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	<title>Comments on: They&#8217;ve made it worse!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html</link>
	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Right of way is Way of Right</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369544</link>
		<dc:creator>Right of way is Way of Right</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:00:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369544</guid>
		<description>Sam, if you keep quoting Blogs and The Standard to back your arguments up, and DPF quotes the Bill itself, and legal opinion, then your paucity of logic will be exposed rather quickly!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam, if you keep quoting Blogs and The Standard to back your arguments up, and DPF quotes the Bill itself, and legal opinion, then your paucity of logic will be exposed rather quickly!</p>
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		<title>By: pdq</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369408</link>
		<dc:creator>pdq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369408</guid>
		<description>Gooner makes a very good point above, lets just ignore this legislation.  Helen doesn’t have the military capability to make us all comply, so ignore the law and do what you want.  That is how we keep the law in check, is a little concept called voluntary compliance.  

I for one will not comply and am quite happy to become New Zealand&#039;s first political prisoner.  Lets just ignore this steaming pile of shit designed to keep Helen and here corrupt mates in power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gooner makes a very good point above, lets just ignore this legislation.  Helen doesn’t have the military capability to make us all comply, so ignore the law and do what you want.  That is how we keep the law in check, is a little concept called voluntary compliance.  </p>
<p>I for one will not comply and am quite happy to become New Zealand&#8217;s first political prisoner.  Lets just ignore this steaming pile of shit designed to keep Helen and here corrupt mates in power.</p>
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		<title>By: burt</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369404</link>
		<dc:creator>burt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369404</guid>
		<description>Sam Dixon

How is this post earlier looking about now?

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369002&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Now that we’ve all had an hour and a half in Farrar’s echo chamber, you’ll be interested to hear that his claim about the megaphone is a flat out lie and his foreign donors line is a house of cards....&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam Dixon</p>
<p>How is this post earlier looking about now?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369002" rel="nofollow">Now that we’ve all had an hour and a half in Farrar’s echo chamber, you’ll be interested to hear that his claim about the megaphone is a flat out lie and his foreign donors line is a house of cards&#8230;.</a></p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369336</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 08:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369336</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;DPF: She is wrong. Unless any placards advocating against a party are all authorised with names and addresses, and unless every speaker gives his name or address, the march would be illegal&lt;/i&gt;

What if most of the people provided authorisation. One unauthorisation does not an illegal march make, which is what you are implying. If that was the case every protest march would be illegal due the omission of at least one member who forgot his name or address.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>DPF: She is wrong. Unless any placards advocating against a party are all authorised with names and addresses, and unless every speaker gives his name or address, the march would be illegal</i></p>
<p>What if most of the people provided authorisation. One unauthorisation does not an illegal march make, which is what you are implying. If that was the case every protest march would be illegal due the omission of at least one member who forgot his name or address.</p>
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		<title>By: Lindsay Addie</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369267</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay Addie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 06:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369267</guid>
		<description>John Boscawen,

Keep up the good work!

You&#039;re dead right about this stupid $120,000 limit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Boscawen,</p>
<p>Keep up the good work!</p>
<p>You&#8217;re dead right about this stupid $120,000 limit.</p>
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		<title>By: casual watcher</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369140</link>
		<dc:creator>casual watcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 04:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369140</guid>
		<description>Hi John - I attended the march on Saturday and I would like to add my congratulations for what you are doing. I can appreciate the motives for wanting to maintain an apolitical approach but the reality is that it is only the Maori party and the Nats are potential attendees anyway. Would you see the attendance of Key and Sharples as diluting the message  - Key has said it is a matter of principle not politics as do most objectors to this insidious legislation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John &#8211; I attended the march on Saturday and I would like to add my congratulations for what you are doing. I can appreciate the motives for wanting to maintain an apolitical approach but the reality is that it is only the Maori party and the Nats are potential attendees anyway. Would you see the attendance of Key and Sharples as diluting the message  &#8211; Key has said it is a matter of principle not politics as do most objectors to this insidious legislation.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369139</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 04:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369139</guid>
		<description>There should be a big effort put into Newlands to get rid of the dunne lapdog, a waste of space he is now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There should be a big effort put into Newlands to get rid of the dunne lapdog, a waste of space he is now.</p>
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		<title>By: John Boscawen</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369120</link>
		<dc:creator>John Boscawen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 04:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369120</guid>
		<description>Ignoring all the other issues, the Human Rights Commission emphatically said at para 10.3 of thier submission that the regulatory period must be no longer than the current three months. 

This has not been changed. This is a very sad day for New Zealand. 

I am organising a protest march from Civic Square  Wellington ( close to the Town Hall) to Parliament for this Wednesday 21 November. 

Marchers are asked to assemble from 12 noon and we wil leave at 12.30pm. 

This will be an apolitical march. 

It is also my expectation that Family First, Sensible Sentencing and myself will have spent in excess of $120,000 protesting this bill before Parliament resumes on 4 December.  We will do this deliberately to show the people of New Zealand a protest like this will be illegal next year, and then one year in three thereafter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ignoring all the other issues, the Human Rights Commission emphatically said at para 10.3 of thier submission that the regulatory period must be no longer than the current three months. </p>
<p>This has not been changed. This is a very sad day for New Zealand. </p>
<p>I am organising a protest march from Civic Square  Wellington ( close to the Town Hall) to Parliament for this Wednesday 21 November. </p>
<p>Marchers are asked to assemble from 12 noon and we wil leave at 12.30pm. </p>
<p>This will be an apolitical march. </p>
<p>It is also my expectation that Family First, Sensible Sentencing and myself will have spent in excess of $120,000 protesting this bill before Parliament resumes on 4 December.  We will do this deliberately to show the people of New Zealand a protest like this will be illegal next year, and then one year in three thereafter.</p>
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		<title>By: hinamanu</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369108</link>
		<dc:creator>hinamanu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 04:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369108</guid>
		<description>&quot;Can any of you lefty trolls tell me why we need a 150 page document to tell us who can say what about whom and when in this country?&quot;

Just to repeat the question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Can any of you lefty trolls tell me why we need a 150 page document to tell us who can say what about whom and when in this country?&#8221;</p>
<p>Just to repeat the question.</p>
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		<title>By: slightlyrighty</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369103</link>
		<dc:creator>slightlyrighty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 04:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369103</guid>
		<description>Can any of you lefty trolls tell me why we need a 150 page document to tell us who can say what about whom and when in this country?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can any of you lefty trolls tell me why we need a 150 page document to tell us who can say what about whom and when in this country?</p>
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		<title>By: dad4justice</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369064</link>
		<dc:creator>dad4justice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 03:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369064</guid>
		<description>&quot;DPF will have to watch his rubbish bins as well.&quot;

Yes Nicky is always on the look out for emails ? Stolen , it don&#039;t matter to Auntie Helen as she will fund the play !!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;DPF will have to watch his rubbish bins as well.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes Nicky is always on the look out for emails ? Stolen , it don&#8217;t matter to Auntie Helen as she will fund the play !!!</p>
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		<title>By: Kimble</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369055</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 03:30:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369055</guid>
		<description>pete, you dont seem to get it at all.

Without the explicit exemption or a mechanism to infer any implicit exemptions, everything that meets the criteria of advertising, which is broad enough to set off alarm bells, will be covered under the act.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pete, you dont seem to get it at all.</p>
<p>Without the explicit exemption or a mechanism to infer any implicit exemptions, everything that meets the criteria of advertising, which is broad enough to set off alarm bells, will be covered under the act.</p>
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		<title>By: Lance</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369053</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 03:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369053</guid>
		<description>pete wrote
&quot;Watch out for a smear campaign from the Beehive David. You will be tagged “National Party puppet” from a very high level soon.&quot;

DPF will have to watch his rubbish bins as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pete wrote<br />
&#8220;Watch out for a smear campaign from the Beehive David. You will be tagged “National Party puppet” from a very high level soon.&#8221;</p>
<p>DPF will have to watch his rubbish bins as well.</p>
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		<title>By: pete</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369049</link>
		<dc:creator>pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 03:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369049</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And Pete if you are going to keep asserting your point of view, you need to actually cite the bill to back your view up. Making it up isn’t allowed.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What exactly are you accusing me of making up?  I&#039;m not sure how I&#039;d cite &quot;basic reading comprehension&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And Pete if you are going to keep asserting your point of view, you need to actually cite the bill to back your view up. Making it up isn’t allowed.</p></blockquote>
<p>What exactly are you accusing me of making up?  I&#8217;m not sure how I&#8217;d cite &#8220;basic reading comprehension&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: BeShakey</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369045</link>
		<dc:creator>BeShakey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 03:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369045</guid>
		<description>&quot;As I own the premises cannot I determine market rates or does that have to go to the local Kommisar? 

I seem to recall the Herald ran your scenario as an example of what would be illegal under the bill, and it was in fact illegal. Not sure if the article was online, or paper only though.

Whatever offends the Labour party.&quot;



My understanding was that this is illegal at present (not sure who passed it, but it may even have been the Nats).  It attempts to avoid parties avoiding the spending cap by having goods or services provided at negligible rates.  Without knowing the details I would suspect that &#039;reasonable&#039; would be determined by the courts if a case was brought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As I own the premises cannot I determine market rates or does that have to go to the local Kommisar? </p>
<p>I seem to recall the Herald ran your scenario as an example of what would be illegal under the bill, and it was in fact illegal. Not sure if the article was online, or paper only though.</p>
<p>Whatever offends the Labour party.&#8221;</p>
<p>My understanding was that this is illegal at present (not sure who passed it, but it may even have been the Nats).  It attempts to avoid parties avoiding the spending cap by having goods or services provided at negligible rates.  Without knowing the details I would suspect that &#8216;reasonable&#8217; would be determined by the courts if a case was brought.</p>
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		<title>By: david</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369043</link>
		<dc:creator>david</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 03:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369043</guid>
		<description>Watch out for a smear campaign from the Beehive David.  You will be tagged &quot;National Party puppet&quot; from a very high level soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Watch out for a smear campaign from the Beehive David.  You will be tagged &#8220;National Party puppet&#8221; from a very high level soon.</p>
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		<title>By: pete</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369039</link>
		<dc:creator>pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 03:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369039</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If it falls within Clause 5 it is an advertisement for the purpose of this Bill - even if it is not something we would normally consider an advert.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I can see how you might read the bill that way, but you&#039;re being too literal.  You have to read all of clause 5 --- (a) through (g) --- and interpret &quot;words or graphics&quot; in context.  Usenet posts and pub conversations are implicitly exempted, because they&#039;re even less like advertisements that the explicit exceptions in (c) through (g).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If it falls within Clause 5 it is an advertisement for the purpose of this Bill &#8211; even if it is not something we would normally consider an advert.</p></blockquote>
<p>I can see how you might read the bill that way, but you&#8217;re being too literal.  You have to read all of clause 5 &#8212; (a) through (g) &#8212; and interpret &#8220;words or graphics&#8221; in context.  Usenet posts and pub conversations are implicitly exempted, because they&#8217;re even less like advertisements that the explicit exceptions in (c) through (g).</p>
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		<title>By: david</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369038</link>
		<dc:creator>david</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 03:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369038</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;DPF,  Annette King specifically referred to you and KTB in the 4 o&#039;clock news on ZB, saying &quot;he is wrong&quot; and going on to say that the protest on Saturday will not be illegal under the EFB.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Interested in comment/rebuttal!&lt;/p&gt;

[DPF: She is wrong.  Unless any placards advocating against a party are all authorised with names and addresses, and unless every speaker gives his name or address, the march would be illegal]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DPF,  Annette King specifically referred to you and KTB in the 4 o&#8217;clock news on ZB, saying &#8220;he is wrong&#8221; and going on to say that the protest on Saturday will not be illegal under the EFB.  </p>
<p>Interested in comment/rebuttal!</p>
<p>[DPF: She is wrong.  Unless any placards advocating against a party are all authorised with names and addresses, and unless every speaker gives his name or address, the march would be illegal]</p>
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		<title>By: David Farrar</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369032</link>
		<dc:creator>David Farrar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 03:01:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369032</guid>
		<description>And Pete if you are going to keep asserting your point of view, you need to actually cite the bill to back your view up.  Making it up isn&#039;t allowed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Pete if you are going to keep asserting your point of view, you need to actually cite the bill to back your view up.  Making it up isn&#8217;t allowed.</p>
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		<title>By: Spam</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369030</link>
		<dc:creator>Spam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 03:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/18062.html#comment-369030</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Come 2011 they will be hoist by their own petard if the Nats copy them and not only DONT repeal the then Act but tighten it up especially as regards Trade Unions.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;d like to think that if the Nats tried to make this bill even worse to suit their own purposes, that people here would complain about that too.

I know I would.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Come 2011 they will be hoist by their own petard if the Nats copy them and not only DONT repeal the then Act but tighten it up especially as regards Trade Unions.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;d like to think that if the Nats tried to make this bill even worse to suit their own purposes, that people here would complain about that too.</p>
<p>I know I would.</p>
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