Winston’s fuller explanation
July 30th, 2008 at 4:05 pm by David FarrarWinston has just spoken in the general debate. If the allegations were not so serious, it would be comical. He did not address a single issue of substance, but of course just attacked everyone. He basically said:
- Informed Speaker in May 2005 of allegations now appearing in Dominion Post (I think this is re the scampi issue back then)
- Said TVNZ has two investigators trying to dig up dirt on him.
- Talked of how Bill Ralston at TVNZ hired Phil Kitchin, as is this is somehow sinister
- Alleged that Phil Kitchin has misled Bob Jones in order to get a story
- Said that he sacked Rex W in 1996 and Rex not credible as he chats to teenage girls online
- Said that he was told at his mother’s funeral that there is a “pot of money” on offer for anyone who can dig up dirt on him
- Referred to the media as brainless meerkats
- Said that when he refuses to answer a stupid question, that is not a denial!
Remember how he said last week he would address the conflicts between what Bob Jones (and Professor Wright) said and what he has said. He hasn’t even attempted to do this.If this was meant to be a fuller explanation, I would hate to see a less full explanation.
In related news, Rodney Hide has laid a complaint with the Serious Fraud Office. It will be interesting to see if they decide to investigate. Considering they invesigated a similiar allegation against National in 2002, I can’t see how they can credibly not invesigate. That is not to say they will necessairly find illegal behaviour. Unless one actually knows what the Spencer Trust spends its money on, you can’t conclude on issues of legality.
July 30th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Chatting to teenage girls online damages your credibility? Roger Nome will be gutted…
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
i heard shane jones on holmes this morning..
when historians look back at the downfall of this government and want to know how it happened.. look no further than this guy.
the most arrogant person i have ever heard in my life.
at one point he teased the national mp because she said “million” instead of “hundred”.. she corrected herself in about 2 seconds.. but that didnt stop this guy acting like a 9 year old..
i have never heard such arrogance or contempt for the people he is supposed to serve. he sounded like an asshole high school teacher talking to a 12 yr old..
then he let this gem slip in regards to winston..
“there is a sliver of people out there that believe these charges against winston are a conspiracy, and that sliver may be larger than 5%”.
my god!!! there it is.. summed up on national radio by an arrogant asshole…
“we think there are enough nutjobs out there that will still vote for this guy and we want power at all costs”.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Dime
While you may well be right about Jones being the most arrogant there are a couple of others who run the prick a close second, Russel Norman and David (Bill Rowling) Parker are right up there.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
And in a press release just sent to Aardvark, Peters has said “Just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get me”
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
I know its a bit off topic but while watching the proceedings of the house today I was struck by just how rough the Labour Shelia’s look, most of them seem to have been dragged thorough a bush back wards and hammered with the ugly stick.
[DPF: Demerits for next comment like that]
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
bruv – lol yeah.. but at least they dont all look the same!
no labour chicks are good looking blondes!
as for jones – i cant believe he wasnt a teacher! its worth a listen back.. good way to get pumped up before a workout!
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
So the barrel does have a bottom.
Goodness, I communicate with thousands of people online… I’ll ask for ID in future. Of course it’s always difficult to tell whether the “teenage girl” who wants to chat to you isn’t in fact a 280lb gay longhaul truckie from Detroit. Or an employee of the Russian mafia
Credibility suddenly matters to the man who hired Michael Laws and Mary Anne Thompson?
Laws endeavoured to attack my credibility on the same basis in 2006, and ended up rapidly backpedalling (in lycra shorts, no doubt) when the young woman who made an unfortunate allegation confirmed unequivocally to the media that she had lied as a result of some psychological and family difficulties.
That Laws stooped to doing so surprised me not in the least. That Winston has followed suit merely confirmed for me what he has become since the time I knew and admired him, and was proud to call him a friend.
Oh, and for the record, screaming “if you don’t like it get f***ked then!!” like a teenager told to take off her makeup doesn’t amount to “sacking” someone, as Parliamentary Services were forced to admit, and pay for.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
I’m so glad I didn’t waste my time watching it all. It would be a supreme pleasure to see Peters scrape up 5.1% of the party vote and then be convicted of fraud. Can the SFO subpoena the trustees and records of the Spencer Trust?
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
I also heard Shane Jones and do so every week just to LOL at the stuck up little hori boy from the bush up north whose an anal retentive of the highest order.
back on the SFO they wont do anything about Peters. Dearly Beloved Heavenly Leader will have made it quite clear that she does not want the SFO sniffing around .Mind you given their incompetence she neednt worry as even if the evidence was presented to them on a silver platter they dont have the intelligence to figure it out
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
*cough* I know you’re too much of a gentleman to go there, Rex, but since Winston is getting on the moral high horse. What about the “credibility” of Ron Mark — who was convicted of doing a bit more than ‘chatting’ to a fifteen year old girl when he was 17? (Statutory rape is a damn ugly term, but not one I think is inaccurate.) A little factoid Peters decided voters didn’t need to know when Mark stood for Parliament, need I add.
