Clayton Weatherston
Clayton Weatherston has been named as the person charged with murdering Sophie Elliott.
Weatherston is an economics lecturer at Otago University, and was the former boyfriend of Elliott. The university has removed references to Weatherston from their website but Google has the cache.
Also Liz Shaw has an interesting (and sad) post on what allegedly happened.
All murders are tragic and sad, but this one seems especially so as Elliott was so full of promise. And I know there is no safety in stereotypes, but dating an economics lecturer you would have thought is as safe as it gets. But madness or badness doesn’t discriminate it seems.
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January 17th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
Nice post from Liz Shaw until the forth paragraph, then she screws it up.
No need for the slap at the Police and certainly disrespecfull to Sophie Elliott.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Otago Uni seems to have no policy on the ethics of a tutor screwing one of his students? Seems bad form to me – professional boundaries and all that.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
No offence David but you better be carefully moderating comments on this thread.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
What Sonic said.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:01 am
John Dalley, I did my best to be as sensitive to the family as possible. I also did my best to remove my personal involvement from the article. But as John Campbell once said, it is hard to report on people you know, and I felt awful for writing that article. I almost wasn’t going to, but your comments have been duly noted, and I will seek to edit the article now.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:12 am
liz shaw, that name rings a bell.
Anywhere looking at the cached website it seems he was more a Phd student with some part time teaching, rather than a lecturer as normally understood.
He was also a former treasury employee and given the axe work they do on the NZ economy this attack is less surprising.
Dunedin does seem the NZ capital of dramatic murder cases.
[DPF: You know that is such a scummy comment, especially as the murder victim had been employed by Treasury. And worse you are from her university. I hope you say that to one of her friends face to face and see the reaction]
January 18th, 2008 at 12:13 am
Well John, I re-read the article and I still can’t see the problem, but what I’m saying is that had they not arrived as fast as they did, they would have been attending a double homocide.
What I’m saying is that had they not arrived as fast as they did it could have been worse.
I’m also saying that the police make mistakes, and sometimes they don’t catch the criminals but this time they did.
The funeral was a very sad service. Being there you really felt for the friends and family. As I know them personally, it was really hard seeing htem like that. Gilbert is a mess, Lesley is numb/and a mess. There were some moments of humour at the funeral, but generally it was really sad. Everyone there was supporting eachother with hugs and nobody went up and gave eulogies by themselves.
As for the Economics Department at Otago University, my understanding ist hat there is no written rule that says you cannot date a lecturer but it would be frowned upon and look at as taboo, but that’s not for us to judge. We shouldn’t try to judge the relationship they may or may not have had. We should just be judging this “man” for the crime he committed, and we should be extending our compassion to the family who are going through hell right now.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:15 am
Natural Party – that is the conclusion I have drawn. They don’t have many murders down there but when they do they are often cold and premeditated – Bain Family, Gray Family and now this.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:55 am
Wow, NPoG, pretty tacky. Did you follow the other link and read where Ms. Elliott was supposed to be starting work this week?
And, John, while I see where you’re coming from (and respect your POV) I don’t see how Liz was disrespecting the police or Sophie Elliott. I know Greg O’Connor would probably beg to differ, but I think the NZPF enjoys the levels of public respect it does because, not in spite of, a robust culture of scrutiny of Police. And that includes tipping the hat when they get it right (most of the time) as well as pointing out when they get it wrong, or could lift their game.
January 18th, 2008 at 2:27 am
“Wow, NPoG, pretty tacky.”
Hmmm, is seems like I have lost the gay maori national party vote then.
January 18th, 2008 at 5:27 am
From the news footage last night showing full frontal when he stood in the dock, there was little evidence in his facial expression of emotions one might have expected. Nor were there expressions indicating he was struggling to suppress such emotions.
From that small clip and from the nature of the crime I wonder if he falls into the category of those who haven’t yet realised there are other people in the world beside himself. It will be illuminating as his background, family life, employment record etc are revealed.
I guess the only thing one can take from this tragic event is to understand why he did it and use that knowledge appropriately. I hope it’s not placed into the insoluble mystery category.
RIP young Sophie.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:07 am
Liz Shaw:
I would suggest to you that it was the absence of “judgement” that contributed to Ms Elliots untimely demise. Clearly, Weatherston was a dangerous man, clearly he was unhinged, and likely, he was obsessed with Ms Elliott, determining that if he couldn’t have her, no-one was going to have her. If the rules regarding inappropriate (read “wrong”) relationships between tutors and students were embedded (as opposed to “frowned upon”) at Otago Uni, then Ms Elliot may well be alive today.
