Third Party Eligibility

The Electoral Commission will release next week its decision on whether the EPMU is eligible to be registered as a third party, under the Electoral Finance Act.
I have deliberately been refraining from comment on the substance of the arguments, as I don’t think it is a good look to be trying a case in the media, at the same time as a quasi-judicial body is determining the issue. But as they have now made their decision (just not released it), I think it is appropriate to make public the points I have advocated, so that they can serve as background information for when the decision is released.
My original letter is here.
Over the break, is a copy of my follow-up letter. It speaks for itself, and I’ll comment further once the decision is known and made public.
27 March 2008
Dr Helena Catt
Chief Executive
Electoral Commission
Dear Dr Catt,
Thank you for your letter stating the Electoral Commission is seeking further information on the issue of whether the NZ Amalgamated Engineering, Printing & Manufacturing Union is ineligible to be a third party under sub paragraph 13(2)(f)(i) of the Electoral Finance Act 2007.
I would like to take this opportunity to provide some further information and arguments and also to respond to the arguments presented by Andrew Little in his letter to the Electoral Commission dated 13 February 2008.
In doing so I will deal with the following issues:
- Is the EPMU a person for the purposes of the Act?
- Dominant or determinative versus “Involved”
- The EPMU as a separate self determining body
- Is the
Is the EPMU a person for the purposes of the Act?
I agree with Mr Little that the definition of the term “person” must be “ascertained from its text and in light of its purpose,” according to the Interpretation Act 1999.
In regard to the “text”, section 13 of the Act clearly incorporates both ‘natural person’ and ‘legal person’ definitions of the term ‘person’.
I would, however, point to sub-section 1 of section 13 which says, “A person is eligible to be listed as a third party if the person is:
(a) a
(b) a body corporate that is not an overseas person within the meaning of the Overseas Investment Act 2005; or
(c) an unincorporated body of which the majority of its members are persons described in paragraph (a).”
Sub-section 1 of section 13 therefore uses the term ‘person’ in the legal person sense of the term, and this is the primary sub-section defining eligibility. The rest of the section follows down from that.
On this basis I would argue that the inconsistency in meaning of the term “person” between a “natural person” and a “legal person” in the text of section 13 means that a textual interpretation is inconclusive, at best, as to whether or not the term “person” should in paragraph (2)(f) of section 13 be read as being a “natural person” or “legal person”.
In order to aid the interpretation of paragraph (2)(f) I would argue that you need to look closely at the purpose of the Act.
In the first instance I would direct you to the comments of the Ministers in charge of the Act as it made its way through the House. In introducing the Electoral Finance Bill on 26 July 2007 Hon Mark Burton said:
The bill contains a much stricter regime for third parties that choose to enter the campaign arena. During the 2005 election it became evident that third parties could mount campaigns that had the potential to undermine candidate and party expenditure limits. It is simply unacceptable to the general public that a third party should be able to, in effect, buy an election result. … This will help to guard against parallel election campaigns.
Speaking at the beginning of the Committee of the Whole House’s consideration of Part 1 (which includes section 13) of the Bill, Hon Rick Barker said:
The purpose of this bill, to come back to it, is to ensure that New Zealanders have free and fair elections. As a candidate for an election, there is a cap on my spending. My party’s spending for the election has a cap on it, as well. It is unrealistic to expect that third parties can run campaigns with limitless amounts of money, and to go and campaign for political parties as they did in the last election. There is no doubt about that, at all. I saw the pamphlets from the Exclusive Brethren, and I saw that they were in collusion with the National Party. Members should look at those pamphlets: “Change the Government”, they said. It was all done in collusion with the National Party. It was done to increase the National Party vote, and they were going to spend limitless amounts of money—a minimum of $1.2 million—to change the Government, without actually having to put anything on the National Party’s vote.