But I keep forgetting: Do what Winston says, don’t say what Winston does.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Own up then – who are the teenage girls amongst us?
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Peter’s has become the laughing stock of the nation. How much more can Clark take, I wonder??
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
And Peter’s has never [deleted by DPF - demerits next time for defamatory remarks]
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
The serious fraud office will certainly not investigate. At least, if the last 8 or 9 years is anything to go by.
Unless, the SFO employees are pissed of with labour for trying to merge them into the police – that may cause them to bite back at Helen via the winston path.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
is that a bad time to add that Dime does more than just talk to teenage girls? hahaha 19′s legal right?
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
You got me Llew, I’m actually a 19 year old girl.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Paul Marsden:
Actually, no. When I demanded Parliamentary Services get me a computer that had more than about 16Mb of RAM etc my old one ended up on Winston’s desk. And there it sat till a visitor one day challenged that he didn’t know how to turn it on, let along operate it.
Instead of happily admitting to being a Luddite, as many of that generation are, Winston, being Winston, immediately bristled and claimed he could. The visitor wouldn’t be put off, however, and demanded a demonstration of this prowess.
Winston punched the only button that looked like it did anything, which happened to be the power switch on then monitor.
He then sat there are glared at the machine, his look growing darker by the minute as the recalcitrant piece of equipment refused to bend to his will. When it looked as though the throbbing vein on his forehead was about to burst, the visitor – no doubt worried for his health – coughed politely and said “It must be broken”.
The rest of us were eternally grateful for this magnanimous gesture, as we’d been holding our breath trying not to laugh.
For Winston, “porn on the computer” means keeping a stack of “Nature Lovers’ Digest” on top of the box
Not that this is especially relevant, but it does provide an insight into Winston’s modus operandi. Faced with an inadequacy or error, rather than simply admit fault and move on, he begins to act like Daffy Duck, complete with steam coming out of his ears.
Craig: Thanks for recognising that while I might have dived willingly into the barrel, I prefer to tread water and not sink to the bottom
And in any case, the person best able to make Ron Mark look entirely unsuited to a position as a Member of Parliament is Ron Mark.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Fuck thats funny.
They should film that and play it every Christmas.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
wreck1080 the staff left at the SFO are those hoping like hell to get taken on by the Police so fat chance they will do any real investigation.
Rodders complaint will by now be sitting at the bottom of the file basket were it will stay until the whole thing blows over and the MSM concerntration span of about 24 hours runs out.
Mind you we are providing sport for my contacts off shore who now really do see NZ as a third world banana republic as regards governance.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Rex I’m not sure if you commented on this yet, but Winnie has suggested that you are mistaken (he makes out that you are making things up/lying) in your allegations since you were no longer working for him when these things were suppposed to be going on. Is there any chance you could clarify what you know and the dates? Cheers
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
gd thats unfair. Rondneys complaint is on display in the display department… at the back of a disused basement toilet (no stairs) with a sign on the door saying “beware of the leopard”.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
I have a different view than most.
Yes I certainly agree that Winston Peters is a hypocrite. He has spoken out against large corporate and wealthy donors over a number of years. The Herald has quoted this morning sections of his speeches on the Electoral Finance Act.
However the fact remains that where is the illegality? Hypocrisy YES, but illegality?
I don’t believe that Winston Peters has been proven to have done anything illegal and that is why he is able to give that assurance to the Prime Minister and why she is able to accept it.
We know that Bob Jones was asked to give money to NZ First. We also know that a few days later Roger McClay has called by asking for a cheque for the Spencer Trust. Did Winston solicit Bob Jones for a donation to the Spencer Trust? NO.
The Spencer Trust has received $25,000 from Bob Jones. It is quite possible that the Spencer Trust donated this sum in full to NZ First through a series of anonymous donations. This is quite easily done in 2005 with three or more bank cheques for $10,000 or less. (It is also quite easily done in 2008 with 25 or more bank cheques of no more than $1,000 or a donation via the Electoral Commission).
If the Spencer Trust has passed this money on to NZ First anonymously there is absolutely no reason for NZ First to disclose it, if the bank cheques were for $10,000 or less. If however there was a single bank cheque for $25,000 that would have to be disclosed as an anonymous donation, but given there was no disclosure that probably was not the case. The NZ First Party Secretary could quite easily be in the dark as to where these anonymous donations came from.
Similarly if the cheques were written using the Spencer Trust cheque book, the Party Secretary would be required to accumulate them and disclose the total sum however by using bank cheques there is no trace to the Spencer Trust.
Bob Jones is seeking an assurance that his money went to NZ First and if the Spencer Trust has donated it in the way I have suggested he can be satisfied that his money has gone to New Zealand First.
The only way to prove my hypothesis is to have access to the workings of the Spencer Trust and but the Trustees have no more obligation to open up their books than the Trustees of the Waitemata Trust.
Do I think Winston Peters is a hypocrite? YES. Do I think Winston Peters voted for the Electoral Finance Act which unreasonably restricts the rights of ordinary citizens to participate in the electoral process when he knew full well that the EFA would not restrict the families such as the Velas giving multiple $10,000 donations through separate but related entities? YES.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Yip i just watched him in the house. He kept mentioning the mad hatter – how weird – when is the queen going to chop off his head -Thats what I want to know.
A deluge of rain outside the house and a deluge of concentrated bovine faecal matter inside the House.
I hope the SFO does give it a whirl.
The reasons why his backers ( and there were a number ) are pissed off is because he went with Labour so long ago.. so sympathy for Winston among the rich famous and down right dangerous, is in short supply.
He is right about one thing – the journalists have had enough – they are sharing info and it will be them who brings him to his knees – I reckon its only a matter of time before Meurant spills.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
I have little interest in the hypocrisy John, for me the issue is that it is evident that he has consistantly been dishonest and misled parliament, the media and the people he answers to. This IS a legal issue as well as a moral one relevant to voters.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Hello Hagues. I was involved with NZF from early 1993 until late 1996 and worked at the Parliamentary Office from late 1994 under a variable title that expanded to encompass the myriad things I was expected to do. My business card said “Media and Policy Advisor to the Leader”.
The Winebox hearings were going on at this time so fundraising for Winston’s legal fees was in full swing. Let me make it quite clear (I’ve said this to the media but it hasn’t been reported): I saw nothing illegal nor even questionably ethical, which is why I haven’t raised the matter till now.
People wanted to contribute to Winston’s legal fees and that a trust was used as a vehicle for them to do so was quite proper. It was certainly the practice during the time I was there.
The issue that arises now (in relation to what I know) is twofold.
Winston claimed in February this year that he never solicited donations from anyone. He most certainly did even back in the 90s. Again, no reason why he shouldn’t, but I also can’t see why he should deny it.
The second is slightly more complex – that if donors were not told whether their donations were to be used for legal fees or for the party or, as Sir Bob Jones is claiming, were misled or confused as to the eventual disbursement of their donation, then that does raise some serious issues. Winston has tried to imply he knew very little, if anything, of these fundraising efforts and the way the money was handled when in fact he did and does.
Let me put it this way. On non-sitting days I’d sometimes come into Parliament wearing a jumper. Winston told me off, saying that anyone in NZF was an extension of him and the party and thus it was to be a suit at all times. You think a man who controls how his staff dress when no one is around but other staff doesn’t have hands-on control over the funding of his party and his legal battles?
Leaving aside questions of whether he’s complied with disclosure laws – and I’ll leave it to others far more knowledgeable than myself to comment on that – I don’t think he’s done anything illegal. Whether he’s treated generous supporters like Bob Jones with the integrity and respect they deserve is something for them to make a call on. Personally I don’t think he has.
And why he’s claiming ignorance of things which – if I were there now – I’d have advised him to admit and defend as perfectly legitimate, I don’t know.
Though of course I wouldn’t be advising that right now because he started off from a posture of denial, and now there’s no going back. I believe if he’d been open with the media and the public about the Jones and Spencer Trust issues, those would now be all but forgotten. The Glenn and Vela donations – about which I know very little more than any of you – appear to contain more serious issues, however.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Do you know what the really sad thing about all this is?
It’s that the vast majority of the great unwashed (whose votes are as valid as ours) aren’t really very interested in this saga.
The only reason it’s in our papers and on TV every day is because the media have taken umrage at Winston’s comments and decided that it’s newsworthy.
Personally, I think it’s very important that his hypocrisy is highlighted but then again, who is really surprised by a headline that reads “Politician Guilty of Hypocrisy”?
Nobody.
One only has to look at the annual survey that shows which are the most and least respected professions to realise that the public already consider politicians to be little better than pond-scum, so why would Winston’s transgressions be anything unexpected.
And even sadder, by the time November rolls around, all of this will be forgotten (despite the best efforts of some parties to resurect it) and people will vote either according to their (or their partner’s) basic ideology, or on the basis of who’s offering the biggest bag of lollies.
The only problem with democracy is that most of the people who make the decisions are not only stupid but also obscenely uninterested in their role.
Admit it, you know I’m right.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
I should have made it clear that my comments relate to the Vela donations ( absolutely legal in 2003 and legal in 2008, and no disclosure required) and the Jones donation.
They do not relate to the Glenn donation. I think it is hard to argue there is not a personal benefit to Peters with this. It is also hard to believe that Peters did not know prior to a fortnight ago and that Glenn did not discuss it with him.
If more information ermeges ( such as donations intended for NZF being redirected elsewhere to his personal benefit) that changes things, but there no evidence of this at the present time.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
“Said that he was told at his mother’s funeral that there is a “pot of money” on offer for anyone who can dig up dirt on him”
No disrespect to Winston’s mother (RIP). But if I died, and my children kept using my death as some sort of shield / excuse for his/her own corrupted behavior, I’ll be fuming from the grave.
