Is Dixon’s win one of the top 10 sporting feats for a Kiwi?
The Dominion Post has a story on whether or not Scott Dixon’s win in the famous Indy 500 counts as one of the top ever sporting feats.
I’m with Keith Quinn in saying it does. Yes he is supported by a team, but the skills and endurance needed to win are immense, and the Indy 500 is such an iconic event that it has to rate up there.
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Tags: Indy 500, Scott Dixon, Sport
May 27th, 2008 at 11:24 am
No
May 27th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Yes
May 27th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Maybe
May 27th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Can you repeat the question?
It’s up there. If you narrow it a bit (including individual achievements in a team sport would lengthen the list considerably – Hadlee’s nine-wicket innings, Dan Carter’s greatest one-match performance etc.) then yes.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Arg, turning left while driving fast for several hours is hard, but I just can’t bring myself to consider it a major sporting accomplishment.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
While I am aware of the stresses that a body goes through in a performance motor vehicle, and the reaction-time and performance required, I would have difficulty in rating it a great sports achievement.
The reliance on technology to achieve the result, and the luck factor do detract somewhat. Still it is a remarkable achievemnt in his feild but it is as much of a technical achievement as a physical one.
I would rate an olympic gold as higher. My ten sporting achievements would be
Hillary climbing Everest, Ferguesson’s four golds at LA, Snell’s 2 golds, Loader’s 2 golds, Lovelock’s Gold in ’36, The RWC in ’87, Bob Charles British open, Campbell’s US Open, Hadlees 300th wicket, Mahe Drysdales 3 world championships.
Car racing, while a discipline, is as much a measure of machine than man.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
YES
NZ generally has a very focus on sporting acheivments. Generally, this servs the ‘chosen’ sports well, as it means we tend to focus on those sports as a nation with the nation giving both financial and moral support. However, cricket and RL for example are very minor sports on the world stage. In fact, being 3rd best team in the world at RL probably puts you closer to the bottom than the top….
Motor sport is a major player on the world stage, and it’s good to see a kiwi doing well again. I think it is appreciated that kiwi drivers and mechanics both have had to work on a shoe string and so are a proven resourceful group of people.
PS I never saw people like Mclaren and Amon and Hulme race at their best, but ever since I read about their exploits at leMans in the mid 60′s, i’ve wanted a Ford GT40
May 27th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Two and a half million U.S. Dollars says it is… mind you earning several million dollars just for carrying a set of golf clubs would also suggest the same.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Wont someone think of the carbon footprint?
May 27th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Car racing, while a discipline, is as much a measure of machine than man.
Indycars are all Dallara chassis powered by Honda motors running on Firestone tyres.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
No.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Yes, certainly. You have to understand a sport to appreciate it and since New Zealanders barely understand motor-racing, there is very little chance of this incredible achievement getting the recognition it deserves.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Indy cars run on ethanol
May 27th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Dixon was still better than all of the other drivers – so YES. There were plenty of mad passing manoeuvres that went on around him that could have cleaned out a lesser man, or relegated him to a lower placing, but did not.
While motorsport undoubtedly depends on the machine as well as the man, I doubt that it’s an easy thing to keep everything together for hours and hours in a light car that makes over 650hp at 10,300rpm! Like any top sport, you’re up against a lot of other very good people who want it too…
May 27th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Considering his qualifying speed was 365 kms or there abouts and the prestige of the event it is most definitely up there.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Restrict it to the last 20 or 25 years and the answer is probably yes.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Any comments made along the lines of, “Motor racing is not as much of a physical challenge as (insert sport of choice here)” are almost certainly made out of ignorance.
Motorsport is possibly *the* most physically intensive sport there is. It amounts to (in this case) three and a half hours of non-stop isometric pressure. Heart rate in the vicinity of 180-200bpm for the duration. This is not broken in to 40minute halves with 10 minutes of oranges in the middle. There is no period of ‘respite’ when a penalty is taken or the ‘ball’ is at the other end of the field, no physiotherapist to run onto the track and give you a massage if you start to cramp. And any lapse in concentration risks getting you killed rather than just conceding a point.
Racing the Indianapolis 500 is more akin to running a marathon than any other physical comparison that I can think of.
What intrigues me is that Scott has already won the entire championship that Indy500 is one round of. (very nearly won it twice) …yet this singular race win gains so much more kudos?
May 27th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Yeah…don’t know who it was – Denny Hulme or someone – apparently won the entire F1 Championship a few decades ago. SURELY a much better accomplishment than this.
May 27th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
YES YES YES!
Scott Dixon just does the business – never any excuses, no prima-donna attitude, no faux nationalistic jingoism.
He has won the big one (well as big as you get wrt stateside motor-racing) which is more than our pampered national teams such as rugby, league, cricket etc have managed in decades. All they seem to be able to win is the pre-match haka – and only then because the opposition don’t do it.
This is a huge accomplishment. Only in introverted, insecure, uptight NZ would we be grizzling about how valid this win is – everywhere else in the world they would be lauding his achievement.
YES YES YES!
May 27th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
And……………… he was born in Australia.
It is an enormous accomplishment, the single most famous motor race in the world. 300,000 six fingered banjo players in the crowd.
Brilliant, good on him.
May 27th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
From my memory & comparative analysis, Dixon is only behind: Hillary (if this meets the definition of sporting feat or is it really another kind of exploration feat), Snell, Fergusson, Campbell, The All Whites in 82, The Tall Blacks in 04?, Bob Charles and Loader. I would therefore have him 8th or 9th with Hamish Carter rounding out the top ten.
Slightlyrighty said his best ten were: “Hillary climbing Everest, Ferguesson’s four golds at LA, Snell’s 2 golds, Loader’s 2 golds, Lovelock’s Gold in ‘36, The RWC in ‘87, Bob Charles British open, Campbell’s US Open, Hadlees 300th wicket, Mahe Drysdales 3 world championships.”
Winning gold is not necessarily determinative. An obvious (and regular omission from NZ’ers sporting thought processes) is the unbelievable All Whites qualification for the Football World Cup against all odds. To make it into the elite 24 teams in that cup is easily in NZ’s top ten sporting achievements given the opposition strength. The fact that the All Whites did not make it further is immaterial to their achievement in just qualifying.
The Basketball 4th placing is another (on the same logic as football).
And if an Olympic gold is so great then where is Hamish Carter, Rob Waddell and Sarah Ulmer (just to name a few). Its competition (opposition quality that turns a gold into truly one of the best ever gold’s, not merely the gold itself).
Hadlee is one of our best sportsmen and best cricketer, but if you are going cricket, the ICC Trophy win by the Black Caps is clearest contender.
The only reason Rugby features is that the AB’s have never won it since, but this must be discounted since how many other strong teams are their in world rugby that could match the AB’s? Be honest and admit its 1-4 only. How does that make it a great sporting feat again? When the AB’s finally break their hoodoo will their next 3 world cup victories also be in the top ten “great sporting feats?” Ludicrous.
AG
May 27th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
As he is an ocker I can’t see how it counts as a “top 10 kiwi thing”.
May 27th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
No and I was a bit put out that it dominated TVNZ’s news coverage last night, to be perfectly Francis. Dear God, wasn’t there anything else going on in the world? In addition to several more worthy achievements listed above, I would add Anthony Wilding’s 11 grand slam tennis titles and four Davis Cups; Jason Wynyard’s multiple world championships; Blake’s Whitbread, Jules Verne and Americas Cup accomplishments (even though I personally loathe yachting) among the top 10 and that’s not even going near rugby, cricket, athletics, league, sevens or netball.
May 27th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Another sporting success by the greatest sporting nation on earth…Australia!
Mind you…calling motor racing sport is stretching things somewhat, its a bit like horse racing in that respect.
May 27th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
NO NZer has done this before…..that rates up at No1 for me
May 27th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
simo
Dixon is NOT an NZer
May 27th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Isn’t he? I’d have thought being born to Kiwi parents and returning to NZ while still an infant would have qualified him. So what if he was born in Brisbane? My daughter was born in London, but it doesn’t make her English. A man might be born in a stable but it doesn’t make him a horse, as Wellington was once supposed to have said.
May 27th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Yep, and as regards the carbon footprint, they plant trees after each NASCAR, Indycar and Formula 1 race to offset emissions…it’s true…
and if Dixon isn’t a Kiwi, then neither is Andrew Mehrtens (born in Durban). big bruv, you are being churlish. Irene Van Dyk is NOT a NZer.
and slightly OT but still on sport, Graham Henry is clearly a wanker or an idiot: “Former All Blacks rugby enforcer Jerry Collins would not have been selected for the upcoming tests against Ireland and England, according to head coach Graham Henry. Henry said the 27-year-old’s form for the Hurricanes did not warrant his inclusion in the squad.”
What a four letter word beginning with C.
May 27th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
BB, Geez mate, cant we just enjoy the achievement without having to quantify that he is a Kiwi?
Next you will be saying that the Silver Ferns are not a national team because Irene Van Dyk is there sinking the shots. Or Precious McKenzies weight lifting medals are South African not Kiwi.
I’m sure that there are hundreds of examples (Brad Thorn in the crusaders?) of immigrants doing the sporting business for New Zealand. We should be proud of them all.
Most of the other top tens all relied on equipment and teams to enable those achievements so Dixon’s is right up there.
May 27th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
big bruv (2:03pm) – “Dixon is NOT an NZer”
Try telling that to Scott Dixon! He was VERY emphatic that he is a New Zealander (not an Aussie) last night during his TV interview.
May 27th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
No
but neither is the 1996 All Black tour of SA
still think the Tall Blacks 4th in the basketball worlds champs is the greatest performance
If Lewis had won Wimbledon then that probably would have been
May 27th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Gerrit:…Off topic, but in the is he or isn’t he argument Brad Thorn was born in New Zealand.
May 27th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Look I have no problem with Dixon calling himself a Kiwi however we Kiwi’s should be prepared to show the same good grace to those Kiwi’s who were born here but end up playing for Aussie in their chosen sport.
Given the huge numbers leaving for Aussie it will not be long before the Aussie cricket team select a Kiwi born player, will we respect the players choice?…I am not so sure about that………(mind you, given how shit our cricket team is who the hell would want to play for us when you have the option of playing for the Ockers)
May 27th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Yes.
Get the fence post out of your ass David.
May 27th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Slightly to left: How is winning Wimbledon any tougher than winning the British Open or US Open in Golf? Wilding dominated (but the field was not as strong).
Snell (without Hillary) is my number 1.
Anyone is a kiwi who has a legitimate claim to be one. Dixon clearly is as he came to NZ at 5 and considers himself a kiwi. There are indications of this: ie take these examples:
Brad Thorn is an Aussie (you cant be both). It is arguable Thorn is only here to play for money and be in the AB’s. He played league for Australia and in time will settle back in Australia (once he makes his money in the UK).
Van Dyk was a South African who has now become a New Zealander (isn’t she married to one?). I have no doubt she will live here after netball. She considers herself to be a New Zealander.
May 27th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
glubbster
“How is winning Wimbledon any tougher than winning the British Open or US Open in Golf?”
well its probably not
hard to gauge really
I guess im going on the odds
Campbell winning US Open was at 80/1 at majority of bookmakers
Lewis winning Wimbledon was apparently 500/1
remember I said “If he had won”
since he didnt I dont think I would rank it in the top 10
Tall Blacks 2002 World Champs (including the 2001 qualifying of)
Peter Snell
1982 All Whites
thats my top three I guess
May 27th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
> Car racing, while a discipline, is as much a measure of machine than man.
Bollocks. Obviously you’ve never tried it then.
May 27th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Possibly one of the greatest sporting achievements of the last few decades anyway. I rule out the 87 RWC win, as we were at a far superior level to the other teams at the time, now we’re just 1 of many contenders.
I also think we tend to forget about our athletes in the ‘lesser sports’, until they win. Whereas we hear about the all blacks, black caps, silver ferns etc at least daily.
Rugby is played by a relatively small number of people worldwide, whereas motor sport is participated in by a large number of people worldwide.
Really we should have more sports news focused on sports like motor sport, and less on rugby. Then we might even get more people to the game
May 27th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
I bet the socialists are spitting blood being the huge motorsports fans they are (tui ad). I hope places like leftwing dorkland now realise that motorsport has more followers then the arts, ballet and all that other highbrow cultured bullshit that the left swoon over. One only has to look at what dorkland throught of the V8s.
Has Dear Leader congratulated Dixon yet?. Being a lover of high speeds she of all people should reaconise this huge achivement.
May 27th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Lol, I guess that rules out Snell’s running around in circles achievements…
May 27th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
“Dixon is NOT an NZer”
Well Roger Nome was born on a ship, but it doesnt make him a Queen Mary – or does it?
May 27th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Come on guys, Dixon did very well, however motor racing (like horse racing) can hardly be described as sport.
May 27th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
He is a superb and highly focussed sportsman but no, not yet.
Just getting a Formula 1 drive would be pretty close though!
Winning a Formula 1 Championship with an Indy Championship would put him in the Top 10 of all time.
May 27th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
My top 10 would be:
Hillary
Snell
Anthony Wilding
Charles
Loader
Halberg – Olympic 5,000m and first NZ to Break 4 minute Mile
Walker
Susan Devoy
Hulme
Mark Todd
I think you have to dominate your sport at world level to rate – Charles and Halberg probably didn’t do that but they are in because of the uniqueness of their major achievements.
Buggerlugs – re Jerry Collins – I am with Henry.
This year he has been a seagull with his onging touch of thuggery still present. Every other franchise had a better No6 than him and some had more than one. Even though I am from the Hurricanes area I am not sad to see the back of him – Michael Johnson would have been better value this year and he never even got a game.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
No dual language anthem, no haka, no nauseating suckholing to NZ’s “native culture”, it can’t be any kind of an achievement..
May 27th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Ah Ratbleater, always the little ray of sunshine.
It’s an achievement, I’d like to see him in F1 though!
May 27th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Just thought of a sporting achievement that is unlikely to get mentioned but is in my top ten.
Christian Cullen – won almost every (actually might have been every) big race asked of him
absolutely destroyed a top class Miracle Mile field which is a race made up of the best performed Australasian pacers
I mean he just lengthed them! They couldn’t keep up
May 27th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
short shrivelled etc
If you go the Christian Cullen way then how about Cardigan Bay the first pacer/trotter to win $1m in stakes.
May 27th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
In most cases, I believe longevity at the top trumps brilliant one-offs.
1. Ed Hillary – the exception to the above rule.
2. Team NZ 1995-9 – Russell Coutts world’s best-ever yachtsman.
3. Tony Wilding – the Federer of his day, dominant for six years.
4. Peter Snell – NZ’s athlete of the century.
5. Bob Fitzsimmons – multiple world boxing champ, raised in Timaru.
6. Jack Lovelock – for the perfectly-executed race and world record when it mattered.
7. John Walker – for his longevity at the top and world records.
8. Jonah Lomu – 1995-99 World Cups – world’s only rugby superstar, despite kidney disease.
9. Todd – world rider of the century.
10. 1905 Original All Blacks – revolutionised the sport and changed NZ.
11. Scott Dixon – Indy 500 plus earlier series win. (10th if you don’t count Fitzsimmons as Kiwi.)
Michael Campbell, Bob Charles – brilliant one-offs, but neither among golf’s greats.
1987 All Blacks – won the World Cup at home without South Africa, who had thrashed most of them (as the Cavaliers) the year before. To be great, you have to win when it matters against all the best teams. I’d rate the 1961-69 All Blacks as better for that reason. They lost, I think, only two tests and no series in those nine years.
May 28th, 2008 at 12:24 am
Motorsport a sport??
How can it possibly be so if there is no oval ball involved??!!
And Dixon a great sportsman?? how can he possibly be if he’s not surrounded by beer swilling mates RA RA!!
Get real guys. True sportsmen have hairy chests and stick their nose up each others arses while fighting over a leather pill.
Anything else is just pretending!
open your minds!
Wait for the Sportsman of the Year is announced and you’ll all see I’m right!
May 28th, 2008 at 12:25 am
On a list of greatest ever sportsmen. On a list of feats, it’s individual one-off brilliance we’re looking at. Comparing a life-time of achievement with a single flawless performance is pretty much pointless.
Peter Heidenstrom wrote a great book a few years back (called something like New Zealand’s athlete of the century), where the author looked at all the athletic feats of New Zealanders across the decades used them to come up with the top male and female athletes from each decade and then the top male and female athlete for the century. It came down to Peter Snell vs Yvette Williams/Corlett, and Williams’ brilliance across the range won her the day (or is that the century?).
There was the long jump at Helsinki and the world record, there were also Empire golds in the Long Jump (twice), shot, and discuss and a javelin silver, as a final of the 80m hurdles! Not to mention representing the country at Basketball. She’d have been a shoe-in for a heptathlon medal (if they’d had them at the time).
May 28th, 2008 at 12:36 am
“Yeah…don’t know who it was – Denny Hulme or someone – apparently won the entire F1 Championship a few decades ago. SURELY a much better accomplishment than this.”
Your memory serves you, ah, kind of – 1967 F1 Champion was Denny Hulme, and yes, that was a greater achievement than Scott’s.
But Denny would roll over in his grave to to hear someone using his name to denigrate one of the greatest motorsports achievements by a NZer. It’s hardly a mutually exclusive acclaim.
Please excuse my sarcastic contribution above but I was sickened by the ignorance of motorsport displayed by many posters and the disparaging way such ignorami commented on a stunning sporting achievement.
So typical of the kiwi attitude to winners – can’t imagine Aussies being down on one of their winners like so many of the losers here!! Strikes to the core of our national psyche. And we wonder why we are falling so far behind……………….
May 28th, 2008 at 9:13 am
Fair comment Graeme, I hadn’t realised the breadth of Yvette Williams’ achievements.
I don’t know enough to comment, but did she break world records as well? That would clinch her inclusion. I think world records should be used as a tie-breaker when deciding between athletes. Snell was incredibly dominant in his day, as was Walker, and both set world records, though the latter was never tested against Filbert Bayi at the Olympics.
It could be that Valerie Vili will qualify as one of the greatest by the time she’s finished too.
Inevitably, choosing the greatest must take into account the worldwide profile of the sport and the amount of worldwide media exposure an event generates. Otherwise the likes of Ivan Mauger and Susan Devoy would figure more highly.
In that case, Hulme, Campbell and Charles should be on my list at the expense of Todd, the Originals and… who? Hmmm. I give up.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:17 am
Fair point Labrator, though Dixon had a machine to do all the ‘moving forward’. I accept this is an argument that will probably never be settled.
rightofleftcentre, thanks I think
though I wasn’t denigrating Dixon’s achievement.
May 28th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Motor racing a sport, hmm, nope, any endeavor where women
can compete on an equal footing along side males can hardly be
called a sport.
May 28th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Patrick Starr (6:57pm) – if Roger Nome was born on a ship it doesn’t make him a Queen Mary.
But it does make him a floater.
May 28th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
John Ansell I don’t think you should write Chalres off as a oncer as he did not crumble like Michael Campbell and Craig Perks both did after their big wins. Charles was consistently in the top echelon of golfers through the rest of the 60′s and early 70′s. He was also the first ever Left Hander to win one of the Majors.
Charles also was one of the top 2 or 3 money earners for the firsat 3 or 4 years of the Seniors Tours so he certainly meets the longevity criteria.
Right of Centre – I am not a motor racing fan of any type but two people I overlooked were dirt bikers Barry Briggs and Ivan Mauger. I had Hulme in my 10 but when I think about it I wonder if McLaren is not more deserving because of the legacy he left.
May 28th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Whenever people in this rugby obsessed nation discuss the top sporting kiwi feats they always overlook what I consider to be easily the greatest sporting achievement by far.
To clarify my comments I have to say that I also would consider myself to be a bit of a rugby nut (well I was until this year anyway) however that does not stop me from appreciating the amazing levels of success and achievement attained by Wynton Rufer.
Rufer played in the European leagues at a time when it was almost unthinkable for somebody from this part of the world to do so, not only did he participate in throe leagues he was consistently one of the star performers, sadly his achievements go almost unnoticed by the average kiwi sports fan.
Make no mistake Rufer is a much bigger sporting name in Europe than any you may care to mention, given that football is the worlds number one game I would suggest he is without doubt our most famous and highest achieving sportsman.
May 28th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
I disagree with Campbell. He has not had consistent form. He has won a handful of majors. Dixon has been a top-three driver for six years in the IRL now, with multiple wins, a championship and an Indy title to his name.
It annoys me that people forget Hulme so readily. For a New Zealander to do what he did today would almost certainly assure them of A-grade celebrity status, and his acheivement is even more impressive as he was a number two driver in what was far from the quickest car on the grid. He almost won it again the year after, as well.
Let’s have some credit where credit is due.
May 29th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
I think people are forgetting that we are talking about the 10 greatest sporting feats. Therefore, the consistency of a player is irrelevant. The reality is that golf has a much bigger pool of talent than it used to and for that reason, Campbell’s achievement ranks in my top ten ahead of Charles. The fact that Charles is a lefty is irrelevant.
Big Bruv I echo your points about Rugby one-eyeness. However, Rufer has never completed any remarkable sporting feat.
However, the All Whites did in 82 and if you look at my above post, you will see they are in my top 5.
Saying Rufer (recognised as Oceania’s greatest footballer) is in the top ten is like saying Hadlee and one of our many good rugby players should be too. If you want to do a best ten sportpersons list then by all means, but you are off topic here.
May 29th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
You’re talking about Campbell and consistency? He’s hopeless – utter crap. Look at Tiger, constantly near the front. When he has a bad day, it’s big news. Dixon is always near the front.
May 29th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Oops. Sorry about that.
Sure, Campbell’s consistency doesn’t matter in the context of sporting feats, but it wrong for him to be awarded Sportsman of the Year for a one-off performance.
May 30th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
That is complete rubbish dog-eat-dog, Cambo had a fantastic year – also winning the world matchplay and scoring another top ten at the British Open. Just because he has lost it for the last year does not mean he is not NZ’s greatest golfer to date and one of the top 10 achievements from a NZ sportsperson/team to date. Charles and Cambo have done wonderful things for NZ golf.
Golf, tennis, football and basketball are 4 of the toughest sports just becuase of the sheer competition.
Everyone is awarded the silly Halberg award for one off performances. ie Hamish Carter won the Olympic Gold, yet Bevan had a better overall season. However the OG is the pinnacle for Triathletes.
I dont actually rate the Halberg awards anyway, they are a ceremonious joke, with decisions often terrible – best example was when the All Whites did not receive one, despite making the World Cup, a feat only dreamt about by NZ footballers. From that point, its credibility was irrepairably damaged in my eyes.