Help the hungry Japanese
Sent by e-mail:
The Japanese government must believe their people are very hungry, otherwise they would not be hunting whales in the Southern Oceans.
To assist our Japanese friends, we propose to send packets of instant noodles to Japan to save the whales from being eaten. To show the intent of these noodles, please attach a letter to the Prime Minister of Japan, Yasuo Fukuda, about the continued Japanese whaling in the south seas, and the world’s opposition to the wasteful and unneeded slaughter of whales.
Individual noodle packets can be sent to:
Prime Minister Yasuo Fukuda
1-6-1 Nagata-cho
Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 100-8968
JAPAN
I wonder how many packets they will receive.
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January 14th, 2008 at 9:44 am
Brilliant idea. I’ll send some today.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Maybe whale meat tastes nicer than instant noodles?
Leave the Japanese alone to hunt and eat their damned whales!
January 14th, 2008 at 10:42 am
I have always suggested NZ start hunting cranes for “research purposes”.
January 14th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Let them eat eachother.
Call it “research”.
January 14th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
I am interested in purchasing some whale meat for consumption – what is the barter rate if paying in noodle? Cheers,
An interested buyer of goods and services.
January 14th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Apart from being a tasty gourmet experience for our yellow friends and an endless source of funds for the likes of Greenpeace, what actually do whales DO in the scheme of things?
99.8% of New Zealanders have never even seen a whale, or had any experience at all of whales. Whales, per se, don’t impact on the general man in the street at all. If every whale in the world were to snuff it tomorrow, unnoticed while the media was absorbed in some fascinating aspect of Britney Spears’ breasts, then the effect on life in general would be approximately zero.
What’s this fascination with these huge belching smelly barnacle encrusted animals all about?
January 14th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
fail to see the difference between whales and cattle – how would we like it if India decided we should be allowed to kill cattle for food.
January 14th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
It doesn’t take 8 hours to torture a cow to death with small sharp spears.
January 14th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
What do people “DO in the scheme of things” dave?
Kevin, cows go moo, live in the green bits on the map and tend to be four legged, whales go splashy splashy, live in the blue bits with leaning towards fishlike. Hope this helps.
January 14th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
I think Dave’s raised an interesting metaphysical question:
If a living thing is unknown to people, does it deserve to live?
January 14th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Murray, people are the dominant intelligent species on this particular planet. Thats what we ‘do’. We got to be this way by having a keenly developed instinct for survival which (up until now) has overridden other animals’ survival.
As kevin_mcm tried to say (but failed due to a grammatical or typing error), this whole whale thing is a question of relative cultural values. The Hindus wouldn’t get very far if they tried to stop the US beef industry, and the Japs themselves are generally horrified that we kill those sweet cuddly little lambies to eat. Its all a matter of culture.
I couldn’t give a flying fuck about the bloody whales, thank you very much. To me they are belching smelly barnacle encrusted animals. To the japs they are food. Get over it.
January 14th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
I don’t give a flying fuck about the Japanese.
But I’m not either adovcating removing them from the planet or prepared to do nothing while someone else does.
As for being dominant. I don’t believe any species prepared to allow itself to every aspect of existance dictated to it by Helen Clark and her cronies to be anything other than a doomed subservient evolutionary dead end.
Its all down to culteral values no doubt.
Last check moos moos not on the endangered list.
January 14th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
“What actually do whales DO in the scheme of things?”
What do you do in the great scheme of things Dave, 99% of people in NZ have never even met you either, if you were to snuff it tomorrow the effect on life in general would also be approximately zero.
I assume then that you would have no objection if someone harpooned you for dinner?
January 14th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Well some people value (the non-monetary kind) having such animals around. I for one would be quite sad if we were only left with ‘useful’/desirable animals like cattle and domestic pets, as well as the animals we were unable to get rid of, like cockroaches and flies.
January 14th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
I’m with you on the Japanese Murray. I don’t give a flying fuck about them either, as I am lucky enough to live in a society thankfully freed by nuclear firepower from THEIR 1933-1945 efforts to remove US from the planet – hahahaha!
I liked your rejoinder about dominance… made me smile
Many a true word is spoken in jest!
Seriously though, I don’t think these big stinky whales are going to be wiped out. The Japs eat them/they decline in numbers/they get harder to catch/prices go up/less Japs eat them/whaling goes on the back burner/pause/pause/whale numbers increase/the japs eat them etc etc
January 14th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Dave – humans record on extinction shows that a market based approach to conservation isn’t going to work.
January 14th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
sonic, just to be clear, are you advocating violence and extreme personal endangerment towards Dave?
If you are please first identify your target clearly!
January 14th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
The fact that the Japanese whaling fleets are subsidised by government funding makes that slightly more unlikely.
Whales are also very slow to reproduce, which means they require VERY careful management and research /’research.
January 14th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Apart from being a tasty gourmet experience for our yellow friends and an endless source of funds for the likes of Greenpeace, what actually do whales DO in the scheme of things?
They lay back and enjoy the sun: http://www.seancoon.org/wp-content/postimages/whale-penis.jpg [Note: R18]
January 14th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
BeShakey, In what way? What irreplaceable species that are useful to humans have we made extinct? How has this impacted at all on the human race as a species and prevented it from growing and thriving?
Have you personally or has any member of your family been devastated by the loss of a much loved free tailed bat Chaerephon Tomonensis?
January 14th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
You wouldn’t be sad (or at least a bit miffed) if we managed to wipe out the Kiwi??
January 14th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Dave – I don’t think we are going to have any chance of resolving this here, but I don’t agree with you that we should only be concerned about the extinction of species that we know are useful to humans.
None of my family have been ‘devastated’ by the loss of the Chaerephon Tomonensis. Likewise, none of them have been ‘devastated’ by, for instance, the father in the US who threw his three children off a bridge then drove off leaving them to fend for themselves (as far as I’m aware one has been found dead from starvation and the other two are missing). Despite this I think it is a good thing if this had never happened, and now that it has happened, that something is done about it.
January 14th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Hahaha, nice one.
Fukuda has much bigger issues to worry about than a bunch of westerners getting uppitty about a little whale hunting.
January 14th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Heh heh, first time i’ve heard of ‘westerners’ getting uppity!!
January 14th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
BeShakey, you are using a non sequitur argument. The two examples are not equivalent in any way, so you can’t compare them. Its an old trick, but too tired to be effective, I’m afraid.
stephen, yes, I would be a bit miffed if we wiped out the kiwi; however, if they bcame extinct, it would simply be an example of the (fairure of) survival of the (un) fittest, and, if it were a question of the human race’s trhriving and development vs the kiwi’s survival, I’m afraid I would choose the humans in a flash.
And this is what this whole whale/endangered species argument is all about, it seems to me. It is a question of whether or not we as a species are going to allow our development and growth to be stunted and denied on the basis of emotive and flawed quasi-religious beliefs which have little or no logical basis.
Fuck the whales. Save the humans.
January 14th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Dave – your argument was extremely vague, but I took it was wrong of me to suggest saving various species when my family don’t feel devastated by the loss. I was pointing out that there are various things that people don’t feel devastated by, but are worth doing something about. If you want to be a bit clearer about what exactly your point is, I can try and respond to it a bit more accurately.
You also make the fairly common mistake of drawing a normative conclusion (we shouldn’t stop extinctions) from a descriptive statement (facts about evolution). Unfortunately you can’t draw normative conclusions from purely descriptive facts. Its the same mistake made by social darwinists.
I do agree with you about it being OK to choose saving humans over kiwis, but since it isn’t a choice we are faced with it is a bit irrelevant.
January 14th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
I would be equally miffed it conservation and economic development became mutually exclusive. I very much doubt that ANY animal’s survival will ever threaten the human race though. I forget if viruses count as animals though.
January 14th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
sonic, actually more than 99% of people in New Zealand have never met me, but thanks for boosting my PR statistics!
If someone harpooned me for dinner, of course I would have some objection. I would have a very strong objection as a matter of fact – but this would be a personal matter between me and the harpooner and the remaining 99.99999% of people would not be affected in any way except that it might give some of them a mild frisson of voyeurism when they read about it on the internet.
STORY
“Harpooner in mermaid suit strikes a blow for Kaikura tourist industry: the victim, an 82 year old researcher for youth initiatives, was heard to croak “You’re a Dick, Moby!!” as his attacker, an unemployed sound engineer, struck with deadly force. Dick, the sound engineer, known also as Sonic, said “I did it so that my brothers may swim freeeeee.” “His attempt to escape was hampered by the latex tail he was wearing,” said Sgt A Plod in an interview. “If he hadn’t been wearing that whale suit he might have evaded capture forever as all the police are at present engaged arresting people who flick their children in public.”
ENDS
January 14th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Thats a colourful and engaging fantasy life you have there Dave.
Must be a comfort.
January 14th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Dave – I don’t think Sonics argument is a good one, but your response seems very strange. Are you saying that if for some odd reason someone harpooned you with the intent of eating you, it would be a personal matter between the two of you and no one else should intervene?
January 14th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Whaling isn’t about “fuck the whales” anyway, this isn’t an argument about endangered species.
The idea of whaling for food is to harvest whales in such a way as to ensure that you’ll be able to harvest the same amount of whales (or more) next year, forever.
People who don’t like the idea of whales like to frame it as an “endangered species” argument, because it sounds far more persuaive than just saying “oh but gee I like whales, please don’t kill them because I say so”. Then it’s just a matter of how many people you can fool into believing what you say.
January 14th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
BeShakey, no. It means I felt like a bit of fun.
david@tokyo, yes, exactly. However, “Fuck the wales. Save the humans” is still a very solid pholosophical platform, isn’t it? hehehehehe………
January 14th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Yes Dave, because whales are such a threat to the human race.
January 14th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Come ON, whales have never been remotely in danger of being hunted to extinction SINCE mankind discovered that they could burn that slimy black stuff that came out of the ground for lighting, instead of whale oil.
What if the Indians who regard cows as sacred started to get all militant towards NZ?
January 14th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Quoting David@Tokyo:
People who don’t like the idea of whales like to frame it as an “endangered species” argument, because it sounds far more persuaive than just saying “oh but gee I like whales, please don’t kill them because I say so”. Then it’s just a matter of how many people you can fool into believing what you say.
Well then it’s fortunate for the whales that a very large number of Greenpeace supporters around the world *like whales*…
January 14th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Oh leave the whales alone and find something else to eat. Research -piffle.
The Japanese sell the damn things and make money out of it. Totally unnecessary.
January 14th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Do the noodles have whale meat in them?
January 14th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
If they are intended as a whale meat alternative, then one would presume not.
January 14th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Speaking of cows, how about “COWS WITH GUNS”
January 14th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Ramen o tabemasuka?
January 14th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Minke whales. Anybody have any idea how intelligent they are, how big they are, how many there are? Why are all whales protected and fish not? It’s like saying “all land mammals are protected, but you can eat reptiles, insects and birds.” I’m all for protecting blue whales, humpbacks, dolphins and orca. Maybe a handful of other species. Minke – who cares. Goats of the sea I call them.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:15 am
“The Japanese sell the damn things and make money out of it. Totally unnecessary.”
More unnecessary because they don’t make money out of it. The demand for whale meat has been declining rapidly, the industry only stays afloat (so to speak) because of large subsidies from the government.
January 15th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
BeShakey,
It’s correct that the Japanese Government, which sponsors the JARPA programme in the Antarctic, does not make money out of it. However, it was never intended that it would make money. While many in the west buy the anti-whaling line that “research whaling is commercial whaling in disguise”, people in Japan do in fact believe that research whaling is for research, not commercial profit. Revenue from the whale meat that is sold into the distribution chain here is put towards offsetting some of the costs of the research in the following year (around 80-90%, I believe), the taxpayers make up the difference.
However, it may be misleading to suggest that “demand for whale meat has been declining rapidly”.
Due to the IWC’s commercial whaling moratorium (which Japan, Norway, Iceland, Russia, South Korea, China, Denmark and others including many many developing countries think is now unnecessary and should be overturned) there is a relatively limited supply of whale meat in Japan, and most of the meat available is through the research programmes the government runs (there are other legal sources of meat, too though). However, the research programmes produce only about a fifth of the amount of meat that was produced just prior to the imposition of the moratorium in the 1980’s.
So, I argue that it’s more appropriately to look at how “supply for whale meat declined rapidly”, than point to demand side effects.
In fact, increases in the scope of the research programmes in recent years have led to more whale meat being made available on the Japanese market. This has seen consumption increase significantly. On my blog I follow official statistics from Japan’s ministry of Agriculture Forests and Fisheries that cover stocks of marine products, including whale meat. The trend is quite clear: When there is more whale meat -> Consumption increases; When there is less whale meat, or no increase in whale meat -> Consumption decreases, or stagnates. People can only eat as much meat as is available. As for prices, while they are down from highs hit in the 1990’s, whale remains relatively expensive compared to subsitutes like Kiwi beef.
January 15th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
david@tokyo, its really good to read something from somebody who actually knows something about whaling ‘research’.
While my comments on whaling are more broad brush ‘position statements’ drawn from my overall observations, you have obviously looked into the subject in some depth, so thank you for your observations.
I am often surprised by the breadth and depth of knowledge people who comment on this and other blogs can contribute. The power of the internet is amazing. Cheers.
January 15th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
David – while I’m not in a position to get into a detailed argument with you on something you clearly have done a lot of research on, I can point out that consumption isn’t the same thing as demand. In this case, if the supply is limited and prices have been declining nonetheless, that would indicate that demand is decreasing. While I didn’t speculate on the reason/s for declining demand, the suggestion that substitutes are cheaper seems entirely plausible.
The main point I was making was to correct the claim that the whaling industry (whether it is seen as a research industry or a food industry) relies on subsidies for it’s survival as it is not profitable.
January 15th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
David
So whale meat is auctioned for money-right?
Then money is made. The fact its a loss is irrelevant, the CASH supports the whaling
January 15th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
BeShakey,
You are quite right to point out that demand and consumption are different things.
In terms of prices, what has happened since the mid 1990’s is Japan expanded the scope of it’s research programmes.
Initially it was only taking up to 330 minkes in the Antarctic, but they later broadened the size of their “research area” in the Antarctic Ocean, and added 110 more minkes to their “sample size”. Subsequently they also commenced a research programme in the western north pacific, which has also seen additional species gradually added, and most recently the scope of the programme in the Antarctic was increased (400 minkes became 850, plus fin whales and humpbacks). So, as a result there is at least twice as much whale meat coming on to the market today than there was a decade or so ago, although the market still has far less meat today than it had during the commercial whaling era.
I believe the main driver behind price decreases has been the Japanese government. They regulate the price of the whale meat at auction so as to offset the costs of the research programmes that is not bourne by the Japanese taxpayer. With more whales being caught in recent times, they have been able to lower prices and still cover these costs. This is just wholesale prices though – the middlemen and retailers are apparently able to set the price of the products however they see fit, and it remains relatively expensive, although even people like me can afford it once in a while now.
As for your main point, indeed Japan’s research whaling programmes do rely on public funds to continue, in addition to whale meat sales. Whether the research whaling programmes constitute a “whaling industry” or not is another argument
Currently “whaling industry” is effectively banned, internationally.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Captain Crab,
The money helps offset the costs of running the programmes.
Whether the programmes are necessary or not depends on your perspective regarding whether sustainable utilization of marine resources. Japan’s policy is in favour of such utilization. They deem the research programmes necessary, and I suspect will continue to do so for as long as Japan exists as a nation.
From the perspective of people who don’t like others eating whale meat and wanting them to stop, since the Japanese government isn’t making a profit out of the activity, then indeed I understand that to people holding such views it would seem unnecessary.
Japan’s perspective is different however, and unfortunately (I think) it doesn’t get much decent coverage in the western media.
January 21st, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Of course, the hungrrrry Japs can solve their own dietary problems….with 900 Minkes and some 50 Humpbacks…..perfectly sustainable…..
You racially and culturally excluding dietary NZ fascists should have a better appreciation of ethnic forelock tugging required here.
Cutting edge as you are.