Didn’t Winston also at some point said that he was told about the Owen Glenn donations on the day of his mother’s funeral? Well, I guess his lawyers picked that day so the bad news about the donations didn’t sound so bad comparing to the lost of a family member.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
John. If Peter’s has nothing to hide, then why doesn’t he just explain where, and how the money has been divided up and get the heat off himself? Is the man a lunatic or, what?
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
i think this issue is on the radar of most people – If you spend some time in the hinterland ( as I did last week ) its the first thing they are talking about after they have played a game of golf or are out for dinner. They are very uneasy and for many of Winstons older supporters ( including some of my rellies) , sigh, its enough for them to say they wont vote for him again. And these are the self same people who worshipped him.
Shame really, when good people trust someone who is so full of shit.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Thanks Rex
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Two things I want answered is what sort of influence did Winston have on where the racing stakes money was to be applied. Which races had stakes beefed up? Why didnt it go to grass roots racing ? Who benefited from it?
There is still more to the Tommy Gear story – What the hell is his history – ?
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Paul Marsden: Lest DPF ping me for defamation were I to give you a blunt “yes”, I’ll refer you to my 5.03pm comment.
Winston’s Law goes like this: When faced with a challenge, especially if you’re actually in the wrong, fume –> see yourself as the victim of a conspiracy –> attack the questioner –> deny the basis of the challenge even if it’s no more than a simple error of judgement on your part –> fume some more and begin to rail at anyone in range –> attack the sources to whom your questioner, confused by your reaction, has turned for confirmation of the facts –> attempt to link this incident to every other unrelated challenge you’ve ever faced –> see the gob-smacked amazement at your irrational response as further evidence of the grand conspiracy against you –> fume even more… ad infinitum.
Whether that constitutes lunacy, I couldn’t possibly comment.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
and the other rumour doing the rounds . That winston is playing hardball over confidence and supply ..
clark will be crapping herself…
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
I’m much better informed now. Thanks Rex. (Oh dear, he does have a wee problem, dosen’t he?)
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
bustedblonde – yes, what has happened to the Tommy Gun/Gear story?
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
John Boscawen, I totally agree. I don’t think the Velas or Jones donations were illegal, although Winston may have a bit of explaining to do to Jones and probably shouldn’t count on any more blank cheques. The Glenn donation stinks to high heaven though, especially given Winnie’s position as MInister of Foreign Affairs and Glenn’s clear ambition for a diplomatic post.
Overall … there’s little or no chance at all that Winnie’s going to get taken to task for this stuff before the election. He’ll bluster and threaten, and Clark will quietly make sure that no competent authority takes too close a look.
But I think these scandals are the nails in Winston’s political coffin. Sure, in the past he’s found 5% of the population deluded enough to vote for him. But in 2005 it was only just 5%. Barely 5%. But this time round these scandals, the baubles of office etc etc … the gloss is going off our dapper Winnie the Pooh. These latest revelations about Glenn, Velas & Jones will be turning people off, not bringing in new supporters. And Winston really has to win more voters than he had in 2005, not lose them.
He’s gone in November. Good riddance.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
bustedblonde – I’ve posted about the confidence issue on Keeping Stock. The third reading of the Appropriations Bill was previously expected tomorrow – the last confidence motion for the 48th Parliament. Clark needs the seven votes that NZ First holds to avoid the possibility of an embarrassing defeat. Now it won’t go to the vote until Tuesday at the earliest. Will anyone blink before then?
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Llew>Own up then – who are the teenage girls amongst us?
Outside I am a bloke in his 40s. Inside I am a teenage girl. And a lesbian.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
virtualmark – Peters has probably already lost the best part of 10% of his 2005 support base due to “natural attrition”!! Given that the numbers eligible to vote will also have increased since 2005, it will become harder for him to get across the 5% threshhold with every funeral.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Rex: you are describing Winston as presenting many of the traits of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (as per DSM IV TR guidelines).
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
And where oh where, did the $158,000 come from, and to whom and what (cough) charaties, did it all go???
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
“Unless one actually knows what the Spencer Trust spends its money on, you can’t conclude on issues of legality.” – Anyone who has had dealings with the SFO knows they are a waste of space when a serious investigation is required. I don’t expect alot.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
davidP: Now you’re sounding as confused as Winnie.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
I just went for a walk in the sunshine to remind myself there’s life outside the cesspit that Parliament has become.
And in one of those “Twilight Zone” moments, a waitress with a felt tip marker was inscribing the following on one of those sandwich boards which businesses sometimes use to attract attention with a “saying of the day”. As I watched she wrote:
And therein wrote not only a far more succinct explanation of Winston’s behaviour than I’ve been able to manage, but indeed the epitaph of his entire career.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Brilliant Rex! If only it were his epitaph!!
