Tomorrow we find out how much we were over-taxed
The accounts for the last financial year (to 30 June) get released tomorrow. The surplus is looking to be so embarrasingly large, that there is a lockup so that journalists can be educated as to why it isn’t really that large.
Remember this is the Government which cancelled the chewing gum tax cuts.
Treasury forecasts, once again, look to be incredibly conservative. Plus of course Dr Cullen sticks in billions of contingencies.
Iy might not be practical, but wouldn’t it be great if at the end of the financial year, the Government just automatically refunded any surplus (above that needed for Cullen fund etc) to taxpayers.
Dear Taxpayer,
In the last financial year the Government received $4 billion more than it needed. Rather than keep this money, we are returning it to those who were accidentally over-taxed.
Hence please find attached a refund cheque for $1,800 as your share of the over-taxation.
Yours faithfully
David Farrar
Minister of Finance
Except the actual figure looks to be far more than $4 billion. We will find out tomorrow.
October 9th, 2007 at 6:42 am
Sounds like a recipe for a Tui billboard
Cullen Promises Tax-Cuts For All – Yeah, right
October 9th, 2007 at 6:44 am
You don’t understand David, Taxcuts mean cutting services. Do you want babies to die, or old people to languish on waiting lists? Think of the Children! Oh the humanity!
This entire post epitomises the cruelty and oppression of the capitalist military industrial complex and their lackeys.
October 9th, 2007 at 6:45 am
Thanks for the heads up DPF – as I’ve said before on this blog all tax is theft. Do they really lockup the media? If our nation’s journalists had a spine or a brain they’d take a stand against this. What an unbelievable conspiracy.
October 9th, 2007 at 6:48 am
It would never happen here, but at least we are safe in the knowledge that Labour and their apologists will always find an excuse to why a 4 billion plus surplus isn’t big enough and the workers need to be taxed more.
Plus we need the high taxation so that Cullen can spend large in election year. Got to be able to afford the crazy promises!
October 9th, 2007 at 6:49 am
The media don’t have to attend the lockup. I am puzzled as to why one is needed as normally they are used for market sensitive announcements, not merely historical accounts.
October 9th, 2007 at 6:54 am
Any ideas why Cullen does such a strange and politically unpopular move?
I have two.
A. It all goes into the back pocket of Helen Klark and her Lesbian sidekicks
B. The headline figure is not very meaningful.
Still, who needs to be responsible when in opposition? I am sure Helen Klark wasnt.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:05 am
You know I don’t know what the sexual orientation of Helen’s sidekicks has to do with a surplus! Such comments just increase the chance of the thread going off topic.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:06 am
Very good deity. You gave me a smile. Sad thing is, its virtually indistinguishable from how leftists really think.
I know the suggested letter is an attempt at humour but I just want to raise one issue. Whatever the surplus is, it should not be returned on the basis that it is distributed equally among all “taxpayers”. Many so called taxpayers do not in reality pay any tax. The surplus should be returned to those who produced it.
This is causing a growing schism in NZ society. Those who are part of NZ’s productive sector feel that they are being bled dry, stolen from, and the fruits of their efforts are being doled out to the Labour voting unproductive by a gang of power obsessed thieves.
To make it worse, after all that money is stolen, purportedly to provide government services, there is hardly one government service that works.
Here’s a query for the experts. Does the tax paid by those receiving their income from treasury count when the surplus is calculated? Given that the so called “tax” paid by these workers is coming from the same account it is paid out of, how can it?
Following thru on this, government spending is a high as it has ever been. The government now spends around 50% of all money circulating in NZ. This has to mean that a large part of the tax take is really only paper money.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:12 am
A huge surplus and NO SERIOUS FRAUD SQUAD , I do wonder where all the doe rae me will go MAD women speaker ?
October 9th, 2007 at 7:13 am
Cullen is pathologically opposed to Tax cuts. He lives by the socialist mantra “Each should take enough according to their needs”.
If he gave us a pack of Chewing gum last time, why should we expect anything more than a packet of chippies this time?
More lies about affordibility and inflation will the spin to justify no tax cuts.
Cullen is a wanker – I work hard for my money and I am sick of this theiving socialist taking 40% of what I earn to pay for the parasites to be dependant on this corrupt government.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:18 am
I suspect tax surpluses are being built up to finance substantial tax cuts next year to undermine National. People will forget they are only getting back excess tax they have paid over the last few years and think Cullen is doing them a big favour.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:22 am
Or we have overtaxed you so income tax for the rest of the financial year is CANCELLED. The miserable little pommy prick does not want to do that because he is nervous he needs the money for a great big Labour Party spending splurge in election year.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:24 am
“If our nation’s journalists had a spine or a brain they’d take a stand against this. What an unbelievable conspiracy.”
They haven’t, and that’s one of the main reason this country is so far up shit creek without a paddle. The media have betrayed the citizenry by working hand in hand with a gang of power obsessed crooks. They have abdicated their responsibility to defend the weak against the powerful. Rather, they are propaganda agents, co-conspirators in the web of deceit that keeps the totalitarian left in power.
They should refuse to take part in this contrived event. They won’t tho. They’re happy to attend. Gutless socialist sycophants. Watchdogs of the people??? pffft… Lapdogs of socialism.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:26 am
I’m interested in this too. I’m sure that less tax income is attributed to public sector activities than to private sector. even at an equal split wouldn’t a $10b surplus actually only be $5b of tax against productive activity? Is that why Cullen crys poor?
October 9th, 2007 at 7:26 am
redbaiter obviously sees itself as one of those standing aloofly on the pavement..
quietly glowing with schadenfreude..
..as he looks down on those ‘unproductive’ ones..
..writhing in the gutter..
(that’s ‘pretty close’..eh reddy..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 9th, 2007 at 7:33 am
Dear Taxpayer,
“In the last financial year the Government received $4 billion less than it needed. As when we run a surplus we give the money back, we now require your share of the deficit.
Hence please find attached a bill for $1,800 as your share of the under-taxation.
Yours faithfully
David Farrar
Minister of Finance”
You can’t have it both ways.
Additionally I though injecting extra money back into the economy via tax cuts was a bad idea at the moment as it would fuel inflation?
October 9th, 2007 at 7:33 am
“quietly glowing with schadenfreude..”
I thought that was the Prime Ministers and caustic Kullen’s only characteristics and both of them should be in prison for this great robbery .
October 9th, 2007 at 7:34 am
Monty said “If he gave us a pack of Chewing gum last time, why should we expect anything more than a packet of chippies this time?”
He didn’t GIVE us anything Monty – he merely PROMISED a packet of chewing gum, then back-tracked on his promise. Meanwhile, as a small-business owner, with income essentially capped due to the source of the funding, he requires me to find an increasing percentage of income over the next four years, up to a maximum of 4% to pay in KiwiSaver contributions. We have already employed four new staff members since 1 July, all of whom have been required to join KiwiSaver.
It’s really ironic – as rfhoward points out, Labour is building up a huge surplus to “buy” the next election; at the same time they are ramming through legislation to silence their opposition, and have the gall to accuse National of building up a “war-chest” of donations to fight the election. Sorry Mr Cullen – you can’t have it both ways, or you will inevitably draw comparisons with regimes such as Mugabe’s.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:36 am
philu, there is a difference between those that are unproductive through no fault of their own vs those that are plain lazy and would rather rely on handouts. you know… safety-net vs hammock.
i’m prefectly happy to fund a safety-net, so are most NZers.
what pisses me off are those basking in a hammock asking for the taxpayer to bring them the menu and winelist.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:40 am
These socialist champagne sucking scumbags are going to bribe dumb arse voters with a big tax cut election year .
I am ashamed to be a New Zealander as this country is run by criminals !!
October 9th, 2007 at 7:40 am
and don’t forget people..!
we have serious/expensive economic and environmental ‘issues’ coming up ‘real soon’…eh..?
(anyone who reads/watches any further than the ‘world sections/segments of our media..cannot be unaware of this..eh dpf..?
btw..dpf..when do you think you might be able to drag yourself away from the gripping imperatives/immediacies of..oh..i dunno..wellington student politics..?..
to attempt even the barest minimum of coverage of these unfolding scenarios..
you would be part of the ‘cover-up/’keep a lid on this’ crew..?
would you d.p.f..?
y’know..!..as part of the natty-hq big-plan..?
(subsection:..’whatever you do..don’t ‘scare the horses!/punters’..’)
btw..dpf..what are your thoughts on the maxims on people with a ‘loud media-voice’ such as yourself..?
and their ‘responsibilities’..both spoken and unspoken..
to foster that ‘idea’l of ‘an informed democracy is a healthy democracy’..?
not only that..
but their responsibilities to take up the role neglected by our mainstream media..
..of warning/alerting us to what is coming our way..
