Australian Election Results

November 25th, 2007 at 1:41 pm by David Farrar

As expected Kevin Rudd won, and with a very decent majority – it should be enough to keep him in for at least two terms.  It will be very interesting to see how Kevin Rudd goes as PM – he has committed to implementing a large amount of Liberal Party policy such as $38 billion of tax cuts.

Howard looks to have lost his seat also, and has endorsed Peter Costello as his successor.   My preference would be for Malcolm Turnbull to take over, but if Turnbull is sensible he will let Costello take the party into the 2010 election and then take over.

The final result looks to be 86 seats for Labour which is a massive gain of 26 seats.  The Coalition has dropped to 62 and two Independents. 29 seats went to Labour while the Libs picked up three from Labor.

The Senate sees 18 seats go to both the Coalition and Labor, and three to the Greens, giving a new balance of Coalition 37, Labor 32, Greens 5, Family First 1 and Independent 1.  Rudd may have some challenges there.The Democrats are finally wiped out and the Greens do well with 9% of the Senate vote.

In hindsight it is a pity that Howard did not retire last year with a legacy of four election wins and 10 years as PM.  But sadly very very few politicians ever go out on top.  I like the US term limits in that they do mean you go in, do a good job, and then move on without trying to keep the top job forever.

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69 Responses to “Australian Election Results”

  1. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    Well hell, I’m tempted to say good riddance to a gun grabbing socialist who pretended to be a Conservative. That would perhaps be too critical. Its impossible not to regret the passing from politics of a man who was one of the few who understood the need to stand firm against murdering Islamic terrorists. Unfortunately, Howard and his boys failed to stand firm enough against today’s other serious threat to freedom and civilization and prosperity, the global socialist movement and its followers in Australia.

    The interesting thing is that there’s little for the left to feel smug about in winning this election. Krudd had to pretend to be John Howard to win. “I am not a socialist,” Krudd insisted. “I am an economic conservative.” On issue after issue, from federal intervention in dysfunctional Aboriginal communities, to national security, to the expansion of coal and uranium mining, Krudd adopted the government’s line. He’s likely to go Howard’s way on foreign policy, too. His promise to ratify the Kyoto Protocol on climate change and pull troops from Iraq are largely symbolic.

    Krudd knows that Kyoto is just for show. Krudd knows if we ever get close to enough signatories for Kyoto to take effect, someone will “un”-sign. The Kyoto Protocol was never meant to actually take effect, and it hasn’t really. The US hasn’t signed but has reduced emissions more the Canada or Europe, who did sign. In fact none of the countries that signed have succeeeded in doing anything to meet the perceived requirements. Billions have been wasted that could have been spent so much more productively.

    The Iraq war is over. The Aussie troops can come home as victors. Shame is Krudd will probably take the credit when Howard deserves it.

    Now the slow decline will begin, for I say Krudd is not what he says he is. I say he is just another socialist liar. If he was the economic conservative he claims, why has he chosen an “ex” communist, the rabid extreme left politically one dimensional Julia Gillard as his deputy? The left’s win in Australia is symbolic of the cultural dominance of socialism today, that sad sick religion that like all of them, promises utopia but only brings an abyss. In reality, the lemming like west is slowly but surely committing suicide. The question is, can the body of western civiliaztion ever be brought back to life after decades of the self proscribed poison of socialism flowing through its veins? One has to answer yes, or else there is nothing.

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  2. ZenTiger (428 comments) says:

    Well, looking on the bright side – before even enacting a single policy, Kevin Rudd and the Australian Labor Party have already done more to stem the tide of people leaving NZ than NZ Labour have managed in 8 years.

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  3. Lindsay Addie (1,468 comments) says:

    Rudd and Labor had this election won 3 months ago. The Liberals campaign was far too negative whilst Rudd stayed on message and also ignored all the negative stuff about unions etc (as obviously did the voters). The deal with Howard stepping down for Costello if re-elected was dumb politics and a very hard sell. Tax cuts didn’t seem to be a big issue either.

    Yes Rudd got away far too much with not answering questions at press conferences etc but that’s the way it goes, though he is a ‘feel good’ politician who hasn’t as yet had to make any hard decisions. Also Rudd probably appealed to the younger voters more than Howard. I think history will give Howard the credit he deserves but this was a campaign too far.

    Howard’s concession speech was simply superb, he took defeat on the chin and went down with his head held high. It was also delivered without any use at all of speech notes. I must note that Rudd acceptance speech was prepared in advance and was also too long.

    It will be interesting to see how this new mob go in government as they have an inexperienced look about them.

    National and Key should learn a lot how Labor and Rudd ran their campaign.

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  4. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Yes Rudd got away far too much with not answering questions at press conferences etc but that’s the way it goes,”

    Objective media people would have pressed Rudd on how he was going to deal with interest rates. Where are they? The media is full of leftist sympathizers, and they’re a large part of the reason for Howard’s demise and Krudd’s ascension to power.

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  5. metcalph (1,428 comments) says:

    See the SST this morning? Claimed that Rudd was the first Labor leader since 1983.

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  6. Bryce Edwards (248 comments) says:

    Redbaiter is entirely correct to say that ‘there’s little for the left to feel smug about in winning this election’, and that Rudd is another “me too” politician. I somehow doubt, however, that his fears of a hidden socialist agenda coming out of the Labor Government will eventuate.

    There seems to be a growing consensus amongst commentators that the Australia electoral race (like NZ’s) is increasingly that of choosing between tweedledum and tweedledee. For a good analysis in this regard, see the Sunday Star-Times editorial, “Welcome to a labored version of Howard”:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sundaystartimes/4286967a25948.html

    Bryce
    http://www.liberation.org.nz

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  7. Nick C (336 comments) says:

    Rudd barely even had a campaign. He copied all of Howards policies, apart from a few symbolic things like Kyoto and pulling troops out of Iraq. His slogan was “New Leadership”. Translated: “Vote for me for the sake of it”. So it was laughable whenever he attacked Liberal government policy.

    Kevin has done just about everything to ensure that people dont associate him with the left. He labelled himself an economic conservative, he kicked several radical trade unionists out of the party, he promoted himself as a Christian and he didnt even say who he would turn gay for on Rove (disassociation with the rainbow wing). So really this could be seen as a hollow victory for the Australian left. But watch out for the trade unions, who are still strong within the Labor party. Whether or not Kevin is their puppet we shall see, I am not as convinced as Redbaiter that Kevin is secretly a socialist.

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  8. Nick C (336 comments) says:

    metcalph, they actually said that he was the first labor leader to become prime minister from opposition since 1983, which is different.

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  9. somefella (19 comments) says:

    Wow how bloody typical, David makes an intelligent post and the first comment is from a Conservative nut case. Your religion on conservatism is as crazy as any socialist. Oh and next time do some research about Kyoto’s requirements to come into force before making a fool of yourself (I suggest http://www.wikipedia.org, though perhaps you don’t use it since it is collective effort :-)

    Back in the real world: This result in Australia (where I live) bodes very well for John Key and the National party in NZ next year.

    In NZ I have always voted for ACT and National if I had been able to vote in Australia I would have voted Labor and the Greens; that is how seriously skewed Australian and New Zealand politics are from each other. The Kevin Rudd Labor Party is much closer to the John Key National party than Helen’s Labour, albeit approaching the same ground from two opposite directions. There were policies that helped push Labor over the line but the underlying fundamental reason for the change was because of the Howard governments increasing arrogance very similar to Helen’s.

    Probably the most interesting point made by Kevin during the campaign was his pledge to re-establish the independence and impartiality of the Civil Service; this probably won him few votes in a Australia (a lot of Aussies don’t really care about such lofty ideas) but he still used precious campaigning time to state the goal and reiterate it over the course of a few days.

    I believe the Liberals will be doing some serious soul searching but they will hopefully come out better for it. Currently a lot of their grass roots membership (especially in NSW) is dominated by conservative christian nut cases who felt at home under Howard’s nasty 1950’s social views.
    The Liberals/Nationals now have only about 25% of all seats in Nationwide legislatures (State, Territory and Federal), mainly because they have lost touch with the normal Australians views on the world (too much thinking talk-back callers represent ordinary people :). David is correct Turnbull would be a good leader and he is definitely more the style they will need to deal with Rudd, but he is also right in saying Costello for one term in Opposition before Turnbull as the Liberals will need this to purge themselves properly of the nutters (might give them a chance to win back a state too)

    Another thing of note and of possible global importance is Rudds fluency in Mandarin and his background in the civil service. One can hope he uses these to Australia’s the worlds advantage to engage China seriously about issues like Climate Change and Trade.

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  10. Lindsay Addie (1,468 comments) says:

    RB,

    Of course you’re right about the media coverage, it was obvious watching the coverage on Skynews for months where Kieron Gilbert was very biased towards Rudd. At least Howard answered questions.

    The difference is in the USA at the last Presidential campaign Kerry got found out bigtime by the media when pushed for detail. Same in the current campaign all the candidates are getting a good going over day after day even before the primaries have started.

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  11. Lindsay Addie (1,468 comments) says:

    NEWS FLASH:

    Costello has announced he is NOT a candidate for leader of the Liberal Party.

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  12. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    “One can hope he uses these to Australia’s the worlds advantage to engage China seriously about issues like Climate Change and Trade.”

    Does that mean that Kevin will welcome Chinese warship’s at various ports in Australia ?

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  13. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Helen will get a shot in the arm about this Labour result.

    She’s going the same way as Howard without the dignity.

    Howard was a globalist, he made no secret about that.

    It’s interesting he commented on his Nrthn terty intervention.

    Unfortunately, his attitude was dismantle not education.

    Same ol, same ol.

    I can’t help thinking a fresh approach would have meant a fresh respect, but you can play with indigenous rights around your lil finger in Aus and be seen as taking things seriously by a very ignorant people.

    Howard was a real leader and history would have treated him as such if he had put more stomach into his procedures. As it was , he was hardline to his party and they got first priority. No 1 rule: survive at all costs and you get consensus from where it matters most. Sadly, he could have afforded more leeway but chose the iron fist approach instead and made a great friend out of G. Bush. I think Thatcher would’ve been impressed by him and she had the Queen and Prince Phillip under her spell.

