General Debate 4 December 2007

December 4th, 2007 at 12:12 pm by David Farrar
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49 Responses to “General Debate 4 December 2007”

  1. slightlyrighty (2,475 comments) says:

    Where is the public anger over the Electoral Finance Bill?
    By DAVID ROUND

    A great column in the press today

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4311797a1861.html

    A good read, but maybe some of us are more polite than we should be.

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  2. East Wellington Superhero (1,151 comments) says:

    The House will probably go into urgency today, if not tomorrow.

    Prime Minister Helen Clark will be there for Question Time today and then she’ll be gone. She won’t front-up for this important and so-called principled piece of electoral law.

    This must put her amongst either the worst or best PMs in NZ history.

    Agree or disagree?

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  3. Buggerlugs (1,592 comments) says:

    Is it wrong that the Tertiary Education Commission CEO is about to bugger off back to the UK after a lucrative contract shagging our tertiary education system?

    I reckon it is. First of all it was cutting funding to successful institutes of technology and polytechs for courses demanded by industry, now it’s shagging around with university funding.

    The fuck ups made by this woman and successive Ministers of Tertiary Education will have a significant and long term effect on our economy, but our politicians are distracted by headlines rather than issues that matter.

    I don’t know who is the bigger pack of arseholes.

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  4. Inventory2 (10,337 comments) says:

    I smell a smokescreen

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2007/12/coincidence-or-conspiracy.html

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  5. Buggerlugs (1,592 comments) says:

    EWS – word is they will push the last Sitting day out past the 14th.

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  6. East Wellington Superhero (1,151 comments) says:

    So does this make her Helen the Great or Helen the Terrible?

    Discuss.

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  7. pdm (844 comments) says:

    Isn’t it good to be able to read comments without the insidious interference from Sam Dixon.

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  8. Inventory2 (10,337 comments) says:

    slightlyrighty – thanks for that link – an excellent piece. So both APN and Fairfax papers have ripped in to the government today.

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  9. Julian (177 comments) says:

    This makes for interesting reading:

    Also the OECD estimates that 24.2 percent of New Zealanders with a tertiary education are living overseas, compared with just 2.5 percent of Australians in the same category.

    Rennie said the resource boom’s impact on Australian growth was often “overrated”, with exports making up 21 percent of its GDP compared with 29 percent for New Zealand.

    The big difference was labour productivity, the report found.

    Australian workers produce one-third more wealth for every hour worked, largely because they have more capital (machinery and technology) to work with.

    “New Zealand firms have invested less in capital than their Australian counterparts, but not because of a lack of savings or finance. Instead, the major challenge for New Zealand seems to be a lack of profitable investment opportunities.”

    “New Zealand is now the highest-taxed English-speaking nation in the OECD,” Rennie said.

    “Clearly this level of taxation will have an impact on economic growth, because it transfers money away from the entrepreneurial sector and makes investing, employing and working less rewarding.”

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  10. pdm (844 comments) says:

    Interesting that neither the SST or DomPost made any mention of the March on Saturday or the importance of this weeks Parliamentary debate. I subscribe to both and sometimes wonder why – especially at the moment.

    Danny Watson is giving the EFB a thrashing at the moment on Newstalk ZB.

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  11. RRM (9,916 comments) says:

    And now McCready’s lawyers are threatening Henare with legal action if he doesn’t front up to give evidence at the Mallard prosecution. Which raises a question – what race are we running here?

    The guy has every right to bring the prosecution, but now he is showing himself to be an officious little gimp…

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  12. Inventory2 (10,337 comments) says:

    Could have been remembered as a great PM – but the longer her “regime” has lasted, the more insular she has become, and the public percetion is of a mean-spirited, sarcastic control freak. She will forever be tarnished by all the “gates” associated with her PM-ship, and her refusal to ever admit that it was even possible that she could have been wrong.

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  13. Inventory2 (10,337 comments) says:

    pdm – SST had a bit about it on page 2 of the issue I read – they did report the “more than 5,000″ figue, which will have pissed the lefties off!

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  14. Johnboy (16,483 comments) says:

    pdm Says:

    “Isn’t it good to be able to read comments without the insidious interference from Sam Dixon.”

