Who dun it?
August 7th, 2008 at 9:22 am by David FarrarThere is a great deal of interest in the person who made the secret tape recordings. They claim to be not a member of a political party, but they are obviously an extremely dedicated anti-National activist to have done the following:
- Trespassed at a private function
- Lied about being a party member to MPs (he claimed he had joined Young Nationals)
- Lied about his beliefs (claimed to support nuclear ships etc)
- Asked leading questions to MPs with the deliberate intention of getting them to say something he could use against them
- Used the fact he was pretending to be a party member to try and entrap MPs, knowing they will give more sympathetic responses to a viewpoint from someone who is a volunteer for a party, than if they were a random member of the public
- Had wired himself up with a hidden tape recorder
- Knew enough about the media to then know who best to give them to
They incidentially am almost certainly a reader of this blog, because in the transcript with Bill talking about WFF, he refers to Lockwood’s spreadsheets. Now I recently blogged about how five years ago or so I worked with Lockwood on some tax and benefit modelling, and that is the only mention in recent times of those – so they are obviously an avid reader who remembers such minor details.
As I said, I am not entirely surprised that someone would do this one day – in fact had been predicting this. Somewhat sad though. I have had many candid conversations with Labour MPs, Greens MP, other activists over the years and could cause all sorts of nastiness if I was the sort to tape them. I do hope this does not start a trend.
Garth George pulls no punches:
Politics in New Zealand, despicable as it has been for decades, has reached a new low with the secret taping of private conversations at last weekend’s National Party conference.
And what I want to know is what sort of scumbag would do such a thing, then spill his or her guts to the media.
The Herald editorial also weighs in:
Whoever has released recorded conversations with unwitting National MPs at the cocktail function at their party’s annual conference last weekend probably believes the ruse serves a public interest. The country now knows, if it did not before, that National has compromised some of its policy desires for the sake of its electoral prospects.
Oh yes this is a well kept secret – known only to three million people. Never before has a political party compromised on policy desires. I mean we didn’t see a Labour Cabinet pass a resolution to steal over a million dollars a year from the taxpayer in state funding of their party operations, and then weeks later rescind it as it looked to damage their electoral prospects.
As revelations go, these are rather less remarkable than the method by which they were obtained. Discreet recording is done but not commonly published by ethical news organisations for two reasons.
First, it is not fair to release a reporter’s tape or transcript unless the subject denies something plainly said or the recording could serve a public interest somewhat more compelling than partisan politics. Second, the publication would damage the gathering of further information. Once bitten, a public figure is twice shy.
Nothing revealed from National’s conference sneak so far offers insights to its intentions that could not have been obtained by a journalist trusted to use a private conversation responsibly.
When you consider the nature of the setup – an imposter pretending to be a right wing party member trying to get National MPs to agree with him, it is remarkable nothing more damaging was said. MPs get bombarded at conferences with policy ideas from members, and often say stuff like “Yeah that is not a bad idea, and we can look at that one day, but not immediately”. You don’t tend to tell someone you think is a hard working volunteer for your party that their ideas are whacko and they should eff off.
If National’s conference mole was working for the Labour Party, as National supposes, it is a new dimension to desperate politics in this country, and readily copied. All parties will know how easily opponents could plant an observer in their conferences capable of circulating at the tea break and engaging leading figures in candid discussion of sensitive issues.
I am sure Helen Clark did not tell anyone to go out and do this. That is ludicrous of course. But whoever did it, was motivated by a desire to help Labour retain power, and it will be very interestign if the identity emerges to see what links are there.
The Labour Party appears convinced Mr Key has more drastic economic policies in mind than he will admit before the election. Would that it were so. The more safely Mr Key is playing the game at present, the more genuine his caution seems. And Mr English is even less daring. He led National back to centrist conservatism after the defeat of the Shipley Government and he would keep it there for the time being.
Anyone who thinks a Key/English leadership is going to suddenly in office sell everything in sight, is basically barking. As the Herald notes, some of us do wish they would be a bit bolder in some areas!
Related posts:
- Final secret tape due today or tomorrow
- If Bill had been Winston
- The secret Key tried to bury
- The OpenLabourNZ conference
August 7th, 2008 at 9:32 am
Do his tapes have an authorisation statement and what party is paying for them out of their election budget as its clearly an attempt to pursuade voters.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 9:35 am
Soper on Paul Holmes this morning said he had a name but that the person in question was not associated with the Labor party. we can only wait and see who it is. i hope if named the person will enjoy their five minutes of fame in the public spotlight.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Somebody who reads this blog eh? Who is pro-Labour?
