Santa and Falun Gong
November 23rd, 2007 at 10:48 am by David FarrarThere was a post yesterday on the Auckland City Vision blog, that I actually agreed with. That’s noteworthy enough to blog!
They are calling on the Auckland Santa Parade organisers to allow the Falun Gong “Divine Land Marching Band” to take part.
I totally agree. I think it is disgraceful that we self censor ourselves to keep the PRC happy.
Now I wondered what the views of the C&R Councillors would be, especially as one of their own (Michael Barnett) is the Parade Chairman.
I was pleased to find that Aaron Bhatnagar had actually beaten City Vision to it, by blogging on Tuesday that he disagreed with his colleague, and explaining why.
In fact I have to give big kudos to Aaron for keeping the blog going, as a Councillor. It’s a great way to be accountable, and also to educate people on the issues. With the election itself over, it’s a great insight into the issues facing the Council – such as this post on what it means to keep rates increases down to inflation.
Also I did have a chuckle at his post showing off the billboards that the John Banks campaign thought up, but didn’t use.
Related posts:
- Diversity and the Auckland City Council
- City Vision and Tamil Tigers
- Congrats Aaron
- Even the Santa parade is hit by the safety police
November 23rd, 2007 at 11:18 am
New Zealand: The land of free speech unless you are critisizing the Socialists or the Communists.
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 11:30 am
Hmmm… I suppose if Falun Gong members wished to say: “Vote for a party that supports Human Rights in China” then from 1 January next year, they will be required to provide their full names and addresses.
Nice for the Chinese operatives here who take careful note of such things.
Also handy when our Police need to get in touch eight years down the track to apologise for heavy-handed behaviour.
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 11:33 am
Isn’t the issue though that Auckland (like Wellington) want to keep these parades apolitical? My impression was that they’re not prevented from taking part because they’re Falun Gong, but because they’re a political group. I may be wrong.
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 11:36 am
The whole phenomenum of Santa Claus has been a steadily evolved idea to encourage inclusiveness and diversity.
The original Santa (Nikolai) was born in Turkey (I’ve been to his birthplace) a placed of decaayed former glory, but hellish hot, and incredible surf. Nik himself was a local serf-master who relented one year in the spirit of Chritian charity, and gave food to the needy.
Far from the vision of Santa we cherish. That is because the image of Santa CLaus is taken from the Viking religion, Odin used to have four persona. In Winter, he became a character called ‘Yuleficca’ and went around on his sled towed by reindeer and visited each childs house with a gift.
The early church took the two ideas and cross-fertilized them to create ‘Santa Claus’ as we know him. It encouraged the integration of the pagan into the christian, and coincided with the Roman practice of ‘Saturnalia’ which involved merriment and gift-giving. SOme believe the conspicuous consumption of mid-winter was caused by little more than the desire to eat stuff before it went rotten, but that’s another story.
The Victorian persona of Santa happened also to coincide with the birth of the modern postal system in the UK, which meant that children could now be encouraged to improve their literacy by writing letters to Santa, and expect them to be delivered. Also Santa looked good on that other new invention – the Christmas Card.
So, Falun Gong bring it on. Ho ho ho!
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 11:38 am
Its worth noting the impact of the EFB on Falun Gong. Many of them are persecuted in Mainland China and have legitmate reasons to campaign anonymously during election year with regards to NZ’s policy on China. As they have good reason to fear what might happen to friends and family back on the mainland.
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 11:48 am
So do we expect amendments to the EFB to treat the Fallong Gong and the Dalai Lama the same way as it’s apparently valid to treat the EB ?
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Falun Gong are not a political group. The only thing that makes them political is that the Communist Party in China has banned them.
I was hitherto unaware that Citizens and Ratepayers was a CPC affiliate ;o)
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 12:34 pm
Great point burt.
The Fulan Gong aren’t a political group but a religion
When that religion suffered dreadful persecution from the PRC for exercising the freedom of speech they sought to alert the world as to what was happening, and the tentacles of Chinese Communisim follow them everywhere seeking to silence them by branding them as political extremists.
Strangely familiar?
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Julian – the members of the Glenfield Community Board took part in the recent Glenfield Santa Parade on the North Shore. Surely they’re a political group!
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Michael Barnett is the organiser of the Santa Parade by virtue of him being in charge of the Auckland Chamber of Commerce. He’s not a city councillor either – he’s a regional councillor.
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 12:56 pm
Correct Gooner.
Every group in the world -is in a sense- is political by definition.
Hone Harawira made the point in the EFB second reading debate yesterday, that everything that is said on the Marae is political.
The tendency to deny basic rights to the Fulan Gong is moral cowardice in the face of threatening overtures from the PRC.
I have no idea what the Fulan Gong believe, but I’m not afraid to let them articulate it.
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 1:10 pm
Falun Gong is a shame for every Chinese.
The leader for Falun Gong was a peasant serving the miliary band playing trumpet. Who then stole concepts from various religions and prophecies and made up his own Falun Dafa. He’s pretty much the same kind of person as Naiyin Xue who “created” the “Inner Strength Kungfu”. The only difference is that Li was a lot smarter and exploited other uneducated Chinese low-mid class citizens to buy his books, his notes, various misc stuaff that has been “enchanted” by him, and accumulated tens of millions of dollars. It’s still unclear how he turned the believers to mass protest the government, when things got out of hand, Li and his daughter went to the states and living a luxious life with tens of thousdans of diehard followers still feeding him money and assets.
There are several other guys who like Li, “created” their own version “gong”. no one else was as successful as Li in terms of accumulating money from followers.
Falun Gong was such a joke that when Li started it, he used “light-year” as a measurement of TIME. he described a hell that exists some 50 million km below the ground. he described a world full of Gods from every religion on earth and himself as a god chosen messenger to save the world. he even predicted year 2000 is the end of human civilization and disasters will occur if people don’t follow him.
On one hand, yes there are people who believed in Falun Gong in China got locked up, beaten up, and deaths occur. That is China and things happens. It’s not particular to Falun followers, an university student without id card in Shenzhen was send to prison and beaten (by the prisoners) to death – oh wait, didn’t we have a kid in the same prisoner van got beaten up couple months ago? Jeanne Arc got burnt to death.
nvm.
“Chinese spiritual group”? no they are not. It is a cult. The followers are uneducated, low-middle class who desperately believed in something supernatural that could save them from after life hell. They are deaf, blind and unable to think on their own. They are tools. The last thing you want to associate them with, is the Santa parade.
And MikeE, Falun Gong is no longer a big deal in mainland China, after so many “prophecies” failed miserably. But the movement seems getting stronger in some overseas countries. Why? you might be intersted in who’s funding them.
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Longbow.
Why on earth is the Chinese government so afraid of them then?
If there ideas are crazy (and they probably are) why not let them express them, this is a democracy old chap not a police state.
A person confident of their own beliefs is not afraid to discuss the beliefs of others!
And Longbow if you have some startling revelation as to who is funding them, let us know!
And keep coming here Longbow, you are the first apologist for the PRC thats posted here for some time, you’ll add a new dimension to the debate!
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 1:31 pm
Longbow the commie is on to it. Falun Gong are obviously funded by the Exclusive Brethren and so will be silenced on the 1st of January by the Peoples Democratic Banana Republic of Helengrad
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Longbow – so laugh at their ideas.
Like Scientologists, EB’s, Mormons, communists etc. New religions tend to look absurd – it is only familiarity and heritage that give them apparent respectability. However I respect their right to hold silly ideas, so long as they don’t seek to proseltyse or impose them on others.
There is no harm in them being part of the Santa Parade.
I saw them go by in Wellington’s Santa Parade, and they were not inappropriate. No banners decrying the Chinese govt, just a well-drilled band (marching very instep!), and a few people dressed in cultural-looking attire meditating (well looking like they were – very hard to verify really).
The food-nazies may have found Ronald McDonald on roller-skates more offensive. Tamils may have found the Sri Lanka cultural group representative of oppression. And of course, bagpipes are evil.
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 2:40 pm
I have no idea why the Chinese government is so afraid of them.
when I met first Falun follower back in 1995/1996, they seemed harmless. they don’t take medicines when they have illness that’s about the only difference from normal people. they argue about the concepts of Falun although they can’t provide any concrete evidence.
things turned around few years later when tens of thousands of Falun followers gathered outside the Zhongnanhai, where the communinist party leaders live/meet. That’s probably the start.
The communist party apparently is afraid of the mass gathering of people who held a different belief. Who although at the time didn’t post any direct threat, but if you recall Tiananmen square incident in 1989, you’ll know what might follow afterwards.
I left China around that time. I have friends who believed in Falun gong and I never argue with him (as I tried before you can’t convince them that light-year is not a measurement of time, or argue with anything else they were told by master Li).
If, if I was in charge of the communisty party, i would rather have an open debate. but I’m not. It’s a developing country where constitution says the communist party is the leader there isn’t really much one could do. I was hoping the new leaders would be more open minded than the previous Jiang, but we had even worse blog/bbs control before/during last annual communist party meeting couple month ago.
I would rather not to say this – but think how master Li got US greencard so easily. It might sound like a fiction, but it could very well be a secret agenda from some NSA offices. The key figures in Tiananman square all have tight relations with US ambassy staff in Beijing at the time as well, and that’s why how some key figures get to US after 4 June. I was also told the ppl who “demonstrate” in front of Chinese consulate in Auckland every morning was “paid” – again i don’t have concrete evidence to support this but thoses guy never look into my eyes, that might say something.
China has a long history of various religion belief and most got wiped out by the constant war and natural disasters in early/mid 20 centuries. Li made a new “religion” at the right time and no wonders many ppl would fall for it.
do you know what “falun” means? Fa Lun means “magical wheels”. Li said everyone has a “magical wheel” turning inside your tummy. if it turns clockwise, good things happens, if it turns anti-clockwise, bad things happens. Or it could be the other way around.
we had several person in China who cut tummy open trying to find out the wheel.
the bottom line is, Falun gong itself is a joke. it’s a modern cult created by borrowing stories, figures, prophecies, even gods, from different religion. Master Li has been polishing his stories ever since. like he no longer refers “light year” as a measurement of time, and after year 2000 arrived he said he “solved” the disasters and some ppl still believe. sigh.
More so, Falun gong has it’s political purpose, be it personal, or funded by uncle sam, Li hates the communist party and want to stir the mud – even if I have my own stuff against the communist party, i would never stand inline with Falun followers.
I’m all for free speech. it feels especially precious came from a country where in effect you don’t have free speech. but Falun gong, meh. at least leave it ouf of Sanda parade.
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Longbow said: ” “Chinese spiritual group”? no they are not. It is a cult. The followers are uneducated, low-middle class who desperately believed in something supernatural that could save them from after life hell. ”
Could apply to any spiritual/religous group at various times throughout history.
I think an awful lot of people would agree with the sentiment to allow spiritual groups to go on parade (not just the Greens, who seem to be the one political group to bring this sort of thing up i.e. protesting at Chinese government official visits), but the same sentiment is very rarely expressed by any actual leaders anywhere in the interest of trade ties, and would be interesting to know how many in Labour/National or free speech/free trade ACT would be willing to compromise on this when they know whats supposedly at stake.
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 3:01 pm
oh well pkiwi, maybe u r right. it’s like “i may not agree with what you sayd, i will die to protect your right to say it”
it’s just the fact that few westerners know what Falun gong really is, that worries me. most ppl on the media tend to believe they are harmless, they promote “truth, kindness, tolerance”, but in fact they held a distorted view of this world (human evolved from plant), against homosexual (master Li said homo is dirty n eveil and God will wipe them with other “criminals” out one day), against mixed race (master Li said mixed race is ALIEN’s evil plan to prevent human to get to heaven). its members have now greatly reduced in the US even after he polished his views on homo and cross race marriage.
he is a joke among most educated Chinese nowadays and it’s a shame to see him or his followers continue to paint themselves as naive victims in some overseas countries.
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 3:12 pm
Fair point Gooner. I suppose if you’re going to force a Christmas parade to be non-political and non-religious then Father Christmas will be watching it on TV too!
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 3:16 pm
Well Father Christmas does sell Coca-Cola these days…
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 3:48 pm
And beloved of liberals and Richard Gere, the Dalai Lama has some prettty weird ideas about acceptable sexual practice, and is against homosexuality.
longbow, take your point the Falun religion/cult (still think that is a difference only in time) may be benefitting from their ‘victimhood’ as I think you are implying.
Thanks for providing some info on them – exposing belief enables ridicule – (goes for communist party too).
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 3:49 pm
Father Christmas in current form was thought up by Coca Cola – hence the colourings worn by dear Santa.
I don’t have that much time for Falun Dafa but they did not harm in Wellington’s parade (exept to the Chinese Ambassador’s annual bonus). I say let them parade in Auckland so that this silly issue can stop taking up newstime which could more valuably be spent probing the latest Labour Party scandal.
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Falun Gong sounds very like a lot of the crackpot modern-day new age spiritisms that are so fashionable among the trendy anti-christian left today, especially Gaia worship and indeed the whole Green religion. But none of these others are having their freedom of speech abridged in NZ at the request of a foreign power, and nor does any other foreign power but the PRC actually succeed in getting our authorities to thus act.
Imagine the uproar if any authority in NZ issued a ban on anti-American protesting at the request of the Bush Administration. Is this country SCREWED UP or WHAT?
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 5:12 pm
dorkland the home of communist china
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 5:13 pm
dorkland the home of shallow posters
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Falun Dafa were allowed to join the Wellington Parade at the last minute as long as they did not do anything political. And they kept to their end of the bargain.
The Karori Anglican Church had a float with kids/angels and a nativity scene. (You should have seen the original plan for that float that the organisers disallowed.)
And the Sallies normally have a band, but they are in Japan at the moment on tour.
If any one religion is not permitted to join the parade, then no religious group should.
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Auckland City of Free Speech until Banksie finds a way to Rate it and Cullen figures out how to Tax it.
Vote:November 23rd, 2007 at 9:40 pm
“I have no idea why the Chinese government is so afraid of them.”
The point is, communists hate freedom of expression.
Vote:we are now finding this reality here.
November 24th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
longbow, good on you ! I am soo glad that for the first time someone has blogged to tell the truth about FG (I cant even bear to type their name).
I felt growing alarm at how many NZders blindly support this group without even understanding what they really are about. Give this group a millimeter and they will force your arm for a metre. Do not underestimate the level of determination in this group that is passive on the surface (brainwashed?).
I am 100% ethnic chinese, although I was not raised in China and not a chinese citizen nor a communist supporter. But my family has strong chinese traditions and I understand chinese culture and mentality. And yes, I am embarrassed that FG are associated with Chinese and taints China.
Santa Parade was originally Christmas Parade which in essence is to celebrate the birth of Jesus. I am sad that the western culture is sabotaging their own festivity to embrace a cult group of unknown quantity/quality on the basis of what they market themselves as promoting “truth, kindness, tolerance”. I suppose if Osama’s Taleban men sought refugee status in NZ and permission to have a float for the Santa Parade to parade their brand of Islam as “peace loving, tolerant and kind” would you support them ?
Vote:I am amazed at the silly pcness and naivette in this country, as well as the absurd level of self-sabotage and discrimination against your own heritage religion of christianity.
November 24th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Philbest, I agree with you. This country is really screwed up…probably a result of too much cannabis and P consumption.
Vote:I betcha at the rate Santa Parade is going, you might as well call it Alternative New Age Religion Parade.
Funny how I often hear Kiwis tell me that new migrants should embrace Kiwi way of life & culture. When I first immigrated here umpteen years ago, I thought most Pakehas would go to church since it is seen by asians as a white man’s religion, but instead I find them in the yoga classes, tai-chi sessions, accupuncture rooms, buddhist meditations, Hindu transcedental meditation, and what have yous….Where I came from…Asia…christianity is a booming religion fast becoming popular with the young.
I guess the world is realy screwed up.
November 24th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
Fuck protests against China, what have Falun Gong got to do with Christmas? Anyone?!
Vote:November 26th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Well if there had to be a christian association for someone to participate, then we’d have an awfully short parade.
Vote:November 30th, 2007 at 7:53 am
What about the swastika in the parade? This doesn’t bother anyone?
Vote:The swastika is harmless for Asians, but it has such a painful significance for the whites.
Or, is this too non-PC to be talked about?
December 3rd, 2008 at 2:06 am
The swastika is an ancient symbol of good fortune embraced through the ages by cultures around the world. Swastikas have adorned Buddha statues for many centuries, long before the symbol was misappropriated and tragically associated with the horrors of the Holocaust.
Just in resonse to Longbow, Falun Dafa does’nt say that humans evolved from plants, and cutting their stomachs open, that is just one of the outrageous lies spread by the State controlled media in China. Another lie is the so-called Self-immolation on Tianamen square when Falun Gong practitioners apparently set themselves on fire, but in reality it was set-up by Jiang Zemin and the CCP to incite hatred towards Falun Gong practitioners, just go to http://www.Falsefire.com, it was obviously a total set-up.
It worth noting that the CCP faked alot of writings and attributed them to Master Li, and altered the recordings of his lectures around China, so as to warrant the label of an Evil Cult, heretical organisation, etc. to justify their persecution.
Actually alot of Falun Gong Practitioners are actually highly educated and hold masters degrees. I can submit alot of concrete evidence as it the benefits of Falun Gong on peoples health and wellbeing. Master Li doesn’t live in luxury in New York, thats just another lie spread by CCP. His books were sold for a little more than the cost of printing them, they are now offered for free on the internet. A lie is just a lie.
research for “falun gong” on google image:
Vote:http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=falun+gong&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2
and now the chinese version:
http://images.google.cn/images?svnum=10&hl=zh-CN&lr=&cr=countryCN&q=falun+gong&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2
why is censored??? where is the freedom of information?