A new Russian war

August 11th, 2008 at 8:14 am by David Farrar

Over the past few years as has clamped down on opposition and the media, I’ve kept a vain hope that it wasn’t necessairly a return to the days of the Soviet Union.

But their against shows that the bad old days are back. Sure – not to the same extent. The old USSR will never return, but it seems obvious Russia desires control of territory outside its borders.

I don’t think anyone knows where this will end. Will they take over Georgia completely or just parts of it? Will the US or NATO station troops in Eastern Europe? What will happen if Georgia does join NATO?

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52 Responses to “A new Russian war”

  1. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    Nothing like the prospect of a liberal US president to bring the opportunists out eh?

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  2. Glutaemus Maximus (2,207 comments) says:

    Once again it will be all about oil.

    Just watch Putin grab Georgia back, get control of the pipeline, and try and screw the bobbins out of the West.

    The Georgians were very rash to have a go.

    Ukraine has now rattled its sabre!

    Not looking good for World harmony.

    Putin is more vindictive than Helun, and has the military to do the job!

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  3. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    This part of the world has been the source of trouble in europe for well over 100 years -and longer. There seems to be something missing in the brains of the people in the area ranging from the Balkans in the west right across to Afganistan. They dont get on with their neighbours, they all seem to deeply hate other groups to the extent that they will kill just for the simple reason of getting rid of someone from these other groups. In recent times there has been a move to independance for insanly small populations. This region of South Isetia (or whatever its called) has a population of 70,000 and they want complete independance.
    They are too bloody small for that sort of stupidity. The Pacific is full of such small nations and they cant survive either.
    Theyre idiots and they should be ignored. To take too much notice of them will just make the conflict bigger.

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  4. Mike S (229 comments) says:

    Oil.
    And war.
    Whoopee.

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  5. Ross Nixon (559 comments) says:

    The way I read it is that Georgia had it coming.
    They agreed to a ceasefire with South Ossetia on the 7th – then invaded on the 8th.

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  6. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    they had it coming? HAHAHA jesus!

    putin is one dodgy mofo.

    anyone else want the good ole days of the early 90’s back??? a poor russia, crusing around the world begging for shit… not the current – we have some cash now so we are motherfuckers – russia.

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  7. GPT1 (2,121 comments) says:

    NATO won’t bring Georgia on board. Too much chance of getting involved in a shooting war. NATO is purely about ensuring the US will pay for European defence. With few exceptions (UK, Canada particularly) the NATO’s efforts in Afghanistan have been less than stellar.

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  8. Glutaemus Maximus (2,207 comments) says:

    My guess is the Russian bombing of the Georgian Parliament building within 24 hrs, and then all bets are off!

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  9. Zippy Gonzales (485 comments) says:

    One big difference with the bad old days of the USSR. The USSR went broke, today’s Russia has lots of oil money.

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  10. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    umm is Georgia Nuclear?

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  11. Glutaemus Maximus (2,207 comments) says:

    I don’t believe that Georgia is nuclear. (declared)

    Have a look a Janes to see the huge disparity in military might.

    It’s like Alaska taking on the rest of the States!

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  12. Grant Michael McKenna (1,159 comments) says:

    Georgia does not possess or produce nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons, and although they have industrial material which would enable them to create a dirty bomb, their only nuclear reactor is decommissioned and all material has been transferred to Dounreay, Scotland.
    The US has been training Georgian troops for quite a while, and seems to have done so in support of a policy of dismantling Russia as a potential adversary.

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  13. Brian (Shadowfoot) (80 comments) says:

    Yahoo is censoring information about this. One user from Georgia had his questions and the answers removed from Yahoo Answers. Fortunately Google’s cache has the thread http://ping.fm/hWqSX

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  14. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    cool. thanks.

    i shouldnt have let my stratfor membership expire! maybe time to rejoin

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  15. Glutaemus Maximus (2,207 comments) says:

    My concern is not Georgia’s nukes. My concern is Ukraine’s reaction.

    This will make the Russians even more belligerent. They don’t like people messing with their near abroad.

    This is going to make everyone very sweaty for the next 2 weeks or so.

    Eduarde Shevednaze led Georgia to Independence. The Russians have never forgiven him.

    This is a nasty internicine war. Don’t forget the Georgians fought alongside their orthodox christian brothers in Chechnya!

    And NOT in a good way.

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  16. Glutaemus Maximus (2,207 comments) says:

    The US will by now probably have taken the option for a silent upgrade in Military Readiness.

    This is serious. Only because of that oil pipeline, and they were already unhappy about Putin taking the PM’s role.

    The biggest problem here is Russian pride. And Xenophobia.

    They all still have fond memories of those big military parades in Red Square

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  17. PhilBest (5,121 comments) says:

    There’s a disturbing recent column from Pat Buchanan (I know, I know, but even he can provide valuable insights at times), pointing out that Russia and China topped recent Pew Polls of peoples satisfaction at the direction their country was going. He likened this to the approval granted to the Nazis in Germany in the 1930’s on the back of the stability and economic improvements they brought about in Germany.

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  18. ghostwhowalks2 (118 comments) says:

    The US with its own army in occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan is in no position to call the pot black.

    And NATO having invaded Serbia in order to allow sovereignty for an ethnic enclave for Kosovo cant hardly be outraged if Russia does the same for South Ossetia and Abkahazia.

    That oil pipeline had been out of action since being blown up 2 weeks ago in Turkey .

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  19. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    To those interested in Georgia, you recall of course the Rose revolution that seceded Georgia from the former USSR.

    The US were behind all of those so called colour revolutions, in fact IIRC it was Mark Brzezhinsky, Zbiegniew’s son, that was heavily involved in the Rose.

    One of the possibilities posed in a link I gave on the general debate thread is that this is a diversionary tactic to draw Russia’s attention away from whatever it is that the very very large US battle fleet currently steaming toward the Gulf, intend to do.

    As I’ve said many many times, whenever Iran is raised on this blog in fact, the danger of US action in Iran is Russia and China’s involvement, not to mention what would happen to the troops in Iraq.

    As everyone who can add 2 + 2 should know, the Pentagon is against an Iran adventure, and this is precisely why we’ve seen recent high-level resignations (e.g. Fallon) in favour of people more receptive to such ideas.

    The Israel political lobby in the US, the neo-cons and the US media, all appear to be in favour. The latter’s slavish repetition of the Iran talking points across both left and right media organs, of course, raises the question of why the media would operate in such lockstep and to answer that you’d probably be wise to look into the ownership of said media.

    Who knows if the CIA (apart from some factions such as the one that released the NIE) are in favour or not. However, if they are, then we can all kiss our arses goodbye because if Iran gets hit it will NOT be a localised action that’s over in a few days, that is guaranteed.

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  20. BlairM (2,339 comments) says:

    For the first, and possibly last time, I agree with GWW!

    The Ossetians have been having the shit kicked out of them by the Georgians for years. The US has no right to criticise Russia for defending a minority group.

    We need to get past this idea of Russians always being the enemy. In this instance, while not condoning the agression, I don’t think it is any less justified than the US war in Iraq.

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  21. Richard Hurst (857 comments) says:

    The Russians WANT the pipeline. One million barrels a day in light sweet crude when the pipeline is running normally which avoids both Russia and Iran allowing Europe a reliable supply free from Russian control.
    The Russians have been funding and arming the rebels for some time in the hope of provoking Georgia and the Russians will not stop until the pipeline is either theirs or destroyed.
    Over the next few weeks the Euro will slide in response and Europe will have to start building more nuclear power plants, wind energy and bio fuel/ethanol conversion in earnest to get as free of oil as possible and prevent the Russians becoming masters of Europe. Russia is making a play not just for Georgia, but the long term control of much of the world. Considering the corrupt ex-KGB bastards in charge of Russia these days this is a worrying development.

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  22. Glutaemus Maximus (2,207 comments) says:

    Iran is the wild card.

    Russia is now just wild!

    The Georgians have been sold a pup!

    This has got all the wrong motives attached to it.

    A stupid F**kwit US President determined to go out with a bang!

    And a really nasty KGB spook on a power trip.

    Just the wrong formula, and sentiment for a happy resolution!

    I always hate American Election Years.

    Too Random by far. The next 24 hrs will be critical.

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  23. Glutaemus Maximus (2,207 comments) says:

    Latest from CNN.

    Amid growing international concerns, the United States has accused Russia of a heavy handed military response and Ukraine has warned it may block Russian ships from returning to Crimean naval bases.

    Domino Theory at its very best in a new order!

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  24. Al-Girta (60 comments) says:

    Peace loving Serbians, Taliban, al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein American illegal war aggression war machine occupation US trained Georgian army snoted take that US war mongers. I am the walrus, Coo coo kachoo ka coo coo kachoo.

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  25. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    Here’s a Russian view of the situation.

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  26. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    Also note the Israeli involvement in training Georgian troops.

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  27. Glutaemus Maximus (2,207 comments) says:

    My Guess is that Gen. Petraeus will have responsibilty for taking out Iran quite soon. Israel to assist.

    Russia will have been goaded over Georgia, and has shown its intentions.

    Iran is far too much of a problem to be left in peace, but having Russia on its Northern border was always going to be complicated.

    The Yanks are very unhappy to have a resurgent Russia.

    This is a ugly scenario, heightened by the US fears of more fuel control by Russia.

    Cuba Crisis and then some. Now it is up close and personal, with the Fundamentalist issue being a catalyst.

    Bottom line:

    Energy, Energy, Energy

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  28. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    Interesting “coincidence” about the US-sponsored July war games isn’t it?

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  29. polemic (460 comments) says:

    Very pertinent Post Philbest, at 10:29 am

    There’s a disturbing recent column from Pat Buchanan (I know, I know, but even he can provide valuable insights at times), pointing out that Russia and China topped recent Pew Polls of peoples satisfaction at the direction their country was going. He likened this to the approval granted to the Nazis in Germany in the 1930’s on the back of the stability and economic improvements they brought about in Germany.

    Fortunately the US is still militarily great enough to hold the balance of power otherwise we would rapidly see this Nazism returning.

    As for Energy the free world needs it why defend the right of undemocratically self appointed dictators to strangle the World by withholding it for self promoting advantage.

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  30. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    Unfortunately polemic, anyone who sees the US as the unadulterated ‘good guys’ and Russia-China as the unadulterated ‘bad guys’ is not seeing the world correctly.

    In addition, anyone who is blind to the POSSIBILITY there is an even deeper dynamic going on, are as blind as those who think for example that the media can be simply divided into left-right factions and who fail to see the common threads that run across both of those somewhat superficial divisions.

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  31. Glutaemus Maximus (2,207 comments) says:

    This is a game of Chicken! Don’t like it at all.

    The Yanks are spoiling for a conventional war to prove their muscle and sell a shit load more weapons to the World.

    Iran will be turned over in months, as the population have been suppressed by I’m a Dinner Jacket and friends.

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  32. stephen (4,063 comments) says:

    Philbest, polemic, I’d be a little cautious about saying ‘I think the direction our country is going is terrible’ if I had spies and tyrants-a-plenty in my country…OTOH according to the media/anecdotal accounts, higher wages seem to be a bit of a salve for authoritarianism.

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  33. polemic (460 comments) says:

    Ah Reid, you have missed the vital point, and I’m not claiming that the US is perfect but the critical difference is that they have enshrined in their law through their constitution, inherent freedoms which preserves a freely electable democratic government that is not seen by those nations such as Iran, Zimbabwe, China,Pre-war Iraq, Cuba, Burma etc and to a point Russia under Putin.

    No one can extol the virtues of any country that does not have a free democratically elected Government – they are all both corrupt and repressive.

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  34. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    That’s true polemic the US has a very strong constitution, it’s just that it appears the tenants in it have been eroded over the years the most recent example being the severe erosion of the Separation of Powers doctrine by the current administration e.g. through the prevalent use of Presidential signing statements which erodes the will of Congress and the tremendous extension of power exercised by the current VP. Not to mention the acceptance of torture as a legitimate interrogation technique.

    You could also argue that the will of the people is not particularly reflected by either the current Congress or the Executive given their current record low approval ratings.

    My point is that just because a nation has what we would regard as a robust constitutional framework, it doesn’t necessarily follow that its actions must therefore be regarded as less abhorrent than actions taken by a nation which does not have such in place.

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  35. LC (162 comments) says:

    My take on it is that without an effective airforce, don’t go making trouble.

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  36. PhilBest (5,121 comments) says:

    Reid, chew on THIS.

    Redbaiter, you’ll LOVE this. If you were not already aware of it……?

    Excerpts from:

    “Will There Be An “After Socialism”?”
    By Alan Charles Kors, distinguished professor of history at the University of Pennsylvania

    “……..The pathology of Western intellectuals has commit­ted them to an adversarial relationship with the culture-free markets and individual rights-that has produced the greatest alleviation of suf­fering, the greatest liberation from want, ignorance, and superstition, and the greatest increase of bounty and opportunity in the history of all hu­man life. No one has explained the etiology of this pathology adequately, although it constitutes one of the deepest flaws and tragedies of societies based on free markets and individual rights, the most radically progres­sive civilizations that the planet has seen thus far. It is a pathology that with each passing decade becomes coarser and more detached from any principle of reality………

    “The cognitive behavior of Western intellectuals faced with the accom­plishments of their own society, on the one hand, and with the socialist ideal and then the socialist reality, on the other, takes one’s breath away. In the midst of unparalleled social mobility in the West, they cry “caste.” In a society of munificent goods and services, they cry either “poverty” or “consumerism.” In a society of ever richer, more varied, more productive, more self-defined, and more satisfying lives, they cry “alienation.” In a society that has liberated women, racial minorities, religious minorities, and gays and lesbians to an extent that no one could have dreamed possible just fifty years ago, they cry “oppression.” In a society of bound­less private charity, they cry “avarice.” In a society in which hundreds of millions have been free riders upon the risk, knowledge, and capital of others, they decry the “exploitation” of the free riders. In a society that broke, on behalf of merit, the seemingly eternal chains of station by birth, they cry “injustice.” In the names of fantasy worlds and mystical perfec­tions, they have closed themselves to the Western, liberal miracle of in­dividual rights, individual responsibility, merit, and human satisfaction. Like Marx, they put words like “liberty” in quotation marks when these refer to the West. Note well, of course, that when an enemy arose that truly hated Western intellectuals-fascism and Nazism-and whose de­feat depended upon the West’s self-belief, intellectuals had no difficulty at all in defining and indeed popularizing a contest between good and evil…….

    “This intellectual behavior is a pathology that freezes time selectively to suit its purposes. The first economic dislocations of capitalist industrial­ization became the intellectuals’ model for the future that would emerge from such dynamism, as if one should ignore the process that raised previously unimaginable numbers of human beings to a dignified, free life, protected as never before from helplessness before nature and men. Russia from 1914 to 1917 became frozen for all time, with war and Ras­putin being the only alternative to Stalinism, as if the curve of Russian economic and social development by the early twentieth century did not point to energetic and promising change. Once able to mobilize large numbers at any moment, Communists were given a right to permanent and absolute power, as if the Republican Party of 1920, which at least won an honest election, had gained a permanent right to govern America and to choose the party’s own successors.

    The intellectual manifestation of this pathology was and is a collective delusion that ignores both history and ethology. It is a belief that good­ness, stable order, justice, peace, freedom, legal equality, mutual forbear­ance, and kindness are the default state of things in human affairs, and that malice, disorder, violence, coercion, legal inequality, intolerance, and cruelty are the aberrations that stand in need of historical explanation. Getting the defaults precisely and systematically wrong, Western intel­lectuals fail to understand and appreciate the form of society that has given us the ability to alter them. The pathology is also the demented belief that evolved successful societies may be redrawn at will by intel­lectuals with political power and that the most productive human cul­tures are almost wholly dysfunctional…….