These comments show that one of the purposes of the Act is to prevent or restrict parallel campaigning. That is the intention of the Act is to prevent individuals and groups from being able to campaign in a way and on policies so similar to a political party so as to mean they are essentially extending the amount of funds that a political party is able to spend past the spending cap on the party. Mr Little acknowledges this is the intention of the Act when he states that the intent of the legislation is to ensure that individuals or sub-groups cannot “attempt to claim third party status with a right to spend within the third party spending cap as an extension of the party spending.”
If this is the intention of the Act then I believe that Mr Little’s contention that the term “person” means a natural person in sub-paragraph (2)(f) of section 13 would so frustrate the intention of the Act that it must be viewed as an untenable interpretation.
First of all if as stated by Mr Little only natural persons involved in the administration of the affairs of a party or candidate are barred from being a third party then a simple way for a financial agent of a party or candidate to get around the law would be for them to corporatise (for example by registering to become a limited liability company) and they could then be eligible to become a third party.
Secondly if only natural persons involved in the administration of the affairs of a party or candidate are barred from being a third party then this means that different types of groups that interact with and are involved with the administration of the affairs of a party would be allowed to register as a third party without limitation. For example a group such as the ‘Blue Libs’ which is aligned to the National Party but meets separately to the National Party and has no formal role under its constitution would be allowed to register as a third party but the financial agent of the National Party would not be able to register as a third party.
I understand from recent media reports that ‘ACT on Campus’ are affiliated to but a separate organisation to the main ACT Party. Under Mr Little’s interpretation, you could have the situation where a party’s youth wing can become a third party, because they are not a natural person. Indeed each of their individual campus clubs could also become a third party, if one accepts the assertion that the restriction only applies to natural persons.
I believe that these two consequences of Mr Little’s interpretation so frustrate the intention of the Act to prevent parallel campaigning that allows parties to artificially increase their spending cap that they cannot be viewed as tenable interpretations. Because I would argue that a textual analysis of section 13 shows that the term “person” is used in the sense of a “natural person” and a “legal person” I believe that the Commission needs to adopt an interpretation of the term “person” in paragraph (2)(f) of section 13 that ensures the purpose of the Act is able to be carried out. Only an interpretation which sees “person” in 13(2)(f) as a “legal person” avoids the two consequences raised above and means the purpose of the Act can be upheld.
Dominant or determinative versus “Involved”
I believe it is important to be clear about what is required under the Act. The Act states that “a person involved in the administration of the affairs of a party,” is ineligible to be a third party. The Act is clear that only involvement is required before the ineligibility test under paragraph (2)(f) of section 13 is triggered.
Mr Little states at several times throughout his letter that the EPMU does not play a dominant or determinative role in the Labour Party. For example:
The EPMU is represented at Labour Party conferences, but it cannot be said that it has a dominant or determinative role to play on any matter at the Conference. (Paragraph 20)
there is no guarantee that any affiliate, including the EPMU, can dominate the voting carried out by local Party members. It is, therefore, not correct to say that the EPMU has any determinative role to play in the selection of electorate candidates. (Paragraph 21)
Whether or not the EPMU is dominant or determinative is not the issue at hand as the Act sets the lower threshold of “involved.” The paragraph does not even refer to significant involvement or substantial involvement – just involvement.
I think the Electoral Commission needs to carefully consider the ramifications of trying to apply a test for significance or even dominance to the “involvement” disqualification. Apart from the lack of statutory backing for such a test, it could lead to a very unclear and subjective position.
In order to make value judgments about whether a level of involvement is sufficient for disqualification, the Commission would need to fully understand the internal dynamics of potentially how every registered party works. You could end up with a situation where there is a ruling that in say Party A you can be a Electorate Chair without being barred as a third party, yet in Party B, you can not be an Electorate Chair and a third party as their Electorate Chairs are more involved in party administration than Party A’s. The potential for confusion is significant.