(so we can ‘plan’ for it..)
the government and the media are colluding..both conciously..and subconciously..
to ‘keep us in the dark..and to feed us bullshit;..
which side are you on dpf..?
the ‘dark side..?
or the ‘light’ side.. ?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 9th, 2007 at 7:45 am
David, I’m getting confused about which National Party lines to believe. See, on the one hand the Government is pumping too much demand into the economy with its out of control spending, thus causing inflation, and on the other it’s not putting enough back into the economy through tax cuts. Which is it?
And why do you automatically assume that a surplus means you’re being overtaxed? You could just as easily argue that the Government’s social services budget is being underspent.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:45 am
More tax monies for the govt pet projects and overpaid lackies…
“Robert Moore, Robert Moore riding through the night
Stealing from the poor and giving to the rich.. silly bitch”.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:46 am
Luke said: Additionally I though injecting extra money back into the economy via tax cuts was a bad idea at the moment as it would fuel inflation?
This government have for many years been taking far too much tax off us – if they had not taken an excess, then we would not have so much debt – it most likely would not have affected our spending but would have enabled us to retire debt and purchase without incurring debt.
Of course now, if they choose to stop taking so much more than they need from us, a sudden drop in tax could cause an inflationary blip. But we would adjust to having more of our own money and a lot of us would retire debt, invest, etc.
Remember, it’s our money. They take it by force.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:48 am
krazy kiwi said..
“..what pisses me off are those basking in a hammock asking for the taxpayer to bring them the menu and winelist..”
quite the unrealistic picture you have there..
..of those struggling way way below any poverty-lines..
eh kk..?
these are people to who a visit to a foodhall..
is their version of ‘a big night out’..
and you..kk..like ratbiter..and all the others..
are nothing but a manifestation of that cruel/calvinist/miserablist thread in the new zealand psyche..
those who begrudge everyone..everything..
..and wish even more miseries to foisted on those struggling the most..
would ‘contemptible’ ‘cover it?’
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 9th, 2007 at 7:50 am
It all goes into the back pocket of Helen Klark and her Lesbian sidekicks
That’s from natural party of govt
…
These socialist champagne sucking scumbags are going to bribe dumb arse voters with a big tax cut election year .
I am ashamed to be a New Zealander as this country is run by criminals !!
And that’s one of many from Dad4Justice. Redbait carries on like this all day long.
Yet you banned Robinsod because he was kicking too much Tory arse. Honestly bro, you’re starting to look a little scared.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:52 am
Hold on Tane , look at the track record of Labour , alleged criminal activities by a Labour MP , for example , Mr Field .
October 9th, 2007 at 7:53 am
bollocks phil, you mis-represent me.
there are plenty of genuinely needy in nz. i’d happily give more to them.
there are also plenty of lazy folks, conditioned to expect their very existiance to be served up on a plate.
this latter group should be welcomed into the real world where effort is rewarded and lazyness is punished.
which group do you belong to?
October 9th, 2007 at 7:54 am
The question is why does this government seem to take more than it needs?
I want a government that only asks of us what it needs to carry out the tasks it has set itself. If it only taking money out of the economy to control inflation, because having too much money in the economy is seen as inflationary, then Labour’s status as the party of the working class has to be under threat.
Workers spending power is being continually eroded. Prices seem to be increasing accross the board. Power, Fuel, basic commodities, and housing. All of these are going up while wages and salaries fail to keep pace. The government now chooses to announce a big surplus while many lower and middle income people are still struggling.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:57 am
Slightlyrighty – Wage growth is tracking above inflation. It should be far higher, but to do that you’d have to look at strengthening the ERA, which is not something I’d imagine you’d be interested in. Under National wages stagnated or fell below inflation for most Kiwis, and their employment policies look largely the same this time round. So how’s National going to help working families? A $10 a week tax cut matched by a $50 a week wage cut and more user-pays? No thanks.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:58 am
Tane
I thought NPOG was one of yours and was taking the piss…….
G
October 9th, 2007 at 7:59 am
krazykiwi said:..”..and lazyness is punished..”
(oo-err..!..is ‘spanking’ of ‘the lazy ones involved..?
in your ‘master-plan’..?
kk..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 9th, 2007 at 8:02 am
How’s your sucking going from the taxpayers teet going at the moment D4J.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:03 am
Tane.
I personally have a distrust of the inflation figures used by this government. Are housing figures included when calculating inflation? Have you checked your grocery bill lately, did your power bill go up as much as mine?
October 9th, 2007 at 8:05 am
How will strengthening the ERA promote wage growth exactly Tane?
ie define ” strengthening.
G
October 9th, 2007 at 8:05 am
Good one John Dalley I like that personal attack , its make you feel good eh , nice stuff mate , nice low life Labour Government gutter filth tactics .
October 9th, 2007 at 8:08 am
I wonder if some of this surplus will go into a TV campaign next year explaining what a wonderful thing for Democracy the EFB is?
October 9th, 2007 at 8:10 am
Tane said:
It’s both.
Tane also said:
Cactus Kate said:
*cough*
October 9th, 2007 at 8:11 am
Grant: Interesting theory, but you never can be too sure. I used to think the same thing about Redbait.
Slightlyrighty: CPI is not measured by the Labour Party, it’s done by Stats NZ and is pretty non-controversial. And yes, it does measure housing, groceries and power – http://www.stats.govt.nz/products-and-services/hot-off-the-press/consumers-price-index/
October 9th, 2007 at 8:12 am
philu – yes lazyness should be punished… with a healthy dose of reality.
work hard, live well.
be lazy, live poorly.
make people choose, rather than pay them not to.
and remember – i’m talking here about those that are actually lazy… not those who genuinely need help. which group are you in?
October 9th, 2007 at 8:14 am
Linda, So if the government was running continual deficits would you support raising taxes to reduce or cutting services. Cause the way I see it a lot of people want to have it both ways. They postulate that government surplus should result in tax cuts and government deficit should result in service cuts? That path only leads one place and it should be arrived at by agreement not by default.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:24 am
kk..
have a look at whoar….
and listen to whoar fm one..
and (consider the facts of) my boys glowing school/sports reports..
..then you tell me..eh..?
btw..aside from your mewlings here..
where can your ‘output’ be viewed..?
oh ‘judgmental’ one..?
we still don’t know/have no proof of ‘which group you are in’..eh..?
you could just be yet another ‘all mouth and trousers’ merchant..
eh..?
giz the ‘proof’..!..kk..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 9th, 2007 at 8:25 am
Thanks David, there’s five in my family so thats….nice.
One thing; do we have to pay tax on that?
October 9th, 2007 at 8:26 am
b.t.w..kk..
did you ‘major’ in cliche..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
October 9th, 2007 at 8:29 am
KK – Might take a while for phule to get back to you on that one.
He seems to believe that with his Masters in Politics his is disadvantaged and needs to be on a benefit to raise the nipper, who appears to be 11 or 12 years old.
Apart from the obvious mental problems he seems like he could be a reasonably productive member of society but choses (and is let – it seems by WINZ) to remain on a benefit.
I believe Phule fits the ‘Hammock’ category.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:32 am
Oops no…he trotted out his usual straight away.
Quite why we (taxpayers) are subsidising whoar is unexplained.
Can you full us in phule?
October 9th, 2007 at 8:33 am
Fear not citizens, when King George VII is appointed the throne at the conclusion of her majesties most glorious reign, there will be imminent tax relief. First orders of business: Sell TVNZ, Sell Air New Zealand, commence Senator McCarthy style hearings and take an axe to income tax.
End of Transmission
October 9th, 2007 at 8:34 am
It’s like when Cullen suddenly ‘found’ billions down the back of the sofa just before the last election to put into interest-free loans. A huge sop to the middle classes, but ‘finding’ cash yo didn’t know about is not the mark of a sound economic policy. Labour couldn’t (and can’t) even manage their own party finances without having to dip into our pockets. WHat makes us think they can manage our tax-dollars – Health, Welfare? oh yes. two superb examples of government economic sense.
Efficiency in the civil service – !whoops?
Building schools, rather than blowing cash on badly thought-through prisons.
Writing legislation that says it will introduce fairness into the electoral systen, but which will actually incentivise rorting?
Millions available when Mallard wanted to build a monument to himself in the shape of a stadium, sod all in the pot for hip operations.
And in the meantime, we get taxed on tax (rates) hit in the mortgage, the real value of our wages goes down, and if you have the temerity to complain about being taxed for earning over a paltry $60,000 a tear, you have a bunch of self-righteous sheep bleating about how selfish yu are because on some level, wanting to raise your amily in some comfort as a result of your hard work, should make you some kind of social pariah.
No wonder he wanted to hand out chewing gum, to stop us ‘bleating’ Next year it will be gobstoppers – no superglue, sorry keep forgetting to mention the EFB…
October 9th, 2007 at 8:34 am
Didn’t take long for the trolls to come out from under their bridges did it! Tane & John Dalley are there, right on cue! Tane – this isn’t a thread about National Party tax cuts; it’s about Cullen’s tax cuts – now you see them, now you don’t!
October 9th, 2007 at 8:38 am
Lee C said “Millions available when Mallard wanted to build a monument to himself in the shape of a stadium, sod all in the pot for hip operations.”
Good of you to remember that Lee! Wasn’t it $600m? That was the estimate anyway – I wouldn’t have expected any change out of $1b by the time all was done and dusted. But even the idea worked – it took public discussion off Labour’s pledge card spending and the retrospective validating legislation, which, I’m sure, was all it was ever intended to do!
October 9th, 2007 at 8:40 am
Lee C also said “No wonder he wanted to hand out chewing gum, to stop us ‘bleating’ Next year it will be gobstoppers – no superglue, sorry keep forgetting to mention the EFB…”
No, it’ll be tennis balls and duct tape, lovingly applied by the Member for Dunedin South!
October 9th, 2007 at 8:40 am
Luke, a decent government would adjust based on it’s needs. With an operating surplus they would adjust from year to year (Or 3 to 3) based on how their tax income measures to their expenses with a guaranteed provision of service agreement.
After all, we are paying our taxes to get a minimum service level. That is the agreement or contract between us and government. When we do not get that service level and they keep on taking more and more of our money, they are breaking the implicit contract between us.
Not so good, imo. I’d be happy to pay more if it becomes necessary, however at the moment we are paying too much. The government is running too large a surplus which is not invested in service. So either they need to fix the problems or they need to return the money.
Unfortunately Labour is doing neither, they’re just taking more.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:40 am
“oh Trevor, if you really loved me you’d do something for the sport-people”
‘Sure baby, if I build you a stadium, would that persuade you to give up some candy?…”
October 9th, 2007 at 8:42 am
slightyrighty distrusts the inflation figures. Hoenstly, you need to get some idea of how Sats NZ generates these figures before alleging political influence. Its really conspiracy theory stuff from you.
And I love that you don’t even know whether of not house prices are included (clue: yes they are) yet you feel informed enough from your own anacedotal experience to doubt the validity of the stats.
That said, there are problems with CPI, GDP, productivity and all macroeconomic measures, but they’re design problems, not political ones.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:42 am
Luke… listen carefully…
If the gummint doesn’t have enough money they stick up taxes or reduce spending.. or both. You seem to be suggesting the plebs have some sort of say in this… yea right.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:45 am
phil, i paid more than $100k in tax last year, i help run a school and serve on two charitable trusts as well as help run a youth group (who are just back from building homes for the homeless in mexico, oh and an orphanage and a school). i helped fund their trip. i also find time to enjoy our two children (teens) and am spending quite a bit of time coaching them through their ncea studies just now. my work day starts at 6:30am and I seldom sleep in – even at the weekend – here’s too much to do, so many opportunities and so little time. life’s pretty good. am I ‘judgemental’ – I don’t think so. just realistically observing the way things work in the world.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:47 am
God it’s like interviewing Road-Kill:
‘I was just taking nearly a decade to cross the road, when Whammo! This big truck called ‘problems with CPI, GDP, productivity and all macroeconomic measures, but they’re design problems, not political ones.” Hit me out of nowhere.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:54 am
pascal – you’re right in principle, of course. but whether the services we get in return for the taxation we pay are reaosnable is a matter of debate.
on you’re ‘they keep taking more and more money’ point – um, govt revenue as a percent of GDP is falling (due to reduced taxation and compliance costs on business, and, dpending on how you count it, WfF)… check out Treasury’s budget figures.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:54 am
Sam Dixon: slightyrighty distrusts the inflation figures. Hoenstly, you need to get some idea of how Sats NZ generates these figures before alleging political influence. Its really conspiracy theory stuff from you.
If memory serves me right, around 3 years ago the ACT party highlighted a change in how statistics are recorded.
A lot of it was subtle, but the one that stands out is that deaths were recorded as “Change of circumstance” and so forth. Also changes to the benefit numbers when there was the shift off unemployed and into health and sickness benefits.
Typical juggling of the numbers. Thus, it would not surprise me if the numbers for inflation figures are actually “reinterpreted” to skew it in a positive slant for the government.
I look at how my bills are increasings, compare it to my salary increases and discover that the two are not growing at an equal rate. No matter what the statistics say.
That’s enough for me.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:55 am
Lee C – I don’t get it. When did you interview roadkill?
October 9th, 2007 at 8:56 am
The scourge mac duck caustic pommy history teacher holds a big bag money while the deluded pm sings there is no poverty in New Zealand…….. ??
New Zealands failure as a Nation is why we appear in the medal count for child abuse and infanticide numbers .
Oh well , at least we can be winners at something !!
October 9th, 2007 at 8:57 am
Pascal have you never heard the phrase: ‘Bullshit baffles brains.”
Come on man, play the game!
October 9th, 2007 at 8:58 am
Sam Dixon: you’re right in principle, of course. but whether the services we get in return for the taxation we pay are reaosnable is a matter of debate.
Not really, no. When people are bumped off waiting lists because the hospitals are unable to cope with the load of operations, the service is pretty much not being provided. No real room for debate there.
We’ll see tomorrow what type of surplus the government is running. I’m betting it will be much larger than last year. Keep juggling the numbers though
October 9th, 2007 at 9:03 am
Yeah, Lee C. It is perhaps selfish to look at my own situation, but that’s the basis of any interpretation of how well or how poorly a government is doing, isn’t it? And from my viewpoint the Labour government is a failure. Utterly. Doesn’t matter if they have the pretty pledge cards, Electoral Finance Bill, rugby stadiums or a airbrushed prime ministers. In the words of Shania Twain, “That don’t impress me much”
But I’ve told this story many times before. Waiting for 4 to 6 hours with a baby suspected of having meningicoccal disease in Starship Hospital for a doctor to see us – after having been referred by our local A&E with that diagnosis and having had a call ahead to confirm – that to me personally – signals a failure. The service was NOT there.
To see my father suffer a heart attack because the funding and support for heart stints are not there, and to this day are not, that to me signals a failure. The service was NOT there.
As nih would put it: FAIL!
October 9th, 2007 at 9:08 am
But Pascal – the statistics tell a different story.
The only conclusion I can reach is that you ar a partisan National Party supporter, prepared to knife ‘the poor’ in the back at the drop of a hat.
Bastard.
October 9th, 2007 at 9:12 am
Inflationary pressures rising, a threat of a world credit crunch, war clouds over the Middle East, a severe balance of payments problem.
Mr Farrar’s solution.
Give away the surplus.
This is beyond Voodoo economics, it is the economics of the madhouse.
“David Farrar
Minister of Finance”
We wouldn’t last a week
[DPF: Sonic thinks that we can not afford tax cuts despite having the second largest surplus in the entire world. Of course in Sonic's world one would never give tax back. In fact he wants us more taxed]
October 9th, 2007 at 9:12 am
Bastard
October 9th, 2007 at 9:13 am
Sonic from the madhouse reporting from communist radio lies
October 9th, 2007 at 9:15 am
Don’t worry sonic. Your time will come. Time is a gentleman.
October 9th, 2007 at 9:21 am
Name one honest gentleman in the Labour Party sonic ?
October 9th, 2007 at 9:23 am
i can’t help but despair at the logic of some…. who would see us squander any surplus on bloating the state with negligible improved outcomes or ‘social dividends’…. yet when anyone else suggests that they might be a better way (like using tax money to create growth) then … WHAM – our resident blue-rinse fear-mongering troll spins a cautionary tale of fearful inflation, global instability, potential economic ruin.
October 9th, 2007 at 9:23 am
We can all afford to be flippant when times are good and life is going well, thank yo very much. BUt one day you might find yourslf in a hospital corridor on a two-day wait for an operation you’ve already waited months for to get. And you will be able to look back at all the facile bullshit you spouted in kiwiblog in defence of your glorious government, and be rightly proud of yourself.
Unless you got Health insurance?
October 9th, 2007 at 9:24 am
I only ask because I have never yet met a weekend socialist who wasn’t covered…
October 9th, 2007 at 9:26 am
As one who pays tax on a voluntary basis thru legal tax minimisation it doesnt impact me personally but I do feel for those who arent able to take the same advantage.
The real problem regards over taxation IMHO is as follows
1. The Socialist scare tactics that reduced social services will result from lower taxes whilst the actual outcomes have been reducing over the last 9 years even with record inputs due to misallocation of resources.the bulk of resources now go to unproductive rather than productive areas and in true Socialist style the receiptiants of the resources act like Oliver twist asking for more and more each year whilst producing less and less.
2.Sadly the great unwashed buy the lies from the Socialists as they lack the intellectual ability to question as in 1 above.
3. The result is a Gumint cash grab of fraudulent proportions that is then drip fed back to a grateful population on the basis that the population then votes for the theivinfg bastards who stole the money in the first place.
You Socialist supporters are nothing but collaborators in a vile scheme against your fellow citizens and every one of you deserve their contempt
October 9th, 2007 at 9:34 am
[Deleted by DPF and a formal warning to Tane for breaking a ban by posting on behalf of someone banned]
October 9th, 2007 at 9:35 am
The endless loop you describe gd is actually more of a series of ever decreasing circles. the outcome is certain – the perpetrators will ultimately vanish up their own fundamental orifices.
Unfortunately the rest of us have to watch the shower of shit happening before our eyes.
October 9th, 2007 at 9:36 am
Tane ( green sue ) nobody in there right mind would link to a site crawling with communist cockroaches !!
October 9th, 2007 at 9:36 am
You got Health Insurance Tane?
October 9th, 2007 at 9:38 am
Sonic – you got Health Insurance ?
October 9th, 2007 at 9:38 am
Welcome back Tane.
care to answer my question re the ERA?
G
October 9th, 2007 at 9:40 am
I see the new National party solution to improving hospital care is
Spend less!
Another vote-winner methinks.
October 9th, 2007 at 9:41 am
No Tane, he’s posting over the partition at work and you’re bypassing DPF ban on his posting privileges here at kiwiblog.
October 9th, 2007 at 9:42 am
Sorry to be persistent dear sonic, but do you have Health Insurance ?
October 9th, 2007 at 9:44 am
Da4Justice, why do you continue to try and talk to me when I have no interest at all in responding to you.
You need professional help.
October 9th, 2007 at 9:45 am
Hi Grant, didn’t see your comment. There are a few ways, but one key failure of the ERA is its weak provisions around industry bargaining. Essentially when you’ve got largely enterprise bargaining it’s a race to the bottom because unionised companies that pay their staff well end up at a disadvantage with those that don’t. It also means employers can easily shift work between each other to blunt the effects of industrial action. It’s pretty basic stuff bro.
October 9th, 2007 at 9:48 am
One more time sonic , do you have Health Insurance ?
Look a simple yes or no would do, and please drop the insinuation that I need help, as I am only asking a very simple question ?
What don’t you answer my question truthfully and without malice ?
October 9th, 2007 at 9:48 am
Last time I ever respond to you.
No I do not.
plunk
October 9th, 2007 at 9:50 am
Sonic did you have Health Insurance when you lived in Scotland ?
October 9th, 2007 at 9:50 am
Tane
I understand that, but what I really want to know is what you mean by strengthening. How precisely would you ensure that unionised companies dont become disadvantaged, remembering that the aim is to lift wages all round?
G
October 9th, 2007 at 9:52 am
I see sonic’s rather astute solution to improving hospital care is
Throw more taxpayers cash at it!
But wait haven’t we already tried that, and hasn’t it got us up to the neck in s**t?
October 9th, 2007 at 10:01 am
Dear Sonic,
Like you I can’t afford private Health Insurance, however I am very worried as Alister James writes a CDHB member recently writes ;
” The system is just not working . Its not working for hospitals , I don’t think it’s working for staff, its not working for patients .”
Thank God for the charity hospital in Christchurch . Do you have a charity hospital in your city sonic ?
October 9th, 2007 at 10:05 am
Time to go methinks. Another promising thread about to be disrupted by the imported professional blog poster. Have fun all.
G
October 9th, 2007 at 10:06 am
Like deja vue all over again- All Blacks choke and “Labour’s not Working”, followed by:
“Ten Wasted Years: Is this a fair assessment of the Helen Clark’s tenure as leader of the Labour Party?: Discuss.”
It is a good essay question for Nome with his ‘First Class Honours Degree in Political Science”
October 9th, 2007 at 10:09 am
Sonic: I see the new National party solution to improving hospital care is
It is good seeing that a random post on a blog by anyone is interpreted as National Party policy by Sonic. Do ya think if I posted that National will tax everyone at 100% and create a fully state funded system he’d vote for National then? Bet he would
Either that or it was an attempt at humour that failed miserably.
However Sonic, as we have seen the answer is not to simply throw more money at it. Yes, it is possible that it might need more money – that is an unknown at the moment however. What is required is for people to take a sane look at the system, to identify where the flaws are and to fix them.
My understanding of policy is that it will look at improving the current system that Labour broke so badly.
October 9th, 2007 at 10:11 am
Hey Grant , I think I’ll leave it to the Scottish professional paid communist propaganda liarbour sycophant who sent her dogs Mrs Disgusted and James Sleep to attack my blog overnight .
What a sad sick country .
Do have a good day and for fucks sake John Key get your shit together and call a election now, as enough is enough !!
October 9th, 2007 at 10:21 am
“I see the new National party solution to improving hospital care is Spend less!”
hahahha.. yeah, whereas with Labour, its spend more whilst services deteriorate. What is it/ An extra $50 million and longer waiting lists?? Check the Rennie report you thieving socialist dogmatist.
October 9th, 2007 at 10:36 am
“Yet you banned Robinsod because he was kicking too much Tory arse.”
He was an intellectually weak and ineffectual leftist robot whose frenetic and numerous posts amounted to nothing but clutter. Just another commie bore. Like you actually Tane. Why don’t all you boring leftists just keep your worthless shit on your own fucking blogs?? I’ll tell you why. Nobody gives a fuck about reading such boring commie crap.
Like progressive TV is failing in the US. Like Air America went down the tube. At the same time as FOX News draws record numbers of viewers, many times the number of all of its progressive competitors put together. Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin and a host of other Conservative commentators rule the radio waves.
Wake up to yourself commies. Your time is over, and the only time you can get people to listen to your worthless crap is when you force them to- in schools universities and over government owned broadcasting units. The reality is honest people are sick to death of you and your socialist lies. You should be grateful Mr. Farrar doesn’t ban more of your boring commie arses.
October 9th, 2007 at 11:07 am
“the imported professional blog poster”
Another new recruit for the tinfoil hat brigade.
“the Scottish professional paid communist propaganda liarbour sycophant who sent her dogs Mrs Disgusted and James Sleep to attack my blog overnight .”
You ban robinsod and let this guy witter on David?
Ah well it’s your blog I suppose.
October 9th, 2007 at 11:13 am
I think robinsod was banned for something relating to sexual impropriety/underage sex or something like that, anyway something a bit naughty, which I think DPF referred to as ‘illegal’.
Hang on in there, sonic, hang on a few months and you will be able to have anyone who disagrees with you shut down as illegal. Or as the Law Society put it:
“The [EFB] bill has serious defects, which mean it will not achieve its stated aims. Moreover, it is likely to curtail the legitimate expression of opinions while failing to curb (and potentially even incentivising) clandestine conduct in relation to the electoral process. The bill as a whole represents a backward step in the integrity of democracy in New Zealand.”
October 9th, 2007 at 11:17 am
I’m looking forward to find out how much money has been stolen from the poor to give to the rich.
Single low income earners paying tax from the very first dollar they earn so that people on large incomes get WFF.
October 9th, 2007 at 11:20 am
Mmmm, assuming that you’re in paid employment Sonic, and assuming that you’ve made, let’s say 20 comments today, then it follows that you’re being paid while you post. Ok we probably cant call it professional as such, but how about semi pro then?
Oh by imported, I mean you have only recently arrived here, not that you were brought here for your posting skills alone. I’m sure you were invited here for something else entirely.
G
October 9th, 2007 at 11:43 am
about $800,000 at the last count burt
October 9th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
“assuming that you’ve made, let’s say 20 comments today”
I’ve made about 4, why not take that up with the people who post far more often than me mate.
October 9th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
I’m self employed
October 9th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Actually sonic, it’s six on this thread, but who’s counting?
October 9th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
“Sonic thinks that we can not afford tax cuts despite having the second largest surplus in the entire world.”
As I said never put Mr Farrar up for finance minister. I’m sure we could “afford” tax cuts, sell of a few SOE’s privatise a few schools and hospitals and rent them back, you can do that.
The issue is, when you have inflationary pressures, a labour shortage and a huge current account deficit, personal tax cuts are a bit dumb.
October 9th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
You are pure filth sonic but who is counting snake !
October 9th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
“I’ve made about 4, why not take that up with the people who post far more often than me mate.”
I count 7 in this thread alone…….
have you had those eyes checked yet?
October 9th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
“As I said never put Mr Farrar up for finance minister. I’m sure we could “afford” tax cuts, sell of a few SOE’s privatise a few schools and hospitals and rent them back, you can do that.”
Why do we need to do that when we have had a surplus of cash each and every year that can be used for the cuts?
October 9th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Hey outsmarted like that did you sonic – same time and all , get ready idiot .
October 9th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Meanwhile another operation is cancelled…
October 9th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
And what about inflation Bevan, and the trade deficit.
October 9th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Another patient bites the dust but at least sonic is getting paid to stir shit -eh ?
October 9th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
Ah th trade deficit there’s a topic for discussion. Why is there such a wide one in YHO?
October 9th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
You see for Dr Cullen and his little toadies on this site there is never ever going to be a good time for taxcuts Except that is when they are going into the 08 election and worried about losing.
And that really sums up the Left. Selfish self centred arseholes.
But the really sad reality as I posted before is the vast numbers of cannon fodder that vote for the Socialists without realising how much they are being over taxed and how much of their tax is being wasted by the Gumint they vote for.
And to boot how well some of us on the Right do under a Socialists Gumint as opposed to a Right Gumint.
The reason why some of us want a Right Gumint is that although is will make our individual wealth creation programmes a little tougher to achieve at least the poor sods they are being punished now will get ab even break.
We aint selfish self centred arseholes
October 9th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
We should triple working for families. Surely that won’t be inflationary.
Or I’ve got a better idea! Everybodies’ salaries and wages should be paid straight to the state. Then we can rely on the state to give us what we really need.
October 9th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
“Or I’ve got a better idea! Everybodies’ salaries and wages should be paid straight to the state. Then we can rely on the state to give us what we really need.”
These socialist morons think that if you steal money from a shopkeeper, and spend that money in his shop, you’ll make that shopkeeper a rich man. Straight out of la la land, this belief is the foundation of leftist ideology.
October 9th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
I get $11K a year sonic and I bring up a teenage daughter , what you get a year ?
October 9th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
But milo, think of the potential for waste and innefficiency.
Why, your 6 monthly voucher to draw a new toothbrush from the Central Commisary would be no good once your teeth have fallen out.
October 9th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
wondering what you guys think of this:
Herald: “A compliance cost survey by Business NZ and KPMG showed that the annual cost burden for small companies with less than 10 employees was $2400 per person, down from an average of about $3000 last year, while larger companies with more than 50 staff faced costs of $780 per person, down from just under $1000 last year.” pretty sharp decrease in compliance costs for the capitalists thanks to the socialists huh?
Also, that Kiwisaver seems to be getting great pickup: http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=409#comments
October 9th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Tane
I understand that, but what I really want to know is what you mean by strengthening. How precisely would you ensure that unionised companies dont become disadvantaged, remembering that the aim is to lift wages all round?
G
Because, G, if wage increases are bargained on an industry rather than enterprise level everyone in that industry goes forward together. It means there are industry standards on wages and an end of the race to the bottom that’s a feature of enterprise bargaining. Why else do you think Business NZ and the Nats are so keen on enterprise bargaining?
October 9th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
Sonic: And what about inflation Bevan, and the trade deficit.
And the government’s rampant spending splurge is not inflationary?
October 9th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
““I’ve made about 4, why not take that up with the people who post far more often than me mate.”
Being a bit economical with the truth again there sonic. A quick scout around, taking no longer than 5 minutes, on just one other site reveals your tally for the day to be closer to 55.
Maybe you are a real professional, those threads were well and truly sonicjacked by the time most of their contributors hads retired for the evening.
G
October 9th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
Tane: Because, G, if wage increases are bargained on an industry rather than enterprise level everyone in that industry goes forward together.
You’ve tickled my curiosity. So if the “Software Developers Union” negotiates a 10% increase for all software developers, the one working for Joe Hicks Limited will see an increase from 45Kpa to 49.5k pa, while the one working for Shiny Corporate Co earning 100kpa goes to 110k pa?
October 9th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Thanks for that Tane and, once again, I can see your reasoning but my question to you is what do you feel needs to be done by the government and / or the employers to stop that “race to the bottom” occuring? How exactly should the ERA be strengthened?
G
October 9th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
As usual, Dixon omits the truth.
“KPMG Tax Partner Paul Dunne said there had been a considerable volume of tax changes either announced or implemented in the last year, so tax compliance was set to become more, not less onerous. “There is a significant compliance cost burden imposed by KiwiSaver and this compliance cost spike can be expected to continue as employers make KiwiSaver-related changes to their employment terms,” Mr Dunne said.”
Full comment on the report here- portrays an outcome totally different to the rosy picture Dixon attempts to paint by cherry picking particular aspects.
http://www.kpmg.co.nz/pages/103337.html
October 9th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Pascal
You miss the point. If developers were in the union they would all be on $45K to start with.
October 9th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Or backward together. But keeps union execs employed I guess.
Where this logic fails comprehension is that I believe the wage increases should be linked to productivity increases… and unless we really have arrived at a socialist book-cooking utopia enterprises differ in their productivity within the same industry. So why ask efficient enterprises to subsidise others? No wait, I know the answer. Socialism.
October 9th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
burt or ….the employees (all three of them) would be on union-dictated $110k, there would be only one enterprise operating as the others would have failed with unsustainable wage bills. the balance of industry demand would be serviced from india or china. then the greens would cry fowl over loss of nz jobs etc etc etc.
October 9th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Quite the little stalker eh Grant?
Trawling the web to see where else anyone called “sonic” posts?
Ever thought of getting a life Grant, I mean I am flattered and all but it is a bit of a strange activity for a grown man.
October 9th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
“Ever thought of getting a life Grant, I mean I am flattered and all but it is a bit of a strange activity for a grown man.”
Caught you out good an proper tho didn’t ‘e?? Bludger.
October 9th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Ha Ha
No problem sonic, as I said it only took 5 minutes, and your response is well worth every second.
Not only that, I get to be called a stalker by the guy who claims to run that Hitchenswatch site. A website dedicated to denigrating one individual. What a laugh.
Seriously though, your second sentence is once again an attempt to mislead. The posts I found on Harry’s Place are yours without doubt, as anyone else who feels like having a look at how you contribute to your adopted country’s productivity will agree, complete with your smarmy mocking style and references to living here in New Zealand. http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/
As to getting a life, I have one, and I enjoy it. I also can’t see that exposing parasites like you is a strange activity, rather I see it more as a civic duty. You, however, may want to revaluate your priorities given the rather large trail of commercial inactivity you leave all over the blogosphere.
G
October 9th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
g – what was the site? it’s possible it’s a different poster. the writing style would confirm one way or the other
October 9th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
Guess what? He’s calling those who differ with him insane- hahah.. just for a change.. what a pathetic little wanker..
October 9th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
Tane
perhaps your theory of unions effecting the entire sector is best represented by the public service.
General public service get 2-3% increases every year under the PSA and the senior MP’s get 8-9% outside the PSA.
Yet you advocate the union as being a good thing? Please explain how the example set by a Govt that supports unions and collective bargaining supports your (and it’s own) position.
October 9th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
No it’s me, I just think it’s rather odd that Grant is trawling the internet looking for posts by me.
Perhaps a bit unhealthy?
“As to getting a life, I have one, and I enjoy it”
Well it’s your life Grant, but trust me I wouldn’t spend 30 seconds counting how many posts you made at various blogs, you are really not worth the trouble.
Tell you what though, do you want me to give you the telephone number of my boss so you can report me?
October 9th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
burt – um, MPs aren’t part of the public service.
the comparison should be with same jobs, one ununionised, one unionised if you want to draw usable conclusions.
Pascal – collective agreements can allow for different percentage increases for workers of different grades if need be – look at teachers, nurses, doctors – all their wages are negioated by cross-enterprise agreements.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Hey fullas, regarding this ERA discussion, I frankly can’t be arsed dealing with your level of ignorance on the issue. I could sit here and reply to every misinformed red herring or prejudice you throw at me, but I’ve got better things to do. I’ll post on this over on The Standard at some stage and we can have a good yarn then.
I’ll just leave one reply for Pascal – according to a study just released in Australia, workers on individuals are paid $106 a week less than those on the collective:
http://finsec.wordpress.com/2007/10/04/individual-agreements-106-worse-per-week-for-aussie-workers/
October 9th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Hi Tane, thanks for that.
G
October 9th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
“Sonic: And what about inflation Bevan, and the trade deficit.
And the government’s rampant spending splurge is not inflationary?
”
Looks like your question to me has already been answered by someone else there sonic, care to reply? Or do you fold?
October 9th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
I thught ‘No, I’ll ignore my knee-jerk tendencies and check out the link Sam Dixon indicated The STANDARD – and then the KPMG one.
I’ve got to say that the Standard one was essentially a letter by Sam Dixon I quote:
“Sam Dixon
Oct 9th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
what I love about politics are those moments when something truely surprises who ‘you sit and say ‘holy shit”, I got that when Key said the war was over the other day (just because I couldn’t believe a leader of a major party was so disconnected with reality), I got it with that poll that had Labour 20% behind, and I got it now – 200,000, already! that’s well above treaury forecasts.
I remember when the details of MarkII were released thinking, given the incentives, treasury was being conservative in its estimate of the pickup rate but 200,000 in three months that’s impressive. At this rate it’ll be 750,000 to 1,000,000 by election time. No prizes, then, for guessing which way National will, eventually, decide to flop on this one.
2 all_your_base
Oct 9th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
Yeah Sam, I was exactly the same with Key’s Iraq comment. I reckon it’s got some political life in it yet
And btw, congrats on your letter to the ed the other day… nice.”
So Sam I have to congratulate you. You actually got a job which pays you blog all day.
btw And the style – just sooo fluffy!
Well done you!
The kpmg was a bit more serious.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
“I frankly can’t be arsed dealing with your level of ignorance on the issue. I could sit here and reply to every misinformed red herring or prejudice you throw at me, but I’ve got better things to do.”
Translation: WAA WAA WAA, you dont believe the crap coming out of my mouth so Im going to go away and cry!
October 9th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
“I’ll just leave one reply for Pascal – according to a study just released in Australia, workers on individuals are paid $106 a week less than those on the collective:”
Except it dopesn’t say that. What it says is that workers on collective agreements earn more on average. This is probably becasue most collective agreements exist at large mine sites and the like. Where people are paid more not because of any “collective agreement” per se, but because the job is worth more. The survey does not prove one alternative is superior to the other.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/people-who-sign-up-to-awas-earn-less-study-shows/2007/10/01/1191091029953.html
October 9th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Ulp Grant – I think you just upset sonic.
Mind you looking at the beating he’s still getting at Harrys Place its not surprising he’s getting a little ……prickly, is it?
October 9th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Sam Dixon – how much money do you get to blog all year ?
October 9th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Is the Standard funded by the Labour Party?
October 9th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Are blogs covered by the EFB?
October 9th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Sonic is just a communist snake . Just stand on the piece of shit !!!
October 9th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
Is your annual salary the personal price yu go for to annhilate freedom of speech for other people?
October 9th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
Or is it just a hobby?
October 9th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
Yes who pays the Standard ferryman – you liarbour snakes ??
October 9th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
How much does the standard cost the taxpayer you socialist slime balls !!!!!!!!!!
October 9th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
” government’s rampant spending splurge”
Well if we take out the emotive language and you mean is increasing government spending inflationary?
Well yes, all spening is. However it all depends on what the money is being spent on. Capital spending does suck up resources in the same way private sector spending does, however wage rises for very low paid workers (or working for famalies) is far less infationary that a fat tax cut for the very rich (which tends to get spent on imported luxury goods of property)
Kiwisaver is actually anti-inflationary as it sucks money out of people’s wage packet and into saving.
So it all depends Bevan, what you are spending and how you are paying for it.
Sorry to have burdened you with actual facts, I’ll leave you to simplistic soundbites.
A bit too complex for you
October 9th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
LeeC – that was my comment you posted, there was a post there too, not by me. Sorry if my style was ‘fluffy’ then, its usually more robust, as you know. And as you can clearly see from the posts there, I don’t contribute to The Standard.
D4J – I post less than you, how much do you get paid to post all year?
LeeC- the other day Tane stated he and the others who write on the Sttandard have no funding from anyone. Why would you need any? What are the costs in running a blog? DPF concurred with those points.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
sonic – that truly is a big pile of crap.
The rich tend to invest.
People on working for families or other windfall benefits tend to buy luxury items… flat screen tv’s etc.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
D4J,,
Do you know what a communist is, do you know what a snake is
do you know how to stand on a piece of shit
(who taught you how to parrot those expressions,, where do you learn to form sentences)
how have you learned to tap your beak on the correct letters to form words
October 9th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
Emotive language has only just started sonic,as you liarbour socialist corrupt people have left a very sour taste in the mouths of most New Zealanders . People are sick and tired of the lies and they want a better country to live in .
I suggest Helen Clark stand down , and country go to polls because the political corruption is overwhelming .This government is disgusting .
October 9th, 2007 at 2:36 pm
Chickenlittle, the guy you think is giving me a beating is the loony that runs this blog.
http://leninstombwatch.blogspot.com/
Trust me, him claiming he is winning a debate is like Ratbleater claiming to be objective.
Still go along and leave him a comment, it will make his day!
October 9th, 2007 at 2:36 pm
He brings it on himself . Same as he does here, must be a sort of cyber masochism.
G
October 9th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
RedBaiter. Well reasoned comment. Definitely saved me having to read it myself (I expected that was probably the case when I first heard about that study).
Someone needs to review similar people in similar industries, and see whether those unionised or those on individual contracts get paid more.
When working at a govt agency in Wellington I clearly remember one of my staff deciding to move away from the union award onto an individual contract. She got a substantial pay rise for the simple reason that she was very good at her job – we paid her what she was worth. When the union was negotiating for her all they used to get was cost of living plus a little bit. The problem was that most of the people the union represented were wasters, so if your pay rise was the average of what those people were worth, you were always going to do poorly.
Individual contracts are an advantage for those who are marketable, who have good skills, and who have a good attitude. Unions are an advantage for those who don’t like to work, and aren’t prepared to offer value to their employer. The current arrangements, where you can choose a union or choose to negotiate for yourself, suit everyone. If you’re a waster you can join a union, if you are good at your job you can negotiate for yourself. Some of the fine print, where Labour attempted to advantage those with a union over other bargaining arrangements were a step backwards, thankfully they haven’t tried to force us back to compulsary unionism and industry bargaining the way Tane wants.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Obviously Sam you don’t read the thread , typical one sided twit , $11,000 a year and you ?
October 9th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
Grant, want me to send you a signed photo, you could put it on your wall and sigh when you looked at it.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Sorry Sam , didn’t quite catch your salary again matey !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 9th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Fuck off sonic !!!
October 9th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
“Well yes, all spening is. However it all depends on what the money is being spent on. Capital spending does suck up resources in the same way private sector spending does, however wage rises for very low paid workers (or working for famalies) is far less infationary that a fat tax cut for the very rich (which tends to get spent on imported luxury goods of property)”
So why is your arguement against Tax cuts being that they are inflationary? Yet you dont seem to mind increased spending causing inflation – Whats that word again….. hypocrite?
“Kiwisaver is actually anti-inflationary as it sucks money out of people’s wage packet and into saving.”
They we go lads, sonic’s dream is to make everyone poorer – I sure hope its not Labour’s dream. Oh Wait.
“So it all depends Bevan, what you are spending and how you are paying for it.”
So what has that extra spending got us? If we look at health in particular Have waiting lists decreased? What about bed numbers, have they increased? Nurses Pay? Doctors Pay? Hmmm, wonder if my pregnant wife will get a bed when she goes into labor?
“Sorry to have burdened you with actual facts, I’ll leave you to simplistic soundbites.”
So where are those facts again, I must have missed them. All I saw was the typical drivel spewed forth by a deranged socialist.
“A bit too complex for you”
Bit too simplistic, even from you my highland friend.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Sam, So contributing to the dismantlement of free speech for others, is, for you, just a hobby then?
October 9th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
“So where are those facts again, I must have missed them”
It seems you did, I’m wondering if your are pretending to be stupid or being stupid?
All spending is inflationary in some way, tax cuts are the most inflationary.
Got that?
Kiwisaver is anti-inflationary as it encourages savings, how you can claim that having savings ” makes “people poorer” is just nonsense.
You know Bevan I used to think that unlike some of the ranting nutters around here you had a bit of sense, that post shakes my faith a bit.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Kiwi saver is just another tax grab .
October 9th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
I wonder if someone ended the year with some savings if DPF would accuse them of being “overpaid”
October 9th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Smarm all you like, sonic, make all the snarky little comments you like, but the reality is that you have been outed. For thos wondering why I bother to show you up like this, the reason is simple: Next time we’re about to buy into a sonic threadjacking, remember these posts and remember that we’re fuelling the ego of a sorry wretch who spends hours wasting his employers time and money.
Re the photo: I’ve already got one thanks.
G
October 9th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
To Sir David Farrar
I think you got confused when you signed your letter Minister of Finance , as it should have been Media Minister of kiwiblogosphere and red fox supreme green leader is livid .
A working class hero is something to be .
Kind regards
Concerned citizen
October 9th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
“It seems you did, I’m wondering if your are pretending to be stupid or being stupid?
All spending is inflationary in some way, tax cuts are the most inflationary.