    Don’t tempt fate I predict a new red star will arise called Sad Mixon or similar any moment now.

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  15. Right of way is Way of Right (1,122 comments) says:

    And here we go: Questions for Oral Answer 4 December 2007

    Question 4
    JOHN KEY to the Prime Minister: Does she have confidence in all her Ministers?

    Question 8
    GERRY BROWNLEE to the Minister of State Services: What new initiatives have been undertaken by the State Services Commission since he became Minister?

    Question 10
    GERRY BROWNLEE to the Minister for the Environment: Can he assure the House that all employment and contracting decisions made by the Ministry for the Environment have been made according to Ministry guidelines; if not, why not?

    Question 12
    Hon TONY RYALL to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by his reported comments, regarding the $100 “bribe” for Wellington mothers to leave hospital within hours of giving birth, that this was “one organisation’s response to a staff shortage and was not Government policy.”; if so, is he confident that the safety of mothers and children is a priority throughout the New Zealand public health system?

    I look forward to the defence against Question 12, in the light of the reports that a first time mother was sent home 5 hours after delivery of her child after 30 hours in labour, and without the baby latching on to feed correctly.

    THE BABY DIED

    Here’s the link

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/4310851a11.html

    Come on you socialists, DEFEND THAT!

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  16. Wycroft (873 comments) says:

    Following today’s front page photo of Mallard in the Dominion Post I wonder whether Labour will take steps to put in place an extra level of scrutiny (such as the Solicitor General) on private prosecutions taken against MPs, before the case can make it to court.

    Possibly not, as down the track it might very well keep a National MP’s mug off the front page. But Labour’s recent history of legislating to remove the possibility of repeat embarrassments makes me think something will be in the wind – in the best interests of the country of course!

    It has to be remembered that this is a government that brought legislation to ban numerous forms of satire, apparently in order to protect the public’s respect for the office MPs hold. I wouldn’t be surprised if they used a similar argument as rationale for taking steps to ensure there isn’t a repeat of the Mallard photo.

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  17. Julian (177 comments) says:

    You’re right, Right of way – the silence from the socialists today is deafening.

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  18. Craig Ranapia (1,915 comments) says:

    Oh well, at least Helen can console herself that she’s having a better day than Gordon Brown.

    Latest from The Times:

    Gordon Brown’s election chief, Douglas Alexander, ordered his sister not to resign as Scottish Labour Party leader for fear of causing fallout throughout the Cabinet.

    The disclosure that Mr Alexander put pressure on his sister, Wendy Alexander, came as Peter Hain admitted failing to register donations properly and as the Prime Minister tried to rally his demoralised party at a meeting of backbenchers.

    If Ms Alexander had resigned over an illegal £950 donation, pressure on Harriet Harman to step down as Mr Brown’s deputy over an illegal donation of £5,500 could have proved irresistible. Ms Harman is further being investigated over a failure to declare a £40,000 mortgage to finance her leadership campaign. The latest embarrassment will increase pressure on Mr Brown to strip her of her role as party chairman.

    It also emerged that Ms Harman’s husband, Jack Dromey, was at the top of a secret list of approved candidates to be given safe seats in the event of a snap election.

    Read the rest at http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article2994947.ece . You won’t believe its not an early April Fools prank. How does that ABBA song go again – Money money money, must be funny’ wasn’t it?

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  19. Stanley Climbfall (108 comments) says:

    10MB sermon Bob McCoskrie gave at my Church on Sunday: http://www.rcc.co.nz/audio/message.mp3 – talks about families, yada yada yada.

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  20. burt (8,269 comments) says:

    Julian

    You’re right, Right of way – the silence from the socialists today is deafening.

    Perhaps they are too frightened to post here since their IP addresses are all over socialist vandalism on wiki !

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  21. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    Just heard about a Kiwisaver scam… from an exec in a Wgtn-based SOE.

    It works like this. Various social welfare entitlements are determined based on ones salary AFTER kiwisaver contributions.

    This organisation has had a number of people who are a year or two from retirement volunteering to contribute >70% of their salary to kiwisaver thereby dropping their income… and entitling them the various low-income government benefits.

    The SOE concerned has just set an internal policy such that employees may not have more than 10% of the salary directed into kiwisaver.

    They have also informed IRD and the Ministers office… neither of which want to know about it.

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  22. Inventory2 (10,337 comments) says:

    All on foryoung & old in the House – Key has accused Mallard of a “cowardly” attack under Parliamentary privilege, and Clark has asserted that Mallard’s attack on Erin Leigh was “mild by his standards”

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  23. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    Mild by his standards… what she means is that he didn’t walk up to Erin and land a right hook!!

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  24. Buggerlugs (1,592 comments) says:

    Or stick a Heineken bottle…never mind

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  25. Inventory2 (10,337 comments) says:

    Interesting that in Helen’s mind, Trevor’s standards are quite ok to be lower than anyone else’s. Kind of says it all about her administration methinks.

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  26. BeShakey (405 comments) says:

    “I look forward to the defence against Question 12, in the light of the reports that a first time mother was sent home 5 hours after delivery of her child after 30 hours in labour, and without the baby latching on to feed correctly.

    THE BABY DIED”

    I’m not a socialist (despite various accusations), but (despite the limited facts available) there are some things that can be said about this. Without trying to defend the policy, which was ill-considered and unlikely to be successful, the policy was to incentivise mothers who did not medically need to be at the hospital to go home. I think it is completely understandable that a mother would feel more comfortable staying at a hospital longer than is strictly medically necessary, but given the pressure on maternity services they felt the need to do something to relieve this. In this case (remembering that not all the facts are out) there was a clear medical need for the mother to stay. Trying to connect these things is a bit disingenous then because a) there is no evidence (that I have seen) that the mother left because of the voucher system, or that she even received one, and b) on the face of it this looks like the criteria were misapplied, that can happen regardless of what system we have (if we don’t just force people to stay regardless of what they want).

    Wycroft: “It has to be remembered that this is a government that brought legislation to ban numerous forms of satire, apparently in order to protect the public’s respect for the office MPs hold.”

    Some facts: there wasn’t any legislation. The changes were to press gallery rules and weren’t a ‘government’ initiative, it came out of a cross-parliament comittee that, from memory, featured national members who, at least until they thought there were political points to score, supported this. I don’t think it was a particularly good idea, but it wasn’t a bad Labour or government idea

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  27. Reg (539 comments) says:

    HC’s comments today on the Erin Leigh issue were disgraceful and
    Mallards answers or lack of them were virtually an admission of defeat.
    Cullen’s refusal to answer embarrassing questions on a technicality further enforced the impression that Labour is stuck between a rock and a hard place over the political shinnagins that have characterized the Ministry of the Environment.
    With the twin issues of Politicisation of the Public Service and the tampering with Electoral Law to benefit the ruling administration hitting us in the same week, comparisons between Clark and Chavez aren’t that wide of the mark!

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  28. democracymum (648 comments) says:

    Question What is worse

    Two Labour MP’s in the dock in the last two weeks

    or a music track that sounds a little like someone elses song?

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  29. Right of way is Way of Right (1,122 comments) says:

    Helen’s attacks on the National DVD copyright issues were a hoot, considering her integrity in matters of ownership of intellectual and artistic property!

    Signed painting anyone?

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  30. Right of way is Way of Right (1,122 comments) says:

    BeShakey, this mother ending up at home five hours after the birth of her first child is a direct result of the institional pressure being brought on to midwives to free up resources, and the lack of doctors taking up the role of lead maternity care.

    It is a direct link to health policy. The minister tried to defend it and failed, don;t try yourself, please! I think we are better than that!

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  31. Wycroft (873 comments) says:

    BeShakey, thanks for clarifying that, up to a point at least, that point being your last line. Most of the fingerprints on the amendment to press rules closely resembled those of our spiteful and poisonous deputy PM, who can give it but is so insecure that he fair bristles when anyone dares take the mickey out of him. Cullen drove it through; that makes it a “bad labour or government idea.”

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  32. Craig Ranapia (1,915 comments) says:

    BeShakey wrote:

    I think it is completely understandable that a mother would feel more comfortable staying at a hospital longer than is strictly medically necessary, but given the pressure on maternity services they felt the need to do something to relieve this.

    How about discharge them? FFS, after his heart op I’m sure my partner would have loved another couple of weeks in a comfortable hospital bed (better cooking, for a start) but there was no clinical need to be there a day longer than there was. Perhaps I’m old fashioned, but I tend to assume my GP knows WTF she’s talking about on the medical front. Ditto for the surgeon who opened my partner’s chest without killing him.

    I kind of get your point, BeShakey, but even C&CDHB are admitting waving grocery vouchers under patients’ noses is a bizarre and seriously off way to manage and allocate resources.

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  33. Inventory2 (10,337 comments) says:

    Watch 3News’ coverage of the Erin Leigh story tonight when they post the video later. In particular, watch as Helen Clark laughs as she talks about the attack on Ms Leigh as being “one of Trevor’s milder ones”. Helen Clark is a callous, vindictive b*tch, and not fit to be leader of this country.

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  34. Craig Ranapia (1,915 comments) says:

    The Hollow Woman strikes again? I wish I could be outraged, or even surprised, Inventory – but I really do believe in karna, or if you want to be a little more Anglo-Saxon about it: What goes around, comes around. I wonder what Trev’s anger management counsellor thinks about this textbook enabling – pretty hard to get bullies to own their shit when they’re surrounded by people who minimise or even reward negative behaviour.

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  35. jono (14 comments) says:

    Just heard through sps network that Mark Gosche’s son has committed suicide!!

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  36. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    Excellent – Minister of education is illiterate. Please make him sit NCEA English :)

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  37. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    jono – Oh no… that is utterly tragic. I despair when I hear things like that. The tragic waste of human potential, the grief experienced by those closests. Ug!

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  38. Lindsay Addie (1,505 comments) says:

    Latest Roy Morgan Poll:

    http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2007/4253/

    National: 48%
    Labour: 35%
    Greens: 6.5%
    NZF: 5%

    Gary Morgan says:

    “Support for the Labour Party in New Zealand remains low, at just over a third, (34%) of New Zealand electors. There has been no “bounce back” for the Labour Government following last month’s bungling of the domestic terrorism case. With the support of nearly half the electorate, if an election was held last weekend in New Zealand the Nationals would have returned to power for the first time in eight years.

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  39. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    unreal… 5% of kiwi’s would give their vote to the bauble bear ?!?

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  40. Lindsay Addie (1,505 comments) says:

    KK,

    I agree, it’s got me wacked who the heck votes for those fools. Looking at the poll results from this year the Nats have been at or above 45% apart from the first poll of 2007. The other big trend is Labour struggling.

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  41. Camus (4 comments) says:

    Sorry I meant chopped down not burnt down…

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  42. jono (14 comments) says:

    jono – Oh no… that is utterly tragic. I despair when I hear things like that. The tragic waste of human potential, the grief experienced by those closests. Ug!

    Yes tragic by any measure. As the father of a 5YO and apparently Gosche’s son had a young son also, I think it is tragic beyond all comprehension, especially for his young son.

    If it wasn’t so sad one could synically compare it to the the death of democracy in our fair country

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  43. toby1845 (194 comments) says:

    jono – forgive my ignorance, but what does ‘sps’ stand for?

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  44. jono (14 comments) says:

    sps = senior private secretary

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  45. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    “Isn’t it good to be able to read comments without the insidious interference from Sam Dixon.”

    One down,, one to go :)

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  46. Tauhei Notts (1,711 comments) says:

    Maybe this web is past its use by date but I had to mention that little doozy question that appeared in this year’s Geography page, under neath a picture of Mitre Peak;

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  47. Tauhei Notts (1,711 comments) says:

    Describe, from a feminist perspective, the above geographical feature.

    This was a question in this year’s geography paper for the NCEA examinations.

    I think this insidious feminazi crap must be cut out.

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  48. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    “jono – forgive my ignorance, but what does ’sps’ stand for?”

    This is in fact dear leaders coded rhetoric to her colleagues ie,,

    “Spend Party, Spend!”

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