th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
But what if they really are a f**kwit ?
October 12th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
This is a major step forward. Now, if you could just bar anyone I disagree with.. (I will mark them with an asterisk, thus: ‘sonic*’)
October 12th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
I don’t understand the apparent need to hide their posting identities. Why can’t readers know who these moderators are in the context of this blog? What’s the problem?
[DPF: You will know their posting identities. They'll use them if performing moderation duties. But most of them hardly ever post at all. I'm not even sure what all their usernames are, but maybe they can each post a comment here so you can see their identity.]
October 12th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
I’s David;s blog, he can do as he wants. If his moderators want to be private, and he trusts them then fine with me.
I also note the slight irony of an anon poster wanting to remove that privilege from moderators…
October 12th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
“We did have un-PC Lesbian as the fifth moderator but she got busy.”
DPF any pics of this?
sorry.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Hey Redbaiter (and everyone else too!).
I am the “30 something” Richard from Christchurch (thanks DPF – let’s keep that description, gives me a “TV sitcom” feel about it)
I am ok with being totally open about who I am – so here’s my web site
http://www.richardbeddie.co.nz Anything more – just ask
October 12th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
David, will you please ensure that moderators indicate and act on people who post on multiple aliases. There’s a certain fellow here with a number of very , obvious , , aliases that offers a fair distraction on the discussions.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
Maybe you could have a yellow card system for threadjacking and descent into mindless repetitive personal insults and wind ups. 3 cards and you’re sinbinned for the rest of the day.
PS there is a 28 yo lawyer from the UK that could be interested as he currently has time on his hands and limited prospects but some strong experience with the card system and mediating in major struggles. Can be erratic though.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
****.
(Just testing).
[Richard - Test worked. Word removed
]
October 12th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Thanks DPF Hopefully the moderators will protect me from the likes of Sonic Roger and the others who bully me (only kidding)
October 12th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Pascal, personally I wouldn’t waste time chasing it. If they want to be an idiot, they are free to be so. If any of their identities become disruptive they will presumably be moderated, but I’m not sure what is inherently wrong with multiple aliases. I wouldn’t do it myself, but maybe those involved have multiple personalities?
October 12th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
will you be able to monitor 24/7?
October 12th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
“I am ok with being totally open about who I am – so here’s my web site”
Thanks Richard.. most impressive. I’m a bit worried tho about the focus on “wellness” in your Health Board polcies. You’re not angling to have everyone on treadmills, doing yoga and eating bean sprouts are you?
October 12th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
you see that is the first time i have ever seen redbaiter be civil. this really could work!
October 12th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
“personally I wouldn’t waste time chasing it.”
Hahah.. of course not. Wouldn’t want a red face after all those protestations would you?
October 12th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
I apologize for hijacking this thread but…
Has anyone else noticed the posters of John Key littered around Wellington CDB, with quotes from him on privatisation? More to the point, does anyone know why these are up, or whose behind them?
[Hoolian - while well intentioned, I really would rather people don't hijack threads. I know people do like though to discuss general stuff. Would it help if every morning I posted a general "Today's Discussion" post which people could comment on anything under - sort of the like the misc category?]
October 12th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
so which one is the gay one?
October 12th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
Would be interesting to see where the moderators lye on the political compass test – I’m suspecting that there’s going to be a strong right-wing bias here.
BTW DPF
“Ray is a retired farmer, a “liberal” who has voted for every party there is”
If your talking just “party vote” i don’t think that’s mathematically possible – surely?
October 12th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
RedBaiter, no red face likely. Never have had multiple identities. Maybe there is a different approach – those who say they don’t have multiple identities are free to ask the moderators to confirm that fact? If so, then the moderators can confirm that. I’ve never heard anybody but you accuse me of that, but hey, if it rocks your boat I can get it confirmed.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
PaulL: I’m not sure what is inherently wrong with multiple aliases.
Maybe I just get creeped out everytime I see D4J having a conversation , , with , himself.
/waves at Richard. Welcome, and congratulations on having the unenviable position of moderating this unruly bunch of political blabbermouths.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
ManukauMum – it’s like the 1st week of Survivor, you have to figure it out
*Flaps his wrists*
October 12th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
roger nome: Would be interesting to see where the moderators lye on the political compass test
#1. Where would you like me to be on the Political Compass test? I can take that test now and score as the Libertarian Left or the Authoritarian Right. Anyone with the IQ of a box of cat litter or greater can.
#2. Behavior is separate from political slant. Are you saying you would not trust somebody who might have a more right wing viewpoint to moderate fairly? A fairly ballsy accusation, if that is what you are making.
#3. You have noticed this is a right wing site, eh?
#4. Afraid you might see your Wikipedia quotes / mistaken assumptions challenged for a change? Oh go on, quote something from Hollow Men. I know you want to
[Note, smiley face indicates humour]
roger: If your talking just “party vote” i don’t think that’s mathematically possible – surely?
It’s a Friday afternoon Roger. Relax. You don’t have to score points off everything written.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Pascal – Thanks.
PS: This post now ranks as my most prolific for making comments on
October 12th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
ManukauMum,
Apart from idle curiosity, what difference does it make?
October 12th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
I wondered who would be the first whiner:roll: Nice work wikiboy.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
I’m interested in how this will work out. I presume starting with a bias towards a very light hand until you get the hang of it? I think its a great initiative, so looking forward to ending up with a more civil and more clearly written site.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
“It’s a Friday afternoon Roger. Relax. You don’t have to score points off everything written.”
Gotta love that unintended irony Pascal.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
I’m not the ex vet BTW
October 12th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Moderation should be a piece of cake to someone accomplished at cutting the nuts off living, breathing, red-blooded males.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
“I can take that test now and score as the Libertarian Left or the Authoritarian”
yeah – was assuming a certain degree of honesty on the part of the right there – silly me
“Behavior is separate from political slant.”
Yes but surely political slant influences the way we view comments – I think David has even said that it would be preferable to have a left-right ballance because of this.
“You have noticed this is a right wing site, eh?”
Fair call – It would be David’s prerogative to have biased and unfair moderation if he wished it.
oh yeah and wikipedia – a worthless resource I know, no matter what the sources of the articles are. Reality does have a left-wing bias after all
October 12th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
Moderation should be a piece of cake to someone accomplished at cutting the nuts off living, breathing, red-blooded males.
Miaou
October 12th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
Is this more like survivor or more like one of the logic puzzles where you have to guess who owns the Alsatian?
October 12th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
It’s a good idea to choose moderators who are not particularly active in posting. They themselves don’t end up targets, and can judge impartially whether robust debate has slid into pointless abuse.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
roger nome: Would be interesting to see where the moderators lye on the political compass test
Good timing for that question, coz I did it today in case anyone asked. I came out almost in the middle for left/right (+1 to the right) but very liberal on social scale (-5 or so). I have voted for both national and labour (party vote that is) in the last 2 elections (and even voted for both, between my party/local MP vote last time). Not that I think who I voted for matters, but I don’t mind discussing it. I would probably vote greens for sure if they just stopped trying to ban everything, and stuck to the important stuff.
Oh .. the only one I don’t think I would ever vote for would be Winnie (need I say more?
)
October 12th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Thanks Richard.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
ManakauMum – well I own an Alsatian too, but I prefer the name ‘German Shepard”
Ben W – I agree and will shut up after this thread finishes
October 12th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
heh, I wasn’t suggesting that! But I guess in your last comment you could be considered to have been trolling Cadmus.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Redbaiter: Thanks Richard.. most impressive. I’m a bit worried tho about the focus on “wellness” in your Health Board polcies. You’re not angling to have everyone on treadmills, doing yoga and eating bean sprouts are you?
Don’t worry I ain’t a “food nazi”. (I believe in chocolate, wine and coffee too!). It’s just the whole preventative vs treatment thing (so much is costly treatment is avoidable).
Careful … you will get me on my favourite topic, and then I will accidentally hijack the thread
October 12th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
roger nome: Gotta love that unintended irony
I thought so too, glad you picked up on it
The main point with indicating that Political Compass is, that even were the results presented you had no way of knowing how accurate it was.
At some stage trust has to come into it.
Thus, trust DPF to pick people who will do the job properly, as he has a lot invested in this site and doing a poor job of picking moderators would have a negative impact on it.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Moderators , oh well , such is life ned , no abusing people Peter and remember to tell the mob who they all are , only joking team , good luck and I am disappointed you didn’t choose me Sir David .
October 12th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
Has anyone else noticed the posters of John Key littered around Wellington CDB, with quotes from him on privatisation? More to the point, does anyone know why these are up, or whose behind them?
(Sorry not wanting to threadjack)
Ive heard about the posters – IIRC, shouldnt they have the name and address of the organisation responsible printed on them, otherwise they would be illegal wouldnt they – or is it only illegal if the EB do it?
October 12th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
roger nome said “Would be interesting to see where the moderators lye on the political compass test- I’m suspecting that there’s going to be a strong right-wing bias here.”
For goodness sake roger nome – what else would you expect? DPF is hardly going to invite Tane, Sam, Sonic, Selma and yourself to moderate for him is he now? BTW, has anyone seen or heard from Selma lately?
October 12th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
“or is it only illegal if the EB do it?”
Oh no – the EB did provide some initials and a PO Box number. Not very helpful when it comes to identifying the person/organization though. In fact the EB were only caught out when an ex-church member recognized the initials.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
Bevan , I think you could safely say a deranged liarbour looser is behind the smear tactics employed by weirdos on the governments payroll , work at night alongside the gutter cleaners . Slippery hollow head bastards – the whole lot of them.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
“Tane, Sam, Sonic, Selma and yourself to moderate”
Now there’s a “dream team” if ever I saw one – actually you left out philwhoar and robinsod
October 12th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
“It’s just the whole preventative vs treatment thing (so much is costly treatment is avoidable.”
If the government kept out of health, this would be the logical outcome. Reality is what will induce people to take care of their health. The socialist idea that they will be cared for by the state regardless of cost and circumstance is the delusion that makes people careless concerning their health.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
“Oh no – the EB did provide some initials and a PO Box number. Not very helpful when it comes to identifying the person/organization though. In fact the EB were only caught out when an ex-church member recognized the initials.”
That is a lie. (another one) The EB’s were fully identified. Smearing. Propaganda. Its all the cowardly left ever have.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Dear roger nome , do you get stoned on the glue while putting up countless communist posters all around New Zealand ?
I mean glue sniffing is substance abuse !!
October 12th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Good questions Bevan. Watch for the leftist hypocrisy meter to go off the scale.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
I think DPF has been extremely fair in his choice of moderators Now if Russell B had been choosing moderators no one even anywhere near the centre would have stood a change in hell.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
“That is a lie. (another one) The EB’s were fully identified.”
Got a reference for that RB? Thought not.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
gd, unfortunately Russel Brown finds me “scary ”
Oh pretty please let me post on the Paris Hilton blog snog Mr Brown – said Mr Pink ?
October 12th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
“That is a lie. (another one) The EB’s were fully identified.”
Got a reference for that RB? Thought not.
Sonic?
October 12th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Lee C, if the “c” word is banned you can take it as read that any “busy” pics will be banned as well, no need to explain more…..
October 12th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Bevan: Ive heard about the posters – IIRC, shouldnt they have the name and address of the organisation responsible printed on them, otherwise they would be illegal wouldnt they – or is it only illegal if the EB do it?
If I’m not mistaken that only applies during the election period, does it not? And as of next year it will be a lot more difficult for the humour Labour and their supporters posts around to appear.
Unless of course it’s Unions communicating with their members by influencing votes. Or the government putting up whatever they like.
But that’s the way of dict … democracies. I think
October 12th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
poo?
October 12th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
“I think DPF has been extremely fair in his choice of moderators Now if Russell B had been choosing moderators no one even anywhere near the centre would have stood a change in hell.”
Mostly agree with your comments GD, but can’t do so here. The left already control far too much. IMHO giving them control of Kiwiblog, one of the few effective outlets for non-leftist views anywhere, would be a big mistake.
The view that some kind of compromise is necessary just to show the right are “decent and fair minded (or whatever)” people is a misjudgment the left have capitalized on for two or three decades. There’s only one way to deal with leftists, and that’s to crush them like the cockroaches they are. Mind you, the moderators may not be leftists. Give them a chance.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
unpclesbain , cool really , not pc , not even 1% ?
October 12th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
RogerNome: Got a reference for that RB? Thought not.
Roger raises a very interesting point. Labour says variously (depending on what they think they can get away with) that the EBs spent $400k, $1m or $3m, yet no-one except Jeanette Fitzsimmons seems to have ever seen one of these fucking pamphlets.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
“yet no-one except Jeanette Fitzsimmons seems to have ever seen one of these fucking pamphlets.”
My flat was sent one.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
Can you post the content?
October 12th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Roger Rabbit skuttled along the shelter belt into a pissed off cocky with a frenziedly pump action welcoming committee for bugs bunny. They had fun and all the carcass got thrown into the offal pit and then the lads got pissed .
October 12th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Anyone remember how the theme to the Twilight Zone went?
October 12th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Billy
http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/other9192.html
October 12th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
“Got a reference for that RB? Thought not.”
The Police. They’re in Klark’s pocket yet they didn’t charge them.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Billy the kid was a hero and roger just a rabbit .
October 12th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
““Got a reference for that RB? Thought not.”
The Police.”
So no reference then? Ok.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
Excuse me roger everybody knows Helen Clark has the dream police in her back pocket , ouch !! Sorry, but the corruption must stop now !!
October 12th, 2007 at 3:52 pm
there some funny shit in this thread…
sam says poo
daddy4 just ice is excited about an unpc les.
roger nome lives in a flat
someone else suggests meeting up at the pub (well i tried that yesterday and nobody was there!)
…
must be something in the air this luscious friday afternoon.
as for the topic. moderators? moderators? My own take on that old hoarbag about moderation is “everything in moderation, including moderation”.
have a good weekend ya bunch of silly sausages
October 12th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
Roger, it’s interesting to note that the section containing the person who authorised it’s name is cut off in their scanned images.
It starts off saying Authorised by Stephen Win (Wix?) and the very next sentence has it’s words chopped off.
Do you have a version that doesn’t have the very section we are discussing lopped off?
It is also interesting to note that the section referring to Labour does not actually attack Labour, it merely highlights why the Greens are less than Green for actually operating in a coalition with Labour who seem to have a lack of spine with regards to the environment.
Yeah, signed Kyoto and all that but have delivered preciously little in terms of targets and real measures on the environment. Until what, yesterday?
October 12th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Add: I was hoping the PDF would shed some light on it, but it seems to be the first line of an address. The rest are still chopped off.
Unfortunately, I received the pamphlet at the election, looked at it and thought it was a bit of Green party propaganda so tossed it in the rubbish bin
Guess they were *real* successful in our household.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
“So no reference then? Ok”.
Halfwit. Its all over almost every extreme left NZ site out there- Frogblog for instance-
“Jeanette drove to Auckland this afternoon to confront the person who authorised the smear leaflet. Stephen Win of Favona Road, Mangere authorised the leaflet, so Jeanette decided that she’d go to knock on his door to see what he had to say for himself.”
Couldn’t have been hidden too well if that idiot Fitzsimmons tracked him down. Imagine how much carbon she added to the atmosphere on that wasted journey.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Pascal:
“Stephen Myles Win, who authorised the ‘Green Delusion’ pamphlet and co-authored a Concerned Christians letter along with his wife Mary and Milton and Michelle How, and J Hawkins, authoriser of the anti-Labour health pamphlet are all listed in the Exclusive Brethren’s confidential address book”
http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR9224.html
October 12th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
“Jeanette drove to Auckland this afternoon to confront the person who authorised the smear leaflet. Stephen Win of Favona Road, Mangere authorised the leaflet, so Jeanette decided that she’d go to knock on his door to see what he had to say for himself.”
This was only after an ex member pointed out that win and the others were EBs.
Also – why don’t you supply the link to your quote? Does it include other things, you don’t want us to read?
October 12th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
I spotted on my trusty binoculars some red eyed – rope head – green party propaganda – delinquent gang members attempting to put crap into my rural mail box , so me and seven neighbors set the dogs onto the drugged up fools . They ripped them to shreds and into the offal pit they all went right on top of all the roger rabbits and silly philly wombats.
October 12th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
“The Green Party’s own inquiries confirmed the identities of five people listed on the smear pamphlets as Exclusive Brethren. ”
From the Herald-
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10344402
Quote-
“Oh no – the EB did provide some initials and a PO Box number. Not very helpful when it comes to identifying the person/organization though. In fact the EB were only caught out when an ex-church member recognized the initials.”
Unquote
I reckon the fact that you’re a liar Gnome has been well and truly proved. In fact you’ve helped do it yourself you absolute moron. Haw haw.
October 12th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Is is just me or has this thread gone way off topic, as usual?
October 12th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Thanks Roger, that doesn’t explain why the name and address details are chopped off in their scan. Your link does make for funny reading though. One can see where the current lies surrounding the Exclusive Brethren found their fertile soil.
It call came from the Green Party, off that very link you provided.
http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR9224.html
If you can, ZenTiger (The moderate voice of that fruitbattery that was Sir Humphreys) did a very decent analysis of the pamphlet and found that all the points they raised bar one had a basis in truth based on the Green Party policies.
Jeanette calling it a smear is simply a deflection off their own flawed policies. And I see she works in how “unchristian” their lies are and manages to tie in George Bush too.
It’s all so fucking emo I could just cry
Essentially, the Green party demonizing a religious group for daring to speak out against their policies. Even were it on a global scale! This has gotten to the point where the lies are now so often repeated they’ve become truth.
The EB colluded with National.
They tried to support George Bush.
Their pamphlet contained only lies.
All good spin, working in all the elements that makes it an easier pill for a person of a more Leftist slant to swallow. Note, George Bush. Church based religious “sect”. Conspiracy. The National Party.
It’s a very well put together press release, you have to admit. JF and the Greens did well with it to lay the foundation for a few years of lies and half truths and now, it’s crowning glory, the EFB.
October 12th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
i’m with vto. this is the oddest thread in weeks. it’s like school kids trying suck up to a new headmaster (ie moderators) while being just a little bit cheeky (but more polite than before)… so as to scope new boundaries. very entertaining.
October 12th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
“The Green Party’s own inquiries confirmed the identities of five people listed on the smear pamphlets as Exclusive Brethren.”
Yes – the ex EB church member went to the greens with the information. So what’s your point?
There was also an anti-labor health pamphlet produced by the Bretheren – perhaps this is the one that only included the initials – not too sure though – it was 2 years ago after all.
October 12th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
hey manukaumummy you cant get a word in edge-wise when they get like this. all quite sort of amusing.
but d4j’s offal pit addition had me in stitches! ha ha ha
and krazykiwi, well put. its definitely a friday afternoon
October 12th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
VTO – very true (well spotted KK).
Now it’s just off topic
October 12th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
D4J is 100% troll and should be banned forthwith and immediately
when the cat was away that rat played up big time and bought this entire blog to denigration. some people need encouraging, he’s just bad.
compare him to redbaiter. To some red is insidiously evil and calculating
but in context and between the lines his arguments are intelligent.
We don’t have to agree with everything he says, or maybe nothing, but the man provokes discussion that raises relevant discussion.
This is the entire opposite of D4J. He says absolutely nothing.
I hope this moderation stance comes as a warning to him.
He is puerile, childish and utterly self centred and brings 100% crap to this forum.
considering the amount of time and content he’s put in here I have already suggested he is related to DPF. how else could someone with the IQ of an insect have lived this long.
In fact since we are going to have stronger moderation here I suggest a thread for those to sign for D4J’s removal. I mean he’s so obvious he’s even recognised when he signs in under aliases.
A squirrel once said something bout that
” Who would do that ?”
October 12th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
“This has gotten to the point where the lies are now so often repeated they’ve become truth.
The EB colluded with National.”
Yes – Don Brash originally lied (he “couldn’t remember meeting people about a prospective $1.2 million campaign!) about meeting with them – he then back- tracked and admitted to meeting with them about the campaign.
”
“This morning, Don Brash admitted on radio that the Exclusive Brethren had told him in advance about their anti-Green and anti-Labour leaflets,” Ms Fitzsimons says.
“However, this directly contradicts several statements by Dr Brash and his deputy Gerry Brownlee over several days that they knew nothing whatsoever about the leaflets.”
On at least three occasions, National representatives have been quoted as saying they knew nothing about the pamphlets before their distribution. (Quotes attached.)
“It’s difficult to escape the conclusion that, ever since the leaflet story blew up on Saturday, Don Brash and Gerry Brownlee have sought to conceal the extent of their involvement with the seven Exclusive Brethren seven, and their group of financial backers, and their knowledge of the pamphlets before publication. ”
http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR9231.html
October 12th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
come on hinamanu, spit it out man. stop sitting on the fence and say what you really mean
October 12th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Umm,, are you trying to get me kicked kk ??
October 12th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
“If you can, ZenTiger (The moderate voice of that fruitbattery that was Sir Humphreys) did a very decent analysis of the pamphlet and found that all the points they raised bar one had a basis in truth based on the Green Party policies.”
So a right winger, decided that they disagreed with the analysis of a left wing organization. My opinion is that the conclusions of the pamphlets are BS – i.e. they state that the green’s policies wouldn’t protect the environment, that they are economically unsustainable and socially destructive – that’s opinion – hardly factual.
October 12th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
Someone has started the Election Countdown Clock.
The previously successful strategy of demonising the EBs has been dusted off, given a quick facelift and trotted back out here and at other places (eg the [low] standard)
October 12th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
I feel I must apologize. I called Dr Cullen the C word the other day,but I was realy realy angry about the size of the surplus and the C#nt wont give it back!
October 12th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Dale,,
I think he’s got a pretty thick skin
the kind of krupp steel skin hitler demanded of his military
October 12th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
David, too little too late.
October 12th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
Don Brash did not lie. That’s another cowardly smear.
October 12th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Roger Nome: In the same way that Winston Peters’s office never received any communication about the ferrying of troops destined for Iraq to Kuwait?
I’ll try to paint this in a different light to you, so you’re not simply reading the Green Party (The accused)’s slant on it. It does seem a bit like you’re the sheep asking the wolf what’s for dinner
Don Brash as both a businessman and leader of a resurgent National Party, arguably the second most powerful political party in New Zealand, likely receives a fair amount of email during any given day.
I know I am but a lowly software developer and I receive between 200 and 300 non spam emails a day (on average).
Don Brash receives this email, reads it and forwards it on to his campaign managers and people he trusts. After all, they are the people who have to juggle numbers and so forth, and if this group’s campaign can be counted against their expenditure then surely they should put a stop to it?
The story breaks and in one of those moments where you just plain don’t remember, fuckit, you say the wrong thing. I had it happen to myself in a job interview – stuff I’ve been working on for 10 years and I just plainly could not remember even something as basic as operator presedence. I walked out of there feeling like a total idiot and when I spoke to my recruitment consultant afterwards, told him about it.
It could very well have been a similar situation and after that initial mistake – which could very well have been the very human error of being forgetful – the shit had truely struck the fan.
I’m not saying that is the way it did play out, but that is the way it seems to be to me. Given that the EB were not 100% wrong, but only about 5% wrong in their analysis of the Green Party policy. And given that the majority of the beat up came from the Green Party. And given that the direct benefit of this was to all parties except Green. And given … well.
Just plain logic. I know it seems easy to see a conspiracy in it all. It’s tempting to want to believe that there is a massive underhand right wing think tank attempting to subert the course of action in New Zealand…
On the other hand. It’s just as reasonable that an old man was showing the first symptoms of his age, in a position he was not entirely suited for and his campaign managers tried to cover for him.
And that this “vast and sinister cult” was actually just trying to accomplish two things.
1. Express their political opinion.
2. Ensure that they do not get accidentally attributed to the one party people would perceive them to be allied with.
You know, if I were to look for true evil in the world, I’d be looking a lot closer to the party who:
1. Ignored the Chief Electoral’ Officer’s warnings
2. Negated on their promise to include it in their spendings
3. Overspent by what was it … 47% in the last election
4. Refused to pay the money back until the public pressured them into it
5. Introduced retrospective legislation to legalize their corrupt actions
6. Are now introducing a bill to restrict speech for all non government agencies in an election year that has been critized by the Law Society and the Human Rights society as being unworkable and untenable.
Really, I think the time has come to actually acknowledge that the Exclusive Brethren, be they misguided or actually an evil poodle barking in the background, pales in comparison to the subversion of our nation’s democratic process that is happening in Parliament at the moment.
Can you find any flaw in what the Labour party did in the last election and what they have done since?
October 12th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Roger: So a right winger, decided that they disagreed with the analysis of a left wing organization.
Fair is fair, you expected me to read Hagar’s portrayal of events.
I am asking you to investigate and read Zentiger’s analysis and to see how it stacks up.
You claim to be open and balanced. Are you?
October 12th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
Pascal said:
Absolutely A+ !!
October 12th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
“And that this “vast and sinister cult”
Who are you quoting?
“The story breaks and in one of those moments where you just plain don’t remember, fuckit, you say the wrong thing.”
hey but it wasn’t just Don doing the denying was it?
“However, this directly contradicts several statements by Dr Brash and his deputy Gerry Brownlee over several days that they knew nothing whatsoever about the leaflets.”
On at least three occasions, National representatives have been quoted as saying they knew nothing about the pamphlets before their distribution. (Quotes attached.)”
Why did they all lie at the same time and then suddenly all come clean at the same time?
Are you saying that Gery Brownly, John Key and Don Brash all forgot about recent meetings regarding a prospective $1.2 million dollar parallel campaign? Sorry Pascal – that’s simply not credible.
October 12th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
“D4J is 100% troll and should be banned forthwith and immediately’
Hey bro do you want me to stay or go as I don’t give a fuck !!
October 12th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Hey bro hurry up dude as I don’t waste my fucking time with cowards on a keyboard !!
October 12th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
Please to met you jerk !!
October 12th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
D4J – calm it mate – no need to go and get yourself banned! Hey and did you know that you’re famous over at “kiwiblogblog”?
http://kiwiblogblog.wordpress.com/tag/d4j/
October 12th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Roger this I will say only once, when some coward bro comes in and back stabs the f##k out of me I will react to injustice as I would on any other issue . Please understand if kiwiblog doesn’t want comments then I couldn’t give a toss as I got a life outside sitting on my sore arse punching the crap out of a keyboard , give a man a break dude and f##k that other blog snog as I couldn’t a f##king malcontentedly about it , what a strange rabbit you are ?
October 12th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
nome – went and had a look. Jeez, what an echo chamber. Don’t they (and presumably you if you are busy visiting there) have something better to do with your time? Bitching about how DPF runs his site is so pointless. Why don’t you create your own site and do better? If this site is so crap, surely everyone will leave and come to your inspired new site?
October 12th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
pascal: labour good, national bad, facts irrelevant, roger omnipotent.
October 12th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
“Please understand if kiwiblog doesn’t want comments then I couldn’t give a toss as I got a life outside sitting on my sore arse punching the crap out of a keyboard”
You say that now dad …. but I can’t help but think that you’ll wake up to regret that tomorrow … poor dad.
October 12th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
I see Ray is an ex farmer, no doubt blessed with common sense and half a brain but not sure about the liberal bit. And you have a vet to, great. The vets around here think this present bunch in power should be euthanised and I concur.
October 12th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
Roger unlike you weirdo I got a life outside a keyboard . No wonder the All Blacks spent $30k on a piss up and the liarbour cantab crowd welcomed the losers home .
Would a real kiwi please stand up , please stand up . Roger I am f##king off to Australia as this country is a disgraceful mess and I give up !!
October 12th, 2007 at 6:01 pm
“Roger unlike you weirdo I got a life outside a keyboard.”
Yes a completely normal and sane life to boot! If only I could swap places with you dad
October 12th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
krazykiwi said “pascal: labour good, national bad, facts irrelevant, roger omnipotent.”
kk – you forgot two – EB evil, unions good!
October 12th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
welcome home, mods
October 12th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
“If only I could swap places with you dad
”
roger you have to have big balls to swap with me you spiritless coward nimby !!! No wonder the All Blacks are wimps with pansy’s like you spewing your socialist shit everywhere .
October 12th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
And there was me worrying that the moderators might be too enthusiastic.
October 12th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
D4J,,
I’m not talking to you,, I’m talking about you.
October 12th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
hey bro save your hot air for somebody that cares as you can gladly have this cess pit f##ked up country as I have had it . I am leaving just like Fred Dagg did , talk about nil idiots without role models and courage !!
October 12th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
D4J – Chill please
Andrew W – we are watching and observing. Rest assured it’s being noted and discussed.
October 12th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
Watch what you like – goodbye all .
October 12th, 2007 at 6:58 pm
Excellent. I reckon only a few tidies and warnings will be needed and the last 10 or 15 posts in this thread won’t even get created. And then you can just go back to drinking beer and reading the threads…
October 12th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
Paul – well said
October 12th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
I’m kind of looking forward to seeing the first moderation. How will it work – deletion entirely, or replacement with [This post deleted by moderator x. Off-topic, unnecessarily abusive, adds nothing to discussion]?
Do the moderated comments get put somewhere so that if someone is so inclined they can go look at them? Kind of a “who watches the watchers” thing? It would be nice to be able to go look at them when certain people start snidely suggesting that there is bias, or that things are unfairly being moderated, but still to have them gone out of the main flow so they don’t intrude.
Interested in how it will all actually work – perhaps I just need to wait and see?
October 12th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
“And there was me worrying that the moderators might be too enthusiastic.” -Andrew W
“I’m kind of looking forward to seeing the first moderation.”- PaulL
Jeezuz, how about moderating these holier than thou poseurs??? I find their smug smarmy attitude much more offensive than a few curses.
October 12th, 2007 at 7:35 pm
Paul – I think you have it spot on in your 1st part. Likely it will be replaced, and a note added by the moderator as to why (and the name of the moderator). Of course it will depend on what was said and in what context as to how much is deleted/edited.
And DPF moderates the moderators.
He’s the ref, we are just the touch judges
Oh .. and I am sure whatever happens there will be accusation of bias … that’s par for the course.
October 12th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
I think Red’s had a bit of a free run compared to D4J, now that it’s back to an even start it’ll be interesting to see which of them is first to a 6 month ban.
October 12th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
“I think Red’s had a bit of a free run compared to D4J, now that it’s back to an even start it’ll be interesting to see which of them is first to a 6 month ban.”
That’s pretty funny coming from a sneaking coward whose main claim to fame on here is encouraging his fellow leftists to abuse those on the right, or goading D4J in the hope he will be banned. Go and touch up the silver check creep.
October 12th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
“That’s pretty funny coming from a sneaking coward whose main claim to fame on here is encouraging his fellow leftists to abuse those on the right,”
I thought Andrew W was a libertarian? Or does one have to be a belligerent maniac to count as a libertarian in your book?
October 12th, 2007 at 8:00 pm
They can hope all they like redbaiter, but I am not bothering to post here again .
Cheers mate – good luck in the battle of bullshit, as I’ve had a gutsful and I will post where I am welcome .
What a country ?
October 12th, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Libertarian, communist, it’s all the same to Red.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Well, as one of the Moderators I feel this would be a good thread to practise on
And I feel a few of you are testing us, just remember we do believe in freedom of speech not just what what we agree with. On the other hand thread jacking……….
No I have not voted for lierally every party just a good range left to right and I have been voting for quite some time as I had my first vote just after I turned 20
Ray
October 12th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
Hey D4J, I thought you would welcome the new start regarding bans?
You seriously off to Aussie? I remember you and Fred discussing it a while back.
I don’t think Red’s charge that I goad you is fair, twice we’ve crossed, and you started it both times, so there!
October 12th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
“I thought Andrew W was a libertarian?”
He thinks he’s one too. Funny thing is when ever there’s a gang of braindead leftists trying to beat up Redbaiter, Andrew (and Paul L) are often there slavering along with them. He’s no Libertarian. Like you Gnome, he doesn’t have the intelligence, the education, the comprehension skills or the common sense to be anything but a leftist.
Take note. You’ll see his posts are mostly just sneaking cowardly vitriol disguised as legitimate comment. Doesn’t even have the balls to say what he wants to say. Paul L and Andrew W are ineffectual little people with big egos, and both consumed by their hatred for Redbaiter. One only has to note the endless posts they make focused on Redbaiter to know the truth of that.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
“And I feel a few of you are testing us,”
Umm, what’s here is tame.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:15 pm
Redbaiter – constructive argument is good. Abuse is not.
Attack the argument, not the person.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
“Paul L and Andrew W are ineffectual little people with big egos, and both consumed by their hatred for Redbaiter.”
oh boy cant stop laughing
October 12th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
“Paul L and Andrew W are ineffectual little people with big egos, and both consumed by their hatred for Redbaiter.”
There’s the problem Red, I don’t hate you, sometimes it’s just fun to bait the baiter, with all your abuse and bluster your just too easy a target.
There are many many folks of the sensible right here, KK, IP, Craig R, etc, I don’t clash with them, only you and very rarely D4J, After you I have more fights with Roger, DDD, and sonic than anyone else.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
oh and redbaiter – I forgot to say that you too are famous over at kiwiblogblog!
http://kiwiblogblog.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/is-redbaiter-for-real/
October 12th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
PC touch judges and refs ruined the game of rugby for kiwi’s , blogs will be the same .
October 12th, 2007 at 8:27 pm
“There’s the problem Red, I don’t hate you, sometimes it’s just fun to bait the baiter, with all your abuse and bluster your just too easy a target.”
There you are moderators- The smug little toady Andrew W admits that the reason he posts here is not to discuss the issues but to goad other posters into breaching posting codes. I think he should be censured for this clear admission of his intent to abuse the purpose of this discussion forum.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
“Attack the argument, not the person.”
Oh, you mean like this Richard?-
“I think Red’s had a bit of a free run compared to D4J, now that it’s back to an even start it’ll be interesting to see which of them is first to a 6 month ban.”
I hope we’re going to get some objectivity here.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
Red, at 6:28 I made my first comment on this thread, it was an innocuous comment that had nothing to do with you, but, as on numerous other occasions, you used it as an excuse to attack me.
Now you hypocritically say “I think he should be censured for this clear admission of his intent to abuse the purpose of this discussion forum.”
October 12th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
*sigh* Thanks to the usual suspect for showing why moderation is necessary.
Richard, Jordan, Mini-David
and Ray: Good luck, and commiserations.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
I say that because you just stated quite clearly that was your intent. And everything you post proves that to be so. You’re obsessed with Redbaiter.
Craig- what ?? No reference to panty sniffing? Surely you could have slipped it in somewhere.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
“I think Red’s…” that was humour Red, I guess you don’t get that form of tongue in cheek humour. As an attack on you it’s about as aggressive as … well no analogies come to mind, sorry if I hurt you.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
“sorry if I hurt you.”
Apology refused. I don’t accept apologies from obsessive creeping little arselickers who continaully disrupt forums in their attempts to goad others into misbehaving, and even have the gall to admit to that intent.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:50 pm
“…their attempts to goad others into misbehaving”
Another way of saying “It’s not my fault! He made me do it!”
October 12th, 2007 at 8:52 pm
First big test for the moderation team tonight.
fair to say they have performed as well as All Blacks.
Sigh…….
October 12th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
I’m starting to get the feeling DPF likes to be referred to as “Number 1″ and Kiwiblog will soon be renamed “The Village”, especially now he has a team of Number 2s (oh dear, that isn’t as bad as it sounds, honest…)
I wonder who’ll be first to declaim “I am not a number, I am a free man!”
It does get kind of surreal around here from time to time… that would explain a lot.
Okay, for those for whom the references are too obscure, all will be revealed…
October 12th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
Another way of saying “It’s not my fault! He made me do it!”
Its not another way of saying anything. Its a way of saying exactly what I said. You’re obsessed with Redbaiter and your posting here is almost 100% focussed on me. [Text removed by Richard - abusive].
October 12th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
I think I”ll just stick to my own blog snog where I get to play ruck the man and ref and touch judges and lickspitle witches in the grandstand and I get to ban everybody in the crazy pc world of kiwi wimps . Pull your head in dad , go easy dad , chill out dad , good night dad – booooooommmmmmmmmmmm
October 12th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
Text removed by dad for being abusive to his shadow ?
October 12th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
“You’re obsessed with Redbaiter and your posting here is almost 100% focussed on me.”
That’s delusional I’m afraid redbaiter – AW and I have had numerous arguments here. And all of them quite civil i might add.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
[Text removed by Richard - abusive].
It is not abusive. It is fair comment. This little creep is continually attempting to provoke other users on this forum (and he admits it) to the extent where I seriously consider it to be an indication of some kind of psychiatric problem, and Compulsive Obsessive Disorder is most likely the reason. If this is the kind of comment that you are going to censor you will ruin this forum through officiousness.
[Richard: Abusing a person, whether is be questioning his/her metal capacity or otherwise, is not on. You can attack someone's argument all you like, but not the person. The above comment is also not on (it does it again), but I will leave it there as an example. You could have said the same thing without any reference to "psychiatric problems" and such like. If you can't get the idea of commenting *without* abuse then don't comment. ]
October 12th, 2007 at 9:06 pm
No Red, you’re the stalker, I just kick you in self defence, people have warned me that I should just ignore you, perhaps I should, it’s obvious that you get your jollies out of getting a reaction.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
I honestly believe that Red and D4 are labour party supporters sent over here to disrupt this site and make the right seem like rabid nutters
And may I congratulate you both on the very fine job you are doing………….
And you are both going to prove it!
October 12th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
And now you are both going to prove it
October 12th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
“people have warned me that I should just ignore you”
So why don’t you? I’ll tell you. You cannot. You’re obsessed. You have been from the day you posted here, and you still are today. You couldn’t stop yourself if you tried. Look at your posts on this thread alone.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
PC gone mad? http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2007/ Gore and IPCC win nobe peace prize
October 12th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
You seem determined to get yourself banned RB. Attack the argument, not the commentator. Not that hard to understand surely?
October 12th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Thank you for the nice comment on my blog roger and Robert O is so right I am Labour supporter now . Lets go girls . Hi Sam and Sonic and Mr Dalley and all the other reds in my bed . Oh well , can’t beat them to death so I might as well join them . Nice to be in a political party where hyperbole is the only requirement and the ability to tell lies with a straight face . I like Helen and Labour .
October 12th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
[Richard: Abusing a person, whether is be questioning his/her metal capacity or otherwise, is not on. You can attack someone’s argument all you like, but not the person. The above comment is also not on (it does it again), but I will leave it there as an example. You could have said the same thing without any reference to “psychiatric problems” and such like. If you can’t get the idea of commenting *without* abuse then don’t comment. ]
So above where Andrew W refers to me as a stalker is something you condone, yet you see fit to reprimand another poster for suggesting he might be suffering from OCD. Andrew W admits that it his purpose to goad people into abusing him, yet even with such a blatant admission, you say nothing. In another post he labels me as a hypocrite. Sorry. I can’t see that your moderation is rational or fair, and IMHO, it definitely lacks even a semblance of objectivity.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
Thanks Sam. I wonder if DPF will stop trying to impugn the good character of Al Gore now that he’s been awarded the Nobel piece prize for his efforts to save us from massive environmental catastrophe. Or will the subtle AGW-denialist spin continue unabated?
October 12th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Whether you agree with Gore and/or the IPCC or not, the Nobel peace prize has been chucked to so many odd balls over the last couple of decades that it has little prestige left.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
roger what does this comment mean that you deposited on my blog snog ? “Have you been porked by a feminist yet dad?”
Hardly fair for a man on the Labour Team ?
October 12th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
“the good character of Al Gore ”
Smirk….
October 12th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
Well have you dad?
October 12th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
Only three things certain in life Roger
Taxes
Death
And DPF spinning
October 12th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
RB: Your correct “stalker” is a tad personal (at the light end of things). Lots of that was going on tonight, so I started with one past (yours) and ask EVERYONE to respect the same rules.
No point in me going back thru every post tonight and editing out the abuse – there would be too much editing
Attack the argument all you like – just not the person (thats for everyone not just RB). Also when they bait don’t reply (thats advice not a rule).
October 12th, 2007 at 9:26 pm
roger what does “porked” mean , and can you win a noble peace prize for porking a load of horse crap ?
October 12th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
You know exactly what it means D4J. Now might I suggest that your blog is a more appropriate forum for this discussion?
October 12th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
“Attack the argument all you like – just not the person (thats for everyone not just RB). Also when they bait don’t reply (thats advice not a rule).”
I realize your intentions are good, but if you let yourself be influenced and manipulated by the likes of obsessives like Andrew W, you will find yourself having difficulty defending yourself against accusations of bias. My advice is to refrain from involvement when such people as Andrew are so transparently trying to trap others into some kind of transgression.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
Are you telling what to do roger , well I’d be dammed , really more appropriate eh , [rest Deleted by Richard - abuse]
October 12th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Thanks for the tip RB
I do know I will be accused of bias whatever I do, so quite prepared for that.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
“My advice is to refrain from involvement when such people as Andrew are so transparently trying to trap others into some kind of transgression.”
You’re a libertarian aren’t you Baiter? And don’t libertarians believe in taking personal responsibility for your actions? Well Don’t blame Andrew W for your inability to refrain from making abusive personal attacks. That’s all you own doing I’m afraid, no one else’s.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
“..Don Brash did not lie..”
thanks for the first belly-laugh of the weekend..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 12th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
good luck Richard , but that roger chap is something from outta space .
Goodnight all and good luck moderators .
October 12th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
Moderators, welcome! I have a couple of suggestions about moderation. Happy to be invited to share them or to keep my grubby mits out of the ruck.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
“Don’t blame Andrew W for your inability to refrain from making abusive personal attacks.”
Oh look, Andy’s usual commie cheer squad is here again. Frankly Gnome, if I was ever a moderator, I’d delete every one of your posts on the grounds of tedium and inanity.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:40 pm
“thanks for the first belly-laugh of the weekend..”
Put the lie here, with quotes and source and date, and prove it to be a lie. You won’t of course, because as usual Phil, all you are capable of is cowardly smear and baseless inuendo.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:40 pm
Redbaiter wrote:
“I realize your intentions are good, but if you let yourself be influenced and manipulated by the likes of obsessives like Andrew W, you will find yourself having difficulty defending yourself against accusations of bias.”
Oh, the irony.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
[rest Deleted by Richard - abuse]
Ah come on. Jezuz, D4J is quite funny. Get a life mate.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:42 pm
and um..!..moderation sucks..
and over-moderation killed sir humphrys..
(just thought i’d mention that..)
i mean..’till now..the barking ones..the ratbiters..and the d4js’
have done their worst..
and no one is bleeding..nothing is broken..
and..i mean..it’s sorta like groucho marx not wanting to join any club that would have him..
as in what sort of saddo no-lifer volunteers to moderate someone elses feckin’ blog..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 12th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
Hmmm .. I thought user names were unique. Anyway .. the Richard above isnt me
October 12th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
“Oh, the irony.”
I think you are misusing the word “irony”. Your real intention I think might be to imply hypocrisy. If you look up “irony” in a good dictionary, with traditional definitions Richard, I think you will find it does not really fit in this case.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
OK, advice to the moderators.
If some people are slugging it out on an otherwise dead thread leave them to it, it’s not something others are compelled to watch, and as long as attacks aren’t being made on noncombatants, well what people say reflects more on themselves.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
“Hmmm .. I thought user names were unique.”
I think only registrations are unique. If a poster is unregistered, they can use any name. You can stop this (I think) by only allowing registered users.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
Moderators called “saddo no -lifer volunteers ” , surely that is a personal attack and worthy of a ban wan , haha silly philly ?
First test mody team ? If it was me I’d ban the drug crazed thing in question until detox was completed ? Just a thought Nandor ?
October 12th, 2007 at 9:48 pm
No the irony was still there redbaiter – it was just unintentional on your part.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
roger lets have a poll the winner stays – you or me , what you say dear nome and please don’t suggest a secret ballot, as you twisted socialists are always cheating when it comes to things like that !!
October 12th, 2007 at 9:53 pm
“No the irony was still there redbaiter”
One day Gnome, perhaps someone will teach you comprehension. Then it might be so much less tiresome dealing with your infantile crap.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
This is hilarious. It’s like a teacher just walked in the room and now you have to be good. ha ha ha, nothing like authority! Can’t live with it…
October 12th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
…pass the beer nuts.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
i’m with morris..heh-heh..!
it’s all gonna end in tears..!
i tell ya..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 12th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
Ummm – no you’ve got it wrong again I’m afraid redbaiter.
Irony:
“an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.”
“you let yourself be influenced and manipulated by the likes of obsessives like Andrew W”
You attempted to label Andrew “obsessive” yet this backfired, because you’re clearly deeply obsessive yourself, and we laughed at you.
So you might call that:
“an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.”
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irony
October 12th, 2007 at 10:07 pm
“Ummm – no you’ve got it wrong again I’m afraid redbaiter.”
No I haven’t? As I said, your comprehension is so abysmal and you just proved it again by showing that you can’t understand words like “traditional dictionary”. You’re just another stammering attention seeker and obsessive who can’t even quit even when he’s a couple of light years behind. Being proved a liar would have been enough shame for me. Nothing to someone with no self respect and no principles I guess.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
Personally If I were DPF, I’d kill the comment section entirely for a wee while. Force the people who post too much about virtually nothing to take a break, and maybe even come back with some manners.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
“Personally If I were DPF, I’d kill the comment section entirely for a wee while.”
Well maybe, but perhaps the easy way out for you would be to call the police and get them to arrest that person that’s holding the gun at your head and forcing you to read comments you don’t enjoy.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
roger nome
You have been hard out since this comment:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/10/moderators.html#comment-351682
And you’re still not making any sense to me after half a bottle of wine and three games of chess. Go get some sleep – you puppies need more of than us oldies.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
“As I said, your comprehension is so abysmal and you just proved it again by showing that you can’t understand words like “traditional dictionary”.”
Ah until we can get our hands on an official redbaiter approved dictionary we will never know the true meaning of the word “irony”? Just like when you tried to tell us that Singapore is the only true democracy in the world! Only to be humiliated when it was reveled that current government has been in power for all of the last 40 years!
October 12th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
Nite all.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
“Just like when you tried to tell us that Singapore is the only true democracy in the world!”
A sad insane collectivist who thinks he’s a crowd, and so desperate for attention that like a small child, he gets it by lying about what someone else might have done. False allegations are pretty standard Stalinist strategy. The left are experts at it. What’s the next change of subject bore?
October 12th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
What an odd thread – is this the new-look Kiwiblog?
DPF:
Can I suggest that moderators clearly indicate this in their name – ie “Richard (Moderator)”? Otherwise their contributions (especially when they aren’t editing comments) are liable to confuse, especially as we’ll forget their names over time. And obviously no one else should be allowed to use the “Moderator” tag in their name – surely a ground for an instant ban.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:28 pm
Agree, The presence of comments from a know moderator will deter crap or offending comments. Like the police car parked on the side of the motorway deters speeding.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:30 pm
“A sad insane collectivist who thinks he’s a crowd”
No – you said that in a public forum bleater – your insanity was plain for all to see.
“and so desperate for attention that like a small child”
oh boy – here we go again, more unintentional.
Ah well it’s all been said about redbaiter before hasn’t it? So why bother? There’s always the old classics in kiwiblog archives. And they don’t come any better then this one from fellow right-winger Craig Ranapai ….
“Redbaiter:
LOL… Don’t be such a sooky bitch – or are you another one of these sad losers who can’t take the smallest taste of their own medicine. I’ve had better bitch-slapdowns from children.
ll explain to you why Don Brash, flawed as he is, is always going to be a better man and more of a leader than you’ll ever be.
He’s willing to stand up and be counted for something. All you can do sit in the corner and anonymously shit on everyone and everything else – and when you’re challenged to stand up and tell us all what you’d do differently? Well, I guess that would require using your brain instead of your spleen so it’s back to your tired SOB. Have you ever considered that yout endless stream of shrill vindictive crap does more harm to the right than Don Brash ever could? Sorry, but most of us don’t live in your state of ideological purity and respond better to argument than childish invective .
Don’t get me wrong – you’re perfectly entitled to keep making a fool of yourself here as long as DPF allows you to. I certainly don’t think National or Don Brash is beyond criticism – just that you’re not worth listening to. You don’t like being called on your crap – that’s your problem, not mine.”
October 12th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
“Well maybe, but perhaps the easy way out for you would be to call the police and get them to arrest that person that’s holding the gun at your head and forcing you to read comments you don’t enjoy.”
My personal feelings are irrelevant. The assumption I made was that DPF wants the comment section to contain useful discussion, not the pointless bickering that usually occurs. If that is not what he wants for his blog I do not see the reasoning behind his decision to appoint moderators.
I’ll also point out that if you were, “BlueBaiter”, left wing instead of right, I believe your short temper would have earned you a ban long ago. Regardless of the “intelligent” points you have made.
Are you familiar with L. Ron Hubbard? Author, aka the Scientology guy? Before he went all power-crazed and created his own religion he said a few very intelligent things about human communication. One of those things was that in order for two people to communicate, there has to be some level of empathy between them. You’re approach to debate won’t communicate anything to anyone unless they already agree with you, since you treat anyone who disagrees with you with contempt. But then, you may not care about communicating with brain-dead commies like myself eh?
October 12th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
Yawn…. zzzzzzzzzzzzz
October 12th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
“brain-dead commies like myself eh?”
There you go Richard. Warn him for self abuse.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:38 pm
You know RB, if we’re boring you too much, perhaps the easy way out for you would be to call the police and get them to arrest that person that’s holding the gun at your head and forcing you to read comments you don’t enjoy.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
Redbaiter
You should be a moderator. If as has been suggested by more than one person, you treat us all as being wrong all of the time – then you would be a very impartial moderator.
DPF – What do you think ?
October 12th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
…only half a bottle eh burt?!? sure, sure ….
October 12th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
“You should be a moderator.”
Burt I couldn’t do it. I think you’d need to be a certain kind of person to be officious enough to make the kind of judgments I see Richard making here tonight, and I’ve never been like that, and hopefully never will be.
That said, that view could be a bit unfair, in that those who put their names forward might have genuinely been trying to help DPF deal with his problems. However, my understanding was that the original concern was posts that could lead to defamation suits. Now it seems to have gone much further than that.
BTW, I don’t agree that (on one level) impartiality is necessary. I think DPF is far too tolerant of the leftist morons who pollute this blog. I think attention seeking low IQ half educated fuckwits like Roger Nome and Sam Dixon and all their commie mates bring nothing interesting or challenging to the discussion. I’d prevent them from posting.
Their tired bigoted old crap, and their habit of striving to be the first to post it on each thread is just sabotage of reasoned discussion. There’s plenty of left wing blogs full of back slapping self congratulatory commies where such bullshit would be much more welcome.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
LOL, or the even more human error of not being able to admit that a programmer is not only not an encyclopedia, but they also need not be. That’s what encyclopedias are for.
If you’ve been in enough interviews you know that a question like that, where you don’t know the answer, you just say, ‘I’ll find out’. You don’t make it up, or lie. I’ve been hit with tricky questions in job interviews, and by far the best strategy all round is to just tell the truth. The Art is to make it into a positive. “Sure, I can’t remember the exact precedence of the operators right now, but that obviously hasn’t stopped me writing tens of thousands of lines of perfectly functional code that made my company millions of dollars!”. Or “The important thing is that I understand the question and know how to find the answer”. Or “To be honest, on the first compile, at least 10% of my code has a bug in it. I let the compiler remind me of the biggest errors, and the first test run of the more subtle ones. That’s software development in action, how I’ve been doing it since I was 10″ Or “Anyone who claims to code just from memory is either a liar or a genius – I am neither”.
October 12th, 2007 at 11:11 pm
RB: you are sounding…kind of…err…controlled. This moderation thing really works for you.
October 12th, 2007 at 11:31 pm
Redbaiter wrote:
You know something, Redbaiter, you’re actually improving – you frothed in my direction without the usual RB megamix of “limp-wristed”, “PC”, “Stalinist”, “fuckwit” and so on. True, you relapse pretty quickly but Rome wasn’t built in a day and so on.
October 12th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
Seconded. Make redbaiter a moderator.
October 13th, 2007 at 12:32 am
If I recall correctly, the introduction of a 5-point try in rugby was primarily to make the game more exciting by rewarding open, running play. It was an Irishman, I believe, who suggested that it would actually make more sense to make the penalty worth 5 points instead (as no team would want to give away a penalty).
Using the same backward logic, wouldn’t it make more sense to make moderators out of the usual suspects here that continuously drag a thread off-topic and down to the lowest common denominator? I.e., let Roger Nome, D4J, Redbaiter, Sonic et al be moderators. That way they’ll spend all their time deleting each others comments out and hopefully what would be left would be something worth reading.
Oh, and DPF, you should enter the string “The Standard” into your abusive language filter. I wonder how much Tane would then post if his links came up http://www.***********.org?
October 13th, 2007 at 3:23 am
Phillip John/Roger Nome:
You’ve contributed practically nothing to this thread. So I decided to put on a gas mask and visit your blog, to see whether you actually have anything intelligent to say.
First impressions weren’t positive: calling it “Roger Nome’s Progressive Politics” is rather pompous. But then in your latest thread entitled “Yet another reason why New Zealand needs its unions back” you say:
Which – by some breathtaking mental gymnastics – leads you to conclude:
So it’s established then: National’s De-unionisation of New Zealand in the 1990s has created an economy that’s characterised by low wages, low productivity levels and long working hours. If only the Labour party had the courage of conviction to turn this around.
I’m sorry – come again? You’ve created a scatterplot comparing unionism and working hours. And you claim that supports your conclusion? It doesn’t “establish” low wages and low productivity levels – unless your point is that those on an hourly wage are working fewer hours and earning less (hardly a great outcome). This raises serious questions about the quality of your Kiwiblog contributions.
I suggest you moderate your own blog before commenting here.
October 13th, 2007 at 5:26 am
peak oil..
so you are keen on defending our low wage/long working ours culture..?
with the gaps getting bigger and bigger..
and our ever-developing ‘underclass’..
and..how is joining de-unionism and working hours..
an invalid/irrelevant point..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 13th, 2007 at 5:36 am
Clearly roger nome or Phillip John M is mentally disturbed and he has the IQ of a rotten Baldric turnip . I think he is a prime candidate to be placed under a Section 121(11) Criminal Justice Act for the sake of the community at large.
Isn’t it most unusual how silly philly defends such a nome retard ? Perhaps they are the same person which would explain a lot !!
October 13th, 2007 at 7:07 am
Dear Moderators,
Can you please block any parliamentary ISPs -pretty, pretty please
October 13th, 2007 at 8:25 am
There’s a kids movie that’s been on Sky lately, Nanny McPhee, the brats terrorised 17 nannies before they got to McPhee, is Richard OK?
October 13th, 2007 at 8:40 am
Ben Wilson: LOL, or the even more human error of not being able to admit that a programmer is not only not an encyclopedia, but they also need not be. That’s what encyclopedias are for.
Aye, but like I said – that day was a complete brain fart for me. Everything, and I mean everything was switched off. I’m surprised I didn’t come home with drool on my shirt.
October 13th, 2007 at 10:46 am
“First impressions weren’t positive: calling it “Roger Nome’s Progressive Politics” is rather pompous.”
At least it’s honest. Not like DPF’s blog, which should, if we are honest with ourselves, should be called “DPF’s Neoliberal politics”.
“I’m sorry – come again? You’ve created a scatterplot comparing unionism and working hours. And you claim that supports your conclusion? It doesn’t “establish” low wages and low productivity levels – unless your point is that those on an hourly wage are working fewer hours and earning less (hardly a great outcome).”
It is the latest in a series of about 8 posts that build a case for New Zealand returning to a centralised bargaining model, such as most other OECD countries have.
And if you look at the graph it’s pretty clear that workers in countries with high levels of collective bargaining coverage work much shorter hours isn’t it?
October 13th, 2007 at 10:59 am
POC
I also meant to say that if you want to see how I reach my conclusion about National creating a low pay, low productivity and long working hours economy you need to read to 7 previous posts – also read comments if you want a fuller picture.
Here – you can start at the second bottom post on this page and work your way up if you like.
http://rogernome.blogspot.com/2007_07_01_archive.html
October 13th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
Phillip John/Roger Nome:
I did read down before I posted.
I will say however that calculating any statistical significance is nigh on impossible because of the numerous other factors that would need to be included and accounted for. As such these findings should be taken as indicative evidence rather than concrete proof of any correlation between collective bargaining coverage and labour productivity growth.
You acknowledge the difference between “indicative evidence” and “concrete proof” of correlation there. But even “concrete proof” (which you don’t seem to find on any of the scatterplots) doesn’t, of itself, signify causation.
Which is why I strongly disagree with Phil’s assertion above that I’m “defending our low wage/long working ours culture”. Are you claiming that the Japanese work long hours for low pay, Phil? I’ve lived there. And you’ll find that cultural reasons also partly explain that phenomenon. Again, not concrete proof of causation.
And “…with the gaps getting bigger and bigger..”. Phil, please quote me the latest figures on union membership and tell me that this is not increasing under a Labour-led government, with income levels remaining where they are now.
October 13th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
[Sorry, let me try reposting that properly]
Phillip John/Roger Nome:
I did read down before I posted.
You acknowledge the difference between “indicative evidence” and “concrete proof” of correlation there. But even “concrete proof” (which you don’t seem to find on any of the scatterplots) doesn’t, of itself, signify causation.
Which is why I strongly disagree with Phil’s assertion above that I’m “defending our low wage/long working ours culture”. Are you claiming that the Japanese work long hours for low pay, Phil? I’ve lived there. And you’ll find that cultural reasons also partly explain that phenomenon. Again, not concrete proof of causation.
And “…with the gaps getting bigger and bigger..”. Phil, please quote me the latest figures on union membership and tell me that this is not increasing under a Labour-led government, with income levels remaining where they are now.
Again, Phil, I’m saying there are limits to fact-finding on the basis of statistical analysis. If Phillip John clearly expressed his conclusion as opinion, then I wouldn’t have had any issue. But he almost presents it as a scientific no-brainer. Hence my quibble.
October 13th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
“You acknowledge the difference between “indicative evidence” and “concrete proof” of correlation there. But even “concrete proof” (which you don’t seem to find on any of the scatterplots) doesn’t, of itself, signify causation.”
Did you read the comments section? It includes a comprehensive econometric study that finds a correlation between unionism and labor productivity growth – all be it a small one.
To me the correlation between de-unionisation and longer working hours is obvious – there are clear reasons (i.e. unions provide increased bargaining power). And the graph shows an extremely close relationship. But here’s a little more evidence if you’re still skeptical.
This is an excerpt from some research that I’ve done in the past ….
“Incidentally, other countries that have exhibited an increase in usual hours worked Japan, Korea and Canada, all countries with relatively decentralised (de-unionised) labour markets (Spoonly 2004: 16). Indeed, amongst other decentralised labour markets such as Japan, Korea, and Canada, the OECD has identified New Zealand as one of the few countries where the usual hours worked per employee has risen in the last decade (OECD, 2004: 37, cited in Spoonly, 2004: 16). According to the OECD there has been a growth in the proportion of men who work over 40 hours per week, with a smaller increase for women (ibid). To Spoonly the flexibility of New Zealand’s labour market, in combination with the liberalisation of shop hours has resulted in non-standard work schedules dictated by “just-in-time” staffing arrangements (ibid). Consequently, workers have little choice but to accept work schedules that conflict with the needs of their personal lives (ibid: 16-17). This finding is in line with McLaughlin and Rasmussen’s study (1998: 288), which found that negation of working hours was only happening in a minority of cases in the secondary labour market. So there seems to be significant evidence to support the view that the ECA has increased the hours worked per person and that this trend has continued under the third way.”
October 13th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
MAKE ME A MODERATOR
d4J WILL BE GONE BY LUNCHTIME
October 13th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
So to summarise – Within the OECD, all countries which exhibit a decentralised (de-unionised) labor market have longer average working hours than countries with centralised labour markets. Furthermore – only countries with with decentralised labour markets have shown a growth in usual hours worked per employee during the last 10 years.
So do you still have a problem with the idea that de-unionisation/ labour market de-centralisation causes longer average working hours?
October 13th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
“So to summarise – Within the OECD, all countries which exhibit a de-centralised (de-unionised) labor market have longer average working hours than countries with centralised labour markets.”
Actually I’ll amend that to say that – Portugal and Spain are outlier – countries which have centralised labour markets, but have similar average working hours to Great Britain and Canada (the tow countries in the “decentralised group with the shortest average working hours). Apart from these two examples the difference between the groups is absolutely stark.
October 13th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Pascal, brainfart days should be like sick leave, allocated in a chunk to be used up when needed. You should be able to get away with drool on your shirt once a year.
October 13th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
“Ie the Peter Davis is gay nonsense.”
Really ?
October 13th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
David, what do you class a homophobic – honestly held opinion or name calling?
It seems it is now quite acceptable to say Maori are overrepresented in the physical abuse of children but unacceptable to state the fact the homosexuals are overrepresented in the sexual abuse of minors.
October 13th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
Not to mention homosexual men are the biggest carriers of HIV in New Zealand ?
October 13th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
chuck,,
where are the stats that gays are overrepresented in child abuse.
I have nothing against social gays, its the political gays I can’t stand
But I would agree 100% with a political gay that homosexuals are not prevalent in child abuse.
I had to read your quote three times to make sure I read you right
Completely spurious and ill conceived remark
October 13th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
“Completely spurious and ill conceived remark’
I see you have upped the anti bro…..
October 13th, 2007 at 7:02 pm
It’s worth noting that child abusers who don’t consider themselves gay will still molest boys.
Most of them overwhelmingly will go for either gender in children despite whatever sexual preference they identify with or who they prefer from the adult population.
October 13th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
nih how is your mirror blog going darling , cracked yet ?
Anyway child abuse is an insidious problem not only attributable to homosexual men but also men who have sex with women .
Do you agree with the man/boy love concept ?
October 14th, 2007 at 10:01 am
Hinamanu, I will give you the stats although I doubt if it will convince you judging by the fact that you have already made up your mind to suit you ideology.
Below are some of the main points.
• Pedophiles are invariably males: Almost all sex crimes against children are committed by men.
• Significant numbers of victims are males: Up to one-third of all sex crimes against children are committed against boys (as opposed to girls).
• The 10 percent fallacy: Studies indicate that, contrary to the inaccurate but widely accepted claims of sex researcher Alfred Kinsey, homosexuals comprise between 1 to 3 percent of the population.
• Homosexuals are overrepresented in child sex offenses: Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children.
• Some homosexual activists defend the historic connection between homosexuality and pedophilia: Such activists consider the defense of “boy-lovers” to be a legitimate gay rights issue.
• Pedophile themes abound in homosexual literary culture: Gay fiction as well as serious academic treatises promote “intergenerational intimacy.”
http://www.gayconspiracy.co.uk/page24.html
Your homosexual friends will probably tell you Timothy J. Dailey has been totally discredited. No doubt he has in their eyes as has everyone else who disagrees with their agenda. It is very similar to the global warming scam. Anyone who disagrees is a denier.
I challenge you to debate this on the issues rather than personalities. Do you dispute the percentage of the population who are homosexual? Do you accept that approximately one third of underage victims are boy?
I will address the point made by nih. It often claimed that if a adult male has sex with a boy under the legal age of 16 in New Zealand he is not necessarily a homosexual or that does not constitute a homosexual act? This is a spurious argument based on semantics. The age of consent in different around the world. The age of consent for homosexual acts can range from 13 in to 18 in many other countries. I would hope that most people would accept that sex involving two males where at least one of them is over tha age of 12 is definitely a homosexual act.
nih, kindly show us your stats.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:24 am
The Link Between Hard Core Pornography and the Sexual Abuse of Children by Paedophiles Needs to be Considered in this Debate. For Example….
Ms Marie Dyhrberg, the lawyer acting for a Scout leader, Andrew John Pybus, 32, who was convicted of sexually abusing two boys, one under 12 and one under 16 years, is reported in the Dominion Post (9/2/05;NZPA report) as having stated outside the Court that “she did not believe there was a definite link between watching porn and child abuse,” despite acknowledging that Pybus and fellow Scout leader, Nigel Richard Fenemor, 48, who was convicted of similar offences, “had watched porn before some of the offending.” She added: “One can be interested in pornography and not necessarily act it out. It may be more likely that if one is acting it out, then one is also attracted to pornography.” The Society finds these simplistic comments, that effectively downplay the well-established link between the use of pornography by child abusers and potential abusers, and its influence on their actual offending, demonstrate a lack of common sense and ignorance of the facts. A recent Department of Internal Affairs report shows that there is a very high correlation (link) between persons convicted of possession of child porn and their sexual offending against children (see internet link Reference 1).
The case Dyhrberg commented on involved men in possession of massive stockpiles of child porn (all involving the sexual abuse and/or exploitation of children) who had admitted and been convicted of sexually abusing young boys placed in their care. The possession alone and/or dissemination of child porn, leaving aside the matter of offending, is a serious criminal offence in itself. Pybus, like many child abusers had more than an “interest” in such material. A total of 61,823 still images and movies of child porn were found in his possession, a fact that Justice Cooper said indicated “a consuming, perverted preoccupation”. Pybus used a digital camera to take several hundred pictures of the sexual abuse of the two young boys he befriended. Such offenders often pass these images on to other offenders or potential offenders and eventually they may be accessible via Internet sites. Dyhrberg’s assertion that an “interest in pornography” (in this case child porn) does “not necessarily” lead to act[ing] it out” seeks to downplay the role porn has in sexually arousing men to lust, the committing of sexual offences against children and its use by them in grooming their victims to participate in sexual acts. Why has she been so reluctant to state clearly the well-known evidence that men with “interest” in child porn are regularly drawn into committing sexual offences against children? Pornography has been shown to be a regular stepping stone leading to such offences. A denial of the link is as stupid as saying there is no link between advertising and consumer buying or between smoking and lung cancer?
Fenemor admitted charges of sexual violation, including anal sex, and representative charges of indecently assaulting a boy under 16. The report stated that the stepping stones leading to his sexual abuse “began with fondling, masturbation and progressed to anal sex.” However, the role of child porn in the process of corrupting the offenders should have been acknowledged. Justice Cooper said he doubted either Scoutmaster fully appreciated the psychological harm they had done to their victims and their families. The same type of exploitative porn images the offenders obsessively fed their minds on and produced themselves, involving the abuse of children, are freely available to any New Zealander owning a computer from many hundreds of internet sites. The Society believes that the Labour government needs to pass urgent legislation that would require all ISP providers to provide effective filters that would block altogether, or significantly reduce the likelihood of, people being able to access pornography, including all child porn. Such filters are already available from a few ISP’s such as Maxnet, Ihug and Watchdog.
Reference: 1.
http://www.censorship.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/wpg_URL/Resource-material-Our-Research-and-Reports-Internet-Traders-of-Child-Pornography-and-other-Censorship-Offenders-in-New-Zealand?OpenDocument