It is also likely that Weatherston displayed some warning signs of his obsessional, singular focussed behaviour towards Ms Elliot early on in the relationship, which Ms Elliot may not have been able to accurately “judge” at the time.
“We shouldn’t judge”? Aside from itself being a statement of judgement (and thus affirming that “Non-judgementalism” is a fools paradise), I would say that it is the absence of the practice of sound judgement that places us most at risk in the world.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:22 am
Well Liz, I can’t get poeple to read my blog for love nor money. Peersonally I thought it summaruised the situation as you saw it, and if there were any questions, well, you have the blog, I could ask you about it there. I mean that’s wat a blog is isn’t it? I didn’t have any questions, BTW which is why I’m posting here.
The ‘lecturer on student thing’ – a bit ‘eighties’ isn’t it? This is clearly about a man who couldn’t stand the fact that he was about to lose possession of his beautiful young thing. It’s just sick.
Condolences to the families involved.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:38 am
<i>And I know there is no safety in stereotypes, but dating an economics lecturer you would have thought is as safe as it gets.</i>
Once they would have said the same thing about Psychiatry lecturers. But then came Colin Bouwer. Another example of a “safe” academic date springs to mind but she was acquitted.
[DPF: Oh no no no I have always regarded many people in the psychiatry and psychology professions as unstable!!]
January 18th, 2008 at 8:02 am
“Otago Uni seems to have no policy on the ethics of a tutor screwing one of his students?”
I’m pretty sure they do
January 18th, 2008 at 8:06 am
liz shaw said “premeditated……Gray Family”
David Gray premeditated?
um, where do you start with a comment like that?
January 18th, 2008 at 8:17 am
This murder would not have occured if National had won the last election
[DPF: I know or hope you are joking but please keep politics out of this]
January 18th, 2008 at 8:26 am
liz shaw, that name rings a bell.
She moderates a freedom of speech website, which, ironically, does not support freedom of speech:
http://dontvotelabour.org.nz/forum/index.php?topic=37.0
http://dontvotelabour.org.nz/forum/index.php?topic=49.0
http://dontvotelabour.org.nz/forum/index.php?topic=34.0
http://dontvotelabour.org.nz/forum/index.php?topic=23.0
January 18th, 2008 at 8:26 am
liz shaw, that name rings a bell.
She moderates a freedom of speech website, which, ironically, does not support freedom of speech:
http://dontvotelabour.org.nz/forum/index.php?topic=37.0
January 18th, 2008 at 8:27 am
(see post #4)
January 18th, 2008 at 8:27 am
No, NPoG, you never had the ‘there are some occasions when you give the political posturing a rest’ vote. If the guy had been a former union official or Labour Party activist and (say) WhaleOil had made a crack like that, I’d be calling him out on it too.
Sorry if the truth hurts, but that’s your problem not mine.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:28 am
daedalus_x said “This murder would not have occured if National had won the last election”
I’ve read some stupid, inane and pointless comments on this and other blogs (some of which I’ve probably written!), but daedalus, that contribution would take the cake!
January 18th, 2008 at 8:32 am
Deny it all you want Inventory, you know it’s true
We have seen a massive decline of law and order in the last nine years under the Socialists. This murder is a symptom of it. There will be a lot of hard work to be done but I am confident that by 2012 John Key will have turned it around.
[DPF: I'm pretty confident there will still be murders in 2012. Very confident in fact. Key is running for PM, not God]
January 18th, 2008 at 8:34 am
Oh I see whats happening
daedalus_x wants the next slot in that “this person votes National” site
January 18th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Craig. Not suggesting that Liz is disrespecting the Police.
I felt that the one short statement about the Police making mistakes and referring to the Asher girl was i thought unecessary in the context of the article that she wrote about Sophie.
For me, it was disrespectful to Sophie who would appear to be a beautifull and talented young lady, though i don’t beleive for a second that is what Liz intended, the whole peice was very well written on the whole.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:50 am
John Dalley:
Fair enough, and thanks for the response.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:03 am
In terms of the issue of dating a lecturer/tutor – way back when I was doing it, it was basically frowned upon, but they recognised that it was tough to stop if a young tutor and student wanted to. There was however a requirement for full disclosure (obviously you don’t want the tutor marking the students papers). I wonder whether that happened in this case?
January 18th, 2008 at 9:23 am
This is an appropriate thread to stick my neck out on a subject which often arises in these situations.
It would seem that society (as reflected through the media) mourns the loss of someone of beauty and talent more than someone of average talent and looks. This I have seen commented on by ‘minorities’ from time to time e.g. a pretty white girl from Remmers gets front page while polynesian boy from Sth Auckland gets lost.
Please don’t cut me for this. It is absolutely not personal to any particular person and my very sincere condolences go out to the Elliot family. It is just an observation.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:41 am
vto I think it’s more the fact that such murders are unusual (and probably more ‘newsworthy’ like you say), rather than any particular racial or socio-economic bias.
Clayton Weatherston was a tutor of mine in Dunedin in 2001. He always seemed to look down on undergrads so we gave him a lot of stick in tutorials.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:53 am
I agree with you vto. I was particularly annoyed at the attitude in the Shappelle Corby case (admittedly mainly in Australia) which seemed to be ‘she’s pretty so she can’t have done anything wrong’. Sadly, people have actually done research on this – employment, perceived intelligence, and even emergency care (‘pretty people’ are worked on for longer when their hearts stop than others). I don’t actually think it has anything to do with ‘minorities’ (thats a whole other issue), because of course ethnicity is seperate to attractiveness.
Of course it’s a tradegy when someone attractive dies, but is it less sad than if the person wasn’t as attractive?
January 18th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Sweet zombie jesus, did DPF really just link to a post by Liz Shaw?
I am unfortunately familiar with the writings of everyone’s least-favourite D-grade porn model and sacked Shortland Street extra, and a cursory glance at this recent posting raises serious doubt that she is actually the author. Let’s face it, Shaw is batshit crazy and finds it hard to string a sensible sentence together.
I think background research at nzgames forums is in order:
http://www.nzgames.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=39
[DPF: To be fair to Liz, she has shall I say calmed down, from her earlier days. Everyone has a past, hers is just more colorful than most]
January 18th, 2008 at 11:07 am
Sorry, vto, but when a young, promise-filled and much loved young woman full of life and love and who would never hurt a fly dies in her family home, in the presence of her mum, and in such a vicious and nasty way (details still to be released, but it wasn’t pretty) it IS more tragic than a gang banger losing a knife fight.
Nobody “deserves” to die (except Clayton Weatherston), but there are varying degrees of tragic.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Paul M, agreed in the circumstances you have outlined. But yours is an example from each end of the spectrum and that is not my point.
I said “a pretty white girl from Remmers gets front page while polynesian boy from Sth Auckland gets lost.” I thought it would have been clear that I meant death under similar circumstances.
It is interesting that you equate “polynesian boy from Sth Auckland” with a “gang banger losing a knife fight” and in some ways it is exactly what you post that I am getting at.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
I made a mistake with the comment about the David Gray massacre in Aramoana. It’s just that I’d written family 2 times prior and was in that mindset.
Clayton had been Sophie’s tutor in 2006 so she had finished university by the time they entered a relationship, well finished being taught under him at least.
My understanding is that the family, Gilbert and Lesley, did not like him but accepted the relationship.
According to the New Zealand Herald and Stuff today, the relationship had ended the week before she was murdered by him. He had threatened violence at that time and I think assaulted her. Whether or not this was reported to the police is unclear.
Could this crime have been prevented? I don’t think so, but I think if police hadn’t arrived when they did it would have been a double homocide. I think he’s the type of guy who knew exactly what he was doing and planned it right down to the last detail.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
# Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left Says:
January 18th, 2008 at 8:02 am
“Otago Uni seems to have no policy on the ethics of a tutor screwing one of his students?”
I’m pretty sure they do
Actually no we don’t. I’ve been a tutor here for 2 years.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
“the relationship had ended the week before she was murdered by him”.
I think you mean that he “allegedly” murdered her. There is this notion that one is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Rather than saying that so-and-so murdered someone, it might be better if such talk was confined to after the accused’s trial. To do otherwise may be in breach of the law.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
yes ross so very true and so very often forgotten.
a judgment based solely on the prosecution is a worthless judgment.
(tho in this case, from what has been reported it appears to be fairly open and shut)
January 18th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Liz, I don’t believe that’s correct.
