Jones threatens NZ First with Police
August 5th, 2008 at 8:21 am by David FarrarBob Jones has said he will complain to the Police if he does not get an answer from NZ First:
Sir Robert Jones has written again to New Zealand First, this time threatening to go the police if he gets another “evasive reply” about where his $25,000 donation went. …
“My sole concern is the money was used for party purposes, but getting a straight answer from New Zealand First is a recipe for disappointment,” Sir Robert said. “If the money has not reached the party, it constitutes theft. If I receive another evasive reply then clearly it is a matter for the police.”
Here is the dilemna for NZ First. If they say “Yes the money was spent on behalf of NZ First” then they have arguably filed a false donations return. If they say “No, we won’t tell you” then Bob will go to the Police.
August 5th, 2008 at 8:26 am
There is no threat from the Police. Helen has said she takes Winston’s word. That’s enough for the cops. Winston will refuse. Helen will get a few more days in parliament to pass her bill. Sorry Bob, you thought NZ was a democracy.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 8:31 am
I’m not sure you can claim theft when you write a check out to a trust and it is then banked by that trust.
[DPF: Maybe not theft but false pretences. If you door knock for charity but get them to make the cheque out to your brother's trust, then you would be in trouble]
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Im not sure about that Danyl.
If someone went around to a little old ladies house and said they were collecting for the Salvation Army and asked her to make the cheque for her donation out to a trust which never passed the money on, wouldn’t that be fraud?
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 8:36 am
You can when you were mislead as to its purposes. Thats called fraud Danyl. Its even a law and everything.
It works even better when people are accuntable to them. Just stop trying to slide the lying wanker out from under the consequences of his own dishonesty.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 8:42 am
Watching Labour claim the moral high ground…irritating.
Listening to Labour’s bizarre accusations that business corrupts the National Party- aggravating.
Discovering that Labour was projecting its experiences onto National… priceless.
So much of the paranoia of the last few years is now explicable- our Dear Leader thought that she was better than others, and therefore if she were corrupt, they must be worse.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 8:43 am
Maybe Danyl (but I don’t share your obvious legal expertise), however I’m sure Sir Bob won’t roll over and give up if this doesn’t provide him with the simple answer he requests – he’s not a quitter.
If NZ First prefer to die a death from a thousand cuts then that is their choice.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 8:52 am
Couldn’t let another day go by without coverage of the Peters saga could we? This aint news, it’s a manufactured “story”. Yes, Peters is a lying hypocrite and we would be better off without him polluting the body politic, but people ought to be able to see the very obvious, concerted campaign going on here.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 8:57 am
Jafa
Interesting that you feel that fraud is not a “story”, you used to be one of the more reasonable lefties, sadly it seems that you have become as power hungry as the rest of them.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 8:59 am
“..but people ought to be able to see the very obvious, concerted campaign going on here..”
ain’t that the truth..
..and i know dpf..that you mistook my (national) you..for a (you) you..
..as peters’ promised target in questiontime..
..but you have been a key part of this ‘campaign’..
..and it wouldn’t surprise me if peters had a swipe at you..eh..?
btw..isn’t englishs’ ‘long game’ looking more and more on the cards..?
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:00 am
Sir Bob must be just a little bemused over the fact that he gave $25,000 to a politician whose policies he didn’t agree with, solely as a gesture to show how much he supports democracy, period – then this is the outcome. BEWDIFUL.
Lesson for politicians: be very very careful what you do with donations from Sir Bob.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:01 am
When crapweasles attack.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:01 am
jafapete
Vote:Bob Jones, having donated $25k and unsure that it went where he was told it was going, threatens to take a key coalition partner of NZ’s governing party to the police a “manufactured story”? What planet are you on? This is potentially huge – and David sums up NZF’s dilemma rather succinctly. Whats the matter – the heat in the kitchen getting a bit much for your precious Helen and followers? She made her bed with Winston and now she has to lie in it.
August 5th, 2008 at 9:02 am
Do it Bob, force the issue!
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Big Bruv, The fraud is an important story, no denying that. But it’s not a story that should command our attention every day for weeks on end. That’s not reporting news, that’s manufacturing it to support a campaign. What’s new today? Jones has written another letter. Woopdy do.
The point here is that it is possible for (1) Peters to be guilty as sin, and (2) powerful interests to be out to eliminate him. I’m fast becoming convinced that both are the case because the way this is rolling out is so obviously choreographed.
Edit, And KIA et al., you’ve been howling about the imminent demise of Peters and the Government for so long now I thought that it might have dawned on you that your hysterical responses are, well, a little hysterical perhaps?
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:11 am
Come on chaps be fair.
Jafapete and Phil don’t want this “manufactured story” upstaging the lefts endless ranting around English’s gaffe.
Apparantly if you just take every 2nd and 5th letter from the transcripts of the English tapes you get a hidden message alluding to Nationals plan to sell the South Island to Australia.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:14 am
Sir Robert Jones is still living in the 20th century. We have moved on over the past eight years. Nowadays we have a politicised police force and no matter how righteous Bob’s complaint is, if it doesn’t get agreement from the 9th floor, it will be going nowhere.
Vote:Sir Robert; Accept it. Get over it. Get on with it. The chlitorati have you beaten.
August 5th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Meanwhile, in other news the deputy-leader of the National Party kicks off his next leadership bid by claiming John Key hasn’t a clue how the economy works…
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:23 am
Hehe that’s great jafapete.
Those “powerful interests” have “commanded” y”our attention for weeks on end” with an “obviously choreographed” “campaign” to “eliminate” peters.
Wow now I’m more scared of these covert powerful interests that can command my attention for weeks on end than I am about your government ripping people off by the very means they accused others of.
You’ll be embarrassed by the shit you write later in life.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:23 am
I really cannot think of anything more stupid than pissing off Robert Jones. Peters needs to do some fast back pedalling.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:24 am
Toms
“by claiming John Key hasn’t a clue how the economy works”
It has not stopped Cullen has it, Cullen has no bloody idea and has squandered the best economic climate in living memory.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:26 am
jafapete
The government will likely last the distance to early November so that’s hardly howling about imminent demise. At that point Labour and Peters will be history. Its only another 3 months. This story really has got you lefties wound up and worried.
Tauhei
Vote:“chlitorati” – hehe that’s priceless!
August 5th, 2008 at 9:26 am
And after the break we bring you the story of how nine years of a Labour led government has provided empirical proof that they have no fucking idea how the economy works.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:27 am
If the donation was solicited on the basis that it was going to NZF and it’s gone somewhere else, then that would prima facie be fraud, and those responsible could very well be prosecuted.
However, if they’ve filed false election expenses returns they get away with it, because the limitation for prosecution for this will have long since passed.
It is the political, rather than legal, ramifications that I would suggest NZF should be most worried about.
And, yes, Toms, I too was amused by Bill English’s apparent lact of respect for John Key’s (or Don Brash’s) understaning of economics.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:27 am
KiwiInAmerica, the heat is indeed getting to Clark. I was polled last night by UMR on behalf of the Labour Party. After the usual leading questions about John Key … “do you think he’s a bit slippery?”, and similar, came questions on whether I’d been following the Peters donation affair, what I thought of it, and, most importantly, “how do you think Helen Clark has handled the matter?”
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:31 am
Wycroft, so Labour are push polling eh?
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:36 am
Sir Bob – May the (police) Force be with you!
As for manufactured hysteria, you don’t get any more manufactured than the approach H1 took to get rid of an honest and dedicated police commissioner with ethics as well as training in management skills. What’s sauce for the gander must surely be sauce for the goose!
An FullYou, I told you a little while ago, it’s time for your tablets, you know how you get without medication!!
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:36 am
Yep, have been for ages… last night was variations on “slippery” “indecisive” “flip-flops” “only says what people want to hear” “has a hidden agenda” – pretty desperate really.
But it was very interesting to see they’d begun including questions on the Peters matter, and that it was the public’s impression of Clark’s handling of the matter personally that they were after.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:38 am
Sir Bob previously said he was thinking about an ad compain to breach the EFA to show how stupid the law was. If he doesn’t get some answers soon I’m hoping for a few nice adverts featuring Winnie and words beginning with ‘H’ and ‘L’
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:38 am
Danyl (8:31am) – I’m fund-raising for our glorious Labour/NZ First politicians, so they can help keep those evil tory bastards from gaining power…just make out your cheque to “3-coil trust” please.
Thanking you in advance.
PS “Checks” not accepted.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:42 am
If you door knock for charity but get them to make the cheque out to your brother’s trust, then you would be in trouble
If I did it I’d be in trouble, if a group of lawyers did it I’m pretty sure they’d be okay.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Hagues, those words would be what?
Hopeless and Loony?
Hilarious and Leech?
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Wycroft I was thinking about going for the Grand slam home run of Hypocrite and Liar. Winnie wouldn’t dear sue as he’d have to prove he wasn’t.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:03 am
oh ..!..i thought you were talking about english..!
as in ‘hapless and loose’..
and as for the ‘h’ word..?
national..?..
“hypocrites and lying’..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:05 am
“However, if they’ve filed false election expenses returns they get away with it, because the limitation for prosecution for this will have long since passed.”
Toad, that will give the BB the wriggle room she needs to sack him. He will have acted illegally, notwithstanding and stature of limitations. All far too late of course. What a pity this didn’t all come out nine months months ago, when the EFB furore was in full swing.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Joker, “Jafapete and Phil don’t want this “manufactured story” upstaging the lefts endless ranting around English’s gaffe.”
You won’t find me ranting about English’s taping. That politicians are arrogant is hardly news either, and it applies on both sides. I’m not even sure that English subsequently meant to imply that Key can’t get his head around WfF. It’s not that difficult — Brownlie could probably manage it with a little coaching — and I reckon that, given his previous occupation, Key wouldn’t find it much of a challenge.
Can we have some serious discussion about issues that matter, please, even if they are boring?
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Pass the popcorn please.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:11 am
philu, why do you write like that? (xyz… abc… etc…) It’s like a blend of Urdu and epilepsy. Do you take lots of Ritalin?
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:20 am
A memo to Winston and The NZPOODLES First Party: DON’T MESS WITH SIR BOB JONES it ain’t a great idea ask Rod Vaughn…..
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:23 am
wycroft..why do you wear those horrible/tacky clothes you do..?
..and that haircut..?
(yes..!..touch your hair..!..)
see what i mean..?
(but seriously..
..i am on a campaign to ‘do-away’ with the effete/despised by
any fan of ‘strong punctuation’.. comma..
the .. pisses all over it..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Ouch, that was truly spooky!
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:31 am
example:..
“here comes bill, loose-lips flapping”
and
“here comes bill..loose-lips flapping”
see what i mean..?
q.e.d..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Sorry, I must be too thick to comprehend. That was really my point, so much of what you write appears to be in a code I can’t crack.
Oh, I see you added to your post … post the dig at my haircut! I now understand slightly better.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:39 am
“..Sorry, I must be too thick to comprehend..”
in your own words..eh..?
oh well..!
can i suggest a return to picture-books..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:40 am
and about that haircut..?..
..isn’t it ‘past time’..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:40 am
The cops will probably assign the case to the police woman whom Bob had a run in with several years ago.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Suggest what ever you like. It’s a free country, sort of.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:45 am
And yet another thread gets turned into a philu attention seeking wankfest. Will wonders never cease. All we need now is Philip John to quote some statistics of the 90s and to bang on about Unionism …
Come on PJ! Don’t keep us waiting! I’m sure there’s a way you can tie this to National!
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:50 am
What the hell is philu going on about?
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Sorry Pascal, and others, that was actually largely my fault that the thread got derailed. I got annoyed at philu and had the first dig at him over those bloody full points he fills his comments with. He can make me out to be stupid all he likes, but I’ll say again, I find it very hard to decipher a lot of what he writes.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Give phil a chance – its time for his eleven o’clock bong
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Wycroft “Sorry, I must be too thick to comprehend”
LabourMustBeLiquidated “What the hell is philu going on about?”
I think this is Philu’s code for …puff….puff…..pass…. he needs to keep repeating and repeating the code so he doesn’t forget
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Wycroft, I am more guilty of that than most – so take my bitching with a grain of salt, please. I’m just annoyed at the nigh on incomprehensible crap he sprouts, disguised as something intelligent with ellipses. (Those are the dots you sprinkle through your posts, philu)
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:07 am
“but I’ll say again, I find it very hard to decipher a lot of what he writes.”
Wycroft, you are missing very little in fact I would say that being unable to understand the incoherent ramblings of a stoned dole bludging slacker is truly a blessing and in no way makes you thick.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Stoned he may be, but he’s either got ESP or he knows me and sees me regularly – because I really do need a haircut.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:13 am
“ellipses’ is too fey..
(it’s the sort of word the likes of ron mark..or that scarf-wearing-natty would use..
i prefer double-dot..or ‘double d’..
it’s more ‘street’..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:15 am
and don’t forget about doing something about your wardrobe..
..your letting yourself down..
..phil(whoar.co.nz)
oh..!..it’s e.s.p..!
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:16 am
“i prefer double-dot..or ‘double d’..
it’s more ’street’..”
phil(whoar.co.nz)
I am glad you enjoy things being more ‘street’ Phil because hopefully, if National tighten the rules around benefits, that is where wasters like you will be living.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:18 am
now..what was that about that 11 am joint..?
..see you later..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:19 am
philu (11:15am) – a bit of a flip-flop requiring the full conservative traditional socially-conformist punctuation in e.s.p./ESP…eh?…not so much of a rebel afterall!
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:21 am
There you go, mystery solved – he’s hiding in your wardrobe.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:26 am
No, now I know it’s ESP, i.e. a lucky guess on the hair. I wouldn’t say I dress well, rather that it would be hard for anyone to make those statements of my clobber – dark suit, conservative shirt, conservative tie, proper English shoes. He may not like them, but it’s also hard to critique in the manner he has. I tend to be very neatly turned out, thank you phil.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Wycroft
Don’t mind FillYou
He’s had a problem for a long time now and needs regular medication to appear almost normal. I’ve tried to get him to take his pills a few times this morning but he keeps running fromblog to blog, and it’s rather hard to catch him. Next time I get infront of him I think I’ll have to throw the straight jacket on him for a few hours till the medication clicks in – so I might need a hand.
Now folks, back to the main event.
Vote:If Sir Bob lodges an information with the police an I right in believing they have to investigate it? (i.e. unlike the SFO they can’t pick and choose what they investigate.)
August 5th, 2008 at 11:30 am
“..a bit of a flip-flop requiring the full socially-conformist punctuation in e.s.p..”
there is no comma in e.s.p..
..all i am doing..is banishing the comma..doing away with the false-ego trip of the capital letter..(Mr..!..what insecurity-driven bullshit is that..?)
..and most importantly..
..letting words/phrases breathe…
..it’s a simple ‘code’..
(just trying to do my bit for the cause of effective/efficient evolution of language/communication..
i can multi-task..!.
.y’know..!..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:35 am
“..I tend to be very neatly turned out, thank you phil..”
sorta/kinda ‘buttoned-down’ there.?
..eh wycroft..?
..that’s what i was talking about..
..you are letting yourself down..
..by adapting that office-uniform..
..and on weekends/holidays..?
..still buttoned-down..?
..clothes don’t so much ‘maketh the man’…
..as ‘show the personality’.
..and you prefer cats over dogs..
..dogs are too anarchic for your tastes..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:38 am
gee..!..strings..
..has anyone ever told you your attempts at humour..are very ‘laboured’..
..not that quick on your feet..?..eh..?
..never mind..we all can’t be good at..something..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Hilarious, I’m very fond of dogs, and don’t really care for cats, and not just because I’m allergic to them. You’re proving to be a poor psychological profiler phil.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Thats very shallow of you Phil, judging people by their appearance.
How do you feel when you see a black person?
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:46 am
hey phil now i know why you spend so much time on farrars blog – nobody reads yours!
I really hope the SIS keeps an eye on you… you sound disturbingly like a fruitcake I looked after in prison once.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:47 am
dammit you guys are obsessed
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:55 am
“..You’re proving to be a poor psychological profiler phil…”
damn..!..there’s that reality-tv show idea down the gurgler..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:57 am
“..Joker (27) Add karma Subtract karma +0 Says:
August 5th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Thats very shallow of you Phil, judging people by their appearance…”
i..i’m..deeply shallow..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Sadly I doubt the police will want to hear about a complaint like
“I donated some money to him and now he won’t tell me what it was used for…”
…as they are probably pretty busy already with murders, rapes, assaults and drunk drivers.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Wycroft – the only useful thing about pullu’s comments, are that they are double spaced and full of …… . This makes them easy to identify and skim past without reading.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
awww..!!..siobhan..i thought we had an ‘understanding’..
(but you won’t read this..anyway..
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
RRM:
Sadly you are probably right. There’s been a remarkable lack of prosecutions regarding dubious electoral activities when the offender in question is a member of the current government.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Perhaps, those of you seeing this as a “manufactured story” don’t realise what the story is. It’s no longer simply “the fraud” as jafapete casually refers to it above. It’s about behaviour, and the suitability for office of Peters and his foul-mouthed bully boys, and the propriety of an MP using coterie of tight-lipped lawyers he uses as a shield from proper scrutiny when it suits him.
Perhaps journalists, former party officials, former staff members like myself, MPs from other parties and many others who, when we’ve raised “the fraud” have been abused in the vilest terms, told to resign, had it implied we were gay or were child molesters, who were threatened both publicly and privately have decided, independently, that these thugs have to go.
Perhaps if Winston had confined himself to claiming we had it wrong, and provided a single shred of evidence to suggest that that were so, we would have simply said what we know and left it at that. That was certainly my intention. But then I had a salutary lesson in what he’s become since I knew him, and the kinds of people with whom he’s surrounded himself.
And I realised it’s about more than “the fraud”. It’s about whether NZ can afford a malign, destructive influence at the heart of government. It can’t – it damages democracy. I think a whole raft of people have arrived at the same conclusion.
Winston’s always created his own enemies by attacking them first. This time he’s lashed out at everyone, including a man kind enough to donate him some money even though he disagreed with his policies. As a result, when he says “everyone’s out to get me”, for once he’s right. It’s called karma.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Rex:
Well said. It’s definitely called karma – and you’ve got positive karma from me.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
One thing that pisses me off is the short time statute of limitations regarding election issues Yet another case of the bastards protecting them selves
IMHO there should be no time limit or at least 7 to 10 years to allow for cases to be uncovered.
These snide bastards dont want the truth to come out. More of the dont do a s we do do as we say crapola.
Mind you its wont matter if there was a long time limit Howie the PMs favourite Commissioner would just sit on the file until the time limit past. Talk about the best money can buy.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Jones should make his complaint to the S.F.O. like the police they can prioritise and procrastinate but unlike the Police they can walk into Peter’s Brother’s Office without warrant or notice and demand to inspect the books and require answers to questions.I.M.O the Police wouldn’t have sufficient to get a search warrant from a Judge to inspect the books and if the Peters Bros and NZ First Officials said nothing then No. Case.
Vote:August 6th, 2008 at 2:13 am
It would be good to see Bob Jones press the issue. Winston should feel the full force of the law. More satisfactory is if Winston gets booted out of parliament at the election. That would result in more priceless pictures from election night TV coverage, along with Hels sucking lemons in ignominious defeat.
Vote: