Kiwiblog – where even “terrorists” debate the issues!
November 18th, 2007 at 9:34 am by David FarrarI was amused to get a call on Friday from the Herald on Sunday informing me that one of the Urewera 17, Te Rangikaiwhiria Kemara, had previously posted on my blog in relation to how sovereignity changes never come about via talk but “at the edge of a sword, bayonet or bombs”. They just wanted me to confirm the posts were genuine, not from a fake e-mail address.
Of course my first reaction was “Cool – even the terrorists comes to Kiwiblog to debate the issues” 
In case it isn’t obvious, please note I am using the term “terrorists” for humour effect. I am not suggesting guilt, innocence or even involvement in any particular alleged crime.
The Herald on Sunday article is here.
Trevor Loudon at New Zeal also has some other online writings from Te Rangikaiwhiria Kemara.
The Herald on Sunday also has a story on a visit to Iran by Tame Iti.
Also the HoS supports the publication of the alleged evidence:
He has declined to authorise prosecution under the Suppression of Terrorism Act, but we are not to be trusted with the information that prompted police to launch the most pre-emptive strike they have ever undertaken against civilians in this country.
To describe that as “regrettable” is a very mild choice of words indeed. To anyone familiar with the history of totalitarian regimes, the idea is at least as disturbing as the evidence that has been leaked. Many New Zealanders will be profoundly uneasy about a situation in which the state can move against citizens under terrorism laws, darkly allege non-specified deeds and then, when asked to show its cards, fold its hand and walk away from the table.
And Deborah Coddington writes that the evidence is terrifying:
So now we know. Little surprise Solicitor-General David Collins said the evidence collected by police during the anti-terrorism raids was “very disturbing”.
Until now, allegations by lawyers and supporters of those arrested that the police action was illegal, brutal, racist and violent have been largely unchallenged (with notable, and surprising exceptions such as Chris Trotter). When Moana Jackson said police spread-eagled a mother on the ground and locked her screaming children in the shed for six hours without water, National Radio unquestioningly reported it.
Contempt of court or not, at least publication of the evidence gives us hard evidence, and it is terrifying.
I doubt any of the 180 or so people who purchased a half-page advertisement calling for the repeal of the anti-terrorism legislation, will buy equal space acknowledging they were wrong to state “it’s not terrorism, it is democratic dissent”.
I still have many unanswered questions. The things said were all very bad, but we don’t know who exactly said what, and to whom. We don’t know how many firearms were actually picked up in the raids (I’ve seen numbers from four to 14), and we’ve yet to get real clarity on how often weapons were used in the Ureweras, and by whom.
Related posts:
- No prosecutions under the Terrorism Suppression Act
- Working around kiwiblog technical issues
- Greens compare US to terrorists
- My link to the terror plot
November 18th, 2007 at 10:04 am
I’m amazed that the outcry from the alleged terrorists and supporters is focused on some imagined breach of their civil rights and their democratic freedoms. From everything I have read about the objectives of the group, their goal was to attack freedom. From everything I have read, they have nothing but contempt for democracy. They would care not one jot for the civil rights of any other New Zealander, especially if by some misfortune they were suddenly granted the power they lust for.
More amazing is that so many of the media (National radio for example) seem to have promoted the terrorists’ views without a thought to the duplicity of their position. Have any of these so called journalists and reporters dared to ask these power obsessed thugs to explain the contradiction. For example, if Tame Iti cares so much for freedom and democracy, what the damn hell is he seeking in Iran???
Trevor Loudon has these charlatans sussed. The mainstream media though is determined to shield us from the information Trevor provides on the background and connection to all of these so called freedom fighters. The media shies away from the truth that they’re just another bunch of leftist totalitarians, with a fake cause aimed in reality at bringing them unchallengeable power, imposing their stinking extreme left political views by force, and attacking everyone else’s right to freedom.
They’re fakes and cowards, liars and charlatans, using freedom to destroy freedom… and so are their media cronies.
Vote:November 18th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
Four or fourteen, the old man’s arsenal was bigger than Tame’s arsenal.
Vote:November 18th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
The Urewera 17 are freedom fighters
They fight against freedom
Vote:November 18th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Notice how the paper is happy to risk having
it’s editor jailed for contempt of court over this
issue.
But they were very shy in naming the ex-cop
rapists before they went on trial for another rape.
Want the paper to run storys on people who
Vote:are innocent until proven guilty David, no
problem, but run them all before the trial.
November 18th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
I know no more about these events than anyone else but I have read a thoughtful item on Stephen Franks Blog to the effect that if the law on sedition had not be rescinded it would not have been necessary to proceed under the Terrorism Act.
Vote:November 18th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
I believe that we have a very competant Police Force, quite competant of maintaining survelience on terrorist minded folk and nipping their activities in the bud JUST before the event. The operative word to me is JUST and not while these folk are playing around like sully b…… and after I had read what the DomPost had put on their website .. three stories .. my reaction was that the selected comments were those of people of limited intelligence capping each other in rather silly conversations.
When I first heard the media screaming about terrorists I didn’t believe it and I still don’t. I am disturbed that Tame Iti if I have the right person wasn’t charged after he fired the shotgun into the flag. A quiet word by the maori advisor members of the Police most likely could have sorted out the silly business without the egg-mess that is flying around. John Sharples made that point on TV3 and I think it is very valid point to what should have happened instead of what did happen.
I fear the red-necks are out in force, infected with what I call the ‘American sickness’ which arose out of 9/11 and a ‘leader’ who took the easy way out of declaring a war on terror instead of trying to remedy the causes of international discent which led to 9/11 and similar events.
Vote:November 18th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
Please read capable instead of the second competant in above.
Vote:November 18th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
I remember that Tama thread. Very strange. Worth a read.
Vote: