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April 30, 2008 9:35am by David Farrar

General Debate 30 May 2008

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General Debate

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Hoolian

Insurance policy for unborn babies

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23604493-29277,00.html

How can you get insurance out against the unborn – when the unborn aren’t even alive? We’ve been told again and again that the unborn aren’t alive and that they’re just a collection of cells, and then this?

So, if a woman insures her child and then aborts it, will she have to pay an excess?

To me, this just solidifies the pro-life argument that life begins at conception.
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April 30, 2008 9:42am
Yvette

I’d still be keen to know the answer to something I mentioned in another thread . . . but one that was dying . . .

If Helen stopped the Mike Williams-approved tactic of using Government bumf augmented by Labour propaganda in electioneering – probably only because of the publicity you and others gave it – how does Cullen get away with proposing legislation to ‘lock in’ Labour tax cuts when that is solely for election purposes: to block National suggesting ‘the tax cuts aren’t really there’, roughly what was said in last Saturday’s Dom Post?

What portion of this election motivated use of Parliamentary legislation will be allocated to Labour’s election spending – the drafting of such law through to passing it, from Government department staff time to that of Parliament itself – to produce “a form of words or graphics, or both, that can reasonably be regarded as encouraging [well, you know by now how all this krap goes] or persuading voters to vote, or not to vote, for 1 or more specified parties or for 1 or more candidates or for any combination of such parties and candidates, or encouraging or persuading voters to vote, or not to vote, [or go to Aussie] for a type of party or for a type of candidate that is described or indicated by reference to views, positions, or policies that are or are not held, taken or pursued, whether or not the name of a party or the name of a candidate is stated.”

Or, instead of the Williams-approved misuse of Government bumf, will the Labour faithful in electioneering be able to hand around copies of Hansard and a copy of Cullen’s Locked-In Taxes Act, whatever it is called?
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April 30, 2008 9:49am
Gooner

Did Ahmed Zaoui have any involvement in, or knowledge of, this?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10507033
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April 30, 2008 9:50am
Lee C

Listen to the talkback – how many people today will call in and say this: “I’m amazed how many peoplel want to change the law to make it legal to bash your kids.” Is this the HO spin before the referendum is made a fact?
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April 30, 2008 9:56am
Graeme Edgeler

Hoolian – well you can get insurance on cars, and they’re not alive…
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April 30, 2008 10:12am
infused

No Hoolian, it’s just an easy money maker. Nothing more, nothing less. Almost a form of gambling with very good odds.
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April 30, 2008 10:12am
g_

How can a union say that their newsletter is distributed to members only, (so they are excempt from the EFA and can say what they want), yet I am not a member but found one in the staffroom recently… and there were many articles clearly inferring ‘don’t vote National, vote Labour’.

If a union newsletter is left in a staffroom intentionally so that non-union members will see it, should it then be classed as an electoral advertisement and need authorization?
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April 30, 2008 10:19am
Lee C

g …. what we need is a central address to which we can direct these breaches and have them advocated properly to the EC – DPF any ideas?
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April 30, 2008 10:21am
gd

Lee C this is the MO of the Socialists Communists and Command and Control Freaks The average punter cant/wont see the big issue behind this is the principle of how much control should a government have over the lives of the citizens.

The Left of course say it should be unlimited. Even if a majority of the citizens disagree then if the elected government decide to interfer and take control then they can do so.

The Left believe that the plebiscite every 3 years gives the elected government a 100% mandate.

They dont believe in CIR thats why the bar is set at 10% In other countries is 5% or lower In California its 300,000 from 30 Million or just 1% That to get a CIR and the results are binding on the government.

The arguements about what should be subject to a CIR are bullshit The issues are those have have a significant public impact and awareness and those where the politicans are conflicted.

the classic of course was the EFA If ever there was an issue that the Pollies have no moral right to decide that was it.

It was all about them We the citizens where and are the only ones whyo shoul decide issues concerning our governance model and rules.

They are there to carry out the wishes of the people Instead over a period over 3 or so decades we have allowed them to expand their mandate to take control of our lives bit by bit.

Like the frog in the pot we have slowly been boiled so now we have little freedom compared to the past.

And with the AIA and Vector issues we see that freedom being whittled away.

30 years ago ownership of shares in a PLC was respected by the governments of the day.

Now we have nationalisation by stealth where the governemnt locked up a citizens investment in a PLC by refusing to allow them to excercise their basic onwership rights.

So the governemnt have confiscated the rights of transfer withourt paying any consideration.

