Shabby behaviour as usual
May 16th, 2008 at 4:15 pm by David FarrarJust to show that there is no shame, have a look at how Labour Ministers both claimed wrongly a National MP had said something he had not, but then how nasty they get, and how the Speaker protects them. From yesterday:
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith: What changed between the time when David Cunliffe, the then Minister of Immigration, was briefed, as he now alleges, on completion of the Oughton inquiry in July of last year, and when he himself was fully briefed in December last year on the Oughton report—what changed between then and April this year, when the Oughton report was exposed to public scrutiny, other than the fact that the cover-up was over?
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE: In order to assist the member, I tell him that the previous Minister was not briefed in December. I was the Minister at that time.
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith: I said you.
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE: No, the member said “the Minister at the time”, and “the previous Minister”.
Now have a look at the Hansard. Lockwood clearly refers to David Cunliffe as per-December and Cosgrove as the Minister in December as he says “he himself” in the question to Cosgrove. Cosgrove is clearly wrong with his insistance Lockwood had it wrong.
Hon Dr Nick Smith: You’re wrong.
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE: I think we may need stretcher-bearers for one particular member. This is a serious issue, and should be dealt with in a serious way. We may need stretcher-bearers for the other Dr Smith. Can I say—
Now again remember Cosgrove is in the wrong here, and Nick Smith is correct in backing up Lockwood. So what does Cosgrove do – resort to the normal smear they use against Nick.
Hon Dr Nick Smith: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker.
Madam SPEAKER: There is a point of order; it will be heard in silence.
Hon Dr Nick Smith: The Minister, in reciting my colleague Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith’s question, was mistaken in his restating of the course of events. In response to an interjection from me saying that he was wrong, I was then subjected to personal abuse. I think it would be helpful if Dr Smith re-asked his question—in which his dating and timing were correct—because it seems that the Minister was confused about the question that my colleague Dr Smith was asking.
Nick doesn’t respond to the taunt, but just makes the point that the Ministers were mistaken so the question should be re-asked, so the Minister addresses the correct question.
Hon David Parker: I, as well as Minister Clayton Cosgrove, listened carefully to the question, and I am clear that the question that was asked included the imputation that the Minister was the prior Minister, not the current Minister, and that is the point to which Mr Cosgrove was responding.
David Parker jumps in, and also has it clearly wrong, as the Hansard shows.
Madam SPEAKER: I thank members for their interventions. I think if members would keep the noise down, it would be easier to hear. As I have said, interjections do occasion responses. Would the Minister please just respond to the question as succinctly as possible.
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It would appear that confusion has arisen around my question. It was very clear. I would be very happy to repeat it to avoid that confusion.
Madam SPEAKER: No, I think we should take it in the order it was. I am happy to look at the Hansard. I heard it also in the way that, I am afraid, others did. The member, obviously, feels that he did ask another question. As I said, I am happy to go and look at it later. Could we have a succinct answer to the question, and there is always an opportunity to ask another question—there are still supplementary questions available.
And now the Speaker also gets it wrong, and even worse won’t let Lockwood re-ask the question, despite the fact clearly the Ministers misheard what he said.
Hon Annette King: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. We are on question No. 8 and we have had Dr Nick Smith running interference on every question across the House. He is not asking questions; he is just interjecting and yelling out personal comments. I think we have just about had enough today, and I ask you to require him not to continue going on in that fashion.
Annette seems to have missed the log in her own colleague’s eyes.
Madam SPEAKER: Well, I think that today comments have been made from all sides of the House. Obviously, it does create disorder, and it has. Members have noted the comments that have been made from all sides of the House on this matter. Could I please ask the Minister to succinctly address the question, and then we will ask Dr Smith to ask the question again. Thank you.
And then the Speaker totally confused says Cosgove will answer/address the question, and then have it re-asked!!! And then it isn’t!
Labour have been warned many times over their repeated goes at Nick with references to taking pills, and now out on a stretcher. That is bad enough at any time, but Labour may wish to consider the old saying that those in glass houses should not throw stones.
Tags: Annette King, Clayton Cosgrove, David Parker, Lockwood Smith, Margaret Wilson, Nick Smith
May 16th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Pathetic stuff. There are are things lying on their backs at the bottom of ponds that have more ability than Madam Speaker.
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
I told you we would die of boredom with this once Lockwood ‘Blue Chip’ Smith got involved.
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
ghostie – well at least we don’t die of boredom with you around. In single posts you manage to collate and deliver stupidity, hubris, lies, irrelevance, irreverence, rudeness and nervous fixations.
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Sounds a lot like the general to’ing and fro’ing with our very own sonic.
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Did Harry Potter live in a glass house?
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
gs get some perspective, or as I saw in one headline about China
Pandas, Tourists Safe After Quake; Local Towns Leveled
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/05/080514-wolong-quake.html
I’m just following the KB banner, formenting mischief
[DPF: And 10 demerits for off topic]
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Nasty stuff from labour again. I feel sick that I help pay their salaries.
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Mr Clayton Cosgrove has an interesting history.
If there’s anyone who is surprised by his tactics they should talk to someone who was a shareholder in the old GRD or Gold Resources Development company which at one stage owned the Macraes gold mine in Otago. Clayton was the public relations officer, or communications manager, or whatever the moniker of the time was for the media spokesman. The company was registered in New Zealand. Its shares traded on the New Zealand Stock Exchange, but it was based in Perth, and that’s where majority control lay.
Many (perhaps nearly all) of the NZ shareholders felt they got done when the company wound up. They felt that GRD got away with it because of the technicality of being split across Australia and NZ (let’s hope the regulations have since tightened).
Clayton wasn’t the person making and driving the decisions but he was the hired executive who had to try to sell their story.
It’s a bit like having to sell Clark’s crap.
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
This is the most pressing issue of that the National party research unit has to get worked up about? (I am assuming that DPF doesnt sit there glued to question time taking notes on all the little squabbles).
The original question was unclearly worded, granted it was rather semantical to make an issue of it. But to elevate this childish squabble on both sides to a “smear” and “nasty”.???!!!
I think the National Party Research Unit hacks are getting a little isolated from the real world and the real issues that concern the electorate if this is the best they can come up with for our entertainment today!!
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
I watched Cosgrove’s performance on Parliament TV. He’s obviously best receipted and filed as an arch blustering BS artist.
Btw: What on Earth is going on with his hair? It looks like some horrific hair transplant experiment that went disasterously wrong.
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
NPG
It blows me away that your lot is so devoid of integrity, that even though Labour has destroyed (and yes NZ is, in a word, #$%^%$) this country, lowered the standard of behavior in public office to that below par for a public house, you and your mates still have the gall to even say something. As if your opinion has any merit whatsoever. News flash! Labour is corrupt, nasty and criminal, but they have managed to lower the levels to such a degree, that even the opposition will tolerate it. Wow!
I so look forward to tomorrow. NPG, lets chat tomorrow after some poll results.
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
What a complete waste of parliamentary time, all those people sitting round squabbling over words, and being paid more than most of us to do it. It reminds me of one time a few years back when I listened to parliament on National Radio, and they were discussing who would win the rugby that weekend.
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Flashy, that is what is called a punch and grow. clearly it has failed.
Vote:David why can a labour minister get personal about opposition members but every time anybody on here starts speculating about labour ministers you spit the dummy?
May 16th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
NPOG:
I’m sorry you think Ministers of the Crown evading a basic (and hardly onerous) level of Parliamentary scrutiny is a trivial matter, especially when the matter at hand involves the integrity of the Immigration Service. You might also think it’s clever to make snide references to a Member’s health, but one might think Madame Speaker would beg to differ given her own physical disability.
If Cosgrove can’t handle Question Time — or even pretend to give a straight answer to a straight question –, there’s nothing stopping him handing in his ministerial warrant and having a little nap on the backbenches. Don’t think anyone would miss him.
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
love liarbour it gives me a purpose in life,love pissing on (in my own way) LIARBOUR and toadies gww (antisemitic pig) sonic (boom,, piss and wind) and roger nome, (nothing not worth a comment) , post and get your 30 pieces of silver toadies , its your shift, lefties
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
I think every time this happens National just need to casually mention Labour’s bipolar candidate for Epsom and perhaps the problem will go away.
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Poor Cosgrove, as effective as a keg of Claytons at a biker party.
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Now, DPF, I have little time for Cosgrove (one of the most hopeless Labour Ministers imo), but I do think he’s being treated a little unfairly by you and some of the punters here.
His officials’ advice, as I understand it, was that s 33 of the State Sector Act precluded him from intervening. The advice may have been wrong, but it would be a very unwise Minister who unilaterally disregarded advice from Departmental solicitors or the Crown Law Office without getting a second opinion.
Maybe he should have sought independent legal advice, but I really don’t think he (or Cunliffe, for that matter) are the real villains in this.
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Classic obfuscation. After 9 years in opposition dealing with their tactics daily, why weren’t National (a) prepared and (b) savage?
They behaved like confused pussies.
If you can’t beat Liarbore in the House all the time at this time, you never will. Get some balls.
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
BlairM said: I think every time this happens National just need to casually mention Labour’s bipolar candidate for Epsom and perhaps the problem will go away.
Shame on you BlairM. I thought we had got past the stage that people were harassed or discriminated on the basis of disability.
I actually have no idea (and no interest) in who Labour’s candidate for Epsom is, but I find it appalling that if that person has or had a mental illness, there are people like BlairM will attack them on that basis.
Nick Smith (whom I certainly do not support politically) has been persistently tormented on this issue by some Labour MPs in Parliament ever since he suffered from a brief mental health issue that resulted in him relinquishing the Deputy Leadership.
And I say shame on Labour for that. And on you, BlairM, for comments above, whatever substance may lie behind the allegation.
Let’s judge our candidates on their political capacity, rather than on their health (unless the latter effects the former, as it did with Muldoon and several of his Cabinet 30 years ago, and Mark Peck more recently).
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Quite agree toad, ad homina is only used by scum. Interesting it’s used most often by lefty politicians.
And it’s not Labour, it’s Liarbore.
Let’s be correct here,
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
“I’m sorry you think Ministers of the Crown evading a basic (and hardly onerous) level of Parliamentary scrutiny is a trivial matter”
Oh Craig, don’t be so precious, it really doesnt suit you.
MPs on both sides have acted like jerks during question time since Jesus was a cowboy.
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
NPOG, maybe that’s the problem but it’s been mitigated in the past by a neutral Speaker. Politicians will always treat Questions as a game – to their individual shame since it’s abusing we voters. It’s a unique and illuminating shame that all the referees we have had during this particular Administration have been so unwilling to blow the whistle of justice and neutrality.
Big shame, and very very telling on the governing party’s attitude toward the voting public.
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
reid – the problem isn’t that Margaret Wilson isn’t neutral. I don’t think she is biased. It is more that Margaret Wilson is completely out of her depth, and the Members all know it. As a result, Ministers try crap like this on repeatedly, knowing that the Speaker is just too bewildered to respond.
Vote:May 16th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
The National party remind me in many ways of the All Blacks. In the late 70’s it was apparent the AB’s were a bit soft, and lacking some ‘mongrel’ – in came Mark (Cowboy) Shaw.
Vote:The Nats don’t have many real mongrels, the Labs have more than a few.
Winning the debate in the house is very important – although it is difficult when the speaker is like a ‘16th player’
May 16th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Completely disagree greenjacket. Since appointment she has proved herself to be the most biased Speaker in my memory. You can cite example after example but what most annoys me is her repeated refusal to require Ministers to answer even the most innocuous questions: e.g.
http://wellingtonhive.blogspot.com/2008/03/cullen-rules-parliament.html
Other examples include:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2008/03/media_access_tightened_in_parliament.html
Vote:May 17th, 2008 at 2:43 am
Being a disingenuous hack is your standard m.o., so you’re hardly someone who guidance on manners and morals has much credibility with me.
That’s truly pathetic. As I’ve had to say to you on numerous occasions, I don’t accept ‘everyone does it’ or ‘they did it first’ as an excuse for behaving like a douche-bag from children, so why should it be any more convincing from (alleged) adults?
Vote:May 17th, 2008 at 7:22 am
“Quite agree toad, ad homina is only used by scum. Interesting it’s used most often by lefty politicians.”
and always used by opportunists – Winston first
Vote:May 17th, 2008 at 7:57 am
Adam has updated his posts on the Immigration Scandal following John Armstrongs piece in the Herald today, for those interested
http://adamsmith.wordpress.com/2008/05/17/680/
Vote:May 17th, 2008 at 8:10 am
nice cover. the dirt runs deep here.
Vote:May 17th, 2008 at 8:26 am
Where is NPOG, Tane, BullshitterRN , GWW and others when you need them?
http://stuff.co.nz/4551392a6160.html
Help I need you guys to bullshit your way out of this one!
New Zealand is standing up (by God i thought that kiwis had turned into gutless wimps, I am ecstatic that I was wrong) and they have said we have had enough of unprincipled criminals running the country, and we have had enough of your corrupt mob. You have screwed this nation enough. I cannot wait for another poll that is rumored to be out in the next 3 to 4 days and is said to be worse than this one for Liarbore, by another 4 %. As you sow, so shall you reap, a wise man said.
Vote:May 17th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Is this pack or kindergarted rejects want to throw stones in a glass house David I will GIVE them a catapult so we can hurry up and this scum out of OUR house.
Thats our parliament they’re denegrating people, not theirs. They just go there every now and then so we’ll pay them.
Vote:May 17th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
If the Media read adamsmith’s blogsite: “Inquiring mind” they would learn what investigative journalism is all about.
It shows where MPs and Police are falling down on the Job. It is far better reading than “Investigate”. Exposes the humunguous cover-up that is going on.
Keep up the good work
Vote:May 17th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Madam Speaker should be asked why she has not dealt with this personal abuse against Nick Smith. Parliament is a robust place of debate (or avoiding debate if you are a Labour minister). There is some question as to where the line should be drawn but I would think the line is quite clearly crossed when there is a systematic and calculated attack on a member about his mental health. At the same time the rest of us are being educated that the greatest barrier to recovery is discrimination Minister’s of the Crown continue to use mental health taunts to avoid being subjected to scrutiny.
Madam Speaker should pull the chief whips in and tell them that the next mental health jibe will result in the member concerned being Named.
Vote: