Wainui on Mallard
There was a classic item on TV3 Nightline last night. They decided to interview some locals in Wainui on what should happen to Trevor Mallard. Now I thought it would just be supportive locals saying hey nothing wrong with a bit of biffo.
But the segment with the large Maori truck driver was just priceless. It goes like this:
Duncan Garner: What should Helen Clark do to Trevor Mallard?
Wainui Truck Driver: Well bro, everytime I’ve lifted a hand at somebody and whacked them, I’ve been arrested and handcuffed and taken in. Don’t know why he hasn’t been done.
Duncan Garner: Would you like to see him sacked from Cabinet, resign from Parliament?
Wainui Truck Driver: I’d like to see him arrested just like us old nigger boys
Duncan is going on about demotions, while the driver is saying arrest and handcuff the bastard, just like would happen to “us old nigger boys”. It was superb.
Incidentally a friend from Wainui (yes I have them 
) knows the truck driver in question and says he is a great example of someone turning their lives around. He was a long term beneficiary with his share of legal problems who used a WINZ grant to set up his own business, which is now very successful. Good on him.
October 31st, 2007 at 8:39 am
100%
October 31st, 2007 at 8:42 am
Saw that too…very funny and very correct.
October 31st, 2007 at 8:47 am
yeah it was funny surprising they didn’t blip him..
… so ong-term benificairy uses WINZ grant to start business.. its, its almost like the social safety-neet under Labour is working
October 31st, 2007 at 8:48 am
He was a long term beneficiary with his share of legal problems who used a WINZ grant to set up his own business, which is now very successful.
Wicked, I like hearing about success stories like that! Now just wish I could take my middle class butt and get a successful business going……
October 31st, 2007 at 8:49 am
ha ha sam dixon. yes, good to see. safety nets, most shades of the spectrum agree, are important.
October 31st, 2007 at 8:49 am
would WINZ start up grants be cut by National?
Collins is always going on about benificairy spending – she’s either going to have to cut core payments or add-ons like this – total numbers are already faling at a record rate.
October 31st, 2007 at 8:51 am
15 mins for Sam to point out the benefits for labour in that story!!!!
Not bad, not bad.
October 31st, 2007 at 8:54 am
Sam – and why should they bleep him?
October 31st, 2007 at 8:55 am
“He was a long term beneficiary with his share of legal problems who used a WINZ grant to set up his own business, which is now very successful. Good on him.”
What I love about DPF is the shameless way he fabricates things. Get that boy into Parliament tout suite.
[DPF: You don't get to call me a liar on my own blog. Take this as a formal warning. My friend told me about his background in front of around six other people]
October 31st, 2007 at 8:55 am
Good thread jack Sam!!!!!
Actually, a WINZ startup grant makes good sense as it is a one off cost, signifying a hand up, not a hand out. This is a good use of public money. It has obviously helped this individual and his family (I assume). He now appears to have a greater self value and a better understanding of actions and consequences as they apply to him.
He can also pick out a double standard pretty well too.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:01 am
From publish time to thread jack 15 minutes. David, they must be very concerned about kiwiblog if they now have a number of fucktards constantly hitting refresh poised to spoil debate on this site.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:03 am
“[DPF: You don’t get to call me a liar on my own blog. Take this as a formal warning. My friend told me about his background in front of around six other people]“
I would like to believe you, I really would.
But I can’t. I genuinely don’t believe you.
[DPF: In that case I am happy to rescind commenting rights. If you are going to call me a liar without a shred of evidence, you have no interest in genuinely contributing to a debate here.]
October 31st, 2007 at 9:03 am
NPoG – there was no fabrication whatsoever in what DPF said …. simply a statement of fact.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:03 am
so ong-term benificairy uses WINZ grant to start business.. its, its almost like the social safety-neet under Labour is working
Well it sounds like the way National would do things, give the guy the ability to bribng himself out of poverty, rather than drip feeding the poor guy just enough to get buy so then they are stuck in the welfare cycle and forced to vote Labour in the hope that they will raise the benefit – unfortunately though that pay rise will never make them better off as when their dole goes up so does the price of just about everything else.
But thanks Sam, nice of you to admit welfare doesnt work.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:05 am
“NPoG – there was no fabrication whatsoever in what DPF said …. simply a statement of fact.”
LOL, were you one of the six people he claims he heard it said in front of?
October 31st, 2007 at 9:09 am
Bevan, welfare does ‘work’. as you rightly point out if keeps many people fearful of voting anything other than labour.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:11 am
Be easy enough to verify – may I ask why you think DPF would make that up anyway?
October 31st, 2007 at 9:12 am
Great. Is this truck driver aware that he is now being held up as an example of why policies work by both sides?
Poor dude, just trying to make a living.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:13 am
Fantastic story of self-reliance and initiative. Good on Winz for helping him off the safety net and into his own business.
Of course working for families has made this harder. Why take the risk on your own business when you take a minimal wage and make it up with government handouts?
A few rungs missing on the ladder of opportunity boys ….
October 31st, 2007 at 9:15 am
DPF – Ban that fucktard Natural will you please.
Then he/she can go over to The Average and cry with Robinsod and the other usual suspects about how they stuck it to you and you couldn’t handle it so unfairly banned them.
Crying Lefties turns me on
But seriously, bit over the top there Natural, don’t you think?
October 31st, 2007 at 9:15 am
“may I ask why you think DPF would make that up anyway?”
so idiots can say things like this: “Fantastic story of self-reliance and initiative.”
October 31st, 2007 at 9:18 am
back to topic – this guy is perfect proof that the general public notice how this govt operates.
‘
Other examples would include – speeding through Canterbury, forged signatures, stealing their money for pledge cards, and for balance ‘gone by lunchtime’.
The public are smarter than people think – hence the reason I support referendums for many many things.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:18 am
NPOG: Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, did we? Better be careful, the wind will change and then you’ll have that scowl forever !
October 31st, 2007 at 9:19 am
“He was a long term beneficiary with his share of legal problems who used a WINZ grant to set up his own business, which is now very successful. Good on him.”
Yes – it’s good to see the effects of Labour’s active labour market policies (task force green etc ….) providing former “long term beneficiaries” with jobs (unemployment is now at 3.8% – nearly the lowest of all OECD countries). What was the best National could manage in the 1990s? Something like 6% wasn’t it? Goes to show punishing people with starvation benefits doesn’t get people into jobs – providing a quality job seeker service, and relevant skill training does.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:19 am
take the power away from govt and give it to the people!
October 31st, 2007 at 9:22 am
Ha! Who’s the idiot if it IS true? Haven’t seen the clip, but jeez, chances are I know the guy.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:27 am
If DPF or a mod could please delete my previous, and I’ll recast it so it makes sense. Thanks.
More to the point, Sam, nice to see a Bro who acknowledges that when he screwed up there were consequences that should apply to everyone regardless of race or position. And he didn’t explain that when he “lifted a hand at somebody and whacked them” it was the result of colonialist neo-liberal oppression.
Interesting to compare and contrast with Mallard’s apologists who can help but say “of course there’s not excuse for what Trevor did, but…”
October 31st, 2007 at 9:30 am
“And he didn’t take the opportunity to explain that when he “lifted a hand at somebody and whacked them” it wasn’t the result of colonialist neo-liberal oppression.”
Craig – you will note that incidences of child abuse in 1988 were the same for both Maori and Pakeha – now the former, is four times that of the latter. What has changed since then do you think Craig? Is it welfare dependancy? No, unemployment is lower now than it was then, and the unemployment benefit was much more generous then (36% of the average wage) than it is now (28% of the average wage). So what the hell is it Craig? Is the ‘feminazi’s’fault do you think?
October 31st, 2007 at 9:36 am
“So what the hell is it Craig?”
Must be that the effects of colonialism really started kicking in in 1988.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:39 am
Roger:
Oh, fuck off – I don’t throw around phrases like “feminazi” and don’t take seriously people who do for cheap rhetorical effect. Nor do I take apologists for abuse – and that includes people who use race or class (in the case of abusive Maori) or the equally slimy and offensive spin deployed on behalf of Mallard in recent days.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:40 am
Bevan, et al – I know WINZ start up grants make sense and being business-orientated you might first assume its a National idea but National didn’t have them… they are a Labour policy..
why? Because at the heart of social democrat theory is that ensuring people have fair, adequately rewarded, and decent work is the prime goal of government..
Even though they make sense they are precisely the thing National would cut because they have to get the Government’s bottom-line down to afford tax cuts – its not about what works and produces the best results for society – its slash and burn.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:40 am
i will venture an opinion roger nome – it is the reduction in family structure brought about by the transfer of responsibility from families to the govt by way of the dpb. takes a long time (generation or so) for such things to play out. (actually, dont know if that answers the maori/pakeha diif that you claim. more talking about the general increase).
October 31st, 2007 at 9:42 am
“What was the best National could manage in the 1990s? Something like 6% wasn’t it?”
DFP – Do you have access to stats on what the numbers of sickness beneficaries were during the 90’s vs the 00’s?
Labour seem to be talking up the ‘low unemployment rate’, but never want to talk about how many people have been reclassed from ‘unemployed’ to sickness beneficary…
[DPF: Yes I do. In fact I want to chart sickness and invaldis benefit numbers as a population % when I have the time. But to be fair to the Govt the fall in the UEB numbers has significantly exceeded the growth in those two. Overall benefit numbers are going down which is a good thing]
October 31st, 2007 at 9:46 am
And here’s another radical notion for RogerNome:
You don’t settle problems – or deal with your frustrations – by “putting the bash” on people. It doesn’t matter what colour your skin is, whether you’re a man or a woman, young or old, where you live, how much money you have in your bank account, or who you vote for. It doesn’t matter if you’re a Minister of the Crown or some ghetto trash nobody.
It doesn’t become more or less acceptable depending on who is currently leading the Government.
It’s just wrong.
And there’s no statistical tipping point where even one violent crime perpetrated against any human being becomes unimportant.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:46 am
So no answer craig? Only abuse? Shame, I thought you were better than that.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:47 am
g_, ask Lindsay Mitchell. she often has this kind of info at hand.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:49 am
Another vanity post eh DPF? You’re just so shameless, bringing up the fact that you have friends.
[DPF: Heh.]
October 31st, 2007 at 9:52 am
Sam Dixon – you are an idealogical fuck up. The cliches are completely worn out and repeating them over and over will not make them fact. The education system in this country is failing you mate because at this stage 51% of the voting population can see through you and the rest of the comrades. That percentage will increase at election time when proper debate is held.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:54 am
“And here’s another radical notion for RogerNome”
What? Hot air and bloated chest rhetoric Craig? Is that it? What has changed since 1988 that has lead to this increase in violence perpetrated by Maori.
Oh, and for the record, the last time I hit someone was when I was 13 – and they smacked me in gob first, so please understand that we aren’t debating whether violence appropriate behavior here. That it isn’t is a given.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:56 am
OT: also g_, the number of unemployed (publicly quoted) if different from the number of individuals receiving UEB payments (kept very secret – try to get that from Dept of Stats) which is different from the number of individuals who are without work (which is difficult to determine).
I’m fairly certain – but lack cast iron proof – that there are significantly more UEB recipients than the official number of ‘unemployed’
October 31st, 2007 at 9:56 am
Roger Nome:
No, it seems your standard of debate is to throw in some random cheap creak about ‘blaming the feminazis’. Trying to Godwin a threat with a particularly lame straw man doesn’t really put you on the moral high ground to lecture anyone about not running an honest argument.
October 31st, 2007 at 9:58 am
you eggs spend too much time abusing each other
October 31st, 2007 at 9:59 am
Hey DPF, what ever happened to your promised inoculation of unemployment in the 90s?
[DPF: Well if the laptop had not died .... Never fear - it will appear one day when I have the time.]
October 31st, 2007 at 10:01 am
vto:
I’ll take ownership for what I say, but anyone who is going to misrepresent me – and do so using ludicrous and offensive terms like ‘blame the feminazis’ – they’re going to be told to sod off. Deal with it.
October 31st, 2007 at 10:02 am
Pitty WINZ killed the Small Business Startup fund. I got my small business off that ground with that. Was a great program.
October 31st, 2007 at 10:02 am
so idiots can say things like this: “Fantastic story of self-reliance and initiative.”
Dont you like it when disadvantaged people turn their lives around? God forbid they rise up to your level eh Baron? And they say that National is the party of privilege.
October 31st, 2007 at 10:03 am
Craig – the ‘feminazis’ jibe seemed to be the only right-wing reactionary explanation for the increase in Maori child abuse rates that I hadn’t covered. Can you think of any others?
October 31st, 2007 at 10:04 am
Sounds like something Tau said to Trev after he got the bash.
Except Trev isn’t better than that.
October 31st, 2007 at 10:06 am
Sam
The topic was a hard working tuck driver suggesting equal treatment for Mallard compared to the average bloke.
So instead you deploy weapons of mass distraction…
Its all Nationals fault.. National would have not helped this guy, National will cut out only good things .. blaa blaa blaa
What a broken bloody record, every bloody time this is the crap you peddle out.
As for the topic…. priceless. Labour getting bollocks from the ordinary bloke.
October 31st, 2007 at 10:06 am
deal with it yourself craig
October 31st, 2007 at 10:07 am
oh god, now i sound just like you fullas. i’m outa here
October 31st, 2007 at 10:10 am
Roger Nome has a fascinating rhetorical turn. It looks as if he has arguments, his posts have the form of arguments – but every time you go after them they turn a corner and disappear. It’s like a political syntax with no actual content.
October 31st, 2007 at 10:12 am
g_:
“DFP – Do you have access to stats on what the numbers of sickness beneficaries were during the 90’s vs the 00’s?”
You can’t attribute the precipitous fall in unemployment since the 1990s to an increase in sickness beneficiary numbers. In fact, as the statistics show, New Zealand’s employment rate is now up to nearly 76%, whereas in thee 1990s, the best the National part was able to do was 71%.
http://www.socialreport.msd.govt.nz/paid-work/employment.html
October 31st, 2007 at 10:12 am
‘And they say that National is the party of privilege.’
National won the majority of FFP elections.
Now they seem to be about to dominate MMP.
According to the polls National are set to win an advantage in the house to gain independent control and form their own govt.
That would take a complete Labour swing and I’m suspecting a down turn for the Greens. The anti smacking bill would be responsible for that.
I don’t think a full National govt is realistic,, BUTT,, with Maori Party support they might say “No thanks Winston, not this time.”
October 31st, 2007 at 10:13 am
Hmm,
I just worked myself out,,
No wonder Winston is kicking so hard against the bro’s!
October 31st, 2007 at 10:13 am
krazykiwi – the number of people on UB benefits is released every quarter by MSD. You’re competing with burt as most stupid poster.
g_ – the studies show there is low migration from UB to SB
October 31st, 2007 at 10:27 am
Tane said “Hey DPF, what ever happened to your promised inoculation of unemployment in the 90s?”
Nice try for a thread-jack Tane! If you want to talk about that so much, why not start a thread on The Standard, or maybe even start your own blog.
October 31st, 2007 at 10:28 am
Mallard will surely join The Greens after todays reshuffle as he is clearly into planting natives
October 31st, 2007 at 10:29 am
sam, my contention is that there’s a delta between the number of people on UB benefits as released every quarter by MSD ..and.. the number of individuals who are in receipt of the UEB. if that frames me as a ’stuipd poster’ then more power to ya mate.
October 31st, 2007 at 10:48 am
Mallard must be arrested by police for assault – end of story .
October 31st, 2007 at 10:48 am
Can I suggest a theory, PhilipRoger?
The reduction in unemployment is a result of the very strong economy. This is strong for a variety of reasons, a big one being strong commodity prices as a result of China and India embracing modern capitalism. Another one, of course, is the sound structure Labour inherited in 1999 as a result of the excellent policies of the 1984-1990 Labour governnment and the 1990-1999 National one.
October 31st, 2007 at 10:50 am
It was a great comment by the driver. Right on the nail.
And weren’t there business start-up grants under National too?
October 31st, 2007 at 10:55 am
ot: sam, btw, i’ve worked at TEC where there is some VERY odd number giggling that goes on. about 18 months ago MSD stopped calling someone ‘unemployed’ if they were actively seeking work.. and instead classified them as a ‘job seeker’ despite the fact they were regularly receiving the unemployment benefit. And further, MSD stretched the period over which someone could be classified as a ‘job seeker’ which caused problems with their entitlement to TEC-funded courses and further distorted the quarterly reported unemployment numbers. Bottom line: we are fed lies, damn lies and statistics.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:01 am
KK – You really are as stupid as Sam alleges. Takes a look at the employment rate figures. It objectively destroys your flimsy arguments.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:05 am
I also know the “truck Driver” if I remember rightly he recently won a small business award in the Hutt Valley.
He’s certainly a great Bloke!
October 31st, 2007 at 11:07 am
Isn’t telling everyone on Kiwiblog about the Wainui truck driver’s personal life in respect to his ‘legal problems’ and having been ‘a long term beneficiary’ breaching his privacy? Nevermind that is also 2nd hand knowledge.
aladin
[DPF: The driver referred to his arrests. But regardless if you appear on TV, then people who know you will talk about you. I was careful not to name him, even though I was told his name and his business's name]
October 31st, 2007 at 11:08 am
“result of the excellent policies of the 1984-1990 Labour governnment and the 1990-1999 National one”
You mean when governments were elected by lying about their intentions to their constituents, for e.g. “We will abolish the surtax on superannuation” “We will stop Labour’s reforms, and return to a decent society!”
The policies from 1984 – 1999 were the closest that this country has ever come to dictatorship. Your vote didn’t count, or the party you voted for wouldn’t do what they pledged if they achieved power.
How otherwise is there any capital to be made from the current government reminding people of how bad it was, and why there such a major attempt from the National Party and its aligned hang-ons to change its image as a 1990s throwback.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:10 am
“This is strong for a variety of reasons, a big one being strong commodity prices as a result of China and India embracing modern capitalism.”
No doubt this is part of this is part of the reason Billy. However – there areother free market economies such as the USA where unemployment is still up at 5-6%. The economics literature shows that investing in active labour market policies increases employment rate, and lowers unemployment. Studies often point to the Scandinavian economies for evidence of this. Now the National party, along with their right-wing counterparts in the USA failed to invest in such policies (i.e. task force green etc) – as such their policies will always result in a lower employment rate than enjoyed by us presently and the Scandinavian countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_employment_rate
October 31st, 2007 at 11:11 am
Sam – If National wants to reduce the bottom line to afford tax cuts then, as other posters have pointed out, this type of handout programme is exactly what they’d keep. The alternative is ongoing handouts and perhaps further incarceration costs. Taking you on your word that it was a Labour programme (since I don’t have time to check) then that’s some good work there. You don’t need to take the point further than that.
You also fail to mention that tax cuts would help his small business grow faster. How about some Rodney Hide style red tape slashing too.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:14 am
I think business start-up initiatives are more of a right-wing tendency than a left-wing one. I mean what is in it for a left wing government to actively create more middle class people? By implication, it would suggest it is better for a left wing government to create more working calss people. Sadly this government has merely created more poverty-class people. Ergo, the present Labour Government is further to the right than those who would initiate incentives to increase small businesses in NZ. It prefers for people to be drip-fed poverty-trap state cash, because it keeps ‘em timid and more likely to vote Labour. It’s scary out there in the cut and thrust of the real world, but so safe and warm knowing where your next benficiary cheque is coming from…especially if it gets threatened, then you can just jump onto the sickness instead.
start the car…
October 31st, 2007 at 11:18 am
Back on track threadjackers.
If I decked one of my fellow employees then as the guy on TV said I would be cuffed and charged and would most definetly lose my job regardless of any excuses I trotted out.
And how do I know this? Because of the cases where exactly that has happened.
So why shouldnt Mallard be subject to the same rules as the rest of us. Ill tell you Socialist supporters arseholes all.
Because your political friends regard themselves as so superior to you and I and every other citizen that the rules dont apply to them.
You are all a bunch of pillocks with your beloved Socialists laughing at you behind your backs They cant believe how dumb arse you all are. I can.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:19 am
“It prefers for people to be drip-fed poverty-trap state cash, because it keeps ‘em timid and more likely to vote Labour.”
Do you think that’s why we have one of the highest employment rates in the world LeeC? Idiot.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:21 am
roger: doesn’t get people into jobs – providing a quality job seeker service, and relevant skill training does.
Why were you quoting the truck driver example in that post?
If I’m reading the thread correctly he used his own skills and determination to get somewhere, along with a financial injection from WINZ, to get his own business running.
That doesn’t sound like the government providing him with a job. That sounds like him carving out a job for himself!
October 31st, 2007 at 11:24 am
Spin it any way you like pascal. Labour has been very succesfull at lowering unemployment and increasing the employment rate – that cannot be denied.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:25 am
“Do you think that’s why we have one of the highest employment rates in the world LeeC?
Idiot.”
No I think it’s because the minimum wages are shit and that the remainder of those not unemployed or in interest-free higher education or on dpb are on the sickness.
genius.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:26 am
And if you want to correllate that to any other issue look at where we stand in the OECD
October 31st, 2007 at 11:30 am
If I decked one of my fellow employees then as the guy on TV said I would be cuffed and charged and would most definetly lose my job regardless of any excuses I trotted out.
And how do I know this? Because of the cases where exactly that has happened.
Actually I was having a yarn with an employment lawyer the other day and she told me of a relevant case where a factory worker was grabbed by his workmate in a rough manner (similar to having his tie grabbed) and responded by smacking him in the head. The upshot was that it was found the worker who did the smacking in the head had acted under provocation, and while he could be disciplined for his actions there were no reasonable grounds to fire him.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:31 am
Roger the world has gone through a huge growth spurt in the last decade.
Mickey mouse could have lowered unemployment in this country.
What is of real interest to the wealth creation for this country is what type of employment has beed created. 30,000 extra bureaucrats should really be labelled under welfare.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:32 am
Roger, You tout employment figures as if the government is directly responsible for the market conditions that have led to this growth. This Government is merely the beneficiary of benign economic conditions.
Taking credit for this is like taking credit for the sun coming up in the morning.
By the way, If the unemployment rate is one of the lowest, then why is the staffing level at winz not being reduced accordingly?
October 31st, 2007 at 11:32 am
“No I think it’s because the minimum wages are shit and that the remainder of those not unemployed or in interest-free higher education or on dpb are on the sickness.”
But you still ignore the fact that we have one of the highest employment rates in the world. We also have one of the highest labour force participation rates in the world. Doesn’t sound to me like a country that’s under an iron-hand socialist government had a socialist conspiricy bent on turning everyone into a beneficiary. To be sure The employment rate was far lower under National, and welfare dependancy was far higher. Maybe National had a communist conspiricy going? Your thoughts LeeC?
October 31st, 2007 at 11:33 am
Under Labour the white guys beat up the brown guys and get their hands slapped with a wet bus ticket. The brown guys get arrested and charged and labelled terrorists. I think the soft rascism of the Labour Party is becoming more obvious to all. They never put a “nigger boy” in a serious job. Just get bums on seats (mainly on the list after being rejected) and give them meanlingless jobs. When has Labour given a maori MP a serious job. When has Labour had a maori MP stand in a general seat.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:34 am
“Actually I was having a yarn with an employment lawyer the other day and she told me of a relevant case where a factory worker was grabbed by his workmate in a rough manner (similar to having his tie grabbed) and responded by smacking him in the head. The upshot was that it was found the worker who did the smacking in the head had acted under provocation, and while he could be disciplined for his actions there were no reasonable grounds to fire him.”
Shit Tane, when you put it like that I really can’t see what all the fuss was about.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:36 am
Though I assume the guy of whom you speak had just spent 14 mill on an anti-vilence campaign, or else it would just be eye-wash. Wouldn’t it?
October 31st, 2007 at 11:37 am
“By the way, If the unemployment rate is one of the lowest, then why is the staffing level at winz not being reduced accordingly?”
Because, like the scandanavian countries, we have an active labour market strategy that places a strong emphasis on getting people into work. Labour understands that there’s more to getting people into work than just letting the market do its thing. That’s why, unlike the free market economies like the USA, Japan and Korea, we have one of the highest employment rates in the world.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:41 am
I believe it. I just hope our Wainui trucker keeps his truck rego up, his mileage paid up, acc payments and insurance in the black, provisional and terminal tax paid on time and doesn`t fall behind with his rates. Pray that he hasn`t formed a company with his wife/partner and mortgaged the house to pay for truck. With luck he will not get shot by deranged P-freak,nor flicked with acid by pissed off ex-schoolgirl whilst watching after school catfight at the Top Pool. Poor old Wainui, not the same town I grew up, in one good cop that was more than willing to kick wayward arses, no one called themselves niggers and Fraser Coleman did his job without bashing anyone. How times have changed.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:41 am
“Labour understands that there’s more to getting people into work than just letting the market do its thing.”
Classic, try buying a house on the average wage.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:43 am
slightlyrighty said “Taking credit for this is like taking credit for the sun coming up in the morning.”
Geez sr – you mean that’s not something the Labour Government is responsible for? Heck, from reading what Tane, Sam, roger etc say, I truly thought it was!!
October 31st, 2007 at 11:44 am
kehua, why not put on a pair of gnome’s pink-shaded spectacles, that’ll cure your uppity lack of gratitude.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:48 am
Inventory – “Heck, from reading what Tane, Sam, roger etc say, I truly thought it was!!”
To me they are a bit like those interludes at the circus, where if the jugglers and trapeze artists were getting dull, the clowns would come on in a funny car, and they’d stop in the middle and the doors would come off..hysterical!
October 31st, 2007 at 11:49 am
Tane – a bloke at a place where I used to work got sacked a few months ago for assaulting a fellow employee (female) – nothing more than a shove, but she called the Police, and he was gone by teatime. The Workplace had a Code of Conduct where assault was clearly defined as serious misconduct, and a sackable offence – so sack him they did. He was also an EPMU delegate who was told by EPMU that unfortunately, he didn’t have a leg to stand on.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:50 am
So according to some, when Labour took office, we had high unemployment and an understaffed WINZ. WINZ have now massively reduced unemployment (as if growth in industry had mothing to do with it) yet staffing levels at WINZ remain at a high level, even though the number of clients has gone down according to government statistics.
Some might argue that we need to keep this level of staffing because they might be needed in future, rather like an air combat wing for example.
I would argue that these personnel might be better utilised putting their skills back into the marketplace where many organisations are screaming for competent, capable staff.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:50 am
Did politicians lie as much in the past?
October 31st, 2007 at 11:52 am
Im waiting for a Socialist pollie to commit murder No doubt the Police will decide its not in the public interest to investigate or prosecute.
How many lame duck (pun intended) excuses will you Socialist supporters continue to take.
Your a pathetic shower worshiping at the alter of unethical and immoral cretins
October 31st, 2007 at 11:53 am
Do you think that’s why we have one of the highest employment rates in the world LeeC? Idiot.
So are you trying to tell me that only the unemployed get welfare are you?
October 31st, 2007 at 11:55 am
i dont like to pillory people but mr nome you are quite deluded and i would bet money that you work in some taxpayer funded organisation of some sort and have never been in business
October 31st, 2007 at 11:58 am
Lee C
My sqinty old eyes don`t need Pink-shaded specs they grew up shovelling the shit in Wainuis gutters then graduated to much better things “in spite of and not because of” any nanny state leftist feminazi labour bullshit governance.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:58 am
# vto Says:
October 31st, 2007 at 11:55 am
i dont like to pillory people but mr nome you are quite deluded and i would bet money that you work in some taxpayer funded organisation of some sort and have never been in business
BINGO!
October 31st, 2007 at 11:59 am
vto according to his blog – nome is a student in his 50s.
an anagram of rogernome is ‘egre moron’ I don’t know what it means but I think I have just summarised the most interesting thngs about him.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:00 pm
Well kehua, it is only a matter of time before they get handed out free in lieu of better wages, better living standards, honest government and free-speech.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:02 pm
IV2,
Yeah, generally violence in the workplace is a sure route to getting yourself sacked, and unless the victim and the employer agree to accept an apology you’re pretty much stuffed. And that’s probably how it should be.
The difference in the case I mentioned earlier was the provocation involved and the fact the guy who got smacked in the face had started the incident. That’s highly relevant to Mallard and Henare, seeing as Mallard was responding (well out of proportion in my opinion) to Henare’s initial assault on him.
Of course, I’m no expert on employment law so I could be wrong, but the employment lawyer I was talking to seemed pretty sure Mallard would have a pretty good case if he’d done the same thing in a normal workplace.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:03 pm
Actually I was having a yarn with an employment lawyer the other day and she told me of a relevant case where a factory worker was grabbed by his workmate in a rough manner (similar to having his tie grabbed) and responded by smacking him in the head.
Its interesting you brought this angle up, Im assuming by the tie grab you are alluding to the unknown individual who says they saw Tau ‘assault’ Mallard first? Well if Mallard was provoked, why did he apologise and admit it was all his fault? If Mallard was assaulted first, he could quite rightly claim self defense – hell I would even be here backing him.
I can smell bullshit with this whole tie grabbing nonsense.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:03 pm
So are you trying to tell me that only the unemployed get welfare are you?
Of course not Bev, a lot of businesses get welfare too.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Well if Mallard was provoked, why did he apologise and admit it was all his fault?
I think you can put this down to Labour’s awful spin. Instead of going on the offensive their instinct was to shut it down and go into damage control. As a result Henare’s off the hook and Rodney Hide is free to go about threatening police charges against Mallard.
And I’m not defending Mallard. I think the guy’s acted like a buffoon for far too long and it’s time he pulled his head in. But the same could be said about Tau Henare. I’m just calling for a bit of consistency here.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:07 pm
Tane, if one can be sacked for provocation, what do you make of Mallards earlier condiuct in the house towards one Don Brash.
What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the Mallard wouldn’t you say?
October 31st, 2007 at 12:09 pm
Tane! Back to the start of the thread! Great!
According to this Wainui truckie, consistency would involve Mallard being arrested.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:10 pm
SR, I’m not sure anyone was sacked for provocation. Have another read.
As for Mallard and Don, blogblog has a good analysis over here:
http://kiwiblogblog.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dpf-defends-decent-don/
October 31st, 2007 at 12:10 pm
Tane & roger nome seem to be the only ones to have mentioned Henare’s “tie-grabbing” – perhaps if they talk about it enough, they hope it’ll become a self-perpetuating prophesy!
October 31st, 2007 at 12:11 pm
Tane: Of course not Bev, a lot of businesses get welfare too.
So we can expect well-connected Tane to explain this to his good mate, Jim Anderton.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:11 pm
According to this Wainui truckie, consistency would involve Mallard being arrested.
As I said, I’m not sure employment law would look at it the same way. But not being an employment lawyer, and not knowing the facts of the case for the Wainui truckie, it’s hard to know. I’d just advise caution before running around saying Trevor should be sacked for responding to Tau Henare’s assault on him.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Tane & roger nome seem to be the only ones to have mentioned Henare’s “tie-grabbing” – perhaps if they talk about it enough, they hope it’ll become a self-perpetuating prophesy!
It was on the front page of the Dom Post the other day, and was discussed at length on Morning Report.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:12 pm
With fear of being charged with thread keeping not jacking can we all stick to the facts about Trevor.
1/ A Senior Cabinet Minister assaulted physically another member of Parliament.
2/ This is a minister in a Government that has taken a clear strong stand against violence ,bullying, assault and physical striking of anyone.
3/ In any other organisation physical assault results in serious misconduct charges with or without police involvement and normally results in dismissal.
4/ There can be no quarter given in this case irrespective of who the person is because the holding of a ministerial warrant carries with it the responsibility to uphold to the country a standard that is far above that of an ordinary citizen.
5/ Helen Clark must be seen to take a strong public stand against this behaviour otherwise it is saying to New Zealand this behaviour is acceptable in a society that is already far too violent.
6/ Mallard has to be publically sacked otherwise Helen will have no credibility left at all on issues to do with violence.
How about some simple debate about these points Roger, Tane and Sam. Which ones do you agree with ?
October 31st, 2007 at 12:12 pm
So are you trying to tell me that only the unemployed get welfare are you?
Of course not Bev, a lot of businesses get welfare too.
You mean labour’s trying to make them dependant on the state as well? Damn Labour really are like P dealers arnt they?
October 31st, 2007 at 12:14 pm
I think you can put this down to Labour’s awful spin. Instead of going on the offensive their instinct was to shut it down and go into damage control. As a result Henare’s off the hook and Rodney Hide is free to go about threatening police charges against Mallard.
Does anyone else smell that?
October 31st, 2007 at 12:15 pm
Bevan, if you want to start talking about corporate welfare you’d be advised to take a good look at National’s record first.
Castafiore, you obviously haven’t read a word I’ve written.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Bevan, if you want to start talking about corporate welfare you’d be advised to take a good look at National’s record first.
Im assuming there will be a post over at The Mediocre soon regarding this astonishing discovery of yours Tane so we can all view this conspiracy you’ve uncovered – or is your only desire to threadjack?
October 31st, 2007 at 12:23 pm
The Mediocre? Honestly bro, you’ve got to do better than that. Even The Stupid, The Substandard and The Average are funnier.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:24 pm
It was on the front page of the Dom Post the other day, and was discussed at length on Morning Report.
And the name of this witness was?
If this was true, Labour would be shouting it from the rooftops.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:28 pm
I really don’t want to threadjack, but…
The Gnome said:
Define (un)unemployment.
I am sure Lindsay Mitchell and Gordan Copeland (along with the actual Minister for Social Development and Employment (Acting, that is) would love to know, as no-one can get a straight answer.
In all your benevolence and/or omnipotence you can offer us – the dim-witted and ill-educated – the answer.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Tane I have been bored to tears reading your verbal ponifications.
The very reason I have asked some factual simple questions.
How about some simple factual replies??
October 31st, 2007 at 12:28 pm
The Mediocre? Honestly bro, you’ve got to do better than that. Even The Stupid, The Substandard and The Average are funnier.
Must have hit the mark though eh Tane? Else you would have refrained from commenting on the jibe.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:31 pm
And I know Trevor has not been sacked but has gone back to No. 10 !
October 31st, 2007 at 12:34 pm
Somewhere, in an alternative universe, Tau Henare smacked Mallard first, and an alternative kiwiblog is fizzing with Tane’s condemnation of the terrible deed.
In the meantime, we are subjected to a kinder, more reasonable Tane, who is calling for some kind of consistency and perspective over the whole matter.
I think we ahould all enjoy this balanced view, it does prove that Tane is capable of seeing both sides of an argument.
There is hope for him yet….
October 31st, 2007 at 12:39 pm
Must have hit the mark though eh Tane? Else you would have refrained from commenting on the jibe.
Na Bev, our favourite’s The Double Standard. Of course, it’s too clever for you lot to have come up with, so consider it my gift to you.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:42 pm
Bev:
“So are you trying to tell me that only the unemployed get welfare are you?”
You need to go look up the definition of “employment rate”.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Lee C said “Somewhere, in an alternative universe, Tau Henare smacked Mallard first, and an alternative kiwiblog is fizzing with Tane’s condemnation of the terrible deed.
In the meantime, we are subjected to a kinder, more reasonable Tane, who is calling for some kind of consistency and perspective over the whole matter.”
Reminds me of that classic album title from Ian Dury and the Blockheads from way back – “You’re Never Alone When You’re a Schizophrenic”
October 31st, 2007 at 12:46 pm
The inhumanity! The Beast has certainly taken to mallard with the long wood.
No reduction in pay and perks, loses sport (not much left to junket on in the run down to election anyway) and loses RWC ministry! Sigh of relief I would imagine seeing as how he has fucked the whole thing up over Eden Park.
There you go, punch people in the face in the workplace with impunity everybody.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:50 pm
LeeC, VTO:
Neither of you can come up with a rational argument to challenge mine, so now the hysterical insult throwing starts. Why do I have a feeling I’ve been here before?
October 31st, 2007 at 1:21 pm
You need to go look up the definition of “employment rate”.
You need to open your eyes and read, most posts to you have been about Welfare, not the employment rate.
October 31st, 2007 at 1:21 pm
I meant “My posts to you”
October 31st, 2007 at 1:24 pm
gnome so sensitive, such an attention seeker:
“Neither of you can come up with a rational argument to challenge mine, so now the hysterical insult throwing starts. Why do I have a feeling I’ve been here before?”
This is gnome’s reality. Then he expects to be taken seriously.
October 31st, 2007 at 1:39 pm
bev -you’re a lost cause. employment rate is over 76% now, whereas the best National could do in the 1990s was 71%. This proves objectively that a higher percentage of our working age population is working than was the case under National – this measurement includes EVERYONE 15 years and older – tertiary students, the unemployed, sickness beneficiaries, EVERYONE you bloody idiot!
October 31st, 2007 at 1:57 pm
gnome don’t forget:
“New Zealand resident departures (208,500) were up 3 percent from September 2006 (201,900).”
I wonder if upsards of 600 a week were easing the unemployment rate by choosing to emigrate when National were last in power?
If this trend keeps up we will soon have 100% unemployment becaue soon you will be the only one left, and you don’t work, do you?
October 31st, 2007 at 2:39 pm
I wonder if upsards of 600 a week were easing the unemployment rate by choosing to emigrate when National were last in power?
Lee, we have net immigration.
October 31st, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Roger.
You keep trumpeting employment statistics as if the government is the only organisation that provides employment. Perhaps you are confusing reality with your own ideal socialist paradise.
October 31st, 2007 at 2:44 pm
LeeC – Tane bet me to pointing that out for you. But thanks again for proving your moronhood.
October 31st, 2007 at 2:47 pm
“You keep trumpeting employment statistics as if the government is the only organisation that provides employment.” SR – Labour market policy undoubtedly has an impact on employment rate and unemployment rate – why don’t you read some economics papers on the subject, there’s dozens of them on the net at your fingertips.
October 31st, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Yes boys and the net immigration has been wonderful at providing trained teachers and doctors with jobs driving cabs.
On shit wages.
Supplemented by WINZ.
While NZ has become very skilled at exporting its skilled labour where the wages, taxation system social security and family assistance packages are superior.
And you too are actually competing to be the first to tell us how wonderful it all is.
Is there such a word as ‘moronhood’?
I’d prefer ‘working man’.
October 31st, 2007 at 3:18 pm
LeeC – Australia has skills shortages as well. Are you familiar with the term “tight labour market”?
October 31st, 2007 at 3:19 pm
I prefer “moronosity”.
October 31st, 2007 at 3:19 pm
“Moronness”.
October 31st, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Roger.
Employment can well be affected by government policy, an overly restrictive government can be extremely detrimental. National allowed the market to naturally find equilibrium by bringing in the ECA. Labour has softened this act somewhat but never fully recinded it. While it has been renamed, the central theme, which was a move away from collective bargaining and allowing individual contracts, was retained.
But sustainable employment growth must be driven from a private sector, assisted by favourable economic conditions. As we are a tiny economy we generally react to overseas trends, not set them.
October 31st, 2007 at 3:25 pm
I bet Australia’s skills shortage is partly remedied by the influx from here. Whereas NZ’s is exacerbated by the comparatively lower wages and higher house and tax.
October 31st, 2007 at 3:25 pm
moronity?
October 31st, 2007 at 3:27 pm
Furthermore Roger, Labour is doing nothing to arrest a skill shortage. We are losing our best and brightest overseas, where countries are actively competing for our workers by giving them a better deal.
As a result companies in NZ are feeling the pinch. Manufacturing is moving offshore. As companies are forced to close, citing skill shortages, where will WINZ place these new unemployed?
October 31st, 2007 at 3:28 pm
“Moron-like qualities”?
October 31st, 2007 at 3:34 pm
“NZ’s is exacerbated by the comparatively lower wages and higher house and tax.”
higher houses? Now people are migrating because people are scared of falling out of their homes? Bloody hell, what will you tories think of next?
But seriously – wages, yes. Economic growth in NZ and Aus has been roughly the same over the last 20 years, yet wages in Aus have grown at twice the rate they have here (so it’s not about slow economic growth). Simply put, Australian workers are getting a bigger chunk of the economy than NZ workers are (see labour income share statistics). They have had a system of centralised collective bargaining for most of the last 20 years which has accorded their workers greater bargaining power – thus their high rate of wage growth. So yes the National party scrapped the awards system in 1991, and after a whole decade of that it is very hard to reverse because it has altered the structure of the labour market so profoundly – I still think that the labour party should have reintroduced the awards system though.
October 31st, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Yes Bill I agree, any one of those creative phrases would do nicely to describe LeeC.
October 31st, 2007 at 3:38 pm
“As a result companies in NZ are feeling the pinch. Manufacturing is moving offshore.”
yes, this is happening across the OECD – particularly in the US. oh and if you guys think that a $10-$20 tax cut for jo/joanna average is going to change any of these problems you’re stupider than I already thought.
October 31st, 2007 at 3:44 pm
The man who invented the word “moronhood” is calling me stupid?
October 31st, 2007 at 3:45 pm
gnome and his big brain….
‘Are you familiar with the term “tight labour market”?’
It’s brilliant! It’s like – not actually saying he’s convinced that he’s very clever, but inferring it, by like – suggesting the other person isn’t as well-read.
What is useful about this, from gnome’s point of view is that he can once again puff up his own ego, and thereofore convince himself that he is right, regardless of whether the other person has either heard of the ‘tight labour market’ phrase, or not, while at the same time suggest that he is party to knowledge which is denied lesser mortals.
Without actually having to address the fact that Australia is doing a damn sight more to address its problems than Helen and the ‘let them eat cake’ brigage have done after nearly a decade.
Are you familiar with the concept of getting an actual job?
I mean what are you training to be? Tedious bore.
You’ve already got a first class honours degree in that…
Sorry, I meant pedantic, tedious over the hill dilletante.
I like ‘moronesque’.
Get a job.
October 31st, 2007 at 3:46 pm
I thought it was funny – but each their own I guess billy.
October 31st, 2007 at 3:48 pm
oh great argument LeeC – “get a job”, well when all else has failed there’s always that immortal line – who needs rational debate when you’ve got that “winner”. Pathetic LeeC – even for you.
October 31st, 2007 at 3:52 pm
I DO like “moronhood”. It’s got a black thing going on.
October 31st, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Thanks Billy – although I wouldn’t accuse LeeC of being evil or dark – he’s too stupid and transparent
October 31st, 2007 at 4:02 pm
So, what is your job again.
Am I bothered?
October 31st, 2007 at 4:04 pm
oh boy…
October 31st, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Come on, chaps (especially LeeC). No need to go below the belt, eh, what?
Stick to the issue.
October 31st, 2007 at 4:23 pm
Having said that, if, like the truck driver from Wainui, egremoron is turning his life around, then who am I to scoff?
I shouldn’t be having a go at you I should be praising you. After all you are showing the gumption to pull yourself up from wherever you where, using study and qualifications as a measn to re-insert yourself back into the labour market, and make a better life for yourself.
Well done you!
NOw, what about all those wonderful things that the present government has done to stall the alarming slip in the OECD ratings you were going to address?
Also what have they done in the last decade of being in power to re-institute the awards system?
They’ve raised the minimum wage 6 times but still it isn’t matching the real growth in living expenses – so to counteract that brought in WFF so that working people must go to the government to top up their paltry incomes.
Meanshile the standard of life is down, families working shifts not seeing their kids together, with all its time-bomb social issues waiting to happen.
If you are starting out as a worker here, the chances of marraige, kids and a mortgae are all jeopardised by teh hike in house prices hike in mortgage rates, and crash in real wages.
At the same time the Health system is in crisis, policing is in crisis, poverty is rising (ulessyour name is Helen, in whcicch case it doesn’t exist)
Unemployment is massaged out of existence by a number of devices then trotted out to prop up the accident of history which has been the past years of economic boom as if CUllen invented it out of nothing. But his ability to manage our finances is reflected in how he keeps getting the forecasts wrong year in year out, and using his incompetence to stifle growth by sitting on billions of surplus.
And still the people are leaving.
If you see me as ’stupid and transparent’ fine, eally don’t mind.
At least I’ve got a job…
October 31st, 2007 at 4:25 pm
brownie.
He started it…
October 31st, 2007 at 4:32 pm
roger nome, what i was getting at way back was that your comments generally implied that the economic good times of recent years were somehow attributable to this labour govt.
Nothing is further removed from the truth. Whoever had come into govt would have reaped the good times which have stemmed from the policies of the 80s and 90s and the general good health of the world economy. Anyone with any cred knows this and would admit it.
That is what I meant by you being ‘delusional’.
do you seriously consider that the labour govt can take the credit?
October 31st, 2007 at 4:33 pm
LeeC truely, you are too stupid for words.
October 31st, 2007 at 4:35 pm
VTO – it’s a mixture of policies and economic circumstances. And no, a free market economy doesn’t ensure a high employment rate and low unemployment rate – just look at the USA and Japan.
October 31st, 2007 at 4:52 pm
roger nome – of course its a mixture of policies and circumstances e.g. zimbabwe, singapore, usa, japan, france etc etc.
anyways, i think we differ in considerable ways re economics and the way in which business operates at its best. and its business that employs, not govt.
what gets to me though is the number of people who dictate to business yet have no experience in it (and I very much include this govt’s members in that). without that experience there is simply no way to appreciate what it is like, despite who knows how many degrees one might have (fyi, i have 2). a bit like war and childbirth, by way of extreme example (gotta go thru it to know).
look, if govt want to know how to improve business and hence employment, why not ask those in business. But no, cant do that – they’re the enemy!
October 31st, 2007 at 4:52 pm
what, words like ‘moronhood’?
October 31st, 2007 at 4:54 pm
sheesh, way off topic that was.
back to topic – mallard has been demoted (insert tui ad here).
the mallard problem has not gone away, and in fact I would suspect that the ridiculous so-called deomtion has made it worse.
October 31st, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Yes- last week we lost a couple of doctors and tradesmen to Australia but got Ahmed Zaoui’s family arrive – nett immigration
October 31st, 2007 at 8:07 pm
test, LOL
October 31st, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Has Mallard been arrested by police yet natural party of govt ? Surely it is a test of parliaments integrity ? Ouch – lol .
October 31st, 2007 at 10:55 pm
Mangu temoronui = opposite to latest tereo speaking minita
October 31st, 2007 at 11:00 pm
yes, ‘demoted’ because he was so stressed that felt the need to resort to the biff, but said demotion provides for additional responsibilities because he’s a capable mature minister. H4H … that’s Helen for Hypocracy. (appoligies to D4J)
October 31st, 2007 at 11:24 pm
lol pacman
November 1st, 2007 at 4:31 am
“Isn’t telling everyone on Kiwiblog about the Wainui truck driver’s personal life in respect to his ‘legal problems’ and having been ‘a long term beneficiary’ breaching his privacy? Nevermind that is also 2nd hand knowledge.”
“Knowledge” is a rather generous term to use in this context.
“I also know the “truck Driver” if I remember rightly he recently won a small business award in the Hutt Valley.
He’s certainly a great Bloke!”
The desperation of the right can be a truly tragic sight to behold.
November 1st, 2007 at 12:07 pm
“The desperation of the right can be a truly tragic sight to behold.”
Spare us the Labour good/National bad.
If we’re talking tragic, I suggest you look to the self-serving Electoral Finance Bill, and then ponder Labour’s dearth of talent available for Ministerial advancement .
Spectacular desperation is exemplified by the retention of Mallard – indeed what on earth could be more desperate?