Thiis is of course an attack on the principles of contract law. But we have become so immune like the frog we just shrug our shoulders and except theres nothing we can do

Which is just what the pollies and the civil servants want us to do
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April 30, 2008 10:30am
Ross Miller

I see that ACT is to reverse their 2005 policy and stand candidates in the Maori seats while still proposing to abolish those seats. A case of pragmatism over principle perhaps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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April 30, 2008 10:30am
Gooner

Is Zaoui still living at the Dominican Priory and if so did he have any knowledge of this considering the priests at the Priory were involved and supported the action?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10507033
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April 30, 2008 10:30am
BlairM

Where did you hear that Ross? That’s news to me.
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April 30, 2008 10:33am
Glenn

Insurance policy for unborn babies

More like insuring your vocal cords, legs, or breasts (each a collection of cells), I would say. Not sure that it says anything normative about abortion any more than car insurance says anything about demolition derbies.
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April 30, 2008 10:43am
evilmonkey

Slight error in title — “General Debate 30 *May* 2008”
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April 30, 2008 11:08am
Mike Collins

Sign seen outside the Malthouse on Courtenay Place last night:

“152 Beers. All of them easier to swallow than the Electoral Finance Act!”

Heh. Very sorry I didn’t get a photo but will try another time if the sign doesn’t change and send DPF a copy to post if he so chooses.
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April 30, 2008 11:16am
Inventory2

evilmonkey said “Slight error in title — “General Debate 30 *May* 2008″”

A freudian slip perhaps – maybe DPF is just wishing that the election was indeed a month less distant!
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April 30, 2008 11:25am
David Farrar

Mike C – that would be good.
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April 30, 2008 12:34pm
labrator

Was pointed out by a UK friend that Gordon Brown is considering including house prices into the Consumer Price Index now that houses prices are falling. A truly cynical move that’ll mean that the UK inflation targets will be met. What do you think the TAB odds would be on Cullen doing the same so he can get Bollard to drop rates to try and get home owners to vote Labour?
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April 30, 2008 12:47pm
RRM

g_:
most non-union-members seem to so despise the unions that I doubt any would bother to pick up a loose union magazine and thumb through it!
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April 30, 2008 1:21pm
Inventory2

The vandalism at Waihoai is all Nicky Hager’s fault!

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/04/hager-implicated-in-waihopai-vandalism.html
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April 30, 2008 3:28pm
jafapete

# RRM (354) Add karma Subtract karma +0 Says: April 30th, 2008 at 1:21 pm “g_: most non-union-members seem to so despise the unions that I doubt any would bother to pick up a loose union magazine and thumb through it!”

A nice bit of uninformed prejudice. When asked in a representative national survey five years ago whether they would be better or worse off if there was no union in their workplace, hardly any of the workers who had not joined the union said that they would be better off, a little over 70% said no difference, and around a quarter said that they would be worse off. Not exactly a huge vote of confidence (but then we are talking about non-joiners here, and the joiners were very positive), but definitely nowhere near what your blind prejudice suggests.
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April 30, 2008 3:28pm
Johnboy

I guess it is like natural selection people who are intelligent enough to think for themselves tend to despise union tossers who tend to presume they are the only ones that should be doing the thinking for everybody.
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April 30, 2008 3:40pm
baxter

…………………………………………………….BATTLE FOR BEERSHEBA……………………………………

The anniversary of this important and triumphant battle by ANZAC troops for this Jewish town in 1917 was celebrated with the unveiling of the statute of an Anzac soldier at the site on the 29th April. (The last ever cavalry charge in world warfare) Present at the ceremony was the Governor General of Australia, a phalanx of current Australian Cabinet Ministers and several top level Australian Military Men. Ten thousand Australians and four thousand New Zealander had taken part in the battle. New Zealand was represented by an ‘Honorary Consul’ and three serving officers who happened to be in the area.(Not even a Maori haka party}. Winston was supposed to be there but didn’t show…………These comments are not mine but those of a foreign affairs reporter on Holmes. None of our media apparently thought it newsworthy…Our Tyrant of course was engaged in a similar photo opportunity from which the Public were excluded at a bridge in Sydney.
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April 30, 2008 3:53pm
Rex Widerstrom

“Family dna used to finger criminals”. Oh great.

Not only has the supposed infalliability of DNA evidence been shown to be a chimera (bonus points to nerds who get the DNA joke there), leading to the release of wrongfully convicted innocents in the US and other jurisdictions, but Mr Plod has been shown to be incapable of even filing samples correctly, leading to mis-identification.

And now they’re going to claim to be able to prove I’m guilty of something because they have an old pap smear from my first cousin.

Seems the “justice” system won’t be happy till we’re all in jail, no matter how questionable the “evidence”, so why not build a wall round the coastline and declare us all prisoners? Okay, I’m resorting to hyperbole… but it does seem that way sometimes. Yes, we need to combat violent crime – but not at the expense of confining more innocents to jail.

And the police, when angling for more power, always cite how useful it is in dealing with the really serious stuff (murder, rape, terrorism)… but that doesn’t stop them later using it on people suspected of committing far less serious offences.
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April 30, 2008 4:08pm
big bruv

Rex

Are you suggesting that police should not use information on far less serious offenses?

If some low life has stolen something from me then I want the police to use each and every tool available to catch and prosecute these scum bags.
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April 30, 2008 4:13pm
adam2314

Beersheba

(The last ever cavalry charge in world warfare)

I have always understood that the Polish Army had cavalry charges against the invading Germans WW11.
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April 30, 2008 4:23pm
Rex Widerstrom

big bruv:

I’m suggesting that until they can get matching my DNA right so that innocent people don’t go to jail, they should stay away from using even shakier technology like trying to match me to my grandmother’s diabetes blood test in their never-ending quest to improve their woeful cleanup rate.

Sure you want the low life who stole something from you to go to jail. But it doesn’t do you any good if the person sent to the pokey is actually innocent (and it doesn’t do him much good either, I assure you) while the real low life is free to steal from the next victim.
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April 30, 2008 4:34pm
jafapete

The Italians were still usng cavalry in WW2, and I think that the last cavalry charge was that of the Savoia Cavalry against Soviet troops in 1942.
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April 30, 2008 4:34pm
Chicken Little

Cavalry vs cavalry?
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April 30, 2008 4:44pm
big bruv

I see that a witness has told the court today that the former Labour party MP Philip Field asked her to lie when questioned by the Ingram inquiry, remeber this is the man that dear corrupt leader described as “only guilty of trying to help people”

Why are the media not covering this story in more depth?, Comrade Espiner and the rest of the red media seem determined to sweep this under the rug.

Field was a Labour MP when he allegedly committed these crimes and the public should be reminded of this.
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April 30, 2008 4:46pm
Gooner

Oops!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10507125
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April 30, 2008 4:50pm
baxter

JAFAPETE AND ADAM ,,,,The foreign correspondent stated that BEERSHEBA was the last such charge and all the Google historical references confirm it. Perhaps it was the scale of the battle and the numbers involved that earnt it that reputation.
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April 30, 2008 6:57pm
Duxton

“I have always understood that the Polish Army had cavalry charges against the invading Germans WW11.”

No, Adam, that is one of the great myths of WW2. Polish cavalry never charged the Germans. There was one incident where a formation of German armoured cars chanced upon some Polish cavalry sheltering in a small wood, and the cavalry had to ride through the armoured cars to escape.

Jafa – there was another cavalry charge in early 1942 in the Philippines, when a US Cavalry unit charged a Japanese screening force.
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April 30, 2008 7:02pm
Graeme Edgeler

Beersheba … (The last ever cavalry charge in world warfare)

They weren’t cavalry but mounted infantry.
[there’s apparently a difference]
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April 30, 2008 7:14pm
Johnboy

Yeah my wifes grandfather was there in the Canterbury Mounted Rifles, may be they don’t use swords like true cavalry did and the horse was just for mobility, ie you dismounted and fought as infantry when in range of the enemy. Some war buff will know.
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April 30, 2008 7:18pm
jafapete

Baxter, “…and all the Google historical references confirm it.”

Wrong again!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amedeo_Guillet
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April 30, 2008 7:21pm
adam2314

Beersheba

Poland may or may not be a myth..

But there seems to be plenty of mythstakes on the last charge.
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April 30, 2008 7:32pm
jafapete

Baxter, Sorry, the previous post was sent accidentally, and then disappeared into the ether before I could amend it.

Most academic accounts of the last charge of the Savoia Cavalleria are in Italian, and that is what google scholar brings up.

As Gervase Phillips writes:
“Janus Piekalkiewicz’s The Cavalry of World War II was translated from the German, free of the anticavalry prejudice that distinguished the English historiography. Its brief text provided a limited overview of mounted operations during the war. The narrative, however, is still useful, providing, for example, one of the few accounts in English of the charge of the Savoia Cavalleria which shattered three Soviet infantry battalions at Isbuschenski on 24 August 1942.”

Phillips, Gervase, ‘Scapegoat Arm: Twentieth-Century Cavalry in Anglophone Historiography’, The Journal of Military History, Volume 71, Number 1, January 2007, pp. 37-74.
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April 30, 2008 8:46pm
gnadsmasher

Looks like Gooner wants to do some unwarranted stirring.

As reported extensively at the time, Zaoui relocated to the Mangere resettlement centre when his family arrived in October 2007. He and his family have now moved into the community, where his kids attend school and Ahmed continues his research and writing.

Why would Zaoui have any interest, much less anything to do with the spy base invasion? Just because one of the friars is an activist in the anti-bases cause does not mean Zaoui is connected to it in any way. The inference of guilt by association–which is exactly what French intelligence and the SIS tried to pin on him with the now discredited GIA allegations–is spurious, mean-spirited and wrong.
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April 30, 2008 8:54pm

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