Getting our news from China
Kiwis have found out that the New Zealand – China Free Trade Agreement will be signed in April.
How did we find out? Because the Chinese Government is more open about these things, than our NZ Govt.
Hat Tip: The Hive
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February 14th, 2008 at 10:46 am
good ‘breaking’ story..eh..?
i’ve linked/tipped..
mainstream media left flat-footed..
yet again..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
February 14th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Philu
You should say the New Zealand Goverment left flat footed.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Uh except it was mentioned in the Sept 07 update from MFAT
“The leadership of both countries reaffirmed their intention to conclude a comprehensive, high quality and balanced agreement as soon as possible by April 2008. “
http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Trade-and-Economic-Relations/Trade-Agreements/China/0-infobulletinseptember2007.php
[DPF: Saying that April is a target date to finish negotiations is different to announcing a date has been confirmed for signing]
February 14th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Yet again!!!!
February 14th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Yup, well done in pipping the MM. They’re too busy sifting thru their AP releases.
..and yup, Helen Klark, first in the western world to sign a free trade agreement with the commie thug army generals who rule China, those anti-democratic scum who lock up political dissenters, shut down internet sites, contaminate the Olympic games with clamps on free speech and who committed the Tiananmen square atrocities. Just the kind of people that Klark would feel at home with. I’ll bet she and her army general buddies waxed enthusiastically till the early morning about the EFB.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Because the Chinese Government is more open about these things, than our NZ Govt.
David, that’s the worst dog whistle I’ve seen you do in a while. You’ve made your point with the FSC billboards – restrictions on election spending are as bad as imprisoning journalists, executing dissidents and harvesting people’s organs.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:01 am
“..I’ll bet she and her army general buddies waxed enthusiastically till the early morning about the EFB..”
(heh-heh..!..)
sometimes you just take things ‘to another level’..
eh red..?
‘shine on etc..”
phil(whoar.co.nz)
February 14th, 2008 at 11:06 am
David, that’s the worst dog whistle I’ve seen you do in a while. You’ve made your point with the FSC billboards – restrictions on election spending are as bad as imprisoning journalists, executing dissidents and harvesting people’s organs.
You must be pissed then that you beloved Labour party has been cuddling up to them and cutting a free trade deal to boot.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:13 am
“Trade is more important than democracy in putting food on the tables of the needy nations.” – Don McKinnon, CHOGM, December 2005
February 14th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Yes Bevan: Chinese Govt and NZ Labour/NZ First Govt = birds of a feather
February 14th, 2008 at 11:25 am
“… Chinese Govt and NZ Labour/NZ First Govt = birds of a feather”
Rats from the same sewer is a more apt description.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Makes me want to go play my sandbox trading games
February 14th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Tane said “You’ve made your point with the FSC billboards – restrictions on election spending are as bad as imprisoning journalists, executing dissidents and harvesting people’s organs.”
Wow – you agree now then Tane!! Glad to see you’ve “crossed over”!!!!!
February 14th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Tane needs to learn the difference between open and repressive.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:49 am
David, it’s just not that black and white. Your attempts to portray reasonable campaign spending restrictions in a democratic society as akin to a murderous dictatorship is absurd, and it’s doing your public reputation no favours.
[DPF: Tane thinks I am profoundly stupid in asserting that he genuinely cares for my public reputation. He is desperately trying to divert the thread from the actual issue. The Chinese Government has less secrecy around the FTA with New Zealand than the NZ Government. Does Tane not agree this is a bad thing?]
February 14th, 2008 at 11:56 am
“Your attempts to portray reasonable campaign spending restrictions in a democratic society as akin to a murderous dictatorship is absurd,”
What rubbish. This is about graduailization. A slow but sure shut down of alternative veiews and dissent, and eventual complete totalitarianism. The Chinese Communists use heavy handed methods. The left in NZ use more sophisticated methods. The objective tho is the same.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Ah but at least DPF has a public reputation.
Who are you Tane?
February 14th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
“Ah but at least DPF has a public reputation.”
Yes, and with a level of repute that far exceeds that of Helen Klark.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
David, it’s just not that black and white. Your attempts to portray reasonable campaign spending restrictions in a democratic society as akin to a murderous dictatorship is absurd, and it’s doing your public reputation no favours.
And here I thought his post was about the NZ – China FTA. Let me ask you, does readin internet comments through left wing blinkers make phils post remotely intelligible?
February 14th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Tane – `reasonable campaign spending’
is but one issue of the EFA. The withdrawal of Freedom of speech is also one – and a major one at that.
Every day of this corrupt government aligns NZ closer to China, Cuba and Zimbabwe.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Yes, I remember the Aotea Square massace like it was yesterday – when the evil “Klark” sent in the tanks to run over the dissenters, and then her infantry to mop up the survivors. You just don’t hear much about it now, because her state-controlled media totally suppressed the story.
Oh no, wait on…
Take it easy with your similies and comparisons, peeps, or you will create the impression that you are HYSTERICAL, RAVING NUTTERS!!!
February 14th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
oooooo CAPS!
February 14th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
“Take it easy with your similies and comparisons..”
That’s your problem RRM: you’re prepared to put up with ever dimisnishing freedoms, like the frog in the water that doesn’t notice the temperature is increasing degree by degree until is too hot … and too late.
The totalitarian aspirations of this socialist government must be curbed and confronted by the sentient population.
Those like yourself, Labour supporters and the like, who are ready to accept the status quo do so at their own peril
February 14th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Manolo: tin foil hat.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Ooh, actually you’re right, I think I hear the crunching of jackboots and the clatter of tank tracks now. How silly of me to be so complacent.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
rebaiter said..
“..“Ah but at least DPF has a public reputation.”
Yes, and with a level of repute that far exceeds that of Helen Klark…”
aww..!!..eh..?
shall we pass the hat around..?
so they can ‘get a room’..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
February 14th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Tane: Thin end of the wedge.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Tane: KFC bucket hat.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
ooo..!..manolo is back..!
and he’s similieing..
and..
“..The totalitarian aspirations of this socialist government must be curbed and confronted by the sentient population.“
um..!..is manolo calling for the cows and pigs to ‘rise up..!’..?
ah..!..what is a day without a manoloism..eh..?
he ‘does such things to’/'takes such liberties with’..the new zeanad language..
eh..?
bless him..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
February 14th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Fill-ewe: what are you trying to say?
February 14th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
“Fill-ewe: what are you trying to say?”
Like he would know?
February 14th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Pardon my ignorance on this matter but can you enlighten me and other readers please.
If the government signs NZ up to a treaty with Communist China in April, and has not revealed to the people of NZ yet what is in this agreement, does this mean that we the people of NZ have no say in this matter ?
I have grave fears that this government has signed us up to a relationship with a communist autocracy which will undermine our sovereignty, our jobs and many other considerations.
When do we the people have any say in this ?
February 14th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
To your disappointment whoar, I never left.
As per your latest illegible posting, I reckon you have to take it easy on the double scotch while smoking that Jamaican stuff. Do it for the enviroment
February 14th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
richgraham
Please don’t ask questions like this.
Dear leader knows best
You just keep paying your tax and filling the trough.
Wait to see what China gives us for ‘Free”
February 14th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
” Wang Xinpei, MOC spokesman, said at a press conference”
A press conference I assume was not attended by the NZ press?
Nothing secret here, just our lazy journos.
February 14th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Sonic may well be correct- what journalist has been following the story [as opposed to rewriting the press releases]?
February 14th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
OF COURSE the Chinese Commies would spread THIS news rather than suppress it. Their very, very good friend Helen Clark has just delivered THEM a propaganda coup.
February 14th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Tane: KFC bucket hat.
And Manolo continues his racism. Classy brother, classy. I’d have thought with your Peruvian background you’d know better, but apparently not.
February 14th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Tane: KFC bucket hat.
And Manolo continues his racism. Classy brother, classy. I’d have thought with your Peruvian background you’d know better, but apparently not.
How the hell is that racist? Or do you just label anything as such to get out of forming a viable arguement?
February 14th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Hi Tane, still blaming me for everything going wrong over at the finger licking sub standard sewer plant blog snog ?You lefty twitters are so cowardly! STOP playing the racism card. Billy T would be ashamed of you.
What a cocklehead as you wouldn’t know real racism if it smacked you on the bum.
February 14th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Tane – you have very thin skin for someone who likes to spray it about as much as you do!
February 14th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Redbaiter, graduailization, thin end of the wedge, the slippery slope, whatevever cliche you want to use, people use them as an argument against anything and everything for which there is no real evidence.
Nice try though.
February 14th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Wait for your salaries to drop , when the witch allows thousands of commies to stream in lowering our pathetic wages even more , ps why pay a IT plebe x dollars when a chinese will do it less for the motherland and the party.We might even hear the liarbor supporters start worring when the red chinese hords do you work for far less and you are out on the street?Fantasey, do you lot really trust that lying witch that rules us, chck out her lying/FIB tract record. she would sell NZ down the road to get into the UN.
February 14th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
john..!..whoar..!
been a bit of pressure building up there for awhile..?..has there..?
do you feel better now..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
February 14th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
“Nice try though.”
Nope. A reference to Gramsci. You need to look him up.
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a4c610569be.htm
Read that and enlightenment will come.
February 14th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
“Nice try though.”
Nope- a reference to Gramsci.
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a4c610569be.htm
Read there, and enlightenment will come.
February 14th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
test
February 14th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
test 2
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a4c610569be.htm
February 14th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
“Nice try though”
Nope- You’re wrong. I refer you to Mr. Gramsci-
From a link I am for some reason unable to post-
———————————————————
So what is Gramsci all about? Well, let s start with his concept of “hegemony” a word frequently used by people not noted for their love of hundred dollar words. For Gramsci ,”hegemony” is not mere dominance by force. Rather, it is the set of ideas by which dominant groups in a society secure the consent of subordinate groups to their rule.
Note the emphasis on consent. A governing class must succeed in persuading the governed to accept the moral, political and cultural values suggested by those in power. Gramsci noted that this is the way “bourgeois societies” ruled. Extreme measures were only used when there was rebellion against the established mores.
Therefore his conclusion was: Let s do the same and capture the minds of the population, as well as the institutions of the bourgeoisie and do it with ideas that we will present as “common sense”. The implementation will be through intellectuals and figures of influence gained to the cause by vanity, convenience or ambition and a by a new element, intellectual operatives that work with the people. All of it, coupled to constant use of the media.
In his words: “the mode of being of the new intellectual can no longer consist in eloquence & but in active participation in practical life, as constructor, organizer, “permanent persuader” and not just a simple orator&”
Gramsci understood what Marx did not understand: Economic crises by themselves would not subvert capitalism, because capitalism always managed to overcome the crises and emerged stronger. Another theory was necessary for a different reality. One that recognized the importance of culture and ideology, and methods that went beyond the coarser forms of Marxist class struggle. Methods that would be efficient in capturing power in a western society. Methods that would fit the use of mass media because they were subtle and persuasive. If you gain the minds you gain the bodies. Even a partial victory is useful, because it weakens and diminishes your opposition.
The revolutionaries who wished to break the “hegemony” had to build up a “counter hegemony” to that of the ruling class. It was necessary to change the minds, to change the popular consensus, to change the way institutions work. In sum, to make the people question the right of their leaders to rule in the accepted way.
Success would consist in permeating throughout society a whole new system of values, beliefs and morality. A system that would become accepted by all in a way that would appear to be the normal thing to do.
How is it done? Besides the traditional intellectuals (those who see themselves as such) there must exist the “organic intellectual”, i.e. the one that grows with a social group, and becomes its thinking and organizing element. The role of informal “educators” in local communities becomes essential. The educator must not be seen as a distant “brainy” figure but as “one of us”, one of the neighborhood, another one of the group.
The same applies to the schools which Gramsci sees as a means used by social groups “to perpetuate a function, [namely] to rule or to be subordinate”. Ergo, schools and curriculums must be controlled either directly or indirectly.
Once organized these groups would engage in incessant political activity and use massive means of communication. No armed conspiracies, just unrelenting propaganda. The introduction of Gramscian methodology in society, produces a constant clash for supremacy of ideas and a patient but persistent subversion of the building blocks of that society. Subversion is a many faced endeavor played by different people with different objectives but the modern method has a substantial Gramscian content.
Remind you of anything Andrew?
February 14th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Redbaiter, 5 tries this time, even nicer.
Remind you of anything Andrew?
Yep, sure does.
My point: there are many wedges that have never been driven home. There are many slippery slopes with nothing at the bottom. I agree that there are situations where the metaphor works, but it get overused and is false more often than not.
February 14th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
RRM “Ooh, actually you’re right, I think I hear the crunching of jackboots and the clatter of tank tracks now. How silly of me to be so complacent.”
Pretty dumb thing to say given what’s gone down here in the last year, confident about the upcoming trials are we??
February 14th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
so what is in the FTA that the govt doesn’t want us to know about?
We will make a nice little addition to their pacific empire. Definitely no more ANZUS after this.
They have been working as hard as the Americans to secure their resources just they haven’t been as stupid as the yanks. The Chinese have spread their influence by generously spreading their money through grants and business deals.
If you read some Chinese history their empire was at it’s largest (outside Mongol invasion) when they used trade as an expansionist tool.
The best part will be watching the gymnastics of the socialists supporters, labour and greens.
February 15th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Kiki said: “so what is in the FTA that the govt doesn’t want us to know about? We will make a nice little addition to their pacific empire. Definitely no more ANZUS after this.”
Australia is also working towards an FTA with China – so this is irrelevant to ANZUS. Also Chile (who is part of the P4 agreement which the US is considering joining) already has an FTA with China.
You can read all about the negotiations at http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Trade-and-Economic-Relations/Trade-Agreements/China/0-infobulletinseptember2007.php
There is no great conspiracy on this – the information is available if you look, and National have said it will support the FTA if it is of a “high quality”. The interesting thing will be how Winston votes.
February 15th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
That article about Gramsci that you link to, and your precis, is good stuff, Redbaiter. Thank you. EVERYBODY READ IT, PLEASE!
By the way, Tane, if Manolo is a Peruvian, no wonder he hates Communism so much. You can’t suck in people who’ve seen too much.