Sonic, Tane, Philu, perhaps it is time for you to fess up now in an attempt to retain some shred of credibility before you are exposed for the bottom feeding eels that you are?
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Thats funny, I don’t recall seeing any moral outrage when you were crowing about Mike Williams being secretly taped at the Labour Party conference DPF.
[DPF: As far as I know no one trespassed, lied and used false pretences to get that recording. And he was speaking to 400 people and responding to a question from a Labour Party National Council member - not a planted question which was only asked to try and entrap people.
But it is no surprise Tom S can not see the difference, That would require minimum ethical standards]
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 9:44 am
Of course you didn’t, you guys have made it clear that only ‘other people” are accountable so suck it up when the same rules bite you in the ass.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 9:47 am
haha pushmepullu – i was gonna say.. roger or philu?
would philu have the class to get into such a function?
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Michael Bassett is having a damn good lash at “the strandard” and Clinton Smith on Leighton Smiths programme. He pulls no punches but also says National need to pull their heads out of their butts and oust this person and it could be done by lunch time today!!
Vote:Sounds to me like someone at “the stranded” may well be the one and of course leading straight back to the 9th floor.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:50 am
According to Dr Micheal Bassett the scum at the Standard and Clinton Smith (aka Steve Pierson) in particular are right at the heart of this.
Of course should that be true (and I suspect it is) then that means the ninth floor had knowledge of what was going to happen and indeed they would have been involved in the planning.
This could end up being our very own Watergate.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 9:53 am
“Whoever has released recorded conversations with unwitting National MPs at the cocktail function at their party’s annual conference last weekend probably believes the ruse serves a public interest…..”
The socialists are all the same. Of course Stalin thought everything he was doing was “in the public interest”, too, including having one in twenty of his own population spying on and doing tape recordings of the rest.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 9:54 am
This is dicey ground. When Willimams was caught out, he was endorsing breaking the law as it stands. Does it stand that it was ‘correct,’ to expose this? I’d argue yes. to that.
Vote:These latest situations are a conversations made in private, in which no one endorsed breaking the law, or issued anything defamatory. Like when John Tamihere was given a few drinks and ‘exposed’ by Wishart. Subsequently ruining his political career, and all he’d worked to achieve. Or when Hager used ‘stolen’ emails to topple Brash – all fair game it appears, in a parnoid politico-world.
If we are going to blanket state that we can publish anything ‘in the public interest’ where do we stop? Who decides the ‘public interest’? Are we all self-appointed moral policemen. Or are we little better than snitches,
Should we encourage little snoops to go around and ‘out’ clandestine gay politicians? Or espose people for internet pecadilloes?
It seems tht in modern NZ this is all fair game, as well as going through garbage, hiring private eyes etc.
It seems that NZ politics is a wonderful profession to get into if you have the body of a grown-up and the emotional maturity of an eleven-year old snoop.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Anyone check out the Standard and assorted hangers on attacking Bill Ralstons blog yesterday?
I posted the identity of 5 of the 9 commenter s as associates of The Standard but for some reason it never made it into the comments.
Last time I’ll ever comment on a Stuff blog.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 9:55 am
John Key’s interview with Mike Hoskings last night on Closeup was very revealing.
Not for the quality of the interview, Mike was ranting like a hyperactive schoolgirl
But for the cool and collected way John Key was handling the pressure.
Be afraid Helen, be very afraid.
He did not get angry or flustered, but retained his calm demeanor to answer the questions.