I would think that the law, as drafted, would at a minimum exclude all office holders and members of committees and executives in a party – from branch level upwards, plus of course staff.
The EPMU as a separate self determining body
Mr Little’s letter states:
The EPMU is a longstanding, separate and distinct body with its own membership and governing body. It is fully self-determining and independent of the Labour Party. The EPMU does not make decisions for or on behalf of the Labour Party and the Labour Party is not dependent on the EPMU for any decision it takes. (Paragraph 25)
This argument is, I believe, irrelevant to the legal test in section 13 of the Act which refers to whether a person is involved in the administration of a party’s affairs. This is a totally different question to whether that person is self determining.
Is the
Mr Little claims in his letter that “It is simply not correct to say that the EPMU plays a role in the administration of the NZ Labour Party,” and “The EPMU has no representation in its own right on any constituent part of the NZ Labour Party.” In response to this I would like to quote the EPMU National Secretary, Andrew Little, from his appearance on Agenda on TV One on 2 September 2006:
LISA OWEN: So is the union losing its clout with Labour, is that relationship sort of pulling back a little bit?
ANDREW LITTLE: No I don’t think so at all, I think we are represented at all levels in the party, at electorate committees, at some of the national committees, on the New Zealand Council, we’ll continue to do that.
This is a very clear statement that the EPMU itself believes that it has representation at all levels of the Labour Party.
The statement on Agenda is also backed up by numerous rules in the Labour Party Constitution which give the EPMU, as an affilitiate, a constitutional right to involvement in administering the affairs of the Labour Party.
I draw special attention to Rule 13(ii) which states that an affiliate is actually part of the Labour Party organisation (as opposed to solely their members being part), and has a similar status to a branch or electorate committee.
13. The Party organisations shall consist of:
i. General Branches and Special Branches
ii. Affiliates
iii. Labour Electorate Committees
This clearly makes the EPMU not just an ordinary member but as an affiliate member, they are part of the actual Labour Party organisation which administers the affairs of the party.
Involvement with the Parliamentary Party
Mr Little in paragraph 16 of his letter states that my previous assertions that there is no “affiliates council provided for in the Labour Party Constitution and affiliates are a group are not recognised as a group within the party. There is no formal liaison with any specific MP or group of MPs.”
In response to this I would first point to the following text from the NZ Labour Party website at the following page: http://staging.labour.org.nz/labour_team/party_groups/affiliates/index.html
Trade Union Affiliates
The
The Council meets regularly throughout the year, and maintains a close liaison with members of Parliament through the Transport and Industrial Relations Caucus Committee.
Trade Unions affiliated to the NZ Labour Party are: Engineering, Printing & Manufacturing Union (EPMU), Service & Food Workers Union (SWFU) and the Dairy Workers
Members of any of the Affiliate Unions are automatically members of the Labour Party if they wish. This means they have exactly the same rights and responsibilities as ordinary Labour Party members and can become office holders, take part in selection meetings or stand as Labour candidates themselves.
Affiliate Vice-President Andrew Little represents union interests on NZ Council.
EPMU members as individual party members
Mr Little asserts in paragraph 17 that “The significance of some members of the EPMU also being members of the Labour Party is no more than that; some members of the union are also members of the Party.” A reading of the rules, however, makes it very clear they are delegates and representatives of the EPMU. The fact they are individuals is a truism. These individuals participate as of right for the EPMU and not in a personal capacity.
Rule 48 states affiliates are either directly members of a LEC or if branch based they appoint delegates to the LEC.
Membership
48. A Labour Electorate Committee shall consist of either:
Financial members who are appointed as delegates by Branches and affiliates and a women’s liaison officer co-opted on to the Labour Electorate Committee as a delegate, (known as a Branch based LEC);
or
i. representatives who are financial members, resident in the electorate and who are elected by financial members, in the electorate
ii. affiliates, and
iii. a women’s liaison officer co-opted to the LEC as a representative,
(This alternative structure is known as a Membership based LEC)
The affiliate (in this case the EPMU) has the same status as an actual branch of the Labour Party – except more powerful with the weighting giving for representation given in Rule 44(b).
Rule 69 (i) states delegates to an LEC must be authorised by the affilitate – they can not simply choose to participate without sanction from the affilitate.
69. The test of eligibility to participate as a voting delegate at the Annual General Meeting of a branch-based Labour Electorate Committee shall be:
i. Each individual delegate representing a branch or an affiliate must demonstrate that the branch or affiliate has duly authorised delegates to represent the Branch for the ensuing year at the Labour Electorate Committee.
This makes clear that the EPMU is mot just a passive vehicle for members to participate as individuals. The EPMU must approve any delegates to a Labour Electorate Committee AGM.
Rule 84 covers local body committees – one per territorial local authority area.
84. Each Affiliate will have representation on the Labour Local Body Committee within which its members reside.
Again I draw attention to the fact the affiliate itself is a member of the Committees.
110. A Labour Regional Council shall consist of delegates from constituent bodies and affiliates within the designated region.
Rule 110 in relation to Labour Regional Councils refers to affiliates as having delegates on the Regional Council.
Further it is inarguable that when it comes to National and Regional Conferences, that the EPMU is represented as an organisation, rather than as suggested merely being a vehicle for individuals to choose to participate.
REPRESENTATION
Annual and Regional Conferences/Congresses
163. a) Representation at Annual and Regional Conferences/Congresses shall be on the following basis
|
Affiliates with membership from 1001-1500 |
4 delegates |
4 votes |
Rule 163 gives an affiliate not only delegates, but multiple votes in its own right.
Involvement in the general affairs of the party
I again quote Mr Little from Agenda:
… we are represented at all levels in the party, at electorate committees, at some of the national committees, on the
This is itself proven by Mr Little’s letter where he says:
… the maximum number of votes that the EPMU can exercise at a conference of the Labour Party is 41. This is out of a total delegateship to the Party Conference of around 700. The EPMU is represented at Labour Party conferences …
In these quotes Mr Little admits that the EPMU has an involvement in the affairs of the New Zealand Labour Party.
I have attached a spreadsheet which calculates, the entitlement rights the EPMU has on all 69 Labour Electorate Committees (Rule 44(b). It calculates this based on both the EPMU membership registered with the Dept of Labour and on Mr Little’s assertion of a lesser number being the basis for affiliation. On the basis of Mr Little’s 18,000 members as the basis for affilitation the EPMU is entitled to 289 delegates over the 69 current Labour Electorate Committees. If the Dept of Labour figures are used then it is 474 delegates.
Rule 51 gives clear administrative duties to LECs, including election organisation activity, and fund raising.
The EPMU also has a very significant number of votes (4 votes for 1st 1,500 members and 1 extra vote for every additional 500) at the Labour Party National Conference, and Rule 147 (xvii) gives the National Conference the power to set manifesto policy – a key aspect of a party’s affairs.
It is also worth considering that the EPMU has significant input into the election or selection of 15 of the 18 voting members of the ruling NZ Council of the Labour Party (Rule 136).
They, along with other affiliate members, directly elect the Affilitate Vice-President. Their representatives at National Conference (larger than any other affiliate member, or electorate) vote for the President and the other six Vice-Presidents (or equivalents). They also get to vote within every Region on the seven regional representatives on the NZ Council, with five votes in every Region. (Rule 186). No other member of the Labour Party has as great an influence on the shape of the top administrative body – getting to vote on 15 of the 18 voting members of the Council.
Again I would stress that I believe the Commission only needs to apply a test of “involvement” as detailed in the statute. But hopefully the above paragraphs have demonstrated that the nature and level of involvement is massive and comprehensive.
Involvement in the selection of candidates
Finally I would like to bring the issue of involvement in the key task of selecting candidates under scrutiny. Again Mr Little has suggested that the EPMU is not involved directly in Labour affairs – just that its members choose to participate.
I would like to quote one of Mr Little’s own staff members in the Otago Daily Times of 31 January 2008. The article says:
“EPMU organiser Mike Kirwood said in an interview he was working hard to get as many members as possible along to the selection meeting on Saturday where Mr Benson-Pope, the MP for the nearly nine years, will face a hotly-contested selection process.
The union had more than 500 members in the electorate, with Fisher and Paykel the largest site.
The union would propose someone from the floor to be part of the six-person selection panel and hoped to have enough members to win the floor vote, Mr Kirwood said.”
This is a paid EPMU organizer stating the union is using its staff to get as many union members along to a Labour Party selection meeting as possible, and that they hope to “win the floor vote”.
I can not conceive how anyone could argue that this is not involvement with administering a party’s affairs.
The NZ Herald on 29 January 2008 reports:
Mr Pryde said the EPMU was strongly supporting his bid to become the candidate and was planning to have enough members attend on Saturday to win the floor vote, a crucial part of the process. The EPMU usually has the most influence within the party of any union grouping.
And Mr Little himself is quoted in the earlier ODT article as saying:
EPMU national president (sic) Andrew Little said Mr Pryde had the support of the union’s national executive for the nomination.
‘‘The union’s support for Don is about ensuring that the interests and values of working people are properly reflected in the Labour Party caucus and in the decision-making pro cesses of our country.’’
This is a clear statement by the EPMU National Executive of their involvement in Labour Party affairs. There are numerous other media clippings I could supply which give further examples – that this is not an isolated example.
The NZ Herald reported on 31 October 2007 that
“The EPMU is a major fundraiser and provider of campaign workers for the Labour Party. Mr Little was credited at the last election for motivating his members in the
This would also seem to qualify in a major way as involvement with the administration of a party’s affairs.
DETERMINING THE APPLICATION
Finally I would like to draw attention to the specific wording of s17(1) which effectively states that the Electoral Commission must refuse a third party application if it is “not satisfied … that the applicant is eligible …”.
Now as with any matter under dispute it is possible to conceive of three basic scenarios –
- that you are satisfied an applicant is eligible
- that you are satisfied that an applicant is ineligible
- and the borderline cases where it is difficult to conclude whether they are eligible or ineligible.
I believe that under the Act, the Commission is required to refuse the application unless it is positively satisfied the applicant is eligible. If the Commission is not able to conclude they are satisfied that an applicant is eligible, then the duty under the Act appears to be to refuse the application.
I do not believe this is a marginal call or a borderline case. I just point out that in such cases, the Act requires an application to be declined if the Commission is not satisfied the person applying is eligible.
SUMMARY
In summary I highlight:
- The EPMU is “represented at all levels in the party”
- The EPMU is guaranteed representation on every local body committee within the party
- The EPMU is guaranteed representation on all six Labour Regional Councils
- The EPMU has dozens of votes at Labour Party Annual and Regional Conferences.
- The EPMU is entitled up to at least 289 delegates on the 69 Labour Electorate Committees
- The EPMU has significant input into electing or selecting 15 of the 18 members of the NZ Council
- The EPMU endorses and supports candidates within the Labour Party
- The EPMU is actively involved in selection meetings and has paid staff working to get EPMU members to selection meetings so they can win the floor vote, influencing selections
- The EPMU actively raises money for Labour, provides campaign workers for Labour, and assists with “get out the vote” activities for Labour
The EPMU has a constitutional and irrevocable right to be represented within the Labour Party. As such it clearly falls within the legal test for section 13 of the Act and is “a person involved in the administration of the affairs of a party” and not eligible to be registered as a third party.
Once again, I hope this information is useful in helping the Electoral Commission make a decision with regard to the eligibility of this applicant to be a registered third party.
Yours Sincerely,
David Farrar


April 4th, 2008 at 10:10 am
I’d say their application is screwed and deliciously by their own words.
April 4th, 2008 at 10:16 am
That is a very in depth and detailed dissertation DPF. Very, very nicely done. It will be interesting to see what the Electoral Commisssion makes of this. Based on this, it would seem that they have no choice but to decline the EPMU’s application. But it does make me wonder what will happen if they do allow the EPMU to register.
April 4th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Excellent work David.
April 4th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Wonderful, wonderful stuff.
April 4th, 2008 at 10:22 am
It would be difficult under the law as described for the electoral commission to allow the EPMU to register as a third party. If they do it will show that they are not independant. Again I say that this coming election could turn out to be a farse with the result being determined in a court rather than through the ballot box.
April 4th, 2008 at 10:23 am
You could teach Val Sims a thing or two. IMO. Who would imagine that six ‘chinless scarfwearers’ could have had such an impact on the running of our electoral process? Thank you Labour, for screwing the unions.
April 4th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Very very well done DPF.
It will be very interesting to watch the response of both the Electoral Commission and the resident EPMU mouth pieces.
April 4th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Very good work. Nice to see such a detailed submission, and having read that I am very hopeful that there will be a finding of the EPMU not being eligible. I particularly liked your point around “satisfied” – that was hideous drafting that Labour are going to very much regret.
The next step after having the EPMU disqualified as a third party will be to start trying to count donations of services by the EPMU to the Labour party as electoral expenses, since they are donations by an organisation rather than by an individual.
April 4th, 2008 at 10:32 am
What ever happens, the decision should be appealed. Then this dogs breakfast of legislation can be tested in a court.
If it goes against the EPMU I imagine they will appeal real quick, but I doubt DPF will have the resources to appeal…
April 4th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Have to admit I don’t understand it all but it sounds like Mr Little and his beloved EPMU is pissing into the wind.
April 4th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Lee – you should amend that comment to “six husbands of chinless scarf-wearers” – or should that be “six chinless husbands of scarf-wearers” – geez – this could get complicated!!!
April 4th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Socrates said “If it goes against the EPMU I imagine they will appeal real quick, but I doubt DPF will have the resources to appeal…”
Might be time for the Kiwiblog Right Big Whip-Around
April 4th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Yes, inventory but let us suppose the aforementioned scarves could not have been proved to have been worn for the purposes of electioneering, or if they were, they were only worn by an undeclared third party who is not affilia … well you get my drift..
April 4th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Game, set, and match to DPF!
Did you have some legal assistance to write the letter? If not, on the evidence here I’d choose to have you represent me in court rather than any proper lawyer.
April 4th, 2008 at 10:49 am
and the absence of chins contravened the disclosure provisions of the EFA – sheesh – this could get ridiculous!!!
April 4th, 2008 at 11:15 am
Look how much your legal analysis was outdated in the Selwyn candidate injunction. So I dont put much store in your reasoning.
But of course the real juicy bits will come to have your day in Court you can say all sorts of things about the corruption by Carter to get the original nomination.
Or will the Judge be very restrictive about what evidence will come up.
And this can come a few months before the election.
BTW , given your connections to the national party how come you can register as a party.
List all your involvements at every level and your admitted work ( paid?) on a regular basis at the party HQ ( not parliament)
If its historical connections that count you are as linked to the national party as the EPMU is to the labour party
April 4th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Great work DPF. It’s all but impossible to conceive a neutral fair-minded person concluding the EPMU is not involved in the administration of the Labour Party.
April 4th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Sheesh ghostwhowalks. The crucial test is whether a third party is involved in the administration of a party. Not whether they were once upon a time involved.
Try to keep up.