My understanding is that the relationship DID occur while he was her tutor. It was mostly last year when Sophie was still a student. They did, however, follow the correct procedure and declare the relationship to the department and received their blessing.
I also believe they broke up back in September/October (I think it was), although there was an element of on-again off-again since. She did tell him she was leaving for Wellington a week before (at which point he allegedly restrained her, assaulting her in the process and threatened to kill her).
And please don’t make statements about what Gil and Lesley may or may not have thought about him or their relationship. They’ve been through enough, and it’s not for you or any of us to make statements such as these. If they want to comment, let them comment.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
I am not law expert, I do understand why the police must say he is alleged. I don’t think as members of the public we would be in breach of the law.
There was an eye-witness so it is pretty clear that he did it..just perhaps a question of his mental state.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Amazing. Liz managed to speak about herself and turn her own opinions into the subject of discussion in ONLY four out of her five paragraphs. That’s got to be a record.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
And for the record, isn’t it disgusting Stuff etc using a photo of the pair in their story?? Totally inappropriate, and very hurtful and disrespectful to the family.
And Ross, screw using “alleged” in this case. There is absolutely no doubt that he did it.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
The picture on stuff is highly inappropriate.
Of course the family are going through enough, but it is in the public arena and while we can be respectful to them, it is something that’s going to be discussed. It’s news and while that is harsh that is the way it is.
There is no doubt it was him, no doubt at all so I don’t think using the word allegedly is appropriate either. Besides, this blog is clearly an opinion site so I don’t think it would be subject to the same laws that govern the news. Defamation, you’d have a hard case proving that when I believe it is true.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
The same day that Sir Peter Blake was murdered so was a nineteen year old girl . She was hitch-hiking from (I think) Papakura to Waiuku and left to die in a roadside ditch. Given that Sir Peter’s most noteworthy exploits occurred in the latter part of his life then any life ended prematurely snuffs out huge potential. Whenever someone famous dies, amid the acclamation that follows I think of that girl so that at least she is not forgotten by everyone other than her family. She was unknown to me, but was a life worth acknowledging.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
I must admit when they lifted the name suppression yesterday, I was absolutely stunned and shocked (still am)!!!! I had previously been in a fairly lengthy relationship with Clayton, and he was the last person I would ever expect to be involved in something like this.
The Clayton I knew was caring, thoughtful and fun-loving. I just keep asking myself, what drives someone of his nature to conduct such a horrific and brutal act????
I guess it just goes to show, no matter how well you think you know someone – you never really can know them completely!!!
My thoughts go out to both families.
January 18th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
MartinL Says:
“January 18th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
# Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left Says:
January 18th, 2008 at 8:02 am
“Otago Uni seems to have no policy on the ethics of a tutor screwing one of his students?”
I’m pretty sure they do
Actually no we don’t. I’ve been a tutor here for 2 years.”
thanks for that Martin
is there a policy regarding lecturers?
January 18th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
LIZ SHAW…I thought it was a very good post and doesn’t deserve all the nitpicking. My condolences to you for the grief you obviously feel.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
I think crea is right. It’s not whether Weatherston is actually responsible but whether he murdered Sophie. If he can convince a jury he didn’t appreciate what he did was morally wrong he won’t be found guilty of any crime. Whether his probable psychopathy extends that far would be for experts and a jury to decide but it’s fair to say his apparent unperturbed and patronising manner speaks for itself.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Anybody checking out the google cache would note that Weatherston taught ECON 375. Elliott had just finished honours, so would have been taking exclusively 400-level papers last year. Therefore, it would seem he wasn’t her tutor at any point in the relationship.
As there are typically very few 4th year students, and they are starting to do research, its very normal for 4th year students to socialise with other postgrad students.
As for policies on relationships between students, tutors, lecturers etc., I’m pretty sure there is nothing specific, but that anything untoward would be covered by the policy on ethical behaviour. Basically the onus is on common sense and behaving like grown ups. Like we is.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
I also very much doubt the assertion that a double homicide was prevented. Surely if he’d been planning to kill someone else, he would have stopped stabbing her once she was dead, and moved onto the next target. This was a crime of passion. The streets are likely not safer because he is in custody, contrary to Liz’s arguments.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Thanks for defending my post. This is very close to home, and writing about it is part of the process for me. I was amazed that an old guy, albiet an NZ icon received more coverage than this tragedy. Lesley is amazingly brave. I have no idea how she managed to speak at the funeral without tears. Gilbert broke down at the end of his eulogy as shown in the media item on 3 news on Tuesday night.
I’ve been speaking with one of my friends down in Dunedin and she said that Clayton appeared very normal and he must have just snapped.
This is only speculation but I wonder if he was stalking Sophie for the week prior to her demise. It just seems that he picked his timing and new what her actions would be. One can also speculate as to whether or not this attack was jealousy (about her leaving for a job at treasury) or anger (that she had ended the relationship).
Either way I feel very sorry for the family.
My argument suggesting there could have been a double homocide is, what if Lesley hadn’t let hiim into the house? He was determined to kill, so surely if he was determined as I believe he was then he would have killed Lesley and then Sophie. Another hypothesis is that Lesley gained entry to the room as the attack was still happening (though by this stage Sophie had passed on) so if the police hadn’t arrived when they had, would he have gone after her?
This is just speculation.
January 18th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Liz, it might be wise to stop speculating about this in public forum.
January 18th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Hi there, my name is Chris, and I was (at one time) very close to sophie.
Without going into details, I can say that the details of this event are too tragic to contemplate.
Clayton Weatherston is a monster of the most horrific kind, and he deserves every ounce of pain and suffering that can possibly be thrown his way.
Apart from that, I would respectfully request that rumours not be spread any further than they have been already.
Liz: You don’t know the details of the incident, as Lesley has told very few people of them. Please refrain from speculation at this point. We don’t want to say anything which may have unintended consequences.
Sincerely,
Christopher Laing.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
On reading this and given the protagonists background the words price of everything and value of nothing somehow ring chillingly true. May their like never prosper.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Actually, Sophie did take econ375 just this past semester, so Clayton would have been her lecturer at the time they were dating…
January 19th, 2008 at 12:36 am
Not trying to speculate, but it’s a fact that the majority of murder cases involving relationships is because there was adultery – I’ve forgotten the figure but it’s quite a large proportion.
[DPF: Unless you have a reference and source then your assertion is meaningless. It is also offensive to those who knew the deceased and also irrelevant. You'll get banned if I find your behaviour gets much more offensive]
January 19th, 2008 at 3:04 am
Chris, I completely concur. If the details of this case ever make it out in the light of day everyone will see what a vicious monster Clayton is.
I honestly hope he’s someone’s bitch in prison every day for the rest of his life.
And Crux, fuck you. “Not trying to speculate” my arse. Get a life, prick.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Fuck you too shit eater, even if I was speculating so what? Don’t tell me you’ve never discussed a high profile murder before of people on the news, you dumb shit.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:20 am
I’ve just had a look through all your posts on this thread Paul.M and it sounds like you might need some counseling you psycho.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Jesus, Jesus, STFU would ya?
January 19th, 2008 at 10:50 am
[DPF: Unless you have a reference and source then your assertion is meaningless. It is also offensive to those who knew the deceased and also irrelevant. You’ll get banned if I find your behaviour gets much more offensive]
It’s in my criminal law notes from 2004, and I felt it appropriate to discuss as a member of the public. I don’t see why I should have to care about the feelings of those close to the deceased, as I don’t know them personally, and am only discussing within the bounds of what is ordinarily discussed between co-workers during a lunch break in the staff room with a copy of the Press.
[DPF: Unlike personal conversations between friends, this blog has a high readership, which has included many close friend sof the deceased. A post which has an overtone of she may have cheated on him and hence is partly responsible, is offensive when she has just been buried. I don't want that sort of stuff on my blog - if you disagree go post it on your own blog.]
January 19th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Calm down you guys.. in short there can never be any defense for Clayton’s actions.. I knew him for a couple of years when he was an undergrad student and he seemed to have a very bright future ahead of him… he was intelligent & athletic… a little reserved perhaps but not socially dislocated in any way.. he was very well liked by all he came into contact with… certainly nothing to hint at this outcome… talking to my friends who still had contact with him & posts made here it seems outwardly at least very little had changed.. Calyton was not some sort of societal outsider .. there had been women in his life before & there would have been new women in his life in future …I have seen this murder described as a crime of passion but that is just not so .. it may have been an act fuelled by hate & jealousy but it was premeditated, cold blooded & must have been made in full awareness of the consequences of the act and the ramifications for all related parties… to think such an intelligent man could make a pre-meditated decision to both throw his life away and bring grief & shame to his family & Sophies … not too mention an extended commnity of friends is extremely hard to fathom.. we have all been dumped, we have all experienced the emotional pain related to that and lets face it blokes… we are all ‘cavemen’ just below the surface who have had dark thoughts in these circumstances.. but to take these thoughts and create a plan and carry out such a hiddeous act means that Clayton is either suffering some sort of mental illness or is indeed as some of you have concluded a monster… sadly he has broken the most serious of all societal taboos and it is very hard to have sympathy for what he will now have to endure
January 19th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Just to throw in one random link since you asked for it:
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0305-7070(199903)25%3A1%3C7%3ARMAPWA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-1
By the way Chuck Little – are you the same guy who comments on Ian’s http://www.tbr.cc blog? In that case a Christian reference is probably something that would be good enough for you:
http://christianparty.net/murdrateworld.htm
[DPF: I don't want to keep this debate going but a reference to killings in Zambia has no relevance to homicides in NZ. And reading that reference women were killed for also refusing to obey orders and performing domestic tasks. Anyway this topic is closed now]
January 19th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Crea said: “There was an eye-witness so it is pretty clear that he did it.”
You appear to know nothing about miscarriages of justice. One of the major reasons that miscarriages occur is because of faulty eyewitness testimony.
Christopher said:”Clayton Weatherston is a monster of the most horrific kind”
You do know that Mr Weatherston will be tried for murder. Your comment does not help given that the case is sub judice. Wait until after the trial before passing judgement on the accused, who is presumed innocent.
The Dominion Post sought to take the law into its own hands regards the Urewara 17 and has since been charged. That’s as it should be.
January 19th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
JesusCrux, how would you feel if a family member of yours was the victim of a horrific crime? Have some more compassion.
Chris, my apologies for discussing this case in the detail that I have. I will be more careful as I know you were close to Sophie for a few years and must be going through a horrible time right now, as are the family and the rest of her friends.
I also agree that Mr Weatherston is a monster and I hope he is locked up for life, and when I say life, I mean life.
January 19th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
I only knew the Elliott family in a general sense a number of years ago. The murder of Sophie can only be described as tragic. While all murders are tragic, there are degrees of tragedy. At the top of that list is when a young, law-abiding person from a good family with all the potential in the world is murdered. It rips out my heart.
The hardest part of this crime is to try and understand the reasons and motives behind it. For me it is not just difficult to comprehend but virtually impossible. Based on current police information, how someone can seemingly predeterminingly carry out such a crime – without consideration for the consequences – and with another family member present – borders on the inconceivable. It is because of this planning that this murder can be differentiated from other murders. Due to this, I sincerely hope the offender is justifiably punished (e.g. in for life). For me, there are degrees of murder and this is as about as bad as they come. (At least the offender was arrested quickly – well done the police!)
Even being distance from this tragedy, it has deeply effected our family. We just can’t imagine what her family and friends are going through now (thanks Chris for your posting above…that moved me). My heart grieves. All we can say, is that our prayers and condolences are with them all. It is just so sad.
(PS: Discussions about appropriate relationships, rumours etc are pointless…and the blogger ‘crux’ is a disgrace…where is your sensitivity?)
January 19th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
and the blogger ‘crux’ is a disgrace…where is your sensitivity?)
Look, I studied criminal law at university in 2004 and the class went through hundreds of murder cases. I appreciate Liz’s comment that if it was a member of my own family I would be quite devastated – but the truth is I will not treat this case any differently from any of the other cases I have discussed in the past, with details no different from this case. I would not expect anyone else to feel sympathy for my loss unless they were personally connected in some way. Years from now my criminal law lecturer may be discussing this case in class and be making jokes about it, as he frequently did with other cases during the year.
David wrote: A post which has an overtone of she may have cheated on him and hence is partly responsible.
The reason I raised it is because provocation is a defence to homicide in New Zealand, and there have been cases in the past where defendants has not been convicted on the basis of infidelity, which has been held to cause loss of mental autonomy. Unlike most commentators in this thread, I recognise that the law will look at the case on an objective basis, and is not going to convict someone just because people here think he’s a bastard and were Sophie’s friends.
For the record, I have nothing against adultery – monogamous relationships are a harmful system where jealousy and dominance breed. David informed me that it’s best to just let the case go to Court and the facts will reveal themselves, so I will not continue posting in this thread.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Ross, forget miscarraiges of justice. I can say with absolute certainty that he did it – there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever. Even if you have some weird idea that her mum may have somehow got it wrong, the Police also caught him in the act. It is only “alleged” in a legal sense.