It was very impressive, and just the sort of skills we need in a PM
Compare this with the blustering, prima donna behaviour of Peter’s when under fire in
Vote:recent weeks, it makes for a very interesting comparison.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Talking of Michael Bassett:
TV3 and the Snooper Scoopers 06/08/2008 By Michael Bassett
TV3 AND ELECTION JOURNALISM
“Last time the Exclusive Brethren became the centre of attention during the election campaign. The media tracked down a group of prosperous-looking, religiously-inclined businessmen who had had the temerity to distribute election leaflets asking pertinent questions of the Greens and others. Like the “reef fish” that David Lange used to excoriate, journalists then set off chasing the messenger rather than investigating the leaflets’ messages. This election the story is neatly reversed. Duncan Garner of TV3 has a sleuth who infiltrated the National Party’s conference with a recording device in hand. With the morals of an elderly uninvited funeral goer he/she helped themselves to the wine and savories while snuggling alongside private conversations at a private function, recording without permission some comments and probably splicing them to “sex up” the story. They were then transmitted to Garner for broadcasting to the nation. This time it’s the message we are invited to get exercised about, not the messenger. TV3 hasn’t revealed their snoopers’ identities. They must protect their sources, they’ll tell you. Do you sniff a rat in all this? Are the journalists who chased the authors of the 2005 pamphlets the same people who are now covering the tracks of the eavesdroppers in 2008? Is the intended beneficiary of this double standard the Labour Party? You’d better believe it. Duncan Garner is acting like he’s on Labour’s payroll.
First a preliminary about this new style of campaigning that is taking place. A small group of weirdos with a Berlin Wall mentality are associated with a website “Scoop”. For some time now they’ve invited themselves to functions where they bug people and take photos without permission. A book of mine was launched in Wellington on the evening of 9 June. Someone who later identified himself as Kevin List insinuated himself into the room, took photos of those present, and put them on “Scoop”. Accompanying them was a left-wing diatribe from that ex Listener hack, Gordon Campbell. List went further. He recorded an inarticulate rave about the launch. “Scoop”, it transpires, is also involved with Duncan Garner’s story. Snooping Scoopers have become TV3’s new news gatherers.
Leaving aside the morality of what TV3 has been up to, did they invest profitably? Let’s examine the so-called “revelations” that Dear Duncan has provided for us. We now have the full text of what Bill English was recorded as saying. He is alleged to have “dissed” his leader, and is purported to have indicated that he intended selling Kiwibank. The text of English’s comments doesn’t support the first accusation, and while he suggested that National might “eventually” sell Kiwibank, he was in no hurry, and thought it was “working”. Where’s the beef? What is Dear Duncan trying to tell us? If Kiwibank were to fall over – which seems unlikely – would he want the government to hang it around the taxpayers’ necks permanently like a dead albatross?
With Dear Duncan’s second so-called “revelation” about Lockwood Smith that he told us in sepulchral tones was “damaging” to National, and in case we hadn’t heard him the first time, repeated it twice more, the accusations were even more feeble. All that could be gathered from Lockwood Smith’s comments to a friend is that there are only some aspects of National policy that will be highlighted during the campaign, and some that won’t be. Well, well, well. Since when has that been a revelation? Labour didn’t tell us before 2002 and 2005 that they intended to back an anti-smacking bill, and that they were intent on destroying the value of the shares held by mums and pops by breaking Telecom into three, and by preventing a Canadian bid for Auckland Airport. Lots of things aren’t mentioned in campaigns. The notion that a government can do only what it has promised on the hustings, and nothing more, reveals a level of naivety that is inconsistent with a serious reporter.
TV3 appears to have transgressed big time. According to the Herald the Broadcasting Standards Authority has banned the broadcasting of private conversations. Duncan Garner, it seems, didn’t know that. He relied on scurrilous methods that serious journalists despise. Gate-crashing private functions while snooping about with a recorder taping private conversations without first asking permission, is disgraceful conduct in anyone’s book. I hope someone has the guts to complain to the Broadcasting Standards Authority. But for TV3 to come away from this immoral activity with nothing worthy of recounting makes them look foolish. Why were these non-stories the lead items on TV3 News? Were they paid for? Does the producer have no shame?
And what, I wonder, does our Ninth Floor Nanny in the Beehive know about the activities of the Snooper Scoopers who are clearly working for Labour? If this carries on then TV3 will have to list itself with the Electoral Commission as a Labour supporter for the purposes of the Electoral Finance Act.”
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 9:58 am
democracymum (172) +0 Says:
August 7th, 2008 at 9:55 am
“John Key’s interview with Mike Hoskings last night on Closeup was very revealing.
Not for the quality of the interview, Mike was ranting like a hyperactive schoolgirl
But for the cool and collected way John Key was handling the pressure.”
Mike Hosking: straight out of the Stalinist Lapdog school of media, backing up any breach of human rights committed against the political opponents of his Dear Leader……
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 9:58 am
“..# pushmepullu (333) Add karma Subtract karma +1 Says:
August 7th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Somebody who reads this blog eh? Who is pro-Labour?
Sonic, Tane, Philu, perhaps it is time for you to fess up now in an attempt to retain some shred of credibility before you are exposed for the bottom feeding eels that you are?..”
i wouldn’t be able to sneak in..(undercover..)
..i look too much like george clooney..
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:01 am
The comparisons are being made to the recording of Mike Williams by way of defending the actions of this individual. The 2 incidences cannot be compared.
How some on the left can relate a public utterance to a room of 400 delegates in response to a question from one of those delegates, (a public utterance that was encouraging the new EFA to be breached), to a covert fishing expedition to engage a politician in discussion under false pretences, lead the discussion to certain areas and record the discussion indicate the lack of a moral compass which would have prevented this recording to be made in the first instance.
There will be those in the Labour party that should be shitting bricks over this escalation. As DPF has said, there are a number of political commentators who are guided by a superior set of values who are in possession of information that was not intended for the ears of the general public.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:03 am
LeeC:
“……Like when John Tamihere was given a few drinks and ‘exposed’ by Wishart. Subsequently ruining his political career, and all he’d worked to achieve.”
I wouldn’t call it “exposed”, Wishart would have agreed with everything Tamihere said and would have been hoping to advance his career. Didn’t Tamihere get onto the radar in “preferred PM” polls on the back of it?
Quite a few of us would like to see J.T. do great things in NZ politics in the future.
I suggest, too, that anyone holding that Maori seat for Labour would have lost it to Pita Sharples, and that the Wishart interview had nothing to do with it.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:04 am
DPF:
What happens if the person was actually a member of the Young Nats? Presumably all the claims about trespass, false pretenses, etc must fall away – they would then have a legitimate right to be there…
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:06 am
SlightlyRighty:
“…..There will be those in the Labour party that should be shitting bricks over this escalation. As DPF has said, there are a number of political commentators who are guided by a superior set of values who are in possession of information that was not intended for the ears of the general public……”
You said it, SlightlyR. And DPF said it, too.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:10 am
but ..big ups..!..to whoever it is who has shown the rest of us..
..what nationals’ real (privatising..etc..) plans are..
..(i dunno about you..but i’m suffering from whistle-blower-envy’ here..
..i would loove to have been that person..)
and can we just do away with (textor-inspired) thread two of the counter-attack..?
..the faux moral-outrage at the action of taping/recording..
..(getouttahere..!..)
..if you have a set of moral scales..
…and on the one side you put the ‘secret’ recording of english/the smiths..speaking the truth..(for once..)
..against the ‘secret’ agenda of national/key..
..to fuck the rest of us/the country over..?
..again..?
..well..!
eh..?
it’s as silly a faux-counterclaim..as ‘the emails were stolen!’ cries..
..used when they/you were hagered/hollow-menned..
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:11 am
Excuse me: this is from yesterday’s thread. Has nobody noticed it?
Paul (1103) +2 Says:
August 6th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
“Found images of the source of the leak. Got to the security footage first and these are revealing.”
http://concernedoflinwood.wordpress.com/2008/08/06/secret-footage-revealed/
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:18 am
# deanknight (77) Add karma Subtract karma +0 Says:
August 7th, 2008 at 10:04 am
DPF:
What happens if the person was actually a member of the Young Nats? Presumably all the claims about trespass, false pretenses, etc must fall away – they would then have a legitimate right to be there…
They may well of been a young nat member, but if they were only a member so they could get into this function to make these recordings, then their membership of the young nats isn’t really valid is it? Its like saying the police are drug dealers because they go undercover to join gangs & sell drugs
I look forward to names being released today & Duncan Garner slamming those who made these recordings & insinuating that the idea to make them came from someone high up in one of the left leaning parties or affiliates.
I would suggest that the person that did this was linked to NZ First & Winston, but I don’t think anyone under the age of 70 supports him, unless it was one of his staffers?
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:22 am
philu: your hysterical accusations of a secret agenda don’t become any more true just because you use more punctuation than the rest of us. They are fantasies, nobody believes you in any way shape or form. It makes no logical sense, you have no evidence, it is in short exceptionally unlikely.
