E-mail Thieves got away with it
NZPA reports:
Police have given up hunt for the person behind the theft of former National Party leader Don Brash’s emails.
An investigation into the theft had closed, Wellington police district crime services manager Detective Inspector Harry Quinn said.
It had not identified those responsible.
“How the thefts occurred still largely remains a mystery,” Mr Quinn said.
“We have eliminated the suggestion that an external ‘computer hacker’ had breached the computer security within Parliament, but there remains many other potential ways in which the crimes could have occurred.”
The investigation established that emails created between October 2003 and November 2005 had been stolen from the ownership of Dr Brash, but found no evidence of thefts since November 2005.
Mr Quinn would not speculate on how he thought the emails had been taken from Dr Brash.
“There are strong indications that the emails were in printed form at the time of the theft, but with the thefts perhaps happening at any time over the two-year period it is very likely that they were stolen during several incidents,” he said.
Police interviewed parliamentary computer staff, parliamentary security staff, cleaners, Dr Brash’s staff, politicians, journalists and friends of Dr Brash.
“Many of them had their own theories on who was responsible and why the thefts had occurred,” said Mr Quinn.
“But in the end no firm evidence pointing to a potential perpetrator was uncovered. The file is closed until someone comes forward with some compelling evidence.”
Interesting that they think printed e-mails were stolen, rather than an electronic copy. If so then that is beyond doubt a criminal act.
April 16th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
When it rhymes with Hill it might be ………….?
April 16th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
A criminal act if the person who leaked the mails did not have legitimate access to them.
Now who inside the National party would have a motive to bring down Don Brash so they could replace him with a better leader?
Sorry wrong question.
Who inside the National party would not have a motive?
April 16th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
I know Brenden- power bill.
April 16th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
I’m curious about the finding that there are “strong indications that the emails were in printed form” when stolen. How would they form that opinion on the basis of what they had? Of course they would have been printed at some point, but what makes them think that point was before the theft?
April 16th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Nicky Hagar is now demanding an apology from National.
http://stuff.co.nz/4483002a6160.html
So, if he knows who it was, then did he give that info to the police. That would have saved a lot of time….
April 16th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
The police said they didn’t know how the THEFTS were done, not how the LEAKS occurred.
April 16th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Not criminal act if the person had legitimate access to them
IT WAS AN INSIDE JOB.
And antional sticks it head into the sand as yet slippery “doesnt want to go into” why his theory is still has credibility. It figures
April 16th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
of course it was an inside job..
and therefor..as far as hagar is concerned..
a totally ‘legal’ leak..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
April 16th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
The police have said that e-mails were stolen. Nicky Hager received stolen property. He has refused to disclose the source of the stolen property he received (so much for Green ethics eh!). Why is Hager not being prosecuted?
http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/04/brash-e-mails.html
April 16th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Helmet gets the award for witty retort!
Ghostie – what part of the word THEFT do you not understand – read the quote of the cops above!
I see you have given up your pathetic “SharKey” saying for the 9th floor “Slippery”. I guess your old slur didn’t ring very well, like one of those old wood and brass style dial phones.
April 16th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
DPF,
The Police have whitewashed this.
You know how to recover emails, you now how to use Securty Logs to find what time the emails were acessed.
I also know how to do this.
But the Police don’t know how? What a joke they are.
April 16th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
re the ’slippery’..
people who live in liarbore houses shouldn’t throw stones..eh..?
’slippery’ is sticking..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
April 16th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Not much of a surprise really. Yet again the uniform wing of the NZ labour party fail.
April 16th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Witty indeed Helmet! As Bob Clarkson demands, I’ll pay that one!
Now to find the answer to the mystery just take off the word ‘power’ and sneak in the common language of the Commonwealth and …bingo!
Agh, I feel like a real Kiwiblogger now I have coined a conspiracy theory of my own!
April 16th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Who gives a nutty shit how the emails were leaked? The important thing is, they were.
After all, if he wants to, my boss can read all the emails that I write on the work computer. Likewise, we, the people, as the bosses of the MPs who work for us, should be able to read what those conniving fucks in parliament use their own work computers for (which we paid for). And anyone who enlightens us about what they’re doing with our money is to be thanked.
PS: If you don’t agree with me then you must be some kind of brainwashed lying socialistic commie socialist etc, etc.
April 16th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Inventory….exactly it would always have been a difficult job to track down the theif but I would have thought that a case of ‘receiving’ could have been established against Hager especially as the burdon of proof shifts to him to prove he came by the emails honestly. To do that one would think he would have to show that he had Brash’s permission to publish them.
April 16th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
This is a sad indictment. Obvious criminality here and our shameful judiciary makes a mockery of fairness and integrity.
What part of an ass is the law?
April 16th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Well, I’m sure the National Party won’t be taking this sitting down, singing some hymns. They’ll pick themselves up, and apply themselves to their campaign ahead. After all, God helps those who help themselves.
April 16th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Nothing like tolerance my friend – my way or the highway! ♥
April 16th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
“Tolerance” – Brenden or corruption?
April 16th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Ah well, the lefties won’t be able to whinge and moan when Wishart’s book comes out on Monday – they can’t have it both ways. I gather than the police feature quite strongly!
April 16th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Sorry Dad – forgot I need to explain things to you in monosyllabic tones. I was referring to Capill’s rider that if you don’t agree with me then you are ……..
Oh Sushi – ye of little faith. If you read the Bible a little closer rather than rely on aphorisms you may learn that God actually helps those who love and serve God. Hymns are pretty certainly part of that drill.
April 16th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Barnsley Bill +0 Says:
April 16th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Not much of a surprise really. Yet again the uniform wing of the NZ labour party fail.
Fail? In your context that would be “succeed”.
April 16th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
ghostwhowalks3
OK, so using your logic it was an inside job, and the Police tell us they were stolen. One conclusion we can draw is you know it was inside the beehive, and the Police tell us they were stolen… So who in which other party stole them? Was it a Labour person, NZ1?, Greens?
steve
I think assuming the Police “don’t know how” is probably a bad assumption, assuming they are not telling is possibly a good assumption.
April 16th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Not only does Hager profit, he costs the tax payer wasted money by way of a fruitless police investigation. Given the profit is based on a crime and its in the public interests to solve crime, shouldn’t Hager disclose his source to the police?
Politics aside, I would like to think that the Beehive is a secure and crime free environment.
April 16th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
dm
It’s a curious situation when an author receives stolen ministerial emails and uses them to write a book. It gets more curious when the govt of the day provide tax payer funding to make that book into a play to denigrate the opposition. It then gets even more curious when the Police decide to drop the investigation when at the center of the story are stolen emails from secure parliamentary servers.
People in NZ wonder why we are gaining the title ‘Venezuela of the south’ – go figure.
April 16th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
“Sorry Dad – forgot I need to explain things to you in monosyllabic tones.’
Anything other than Liarbour Language will suffice, thank – you Brenden boohoo.
April 16th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
Should we establish a committee to make sure publicly funded plays are politically acceptable burt?
April 16th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
stephen
If ‘Absolute Power’ is made into a play while Labour are in govt then I’ll retract my assertion that the spending was politically motivated and as such it should possibly count as an expense of the Labour party not the NZ tax payer.
April 16th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
So a National person committed a criminal act and all Key can say to Hagar is “Get Lost”.
Very very unclassy, how about “no comment”.
they accused him of something he didn’t do. He won’t but he should be going through civil proceedings now, that is bullshit.
Key over the last couple of days is looking like a hagged man, and this was weak leadership.
April 16th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Brendan
Is it your ultimate goal to be a member of Parliament?
April 16th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
stephen
Perhaps to maintain balance ‘Seeds of distrust’ could also be made into a play, what do you think, do you reckon the Labour led govt would be comfortable funding that?
April 16th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
I know exactly how the documents were leaked and I know that they were not all emails. I know that there were three copies of each. I also know they were put into three file boxes and who they were delivered to. I would say David knows this as well. David, surely you should have just neglected to post on this issue?
April 16th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
DPF here judges the outing of Brash (and his staffers) style and methods of party leadership/governance as a negative, when surely it should be a positive – a lesson in how not to run a political party. Obviously, someone within the National Party felt the same way – otherwise we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all.
There was no evidence to suggest that there was any outside involvement in the leaking of the Brash emails, except Hagar himself. Yet there was plenty of evidence published that Dr. Brash lied about both the level of and even existence of personal/professional involvement in potentially corrupt dealings with donors and lobby groups.
Yet DPF has claimed the latter is nonsense, and the former is the truth. When it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck – it is in fact, a duck – not some nefarious conspiracy chicken bent on some illicit mind-warping agenda.
Next week we will hear about how Nixon was framed – that the security guard and investigators were Democrat stooges designed to corrupt the judication of the law.
April 16th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
The plot thickens Dr Watson? Hi sonic “deranged” person.
I mean to say “I also know they were put into three file boxes and who they were delivered to.”
One for the master, one for the Dame and one for the little boy who lives down the lane.
April 16th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Paul said “So a National person committed a criminal act and all Key can say to Hagar is “Get Lost”.”
Ah, no Paul. There has been no suggestion from the Police that anyone from National committed a criminal act. However, the Police DID find that e-mails were stolen, and that after they were stolen they ended up with Hager, who KNEW they were stolen, therefore committing the criminal offence of receiving. Receiving is commonly viewed by judges as more serious than theft – without “receivers” of stolen property, thieves wouldn’t have a ready market. Receiving is punishable by a maximum of seven years’ imprisonment. There has been no indication from the Police that they intend to prosecute Hager, for reasons which will become apparent on Monday.
Key’s refusal to apologise to Hager should be applauded, not ridiculed.
April 16th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
We have eliminated the suggestion that an external ‘computer hacker’ had breached the computer security within Parliament
Indeed. As usual internal. And let us see, who had not only the possibility, but also the motive? For whom would it be the easiest to access Brash emails? What is the party that is the greatest in rolling its own leaders?
April 16th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
The police were slow off the mark in this case, which paralleled the sycophancy of those at the top of the force towards Helen Clark.
That little leftist creep Hager was part of an orchestrated set-up to depose Don Brash, but he certainly didn’t have the brains to lead it.
It’s still likely others outside Labour and even National were involved. They would have had an axe to grind related to matters outside the political realm. But if so they would have had allies inside Labour, and probably also in the patch of sludge at the bottom of National MPs. These people and Hager would just be enthusiastic tools in this scenario.
This scenario fits with Labour, especially Mallard then cruelly humiliating Brash in the dying days of his political career.
Mallard has suffered his payback, and Clark and the others of Labour will get theirs later this year. The tiny few potential suspects in National are on their way out. The wheel is turning.
Brash was a decent, straight-talking man as politicians go. He had a good economic brain and the right sort of experience for a time when the world is going into a financial spin. Hager, with his crazy left-wing views and “Investigate” like sensationalism, is the last person you would take as a judge of political character. Hager the moralist! Yeah, like Goebbels.
The liberal media joined Labour in hounding Brash because he dared say that everyone, of whatever ethnicity should be equal under the law. There looks to be a far bigger story for them in Helen Clark, but they look away.
April 16th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
“No suggestion from the police that anyone from National”
really? Make me laugh.
April 16th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
I think that you are implying that the ‘neutron bomb’ which Labour will launch just before the next election is the rumour that Key leaked the emails to Hager. But look at it realistically, it would only underpin his credentials as someone able and willing to act when necessay – so may just backfire.
April 16th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Cui bono.
April 16th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Jack5,
are their round planets, oxygen, night day that sort of thing in your universe?
There’s a colluding liberal media (really shock horror – do they pull legs off spiders?), there’s an evil mallard who humiliates, and a hard done by decent man.
No the earth is flat and there is no evidence of intelligent life on planet Jack5
National did it – in the library with a pipe.
April 16th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
“really? Make me laugh.”
Just go over to the mirror and look into it Paul. That should do the trick.
April 16th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
no envy Paul?
no shame exhibiting a total lack of knowledge over the EFA for everyone with a reading age above 6 to see
I’m sure you were a great teacher, a sad loss to an undervalued profession.
April 16th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Weird how all of the “champoins of free speech” around here get all upset when Nicky Hager exercises his right to free speech.
David, you would be smart to drop this, we all know which party was responsible for these leaks.
April 16th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Cui bono.
Its highly unlikely to be Key he was a man on the way up. Nor does it fit with his personal style he’s reasonably upfront and direct. Look at the circumstances of his selection he challenged a sitting MP. Why would anyone believe he would not handle Brash in the same manner, if he believed it were time to move.
In addition, its probably against some universal law that one is so richly rewarded for what would be an act of betrayal.
If National MP’s widely believed it’s Key then he is done for on the basis of “living by the sword and dying by the sword” or in this case a knife in the back. Whilst most leaders regard any sustained opposition to them on something as disloyalty, a Leadership so seriously stained from the beginning invites scheming. There is no evidence of this as a widely held belief among National MPs.
No its likely to be someone who feels they were justified in this act of betrayal. Its likely to be someone with an advanced moral system. They were acting in the common good as they assessed it, saving the National Party from disaster – it was incidental that they benefited – but they did indeed benefit.
Who really knows the hearts of men.
April 16th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
So, the emails were printed eh?
The police know this how?
Are there any of the original printed emails available? If there are, then perhaps they should be gathered as evidence. Hopefully, the police realise that modern laser printers have identifying marks on all printouts? There will be a date, time and printer serial number. This information is easily recovered even from shredded paper, you just have to know where (and how) to look.
This information would be quite helpful methinks. But, I’m no policeman so, WTF do I know…
April 16th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Paul:
You know that Mallard was twisting the knife in Brash, and then (Yes there is a God) Mallard suddenly was the kettle who had called the pot black.
And let’s talk about the liberal media and Helen Clark. You can’t dispute they give her an easy ride, especially about the potentially big story!
Our television is dominated by State owned channels. They know they will get more handouts from dying Labour than from National. Our print media is dominated by overseas companies that don’t give a stuff about their NZ papers’ editorial stances as long as the advertising dosh rolls in. Our radio is dominated by State and overseas interests. The journalists? Overwhelmingly liberal graduates. The print ones lean to the left because they have a loose rein. The State ones do the same because they won’t bite the (witch’s) hand that feeds.
Mr Farrar’s blog is one of the few spots where the Right can get a go.
And the police? Well any time Helen steps over the line they have to be nudged and nudged to lean on her. But when Brash is the victim, they take for ever to get on the case.
And whether a dissident down-the-pecking-order National MP (or two?) was involved, it was Labour, Hager, and extra-Parliamentary X that took part in the Brash lynching.
But you can bet Mallard won’t be the only one to receive Natural Justice.
And as for Hager suddenly exercising his right of free speech. He was just a tool in this nasty play.
April 16th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
So there’s a lot left unsaid here. What was the form of the documents with Hager, if they were printed out what was the order, and context of the printed emails, date and time of printing. This will determine who’s email account was accessed. How did they get to Hager? he surely must have been asked that. If they actually were stolen then he’s in possession of stolen property, so what has he done with the originals. Who else had copies?, was it in fact three sets? If there were three sets, who has them. Most of this would have been uncovered in the investigation. We know who knew about it, this is recorded in Hansard.
April 16th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
IANAL, but as I understand it the illegality of stealing inheres in the fact that someone is deprived of something that they own. If I steal your television, you don’t have your television any more. In this instance no one was at any point deprived of anything. If a crime occurred, it is something like “invasion of privacy” or “copyright infringement” — but it seems obvious that no theft occurred.
April 16th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
sonic struggles to comprehend the difference between “free” and “stolen”.
i guess i’m “free” to drive a “stolen” car on the roads but if the police were doing their job in that instance i’d pay for exercising that freedom pretty quickly. it’s a damn shame that the hagar-pawn has been let off without so much as a warning.
April 16th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
sonic thinks everything is free in a stolen socialist kiwi generation.
April 16th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
As with everything else they did last election, Labour attacked the messenger, not the message. They seem to think what worked so well for them last time will work again. However, they need to remember that John Key is not a younger version of Don Brash, and he was a success in a field where the weak do not survive. He was a success in the real world, not the world of academia. He provided results, not thesis and theories!
This party is entirely bereft of new ideas, all they can do so far is parrot all the policy they have already put in to force, and tax cuts, whuch National have been espousing for years.
April 16th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Swampash, if the e-mails were on paper, the paper was stolen. Someone was deprived of that paper. Stealing it is.
I doubt very much it was Bill, or that it was John Key. Brian Connelly maybe, but he was already putting the knife into Brash’s front, why put it in his back as well?
The only story I have heard that even remotely sounds believable was the one of the aggrieved secretary/EA in Don Brash’s office. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if Don was having all his e-mails printed and he read them that way – fits my picture of the man. Plenty of opportunity there. Not much to make noise about.
Nicky Hager definitely received something he wasn’t entitled to. Maybe that is appropriate as a “whistle-blower” or some such, but really out of the supposed reams of e-mails that he received he produced no smoking gun, no dirt really at all other than the normal goings-on in a political party. If we had a dump of all Helen Clark’s e-mails I very much doubt we’d find her to be squeaky clean either. Sooner or later those chickens will come home to roost – there is a hell of a lot of dirt surrounding the dying days of this government, and once they are out of power it will all come out. Clark has made plenty of enemies in the media with the way they have been managed – there are a lot of stories that were squashed for fear of upsetting her and losing all future access. Journalists want to tell those stories…
April 16th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
In correspondence on paper, isn’t the copyright owned by the sender?
If so, surely the same applies to email. If it is sent to one or more named addressees, doesn’t the copyright remain the property of the sender?
And stealing copyright must be like stealing other property?
Are there any patent attorneys following this blog who can help?
April 16th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Hager has a degree of cheek that is almost commendable to demand an apology. The article read that the police are closing the file because they cannot find the thief not because it was legitimate. Shouldn’t he apologise for using stolen property (even if innocently)?
April 16th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
I have difficulty seeing why Hager is not being prosecuted having profited from material that has been obtained through an illegal act. He is in essence a receiver. He must have known he was the beneficiary of material that he was not entitled to have. So he went on and wrote a book and profited from that material.
April 16th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Also nice to see the champions of free speech try and shut down all investigative journalism by calling a leak “theft”
Only leading members of the National Party had access to this stuff, you should all thank Hager for having enough principles not to reveal his source.
April 16th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
Would the Police close the file if National was in Government?
April 16th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
PaulL raises a good point about emails forming a part of the public record of the Administration. Does anyone know if they are legally required to be retained?
Re: Hagar’s liability for the crime of receiving, is it possible he avoids prosecution because of some aspect of constitutional or media law that is designed to protect free speech, whistleblowers or journalists? It’s such an obvious charge that surely the Police have got a reason for not following it up. Has any journo asked them why they haven’t?
April 16th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Has it occurred to anyone else that it might just have been his wife? She’d have way more motive than anyone else…
April 17th, 2008 at 12:35 am
In the imortal words of Helen Clark, Didums.
You poor right wingers don’t want to admit that the emails where pasted on by a disgruntled National Voter that saw Brash as the Tosser/Wife-cheater he was.
opr could that be a Jk supporter looking to roll Dapper Don because he was a complete twat.
Look closer to home guys, the truth will set you free.
April 17th, 2008 at 2:34 am
that would also explain why he dropped the legal challenge BlairM
April 17th, 2008 at 2:35 am
“E-mail thieves got away with it.”
Christ David, this is desperate. It was an inside job and you know it.
April 17th, 2008 at 6:18 am
“In the imortal words of Helen Clark, Didums.”
At least you could put another d in diddums Dalley you doh brained communist queer.
“Look closer to home guys, the truth will set you free.”
Yes Dalley, I can’t wait for the book Absolute Power to reveal the truth you mashed spud brained lemon !!
April 17th, 2008 at 6:38 am
The police should speak to Hagar. It is as simple as that. As for Tane and the rest of them – where is the proof that it was leaked, not stolen?
April 17th, 2008 at 8:14 am
Morning to you too D4J, not had yor Muesli yet?
April 17th, 2008 at 9:02 am
Sonic
Only leading members of the National Party and the IT Department had access to this stuff, you should all thank Hager for having enough principles not to reveal his source.
Thought you needed a correction there sonic, wouldnt want you to come across as an idiot who doesnt think through things before posting.
Christ David, this is desperate. It was an inside job and you know it.
I agree, inside the IT Department. The only desperation here is you trying to paint some grand conspiracy within the Labour ranks. The last thing ANY National MP would want is confidential emails in the public domain as it would hurt the party too much. Imagine if Cullen leaked a huge proportion of Clarks emails to ‘get rid of her’. The amount of damage it would do to the party would far outway any gain Cullen could make.
April 17th, 2008 at 9:12 am
Bevan: The last thing ANY National MP would want is confidential emails in the public domain as it would hurt the party too much. Imagine if Cullen leaked a huge proportion of Clarks emails to ‘get rid of her’. The amount of damage it would do to the party would far outway any gain Cullen could make.
I agree with that. I can see them releasing emails that would affect only Clark, but something that would affect Clark and Labour? Especially for years to come?
Nah, that’s just too much of a stretch.
April 17th, 2008 at 9:16 am
Is Absolute Power true before it has even come out? Why do I think it’s going to be David Icke all over again…
This ‘theft’ was in the public interest, but people want the person prosecuted…are these the same people who wanted the guy who shot up the car of those burglars lets off?
April 17th, 2008 at 9:52 am
“grand conspiracy within the Labour ranks”?? Ha, “I would make a great Labour Prime Minister”?