    He was what the world respects; a great white man. This is how Ian Smith has been reported as lately. He warned the world about Mugabe as Churchill warned the world about Hitler.

    Howards Speech was characterised by one statement

    “Australia is the greatest country in the world and Australians are great
    people.”

    When did you hear a NZ politician say that last ????

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  14. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    “Does that mean that Kevin will welcome Chinese warship’s at various ports in Australia ?”

    Yes Cacofinix Doe Doe nutbar bird.

    Australia does not have a ban on warships, so what makes China any different

    Is Australia at war with China ??

    Unbelievable!

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  15. Nick C (336 comments) says:

    Hinamanu: I have never heard a New Zealand politician say that Australia is the greatest country in the world. Nor have I heard one say that NZ is the greatest country in the world. You raised a good point about national pride and character: we have none as it was destroyed by the socialists who hold that New Zealand has no national purpose and is just 2.1 islands in the south pasific.

    Yes, Howards concession speech was very memorable. I cant see Helen Clark doing the same thing, given that she is desperatly trying to hold onto power with the electoral finance bill.

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  16. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    “Yes Cacofinix Doe Doe nutbar bird.”

    Sorry Miss Hinumoo , what was your name again coward girly ? Great to see you having a go again . Aren’t you getting a little tired of it ? What a wally !!

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  17. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    When you give up, I’ll give up.

    You key board coward to the masses.

    No shows at Cathedral sq and you want to meet me there

    Uggghhh,,

    Your hypocrisy tells me how labour lite you are.

    Always complaining bout every one like you’re squeaky clean.

    Obviously you haven’t taken notice of what the real men say to you.

    and why aren’t you on community radio justice troll.

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  18. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    Whatever Miss hinumoo , some mothers do have em ! Get a life you creep !!

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  19. somefella (19 comments) says:

    Why did I even bother,

    I should of listened to my own internal dialog: “Never click on the comments link, it will own cause disappointment in humanity”.

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  20. davemc (102 comments) says:

    metcalph, they actually said that he was the first labor leader to become prime minister from opposition since 1983, which is different.

    Yes, the story said that. But the heading in the actual paper newspaper said “Rudd the first Labor leader since 1983.”

    That is so pig ignorant that heads should roll.

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  21. shadylady (10 comments) says:

    somefella – I thought yours was an execellent post, especially in light of the civil service and what’s happening here with Setchell, Curren, Logan and Prebble.

    D4J and Hinamanu – give it up – both your rantings at each other spoil any enjoyment of reading otherwise good commentary (with the exception of a few trolls).

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  22. somefella (19 comments) says:

    shadylady – thanks, good to know some people have an IQ bigger than there shoe size :)

    Despite coming from historically different backgrounds and having many policy differences there seems to have been a strange Anglo Saxon mirroring going on between the American Republican, British Labour, Australian Liberal and New Zealand Labour parties in the way they have come to use and abuse executive power.

    It is like they all woke up one day and went “wait up, a lot of this stuff we do is because of conventions, there are actually no rules stopping us from doing it” and the public largely let it happen.

    That is why Rudd’s pronouncements about the civil service were interesting, there was no huge political gain in saying it but having watched it happen from opposition he had decided the genie has to be put somewhat back in the bottle for the good of the country and the democracy.

    This seems to be happening with National in NZ as well, the EFB especially is prompting some pretty powerful and eloquent speeches from the likes of Finlayson and English. And with NZ not having a written constitution or a upper house it is all the more important. (Though Australia’s lack of a bill of rights means their constitution has it’s own problems)

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  23. tim barclay (886 comments) says:

    An informal term limit of 10 years as PM is more than enough for a PM. If you have not achieved your political goals by then then you never will. But there is no easy answer to make a transition in Government, it never seems to work satisfactorily.

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  24. Peak Oil Conspiracy (3,253 comments) says:

    Redbaiter:

    Objective media people would have pressed Rudd on how he was going to deal with interest rates. Where are they? The media is full of leftist sympathizers, and they’re a large part of the reason for Howard’s demise and Krudd’s ascension to power.

    Having followed Election 2007 very closely, I fully endorse these comments.

    I tuned into the election results on ABC TV. Unbelievably, they had a crowd of Labor-friendly (in Australia it’s Labor, not Labour) supporters in a room behind the presenters, whose frequent banshee-like screechings could be heard and interfered with the televised broadcast. Even the presenters were visibly irritated, and for ABC that’s saying something.

    Not to worry. There was Channel 7 and Channel 9. Even Channel 10 interrupted Star Wars V (a blast from the past) at key moments to stream speeches from Maxine McKew (who’s toppled Howard in the Bennelong seat), Howard and Rudd.

    From my observation of the election campaign, the media was definitely agitating for a Labor victory. Having said that, the Coalition did itself no favours with silly scandals. And Rudd outflanked Howard in the final days of the campaign, by pointing out that Labor was offering a smaller bag of election bribes than the Coalition. This diluted the Coalition’s message about fiscal conservatism. Ultimately, Election 2007 was Kevin Rudd’s to lose, and his message resonated more with voters.