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Mr Farrar,I have never seen you for a LONG TIME putting the threat of demerites on posts , is the pressure being put on you, have you being threatened by being cut out of the action , dosnt clark and winnie love you,, WHOW its a worry , has winnie got to you, with his permed hairstyle , only a query , no demerites please:)) ???????? most would have picked this up
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
Rex
I admire the way you have handled the disgusting smear from that low life Peters (if he had said that about me I would fly down to Wellington just to head but the wanker) your presence here adds to the value of this excellent blog and I for one always read what you have to say.
I will admit that I do not always agree with you however everything you do contribute is extremely interesting and always argued in the most convincing fashion.
Chin up mate.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Yip inventory – I just caught the tail end of it but I think Duncan garner mentioned on TV3 news.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
John Boscawen (at 5:23pm) – you’ve spent too long thinking about this, obviously. Perhaps you should sen his lawyers a bill? Sounds bang-on.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
big bruv: Thanks. And thanks too to Alice and others who had nice things to say yesterday, and those who’ve commented today. I’ll stand (and maybe one day fall) by my words and actions.
Last time Winston and I crossed swords it was live on TV3. He claimed I was lying then too, and lost comprehensively. He’d do well to remember that.
It was when I said he’d put Michael Laws in charge of the NZF office, the campaign and everything else.
“How can you make such an outrageous claim?” he asked, puffing himself up and preparing to deploy his dismissive smirk.
“Perhaps because of this letter, signed by you, saying ‘Michael is in charge of the office, the campaign and everything else’,” I riposted, waving it around. Cue fuming and ranting as described above.
I think it was about then someone in the Control Room called for the defibrillator
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Peters is behaving as though he has a guilty mind. I can’t see any advantage in his conduct if he hasn’t. However me may get away without explaining himself: The cheque made out to the Spencer Trust, indirectly from Jones, in itself, is no proof that Jones intended than do anything except make a payment to the Spencer Trust, for whatever the purposes of the trust were. Nor is there any obvious time stated for an expected donation to NZ First. The Jones monies would, it is also expected, have been paid in the trust bank account becoming mingled with other monies there. It would seem that any payments from the Spencer Trust to NZ First could, unless otherwise specifically stated to be otherwise, be said to be the application of the Jones money as Jones intended. I wouldn’t like to prosecute on the basis of present knowledge. Even the witness to the request doesn’t help: we no the request was satisfied. Perhaps Jones should have asked what the Spencer Trust was. If he an answer that may sink Peters. Jones however can ask for an accounting of how his cheque was applied. Peters suggesting Jones memory is unsound was not a smart move.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
All of you should read Ralstons column in the Listener – very interesting and it appears much of this info has been coming from someone who goes by the name of “Eumenides”… AKA the furies… Shame, would have loved to have compared notes with this angry and disillusioned deepthroat.. I know that over the years the little but vital piece of info I have on the the same issue has made me a little paranoid at times. So it appears we share a love of greek mythology and a hatred of corruption. I salute my furious friend.
Heres hoping that Eumenides now feels they can let loose a tornado of truth that will suck winston from the political landscape forever.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Meerkats are significant carriers of rabies, and a rabid animal will bite and bite until either it or its victim is dead. I wonder if Winston realised that when he said that the media were meerkats? Bet they’ll bite again, so to that extent I agree with him….
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Maybe, just maybe…. everyone is missing the elephant-in-the-room here? As Letterman points out (above), Peter’s is exhibiting all the signs of a genuine, personality disorder. I have a member of my family who behaves in a very similar manner. It is quite extraordinary (say for example), for someone to deny their own signature affixed to a document, even when witnessed by others. It is bizzare behaviour to watch, it is even more bizzare because they genuinely believe that they are right.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
I omitted to add, that these individuals are truely, Jekyl and Hyde-like, characters.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Rex – ““Perhaps because of this letter, signed by you, saying ‘Michael is in charge of the office, the campaign and everything else’,” ”
superb. Some of us lie in bed at night wishing we’d had the perfect riposte at the ready when some smug wanker tries to humiliate us. But you nailed the overdressed onanist on national tele.
Niiiice.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Rex – big ups to you for being prepared to stand up to Peters. He really is the classic bully, but as we all know, bullies hate it when somebody stands up to them. Thank you for your courage and integrity, and for your dignity while under attack. Kia kaha, kia toa, kia manawanui!
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Winston was on the TV1 news tonight. He was meant to have been interviewed by media on the marble staircase just inside Parliament. But he apparently couldn’t find a step to stand on that he liked (the media were below him) and so stormed off, leaving Guyon Espiner to ask the retreating Peter’s: “So you’re cancelling the interview because you can’t find a step high enough?” Bizarre.
The gift just keeps on giving.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
Is Peters, like Tom Cruise, suffering from a dose of “short man syndrome”?
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Paul M>Maybe, just maybe…. everyone is missing the elephant-in-the-room here?
The elephant… indeed the hairy giant mammoth just dug up from the Russian permafrost… is the Owen Glenn question:
Did Clark or Williams or anyone else connected with Labour suggest to Glenn that he should pay Winston Peters to enter a coalition with Labour?
I can’t believe that it is just coincidence that Glenn donated to Labour, that someone offered money to the Maori Party for them to enter in to a coalition, and that Glenn also paid Peters. Seeing how Clark is standing by her man, no matter how much of an arse he makes of himself and how much of a mockery he makes of ethics, I’m starting to think that Labour used Glenn’s money to buy themselves a third term of office. While Hagar and the media were banging on about a few religious eccentrics, Labour bought their way into government.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
I am not so sure that we can put Winston’s behaviour down to any medical condition, make no mistake this is a carefully calculated campaign on his part to raise his (and NZ firsts) profile, the more he pisses off the media the more the media react and the more his brain dead supporters get in behind him.
I know it would be hard for the media to do this but if they REALLY want to “get” Peters then they can do it with ease, all they have to do is starve the bastard, give him ZERO media coverage and ZERO chance to get his mug on the TV each and every evening.
Those of you who have read Michael Laws book will know that Winston thrives on media coverage, Laws (as I am sure Rex can attest) used to make sure that Winston came out with one of his usual ridiculous statements on a Sunday or Monday night as these were the highest ratings evenings for the News.
Can you imagine how it would blow Peters mind if he made the trek from Bowen Street across to the debating lobby and not one single journalist took any notice, I can just see him there standing around waiting for the press to ask him a question.
That is the way to kill off Peters and kill off NZ first.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Gee, I may also be wrong here (and I don’t think its widely known), but lurking somewhere enshrined in ancient, NZ legislature it states that (literally), anyone can have someone committed (or, apply to be committed), to a psychiatric institution. (Well, it use to be anyway, that I’m certain)
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
davidp: Labour used Glenn’s money to buy themselves a third term of office. While Hagar and the media were banging on about a few religious eccentrics, Labour bought their way into government.
OMG – you’re right! The Electoral Finance Act is retrospective legislation too!
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
“lurking somewhere enshrined in ancient, NZ legislature it states that (literally) anyone, can have someone committed (or, apply to be committed), to a psychiatric institution. (well, it use to anyway)”
Yes, it probably does still lurk there, but the psychiatric institutions have long gone…..
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
> it states that (literally), anyone can have someone committed (or, apply to be committed), to a psychiatric institution.
Wasn’t there $5000 going if someone could arrest Condi Rice? Are you thinking what I’m thinking?
Seriously though, I’m worried he might harm himself in the hope that it’ll win him votes. Winston needs protecting from himself.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
If I recall correctly stayathomemum…one still remains in Wellington (its that ‘funny’ looking building. You can’t miss it!)
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
I’m serious. If someone can dig up the relevant legislation, there is not a High or, Supreme Court judge in the land (based on the paper trail of evidence todate), would not have him committed for assessment. Peter’s actions todate, are not only berefit of a Minister of the Crown, they are berefit of a lunatic.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
I’m truly stunned that Peters can attempt to bluster his way through parliament whilst relying on children’s fairy tales as evidence of the alleged conspiracy against him.
It would have been hard to follow his ranting this evenings unless you were specialised in the field.
Vote:I’d be really keen to hear a criminal psychologists assessment of his gibberish and confused explanation over the past few days
July 30th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
davidp says:
I guess anything is possible in Winston World but my experience suggests they wouldn’t have needed to do so. Winston is as fixated on baubles as kitten with a piece of wool.
Two references for that. First, when the efforts of Terry Heffernan’s research and my strategy got NZF to 30% in the polls Winston was all set to run the argument that he, not Helen Clark, should be called “Leader of the Opposition” or alternatively that the title not apply to anyone since “on the polls” we were National’s “real” opposition.
My first reaction was “Who the **** cares?” and my second was “Are you nuts? NZers detest hubris” (clearly no one has him on a leash now – or at least no one he trusts enough to listen to).
Second was during the 1996 coalition negotiations, when I was asked to advise the Labour negotiating team, led by then President Michael Hirschfeld, on tactics for dealing with Winston. Even taking account of the fact that I knew Laws’s strategy was to get as many of his tame lickspittles (Michael Kirton, Deborah Morris et al) into Cabinet posts as possible, I was still taken aback at the “never mind the policy, show us the baubles” response to everything Labour put forward.
Labour – being a policy wonk bunch – went in worrying they’d have to concede policy on things like immigration. They seemed completely thrown by virtually being asked only about the number of LTDs and corner offices that were on offer. Instead of thrashing out acceptable policy compromises, Hirschfeld and I sat in his cafe in Wellington shaking our heads and speculating how many shiny baubles National was prepared to offer.
Which makes me wonder what might be happening today if Hirschfeld, not Williams, were Labour Party President and Moore were still Leader…
Inventory 2: S**t, thanks mate. You develop a rhino’s hide when you enter politics, so I’m glad to know there’s still a heart underneath it someplace, because that comment touched it. Kia Ora.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Paul Marsden you asked ( 5.40pm) why Peters does not just front up and say where the money went if he has nothing to hide.
He probably does have something to hide. If my hypothesis is correct he does not want to acknowledge the money went from the Spencer Trust, anonymously in 3 or more cheques, each calculated at $10,000 or less and non-disclosable. In other words a vechicle was used for the specific objective of avoiding disclosure. That is hardly consistent with somebody who will vote to restrict the rights of others to speak out in election year, arguing all the time the need to keep big and”secret money” out of NZ politics.
It is pleasing to see that DPF has finally established a thread highlighting what I have been saying for some time, and that is that these practices are not stopped by the EFA. The EFA was never about disclosure of donations. It was about the censorship of New Zealanders in election year.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Rex – you’re welcome. The “insider perspective” you are bringing is fascinating. I remember the way Peters kept the country hanging in ’96 as he played Clark and Bolger off, so it’s really interesting to hear what was going on behind the scenes.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
Busted Blonde, I thought that eumenides was the answer when the tailor asked “euripides ?”
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
John,
Should the EFA then theoretically have been made in a way that rendered Peters’ apparently deceitful actions illegal?
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Thanks John. I guess its all down to all smoke and mirrors then?
Understandably, (after nine years in office), the incumbent regime have been accustomed to the perks of office. Its human nature that they’re not going to give it up without a fight to the death, and they know that death is nigh.
‘Tis often said on this blog…you can’t help thinking of the Titanic.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Actually, there is a direct correlation between Peter’s and the likes of the directors of Bluechip Investments….
He cons these elderly folk, and takes advantage of them all.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Is New Zealand going to take a hit to its international corruption ranking thanks to all the shenanigans that Winston has been up to?
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Paul: The Mental Health (Compulsory Assessment and Treatment) Amendment Act 1999 would be the most relavant legislation. It requires 2 signatures from 2 people who have seen the patient within 3 days of the application for commital.
Vote:July 30th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Folks, I’ve just read through this thread – a fascinating and intelligent discussion. The lefty trolls, notably Philu and Phillip John/Roger Nome, are conspicuous by their absence.
Vote:July 31st, 2008 at 7:01 am
All this talk about a complaint to the SFO just leave 2 questions
Vote:1 Does the SFO still exist I recall in the Granny Herald a report that it had already been shut down pending new legislation on the new organized crime unit?
& 2 Does anyone else feel uncomfortable with the SFO closing just as this big political shit fight is about to erupt?
July 31st, 2008 at 10:14 am
Am I alone in feeling surprised with Sir Robert Jones’ passivity in this scandal?
Other than seeking clarification through NZF party channels, why doesn’t Sir Robert produce the documents in his possession, e.g., cheque stubs, receipts, etc.? The only way to combat the bastard Winston Peters is with fire.
Vote:July 31st, 2008 at 10:17 am
I repeat, NEVER in my time as head of news and current affairs did TVNZ hire private detectives to investigate Winston Peters. He is, at best, mistaken.
Vote:July 31st, 2008 at 10:30 am
And at worst?
Vote:July 31st, 2008 at 10:48 am
I note that Ron Mark also made some cheap comments in the house yesterday, is this not the same Ron Mark who was charged with statutory rape?
Vote:July 31st, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Sick him Rex, sick him.
Vote:July 31st, 2008 at 12:57 pm
To Russell Brown’s column you should go, hmmm? Much truth shall you find there, yes:
“This feast of farce extended yesterday to John Key declaring in the House that he, as Prime Minister, would have been asking the hard questions of Winston Peters — and then failing to ask Winston Peters any questions at all, despite having the opportunity to do so. National’s tactic all along has been to gamely look over Peters’ shoulder and jab its finger at Helen Clark (the Herald’s ever-helpful editorial column joined in today too). Clark, clearly, isn’t about to go burrowing around in another political party’s finances, especially when it might put her government at risk in an election year. Presumably, she has a threshold: I’m just not sure National has anything like the nerve to push her towards it.”
Vote:July 31st, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Nigel Yes the SFO despite much protest from my organisation and many others is being folded into the Police so that its investigative powers will be nobbled. the excuse is so it can concerntrate on organised crime meaning gangs and P etc.
the real reason is that the Gumint dont want to spend the money to go after white collar crims as its usually Nat and Act voters who lose money to these crims.
Alas as the Finance Cos failures proved a lot of the socialists and some green supporters also lost money but the socilaist pollies are too thick to understand the votes they have lost.
the other reason the SFO is being disbanded is so that cases like Peters dont have anywhere to be properly investigated.
Mind you the current SFO dont have the will capacity and capability to investigate and so the Peters case will be dismissed by Grant Liddell whose too frightened to upset the 9th floor and his new boss Howie Broad the PMs favourite Commissioner of Police.
Meanwhile other countries like Aus are beefing up their SFO and a UK SFO opo whose been very successful in cracking major stuff is aghast at what the Gumint is doing.
As he said the Police are very good at general crime. they dont do so well in the complex world of business crime. they dont have the expertise or the commercial nouse to be able to get inside the white collar crims head.
So NZ is going to become a paradise for international cyber crims identity crims both corproate and individual and there is nothing to stop them.