April 4th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Socarates, I think if they appealed that DPF wouldn’t necessarily get representation. They would be appealing against the decision of the Electoral Commission, and the government would fund the Electoral Commission’s costs. The media would be huge, so that is pretty much a win-win from DPF’s viewpoint. It would just prove that the law was stupid, which is all he wants. I’m pretty sure he doesn’t really care whether the EPMU are allowed to register as a third party.
April 4th, 2008 at 11:38 am
The thing will hinge on whether “person” is restricted to “natural person” or whether it includes organisations. Given the track record of the Commission so far I am not confident they will make a ruling against the Labour Party and its affiliates.
April 4th, 2008 at 11:42 am
DPf gives only historical evidence about the EPMU involvment.
DPF regulary goes to NP candiate selections , works for the party, does polling for the party through his business.
In fact this whole legal attempt to block the EPMU is done on behalf of the National party.
As we found out in the emails nationals denials about the EB were just lies, they definitely didnt want their finger prints on the EB campaign.
National doesnt want its fingerprints on the blocking of the EPMU.
Isnt the answer for the EPMU to register a new organisation the EPMU Coalition say to run a campaign .
Doesnt that remind me of the Free Speech Coalition. Just a bit
April 4th, 2008 at 11:57 am
ghostie: directly accusing DPF is grounds for banning. Your conspiracy theories are getting more absurd.
On the points of your argument, you are wrong that DPF gives only historical evidence. Did you actually read his letter? He clearly points to the constitutional rights that the EPMU has to representation on Labour party decision making forums.
You really are an idiot, do you think you are doing the cause of the left any good by comments that are so clearly incorrect?
April 4th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
GWW of thread again, Thickoh! The National Party situation in Selwyn is an in house rule matter NOT a breach of a statute put in place by the children of the now defunct Lairbour Party. My two year granddaughter can argue a better case than you, dolt
April 4th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Hey boss well done, there’s no fair minded individual that would let the EPMU register after that.
Kind of interesting how this draconian undemocratic legislation is working so much against Labour… the party it was of course written to give an unfair advantage for…
April 4th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
GWW: DPf gives only historical evidence about the EPMU involvment.
Fucking hell. You must think people are idiots. What you are saying is that when it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and shits like a duck it is infact an elephant.
DPF gives evidence of how the organizations are structured and backs this up with examples that date from 2006 and 2007. Face the facts, the EPMU is closely involved with the Labour Party to such a degree that they have voting rights on the party manifesto.
Now, if this had been something from 1923 I might have agreed with you – but this is current and deals with events around and since the last election.
GWW3: In fact this whole legal attempt to block the EPMU is done on behalf of the National party.
I challenge you to provide proof of this assertion.
GWW3: Isnt the answer for the EPMU to register a new organisation the EPMU Coalition say to run a campaign .
So what you are saying is this:
1. The EFA was not intended to cover the Labour Party and their third party support organizations
2. The answer to their breach of the act is to knowingly break it
3. The stated aim of cleaning up electoral funding does not apply to the Labour Party and it’s affiliates
Well. At least one of these fucking lefties is being honest in what they were actually attempting to do with the EFA. Thank you for that.
April 4th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
DPF: “I do not believe this is a marginal call or a borderline case. I just point out that in such cases, the Act requires an application to be declined if the Commission is not satisfied the person applying is eligible”.
QED.
April 4th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
So DPF has a long list of documented links to the national party and suddenly this year is a free agent ??
The rope he has around the EPMU will be used to hang him as well.
From the EC
http://www.elections.org.nz/parties/listed-third-parties.html
Free Speech Coalition Trust
Applicant David Farrar
Financial Agent David Farrar
Listed 9 Jan ’08
Postal address PO Box 12270
Thorndon
Wellington
Street Address
53/70 Hobson Street
Thorndon
Wellington
Doesnt any of the connections Little has with the Labour party also apply to DPF and his connections with the National Party
April 4th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
GWW: perhaps. However, that would imply that any group that has as members almost anybody who is a member of a political party would be ineligible to register as a third party. That would make the law even more of an arse than it already was.
However, I think that your parallel doesn’t fit for the following reasons:
1. The law talks about the registering body as being a “person” – in this case a legal term. So, in the case of the Free Speech Coalition Trust, the Trust itself has no involvement in the National Party. Some, maybe even many, of its members have involvement in the National Party.
2. The EPMU as an entity has involvement in the Labour party – officials of the EPMU have status in the Labour party in respect of their position in the EPMU, not as individuals. This is a large distinction
3. I don’t believe that DPF currently holds any positions in the National party, therefore he is not involved. Being a contractor to the National party isn’t relevant – or anyone who worked for NZ Post wouldn’t be allowed to register as a third party, because NZ Post is a contractor to many political parties. If DPF was a current official somewhere within the National Party hierarchy then I would maybe agree with you.
April 4th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Don’t be silly Ghosty – DPF’s organisation does not have an expressly formalised relationship with the National Party like the Labour Party and the EPMU. If you could point out how the National Party constitution allows for members of the FSC to be board members, you might have a point. but you don’t
DPF also does not have other discrete yet formalised relationships with the National Party. For example, he doesn’t secretly host his blog on National Party servers.
Nor does he hide his employment as a part time contractor to National, as I recall him mentioning in a blog post some time ago. This is unlike other bloggers who refuse to identify either themselves or their employers despite suspicions they are either Labour Parliamentary staff, Labour head office workers, or EPMU workers dedicated to helping Labour.
April 4th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Congrats DPF – a brilliant piece of work.
It’s a shame an uneducated archaic organisation like the EPMU still exists in New Zealand, let alone that it has its greasy little fingers all over our electoral system.
It will be great to see them smacked back next week.
April 4th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
The issue about the Selwyn selection process, which stinks of corruption by a NP member who had his nomination overturned, is only marginally related to the registartion of third parties.
DPF gave a dubious reasoning in that case which has been shone to be inadequate much as his attempt to block the EPMU on behalf of the national party
Of course it will a lot of fun to have a court case about all the machinations in Selwyn, say in September/October
And in court you can bring out in the public all the dirty washing.
Much relish to be had.
Unless Payne is bought off by The Corrupt National party ( just did a paste from others who unchallenged say this about labour)
April 4th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
So Farrar has “created” the Free Speech Coalition Trust as a vehicle for HIM to criticise labour on nationals behalf.
They dont do anything other than run billboards
Then the EPMU can create say EPMU Trust as a separate legal entity to criticise other partys by advertising.
All above board according to DPF
April 4th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
No GWW, all above board according to the law passed by the government you support. I don’t think DPF makes the laws – if he did, then I’m pretty sure they would be different.
As to whether that would be morally right, that is a different question entirely. The actions of the Exclusive Brethren were entirely legal, but that didn’t stop them from being tried in the court of public opinion. I suspect if the EPMU did as you suggest they might find the same thing happening.
Unless the EC find in favour of the EPMU, I think that Labour and their affiliates will be best served by living with not being able to campaign this election – trying to win the argument just keeps the issue on the front pages of the papers. One front page headline costs more than the entire budget that a third party can spend (remember that argument about what it costs for a full page ad in the major NZ papers – imagine what a front page ad would cost). I think that Labour would be better served by living with the mess their own law made, and perhaps learning a lesson for next time about trying to be too clever by half.
April 4th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
shit – and Tane reckons I don’t understand! Ps is Tane’s absence here today indicative of his own inability to speak due to his links with the EPMU. Would it be ironic that the EFA, (which Tane so endorsed) as per warnings previously issued is in fact censoring his right to free speech even as we speak?
I only ask for information.
April 4th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
GWW. I told you you were thick. A Trust is not a legal entity. Read law dimwit.
April 4th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
http://www.elections.org.nz/news/ec-media-epmu-040408.html
April 4th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
or with bigger letters at http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0804/S00090.htm