Oh and Walker (Jesus Crux), you are an absolute disgrace and not worth responding to. Do you honestly think of yourself as a Christian, or is that a farce?
January 19th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
What’s Christianity got to do with this again? Would you like a sermon on forgiveness and loving your enemies.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
But to answer your question: Yes I am, if the definition of a Christian is someone who is a corrupt person who needs God’s grace even though I don’t deserve it. How about you? Do you think of yourself as a Christian, if being above disgrace is the standard you expect from me, in light of Jesus’ words that if you have hatred in your heart you are no better than a murderer?
January 19th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Note to others: DNFTT.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
“[DPF: You know that is such a scummy comment, especially as the murder victim had been employed by Treasury. And worse you are from her university. I hope you say that to one of her friends face to face and see the reaction]“
Well in the same context I would say it.
Ie, if one of her friends said to me that it is unusual that dating an economics tutor was dangerous I would say “ah yes but he was an ex-treasury employee that puts a completing different complexion on it”
I can’t see it causing any particularly pain or grief over and above the known facts. Perhaps I should have just commented on the victim’s sex life as most other people here seem to have done instead.
Although I did study at Otago it was some time ago. And I live very long way away from any of the victim’s friends now.
The most bizarre Dunedin murder was that of the Pathology lecturer who murdered his wife, apparantly beforehand he had given a lecture to his med students about the perfect undectable murder. He failed his own practical. It was a rather nasty murder, incidently, involving prescribing drugs to his wife that were gradually toxic, IIRC.
[DPF: You actually seriously believe ex treasury employees are more likely to murder people? I mean, you really do seriously believe that?]
January 20th, 2008 at 2:00 am
Firstly, Crux…I am disappointed with your postings especially as you try to present some ‘Christian’ perspective on this tragedy. Being a committed Christian myself, I feel your comments continue to fall below a standard of decency and sensitivity. What this time calls for is someone to have a degree of maturity and compassion. Your postings show that you lack those qualities and bring the faith you profess into disrepute. I suggest you read Philippians and Galatians about the attributes of Christian living before another posting…
I have just been talking to my daughter in Australia (who knew Sophie from schooldays). She is still finding this all hard to deal with and asking why and how. One thing my daughter raised is why do men keep resorting to such actions. And that is a good point to consider. If one good thing could come out of this tragedy, it would be that men started to take domestic violence seriously. (Ok, I know someone will say that it’s not only men – true but if you consider the proportion of abuse, it is very much a male problem). It is a disgrace in our society some men still think it is acceptable they can assault or kill someone they have loved. Those who do are nothing short of x#@&*$ cowards (insert your own adjective…). How this remains in a country that is considered to be a developed and civilized is hard to explain. We can’t claim to be civilized when (some) men continue to think their ‘rights’ can only be brought about by violence. There has got to be a better way to solve differences. What needs to be done? (PS. Oh, yes, I’m a man).
January 20th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Perhaps crux can identify with Weatherston’s seemingly grandiose sense of entitlement. Such people lack empathy with normal human values and emotions
January 20th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Firstly, Crux…I am disappointed with your postings especially as you try to present some ‘Christian’ perspective on this tragedy.
Actually no I haven’t been trying to present Christian perspectives on this tragedy – Paul M was the retard who decided to bring my religion into this. And I base my living on the Gospels, following Jesus’ examples of bluntness, so couldn’t really give a crap about what worldly people think of me.
January 20th, 2008 at 10:52 am
What this time calls for is someone to have a degree of maturity and compassion.
Also I don’t agree with that at all, as the tragedy has nothing to do with me nor do I know any of the people involved personally, therefore I will discuss it just as I’d discuss any other news item. But DPF has suggested to stop commenting and let the facts be revealed as the case goes to Court so I will desist from further commenting.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Please be aware that Sophie’s friends and family can read this blog and other articles relating to Sophie and her death. I’m not seeking to censor things in the public domain but please show some respect or at least have some human decency.
Many of the posts have been well-meaning and even comforting but others are offensive to anyone that knew Sophie and the details of the case. The posts suggesting the media coverage is due to Sophie being attractive are offensive. The posts suggesting Sophie was an adulterer are offensive and just plain wrong. They were in a casual, short-term relationship.
There is no provocation that could justify what he did and I too am confused at how this senseless tradgedy came about.
[DPF: I 100% endorse the post by Chris Elliott. Some of the comments have steeped over the line, as I have previously pointed out. And beyond any doubt no amount of provocation, if there even was any, justifies what happened.]
January 20th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Hi Chris, not sure if I met you at the funeral but I think you and the rest of your family are being really strong through this time. How are Gilbert and Lesley? Dad hasn’t been in touch with them the last couple of days so I haven’t really heard.
I agree with you that some of the posts on this forum are very offensive. Regardless of what Sophie was or wasn’t, the point is she was a family member, and nobody deserves to have a family member pass on in such a way. How are you coping?
I think you’re also really brave for coming on here and reading what the public are saying, that takes courage. I guess it’s something that runs in your family:-)
And yes, some of you really need to show more compassion towards the Elliott family, especially you Jesus Crux. You’re allowed to have your opinions but as far as this goes I think you should take what Chris Elliott has said into consideration, that friends and family of Sophie can read this blog and it may only add to the stress that they are already enduring. This means not saying what you think about the relationship etc etc.
Chris I really hope that the accused (can’t say the name) gets a sentence suited to the crime, and that you and the rest of your family and Sophie’s friends get justice served.
January 20th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
the first paragraph was meant to say that she was a family member and a friend to several people.
January 31st, 2008 at 11:34 am
I first heard the news on the radio at work and thought it terrible that this sort of thing could happen and thought nothing more of it. It wasn’t until the next news update were they released the name of the victim that I just went numb and was totally shocked. Tears welled in my eyes. Although I haven’t seen the Elliott family for a number of years, it is still very upsetting to hear of such a tragic event taking place. I went to Sunday school with Nick and Chris. I remember when baby Sophie came along the whole family were estatic. My mother was our Sunday school teacher for a number of years and she was very fond of all three siblings.
Not one day has gone by since this tragedy that I haven’t thought of the family and the events that took place. I feel for Sophie too and what she must have endured. I can’t understand why or how this happened but it doesn’t alter the fact that no matter what the circumstances where, no one deserves to go like this. No one in the world. I makes me sad and angry all at once that someone could be capable of doing something like this. What is society coming to? Can we all not be humane?
My heart goes out to Gil, Lesley, Nick and Chris, my family send our condolences. I cannot even contemplate what you all must be going through. I know your family will be strong and your love will get you through this sad time.
Please respect Chris’ wishes and post sensible, respectful blogs.
July 22nd, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Hey! I feel really really really sorry for sophie’s family. No one should ever have to go through that, its really sad.
As for clayton, well…if i said what i truly thought, i would most defiantely be banned from this site, so i’m not going to say what i really think :@…but my mum and I share the exact same views on that thing (clayton) and if i got within a meter of him…wouldnt end good!!!
By the way im not going to write a long detailed argument! short and to the point
July 22nd, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Wow Jesus Crux…how can you even think like that…I am from Dunedin, but Im 14 so i’m still at school, not Otago Uni, so I knew nothing about their family. Never even met Sophie or any of her family…dont know her AT ALL but I feel sooooo sorry for her family. Her poor mum and dad losing their daughter. thats just awful. why cant you just feel sorry for them. Makes it hard to believe your a christian if you’re going to act and swear like that.
i think you should shut it okay
July 22nd, 2009 at 7:01 pm
I wouldn’t be surprised if Weatherston appeals based on the conduct of the Elliot family and DPF preventing a fair trial. Check out this link and its members:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=102121957699&ref=nf
This guy was always going to prison. All the people in the media trying to milk this one are making Weatherston’s appeal stronger.
Trying to use this case to justify a law change is ridiculous. Should a victim’s reputation be challenged? If it suits the defence is the short answer.
The character assassination job Sophie Elliot was doing on Weatherston got around the economics department, most of the commerce faculty and spread to several people in Treasury. Hell, it got to people in accounting firms and investment banks in London, New York, Melbourne and Sydney. Does a bitch suddenly become an angel when she’s murdered? No.
I don’t feel sympathy for anyone in this mess. Everyone was as bad as eachother. Two bad people took eachother out. No one wins.
July 23rd, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Wht the heck! He killed her! and she was not a bitch, how can you say that to someone who’s dead.
And omg u dont feel sympathy for the family…well ur mutated