The first score
Of course partisans from both sides will argue their camp, but Martin Kay of the Dom Post gives the score as:
Is that it?
Prime Minister Helen Clark’s response to National leader John Key’s state of the nation speech was hardly the torpedo she had been expected to loose off in the opening engagement of the election.
Instead of sinking Key with a headline grabbing-announcement of her own, Clark has invited voters to compare what’s on offer from the two main parties. And Labour is likely to come off second best….
In the opening salvo, then, it is John Key 1, Helen Clark, 0.
A vigorous debate in the comments section. I recognise many of the names (waves to Tony (congrats on the wedding) and Conor).
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January 30th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Even the Standard are trying to assert their independence from the Labour Party by calling Helen’s state of the nation speech “dull”.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
I think that’s a fair assessment. I felt JK’s speech showed where they want to go and Ms Klark’s speech was a bit lame. We could argue that they have had long enough in power to do something but I guess there is always something new to be done. However I am so over Labour always blaming National of 9 years ago for everything. Why doesn’t JK just come out and say something like….. we are a new refreshed party and what happened 9 years ago is history. blah blah blah.
And maybe Annette will get a slap on her wrist for going to South Auckland today, it’s certainly taken the gloss off Klark’s speech. But at least everyone in Sth Ak can rest easy, she assured them that they are all safe. I wonder if she’d fancy a stroll around the neighbourhood late one night on her own??
January 30th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
NZ Herald January 30, 2008
“A young Christchurch boy was admitted to hospital today after being attacked and bitten by a dog.”
Helen’s pathetic attempt to stem the flow of violence amongst out of control youth by keeping them at school until they are 18 (lol) – is as impotent, as the government’s legislation to stem the attacks by vicious dogs.
She has just condemned those kids who want to learn to years more disruptive classes.
PS Prime Minister my son will finish high school at 16 – he will be 2/3 of the way through a degree before he will be allowed out of school!!
And unlike our Prime Minister who has spent most of her life inside academic institutions – there are lots of kids who would be better off getting out of school and getting a trade.
Some of them could even become, truancy officers, or dog control officers
January 30th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Meh… I’d give them both 7/10 — no horrendous FUBARs in the delivery, nothing really surprising on the substantive (but still detail-light) content.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
That’s a good idea, Michaels. Actually, I think John Key should go one step further, and say: “A government I lead will not blame the previous Labour Government for the issues facing New Zealand, as Labour consistently tries to blame National for events of nine years ago. Instead, we’re going to look ahead and build constructive solutions to today’s problems.”
Take the pinkos out of the discourse entirely.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Police Minister Annette King has assured south Auckland residents their community is safe, after a gang shootout at an Otara tinnie house last night.
It’s a Tui…Clark is out of touch with the electorate, and King is increasingly out of touch with reality…
January 30th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
“A government I lead will not blame the previous Labour Government for the issues facing New Zealand, as Labour consistently tries to blame National for events of nine years ago. Instead, we’re going to look ahead and build constructive solutions to today’s problems.”
That’s pretty clever. It makes it sound like they’re on an even footing, the two of them.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
I once met a headmaster for an institution for kids that no other schools wanted. He told me of a very talented 18 year old he had. He had natural academic, sport and music talent but a huge attitude problem.
At the time I was a candidate for ACT and it was election year. I said to him “what if you could say to that kid he was only entitled to 5 years unemployment benefit in your lifetime and no more than 2 years at any one time”? His jaw dropped and all he could say was “if that was the case my school would not need to exist”. A very telling reaction.
Give kids every opportunity by all means. That is the carrot. However we are entitled to expect something in return and that should be supported by a stick. Time limit on benefits provides that.
No programmes, no more bureaucrats, no millions of dollars of dodgy spending. What’s more it would work. It only requires political courage.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
I once met a headmaster for an institution for kids that no other schools wanted. He told me of a very talented 18 year old he had. He had natural academic, sport and music talent but a huge attitude problem.
At the time I was a candidate for ACT and it was election year. I said to him “what if you could say to that kid he was only entitled to 5 years unemployment benefit in his lifetime and no more than 2 years at any one time”? His jaw dropped and all he could say was “if that was the case my school would not need to exist”. A very telling reaction.
Give kids every opportunity by all means. That is the carrot. However we are entitled to expect something in return and that should be supported by a stick. Time limit on benefits provides that.
No programmes, no more bureaucrats, no millions of dollars of dodgy spending. What’s more it would work. It only requires political courage.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
“And unlike our Prime Minister who has spent most of her life inside academic institutions – there are lots of kids who would be better off getting out of school and getting a trade.”
I heard an ad on the radio a few weeks back for a small local plumbing firm looking for qualified plumbers. Starting salary was 70K plus benefits. Plenty of kids who are at school would be better off working towards an apprenticship. Clark’s scheme will just mean more truants on the streets.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
John Key would have done much better if he had worn his traditional National Party getup …
http://kiwiblogblog.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/johnkeyevilcorp.jpg
[DPF: And as that is the 27th or so link whore and is a three month old link, with no relevance, that will be the final link whore for today]
January 30th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
The idea that you should keep kids in school till they are eighteen will increase financial burdens on families therefore assist in break-ups, encourage truancy and encourage more kids into the black economy as they feel the need to disguise their activities from the state.
The biggest issue confronting Key is how to get Nzers over their bowels-to-water paranoia that National is the devil in disguise.
http://monkeyswithtypewriter.blogspot.com/2008/01/slaying-dragon-john-keys-speech.html
January 30th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
DAMN RUTH its all your fault , that witchy helen has such a soft target to blame(you), for our countries current morass, i personally blame it on a bad batch of sociallest teddybears, bought into the country in 1992, because its been total cream and honey since helen came to power 9 years ago.
YER RIGHT
January 30th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Aaaaah, I’m so glad I don’t have to put up with roger nome over at my place.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Roger Nome, you (or the KBB lads) are in particular venomous form today. Keep it up, gives more ammo for the VWRC to smack you down with.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
“[DPF: And as that is the 27th or so link whore and is a three month old link, with no relevance, that will be the final link whore for today]”
I’ve been meaning to say that I find the whole phrase “link whore” to be quite offensive. I mean what does linking to a different blog have to do with sex work? Where’s the analogy? So it’s certainly not clever, and just seems like another excuse to beat up on sex workers. Tasteless.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
“New Zealand, as Labour consistently tries to blame National for events of nine years ago…….”
No it’s not, In fact it’s grammatically nonsensical. Um yeah – that’s what happens when you screw up a country while you’re in government – you get blamed for it…
January 30th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
ignore the first sentence of the last post …
January 30th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Phillip John/Roger Nome:
Oh sooky wah wah. You’re practically begging someone to pull up old threads where you’ve described people as “twats”. Unseemly. Tasteless. Hypocritical.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
As Nome balls seems to have a problem understanding here is a helpful article. Perhaps he can pass it on the rest of the lefty lickspittles.
http://www.mpdailyfix.com/2006/05/are_you_a_link_whore.html
January 30th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
“Oh sooky wah wah. You’re practically begging someone to pull up old threads where you’ve described people as “twats””
“Twat” as an insult is non-gender specific, as is “prick”. So I don’t have a problem with these insults if the cap fits – their use typically doesn’t involve prejudice and bigotry against a group of people. Interestingly you don’t seem to mind a little bigotry but when an “unseemly” word (to your ears) is spoken you get all upset.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
We are too regulated.I went to a Technical College in the early 1950′s when kids could leave school at 15, get a driver’s licence and meaningful work. The colleges worked well, even those who were streamed for University had extensive workshop practice. Other had a more general education. Wellington Tech had a reputation for science and maths teaching while Wellington College was for potential lawyers. We could do well to re-visit those times. Kids weren’t left to languish at school who had no inclination to be there and streaming took care of their needs and interests. This no-fail, we will make IT graduates out of everyone prevalence, is not founded in sense but ideology.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Phillip John/Roger Nome:
DPF moderates his own blog – you’re not seriously expecting me to take on a full-time responsibility, are you? Otherwise, if you’re referring to something else, I’d invite you to substantiate your smear. Note that I was pointing out your own hypocrisy. You invited this with your previous comment.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
I didn’t invent the term, but is is commonly used on blogs.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
“As Nome balls seems to have a problem understanding here is a helpful article.”
From the article ….
Except I’m not being paid, and KBB isn’t a commercial site. There’s no analogy, it’s just lame and base bigotry.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Nome you seriously need to get laid. Find a whore if you can’t pull a chick by yourself.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
“you’re not seriously expecting me to take on a full-time responsibility, are you?”
Not at all I’m just interested that you choose to criticise someone for using a non-bigoted everyday expletive, but you choose to remain quiet about the use of bigoted expletives in the same thread. And as for you charge of hypocrisy – you’re will wide of the mark there. I don’t find the use of the word “twat” (in the context I used it in) to be especially “tasteless”. Rough language doesn’t in itself offend me (though perhaps we’re from different backgrounds) – but when it’s laced with vile prejudice and bigotry it’s a different matter.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
“Nome you seriously need to get laid. Find a whore if you can’t pull a chick by yourself.”
bro – I’ve seen pictures of you – so you probably shouldn’t be going there hey?
January 30th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
“I didn’t invent the term, but is is commonly used on blogs.”
Nice hand wringing there DPF. “All the other boys were doing it too”.
[DPF: Oh poor little Roger. He got called a rude name and is upset. ]
January 30th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
January 30th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Why do some presume that in education just means high schools – it wopuld include tertiary study, polytech and trades apprenticeships/on the job training etc.
January 30th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
wow. prick and twat are not gender referential. that explains a lot.
January 30th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Roger, if you beleive that the term “twat” and “prick” are not gender referential, then there is a glaring gap in your education.
Let me assist.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/twat
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prick
January 30th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Roger, are you in a wheelchair?
You must be getting close, right?
Hard to stand up with all those holes in your feet, ain’t it?
January 30th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
SPC,
Schools will teach nothing.
Tertiary study, polytech etc keeps the young off the dole.
Learning comes from working to find out what a left handed screwdriver and right handed spanner is. It is knowlege passed down from the Tradesman, not a school teacher.
All the polytech courses do is keep the umemployment figures down.
You have to WORK to LEARN.
Roger Nome … fuck off. Want a real job? come see me. You can take out the rubbish instead of spreading it.
Why don’t more kiwibloggers tell the philip john mason wodger knome nome to fuck off??
Advertising space, nothing there except shit stirring from links
[DPF: Steve - please don't advocate anyone telling someone else to eff off]
January 30th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Well said Steve, I agree, but Master DPF welds a big stick around here. So sadly, most of us confirm to his matron type ways
January 30th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Crap.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Steve
You miss the point of the apprenticeships concept – it’s bringing the polytech idea of study designed for a career/trade into the high school system. And it includes part-time study and part-time work – the pilot programmes included learning on the job.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
The Herald deserves some sort of prize for its Tuesday headline
“Key’s speech gets mixed response”
Sheesh. In election year, who could have guessed that response to a political speech could be anything less than unanimous.
To help out the Herald’s obviouslly hard-pressed subeditors, here are a few more suggestions”
“Sun Rises in East then Sets in West”
“Underdog Loses as Expected”
“Day Follow Night and Vice Versa”
“Weather Forecast Not AlwaysAccurate”
January 31st, 2008 at 5:19 am
SPC:
Yes, the apprenticeships concept would be better than normal school classes for people wanting to learn a trade. But the point is that it still forces people to stay in school. No school can cater for everyone in this way – sure they may add a few options but it will never be that great.
However if the teens are just allowed to leave school and go into whatever work or training they feel is best they have a whole wide world open to them. Many will pursue things completely out of the question in school. Schools can never offer every option, and shouldn’t have to try.
The final two years of school are primarily useful to prepare for tertiary study. If you aren’t interested in tertiary study you should be able to go elsewhere.
January 31st, 2008 at 11:54 am
“Roger, if you beleive that the term “twat” and “prick” are not gender referential, then there is a glaring gap in your education.”
I said “gender specific” moron, not gender “referential“. i.e. both women and man are called these terms, thus if they ever had any gendered meaning it’s lost.
January 31st, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Mr Dennis
The advantage of schools and as likely learning centres pooling specialist teachers (useful in areas without polytechs) is that this will allow more people to begin to train for trades than the industry could do so itself. Given the shortage we have, this is not a bad thing.
The requirement to be in some form of training – in school and or on the job is vital to increase worker skills and open up horizons for both workers and the economy.
For many – work part-time and part-time training at school (some working mornings and in school training in the afternoon and others in training in the morning and in work in the afternoon) might be their best option. Espeically before they determine on the choice of career and continue with a full-time apprenticeship or go onto polytech study.
January 31st, 2008 at 11:40 pm
SPC:
“For many – work part-time and part-time training at school (some working mornings and in school training in the afternoon and others in training in the morning and in work in the afternoon) might be their best option.”
For many full-time school may be best, for many full-time work may be best. If people have complete freedom to choose they can choose part-time work and continued training if this is best. Or they can choose full-time work.
Frankly, as far as I can see teenagers who leave school early and go straight into full-time work have a good head start on those who go to tertiary training. I went straight to university, have been there for many years and am now just approaching the end of my PhD. I have no money (and a wife and child to support plus a student loan!), hopefully good job prospects but a long way to catch up. A cousin of mine left school at around 16 years old, has worked for two years (learning skills on the job of course but not in formal training), saved money and is already considering buying a house. By the time he is my age he will be much better off financially than myself now. When will I overtake him financially? When I am 35? 50? Who knows.
The point is that training is great for some people such as myself. For others full-time work is great, and not to be criticised. I sometimes regret not just going straight to work myself. Teenagers need to have full-time employment as an option, and it IS a good option, well worth weighing up against training.