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November 5, 2007 9:11am by David Farrar

General Debate 5 November 2007

It’s Guy Fawkes time!

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vto

first!

its also only 10 days to the end of whitebaiting on the west coast!
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November 5, 2007 9:19am
philu

the ‘maximum impact’ box from ‘the switched on gardener’..

is the best fizz/flare/bang for yr buck..

(just so you know..!..eh..?..)

and if you are a ‘woosh..boom..bang!’ fan..

i’d grab a couple of ‘white spiders’ while you’re there..eh..?

‘the boy’ and i both nodded in approval at that little beauty..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 5, 2007 9:31am
Monty

I am so pleased that the public are being so cynical about Labour’s offer of tax-cuts. On Holmes this morning all but one of his callers see the offer of tax cuts as cynical, opportunistic, and an election year bribe. Labour will not have a lift on the polls following the conference.

The Highlight of the conference for me became one lefty bashing another lefty. So funny.
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November 5, 2007 9:46am
side show bob

I see Dear Leader is spewing about the unruly behavour when it comes to fireworks. She truly is a stupid woman has she not heard of the proverb “you will reap what you have sown”. This government has over the years cut the nuts out of police, the poor buggers have nearly no powers when it comes to dealing with youth. If police could kick some of these misbehaving youth up the arse before trouble has even started many of the problems of disorder would not be around to day. But no, the stupid fucking socialists will of course have to ban something else, shit this is becomming a depressing country.
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November 5, 2007 10:01am
dime

i havent bought fireworks this year… BUT

if you want some fun…

buy either “party next door” or “national solute”

slice them open with a knife.. take out the “shots” which are little pellets. you need to cut the wick into 5 pieces.. now, attach wick to each shot.. you basically get 5 little cannon balls.. i usually enclose some gunpowder (that is also in the stick) wrap in tissue and tape up.

these are insane when let off at ground level. think someone shooting a shotgun next to your head 🙂

anyway

can you believe helen wants to ban guy fakwes?? dam that angry dyke!
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November 5, 2007 10:03am
dad4justice

All rockets are ready too launch SIR !!

Bomber command red alert ….
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November 5, 2007 10:11am
dad4justice

“its also only 10 days to the end of whitebaiting on the west coast!”

Careful vto, IRD lurk here , I just a scored a bucket full on the a special spot this morning . Good buzz .

vto- I hear bloody floods on Coast have made fishing rather difficult ?? Someone complained about me fishing to early . They rung Clayton Gosgrove and the shit hit the fan . Pity the nitwit didn’t come down the river for a swim !!
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November 5, 2007 10:15am
Barnsley Bill

Did anybody else see Clarke’s performance on Breakfast this morning.
Her skin was grey and clay like. She has absolutely no facial expressions whatsoever. This must be due to industrial quantities of Botox or the fact that she is as many of us have suspected for quite some time….. A vampire.
Her forehead does not move at all anymore, we have got used to watching her talk without her opening her mouth (and I must say I am very grateful for the consideration she is showing by not letting us see those teeth) but the new frozen scowl is quite off putting.
Paul Henry let himself down this morning with an uncharacteristically obsequious performance and did not mention the magaphone incident at all.
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November 5, 2007 10:22am
vto

hee hee d4j. just fun and feeds for me and the fambly.

but i hear it has been ………. (secret secret).

thats one of the great things about ‘bait. never believe a word you hear, except when you see those runs for yourself where the ‘bait are going ballistic in their billions. I can only imagine how it was pre-human contagion.

horribly addictive the ‘baiting.
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November 5, 2007 10:22am
dime

Henry always goes easy on her. not sure why.
makes me like him even less.
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November 5, 2007 10:24am
vto

hey Barnsley Bill, I dont understand why nobody seems to really get stuck into her. No media. No opposition pollies. No other entity. I dont understand it – why not someone with standing or office make the accusations of hypocrisy, theft, violence, etc and then not back down when she goes into her grim mode. Fight back hard. And with grim determination. Go at her like she goes at others. Make the fight heavy and very hard-hitting. Key should be doing this I would have thought. Most seem too scared.

I would but I dont think I would get the traction due to invisibility.
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November 5, 2007 10:27am
cubit9f

So Treasury got it all wrong.

The political masters now say

“We have been taking too much tax. We have been spending much more on social services. But we have got too much left over. We can’t give it back though because those who have paid the most might get the most back. That would be unfair wouldn’t it?. We are going to have to go away and think about how we can screw them a bit more”
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November 5, 2007 10:31am
dad4justice

Hey vto , whitebait fever , great fun and many a good yarn to be had on river , yesterday I fished in front of a gang member who was in was in front of a judge a wee bit back up stream . Everybody gets on and we don’t have clever trevor punch ups like in parliament . My children love eating it as it is so fresh jumping around in the pan . I ate 1 kilogram for breakfast this morning with me mates down on a river . You should hear what the lads say about the Labour Party on the river ? Lol , they all reckon -poor Miss Klark because she is heading for the nuthouse .
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November 5, 2007 10:34am
Barnsley Bill

Henry has been a bit more in her face lately, he certainly mocked mallard openly all week last week. And he made some quite sarcastic comments about Chris Carter this morning.
Nobody in the media has the plums to get right up her.
I believe our media are too scared of her to climb in. You cannot do your job if you are suddenly cut off, either that or none of them like wearing garlic necklaces when in her presence. Her face this morning was extraordinary, it just did not move the way you would expect a woman in her late 50’s to look.
Hopefully TVNZ will post a clip on their site of her interview soon.
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November 5, 2007 10:37am
calendar girl

Do these TVNZ interviewers have to supply in advance a list of their intended questions?
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November 5, 2007 10:44am
Barnsley Bill

Calender girl.
For Clarke I would imagine the answer is yes. She certainly lit up last week when he snuck in a mallard question and not mentioning the ginga pugilist with his megaphone is beyond belief unless he was under orders not to mention it.
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November 5, 2007 10:47am
vto

d4j – i get the idea you are coast whitebaiting. we built a place there and escape to it when we can.

It is interesting what you say about the way clark and labour are perceived there as I see it too. Remember – the coast is labour heartland.

Now, in our local pub over there they have a picture of Michael Joseph Savage on the wall. As you would expect.

But now, on the pub notice board they have clippings (plural!) from the newspapers of Clark et al festooned with Hitler style mo’s and the most rude an cutting comments scrawled across them in bright red pen. In the most public of pub notice boards. You know – next to the pool draw and the raffle results. She and they are hated, in their own heartland.

It is quite something to see and a very noticeable ramping up on the coasters part in just the last year or so especially. Heartland labour country with Savage proudly on the wall of the local pub and clark viciously lampooned.

Trotter, Clark Cullen Tane Sam etc etc should go visit and take it all in. It is a fascinating commentary on the current status of labour. And it is not pretty.
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November 5, 2007 10:51am
cubit9f

Highlight of the Labour conference had to be Mark Burton leading the singing of the Labour (or is that National) anthem.

Truly inpirational lyrics and melody performed by a thoroughly dynamic group of singers led by marvellous Mark.
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November 5, 2007 10:52am
Barnsley Bill

Clip of clarkula now up on TV1 site.

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/497100/1429758

click on the “weekly chat with PM” tag

Look at her forehead!
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November 5, 2007 11:06am
wellybelly

Anybody else think it’s ironic to have an open day at parliament the day before Guy Fawkes’?

I’m pleased to see that the usual security boost after a terrorist threat eventually softens… after 400 years.
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November 5, 2007 11:15am
Grant

Thanks BB. Just had a look, and she’s not looking too flash.

To PhilU, dime, and co, make the most of your fireworks, Nanny Helen obviously doesn’t like them……

G
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November 5, 2007 11:32am
david c

Why is it, that when Labour offer tax cuts it’s vote buying but when National do it’s sound economic policy?
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November 5, 2007 11:36am
Barnsley Bill

David C
Because Clarkula has been poo pooing the very notion of Tax cuts for years and now she is looking like losing her job they are on the table.
It is not just about tax cuts, it is also the profligate waste and the way they have sprayed our money around like a mad ladies piss.
To blame treasury for not allowing tax cuts is just another in a very long list of lies that have come from this sorry crowd.
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November 5, 2007 11:52am
david c

But if people get the tax cuts does the motivation mean anything?
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November 5, 2007 11:54am
Barnsley Bill

The motivation is irrelevant to me, I don’t care whether they come from labour or the Nats. It is the venal self interest being shown by Clarkula that I hold up to contempt.
There is nothing that woman will not do to retain the treasury benches.
They have spent Billions of extra dollars in health and education and all reports tell us that services have not improved in health to the point where waiting lists were culled and only an ideologically pure labour mentalist would suggest NCEA is a winner.
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November 5, 2007 12:01pm
dad4justice

I wonder what motivation means to the thousands upon thousands of kiwi’s catching the outta here bird travelling across to ditch to settle and raise their families . Who can blame them , look how the All Blacks used motivation , pc has destroyed this country !
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November 5, 2007 12:06pm
david c

d4j you didn’t actually say anything there, so well done. Barnsley Bill I concede that Labour do seem to be in a policy of power for power’s sake but it just amuses me that a number of Nat supporters now decry the thought of tax cuts because they come from Labour. I’m just interested to know if it’s the motivation that bothers y’all?
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November 5, 2007 12:08pm
Bevan

Why is it, that when Labour offer tax cuts it’s vote buying but when National do it’s sound economic policy?

Because Labour has been campaigning against them up until now, calling them unaffordable, even scaremongering against them by saying that to bring in Tax cuts would mean a cut to vital services. Whereas National has consistantly called for them. Like others have said, the only reason Clark is calling for them now is so she can remain on such a large salary.
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November 5, 2007 12:13pm
Pascal

Out of curiosity – who the bloody hell cares what Helen Clark looks like or what she does not look like? Isn’t it about time we started judging politicians on their actions rather than their looks? Denigrating her for her looks is just so second form.

I’d rather dislike her because she is a repressive social engineer with an addiction to the throne and an unwavering willingness to lie to keep it.

And as this is a general debate, is there anyone that has any experience with any of the Sci Fi MMO’s out there? I’ve been eyeing Tabula Rasa with an appreciative eye, but I’m not quite swayed yet. It’s currently a toss up between that, Entropia and possibly Star Wars: Galaxies as an addition but I’m not quite sure. Anyone with any experience that can shed a light there?
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November 5, 2007 12:44pm
Brian (Shadowfoot)

This is the day we celebrate some guy’s failure to blow up a foreign parliament. Why? Why can’t we celebrate the numerous other failures in the world?
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November 5, 2007 1:00pm
Ruth

Pascal – maybe you should blog again? Got an email from an old US pal this morning…maybe a group blog? I’ve lost your email address.
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November 5, 2007 1:54pm
Pascal

Nah Ruth, it is tempting some days but there’s just too much angst in the blogging world for me. Is the US pal the Feisty one?
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November 5, 2007 2:20pm
Barnsley Bill

David C, which Nat supporters are decrying the thought of tax cuts?
Pascal, you wrote;
“Isn’t it about time we started judging politicians on their actions rather than their looks? Denigrating her for her looks is just so second form.”

Firstly I agree with you, it is second form to denigrate somebody on their looks. However it is fair game with Clarke who uses expressions such as FERAL to describe the people who hail from the birthplace of the labour movement in NZ, CORROSIVE and CANCEROUS to describe opponents and WRECKERS and HATERS to describe Maori.
Those comments from her and the fact that her appearance is clearly very important to her makes it all the more fun to poke the borax at her.
Who can forget the ludicrous air brushed image and now we have a PM who appears to have an industrial quantity of Botox pumped into her face.
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November 5, 2007 2:21pm
Ruth

Pascal, no, it’s the FTS guy, who has started up again. I don’t know if you knew him. I think a group situation probably dilutes the angsty stuff. I’m thinking about it – you should too 😉
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November 5, 2007 2:31pm
Pascal

No Ruth, the FTS guy does not ring any bells for me at the moment. It would be good to read something from you again, so if you do take him up on that offer post a link somewhere, please 🙂
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November 5, 2007 3:06pm
Doc

re. Fireworks… Let me see… The Labour party threatening to further restrict anything representing (or pertaining to) criticism of the government of the day?

Nope – nothing new to see here… Move on.
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November 5, 2007 3:43pm
insider

Pascal

is Tabula Rasa the one with the big muscles who is good with knives off Stargate Atlantis? I;ve been giving her an appreciative eye…
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November 5, 2007 4:08pm
david

Philu
You surprise me ….

fireworks? wtf …?

Stuff going up in smoke eh ..!

surely gunpwder is not a very “green” thing phil ..!

Think of the GHG’s ……. eh … !!!

Green stuff going up in smoke would be more in your line … eh ..!!

I would have thought …..!!!!

Or is blowing up 10 dollar notes the new protest .. eh …. ??

Or are you really .. y’know .. almost normal ..eh ..????

God its difficult trying to think in 3 word one liners!

I think I will have to lie down for a bit.
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November 5, 2007 4:11pm
insider

No Doc it is just the fun police in action again. I;m surprised Not PC hasn’t delivered a sermon on HC’s preference for collectivist fireworks displays over the exuberance of individuals’ right to express themselves privately…
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November 5, 2007 4:12pm
Tauhei Notts

VTO’s comments are interesting. The West Coast is Labour. End of story. But VTO’s comments seem incredible.
I would like to hear what they are writing in deepest darkest South Auckland. If that moves back to 60% Labour then, and only then, will I be convinced that this terrible regime is dogtucker.
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November 5, 2007 4:49pm
john

The witch wants to ban fireworks as they desturbed her .Is there a bonfire in which we can burn helen the witch, opps pollution.,i wouldnt like to be down wind , she (the witch)is a KILL JOY but on the way out , thank god
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November 5, 2007 4:54pm
john

Pascal, i love you comment on helens ugly looks and her real lack of policies.
At the next election,what could the image generaters, do for our pms(witch) hagged ugly looks, have you noticed the fuzzy bright soft look gets rid of her wart on her pledge card .Some women look like her when you are drop dead pissed, opps no those women look better.shes looking drawn, and bitter.
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November 5, 2007 5:20pm
Robinsod

What the fuck – a whole thread is about how ugly Helen Clark is? Hilarious (in a laugh at you kind of a way). Don’t you have anything better to do with your lives than sit around jacking each other off with this shit?? Fuck boys get a room, nah actually get a life.
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November 5, 2007 5:33pm
Pascal

I never thought I’d agree with Robinsod. Can somebody please come shoot me? Put me out of my misery.
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November 5, 2007 6:14pm
john

Robinsod I HAVE A LIFE ,WE HAVE OUR DOGS, they greet you when you come home , and they arnt a bunch of lying arse holes like helen (the witchy bitch )and her band of soft handed lefties,whimpy boover boys,LYING rubbish,CRAP
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November 5, 2007 6:14pm
john

PASCAL helen can supply a gun or let you,GO TO FIJI , they will put you out of your misery, a few kickes to the head ,you will be a new lefty
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November 5, 2007 6:17pm
neontiger

Hi D4J! Nice to see you back so fast!
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November 5, 2007 6:23pm
john

done my bit , have a great evening ,folks
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November 5, 2007 6:32pm
john

darn im back ,hes not me and im not him , SIGH, slow learners, AGAIN have a great evening , taking the dogs for a walk,
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November 5, 2007 6:34pm
dad4justice

Hi John isn’t it strange that they would think you are me ? Funny people these twisted Helen Clark supporters .
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November 5, 2007 6:42pm
neontiger

I see you both add spaces between your punctuation marks. Not many people do that.
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November 5, 2007 6:46pm
krazykiwi

Govt surplus 48.9 pc above forecast

What a bunch of muppets. We pay them so the government can tell them what to predict.
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November 5, 2007 7:09pm
vto

Tauhei Notts – it may seem incredible but believe me its real.
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November 5, 2007 7:52pm
Pascal

neontiger: I see you both add spaces between your punctuation marks. Not many people do that.

Yeah, that is one of the clearest D4J give-aways. However, the moderators have not said anything about it and it’s not against the policy as far as we know and everyone knows that John = D4J so no harm, no foul at the end of the day?
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November 5, 2007 8:02pm
hinamanu

“She and they are hated, in their own heartland.”

Do you think it’s possible that some time in the near future a picture of John Key will be hanging where Dear leaders bucked tooth image was so desecrated in the red heart land.

If Mickey savage was to walk into the house today would he mistakenly head for the Nat seats to their howls of ‘tory’ derision at the shocked and dismayed ‘red’ faces.

Would be a beautiful picture and a good idea for a Sunday night Montana theatre.

bring on the parody someone in TV land!!!!!!
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November 5, 2007 8:15pm
hinamanu

“darn im back ,hes not me and im not him”

D4J answered as John,, lol

How can you resist baiting.

Keep your mutts away from minors d4j,, you know we know.
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November 5, 2007 8:19pm
hinamanu

I actually thought Guy Fawkes was banned after last year.

where did that idea come form,, I’m not the only one who thought so.

Tomorrow nights headline news will be all the disasters and and cats wif sky rockets up their ass. I would sign a petition against Guy Fawkes on that issue alone.

btw,,

Did any one read about that school girl who was sprayed with acid from a school bus today or yesterday ??
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November 5, 2007 8:25pm
john

lets burn the barren witch,NOW that would be fun wouldnt, hinamanu?
opps theres a gap there , ,thats for the crap from ms davis to fall into J, and d4j , it keeps the leftests tossiors amused,
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November 5, 2007 8:46pm
dad4justice

Good one John as I was writing a comment on that rort bill from Auntie Hell

Hey Hina ” Keep your mutts away from minors d4j,, you know we know.”

If you said that to my face – you would need a hospital very quickly !!
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November 5, 2007 8:57pm
hinamanu

Well John/D4J,,

I do think we are burning the wrong effigy now.

She is actually completing the original traitors work.

We are so close to tyranny in this country we must stiffle our shudders
and see the naked communism for what it is.

If the plebs swallow the tax cuts NZ is over.
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November 5, 2007 8:57pm
hinamanu

lol,,

just continue writing to yourself.

we need the entertainment.

I love this blog.
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November 5, 2007 8:59pm
Redbaiter

“Don’t you have anything better to do with your lives than sit around jacking each other off with this shit?? Fuck boys get a room, nah actually get a life.”

Meahwhile, over at your pathetic bitter and nasty little blog, all one can observe is the most infantile and obsessive hate driven crap about Mr. Farrar or D4J. You rank hypocrite.
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November 5, 2007 10:47pm
neontiger

Your acting as though they don’t deserve it.
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November 5, 2007 10:59pm
Robyn E. Kenealy

Attention: Right-leaning people,

Some of you may remember me from other general debates. I am writing today because I’ve been away from kiwiblog for a little while, and I decided to catch up by reading some older posts. I read this – I think it was oct 5th but I’m not sure – anyway, the jist was this: DPF wrote that there were groups of people who didn’t seem to believe in an earnestly held right wing view, and who assumed that such a view must be supported by ignorance. I gave this writing some consideration, and found that, in my case, it is true. I am a pretty left wing person – I often describe myself as having a chewy communist centre – and when I think about politics, I tend to think that people only favour right leaning parties because they are not as thoughtful or well educated as me.
Well! There’s a big problem with that opinion, obviously. Leaving aside any questions of the right solution for NZ politics, it is simply not a nice attitude to bring to a debate, and, naturally, I am unlikely to learn anything from right-wingers or right wing politics if I assume there is nothing you can teach me. So I am trying this approach – here are some questions and thoughts I have about right wing thought, or right leaning politics and I hope you will be able to answer some or all of them.
(I promise there is no sting in this – I’m just interested.)

1: Do you believe that everyone has equal opportunities for success and advancement under capitalism?
2: Do you believe that competition is a true indication of human nature?
3: Do you believe that people are more likely to commit crimes without a strong deterrent, such as tough prison terms?
4: Do you think the general right wing pattern, such as illustrated by Sarko in France, has a Christian basis, in the sense that it is predicated on some sense of eventual judgement for one’s hard work? And if so, would you consider this a protestant influence?
5: Do you think there are places where people can interact without an imbalance of power, and if so, where?
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November 6, 2007 9:59am
Robyn E. Kenealy

I might try posting this in another general debate if I get no response (this one, I notice, is yesterday’s.)
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November 6, 2007 10:00am
flashgordonnz

1 – no: success and advancement come from education, skill, talent and/or risk taking. Under communism it doesn’t come at all…
2 – all animals compete, civilised societies try to strike a good balance, and competition can be set aside in order to create collectively what individuals can’t. Communists seem to think choice is wasteful, so ban all competition. This is known by intelligent folk as “throwing baby out with bath water”
3 – Some people will commit crime because they can’t help themselves, just look at that poor labour MP who punched a fellow MP, and that Labour activist who took to a unionist with his own megaphone. Yet the communists continue to talk about policies that ignore actual human traits, traits such as the desire (considered legitimate by normal folk) to better ones self.
4 – Sarko is not the general right-wing pattern: he seems to approve of transferring power to the un-elected EU.
Because communism is a belief with no founding in rational scientific empirical thought, it is probably difficult to believe it at the same time as believing in a God who judges you on thought, action and inaction. Even lies for the greater good are frowned upon. But I shouldn’t speak for christians…or communists…
5 – Other than the internet (until the communists grab control of this) probably not, which is why this communist government is attempting to fix the rules so that they can spend not only their own money, but the money of the taxpayer on staying in power. After all, power is all they are about, all pretence of being for the worker is dissolving as they give tax-cuts to companies but only now, under pressure, to the workers whose taxes subsidise the lifestyle of the MPs and the beneficiary classes.
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November 6, 2007 9:39pm

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