How can someone be so evil?
I can’t understand how certain human beings can be so evil. I can understand how Mugabe gets drunk with power. I can understand the gang member who has been commiting crimes for 20 years, killing someone and not caring.
But I can’t understand how a father could imprison his daughter for 24 years, let alone father six children with her. Josef Fritzl defies rational explanation, no matter how much people in Austria are searching for it.
Evil isn’t so scary when it is easy to identify – the Mugabes, the violent drug crazed killers. But when it turns out to be your next door neighbour (or your economics lecturer!) it shakes your belief in human nature.
Nothing can ever repair the damage done to Fritzl’s family, but at a minimum I hope he spends longer in prison than they did.
April 30th, 2008 at 8:27 am
I can’t get my head around how the mother didn’t know what was going on.
April 30th, 2008 at 8:30 am
Watch a bit of liveleak.com or theforum.com [nsfw] and you will realize the world is one fucked up place.
April 30th, 2008 at 8:30 am
Simple: “Man’s inhumanity to humanity”. Thousans of examples everywhere. Part of man’s nature ever since creation. That’s what it is to be human?
April 30th, 2008 at 8:32 am
“…defies rational explanation…”
but most certainly is within psychological explanation and has been for at least 100 years. Not the latest politico-liberal, pre-decided, tick the box, type psychology though.
April 30th, 2008 at 8:42 am
The psychological abuse must have been immense, people just give up and adjust to totally intolerable circumstances. It is a bit like the poverty stricken lifestyle the Labour Party offers people on welfare. But at the end of the day he will treated far more humanely than he treated his daughter. I suppose he could see old age coming and wanted to see out his days in the comfort of a well light and heated prison with regular food. Similarly Labour ex-politicans will be treated to a well healed and comfortable retirement. Even for someone as useless and Judith Tizard with her fat backside complete with VPL being broadcast on TV last night.
[DPF: ANd that's 10 demerits for off topic. Don't turn every thread into a comparison with Labour]
April 30th, 2008 at 8:54 am
You are pathetic barclay.
While near impossible to comprehend, is it surprising that at country that gave birth to Hitler can give birth to this monster?
[DPF: Whoa boy. Two monsters out of say 20 million is not a trend. Please don't associate all Austrians (or half-Austrians like me) with two freaks]
April 30th, 2008 at 9:03 am
While near impossible to comprehend, is it surprising that at country that gave birth to Hitler can give birth to this monster?
Gross generalisations of a country because of the actions of three of its citizens is rather stupid.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:03 am
rubbernecker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law
“As [an internet] discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.”
April 30th, 2008 at 9:06 am
What siobahn said. The early reports said that he and his wife had adopted some of the children. Flippin’ heck – I can’t fool my wife for five minutes, let alone 24 years!
April 30th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Haha! I wish I’d put money on one of you dropkicks comparing this fuckwit to our evil socialist overlord pinko government. It was a racing certainty!
April 30th, 2008 at 9:14 am
you say evil.. i say kinky..
April 30th, 2008 at 9:18 am
I can’t get my head around how NOONE knew it was going on.
This is an engineer, his daughter goes missing with no explanation.
- how did the neighbors not see him building a bunker under the house
- how did people not know that there was a steel door getting installed under the house, not exactly easy to hide ina small town
- how did the other memebrs of the family not know that there were extra mouths being fed.
- same goes with freinds.
I could understand it being hidden if it was say out in the bush, single male and single victim, but the sheer amount of people, preparation involved and the length of time, suggests that other people were involved.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:25 am
some good points mike. i dont think i could get a cat without people noticing.
i read yesterday he is facing 15 yrs in jail?? thats it!
this dude is mid70′s? old enough to be in the hitler youth? with the pope?
April 30th, 2008 at 9:36 am
You have to wonder about Germanic people and bunkers.
Look at the bright side though – There are going to be about fifty research papers and more than a few PhD’s out of this.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Anyone checked D4J’s basement lately?
(ok DPF – hit me with the demerits, but I couldn’t resist)
April 30th, 2008 at 9:50 am
In 1945 he would have been eight years old. Remember that all German boys had to be part of the German Youngfolk at about 10 and then inducted into the Hitler Youth from their 13th birthday.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:56 am
No of course a couple of mosters doesn’t mean all Austrians are. That much is obvious. What I find ironic is that while Europe tends to have a self-impression of high morality and civilisation, they are also the ones fucking the kids in Thailand, trafficking woman and sustaining slavery in the modern world.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:03 am
“(ok DPF – hit me with the demerits, but I couldn’t resist)”
Cowardly scum.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Petal, you are a perverted, very sick person. What cesspool did you crawl out of?
How can someone be so evil?
I don’t know, perhaps he’s just an advanced animal, a mistake of nature (like all of us). If he is the end result of mutated matter (that came from nothing), then he cannot have a soul, or a conscience. And if our entire World is the end result of mutated matter (which again, came from nothing), then there can be no absolute truth, no right or wrong – because, excuse me, what ultimate standard are we measuring things against? In which case, Fritzl has not done anything wrong at all.
Why is it ok to lock one ram and hundreds of ewes in a paddock… (I won’t elaborate here, but you get the idea)
It is because humans are better than animals. Not because we say we are better, but because God made us better.
Heck, “how can someone be so evil?” – the Fall.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Good post, DPF.
let alone father six children with her.
It’s an appalling story. But this is not just ‘abuse’ or ‘interference’ or ‘fathering children on her’. It’s RAPE. Our media are far too inclined to use weaselly words when it comes to incest and child abuse, so we somehow start to forget that this is a horrible crime.
I agree, the mother does seem to be complicit in this, somehow, but let’s not forget that the RAPIST father is the criminal here.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Petal (9:45) – what are you looking for in D4J’s basement?
Your other brain cell?
April 30th, 2008 at 11:01 am
looking at the basement it was certainly a piece of construction
One thing for sure It couldnt happen in NZ because no way could you build such a structure without the local Council being involved and after they had take the many thosands of dollars in fees etc they would told you it didnt comply with the regulations so you couldnt have built it.
I also find it very hard to believe Mum didnt know what was going on.
After 34 years of marriage I gotta tell you if the POlice believe that then they also believe in the Easter Bunny
April 30th, 2008 at 11:10 am
It is not off topic David. People can adjust to psychological abuse and bad living circumstances especially if they know no better. Living on welfare puts people in a similar psychological state and the Labour Party plays to that.
April 30th, 2008 at 11:13 am
PS I do think you are picking on me in a very unfair manner. I am quite happy to be banned if you like though my comments generally draw a very positive response.
April 30th, 2008 at 11:57 am
What I can’t understand, is why he risked exposure by allowing the sick child to go to hospital. I mean, why would he, considering his total lack of empathy during all the preceding years? Perhaps the size of the child’s dead body would make its disposal too difficult. Also in a Country where bunkers are not uncommon, if you saw a neighbour altering one, would you assume it was to be a prison? On the other hand, if you lived in Mt Eden, and Ian Wishart went missing ………..
April 30th, 2008 at 11:58 am
It’s a socalist country, what do you expect.
He will probably claim he was abused and it’s not his fault.
He will be out in a couple of years.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
mara On the other hand if it appeared that you lived at several different addresses 3 in fact for a couple of years all at the same time including with the mother of your bestest friend and the Chief Electoral Officer was not aware of the situation then I think you could be described as somewhat confused and probably not the calibre of person to hold high public office
April 30th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
andymoore – are you serious?? Can’t you get a little more insight into the nature of human psychology than that?
The best predictors of abuse of children are a father with drug/alcohol addictions, closely followed by authoritarian father with a religious background. This evil man has been descibed as authoritarian so a tick on one predictor.
April 30th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
It was actually seven children, one died and was burned in the incinerator.
The basement would have been there already, although it’s still hard to see how he put in a bathroom, kitchen and reinforced door with electronic wizardry without his wife knowing. German/Austrian houses are pretty solid, you could do all that without outsiders knowing much about it, but inside? no. Unless the wife was away I suppose.
The daughter was forced to write a letter saying she’d run away, the three children that she wasn’t allowed to keep were left on the doorstep with a note, purporting to be from her, asking that they be looked after. I haven’t seen yet whether they were formally adopted or just being cared for by the mother/grandmother. If formally – how the state agencies didn’t pick up on it will provoke several inquiries I imagine.
I do not believe the mother did not know, but suggest she was suffering from a form of battered wives syndrome herself (*dives for cover*)
April 30th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
I’ll withhold judgment till the facts come out. But another oddity: apparently he waited till the daughter was 18 before drugging her and dragging her off downstairs. Presumably up until that point he hadn’t abused or raped her as she – or her mother, if indeed as innocent as she is claimed to be – would have reported it.
Seems odd he didn’t snatch her when much younger. Suggests a precipitating event of some kind. That may hold the key to “why?”, or at least “why then?”.
April 30th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
One of the neighbours apparently saw him, repeatedly, unpacking a huge amount of groceries late at night – more than would be needed by the number of people ostensibly living there.
April 30th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Petal you are a legend among men!!!
April 30th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Mark: “It’s a socalist country, what do you expect.”
Hooray! I quickly made up for my mistake and did put some money on a second wingnut blaming it all on pinko socialist overlords. And i was quickly obliged. Come to daddy!
PS: The ‘Austria is a socialist country’ thing is about 30 years out of date. Austria has a mixed economy, much like the rest of us. Even the SPO is reasonably free-market these days.
Oops, sorry. Forgot the meme! OK then… it’s all down to the socialist overlord pc brigade pinko homos etc, etc.
April 30th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Rex – I think I read somewhere that the woman had been abused since she was eleven. You can see how it may have evolved. She reached adulthood and the guy realised he was going to be found out sooner or later. He couldn’t face the shame of discovery and prison, so building an elaborate cell for his daughter so his secret would never be discovered was preferable to him. And it worked… until now.
Hasn’t the news been depressing lately? This is just the icing on the cake. It feels like the whole world is starting to crumble before our eyes. It’s like the 1930s all over again.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
“Hasn’t the news been depressing lately?”
Don’t watch it or listen to it. Its all bullshit. The electronic and print media are not worth the time it takes to read watch or listen. Especially Blair when you end up with all of those wet liberal ideas that underpin so much of what you write here.
April 30th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
I like to think I’m a pretty dry liberal Redbaiter
April 30th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
Don’t argue with Redbaiter, please Blair. He knows what we all are, and he’s not afraid to take names.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:36 am
Interesting question David — how can people be so evil?
When I was a Liberal I thought that people were basically good. I now realise my error. These stories show us the evil that is inherent in the heart of man.
The Bible says that we have been corrupted by sin, we have gone our own way and there is no good in us.
I believe that understanding and realising our own sinfullness and therefore our need for a saviour is the beginning of wisdom.