Got that?
Kiwisaver is anti-inflationary as it encourages savings, how you can claim that having savings ” makes “people poorer” is just nonsense.”
Sonic, sonic, sonic – I guess these paragraphs just show the diference in our thinking, you are of course a deranged socialist, and I am after all an evil baby eating capitilist…..
But, you said it depended on what the spending was on, I did ask in particular about health and how that has sucked a great portion of cash into its rather large belly without any obvious improvements in service – now why did you forget to address that?
“You know Bevan I used to think that unlike some of the ranting nutters around here you had a bit of sense, that post shakes my faith a bit.”
Now now sonic, dont get touchy – I was about tel tell D4J to fuck off himself, but if you dont want to be my friend anymore……
Maybe “deranged socialist” was a bit much, imagine if I remarked about the anniversary of a certain scumbags death – Believe me, I had a good one for you
October 9th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
“but the reality is that you have been outed”
As someone who posts on a blog?
I think people already knew that Grant, but it’s your time if you want to waste it.
I’ve got this image of Grant a work (I assume you work) counting up every post I make a day “One, two, three” and perhaps putting them into a handy spreadsheet!
Still that is not a waste of your employers time is it?
“Re the photo: I’ve already got one thanks”
Oh when rattled the pretendy hard man comes to the fore!
Know where I live as well?
Off home now, thanx for the laughs Grant. I’ll try and find a new blog to post on tomorrow, just to give you some variety in your obsessive counting.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
Just to reiterate, Sam Dixon, are you saying that to your knowledge there is no link between the ‘standard’ blog and the Labour Party or the Government?
Or are you saying if you have knowledge of that, yo are refusing to discuss it?
Or that you do not know either way?
October 9th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
“Sonic, sonic, sonic – I guess these paragraphs just show the diference in our thinking”
I’m talking about facts and you are talking about nothing?
What part of that do you actually disagree with?
(oh and never had a lot of time for old Che, not after he strangled that puppy)
October 9th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
Sam Dixon –
Are you employed by the Government, the Labour Party or the Civil Service?
October 9th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
I would have worded the letter like this:
Dear NZ Tax Payer,
Due to our ability to ring cash out of working New Zealanders we have ended up with a surplus of 8 Billion dollars.
It was our intention to use this as tax cuts in election year to steal the National Parties thunder, as they scared us to death by nearly winning the last election.
However we came up with a stunning initiative known as the EFB which means we can silence any criticism in election year and our strategists now think tax cuts will be unnecessary. You can count in us however to continue to finance a bloated bureaucracy and maitain and accentuate inefficiencies in the economy.
Yours Frugally
Micky Mouse
October 9th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
LeeC- how would I know anything about The Standard? I just read it and make a few posts there. Ask Tane, he writes for it, he said the other day he’s a union activist (hardly surprising when you see his posts).
“Sam Dixon -
Are you employed by the Government, the Labour Party or the Civil Service?”
No.
October 9th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
I ask Sam Dixon, because you have a wide swathe of statistics always to hand, and your opinions are always favourable to the Government – why is that?
Where do you find the time to collate these stats and hold down a job?
October 9th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Sam Dixon – Are you Helen Clark?
October 9th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
Grant said “Smarm all you like, sonic, make all the snarky little comments you like, but the reality is that you have been outed.”
Well done Grant – you should be an investigative journalist! That huuryupharry blog was a fun read eh! But I think this one was the clincher for outing our Celtic nate:
“”Perhaps Sonic would like to show us how the anti boycott campaign was funded.”
I’ve no idea, however are you saying that there are no “well funded groups” who might have taken legal action?
Thought not.
Posted by sonic at October 8, 2007 08:53 PM”
Now, where else have I seen someone else called sonic sign off threads with “Thought not”?
Gottim, yes!
October 9th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
great letter Micky Mouse – over and out – cheers Donald Duck ( not a mucus mallard idiot duck either sonic or sam ) roger that Helen ………
October 9th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
btw appropo of nuthn Someone just told me tht the All Blacks and ADIDAS have got together to promote a new line of sports-bras – loads of support, but no cup….
October 9th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
LeeC – its called having the internet and being a skilled researcher.
If only most of the people on these threads had the forethought to look up the facts before posting, we might not have so many ignorant comments.
October 9th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
Kiwi saver is just another tax grab .
D4J, kiwisaver is voluntary and it remains YOUR money if you decide to be in. You just can’t touch it for a while. How is that a tax grab.
October 9th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
“LeeC – its called having the internet and being a skilled researcher. ”
Modest arnt we?
October 9th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Bevan – no, most people have the internet these days.
October 9th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
Sam Dixon – And the ‘holding down a job’ part of the question?
October 9th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
Is research your job?
October 9th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Dear Andrew Ban ,
After the embarrassment you suffered on this site not too long ago it is a wonder you have the cheek to post on here at all, as you lack credibility .
You are a silly old sausgage aren’t you handy andy ?
Have a nice day , must go plant me lettuces , you like ….oh why bother ….
October 9th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
DPF, I’m surprised you need to ask:
Sadly, it’s not, as redbaiter posits, because they are all “gutless socialist sycophants”. I say “sadly” because the reality is far sadder for our democracy. Putting journalists in a lockup prior to the budget has been completely unnecessary for around 20 years, since Finance Ministers stopped suddenly increasing taxes on booze, cigarettes and the like.
It’s still done simply because it makes the journalists feel special. They apply for access (which ought to be theirs as of right as representatives of the Fourth Estate) and are granted access to the inner circle. They’re relieved of mobile phones and other communication devices at the door and otherwise made to feel that they are a special, elite group of privileged people upon whom the Minister of Finance is bestowing great favour.
A secondary advantage to the Government of the day (and Nation al play this game too) is that the journos are unable to consult with anyone outside the lockup (e.g. an economist or two) who could help them write a proper analysis.
So the end result is that a bunch of journalists, having had their tummies scratched for the afternoon, are turned out just before deadline with only the politicians’ and public servants’ spin to write about.
Meanwhile Tane points out:
I agree. And there’s some of us (I think krazykiwi is pretty much saying the same thing, so that makes at least two people!) who don’t mind our taxes being spent to support those in genuine need.
There’s no doubt taxpayers deserve some of their money back. There’s also no doubt that some social services – health in particular – are in an appalling state. Spend some, give some back… either option, or a judicious mixture of both, is a better option than keeping it, crowing about it, then using it to buy votes.
October 9th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Lee C Says:
“October 9th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
Sam Dixon – And the ‘holding down a job’ part of the question?”
its magic.
look, when i hear that recorded crime has risen or fallen, or that unemployment is down, or that house prices are up my first question is ‘why?’ and I then set about finding out by going to the pprimary sources (ie where the those numbers came from) and having a close look at them and reading any professioanl analysis of them,, That’s why I come to different conclusions than monkeys who just scream ‘its the gummit’s fault’.
I’m not a Labour supporter, and my approach would not change if National were in Government – you’ll just have to take my word for that because last time that happened the internet barely existed (and, if memory serves, there were still dinosaurs) and its going to be some time (7 years?) before it happens again.
October 9th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
So, why is there such a paucity of skilled research when you come in here and support the EFB?
October 9th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
In closing this subject:
sonic said
“I’ve got this image of Grant a work (I assume you work) counting up every post I make a day “One, two, three” and perhaps putting them into a handy spreadsheet!
Still that is not a waste of your employers time is it?”
I’m self employed, as I’ve told you before. You’re a bludger, also as I’ve told you before. Who’s in a better position to criticise his countrymen?
When rattled… Whatever
Good luck with finding the new blog. Does it mean that you’ll staying away from this one?
As someone , (who wants to famous), once said…..”Thought not”
G
October 9th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
LeeC – poor research, check the EFB threads, i think i’ve posted maybe twice on them, and not supporting the EFB itself.
btw, My views on electoral reform are similiar to Graeme Edgeler’s. why? because we’ve both done research on the issue and he’s done more work as part of the COG on electoral reform than just about anyone in the country – what he says makes a lot of sense.
October 9th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
D4J, I made a comment and was attacked for not knowing what I was talking about, when I knew exactly what I was talking about. I questioned that person’s credentials, which in the surface appeared to be bogus. It turn out I was wrong to question them (as they were to question mine) and I apologised for it. The apology was graciously accepted.
When was the last time you admitted you were wrong and apologised for your appalling behaviour?
I just pointed out to you that kiwisaver isn’t a tax grab. Abusing me, sonic, Helen Clark, the Labour Party or the rest of the world, won’t change that fact. Still, I shouldn’t expect anything reasonable to come out of your keyboard, when complete and utter nonsense is all you are capable of.
October 9th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
sorry Andrew Bannister , I didn’t mean to offend you , sorry mate . I’d too many kicks to head when I playing rugby and we used to ruck .
I do apologize for causing unnaturalness stress. No hard feelings ?
October 9th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
4 THOUSAND MILLION! THAT IS OBSENE! When Cullen was trying to tell us in the house today that its alright to tax people under the average 33%. WHAT A CUNT. Sorry Dave Idont use that word unless I mean it.
October 9th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
“In closing this subject”
Good call Grant, good call
Nice detective work inventory2, however you could have just read my post above where I say ‘It is me”
Still 10/10 for effort!
October 9th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
sonic said “Nice detective work inventory2, however you could have just read my post above where I say ‘It is me”
Still 10/10 for effort!”
Cheers sonic – compliments accepted in the spirit in which they were accorded!
October 9th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
Nice one Inventory, touche!
October 9th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Lets get angry here , i know i spit the dummy at times , but the leftist arseholes rip me of every morning when i start work at 5.30 am,im taxed to death and im a tradesman and idiots like sonic and selma and the other educated NON WORKING leftest who think they are NZ workers, shit soft handed wankers who have read a few books on the 51 strike, Shit i dont give crap about that but the black albatross , barren witch who rules us hasnt sweated in honest work in her life , a airconditioning unit break down isnt classed as work,if she sweats , PS DID SHE ENJOY WATCHING THE BLACKS CHOKE UNDER HER GOVT??? IN FRANCE, i sweated for her trip SONIC,(DID) you(you) old professional leftist you,???? J
October 9th, 2007 at 6:01 pm
Chill out John for goodness sake.
October 9th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
You are missing the point Sonic. New Zealand soclialists such as youself are becoming the new bourgeousie, living off the sweat of the honest workers, such as John.
What you don’t seem to realise is that some of these workers are pissed off, and ready to revolt.
You taxpayer funded politically correct socialists are the new landlords. Quite literally, in economic terms. You extract rents from the rest of society, in return for which you contribute little except lectures.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
” New Zealand soclialists such as youself are becoming the new bourgeousie, living off the sweat of the honest workers, such as John”
Well that is a lovely little fantasy world you have created there Nilo. May i ask when I get the top hat?
National party supporters standing up against the evil “bourgeousie”, now I’ve seen everything.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Sonic:
D4J suffers from multiple personality disorder. “John” is just one of his numerous aliases – and keep an eye out for “Spiny Norman” too.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Sorry sonic but I don’t like evil cake , are the National really like that ? Oh dear, that is not not nice is it ?
October 9th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
Sam Dixon you are correct my research was poor –
I have read and digested your two posts on September Fifth as well as the Bell Gully article and your point about questioning the impartiality of those legal bodies that might support the National position on the EFB.
In strict terms you were telling the truth, and I have now gained an insight into why you express yourself as you did.
I hope you will accept my apologies.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
David Farrar and John can you put Mr Waste Oil down the sewer and them / her/ he which is incorrect . I post from one IP address thank you you very much .
October 9th, 2007 at 7:15 pm
If I am incorrect them ban me for 4 months now or that waste oil thing ?
Kind regards
October 9th, 2007 at 7:15 pm
Yes D4J – you post from one IP address, but under different names. We’re not stupid. The unique riting style gives you away.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
I am sorry Peak the Sneak , but you are wrong and I can prove it .
October 9th, 2007 at 7:28 pm
Sonic: you want a top hat? Don’t worry, Michael Cullen can afford to buy you one!
October 9th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Milo’s comments about the Johns of our country were right on the nail.
People such as John are the sleeping giants of our country and, by the time Milo learns how to spell “bourgeoisie”, these giants could rise and deal with the pathetic Sonics of our nation.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
Burgeoisie! No, hang on. Bourgeoise? Bugger, I mean, Bougeoisie … No? Oh, fuck it.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Everybody want so be…bougie bougie….
October 9th, 2007 at 9:54 pm
when are we going to accept that it is a privilege to pay taxes
you only pay tax on profit.
October 9th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
remember Ernesto Guevara de la Serna today.
October 9th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
DPF:
The linked article doesn’t seem to mention a “lock-up”. Is there definitely going to be one?
Also, I’d be interested to know if there’s a precedent for a media lock-up – other than for the annual budget round. Does anyone know?
October 10th, 2007 at 12:45 am
“Sadly, it’s not, as redbaiter posits, because they [the media] are all “gutless socialist sycophants”. ”
Yes it is. The large majority of them anyway.
October 10th, 2007 at 5:48 am
Morris said “remember Ernesto Guevara de la Serna today.”
No, I won’t. Che was a fool and a sacrificial lamb (after his fallout with Fidel, who now denies it).
Very easy and comfortable to praise the virtues of Guevara froma distance. Your opinion would’ve been very different had you been in Bolivia in 1967.
Forget those false idols.
October 10th, 2007 at 6:18 am
What time does the lockdown end?
October 10th, 2007 at 8:34 am
i thought this was an interesting post on this same topic – good to get another perspective…
http://www.publicaddress.net/default,4525.sm#post4525
October 10th, 2007 at 8:42 am
It’s a bit late and al, what with 220+ comments already, but…
From Rebel Radius off Generation-XY blog:
October 10th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
From Stuff:
So thats double the $1B they are usually out by then.
Where’s my fricking chewing gum?
October 10th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Cullen chewed it up and spat it out in your face SMM! Add this year’s surplus to the two previous, as English asked Cullen to do in the Hosue today, and you have a cumulative surplus of in excess of $26b over three years!
There must be an election to purchase somewhere around the corner!
October 10th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
$8.7bill it is!!!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4232820a10.html
Now owth 1.4mill FTE in the workforce I make that over $6,200 each!
October 10th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
“[Deleted by DPF and a formal warning to Tane for breaking a ban by posting on behalf of someone banned]”
oh ffs DPF – for a self proclaimed “liberal” you really are a bit of a belligerent buggar at times.
October 10th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
His blog.
His rules.
Don’t like it?
Fuck off.
October 10th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
$8.7bill it is!!!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4232820a10.html
Now owth 1.4mill FTE in the workforce I make that over $6,200 each!
Oh I loved this line:
“I’m sure my colleagues will have many ways to spend that,”
They just dont realise that it is not their money!
October 10th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
what SMM said
October 10th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
“His blog.
His rules.
Don’t like it?
Fuck off.”
Yes it is DPF’s blog – so he’ll decide if I can post here or not – not you.
October 10th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Oh ffs RN – stop being such a frightful cad.
And it’s another own goal to Roger Nome. Give him a hand folks!
October 10th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
“And it’s another own goal to Roger Nome. Give him a hand folks!”
Funny, I thought you came off looking like a bit of a prat there – treating this space like it’s your own, speaking on David’s behalf.
October 10th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
Wrong again nome – it’s DPF’s blog, and anyone else is welcome to visit, to comment, to participate in discussions, subject to the posting policy which is openly displayed.
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/posting_policy
Pretty basic stuff really roger nome.
October 10th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
I’m sorry, what?
1. You come whinging to DPF about him censoring Tane.
2. I explain the rules DPF has set out and intermitently reminds everyone about when they step too close to the line in the Kiwiblog sandpit.
3. You then whinge at me for reminding you of those rules, all the while being a hypocrite remonstrating that DPF is the only one who can decide whether a person is allowed to post or not. Please refer to point #1.
4. I humourously describe point #3.
5. You object to me succintly pointing out the rules that DPF has.
My point? It’s much less fun when you have to explain jokes to people.
Sorry about that people.
Roger Nome = joke.
Back on topic: what about that surplus eh, by gum, what what?!
October 10th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
$8,ooo,ooo,ooo,ie $8billion + surplus , Fuck im glad i have added with my sweat to that pile of mola ,SONIC, you leftist party member, a worker ,ha but hell i see we gave a $1000000 ie one million bucks into the secret palistinian slush fund, but shit my mother in law a stunch(NOT NOW)a very ex labour party public member lost a leg , NO MONEY FOR SURGERY, MR SCROOGE cullem ie ( KILL EM) likes swimming in our collective sweat. soft hands labour, and key ,nats, the two parties colour make a dirty purple, and being a printer of books ,i know about dirty purples, tweedle dums and tweedle dumbers ,we the workers are sheep. J
October 10th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
If the government overtaxes you it doesnt mater because all that means is there is more money in the kitty for the next government to give you back.
It is like putting money in a bank.
The problem only realises itself if the governmet gets tempted to spend that money on somthing stupid.
October 10th, 2007 at 9:18 pm
GNZ – yeah, if a) the govt gives it back to who the took it from, and not someone else, b) if you didn’t need the money this year instead of the govt hanging onto it for a while and then giving it back, c) if you don’t count the deadweight cost of taxation, and d) if, as you say, they don’t waste it in the meantime