IMHO in a years time the MSM will be full of really bad stuff with NZ companies identities being used to facilitate frauds and scams. Watch the FATF and OECD dome down like a ton of bricks then
Their last reports 18 months ago said Must do better. Nothings happened other than little Lianne shooting any messenger who warns of the loomig problems
Mind you of course little Lianne wont be in the hot seat with S hits Fan
Vote:July 31st, 2008 at 1:28 pm
“the real reason is that the Gumint dont want to spend the money to go after white collar crims as its usually Nat and Act voters who lose money to these crims.
Alas as the Finance Cos failures proved a lot of the socialists and some green supporters also lost money but the socilaist pollies are too thick to understand the votes they have lost.”
And we KNOW this, because Police and Victim Support always quiz crime victims on their voting habits!
Vote:Awesome
July 31st, 2008 at 1:30 pm
And we KNOW this, because Police and Victim Support always quiz crime victims on their voting habits!
That would be an interesting statistic. Do we have any data on that?
Vote:July 31st, 2008 at 1:46 pm
We’d need a psychic to probe gd’s imagination & preconceived notions I think. Nothing that resembles fact though. As usual.
Vote:July 31st, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Interesting. The Party was a rabble when it was formed and is still a rabble. NZ1 intentionally targeted the oldies as they were semi organised and had a structure through a network. Get them on side and you had a blockvote. If there was a better vehicle it would have been used. Give generously and get the reward which of course is votes.
Vote:As for Glens graft. He paid expecting reward. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in noddyland. If the smell hadnt come out in Feb he would have his reward by now. The only worse position Baubles could be in is if the graft had been given and the reward given. Methinks Glen may be pissed.
Go back to the scampi row and see who gained from that and what was speculated. Maybe the horses were secondary. Who made most noise.Need l tell you..
And Roberty Bob, he’s always been straight up and we know what has happened there. As for labour..They got 500k from Glen and he got a queens bauble. But being generous he has been a great benefactor to Auckland uni and maybe deserves something.
Maybe we should get Banaramamama to come over and have a coup and get rid of the whole lt of them and start again.
July 31st, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Actually does anyone have Glens email, the velas email and Bobs email. I just might whip out a few emails for donations without any possibility of favours.Methinks lll be told to FORFFF
Vote:July 31st, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Unfortunately not my effort as it would be a hit. Taken from another blog.
This is not meant in any way to point a finger at anyone…YEAH RIGHT.
To the music of Bob Dylans version of Mr Bojangles and the 2nd version to Robbie Williams music
I knew a man Baubangles and he’d perform for you
in gucci shoes.
Silver hair, cardin shirt and well pressed pants,
that sleight of hand
He’d yell and lie, yell and lie,
then he’d turn totally around.
Mr. Baubangles,
Mr. Baubangles,
Lie!
I met him in an upmarket Bar in St Tropez,
where we would dine out.
Dapper suit, well dressed man
as he spoke right out.
He talked of legal strife, legal strife,
laughed and slapped his wallet a bit.
Mr. Baubangles,
Mr. Baubangles,
graft!
He said the name, Baubangles, and he winked at me
across the way.
rubbing fingers together for a better play
for me he would jump high if l transferred enough.
He let go a laugh, he let go a laugh,
as he shook hands all around.
Mr. Baubangles,
Mr. Baubangles,
graft!
Yeah, lie!
He mixed with those at poncy shows and embassy’s
throughout the Globe.
He spoke with tears of fifteen years how his lackeys and him
had just travelled all about.
lackeys up retired, up and retired
and after 20 minutes he’s still forlorn.
Mr. Baubangles,
Mr. Baubangles,
graft!
He said, “I dance now at ev’ry chance on the worlds stage
favours for big tips.
But most of the time I spend in these swanky bars
’cause I drinks a bit.”
He shook his head and… and he shook his head.
I heard someone ask him, “Grease” (greeze)
Mr. Baubangles,
Mr. Baubangles,
grease!
lie!
Mr. Baubangles, graft!”
If you prefer the Robbie Williams version
I knew a man Baubangles
And he’d perform for you
for big bucks
With silver hair a natty shirt
And well creased pants
He would do the old soft shoe
He would yell and lie
yell and lie
Then he’d quieten down
He told me of the time he worked with
powerful men
Throughout the world
He spoke with tears of funfilled years
How his lackeys and he
They would travel about.
But his lackeys up and retired,
up and retired
And after fifteen years he’s relieved
He said “I dance now
At every chance on the world stage
For favours and big tips
But most the time I spend
in these swanky pubs
You see “I drinks a bit”
Then he shook his head
Oh lord when he shook his head
I could swear I heard someone say greeze
Mister Baubangles
Vote:Call him Mister Baubangles
Mister Baubangles, resign PLEASE
July 31st, 2008 at 11:24 pm
“..# side show bob (747) Add karma Subtract karma +1 Says:
July 31st, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Sick him Rex, sick him..”
sic…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote: