Trotter endorses Goff
The front page of the Otago Daily Times has an internal ad for an inside column with the title “Clark’s leadership will sink Labour”. I turned to page 15 to find out which right ring commentator had done the opinion piece, and found it was Chris Trotter – the same Chris Trotter singing the Labour Party song on stage at their recent conference.
The column is not online yet, but here are some quotes:
But what the gods can give, they can also take away. And it is very difficult to read the events of 2007 as anything other than proof of Euripedes’ observation ‘Those who the gods seek to destroy, they first make mad”.
Trotter then covers the PM’s “sheer political madness” over the anti-smacking legislation. He then moves onto the Electoral Finance Bill:
Instead Miss Clark allowed Mark Burton to introduce the Electoral Finance Bill, a grotesque political cudgel with which Labour will be mercilessly beaten right up until election day in November, probably to death.
Did Chris just call the EFB grotesque?
A worrying large chunk of Labour’s core constituency has become alienated from the Clark-led Government and it is to be seriously doubted whether it can be persuaded to return to the fold while she remains leader.
And finally he concludes:
If the Labour Government is to ave a serious crack at winning a fourth term, it has got to get those voters back. It won’t while Miss Clark is prime minister.
Put Phil Goff in charge and it just might.
I doubt Trotter is personally a Goff fan. He is politically to the left of Labour and far closer to Clark. No one could accuse him of being in the right wing faction of Labour. He is of course not even in Labour.
One can only presume he has written this column because of his genuine belief that Labour under Phil Goff would poll higher, and have a better chance of re-election, than under Helen Clark.
Of course Clark is under no threat at all from her Caucus. But nevertheless Trotter’s column will set some tongues wagging and possibly start some conversations which a year ago would never have happened.
January 25th, 2008 at 9:46 am
“One can only presume he has written this column because of his genuine belief that Labour under Phil Goff would poll higher, and have a better chance of re-election, than under Helen Clark.”
In Trotterski’s mind, anyone is better than Key & Co. Anyone.
My goodness, he even defended Labour’s *right* to be corrupt if it meant defeating *them*.
January 25th, 2008 at 9:57 am
This looks the same as his DomPost column this morning.
I thought it should have been headlined:
DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD!!!!!
January 25th, 2008 at 9:59 am
He is right. The Liberals in Australia should have done the same, and they failed to. They were flogged at the polls. There is some doubt whether a change to Costello would have allowed them to win, but what should have been clear from the outset was that keeping Howard wouldn’t allow them to win.
It is the same here with Labour. Helen can’t win, may as well get rid of her. Goff probably can’t win either, but he at least has a chance.
January 25th, 2008 at 10:01 am
It’s a put up job by Mike Williams to guage public reaction to a change.
Labour knows that H1 needs to go and going into an election with leadership doubts (i.e howard/costello) is a deathwish. They will be starting the ball rolling with this comment/work of fiction by Trotter.
January 25th, 2008 at 10:16 am
So much for Helen’s “we must be positive no matter what”
http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/01/keeping-it-positive.html
Looks as though no-one told Comrade Chris!
January 25th, 2008 at 10:22 am
it’s just chris (‘i don’t credit’) trotter doing the (destabalising) work of/for his rightwing paymasters..
trotter a ‘leftie’..?
don’t make me laugh..!
maybe once..
eh..?
but that was a long time ago..
he has just become a spokesperson/apologist for the bloated ruling classes..
and his words mean ’squat’..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
January 25th, 2008 at 10:25 am
After he sold the store over the “terror” arrests Mr Trotter can hardly be considered part of the left anymore.
It’s a pity of course, but you are welcome to him.
[DPF: Sonic shows his marxist/socialist background here. If you disagree with the "left" on any one issue, you are a heretic and can not be considered correct or part of the left anymore. I could have sworn though that was Chris singing the Labour Party song on the stage at Labour's conference though]
January 25th, 2008 at 10:27 am
You have to love the way the left turn dog on those who dare speak out against dear leader
January 25th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Leftie vs Leftie is such fun! Sonic goes on perpetuating the myth that a terrorist is not a terrorist if one person says so.
January 25th, 2008 at 10:41 am
He did not speak against the goverment when he should have big bruv, thats the point,
January 25th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Seriously though, who listens to Trotter these days. The guy’s just a big self indulgent windbag, who has an annoying propensity to simply talk out his arse/make shit up. Like Sonic indicates, his strangely prejudicial attitude toward the terror raids sank the last of his credibility. I remember reading a column of his in which he created this fantasy og a green NZ militia/terrorist underground, which to him was a natural outcome of the environmentalist movement. It was just bizarre.
January 25th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Ah……a comrade disowned.
The Trotter can now appreciate how the Trotsky felt.
The comrades reserve best vitriol for their class traitors.
Let’s hope there are no brothers bearing ice axes about to kiss him on both cheeks.
If a hopeless leftard like Trotter can start the recovery process there’s hope.
January 25th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Roger Nome: “I remember reading a column of his in which he created this fantasy og a green NZ militia/terrorist underground, which to him was a natural outcome of the environmentalist movement. It was just bizarre.”
When and where was that published? It sounds interesting.
January 25th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Nome – Very much agree. He used to talk some sense (at least his arguments were somewhat rational) but over the past 2 years his comments and columns have become more and more subjective, less and less substantive to the point where he is now looking at a Booker prize for Fiction.
I wonder what happened to him? He used to be a thorn in the side of the right. Now he’s merely a pimple on the bottom of the left.
January 25th, 2008 at 10:47 am
“You have to love the way the left turn dog on those who dare speak out against dear leader”
It did seem that Field’s alleged corruption and total misjudgements were acceptable until he suggested he might not stand again for Labour, and Benson Pope was okay lying to the electorate, but when he didn’t tell Helen the truth, all Hell broke out.
Christ Trotter has probably just totally screwed himself.
January 25th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Wow! Looks like the knives are out!
January 25th, 2008 at 10:49 am
I mean Clark’s election campaign started yesterday with Ratana, and on day 2 this hits the fan?
January 25th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Serioulsy though, this will seal Goff’s political doom – Helen will take him with her if she has to go. Unless there is anything slightly credible about the support he can muster. In the meantime, as I may have predicted last year, Labour are going to spend most of this year putting out fires rather than fightng an election on policy. Serve’s ‘em right.
January 25th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Ooops! – just meant Chris Trotter – not Christ Trotter
- hell, he’s not that good, nor me that bad [to blaspheme]
January 25th, 2008 at 10:54 am
George, here’s the article, and a comment I left on phil’s blog about it..
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4248869a1861.html
(hat-tip phil whoar)
January 25th, 2008 at 10:55 am
`Chris Trotter has probably just totally screwed himself’.
With his physique that would be very difficult if not impossible and not something one would really want to contemplate.
January 25th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Excuse me Nome I recall seeing on the stage at the Labour Party conference singing heartily their theme song just before the last cabinet reshuffle and now you all disowning him.
I cant remember what the song was though maybe “Goff Goff and we’re Off” or “we are gong to lose next year…”
This is very clearly a Party signal that Goff is already tacitly approved by the faithful but Williams himself will have to go otherwise there will be no fresh life in Labour.
January 25th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Chris Trotter’s analysis today looks pretty good. Despite a number of slip-ups in the last year or so, he’s still one of the most astute political commentators that we’ve got. I think it’s a sign of healthy open-minded and critical approach that Trotter is always pissing someone off.
His column this week in the Independent Financial Review (not online) is also well worth a look. Although he doesn’t give Helen Clark the same knee-capping that he does today, he does make the following intelligent observation: ‘the constant accusations and abuse have rendered Clark’s usually formidable political antennae inoperative. Only a prime minister who had lost the plot both strategically and tactically could have come up with something as extravagantly self-defeating as the Electoral Finance Act.’
Other good points he makes is that this Labour Government are essentially still neoliberal and business-friendly: ‘Clark has done her best to delay this process of alienation by steadfastly refusing to alter any of the basic economic settings inherited from her neo-liberal predecessors. The Reserve Bank Act, the Public Sector Finance Act, the State Sector Act, and nearly all of the major privatisations remain in place.’
Despite the general economic conformity of Labour, Trotter says that business has mistakenly rejected Labour: ‘An intelligent capitalist class would have embraced such a government with both arms. Labour’s determination to preserve the key elements of the neo-liberal settlement, while judiciously releasing the social and political pressures that are its inevitable by-products, should have been taken as an open invitation to go on doing well by allowing the Centre-Left to do a little good.’
Bryce
http://www.liberation.org.nz
January 25th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Trolls Divorce Faithful Spouse,
Excuse me Nome I recall seeing on the stage at the Labour Party conference singing heartily their theme song just before the last cabinet reshuffle and now you all disowning him.
I cant remember what the song was though maybe “Goff Goff and we’re Off” or “we are gong to lose next year…”
This is very clearly a Party signal that Goff is already tacitly approved by the faithful but Williams himself will have to go otherwise there will be no fresh life in Labour.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Did Trotter publish his residential address on that piece ?
January 25th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Roger said -
The guy’s just a big self indulgent windbag, who has an annoying propensity to simply talk out his arse/make shit up.
Hmmm………..who does that remind you of?
Self projection Roger?
January 25th, 2008 at 11:09 am
I can see the tui billboards now after Goff’s first speech saying “we’re just genuine caring people who have always had middle NZs interests at heart, really we are”.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Burt – I thought that news paper editorials etc were exempt? Or is that affected by the “solely to inform and entertain” part of the EFA?
January 25th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Cheers CL. Always a pleasure.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:12 am
This is the start of the long goodbye
IMHO Clark wont go before the election and why would Goff want to sup from the poison chalice.
Flick will want to stay where he is until after the Socialists are annihilated and Clark is rolled.
Mind you he wont become PM as he will be retired by the time the Socialists attain the treasury benches.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:16 am
How fascinating. With only one exception (Bryce Edwards) every single lefty commentator has personally attacked Trotter, rather than actually debate the merits of the view he put forward. Not one of them has tried to even address the issue of whether Trotter is wrong or not – they have purely attacked him and denigrated him.
This says a lot about the current siege mentality they are under.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:18 am
<blockquote>Chris Trotter’s analysis today looks pretty good. Despite a number of slip-ups in the last year or so, he’s still one of the most astute political commentators that we’ve got.</blockquote>
Apart from the central thesis of his column. Which is that Labour has more of a shot at a fourth term under Goff. I mean, who’s the preferred prime minister, and has been for almost a decade, by a huge margin none the less? Trotter has a great creative mind, I’ll give him that. But his analytical capabilities seemed to have waned a lot, if they were ever any good.
[DPF: Preferred PM is not the same as whether a party will do better. It is about who will attract the floating voters]
January 25th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Goof replacing clarke is absolutely the worst thing that could happen. it may just give the dykocracy the lift it needs. Oops we would need a new ocracy as well.
Perhaps gingocracy
[DPF: And that's 10 demerits]
January 25th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Just fixed that DPF …
January 25th, 2008 at 11:22 am
“it may just give the dykocracy the lift it needs.”
Is it really kiwiblog’s policy to let this kind of grotesque bigotry slid past unsanctioned? Barnsley Bill, yet another reason why kiwiblog is fast becoming an albatross around the National Party’s neck.
[DPF: I wonder if Roger even believes his parroted lines. Is he trying to convince himself or others?]
January 25th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Prebble’s resignation is now going to give us a clear signal as to how far Clark is prepared to go to politicise the Public Service. Let’s see just how out of touch she now is.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:25 am
“Barnsley Bill, yet another reason why kiwiblog is fast becoming an albatross around the National Party’s neck.”
coming from the kbb/standard types that’s very funny. Given up defending Dixon yet?
January 25th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Wish him luck comrades…..
Trots is at a clinic for recovering statists as we speak.
There’s a 12 step program….his first task is to introduce himself and come to terms with his addiction to other people’s money.
“I’m Chris and I’m a leftard”….
It’s important he has no access to the NZ MSM until he’s clean for a period.
He’ll get used to the body searches looking for hidden Heralds etc.
Our fear here is he’ll relapse.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:26 am
I would think that “dykeocracy” is right up there with “pig fucker”, Nome.
Double Standard perhaps?
January 25th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Stalin would be proud!
January 25th, 2008 at 11:30 am
I don’t think Bryce’s last quote is correct though. I think many in business, especially large business such as those making up the NZBCSD are probably happy with labour (many are SOEs anyway). Their place in the scheme of things is made safe by labour throwing spurious bones to the left and shrinking the economy and taxing middle income people so that it is harder for competitors to set up and get ahead.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Oo, heads up, looks like Mark Prebble is on the way as well! “Retiring” a whole year before his contract expires! New thread please David, this one will be a doozy!
January 25th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Is it really kiwiblog’s policy to let this kind of grotesque bigotry slid past unsanctioned? Barnsley Bill, yet another reason why kiwiblog is fast becoming an albatross around the National Party’s neck.
At least we know who the blogs author is.
BTW, Bill’s got nothing on Robinsod – which IMO is why generating the vast amount of traffice the news coverage about The Double Standard is a good thing, they get to see the kind of scum that support Labour. At hey at least here when a rabid righty pops up, some of us on the more moderate right call them to task. Not our fault though they turn out to be Mr Dixon in disguise…..
January 25th, 2008 at 11:36 am
It was impossible for Mark Prebble to continue after being involved in the coverup of Parker’s abuse of power over the Clare Curran affair. All his credibility throughout the bureaucracy here in Wellington was destroyed.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:39 am
roger nome said “Seriously though, who listens to Trotter these days. The guy’s just a big self indulgent windbag, who has an annoying propensity to simply talk out his arse/make shit up.”
roger – for someone that no-one reads or listens to, he still seems to be the “preferred” commentator from the left when the media needs a sound-bite.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Given the level of Government interferance in the SOE’s (i,e. Electricty commision v Transpower etc), Kevin, one might say they’ve been told to be happy – or “positive” as H1 might say.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:46 am
eger moron, if my use of the term dykocracy upsets you, perhaps not having a look at my blog would be for the best right about now.
Prebble going hmmmm..
I wonder what big fat juicy job they had to give him. He has been a loyal henchman for the gorgon and made the ultimate sacrifice so she can have a fresh start this year…
January 25th, 2008 at 11:47 am
I actually agree with Bryce on this one. Trotter is a very intelligent political commentator with an excellent analysis of social and economic relations in New Zealand as they exist, not as they are portrayed in the media.
However, while Trotter’s big picture analysis is usually very worthwhile I don’t think he’s quite as good on the political strategy. As much as I agree with him on Clark’s mishandling of the S.59 and EFA debacles she’s still Labour’s greatest asset, and I think that will become clearer as the election campaign nears.
If Clark and her team lift their game they’re still in with a fighting chance. Installing Goff at this stage would look desperate and effectively seal their fate.
[DPF: And just to seal the axis of unlikely alliances, I agree. She had made some big errors, but Goff would look desperate and not work. And the result is still competitive even though National are of course in the stronger position.
What Labour should have done is make Goff Finance Minister in the reshuffle. He would be able to deliver tax cuts with a credibility Cullen can not]
January 25th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Tane – perhaps Goff’s about to make a play for the leadership and Trotter’s been trottered out to forestall any such Bainimarama-like effort on the leadership? Getting a punch in early before any coup was made would, tactically at least, be preferrable to being blindsided.
I know Big Mike W went over to Aus for their election – so I’m sure that he wouldn’t make such a large tactical error as changing leader now.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:53 am
damning praise from tane. Ha ha.
Tane everything they have done since before the last election has smacked of “looking desperate” Up to and including theft of public money to fund their last election campaign.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:58 am
I think the only hope she has now is calling an early election and therefore re-empting a Goff coup.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Tane, if Helen is Labour’s biggest asset, then Labour has major problems. Muldoon used to be the National Party’s biggest asset – and quickly became its biggest liability. Deja vu?
January 25th, 2008 at 11:59 am
If Clark and her team lift their game they’re still in with a fighting chance. Installing Goff at this stage would look desperate and effectively seal their fate.
Much like transfering an Internet site off a particular server when you get caught engaging in underhanded Exclusive Brethren like tactics, instead of just owning up and coming clean about your political connections and who you are?
January 25th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
As much as I agree with him on Clark’s mishandling of the S.59 and EFA debacles…
the rats are deserting the ship at last…
January 25th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Ya know, just comparing desperate tactics and all…..
January 25th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Oh dear it seems I’ve upset poor wee bill. He just can’t help but let his ugly, angry and ignorant bigotry bubble to the surface for all to see hey? Keep fighting the good fight you long-suffering, disenfranchised white male employer you!
January 25th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Also Roger Nome excuse my ignorance but what is the offense in dykocracy?
January 25th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
the rats are deserting the ship at last…
Never fear buggerlugs, there bound to be a “But National would be worse” somewhere along the lines.
January 25th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
And Muldoon was National’s in 1984 – which was reflected in the result of the snap election that year, don’t you think? I’m sorry to disappoint Tane here, but nobody in National thinks they’re going to ’sleepwalk’ to victory this year and anyone who underestimates Clark is a bleeding idiot who deserves all they get.
Labour, however, really needs to have a good hard think about running the campaign along ‘presidential’ lines. I’d say, without any partisanship involved, is that it’s risky; it almost failed in ‘05. The Teflon Lady is starting show a few scratches, just as Muldoon eventually found that the line between ’strong leadership’ and ‘out of touch bully’ is a very fine one indeed.
January 25th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
“And Muldoon was National’s in 1984 – which was reflected in the result of the snap election that year, don’t you think?”
Muldoon’s health was failing as his alcoholism was getting the better of him. Don’t think there’s too much of comparison to be had actually.
January 25th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Kevin – I strongly agree with you (and just about made a similar point when I posted the quote). There really is no significant business backlash against the Labour Government. And if you look back to the last couple of elections you can find all sorts of business polls and statements that show that mainstream business were happy enough with the Government. Much of the left instead listen to the rantings of the Business Roundtable and other marginal “old Establishment” figures and somehow mistakenly think that they represent business. The left (and maybe the right) really need to get their heads around the fact that the BRT are yesterday’s men (and women).
Bryce
http://www.liberation.org.nz
January 25th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
I was sanguine about the EFB/EFA for precisely this reason … it’s the albatross that will kill Labour in the 2008 election. I think Trotter’s right in saying that (i) Helen’s lost her political touch, and (ii) Labour will lose the 2008 election with her as leader.
But I just don’t see that Goff (or Mallard or Shane Jones or …) can turn that around. They’re too far back and, most importantly, they’ve lost too much goodwill from voters.
Trotter’s brave to pop his head above the left-wing parapet and say the Queen has no clothes. But he’s deluding himself if he thinks any of the princes-in-waiting can stop John Key taking the 2008 election.
January 25th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
“Much of the left instead listen to the rantings of the Business Roundtable and other marginal “old Establishment” figures and somehow mistakenly think that they represent business.”
I agree Bryce, though you still keep on seeing their names appear as major financial backers of the National Party, and other right wing political organisations like the “Free Speech Coalition”. So while, as you say they don’t necessarily represent the “mainstream NZ business community” (i.e. most businesses in NZ are small whereas amongst the NZBRT are the CEOs of NZ’s biggest companies) they are still a major force in NZ politics.
January 25th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Well, Nome, as I’ve not had the dubious pleasure of assessing the physical or mental health of either Clark or Muldoon, (and wouldn’t be violating patient confidentiality if I had), I’m not going there. But you’ve dodged the point I was making about the diminishing returns of turning a political party into a personality cult, and campaigning as such. Rob’s Mob were pretty thin on the ground in ‘84, as I recall.
January 25th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Its funny that so many of the “blatherings” of the right are for small business and innovative workers who want to be free to compete with established big business. Lets face it guys Labour relies heavily on big business to pay its bills.
January 25th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
“Also Roger Nome excuse my ignorance but what is the offense in dykocracy?”
Firstly, The “Dyke” is a term that’s often (thought not always) used in a pejorative way to describe a woman that likes to get it on exclusively with other women. I don’t think that there can be any doubt that Bill intended to use it in the pejorative sense (it’s clearly intended as an attack on the government). So for some reason Bill thinks it’s a bad thing to be a lesbian, yet you won’t ever see him give a reason for this, they’re just “bad”, and that’s all there is to it. Secondly, it involves an assumption about the sexuality of the leading women in labour (aside from H2), further revealing the prejudice involved in the term. Thirdly, uses of the term often seem to be assuming that, just because there a few women in positions of power in NZ, that systematic male power doesn’t exist – which is rubbish – i.e. two thirds of employers are male, and about two thirds of our MPs are male. You could look into judges etc and find the same pattern no doubt etc ….. Men still hold the most of the power in NZ.
Basically it’s a hateful term used by ignorant people. Hope that helps.
January 25th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
“Muldoon’s health was failing as his alcoholism was getting the better of him.”
ok, equally…
“Hulun’s teeth are failing and her dykism is getting the better of her”
Hope that helps.
January 25th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Goff wouldn’t want the job before the election and no one (not even Chris Trotter) is going to make him take it.
Leadership now is a poison chalice that requires stumping for the merit of bad Labour legacies (s59, EFA). He will prefer not to lead a lost cause.
By defering till after the election Phil Goff gains so much. If Labour loses he is the next leader of the opposition. If Labour scrapes a marginal win he is most likely our next PM, as Helen Clark is almost certain to be cast out before 2011. Only if Helen secures a landslide will he be denied leadership.
January 25th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Goff will just wait until the PM gets outed in the election and simply take over then . Klark has tried to hobble him bi giving him Korrektions but unless Burton escapes again FillGoff will be the man for a change
January 25th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Clark does register highly in the PM popularity poll, but as discussed before this is largely irrelevant.
More interesting would be a “who is your most disliked politician poll?”.
I suggest Clark and Cullen would top this. They are polarising poltiticians, like Muldoon, Thatcher and Keating.
I imagine that Labour’s own internal polling is telling them there is a large portion of the electorate who may vote Labour but will not this time because they steadfastly have had enough of Clark and Cullen. I think they realise there is little they can do to change this perception.
Sure changing PM 12 months within a poll rarely helps…..but
The conservatives looked like certain goners in late 1990, when Major took over from thatcher. Come 1992, he won a second term
In fact Goff looks a little like Major!
January 25th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Tane
Perhaps he is intelligent by your standards…. He’s a twit. No intelligent person would even think that rorting the electoral process for the good of the country was acceptable…. But I guess if I was wearing a lefty hat I would call that intelligent comment as well because it would agree with my own f-ed up view of “Labour good – National bad”.
January 25th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Tane
Why don’t you post about it on the standard – or is it too slow for you now that it’s been moved off the Labour server – Oh and BTW: What’s your residential address and full name ?
January 25th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Roger nome – I honestly don’t perceive that the BRT et al “are still a major force in NZ politics”. Instead they’re utterly discredited. They have as much influence as the Act party have electoral support. And if you want an indication of how excluded the BRT are, remember back to about 2001 (or whenever) when poor old Roger Kerr was reduced to having to hand out leaflets outside the Government’s summit/discussions with business! The donations that people like Kerr make are trivial and probably rather embarrassing to any recipients. He’s a throwback from the 80s and 90s that will be unlikely to be given any time of day by the next (highly pragmatic) National administration.
We have a *new* Establishment today. Check out the Listener’s annual Power List (which is far from perfect, but still indicative of interesting trends) and my blog post from last year on Who Runs New Zealand?”
http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2007/09/who-runs-new-ze.html
You’ll see that the real businesspeople and Establishment figures of influence are actually the more pragmatic and modern types such as Stephen Tindall, John Barnett, Phil O’Reilly, Geoffrey Palmer, Craig Norgate, and David Skilling.
Bryce
http://www.liberation.org.nz
January 25th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
“Also Roger Nome excuse my ignorance but what is the offense in dykocracy?”
roger nome provided such a poor answer:
This is a common form of pejorative language where the “demos” in democracy is replaced by a descriptor that makes a regime non-democratic and corrupt – other examples include theocracy (Iran) and kleptocracy (various African states). The reason that “dykocracy” is so offensive is because of the pejorative way it is used to associate lesbians and lesbian relationships with an out of touch, insular, clique of powerful who influence this government.
January 25th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Tane says: “If Clark and her team lift their game they’re still in with a fighting chance.”
Tane, you are “Clark’s team”. You work along the corridor from her in the Beehive, remember.
Sheesh. The Standard crew (aka The Ninth Floor) really take everyone for fools.
January 25th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Trotter is old school, he can’t survive in todays world. He made his name in the days when he carefully crafted his opinions and dressed them up as facts. These ‘opinions’ were then published in conventional papers and people read them. Then if people objected to what he said and were very motivated they would write letters to the editor. Some days latter the editor might print some of them, and they might not – depending on their world view and their mood on the day. If letters were published – days later – most people would have forgotten what the spin-puppet actually said in the first place.
In the blog world Trotter would be slaughtered. He wouldn’t last a week. Too many people with enough knowledge of what he was spinning as fact would shoot him down in milliseconds and he would look like the fool he really is.
January 25th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
“We have a *new* Establishment today. Check out the Listener’s annual Power List (which is far from perfect, but still indicative of interesting trends) and my blog post from last year on Who Runs New Zealand?”
I’m sure many of those business people have a lot of “latent” political power, but it’s a whether they choose to get involved in th game in any meaningful way that will ultimately define their influence. The Hollow men gave the impression that it was the far-right of the business community that were most engaged in the the 2005 election. Whether it will be the same in the next election, i don’t really know, but i don’t see why not.
January 25th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
unaha-closp said:
“The reason that “dykocracy” is so offensive is because of the pejorative way it is used to associate lesbians and lesbian relationships with an out of touch, insular, clique of powerful who influence this government”.
If for a moment we disregard the offensive connotations of some of words used, isn’t it a fairly accurate description of the current state of affairs. It is certainly how former insider John Tamihere portrayed it.
January 25th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Blog posting 101 by Roger Numb: Power blah blah Hollow Men blah blah money blah blah votes blah blah unfair blah blah…ad infinitum
January 25th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Burt – I don’t want to become the default defender of Chris Trotter (!) on here, but are you sure that you don’t underestimate him? I’d be on of the first to disagree with Trotter on many things (and I have indeed done so on my blog) but he’s no fool and is incredibly agile in terms of politics. In fact one of my (constructive) criticisms of him would be that he’s *too* agile – he moves about too much.
Trotter might come from the old school of print journalism, but I reckon he’d flourish online if only he could make that jump. But, in all seriousness, who do you you rate as political commentators in NZ? And I’m not just asking you to name those from your own side of the political divide – that would be too boring.
Bryce
http://www.liberation.org.nz
January 25th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Political commentators in NZ? John Armstrong. Daylight to the rest.
January 25th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
altho liberation.org.nz is a very well-thought out and often interesting read, Bryce.
January 25th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
unaha-closp Says:
January 25th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
‘Leadership now is a poison chalice that requires stumping for the merit of bad Labour legacies (s59, EFA). He will prefer not to lead a lost cause.’
That’s why Maharey jumped ship.
This whole thing does smack of the Labour Party playing musical chairs, and there may be more than one seat pulled out from under them when the music stops….
January 25th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Bryce
I think anybody who says (or tries to convince others) that it’s OK to rort the democratic process to ensure a particular party retains power should be called a partisan hack. Partisan hacks are not political commentators.
Trotter would have been spitting tacks if the shoe was on the other foot and National won the election after spending $800K of stolen money, or had made up vote buying policy on the fly to capture the missing support demographic. – This is one example of the many “Labour good – National bad” crapola opinion pieces the twat has published over the years. He has a high degree of skill as a wordsmith, I’ll give him that, but he’s myopic and this is where he looses credibility.
Of course under the old regime he could keep repeating the same lies week after week in the MSM and people would start to believe them – in the blog world he would just get shot down on the continuous repetition of talking points like the partisan hacks who run the standard do.
How often has Trotter taken the “others did it too” line to justify the foul deeds of his glorious Labour party? This is juvenile logic which when crafted in some clever words actually makes people think the bad deeds were OK. Convincing people that what a party did was OK because ‘other parties also did it’ is hackery – a ‘commentator’ would skilfully point out that all parties who crossed the line should be held to account – not fob it off with a softly spoken “move on”.
I guess I should possibly re-word what I said, I actually agree he’s not a complete fool as such, he’s just a hack who has survived because he’s never really been challenged on his opinions dressed as facts presented in a non interactive medium. If I had suggested that Goff should replace H1 most people would call me a nutcase for suggesting a leadership change so soon before an election, just as Trotter deserves to be called a nutcase for this piece. The thing is Bryce, I think it would be excellent if H1 stood down before the election, but that’s not going to make me say Trotter is on the money and sing his praise. Just like the leftards who normally hold him up as an example of great commentary have abandoned him over this piece – they are showing they are partisan hacks who probably only normally like him because he says things they want to hear.
Your other question: I don’t think we have any “good” political commentators in NZ, they are all by and large partisan and that is where they start to fall into the hack category. I could name some that I agree with more often than not, just like I could name some I seldom agree with, but that’s just my political perspective, something I by and large try to keep out of judging the deeds of politicians.
January 25th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Burt – I agree with your criticism about the “courageous corruption” line of argument that Trotter used. I can imagine he deeply regrets such a silly argument. It seems to be haunting him! I wouldn’t be surprised to see him rethink his whole EFA position – actually lately he’s been somewhat more negative about the legislation. “Grotesque” is a pretty strong (and appropriate) word to use, you must admit!
And I agree with your point about his “Labour good – National bad” approach. Although I’d also point out that this has only been a more recent line of argument of the last year or two. He didn’t use to think that way at all. But in general I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a political commentator being partisan or clearly leftwing or clearly rightwing. In fact I appreciate these different points of view. Don’t you?
For what it’s worth, I’d also be quite critical of the quality of media political commentators in NZ, but off the top of my head, I’m always very interested to read Trotter, Colin James, Matt McCarten, Jane Clifton, and Audrey Young.
Bryce
http://www.liberation.org.nz
January 25th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Regardless of his ideological purity as perceived by the brainwashed in the trenches, Trotter remains well-connected by personal ties going back decades to people who understand and love power and are very adept at attaining and retaining it as an end in itself (and they’ll throw in just enough socialism to keep those in the trenches working to keep them in power).
Thus if Trotter flies a kite, it’s a kite that’s been very carefully assembled from string and brown paper supplied by other people… people very keen to see how far the kite flies before being rained upon.
In other words, ‘comrade’ or no, something is up.
January 25th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Labour were wrong to put the EFA through
one good reason.
If they wanted payback on the EBs they
should have dumped all favours that all
cults get.
Such as not paying rates etc.
Gone after any business that the EBs get
through any goverment spending.
In other words they were too bloody wimpy
about putting the boot in.
Pointing out the Ebs are a bunch of whites
who want special favours would have
gone well.
January 25th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Bryce
Absolutely, but I call them PR people, not comentators. A comentator will call the score as it is, not how they want it to be.
grumpyoldhori
One rule for all is apparently racist…. don’t get me started!
January 25th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
What Rex said……
January 25th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
grumpyoldhori
That is called persecution and it isn’t overly popular. Last time I recall the government targetted any group with its power was when Labour confiscated the foreshore. At the time I was with most every other white guy in the country and thought that was a pretty good idea, but later on I find myself less keen to have a government that operates that way.
January 25th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
grumpy-u live up toyour name dont u ! How do you think Maori members of the EB would feel about your narsty comments? I bet the EB pay zillions more in taxes than they get in alleged favours.Have you been taking lessons from the Brethren haters in Cabinet- or r u one of them?
January 25th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
I am of the view that there are few, if any, political commentators worthy of the name in New Zealand.Those that do proffer comment are often far too partisan to be taken seriously e.g. Hooton, McCarten, Coddington,Trotter and James.
This situation is in part due to the poor standard of the media generally and the increasingly low level of reporting skills evident.
January 25th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
grumpyoldhori: Gone after any business that the EBs get through any goverment spending.
Wow. Did you just seriously suggest that the government should persecute and harass those it disagrees with?
January 25th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Is trotts on a deathwish, he may as well cut his own throat. Surly comments like his would be like sticking a stick in a wasps nest. Shit Dear Leader and the ninth floor will be spewing. I assume he enjoys tip bits thrown from those up high, will those in the know get the hard word to treat trotts like a leper. Mr Trottor may have made himself irrelevant.
January 25th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
what’s to critique in trotters’ drivel/exercise in auto-eroticism….?
goff as leader..?
yeah right..!..
he wants ‘to do a mike moore’..?
doubt it..eh..?
as i said..what’s to critique in the stuff trotter blows out his butt..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
January 25th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Grumpy, and here’s me thinking that they would be doing exactly just that. I think we all expect and deserve a level playing field.
January 25th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Mr Trotter, it seems to me, is a professional windbag.
When I hear him talk on the radio, he has nothing to say. And he goes on saying it. He appears intoxicated by the sound of his own voice.
Then he follows up in writing, peppered at times with what I imagine we are expected to accept as erudite and profound quotes.
Its all shallow, flabby and self-serving stuff. He does it, I suppose, for the money. It pays the bills.
Oh, one other thing while we are on this subject. Mr Trotter seems to think he’s ‘on the left’. When I stop laughing at that idea, I can only feel sorry for the left and start looking for some relief from a principled, articulate and coherent ‘right’.
I’m still looking.
January 26th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
chris ‘there’s green/brown bogey-men in the bush..mummy..!) trotter..
eh..?
(heh-heh..!..)
numbnuts to the right of me..!
numbnuts to the ‘left’(?) of me..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
January 28th, 2008 at 2:15 am
Having read the various posts on this Kiwiblog in general; if Helen Clark and Labour are not re elected I can only believe that Kiwis want to return to a National led government that espouses pay as you use, high tax returns to business and all tax reduced to high income earners that will still want free hospital care and free education, 3 jobs for the poor (cheap labour is their mantra) and the most tax paid by the middle income earners.
If Kiwis want that particular New Zealand fine. If they want to retain Helen Clark and Labour and inclusive government which tries to give every New Zealander a decent and inclusive life in their own country, then they won’t want Phil Goff at this time, because if he is hacked in at this time in 2008, then Labour will lose. Chris Trotter knows this. Therefore, Chris Trotter hates Helen Clark, he is a National Supporter or he is a Phil Goff supporter. He has an agenda.