Armstrong on Smears
John Armstrong sees Labour’s smears as hurting Labour:
So obsessed is Labour with destroying John Key that the party seems blinkered to the damage this is doing to Labour’s already-slight chances of winning the coming election. …
Clark herself launched an attack on her rival in Parliament on Wednesday.
That it miscued badly suggests Labour’s fixation with persuading voters Key has feet of clay is clouding its judgment. …
But Labour’s constant chipping away at Key does not seem to be making any headway.
That is because Labour has failed to display any sense of proportion. It has seized on anything that might put Key in a bad light no matter how small or trivial and brandished it as evidence Key is not up to it.
Yep, next we will hear that he once jaywalked as proof positive Helen should be able to reign forever.
This has proved counter-productive. Voters _ especially crucial female “swing” voters _ have a profound distaste for politicians launching personal attacks on one another’s character. The Prime Minister’s attack on Key may have done more damage to her credibility than his.
I’m not the most dispassionate observer but Clark comes across very badly on TV when she is fronting one of those attacks. It makes her most unattractive, and I don’t mean physically.
Clark’s gaffe echoed the previous week’s similar backfire by Labour over Key’s supposed ignorance of the New Zealand wars of the 19th century.
That was another case of Labour picking up and running with something that was shot full of holes. Key had been quoted out of context and the radio station that first ran the story backed off hurriedly as the story began to fall over.
It is a moot point whether the public gave a toss anyway about what Key was supposed to have said. These kind of arguments are the stuff of the Wellington Beltway.
I think it is worse than that. The public are hurting with food and petrol prices, and a shrinking economy. They are looking to the Government for some leadership. And what they see is a Government more focused on trivial smears than on the issues which matter to New Zealanders.
It isn’t going to happen because Labour has cried wolf too often. It has jumped on any mistake Key has made, no matter how trivial, and highlighted it as incontrovertible evidence of his unsuitability to be Prime Minister.
Labour sees the mistakes as compounding on one another. It lays the message that Key is a lightweight on thick with a trowel. But the highlighting of minor errors only makes Labour look ever more desperate. So what if Key said “condone” this week when he meant “condemn”.
He holds the high ground when it comes to attacks on political personalities. He has now cleverly boxed Labour in by labelling its tactics as “smear and fear” politics.
Quite simply, Labour needs to stop playing the man and start playing the ball.
I can safely predict there is really no chance of this. Simply put, Labour is desperate and dateless and has nothing else to offer.
July 5th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Perhaps they haven’t got any more balls to play with.
July 5th, 2008 at 9:28 am
“This has proved counter-productive. Voters – especially crucial female “swing” voters – have a profound distaste for politicians launching personal attacks on one another’s character.”
It will be interesting to see how insightful Armstrong is with this comment. It must be said that, so far in the polls, PM Clark has retained a remarkably high level of preference amongst female respondents. At times there seems to be a greater divide between male and female voters than between town and country.
In addition, it’s questionable whether females are more likely to be “swing” voters than their male counterparts.
July 5th, 2008 at 9:29 am
I spent a couple of days arguing this on the VDS last week. Apart from one respondent, who seems to represent the future rather than the past of the Labour Party, the majority of repsonses were feigned confusion, insulting, questioning of my credentials denial, etc. I think they are locked into ‘attack’ mode and the sad fact is they are locked in by Helen herself, which to me suggests this election is becoming her ‘last stand’, not only agains the electorate, and the National Party, but against more moderated factions within her own Party.
When they come to do the autopsy after the election, they will come to realise that the ‘nasty’ blogsters woking to the Nasty Helen blueprint will have been instrumental in Labour’s defeat.
I did mention this too, but it fell on stoney ground I am afraid. Ah well.
SOme advice for Helen.
‘You got to know when to hold ‘em,
Know when to fold ‘em
Know when to walk away,
Know when to run.
Yo never count your winnings,
When you’re sitting at the table,
There’ll be time enough to count ‘em
When the dealings done…”
Looks like the real ‘Gamblers’ in this election are really starting to show themselves up.
July 5th, 2008 at 9:37 am
Funny that Mr. Armstrong should suddenly express such an objective opinion. I don’t remember any such views when Don Brash was being slammed by the left. In fact all I remember is the media carrying on like a pack of baying hyenas in full support of Labour. What could have brought on this change? Couldn’t have been increased scrutiny and criticism of the media’s partisanship on the blogosphere could it?? Naaah. Couldn’t be.
As for any change in Labour’s attack Key strategy, you’re damn right there Mr. Farrar. Forget it. They don’t know anything else. All the left have ever done throughout history is to attempt the personal destruction of anybody who represents any kind of real threat to their power driven ambitions.
But remember this. Without their media lackeys, this strategy of Labour will not work. If any readers out there want to foil the left’s attacks on Key then the way to do it is not by appealing to the deaf ears of the amoral and obsessive Labour Party, but by continuing to expose the partisan Labour plants in the mainstream media, the so called journalists who are really just propagandists and who dutifully pick up the left’s stories and run with them. I repeat. Without their media plants, the left have nothing.
Most partisan leftist media outlet is TV One newsroom of course. Don’t let this Mugabe/ Chavez style gang of propagandists steal another election for their political masters. Shine some light on these ruthless and partisan left wing activists who advocate so enthusiastically for Labour whilst pretending to objectivity.
The most successful weapon against the left is always going to be truth. We can bring them down by attacking their fortress of lies. That fortress is underpinned by the left’s plants in NZ’s mainstream media. Spread the word. Make sure the NZ public awaken to this deceit. Don’t let the left’s media plants steal another election the way they stole the last one.
July 5th, 2008 at 9:56 am
As muck-raker Clark continues to display her true character for all to see, her venal desperation becomes more and more obvious.
The truth behind this desperation is not only her greed for power, but increasingly clear is her sheer terror at the realisation that when National takes over then her despotic control that she has wielded so corruptly for almost a decade, will suddenly evaporate. Then, one by one, the skeletons will start to tumble from the closets – her dirty secrets, safe in the meantime with compliant toady officials, will eventually be revealed. This is what has tipped her over the edge, and is fuelling her increasingly insane behaviour.
Any comments that her leadership skills are “slipping” are way short of the mark – she has completely lost the plot.
Is this the behaviour befitting the leader of our country?
July 5th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Given that Labour clearly believes that such tactics are acceptable, it would now seem fair and reasonable (and, I would argue, appropriate) for the Opposition to question whether Helen Clark had a vested interest when she voted in favour of the Homosexual Law Reform Bill in the late ’80s.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:14 am
A few months ago Mike Moore was pilloried by the left for comparing dear corrupt Lesbian leader with Muldoon however her actions in the last week prove that Moore was absolutely spot on.
Clark has gone feral, one only needs to see her in the house or watch her interviewed on TV to see the way her face screws up with pure hatred as soon as Key or the Nat’s are mentioned.
I believe she sees Key as the man who is trying to steal her place in history, she desperately feels that she has the right to govern the country for life and cannot comprehend that the public are turning against her, in her evil little mind I am sure that she really believes that people are conspiring against her and that if the public really thought about it they would always vote for her, hers is a classic case of denial.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:28 am
And it’s been revealed in today’s DomPost that Key apparently lost $49,000 on the sale of his Tranz Rail shares in June 2003. I expect Helen Clark to complain that with his inability to make money from his shareholding in Tranz Rail, Key would make a lousy Minister of Finance. Sometimes you just can’t win.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4608005a6160.html
July 5th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Like other bloggers I agree that HC has completely bombed her pre-election strategy.
I have always thought that HC was a cold ruthless,nasty and self opinionated person. She is always for herself, if anyone slips she pounces, even her own party.
She should keep off TV because she looks like a crazed zombie in her latest interviews. Her lapdog helpers like the Greens and New Zealand Last(First) hopefully will hear the anger of the NZ voters.
Heartland New Zealand just loathes Labour but the mood towards Clark is diabolical.Key should respond as he does, always polite and rational. A contrast to Aunty Helen.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Redbaiter, you said it (again).
The Heleban has carried on as arrogantly as it has in this, its last term, precisely because of the way the media wiped their boots and their arse for them over anything and everything Don Brash said or did, over Brash’s daring to speak to or deal with any of the people declared by the Left to be in NZ’s pariah class (Business Round Table, Exclusive Brethren), over the political hit job on National’s e-mails (Putin stuff – in any other half decent nation, it would have been the PM and the government in the gun a la Watergate), over the propaganda of the neo-Stalinist prick Hager, over the Nuclear issue, over the USA, etc, etc. BARF, chunder, puke……..
July 5th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Bruv. I’m curious as to why you refer to Klark as a lesbian. What is it that makes you believe this to be the case? I can’t believe it. For one thing, Klark is married to a man. Now it is inconceivable that the mainstream media in any western country, those people whose prime duty is to shine light on the deceits of government and politicians, would allow the deception of a marriage of political convenience to go unremarked on and unreported upon.
The mainstream media are those who have breathlessly reported upon every lapse of judgment, every inconsistency, every fall from grace of any perceived right wing politician with vigorous pleasure. Bush’s alleged cocaine snorting and alcohol addiction. Brash’s alleged infidelity. (even what he has for dinner and how he washes his underwear). Alleged shonkyism in Key’s past as an exchange dealer. Surely they would not let something so obviously deceitful as a marriage of political convenience by NZ’s Prime Minister go unreported upon.
For the implications of such a deceit would be enormous, and every NZ citizen would need to know of it, and it would be the inescapable duty of any journalist who new of the facts on this matter to report it. The public have a right to know. (its what journalists themselves always say). Surely they would inform us if the PM’s marriage was a charade and a fake and a fraud. Even knowing their overpowering attachment to the left, surely their professional code of ethics would prevent them from aiding and assisting in this deceit? Wouldn’t it?
Speaking for myself, I put great store by how politicians conduct themselves and this effects in no small way where I put my vote. Surely I cannot be alone in this, and surely if the PM has married someone purely for matters of political convenience, I, along with every other NZ voter, would be permitted by NZ’s media to judge her on this act of deceit?
So I ask again, what is it that makes you believe this allegation to be true? …and if it is true, why is this truth being silenced by the media, when every other smear raised by the left against the right (and John Key in particular) is enthusiastically shown the full light of day??
July 5th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Careful there Redbaiter, you’re chucking banderillas at the sacred cows of political correctness and the Kirk & Masden propaganda offensives
July 5th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Colin Espiner also pulled out his calculator, and discovered that if John Key was trying to ‘talk up’ the value of TranzRail shares to line his own pocket (as Labour’s been claiming) — he’s suspiciously inept at it for a Wall Street pirate itching to sell New Zealand out to his foreign corporate buddies:
Source: http://stuff.co.nz/4608005a6160.html
Remember when Clark used to say to gaffe-prone colleagues that when you’re in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging? I don’t mind if she doesn’t take her own advice, but I’ve been talking to Labour supporters (Yes, Redbaiter! I do consort with the ideologically impure!) who are quietly wondering WTF is going on.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Comments about plants in the Main Stream Media reminded me of the comment I heard somewhere, that straight after poncy puffball John Campbell’s infamous Corngate interview with Helen Clark that she silently mouthed to him
“TRAITOR”
July 5th, 2008 at 11:05 am
“(Yes, Redbaiter! I do consort with the ideologically impure!)”
“Consorting” is one way of putting it.
July 5th, 2008 at 11:15 am
Liarbour had a smear test and it all came up BAD for the patient voters. I savour the day Klark is committed.
July 5th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Another way of putting it is “not being a sad little git who needs to get a life of his own”. As for you nuts who insist on sharing your Clark-based girl-on-girl fantasies, why don’t you folks go Google up a website that caters to your kink and give the rest of us a break?
July 5th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Klark has a lot of appeal with woman voters. Many woman voters hold marriage in some regard. It appears to me only reasonable that such voters should know if Klark’s views on marriage are radically different to their own or even the mainstream. Surely her support amongst woman voters would be affected if it became public knowledge that her marriage was a sham? Whatever, the media have no god given or any kind of right to be making these decisions for the public.
The media and the parliamentary press gallery in particular who have told us so much about the personal lives of other politicians, should likewise objectively report the facts on Klark and leave voters to their own opinions and decisions. If they are deliberately hiding Klark’s alleged lesbianism (whilst she’s in a marriage with a man) from the public then they are colluding in the deceit themselves. Collaborating with Labour in hiding what some may see as a circumstance unpalatable to many voters. This cast further aspersions upon their already highly suspect political objectivity, especially when they are so enthusiastic about reporting on the personal issues of other/ opposition politicians.
July 5th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
She is fighting like her survival is at stake. This is good because when they go down I hope their political destruction is permanent. She is campaigning like it might be.
July 5th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
anyone else notice how the chiwawa attack trolls pretty much vanish at the weekends? perhaps they should negotiate flexible working hours.
July 5th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Many woman I know also have no respect for prurient scumbags and cowards who pontificate about ‘values’ and ‘integrity’ while hiding behind fake names. How much scrutiny would you stand up to, Master Baiter?
July 5th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Labour have made the rather serious mistake of building the parties survival in Government too much around Clark. And with a whole host of current senior ministers looking tired and well and truly past their use-by dates and no real talent coming through from the backbenches Labour could be a very long time before they look fit to take over the Treasury benches again.
Further to the valid points that Armstrong makes, I cannot for the life of me figure out why Labour keep on banging on about the 1990’s under National. FFS the average Kiwi is more concerned with the cost of petrol and how he going to be able to afford to pay his bills etc and isn’t the slightest bit interesting in political events of 10 – 20 years ago.
July 5th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
The last thing that Key and National should do is to respond in kind. I mean why waste the bullets when Labour is bleeding from self inflicted wounds turning septic with the 111 phone off the hook and nobody listening (Sonic excepted).
July 5th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
DPF wrote:
^ heh, not quite dateless; Labour has Winston.
And anyone who doubts this needs to watch Question Time from last Wednesday when Helen & Winston did a tag-team effort to try and smear John Key. It was like watching Lady & the Tramp but without the spaghetti & meatballs.
July 5th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
To be frank here, I don’t give a shit about who she shags but I do care that she says John Key is dishonest with no evidence.
She’s the one with a prima face case for fraud against her.
July 5th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
“Many woman I know also have no respect for prurient scumbags and cowards who pontificate about ‘values’ and ‘integrity’ while hiding behind fake names. How much scrutiny would you stand up to, Master Baiter?”
Oh well, here we go again. I advanced an argument that you don’t “approve” of (the media’s possible selective targetting of politicians they don’t agree with whilst giving the politicians they favour a free ride), so out comes the threats.
So typical. ..and you keep saying you’re not a leftist. You’re as poisoned by hate and political correctness and just an intolerant as anyone in the Labour Party. A typical pseudo-liberal. I don’t give a damn what you call yourself Cwaigy. This is about ideas not who you are. You want to make your name a big deal, write to the friggen newspapers. You want to discuss things on blogs, I suggest you just say your piece on the issue at hand and save your self-important windbag posturing for your radio show.
July 5th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Heard JK on the farming show on ZB this morning. Both himself and National are surprised that Dear Leader has lead the attack. Dear Leader is not following her usual routine of sending in the attack dogs ( Mullard, Cullen etc ) first to soften up the victim. JK said he was happy to take hits form the Dear Leader and hoped to run a clean campaign.
The socailists are showing their ture colours, they have nothing to offer NZ except lies and bribes. What pisses me off the most is that it’s taken 9 fucking years for the population to wake from their slumber. Dear Leader and her cabal of witches and heavy duty gravy suckers ( Greens, Winnie First ) have screwed this country over good and proper.
July 5th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Top of the class, First Time Caller. Baiter, go home and wait for your special needs tutor to call. I don’t have to agree with someone to respect them, but people who pontificate about integrity while hiding behind fake names have about the same credibility as Prime Ministers who do the same while telling porkie pies, then getting a sock puppet like Cullen to throw in some new ones when they get caught out. That’s “none at all”, FYI.
July 5th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
I can’t understand why Labour keeps up these attacks on JK. All the evidence to-date is that the voting public and turned off by this. Perhaps this is just a placeholder tactic until they start unleashing highly targeted bribes to turn their worm?
I note that a miracle, better-than-expected surplus has been announced. What a surprise. So coming into an election the people are cash poor but decision rich, and the government is cash rich but needs friends. Each has what the other wants. It will be interesting to see how easily NZers fall for the bribes.
July 5th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
“Top of the class, First Time Caller. Baiter, go home and wait for your special needs tutor to call.”
Cwaigy, you need to take some reading classes. Nobody said anything about who Klark was shagging. In fact I took care with the words I used to try and get away from that issue. But as usual, you and your dumbfuck ingrained knee jerk politically correct conditioning prevented you from recognizing that simple fact. Like all free speech attacking socialists, you’re just so desperate to leap into “deeply offended by what was said” mode. Get a life dimbulb, preferably outside the sad tiny easily upset victim mentality world you choose to dwell in. Moan all you like you priggish bag of piss and wind. In my book, freedom of political expression takes precedence over Stalinist social conditioning.
July 5th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
getstaffed wrote:
There’s that old fable about the scorpion who hitched a ride on a fox to get across a river. The scorpion stung the fox mid way through the crossing. Before they both drowned the fox asked the scorpion why? The scorpion replied ‘it’s in my nature’.
I reckon it’s all to do with rallying the Labour troops – to improve their moral. The smear after all was one of the first attacks on JK Helen’s personally fronted (normally Trevor does it so he can get the blame if it goes wrong).
I am deeply suspicious how Helen is holding Labour together in the face of such terrible polls. John Howard, George Bush, Tony Blair, and now Gordon Brown all faced disunity in their party ranks when the polls turned sour. I’m suspicious that Helen and Heather’s neutron bomb is more of National’s stolen emails they plan to release via Hager. Perhaps she’s soothing frayed nerves in the Labour party with the promise of the neutron bomb.
July 5th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
“..Dear Leader and her cabal of witches and heavy duty gravy suckers ( Greens, Winnie First ) have screwed this country over good and proper..”
no bloody-hands-bob..
..it is polluting/environmentally raping bastards like you that ‘..have screwed this country over good and proper..”
the evidence/pollutd rivers/degraded land/erosion/’run-off’ are all around the rest of us..
..and easy to sea..
so..bloody-hands-bob..not only are you barbaric/cruel towards animals..
..you are the same with the land..
you..are the fucken problem..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
July 5th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
“In my book, freedom of political expression takes precedence over Stalinist social conditioning.”
Dead right redbaiter, the kiwi spirit is far better than pc socialism!
Edit ; “you..are the fucken problem..”
Coming from you makes me dog laugh. Have another bong silly philly.
July 5th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
“..I’m suspicious that Helen and Heather’s neutron bomb is more of National’s stolen emails they plan to release via Hager..”
no getstaffed…
..that’s not ‘da bomb’..
..keep guessing..!
and..leaked..is not ’stolen’..
gee..!..maybe labour have a deep-cover/mole in national..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
July 5th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
You drop the so called “da bomb” phil and I can guarantee you, Miss Klark will lose more in the eventual fallout.
July 5th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Stupid and predictable.
Except Master Baiter on this thread, time-stamped at 10.42 & 12.37. And I’ve not noticed you fail to address the simple fact that while you love to lecture others on integrity and principles, you do so while spewing abuse from behind a pseudonym. What a dumb-fuck liar you are.
July 5th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
how about philu gets a job….
July 5th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
“Except Master Baiter on this thread, time-stamped at 10.42 & 12.37. ”
A typical leftist lie and smear. Yawn. Fuck off Cwaigy. You’re just a small minded past your use by date narcissitic bore who doesn’t get it. Its about the media doing their job and in a non partisan manner, not you and your tiresome self focused hangups about your sexuality. Utterly boring.
July 5th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
yet another impressive comment from nx..
172..is it..?
it seems like there have been so many/much more..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
July 5th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
How bad is the Herald today. The online “your views” comments about the truckies was almost solely in support yet all the letters published in the editorial section seem to have been written by the local Labour Party branches.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
Craig, isn’t there as saying about wrestling with a pig… Sometimes I can’t decide which is worse on Kiwiblog, the witterings of the left led by Sonic and Roger backed up by the incoherent phil, or the foaming frenzy that is the other extreme. It used to be more amusing and interesting.
I think the key point is why is Helen running this nasty campaign herself ? I mean the nature and direction of the campaign is reasonably clear, they intend to undermine national by attacking Key, hoping to find a weak point. It is nasty, personal, and vindictive, small minded to an unusual degree. Usually this is Mallard’s job, has he lost his edge or considered too vulnerable to provocation ? Certainly I think it has been one of Clark’s strengths to appear above this sort of thing, not that she is, but to appear above. Probably this is simple arrogance, there comes a time when governments get tired and will probably lose, at least that is the FPP type of way, under MMP it is possible to work the coalitions to stay longer. this can be hard to accept foir some, and in this case the true nature of Labour is becoming revealed, and it is rather more unpleasant than most suspected.
I think too that there will be a difficult fall out for Labour if/when national takes over, I think a lot of relatively small but still serious illegalities will emerge, I would think there will be a mass pyre of paperwork in November when as much evidence as possible gets shredded or burnt. However i am not yet ready to believe the more extreme fantasies of some form of coup to stay in power, I am quite prepared for a Muldoon like refusal to accept defeat easily, and I believe that if National & ACT do not get a clear majority on the night that Clark will refuse to go and may even attempt to use the EFA to stymie a change in government, hanging onto power as long as possible. Not a pleasant thought.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
Hulun is a control freak and does not have the depth of trusted pr advisors she once had and is now unable to give up the reigns especially to the permies/staffers/idiots on the 9th floor.
She doesnt have access to the pm’s office budget to run electioneering, things arent going to plan and is she probably losing the plot quite literally.
Bunker mentality has set in, attack attack attack.
Wait for the increasingly eratic behaviour over the next few weeks.
Goff must be about to roll her.
Wonder who labour will stand in mt albert?
July 5th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Ed Snack, you do have a point — but someone really needs to keep calling bullshit on Redbaiter. If nothing else, it’s weird watching Master Baiter and his echo chamber re-write reality moment by moment in a manner that would make even Clark blush. I’m also sick of this self-appointed Commissar trying to impose his own political correctness, and then playing the victim when he doesn’t get his way.
July 5th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
Philu, lighten up man. I know you think I’m bloody hands bob but I would like to invite you to our farm and prove that we are not the scum that you believe. I promise to treat you with the utmost of respect and will not let any wild animals kill you. I know you live in Dorkland and prehaps it is hard for you to travel but farmers have cars and I could visit, shout you a beer and say hello. We go from there . I only offer this invite as I believe you would benifit from a different view of life. I live about 4 hours from Dorkland but the family would like to go for a drive. I know that if you could see what a lot of farmers do and how we live you may see things in a different light.
July 6th, 2008 at 12:25 am
RedBaiter – even if she were keeping her preferences quiet so as not to scare the sheep, I’d really rather not know thanks very much.
Anyway why would it be wrong to be a lesbian but married to a man? He must have cottend on by now you’d think? Yet he still hangs in there. So what? What’s it to you? Why would she have to tell you about her secret feelings? You’re like a priest who enjoys the confessional a bit too much.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:33 am
bob..i am surprised by your invitation..and appreciate it in the spirit it is obviously offered..
..if you were to be in ak i wd be happy to meet to discuss/debate our differing points of view/beliefs..
(i don’t carry weapons..contact details on whoar..)
..but i will decline your offer to visit your farm..
..i find such experiences un-nerving/distressing..
..you may well run a ‘clean’ farm..compared to others..
..and you/your family may even feel a form of ‘affection’ for ‘your’ animals..
..but the reality is that you have terms such as ‘the works’ in your workplace vocabulary..
..and to me as a vegan/animal rights sorta person..
..that can never be ‘right’..
and tho’ you may feel i know nothing of your life..
..as a child i spent time on farms..(i have ‘milked’..)
..i have worked..(albeit briefly..!) in a chicken-processing plant/factory..
..and i sometimes stay on a friends’ place/land ‘up north’..
..and that is next door to a ‘working’ farm..
..so i hear the bellows of stress/pain etc..
and as a final thought..
i reported/linked to a story the other day..
..showing that your average steak uses 2,000 ltres of water..
on it’s journey to the diners short-term gratification..
as i say..i’d be happy to meet/discuss..
..but be warned..i’ll be trying to persuade you to turn your hand/skills/land to growing/producing ‘real’ food..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
July 6th, 2008 at 7:53 am
It’s rampant “fear and smear”.
The only thing to fear is fear itself.
In Labour’s case it’s electoral defeat. It has every reason to cower in fear, and no ability to avoid its fate.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:02 am
LOL Phil. You have every right to your views, but NZ has and always (probably) will run on the sweat of a farmers brow. We can afford to eat because they get up in the morning. Our infrastructure and modern standard of living, low infant mortality, longevity etc. is all on the back of those farmers. If the farmers are doing well, NZ does well.
Tell me how many litres of water your own rump requires on its journey from the couch to the refrigerator and back again?
Remind me, where did Civilisation begin? Wasnt it Mesopotamia, Egypt and China? What did they have in common – farming. Farming enables excess food – allowing organised society to develop. Civilisation is based on raw energy – Food and latterly the big leap from Medieval to Modern society is on the back of Food + Coal, Oil, Nuclear, Hydro and soon Wind.
But it’s all fundamentally still foundered on Food and Farming.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:56 am
of course we are reliant on farmers..
i just want them to farm/make ‘real’ food..
..not just to use all those resources/skills to grow sentient beings for slaughter/short-term oral gratification..
(and at what environmental cost..?..)
it’s as simple as that..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
July 6th, 2008 at 9:08 am
:..as a child i spent time on farms..(i have ‘milked’..)”
yep, you sure have Phil, – and still do – you are just ‘milking’ the system
July 6th, 2008 at 9:21 am
does anyone out there think starr is a reincarnation of oscar wilde..?
no..?
how about elmer fudd..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
July 6th, 2008 at 9:32 am
and speaking about ‘milking the system’..
how about all those greedy/polluting farmers/businesses/w.h.y..?
with their hands out for pollution-welfare..
and they expect this pollution-welfare untill 2028..!
whoar..!
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
July 6th, 2008 at 9:35 am
“and they expect this pollution-welfare untill 2028..!”
As opposed to you just expecting welfare for the rest of your life?
(btw -did you enjoy the rugby last night Phil?)
July 6th, 2008 at 9:39 am
I was after a little help from this blog. I was only a youngster during the Lange years, but I recall Helen Clark launching an election smear campaign as either a minister in the Lange government or as an underling in his opposition. Can anyone else recall this. I suspect history repeating itself, through a leopard that will never change its spots.
If anyone else can recall this please post it hear.
Cheers
July 6th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Whoops, I meant here not hear
July 6th, 2008 at 9:42 am
whew..!..sometimes deja vu is so..fast..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
July 6th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Fair enough Philu, of course I believe your view of life is somewhere in the twilight zone but it would be a pretty boring world if we all thought the same way. If I ever get to Dorkland I would still like to say hello and shout you a beer or a rough red, hope you enjoy an odd drop. Will get pretty busy around here as spring is just over the horizon and the cows are starting to spring up. We havn’t had a holiday this year and would like to take the kids to the city for a couple of days. They would probably like Dorkland, country kids eyes usually pop out of their heads when they get to go to the big smoke.
mavxp, I agree with everything you said. I think most people now live in a world where their food comes in clad wrap or in plastic or carboard. Many living in our large urban areas have no idea about where and how their food comes to them or where even they came from. “Facts” that Philu puts up should be taken with a very large pinch of salt i.e your average steak takes 2000 litres of water. So what!!!! I wonder how much water Phliu has used in his life. It’s mindless crap like this “fact” that get people like the Melons all hot and bothered. It’s easy to point the stick at farmers from those sitting in their town houses in the city but in reality they have no idea about which they talk.
July 6th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
“..“Facts” that Philu puts up should be taken with a very large pinch of salt i.e your average steak takes 2000 litres of water. So what!!!!..”
(well..i guss that’s one reaction to that 2,000 litres per steak equation..
..most reactions i’ve seen have been along the lines of ‘fuck..!..i didn’t realise that..!..)
“.. I wonder how much water Phliu has used in his life..”
and what the fuck has that got to do with the subject under discussion..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
July 7th, 2008 at 4:02 am
philu – it’s not as if the water is taken out of circulation now is it. It just passes through and gets evaporated up into heaven and then back down again and over again. If it were 1 billion litres you wouldn’t notice the difference – well other than that it might taste a bit like fish.
July 7th, 2008 at 4:08 am
hehe – “fuck..!..i didn’t realise that..!..”
Don’t tell me, your friends are hippies?
July 7th, 2008 at 6:02 am
How many hippies does it take to render 1 litre of biofuel?
July 7th, 2008 at 9:00 am
“..gets evaporated up into heaven and then back down again..”
gee..!..my bad..!..i never realised the celestial stop-over that water does..
who knew..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)