I just think there’s sometimes appalling ignorance displayed by some who seem the imagine the US is always 100% true and just and the baddies are always 100% wrong.

That’s a childish, naive view of reality which can be easily negated if you approach the history with an open mind. However if you approach it with a mindset like some pining Reaganite refugeee from the 80′s, then perhaps that’s why you end up with the transparently incorrect analyses promulgated by some. And BTW, in case you wonder I’m a lifelong conservative, not that orientation matters when you’re analysing geopolitics.

I have done, he was part of the Mujahdeen being funded by the US and Saudi Arabia to fight the Russians.

You seem to be denying that fact then justifying it David, do try and get your line straight.

go to

http://armstrade.sipri.org/arms_trade/values.php

and dial up Iraq, imports and a time frame.

The biggest suppliers by far were Russia, China and France – who were funnily enough the very countries that prevented Saddam’s overthrow being done via the UN.

Well unless it implied they did not fund his group and give him weapons.

Really David, have you forgotten your hero’s Maggie and Ronnie and their unflinching support for the “Afghan freedom fighters” battling the evil empire?

Or is this another “we have always been at war with Eastasia” type of day?

[DPF: Go check the facts about what his involvement was then. And they were 100% right to support the Afghan people against the USSR, even if some of them were unsavoury, just as NZ was right to support Stalin in the war against Hitler]

“In March 1986, the US and Britain blocked all UN Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq’s use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the US was the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement condemning Iraq’s use of these weapons. The US Department of Commerce licensed 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax. In May 1986, the US approved shipment of weapons-grade botulin poison to Iraq. In late 1987, Iraq began using chemical agents against Kurdish separatists in northern Iraq.

Four major battles were fought in the Iran-Iraq war from April to August 1988, in which the Iraqis effectively used chemical weapons to defeat the Iranians. Nerve gas and blister agents such as mustard gas were used, in violation of the Geneva Accords of 1925. By this time, the US Defense Intelligence Agency was heavily involved with Saddam’s military in battle-plan assistance, intelligence gathering and post-battle debriefing. In the last major battle of the war, 65,000 Iranians were killed, many with poison gas.”

War with Iran is much more likely than some seem to think. And the consequences will be devasting to the world economy.

Iran, China, or Russia won’t tolerate any bombing of Iran’s facilities, and that is looking very likely indeed. Olmert is reported today to have told a cabinet committee that “All options that prevent Iran from gaining nuclear capabilities are legitimate within the context of how to grapple with this matter.”

Add that comment to the Bush comments about (a) disregarding the NIE, (b) all options are on the table (meaning “nukular”) and (c) standing beside Israel no matter what, and we begin to see a potential issue.

The consequences of China and Russia becoming involved are obvious. Even if they don’t, Iran will immediately escalate the Iraq conflict and possibly cut the supply lines to the US Forces there. The US know this – just why do you think ALL 36 of those intelligence agencies issued NIE? There have been many reports of the military resisting Cheney’s insane Iran adventure (that’s where its coming from). The Stratfor comment from JC is not taking into account the manouvering both Russia and China has been engaging in against the US not only in the ME but elsewhere and both nations could well use an Iran strike to deal the US a serioud blow.

The US simply reflects one part of humanity, for better or worse, as we all do in our small ways.

One thing though, very briefly – the US is a system where the power is spread so wide that no single person, or even entity, can control it. It is spread through the judiciary, the executive, the elected reps, the military, the biz world, the churches, the … etc etc etc. Each has some type of power and control and a form of veto over one another.

As such, as no one person can control it the system is effectively out of control and is running on and bending and moving all the time, according to the structure in place. As far as I know there has not been a system like this before as previously power was more concentrated and hence controllable.

It will be very interesting to see where it ends up as it runs towards some form of stop.

Bring on the cloning improvements as I would like to be around to watch (from the safety of my living room of course)

What utter worthless juvenile crap. The measures Bush has taken to combat terrorism are necessary due to the peculiar nature of the terrorist forces the US is fighting. If a suitcase nuke goes off in New York, it will be hate driven irrational and raving bigots like Frog who will be the first to scream that Bush hadn’t done enough.

The fact is that the right to criticism of the government is still totally undiminished by anything Bush has done. You cannot say that about the Klark government, attacking the Exclusive Brethren and the right to freedom of political expression in a way the Bush administration would never even dream of. Frogblog while so predictably complaining about the actions of the Bush administration simultaneously supports Klark. What arrant hypocrisy.

This pathetic nonsense is a measure of the immature and illogical thinking processes that underpin the writing of the extremist leftists on Frogblog. Its why I never normally read it. Rambling logically inconsistent commie pissants without a clue.

Name the nation that sends 747 loads of food around the world to needy people ?

In the event of a nuclear exchange and only one of the nuclear armed states had survived,would you prefer that state to be China,Russia or USA ?

The UNs budget is 40% funded by just one country-Who?

and so on….you get the picture O frog,green with envy.

What an interesting day. At least phillipjohn admitted he was wrong (even if he had to try and weasel out of being caught lying again…)

sonic is just trolling as usual – black is white, americans are evil etc etc – must be the scottish way?

Sure, we’d all like them to be pure and altruistic, but that only works if the countries you’re dealing with are also pure and altruistic … and that’s just not going to happen.

And they have so many interests to protect, and those interests extend all around the world, so they’re inevitably going to have a presence (ie meddle) in other countries.

Added to which they’ve consciously chosen a defence posture of not fighting their wars on American soil … ie they’ve consciously chosen to fight their wars on other people’s soil.

Those sort of assumptions are actually quite rational, but they lead the USA into some unpopular escapades.

I think it’s naive not to expect the USA to show some sort of realpolitik, and not to put extreme pressure on other countries to align with the USA’s interests. I don’t necessarily like that sort of behaviour, but it’s quite rational.

Damn you’re thick.

It is exactly why the usa is going down down down in people’s cred stakes. And politicians everywhere frankly. If hypocrisy had a stench the whole world would smell like Rotorua.

Give more power to the people. Less to the authorities.

The Saud family recognise that democracy would be the end of the them … they’re a relatively small tribal group who’d never win an election. So no voice for anyone else then.

Like any minority group dominating a larger population you need a big buddy to help you out. Enter the USA.

The USA (i) just generally is the immoral “Great Satan” type outfit and (ii) has too many troops & expats in the Saudi “holy land” for Wahhabi comfort.

So … you end up with the USA & the Saudi establishment being quite cosy. And the Wahhabi religious authorities rarking up the masses to drive out the infidels and purify the Holy Land.

And then overlaid on top of that the Saud family find it’s useful to opiate the Saudi masses with Wahhabi-istic zeal and jihad, so they’re too busy to question (i) just why the Saud family are in control of Saudi Arabia, (ii) why does no one else get a say and (iii) what’s with all the girls & booze & immoral behaviour of the Saud family on their overseas excursions.

There’s more than enough contradictory motivations and incentives there to create never-ending turmoil.

I agree – usa backed Laden and Saddam. I guess that makes them terrorist supporters.

And then last night on some foreign news channel I see Bush selling $US20billion worth of arms to the saudis!!! BUT WEREN’T THE 9/11 TERRORISTS FROM SAUDI ARABIA?

W T F ?

Can I nominate that for funniest comment of the year so far?

David those are undisputed and verfiable facts, unless certain facts have an inbuilt anti-American bias you are talking out of your hat.

[DPF: They are not facts, the US has never supported Osama Bin Laden in the way implied and it is anti-Americanism unless one also condemns NZ for supporting Stalin]