    “Rousseau and all the Marxisizing intellectuals who have cast their dark­ness over the past one hundred years and more have had it all backward in this domain. It is not aversion to difference that requires historical explanation-aversion to difference is the human condition. Rather, it is liberal society’s partial but breathtaking ability to overcome tribalism and exclusion that demands elucidation, above all in the singular American accomplishment. Tyranny and abuse of power have also been the human condition. It is, in contrast, the limitation of power and the recognition of individual rights that demand historical explanation. It is not slavery that startles, because slavery is one of the most universal of all human insti­tutions. Rather, it is the view of self-ownership, liberty, and voluntary labor that requires historical explanation, the values and agencies by which the West identified slavery as an evil, and, to what should be our wonder, abolished it. Western intellectuals write, dramatically, as if it were relative pockets of Western poverty that should occasion our aston­ishment, when in fact the term until recently for almost infinitely worse absolute levels of poverty was simply “life.” What generally remains unaddressed by our secular intellectuals is the question of what values, institutions, knowledge, behaviors, risks, and liberties allowed the West to create such prosperity that we even notice such relative poverty at all, let alone believe that it is eradicable. Tragically, the very effort to overturn the evolved systems and values of the West has produced the most ex­treme examples in history of, precisely, malice, disorder, violence, coer­cion, legal inequality, intolerance, and cruelty………

    “Ironically, of course, the main traditions of socialism and Communism both claimed Marxist credentials, and the Marxists surely had one argu­ment right: we should judge human systems, in the final analysis, not as theories and ideal abstractions, but as actual history and practice. In ineffable bad faith, they applied that measure to everything except what allegedly the most to them. From one end of the earth to the other, Marxist intellectuals, propagandists, professors, and apologists never contrasted the existing “socialist world” with the more or less liberal societies of Western Europe and North America . They contrasted, instead, a fictional perfect society that never was to an existing imperfect society that had accomplished actual wonders, Marxists were fond of denounc­ing such antirealism as “philosophical idealism” when they condemned it in others. It was they, however, who feigned an ideal world of their own spinning-it was they, that is, who were always the most antirealist of all. It is fitting, now that historical evidence has taken everything away from Marxism, that its heirs-the anti-Western postmodernists of the cultural Left-should embrace that antirealism explicitly, as a chosen cast of mind…….

    “After generations of conflict between two systems, where now is the excitement of comparative scholarship? From the economists to the cul­tural scholars of gender and sexuality to the ecologists, history now has opened a vast terrain in which to study the differences in real terms between private property and commons, markets and planning, and in­dividual rights and collective purpose. Have the Greens, in anguished study of centrally planned pollution of air and water, discovered the tragedy of the commons? Are historians teaching their students any dif­ferently about the human consequences of free markets in a real world of comparative phenomena? Have our Foucauldians and postmodernists reexamined their own premises in the light of intensive study of gender and sexuality behind the Iron Curtain or, indeed, so close by in Cuba ? It is extraordinary that we do not have an intellectual, moral, and, above all, historical accounting of who was right and wrong, and why, in their analyses of socialism and of socialism in power. We live in an era of appalling bad faith……..”

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  37. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    PhilBest, that article interesting as it is, really has no relevance to me since I’m not a lefty and every one of the 1028 comments I’ve made on this blog reflect that.

    Some conservatives sometimes mistakenly interpret me as a lefty since some of the views I espouse coincide with what those conservatives perceive to be a leftist perspective.

    Far be it from me to explain to such people where my perspective actually comes from. I prefer to simply state my interpretation and leave it to others to accept or reject or research the points I make.

    One thing constantly bemuses me however and please don’t take this as necessarily referring to you PhilBest. That is, some people seem to imagine that by pointing out the orientation of a site from which a supporting article is taken, negates the actual point being made in the post. Such tactics ignore the possibility that truth may arise from any angle and really says more about the restricted thinking processes of the person that adopts such.

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  38. Lawrence Hakiwai (119 comments) says:

    This war isn’t about being left wing or right, it’s about power. The power to take what you want or deny something to someone who won’t do what you tell them to. Russia is reminding all the former Soviet states it still has a very big military and now with oil at $100+ dollars a barrel, they’ve got the money to throw their weight around as well.

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  39. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    The former Soviet states didn’t need reminding of that Lawrence, they live there, after all. There are bigger games going on here than just a local conflict in Georgia.

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  40. baxter (893 comments) says:

    I hope the Russians are keeping a tally of the carbon emissions they are propelling into the atmosphere in accord with the Kyoto Agreement that they have signed up to.

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  41. PhilBest (5,121 comments) says:

    Apologies, reid. Of course, I should have remembered, you and I are in agreement most of the time. It does get confusing with multiple guys with the same name, spelled with a capital and without, and so on.

    You will probably enjoy the article I posted excerpts from. Tell the truth, I’ve been bursting to post it ever since I first read it recently, it is such a “goodie” of its kind. Hope Redbaiter sees it.

    I’m interested in what you say about Georgia. I read recently, an interview by the Wall Street Journal of Czech President Vaclav Klaus, who I respect, and he said that he thought that the West is being a bit hard on Vladimir Putin, and that he was doing the best job in impossible circumstances. I’ll be very interested to read any comments by Vaclav Klaus on this new issue. Bear in mind that Mr Klaus is the President of a country that is offering bases to the USA for anti-ballistic missiles, so for him to stick up for Mr Putin is not at all to put himself in that circle of “wannabe Imperialists”.

    But I disagree with you if you’re indirectly sticking up for the “right” of Iran to have nukes. Sorry. I’m right there with the “Ahmadinejad is the next madman committed to a Jewish holocaust” crowd, and the “If only we’d actually taken Hitler at his word instead of chuckling and assuming he didn’t MEAN it” crowd. The best thing that could happen is a new revolution in Iran, toppling the fundinutters and holding new real democratic elections. Like in Iraq.

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  42. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    Where I am currently with Iran and nukes Phil is that I think the western media have been playing the same propaganda game with Iran as they did with Iraq’s WMDs.

    I have been watching it since it first started some years ago, and not once have I seen hard evidence that Iran is seeking to weaponise their nuclear program. Repeated media emphasis on lines such as Ahmadinejad’s ‘wipe Israel off the map’ to me reeks of transparent propaganda. It belies the fact Iran has a quite complex governance and political structure with all views represented and yet the west is presented with a simple picture with a single consistent theme that in my view is clearly designed to make some people even perhaps the majority, think that it behaves as one amorphous entity.

    So I asked myself, where is the logical benefit to Iran of pursuing nukes? Point one: A non-nuclear armed Iran could not politically or legally be threatened by Israel or any western nuclear-armed nation. The instant that was to happen the entire world would be down on that threatening nation like a ton of bricks. Point two: To imagine that it’s in Iran’s interests to threaten a nuclear-armed Israel is also illogical since Iran in doing so invites its own nuclear destruction, whether or not Iran itself has any nuclear weapons. The MAD doctrine applies the world over, everytime. Point three: Iran is inviting sanctions against herself if she pursues nuclear weapons. So to my way of thinking, it’s really in Iran’s interest to eschew nuclear weapons and that’s what she has consistently said she is doing. Besides, if Iran really wanted nukes it would have picked them up as the USSR disintegrated in the 90’s, and who’s to say it didn’t?

    I therefore currently believe that the Iran-nuke story is a beat-up designed by interests who wish harm to Iran. And who might that be? Well it’s no secret that Israel’s two greatest security threats are Iran and Iraq and I find it extraordinarily convenient that both of those nations have come under the gun during the time of the most Israel-friendly US administration in living memory. Anyone who closely studies US politics should be aware of the nature and extent of the influence of Israel which has been there for a long long time but has been particularly strong in this Administration.

    I also observe that it appears that not everyone in the US wishes Iran ill, and despite the universal encouragement of the current Administration and the media to make everyone think Iran is a bloodthirsty tyrant intent on destroying Israel, certain elements in the military and intelligence apparatus from time to time make an attempt to out the alternative perspective, such as we saw when the NIE was released that said Iran was years away from obtaining nukes. Of course those elements only have momentary impact since those events are quickly swept away by the alternative perspective, but it’s worth noting them when they occur.

    Sorry Phil for the long post but in summary my current view is that Iran is not entitled to have nukes and neither is Israel, since neither have signed the non-proliferation treaty. Iran however is as entitled as Australia is, to have a nuclear energy program and for the reasons above, that is all I believe she is currently pursuing.

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  43. JSF2008 (422 comments) says:

    Mr Farrar did you note winston peters shadow the president of georgia the fuckwit who thought with bush the fuckwits blessing rocketed ossetta, hes as slippery as our winston I STARTED IT BUT THOSE NASTY RUSSIANS attacked us ????? SHIT FLOWS AROUND THE WORLD, after comming out of winston peters party POLICY.bomb georgia INTO THE GROUND RUSSIA FOR THE DEATHS CAUSED BY THAT ROCKET BOMBARDMENT the loose cannon president needs to be taught REALLITY, losser Georgia

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  44. PhilBest (5,121 comments) says:

    Hmmm, reid, that is a difficult one. I rather like the famous quote of Natan Sharansky, “…..never trust a State any more than it trusts its own people……”. I am inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to decent countries who act pre-emptively against a sworn enemy with crazy leaders, who are so repressive and brutal within their own borders that it is impossible to get any accurate “intelligence” from “feet on the ground” sources. I still stand by that assessment regarding Iraq, too, by the way.

    And also by the way,by way of contrast, the USA is such a decent, soft humanistic country that it most likely has never succeeded at any time in its history, from preventing penetration of even its most secret military programs by its worst enemies. Do you get my point?

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  45. Political Busker (231 comments) says:

    I disagree with you focus that this is about energy GM and agree more with the insinuation that there are more fundamental principles being deployed. Certainly the USA and western styled democratic influence laying any regional claim to nuclear return (first) strike capacities and arterial controls in energy distribution would presumably cause reasonable (as beyond ordinary treaty conditions) engagement – but what is more deeply alarming is the demonstrable refusal for diplomacy.

    Russia are going to leave whomsover it is they want to hear the message, with that message. For me – the focus is Israel still holding this authority of undeclared nuclear capacity. The USA have one primary purpose that would cause them preemptive engagement with any force in the world be they old timers like Russia or relative minnows like a profit rich rebuilding wasteland for a newly planted western democracy like Iraq.

    I remember a Putin quote not so long ago – stating – “the wolf is rising.” What did he mean? Whatever he meant the bear sure is standing up on his hind legs.

    2000 innocents later… and then some quickly growing.

    So if any part of that assessment is right – who would have the balls to stand up to Israel and make a declaration that they are nuclear capable and ask just how many missiles they are hiding under the worlds’ religious capital?

    Winston?

    These bodies in power thrive as such monsters bound tightly to idolatory and greed.

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  46. reid (16,447 comments) says:

    Well Phil I can’t judge Iran as being oppressive and brutal since I have no evidence that it is and I take western media sound bites about the effect of Sharia law with a grain of salt for reasons given in my previous post.

    Not too sure what point you’re making about the US, care to expand?

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  47. JSF2008 (422 comments) says:

    wow i cannot wait for the usa to open the 56 front since the non fighter im running away bush arrived on the scene, we are comming to save you georgia ONE DAY SOON , will those nasty russians with REAL gun be gone PLEASE

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  48. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,752 comments) says:

    You mess with the bull, you get the horns.

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  49. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,752 comments) says:

    Political Busker says at 5.33pm

    2000 innocents later

    Those are 2000 Russian citizens dead. Is was George that thought it would be fun to unleash rocket attacks on the South Ossetian capital, Tskhinvali. It took Russia more than a day to respond and commit forces to stop Georgia’s ethnic cleansing.

    Personally, I hope Russia kills the Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili. Preferably live on television by Spetsnaz special forces storming the presidential place or kicking in the door on some backward village outhouse.

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  50. Glutaemus Maximus (2,207 comments) says:

    What a mess for everyone.

    No point in looking for blame.

    We all need them to calm down.

    And yet the tanks keep rolling.

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  51. Glutaemus Maximus (2,207 comments) says:

    The Russians are looking likely to take Georgia as another part of the New Empire.

    Putin is a clever operator, and his Chechnyan adventure endeared him to just about every segment of Russian Society.

    Georgian Campaign is being run directly by Putin. This will cement his popularity.

    Expect the Baltic States to be next, and Ukraine to be subverted.

    The West can do nothing apart from pay these corrupt, classless, and patently evil puppet masters.

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  52. PhilBest (5,121 comments) says:

    Reid, you start to sound like your problem is sheer lack of information, or biased sources, on Iran. Google “Evin Prison”, and see what comes up.

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