Youth Organised and United
A youth lobby group has been set up. I’m always a big advocate of young people getting involved in politics, regardless of what side they are on.
Youth Organised and United’ is a new political lobby group; aimed at getting young people’s voices heard by society’s decision-makers.
A group of representatives will visit Wellington on the 5th and 6th of December to meet with parliamentarians responsible for youth portfolios, ministers with a youth overview and representatives of other youth organisations.
We want to empower young people to get their voices heard. To do this, we see it as imperative that young people are, in equal measure, united and organized.
YOU is a national organization with youth active in every region listening to the views and opinions of a wide spectrum of youth. These views can then be discussed nationally and action can be taken.
They have a blog also.
November 29th, 2007 at 11:26 am
Leading light in the group is one James Sleep, occasional (and incomprehensible) Kiwiblog commenter. Nice to see that he has finally got his capitals under control.
Not sure how non-partisan the group will be, I strongly suspect they could become just an unbranded echo chamber for Young Labour. Could be handy in an election year.
This quote from their press release is slightly puzzling:
“Accordingly, it is our belief that currently young people are a disenfranchised minority. We believe this can change. As such we task ourselves with the responsibility to bring about this change.”
Time to pick up the dictionary, James. Young people are unenfranchised until they turn 18. Then they are enfranchised. Noone is going around taking the vote away from them, as far as I am aware. This is the meaning of ‘disenfranchised’.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Firstly James Sleep may be a member of Youth Organised and United, and a pivotal member at that, but he does not lead it – nor does any one person – it is a democratic group – and a nonparisan group. The core team currently has party faithful from most of the main parties: National, Labour, NZ First, and the Greens – I’m not sure how much more non-partisan you can get.
Secondly James didnt write the press release – this strange vendetta you have against him is blinding you – youth are a disenfranchised group, they dont have the right to vote – not that it has been taken from them but that they have never had it – much like woman before universal sufferage – in this regard your logic is greatly flawed.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
mrpresident – at what age do you think the right to vote should kick in? I presume you agree that there is an age limit – that, for example, 5 year olds shouldn’t vote? Are you advocating 17, 16, 15, 14? Do you also advocate lowering the age for drinking – presumably somebody who can make decisions on elected government can make decisions on their own body?
November 29th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Would have been interesting if they had had anything to say about Bradford’s bill (or was it just an idea?) to give the vote to 16 year olds! I remember that ‘taxation without representation’ was an issue for the americans a few hundred years ago, might it become an issue for these guys somewhere down the line??
November 29th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
PS: There isn’t a vendetta, strange or otherwise, against James Sleep. He turns up, he posts crap, people call him on it, and he goes away in a huff. Having said that, he is often more reasonable and more coherent than some other people on this blog, and as such probably an example of someone who I would be comfortable having the vote. The problem is that he doesn’t really represent the average youth – there are plenty that I don’t think are ready to have the vote.
Should we revive the concept of a citizenship exam? In order to get the vote you need to sit a test – if you can demonstrate the right skills at 15, then you can vote. If you can’t demonstrate those skills till you are 23, then you can vote then. To do anything else seems arbitrary, and to be lumping individuals together into groups and treating them the same. I know it sounds awfully officious, but I can’t see any other fair way to go about things.
I’m not sure what the questions would be – but I would weight it towards some evidence of logic skills, personal responsibility, and ability to weigh up information presented and form a judgment. Basically, evidence that you are capable of having an opinion.
There is a bit of a problem in that some people might never pass the test – would that be OK?
November 29th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
Personally I think the voting age is fine where it is – I was not arguing that – I was defending the use of the word ‘disenfranchised’ in regards to youth – they are a disenfranchised group – they don’t have the vote so therefore they fit into that category, I don’t see this changing in the near future nor do I see a need for it to – but voting isn’t the only issue, currently youth views and opinions are not sought by those in power – this makes them both disenfranchised and disregarded – as for the drinking age – reducing it is not an option and at this stage I think it would be silly to think that raising it would actually change anything.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
mrpresident
I’m delighted to hear from you that a wide range of political views are represented in the new organisation. However, when the key person pushing to establish the group is a vocal Labour supporter, I am sceptical as to whether alternative views will get an airing. I will be delighted if the group takes a non-partisan stance on issues involving youth.
You appear to have misread my comment on the franchise. An early post on the YOU blog uses the Ministry of Youth Development definition of ‘youth’, which is anyone under 25 years old. Anyone between the ages of 18 and 25 has the ability to vote, and therefore is NOT disenfranchised. People under 18 are UNenfranchised, as they have never has the vote. I think this is a more accurate description than ‘disenfranchised’, but this is a trivial point.
I do not have a vendetta against James Sleep. I disagree strongly with his political views, and think many of the comments he makes are unintentionally funny. But he is perfectly at liberty to express his views as he sees fit, just as I am at liberty to mock them.
While my expectations are low, the new group has my best wishes. I should have made that point in my original post.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
We definitly should NOT lower the voting age, seeing our whole education system is dumbing kids down so that at 18 they’re now about as switched on as a 13-year-old a few decades ago (if that).
November 29th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
You are right when you say we should not be arguing over trivia – however I do agree that unenfranchised is maybe a better way to put it.
Apart from MYD I dont think anyone would regard a 24 year old as a youth – and this is reflected in the fact that MYD does nothing for over-18’s and only a little more for under-18’s.
bobux – Where did you get the idea that he is the key person pushing to establish the group?
November 29th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
I’ve long been an advocate of young people concentrating on getting their own lives in order, being successful in their own right, and opposed them trying to run other people’s lives. Most who want to get involved with politics want to use the state to compel or ban things, like the Greens – who are like adolescents trying to make the world a better place – with the emphasis on making people do it.
That’s why young people should only get involved in politics if they DON’T want power and don’t want to boss people around, all those that do should drink a lot of alcohol and get laid – then they aren’t dreaming up ways to spend other people’s money and regulate other people’s bodies and property.
To say it’s good for young people to be more involved in politics PER SE, is valueless. The Cultural Revolution in China had almost all young people involved in politics, and blood was spilt daily by their hands.
While apathy is rarely a good thing, I’d rather 1000 apathetic young people getting on with their own lives, than 1000 Green Party activists actively trying to mess with other peoples’.
November 29th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
Interesting comments.
well, I am not leading the establishment of this, in fact nobody is.
I have been the person in this organisation pushing for YOU to be bi-partisen. Of course that is the most logical way to run a youth organisation like this.
I have encouraged relationship building between National MPs and YOU. I will continue to encourage that.
Anyhow, It’s great to have people debating issues surrounding youth, especially the topic of the voting age.
James Sleep
November 29th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
“Accordingly, it is our belief that currently young people are a disenfranchised minority. We believe this can change. As such we task ourselves with the responsibility to bring about this change.”
all of a sudden youth are being recognised as political assets.
just as conveniently as tax cuts have suddenly gained favour overnight within govt caucus.
Labour are despearate.
They need a Labour Judend. The next step will be uniforms.
With that will come an oath of allegiance and a blood swearing ceremony.
1st things 1st. Get the EFB ticked off and done.
Then maybe a change of name to go with the change of national name,,
National Aotearoa Socialist Independents
The NASI party
Seig!
Heil Helen!
November 29th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
MR PRESIDENT…….It seems to me that if your group is serious the first issue that your group should urgently consider is the Electoral Finance Act and its implications for democracy and on your groups ability to take a position on any political matter in six weeks time.
November 29th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
Did the provision in the EFB about organisations with members who were under 16 (or was it 18?) get removed?
November 29th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
“all of a sudden youth are being recognised as political assets.”
- ‘All of a sudden’??? WHAT??
November 30th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Heh, interesting.
The EFB – YOU will not be used for political bait by the right.
Anyway, enjoy.
Bobux – Zach Castles – whoever you are, feel free to get more involved with YOU. You seem to know a lot about us!?!?
Toodles
J
November 30th, 2007 at 4:43 pm
James Sleep,,
can you confirm the rumours D4J personally threatened your safety.
That as a minor you were verbally threatened by this adult and even told he knew the whereabouts of your address.
If not, can you plse put these accusations to rest.
November 30th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
OT – hinamanu i’ve noticed a fair bit of goading of d4j on your part. granted that he takes the bait, gets all lathered up and gnashes in your direction… but is it really worth it?
November 30th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
Hinamanu:
I think the thread you’re after is:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/04/no_smacking_compromise.html
I can barely believe the shit that went down. Kiwiblog seems much better today by comparison.
And I wouldn’t recommend winding-up D4J:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/04/batman_and_robin.html
November 30th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
I find your last post very disingenuous POC.
Firstly you provide ready access to material with which to wind D4J up….
“I think the thread you’re after is:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/04/no_smacking_compromise.html”
Then you advise people to not wind him up.
It’s like you dying to witness a Jerry Springer style shit-fight so you supply the weapons – then you back off and tell people to not use them – what a slimy little toad you truly are.
November 30th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Oh piss off Phillip John.
Still bruised from your last beating, I see? That would explain your desperation.
Hinamanu was asking a genuine question and I obliged.
November 30th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
“Oh piss off Phillip John.”
Judging by the anger and frustration in your response I’ve hit a nerve, which happens sometimes when you reveal a truth about someone that sits uncomfortably with them. Well, I have no mind to keep dragging you through the mud POC, so I’ll let you words stand here for all to see, and let it rest at that.
Have a good evening POC.
November 30th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
No, Phillip John, you’re nobody to be lecturing me after your disgraceful display yesterday. Shall I post the link to that thread so your “words stand here for all to see”?
Personally I think D4J gets enough shit thown at him. His posting style is inflammatory, sure, but it takes two pigs to mud-wrestle.
And I see this on your blog:
I’ll have this ready next time you goad D4J. Plunk.
November 30th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
roger nome – coward type really wimpish in character – jellyfish psycho twisted vengeful idiot of little value , what makes you tick – you nutbar ?
What would you expect from a patched member of the Lairbore Lickspittle Broomstick Club . Headquarters the sub standard fertilizer works . Tally how Tane and gnomer and weep silly Sleep !~!
November 30th, 2007 at 6:48 pm
gnomer is a disgrace to Otago University ask Mark H – ouch that hurt Phillip John .
November 30th, 2007 at 6:52 pm
D4J:
At least Phillip John describes himself well – slimy little toad.
November 30th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
Yes POC, he is a sad case living in a fantasy world of academic nonsense .
November 30th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
POC, I’m not lecturing – just showing you to be a disingenuous slime-ball- that’s all. And as to that message I wrote on my blog – well I have tried to stay away from rarking D4J on kiwiblog since then. Though as you know it can be quite entertaining.
D4J – I don’t know any Mark H. Like many things in your “reality”, he’s all in your head I’m afraid.
November 30th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
I’ve found the link I was looking for:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/labour_promises_tax_cuts.html#comment-361342
Phillip John asks:
“Do you deny that you threatened James Sleep with physical violence Dad?”
Gee, Phillip John, it’s a bugger that your words keep get throwing back at you isn’t it?
November 30th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
“Gee, Phillip John, it’s a bugger that your words keep get throwing back at you isn’t it?”
Not sure what you’re trying to get at there POC. Unlike you I never made out like I was against rarking D4J up.
November 30th, 2007 at 7:05 pm
I think you do know Mark – heard of the innocence project gnomer ? Thought not , he is a regular reader of this blog. Stop chuckling team and go Blue/Gold over the top ruck the shit outta the socialist cowards . RUCK THE BASTARDS . Oh well just a thought Mr Henry , must see my doctor again as that game …. anyway back to topic roger , are you are paid up member of the communist party . How long does the sub standard blog tolerate cockroaches like yourself ?
November 30th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
Phillip John:
More lies – my exact words were: “And I wouldn’t recommend winding-up D4J”.
Ask D4J if he thought I was rarking him up.
November 30th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
“I was against rarking D4J up.’
sorry gnomer as I usually just stand on rarking cockroaches , they go splat under my steel cap boots !! lovely sound it is
November 30th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
POC – you are not a rarking mad cockroach like the roger nome species is .
November 30th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
D4J – Still no bells going off with this Mark character. Are you sure he’s not just part of your imagination, as opposed to reality? Would you be able to tell the difference? Seriously, I have my doubts….
November 30th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
Thats it roger nome – you will have to pay me to argue with you . I cannot tolerate conversing with insane people like yourself anylonger. Time’s up, thank you , next please !! Pay up or go gnomer pile .
November 30th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
“Ask D4J if he thought I was rarking him up.”
Who said you were? Not I.
Plunk…..
November 30th, 2007 at 7:19 pm
Overtime only a very rare occasion roger nome do I work after hours . Monet to tight to mention thanks to caustic Kullen bastard .I just couldn’t pass the opportunity because for you to use the word ” Plunk” is about as intelligent as David Beckham on Master Mind . What a spittle you are .
November 30th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
Anyway – must dash. Going to watch “haunted love” play at the back-stage with some friends… Hope you get a life some time POC. D4J, that goes for you too!
November 30th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
Me: “And I wouldn’t recommend winding-up D4J”.
Phillip John: “Unlike you I never made out like I was against rarking D4J up.”
Me: “Ask D4J if he thought I was rarking him up”.
Quite a natural flow of conversation.
November 30th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
Yes run along, Phillip John. It’s consistent with your behaviour of skulking off when you’re feeling overwhelmed on a thread.
November 30th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
“Monet to tight to mention thanks to caustic Kullen bastard”
One last thing… So you advocate increasing the invalid’s benefit D4J? Isn’t that a socialist policy?
bye now.
November 30th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Hi all.
I understand the current debate is over whether D4J threatened me.
I would like people to dismiss this issue. It will not go anywhere other than working people up.
Please, Respect the post topic.
November 30th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
“I would like people to dismiss this issue.’
Thank you James and I wish you all the best with your political career in the Labour party.
I hope that finally clarifies matters for that rather unusual hinamanu thingy .
POC – the excuse that roger used is typical from the mentally unwell .
November 30th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
Well,,
This blog has denegrated into a typical cacofinix nutbar Doe Doe site.
I am confused. There has obviously been someone posting as Cacofinix (how can you take someone elses tag, but confirmed by DPF)
But the false posts are just as insulting immature and degrading as the real thing-it.
also James Sleep on the 26th of April at 10.19 pm (isn’t that Hitlers bday?)
charged that Cacofinix has had his children removed from his care.
At 2.41 pm he also told this 15 y o minor to “come to daddy.”
This was b4 he threatened to punch this minors head in (9.09 pm)
As we have no idea who is who I think it wise to discontinue any more correspondence with the individual D4J who is obviously highly unstable, mentally unsound, a probable bad influence to children, a suspect pedofile and a denegrator of inteligence, good taste and decorum.
DPF continues to patronise his input, so must needs, we must also.
Indeed, a good lesson in how to value free speech even if it violates public taste and decent society .
November 30th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
You are sick hinamanu – you are very sick , you are sick .
November 30th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
“D4J who is obviously highly unstable, mentally unsound, a probable bad influence to children, a suspect pedofile and a denegrator of inteligence, good taste and decorum.”
That is below the belt you #### !!!!
November 30th, 2007 at 9:14 pm
Hinamanu:
You asked about a particular allegation, and have done so on a couple of threads now. Seeing as there’s been much discussion about James Sleep lately, I pointed you to the thread – which took some tracking down I must say (so much for Phillip John’s claims about the infallibility of googling specific posts – so that’s yet another porky he’s told).
D4J and James Sleep have apparently resolved their differences, at least on this thread, so I’d suggest you leave sleeping dogs lie.
November 30th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
P O C,,
Thanx for your work and yes, as I relayed I will let the dog lie.
Although, I will say he accuses ME of what others documented of him.
But as I’ve seen, when he deflects off himself to others (like myself)
others point their fingers straight back at him.
As I’ve stated, DPF tolerates him, so must we.
He’ll shoot himself anyway. Ten to one he’ll try to bait me back.
I think I can be strong, or mostly dis interested.
be fun seeing how far he goes to hook me.
Fortunately, I’m far from a white bait.
he he,, good line
July 25th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
YOU has now launched their web site:
http://www.nzyou.org.nz