    There are interesting parallels with New Zealand. In 1999 Labour was elected on the back of an “it’s time for change” campaign. In 2007 the Australian Labor Party employed a similar strategy, with similar success.

    I look forward to election 2008 in New Zealand – will the Left accept that it’s time for change (as in 1997) or has the born-to-rule mentality set in?

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  25. somefella (19 comments) says:

    Of course that is the reason the Libs lost, it is all the ABCs fault ;-)

    That crowd you were talking about were in the Canberra Tally room behind the temporary studios each of the stations had set up. The tally room is open to the public and is in no way connected to the ABC. The only reason you heard lots of cheering from the Labor supporters was because they were winning, the Liberal people were understandably a bit subdued. Though three days before the Libs had hijacked the normally bi-partisan Press Club speech by Howard to act like a bunch of buffoons who clapped overly loudly for Howard and shouted down any reporters who asked hard questions.

    The media did have a hard time grilling Rudd but that was because he made sure they didn’t have a chance too. I believe mostly this is a reflection of the fact he is not very good at handling the serious media yet and so doggedly stuck to the script when he was interviewed (though he did get caught out a few times). On the other hand Labors deputy Julia Gillard was excellent with the media and was very good at being able to always sound confident and sure in her responses to hard questions, hence Labor purposefully used her in some of the more tricky interviews. In other words Labor ran a very tight very disciplined campaign, which is what was needed against a good politician like Howard.

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  26. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Whether or not Kevin is their puppet we shall see, I am not as convinced as Redbaiter that Kevin is secretly a socialist.”

    Here’s how it works. Krudd gets elected by claiming to be an economic conservative blah blah blah. The left media purposefully plays down the fact that he’s backed by a cadre of hard leftists/ socialists- Union thugs and “ex” communists.

    Once elected, Krudd takes the front man role and plays it centrist, whilst behind the scenes in the smokey backrooms where puffy faced pale skinned commies love to hang out, they plot to incrementally implement their global socialist agenda. Meanwhile, Krudd and the media plants make sure that attention is diverted elsewhere.

    Its happened in NZ. It will happen in Australia, and it will happen in the US when Clinton gets elected, as she will by means of the same strategies as Krudd employed- say nothing and have a compliant media.

    Its the end of democracy as it has been known for some time, (in Australia) for the most important element of today’s socialist governments is their willingness to use government to cement their hold on power. Just as Klark has done in NZ, so Krudd will politicise the public service, take control of the justice system, appoint socialist lackies to head a myriad of different qangoes, make the education system even more of an indoctrination process and hand out stolen money to political favorites and those who will vote for them.

    The election of Krudd and his band of power obsessed Fabian/ Gramscian socialist thugs isn’t just a bad thing for Australian society, its a disaster for Australian democracy.

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  27. Peak Oil Conspiracy (3,253 comments) says:

    Somefella:

    Some interesting comments from you. I don’t recall seeing the same roudy mob disrupting other channel broadcasts though?

    The media did have a hard time grilling Rudd but that was because he made sure they didn’t have a chance too.

    You mean Rudd wasn’t prepared to be transparent about his policies? And you support this?

    On the other hand Labors deputy Julia Gillard was excellent with the media and was very good at being able to always sound confident and sure in her responses to hard questions, hence Labor purposefully used her in some of the more tricky interviews.

    So you support style over substance?

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  28. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    Just as Klark has done in NZ, so Krudd will politicise the public service, take control of the justice system, appoint socialist lackies to head a myriad of different qangoes, make the education system even more of an indoctrination process and hand out stolen money to political favorites and those who will vote for them.

    I’m in despairing agreement with you on this redbaiter…

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  29. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Your religion on conservatism is as crazy as any socialist.”

    A statement that proves you know fuck all about Socialism and even less about Conservatives. The left obsess over big government, and want it to grow larger and more powerful everyday, at the same time as they ruthlessly use that government to impose their sick religion upon non-believers, and work assiduously and endlessly towards the totalitarian political outcomes they desire so desperately. Like rust never sleeps, so the left are striving day and night, locally and through their global networks, with three times the zeal of any Christian, to incrementally bring about the totalitarian socialist state they believe will be Nirvana.

    Conservatives just want to be left alone, and to leave others alone. They want small government, and they see no role for government in controlling the political views of the citizenry. They have no networks, they have no “councils”, no global organisations like the left.

    That you don’t recognise this simple difference Somefella, indicates to me you’re pretty much a victim of political ignorance and ideological confusion, an impression reinforced by your claim to be an ACT supporter in NZ but a Greens and Labour supporter in Australia. What irrational drivel.

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  30. Luke C (6 comments) says:

    Where are all the right wingers going to move to now? I guessing they wouldn’t want to go to Aussie now with the commies in govt there now. Also I don’t think you guys can hang on another year here in our facist state the country being run by commies and nazis. What are you all going to do?

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  31. somefella (19 comments) says:

    Peak Oil :

    The same rowdy mob was behind all of them (they were all backing on to the same room) but they were congregated mainly outside the ABC’s studio because the ABC is the coverage most political geeks (like themselves) were watching. Plus you probably couldn’t hear them as easily from the other studios because of the sound effects :-).

    No I don’t support that, except to say that he was as transparent about his plans as the other side. Just because I think they ran a good campaign doesn’t mean I agree with the way it was run (If we ever have an open honest campaign from either side I will be as surprised as the next guy :-) . Both sides have been throwing out big policies with big numbers all campaign with little or no scrutiny. All of the media (commercial and public) have become overly obsessed with tripping the politicians up in interviews rather than asking deeply informed questions.

    This has a lot to do with Howard being able to have used trivial shallow slip ups to punish the opposition in past campaigns, which in turn has to do with Australia’s compulsory voting meaning a lot of political apathetic people voting based on very shallow grounds.

    In fact it sounds like in this respect the whole “Muslims under the bed” pamphlet debacle may have done exactly that to the Liberals in some seats this time round. George Megolgenis from the Australian is convinced that may have been the reason Bennelong (Howards seat) ended up Labor, their spot polls in Bennelong which had previously been steady for weeks started show a lot of movement on Thursday evening after that story broke and was handled so badly.

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  32. somefella (19 comments) says:

    Redbaiter:

    Again I point you to wikipedia, what you describe as a conservative is actually the definition of a classic Liberal :-).

    When I refer to conservative I am referring to the Bill O’Reilly/ Alan Jones type, a nasty sniping bigot, which Howard was pretty good at playing too.

    On economic matters Labor and Liberal are pretty much identical now, which is probably best put under the title Monetarist, the old Karl Max verses Milton Friedman battles are mostly over in the Anglo Saxon economies and Milton has largely won. There are differences but compared to before the 1980’s they are very minor (saying that NZ does seems to still have a more active left wing element, which makes more noise than actual policy)

    Remember Howard was treasurer under Fraser in the 1970’s and like Bill Birch changed with the times and the reforms brought in by a Labor/Labour government in the 1980’s.

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  33. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Again I point you to wikipedia”

    Don’t. Its not objective commentary. Its partisian opinion. Wikipedia might be a useful source of information on many subjects, but not on political issues.

    “a nasty sniping bigot”

    You seem to have a lot of difficulty differentiating opinion from fact. (That’s a personality trait that is usually a pretty strong identifier of a socialist.) I don’t mind you expressing your opinions. On Bill O’Reillly or Alan Jones or anyone. I just don’t like the impliction that such views are unchallengeable fact.

    “what you describe as a conservative is actually the definition of a classic Liberal”

    I’m working to restore Conservatism to its roots. We were the original Libertarians.

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  34. somefella (19 comments) says:

    Redbaiter:

    While I am at it. In regards to my ideological confusion, yep I am ideologically confused because I don’t subscribe to anyones pre-defined ideology, no political party is ever going to match my views 100 percent so I will like most normal people choose the one that I think will best move the country forward.

    And the fact you are scathing about me currently supporting two different types of parties in two different countries shows how blinded by ideology you are and how little you understand Australian politics and their parliamentary system.

    Maybe if Howard had been ready to “leave others alone” he would have been more my kind of guy. Instead he was busy interfering with the Civil Service, interfering with the ABC , denying basic human rights to people he didn’t like (foreigners, aborigines and homosexuals) and introducing scary police state laws in the name of fighting terrorism. In all of these ways he was more similar to Helen Clarks government than the previous New Zealand National government.

    Rudd hasn’t said a lot about many of these issues and it will be interesting to see where he does stand, but as I said he did talk about bringing back and entrenching the independence and integrity of the civil service which is a good start. There is definitely a feeling that you get from him that he would have a harder time advancing the same policies as Howard or Clark (I don’t think he could sell it, and he would seem very unconvincing trying to).

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  35. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    ” The difference is in the USA at the last Presidential campaign Kerry got found out bigtime by the media when pushed for detail. ”

    For excellent analysis of the left wing slant of the mainstream media read Newsbusters. Daily if you can. It identifies patterns of bias and political favouritism that can be seen in the mainstream media in all of the so called western democracies.

    If you’re fighting for freedom, these days the media is largely your enemy. In times of big government socialism and with their slavish devotion to that political concept, they are traitors to their traditional trade of protecting the weak from the strong.

    http://newsbusters.org/

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  36. somefella (19 comments) says:

    Redbaiter:

    ———-
    “The Kyoto Protocol was never meant to actually take effect, and it hasn’t really.”

    You seem to have a lot of difficulty differentiating opinion from fact. (That’s a personality trait that is usually a pretty strong identifier of a socialist.) I don’t mind you expressing your opinions on Kyoto. I just don’t like the impliction that such views are unchallengeable fact.

    :-)
    ——————-

    I wish you luck in changing conservatism from what it has come to represent. Unfortunately the influence of Christians in America seems to have irreversibly changed the label forever (and has then spread it around the world).

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  37. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “I will like most normal people ”

    I suggest you speak for yourself, and leave ‘normal people’ to do the same.

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  38. Peak Oil Conspiracy (3,253 comments) says:

    Somefella:

    We agree on at least one thing: the ALP rehearsed its lines and trotted them out dutifully.

    Two phrases I heard from Rudd over and over during the campaign were “working families” (a wonderful soundbite that tames the worm) and “unemployed diplomat who speaks Mandarin”. The ALP line (Rudd, Gillard et al) on tax cuts was we’ll announce them “in due season”. The season apparently changed only a few days later.

    Speaking more generally, I think it’s fair to say that the media does a woefully inadequate job of grilling electoral candidates on their policy positions. I’ve long concluded that it’s due to a lack of public interest, hence the focus on “sexy” issues. Tony Abbott turning up late to a debate and swearing. Front-page news. Rudd on industrial relations: we’ll repeal WorkChoices legislation. Nothing specific on what’ll replace it. Back-page news.

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  39. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “The Kyoto Protocol was never meant to actually take effect, and it hasn’t really.”

    While I said that, I fully realize that it is opinion, and quite likely to be challenged, and quite possibly I may learn something from any challenge. You on the other hand speak with the certainty of a bigot.

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  40. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Unfortunately the influence of Christians”

    So you’re homosexual right? ..and like so many of them, the problems your sexuality creates for you are what defines your definition of freedom, your perceptions of Christians, and your ideas on Conservatism. Why don’t you take your eyes of your navel once in a while?

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  41. Pascal (1,969 comments) says:

    I suggest http://www.wikipedia.org

    Oh dear. There’s another internet educated wonder. And already performing on a level with the Nome.

    As to the main topic, I am seriously wondering what effect this will have on New Zealand -> Australia migration. Considering we will (possibly) be facing a National led government and that Australia is now facing the slow decline of a socialist styled government – what will happen?

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  42. somefella (19 comments) says:

    Peak Oil:

    Exactly, I still have no idea what either party was actually proposing or had put in place -in regards to work place legislation. But I do know that Rudd like earwax :)

    What ever your views about NZs work place laws they have at least since the ECA been pretty easy to find out what your rights are and how the system works.

    At first the Howard reforms looked similar to the ECA but as soon as you did any digging you discovered there was lack of detail as to how the hell it worked and what your rights were, this worked against Howard hugely, it meant the other side could attack the law easily without having to offer up much of a substantive alternative. Labors own work place laws seem to be same thing changed slightly, still no real concrete information on what your rights are and how the legal process works.

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  43. Pascal (1,969 comments) says:

    RedBaiter: So you’re homosexual right?

    You deduced that from somebody saying “Unfortunately the influence of Christians“? Sweet merciful heavens, I do believe we have a candidate for Sensing Murder on our hands. Have you considered applying to be one of their mediums?

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  44. somefella (19 comments) says:

    “So you’re homosexual right? ..and like so many of them, the problems your sexuality creates for you are what defines your definition of freedom, your perceptions of Christians, and your ideas on Conservatism. Why don’t you take your eyes of your navel once in a while?”

    No I am an Atheist, but I do believe no government has the right to distribute human rights based on sex, race or sexual orientation; surely that fits with your assertion the government should stay out of peoples lives ?

    I can be gay if you want me to however, I am of course just like you a keyboard on the end of an internet connection, anonymity is the ultimate freedom :-)

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  45. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Sweet merciful heavens, I do believe we have a candidate for Sensing Murder on our hands.”

    ..and I was right Pascal. Its elementary. Nobody so narrowly targets Christians as the homosexual “rights” sector.

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  46. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    yes Ms somefella, as one of my favourite things about the internet is that you get into the private world of real socialist creeps without having to smell them !

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  47. Paul (1,315 comments) says:

    RB

    “Conservatives just want to be left alone, and to leave others alone. They want small government, and they see no role for government in controlling the political views of the citizenry”

    Sweet jesus man you are talking about Libertarian ideals akin to ACT than any form of conservatism.

    But I see you’re resorted to name calling already, Krudd? Did you want to be left alone in the social development areas too, or is talking like a primary school kid classed as the norm on the right – I doubt it.

    And I thought I was coming here to see some interesting insight into the views of the right and the election victory in OZ.

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  48. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Sweet jesus man you are talking about Libertarian ideals akin to ACT than any form of conservatism.”

    WTF would you know? One of the most politically ignorant trolls to ever show up here.

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  49. Paul (1,315 comments) says:

    Somefella

    “The Kevin Rudd Labor Party is much closer to the John Key National party than Helen’s Labour”

    Hmmm. How does that stand up with official Labour policy?

    Employment law – Will abolish individual employment contracts
    Tax – Will defer tax cuts for people earning $180,000
    Health – Will negotiate new agreements with states and territories as part of a $2.5 billion hospital and healthcare plan, promising to take full financial control of the system if they fail to meet prescribed standards by mid-2009
    Environment – Will ratify the Kyoto Protocol
    Childcare – Will boost childcare rebate
    Aboriginal – Will sign the UN declaration on indigenous rights

    Key’s claims “agenda very similar to my own” is either a statement of a liar, or he is willing to sell the right out, or is a very confused individual.

    Kevin Rudd is no more right/wing centralist as RB and Dad are piko commies.

    Bryce E, a little weak analysis wasn’t it. A new Labour PM in 12 years with an obvious mandate is hardly going to sit on his pinko commie hands, he will bring left changes or feel the wrath of the voter.

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  50. bobbytambling (41 comments) says:

    And I thought I was coming here to see some interesting insight into the views of the right and the election victory in OZ.

    And I thought wan king was a village in China

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  51. Paul (1,315 comments) says:

    More abuse, nice, I see you’re not bothering to offer an analysis of what a conservative or libertarian is, or even the distinction between the two.

    But still keep up the abuse it obviously gives you some sort of power feeling.

    “WTF would you know” Sunshine there is Amoeba on some far distant planet et discovered that has a better understanding of political ideologies than you do, and is probably a lot better at articulating it too.

    Still, nice to see political debate and repartee at it’s best.

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  52. Paul (1,315 comments) says:

    “wan king”

    He he that is so funny. Hasn’t mum put you to bed yet? My 4 year old boy thinks freakin is a funny word. I should get you two on skype some time, riveting stuff.

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  53. Paul (1,315 comments) says:

    RB

    “Its the end of democracy”???

    What, the people voting for government. Yeah democracy is such a sham.

    But there we are starting to get to the soul of your political ideology, you have a distain for the left and the populous in general, and those pesky bloody governments that they keep electing eh.

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  54. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    Hows Canada Paul and the pesky bugs ?

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  55. bobbytambling (41 comments) says:

    Ok Paul point taken

    how about

    National supporters/posters are like a pubic hair on a toilet seat
    sooner or later one will come along and piss you off

    shall i give up ?

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  56. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    Labour supporters/posters are like large smelly logs in a toilet bowl , thank goodness for the double flush .

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  57. Paul (1,315 comments) says:

    Bob,

    no, not piss me off. I was just expecting some interesting insights.

    FFS, The right just lost in OZ, that so called economic nirvana or golden path that apparently all kiwis want to move to, and instead of people here using their right wing blog to say, ok what can we learn from this, what was it that the govt stuffed up on and how can we make sure that Key et al don’t fall for those mistakes, which I would have thought would have been interesting.

    instead we get “large smelly logs in a toilet bowl”.

    I really hope DPF doesn’t want his blog to be taken seriously, cause this is a bloody joke. I’ve read everything from KRudd being a conservative akin to Key, to democracy is dead in OZ and pinko commie bastards will be running the country via the back door, to the none to nostalgic hankerings of the days of misogynistic bigotry and racism.

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  58. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “I’ve read everything from KRudd being a conservative akin to Key, to democracy is dead in OZ and pinko commie bastards will be running the country via the back door, to the none to nostalgic hankerings of the days of misogynistic bigotry and racism.”

    ..and all because you chose to.

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  59. Paul (1,315 comments) says:

    RB,

    I know, who’s the biggest dickhead, me for reading this shite, or some here for actually typing this crap.

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  60. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    Maybe I can help you Paul , as your dick head abilities are so typical of a red log that won’t flush ?

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  61. Paul (1,315 comments) says:

    ew, dad keep away from me and any analogies with the nether-regions, that’s just creepy.

    When was the last time you tried to talk policy or politics. Just a question? 1983?

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  62. somefella (19 comments) says:

    Paul:

    “Employment law – Will abolish individual employment contracts”

    No will abolish AWA’s this part of the work place policy I do understand, an AWA is not what a Kiwi would call an employment contract. The last AWA I had was only 3 pages long with hardly any rights or details. What I am on now is a common law contract these will continue and will be the method of individual agreement. A lot of people are already on these and they look almost identical in content to a New Zealand employment contract. As I have said earlier though what rights are minimums and what legal process you would have to go through to dispute something is very hazy in Australia and Labor doesn’t seem to be about to clear this up.

    “Tax – Will defer tax cuts for people earning $180,000″

    You don’t pay more tax than in NZ until you earn over that much in Aussie anyway, so they are already starting from a much lower Tax level (and about to get lower). Labor promising to keep Costellos tax policy means National in NZ will have some big cuts to make to get to the NZ levels. For instance my wife and I pay $10,000 less tax per year than in NZ on the same incomes.

    “Health – Will negotiate new agreements with states and territories as part of a $2.5 billion hospital and healthcare plan, promising to take full financial control of the system if they fail to meet prescribed standards by mid-2009″

    Well this is all mixed up with the state federal split, my guess would be this would be exactly the same as what Labour in NZ did , pour a whole bunch of money into a broken system with little or no change. However again Australia is starting from a better base, the fact that so many upper and middle income people opt to have private health insurance (because it has good conditions around it in return for a federal subsidy) takes pressure off the public system.

    “Environment – Will ratify the Kyoto Protocol”

    Well hasn’t John Key reversed the previous National position of un-signing ?

    “Childcare – Will boost childcare rebate”

    Middle class welfare , they all seem to be into that, Labour – National , Labor – Liberal. It is like some sort of political party drug :) (though Labour in NZ seem to take the cake with their ridiculous working families package where they give back money to the same people they taxed it from)

    “Aboriginal – Will sign the UN declaration on indigenous rights”

    About bloody time, it is funny in NZ National seemed to do more in the 1990’s to speed along the reconciliation process than Labour has done since. Meanwhile the Liberals up until 6 months ago have treated the Aborigines as “Out of site, out of mind”. Australia has a long way to go to catch up with the civilized world in its treatment of its least well off citizens.

    The important thing about Labor is how much is not going to change, unlike Labour in NZ in 1999, the changes they are promising to make like work choices and Kyoto are overwhelmingly supported by the electorate. Where as Labour NZ used the opportunity to sneak through some very ideological changes like abolishing the ACC reforms and raising the top tax rate.

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  63. Paul (1,315 comments) says:

    Interesting,

    the points come cut and paste from a guide pout out by the Australian Newspaper, not my words.

    I can’t find the link from the paper, so here’s a link to the pdf from my site as I downloaded it yesterday.

    http://concernedoflinwood.wordpress.com/files/2007/11/071123-votingguide.pdf

    “Will sign the UN declaration on indigenous rights” Nz shamefully along with Canada and the US are now out alone in not doing this.

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  64. somefella (19 comments) says:

    Hmm , thanks for that Bro.

    They definitely have some of the work place policies wrong, because as I said we will still have common law contracts (and Labor predict a lot of people will move to these from AWAs) plus the will retain the abolition of unfair dismissal laws for people earning over $100,000 (I know this because I will be effected by it).

    Also they don’t seem to mention that the Tax cuts will still exist just that those over $180,000 will get less of a benefit than under Liberal.

    The other policies I couldn’t say in detail but to get the Work Place ones wrong is not a good sign seeing as though it was a big issue.

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  65. Pascal (1,969 comments) says:

    Redbaiter: ..and I was right

    Actually, you were wrong. But let’s not have facts stand in the way of bigotry, eh?

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  66. cha (3,946 comments) says:

    Heh!, from an Aussie message board.

    “LONGINUS wrote:
    Brilliant statesman who’s experience will be sorely missed in this country.

    Complying with the current model of Kyoto will be very expensive for this country, a lot of industries will struggle and hence unemployment will rise but thankfully the unions will be back now to go on strike every time a business has to make a tough decision just to survive..er I mean the unions will keep us strong again. Ah well, bring on the interest rates, nothing like an impossible mortgage to focus the family unit.

    Interesting times ahead.

    Wake up idiot.

    1: There’s no pain-free solution to the problem of climate change. It’s going to involve a complete overhaul of our industries and consumption patterns. Sooner or later we’re going to have to bite the bullet, and businesses and individuals and – gasp! – the economy – are going to suffer. I’d much rather see a PM with vision and the willingness to go on the front foot, making Australia a leader in addressing the most pressing issue we’ve ever faced, rather than keeping us the world’s biggest per capita wasters of energy & resources.

    I’m not saying Rudd’s necessarily the man for the job. But he’s certainly more alert to the climate change problem than Howard, who only recently (and reluctantly) stopped denying that there was any problem at all, and whose vision has largely extended to saying “well, we’re not going to do anything radical if it’s going to hurt our economy”. The hurt is coming, whether we like it or not, and to pussy out on making the hard decisions (in order to serve corporate business interests) is grossly irresponsible.

    2: Unions do lots of useful things apart from going on strike & fucking businesses over. The Coalition’s scare campaign on “union bosses” has appealed to the absolute lowest common denominator of intelligence, and yet there you are sucking it right up.

    3: Control over interest rates is not entirely in the hands of any government. The Reserve Bank and global financial circumstances have as much influence over the direction of interest rates as the government does. Which is why they’ve been going up, in spite of Howard’s best efforts to keep them low. It’s not entirely his fault, and it won’t be entirely Rudd’s fault if they go up under Labor.

    4: I am so fucking sick of seeing political debate in Australia reduced to arguments about the economy. I’ve got a large mortgage, and I’m as vulnerable to economic hard times as anyone else. But no matter how bad things get, I’ll still be doing pretty well by comparison with a refugee banged up in a detention centre, or a bloke with three casual jobs who still can’t afford to take a holiday or pay his bills, or most Muslim immigrants, or almost any indigenous Australian you care to mention. And then there are all those thousands of dead Iraqi civilians whose slaughter Australia has actively supported in a war that we had no moral or strategic cause to be involved in. And I’m probably better off than most people involved in tertiary education or the arts, who have had their funding & resources cut year by year by year.

    These are all the people your “brilliant statesman” has screwed for the past decade, while ramping up xenophobia and racism and the “war on terror” and playing on the meanest, narrowest, dumbest & most self-centred interests of the electorate. You’re probably too thick to realise it, but all this is just as important to the fabric of Australian society as the economy.

    Anyway… interesting times indeed. Suck shit, loser, and I hope you get an ulcer watching the latte sippers, chardonnay swillers, bleeding hearts and limp-wristed do-gooders run the country for a while “

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  67. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “But let’s not have facts stand in the way of bigotry, eh?”

    What bigotry? Are you one of those PC arse lickers who equates any simple questioning of homosexual political doctrine to bigotry or what? Maybe you could give the precise example rather than just utter the smear and the allegation.

    ..and I’m not wrong.

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  68. david c (254 comments) says:

    “Just as Klark has done in NZ, so Krudd will politicise the public service”

    Do you think it makes a good insult if you just add K in front of a political leader’s name?

    What you gonna do if Key wins next year bud?

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  69. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    What you gonna do if Key wins next year bud?

    Oh, Klark lite you mean? Probably quite appropriate.

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