IIRC, you were previously predicting that America would never elect a black man. Is that still your prediction? Is that the quality of analysis we should expect on average from you?
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Phul
One can only hope and pray that there is a secret agenda to “fuck over” each and every dole and benefit bludger.
Be afraid….be VERY afraid.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Of course secret recordings must be dodgy simply because they are secret. People love to learn others secrets, and to eavesdrop on their neighbours.
Unfortunately the content of these recordings was somewhat boring and along party lines. If this is all national have to offer, I might have to vote act.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Hey listen Paul, phool is entitled ok. he’s entitled to sit on his ass at home while we pay him to get stoned and hes entitled to more punctuation than everyone else as well!
BB I find you comment harsh.
Yet fair.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:30 am
“.. As DPF has said, there are a number of political commentators who are guided by a superior set of values who are in possession of information that was not intended for the ears of the general public..”
oh..!..really..!
..the (acceptable) gate-keepers..eh..?
..some of them bought/paid-off as cheaply as feding them some piss/food on a reasonably regular basis..
..others get much more..
..and in this blogging world..
..we have farrar as the (acceptable) gate-keeper for the tweedle-dum. party.
…and we have russel brown as the acceptable) gate-keeper for the tweedle-dee party..
..and your revelations..that they ..
..”. are guided by a superior set of values who are in possession of information that was not intended for the ears of the general public..”
fills me with the same level of disquiet/(disgust?) that i feel at all those ‘insiders’/commentators..
..who knew that the ads by that ex-newsreader ‘trout’..reassuring mum n’ dad investors..
..that their savings/money were ‘safe in any weather’..
..that they all knew this was a load of bullshit..and that that/(those) companies were doomed to fail..
..sweeping away those savings of those mums n’ dads..
..yet tey said/did nothing..
..and what compounds that disgust at their deriliction of their basic ‘duties’/responsibilities..
..is how since these finance companies have fallen over..
these ‘experts’/commentators..have been falling over themselves/each other..
..in their haste to tell us how long they have ‘known’ this would happen..
..the moral morass they are buried in..
..is the same as these ‘insiders’/commentators/acceptable gatekeepers..
..who just feed at the trough..
..and don’t do what they should be doing..
..warning us mug-punters of how these people are fucking/planning to fuck..us over..
..and the indictable evidence for this comes with the sub-prime crisis now engulfing us..
..at whoar..i have been trying to warn about this since late 2006..
..whereas our acceptable gatekeepers..and m.s.m..
..were about a year behind the play..
..now..that same information i was reporting was available to them..
..but..y’see..not scaring the horses/us mug-punters..
..is just part of the ‘deal’..
..for those acceptable gate-keepers/feeders at the trough..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:30 am
So if the double Standard was behind this, that means the taxpayer has paid for this!? I’ll have my money back please!
and yes democracy mum – I though Mike Hosking was a raving bull interviewing John Key last night too. He loudly and rudely interrupted almost every sentence before it was completed, which must have been very frustrating for John Key but he maintained his cool and manners. I know which one I respect.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Philu, unless you can provide better evidence than your supposed resemblance to famous leftist apologist and marijuana user George Clooney to show that you weren’t the one, perhaps you should think about hiring a lawyer.
John Key is known to be a big fan of the government of Singapore, where among other sensible practices the opposition socialist’s scurrilous attempts to gain power through slander and theft are frequently taken to court.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Wired themselves up with hidden tape recorder.?
TV3 showed how you can just use a cell phone. Plus there are many tiny dictaphones still available which can be in a shirt pocket.
Was it me ??
Im not saying
Its not tresspass until they are asked to leave.
Anyway if there werent lies and secrets to be revealed it would just be windy politicians who we hear all the time
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:42 am
stayathomemum (10:30am) – doesn’t Mike Hosking look a bit “fluffy” to be likened to a raving bull?
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:45 am
FillMe
Now Hey! I told you to take your tablet didn’t I? You were doing really well earlier and then at 10:10 am you had to blow it again! Do be a good boy. We all know you like to have Nanny tell you what to do, but she’s a bit busy now so it will have to be Uncle Strings that looks after you!
Now please, the package says to take the medication every two hours. Clearly you did take the 8 am dose, and just as clearly you missed the 10 am one. If you go take it now we can be on an 11, 1, 3, 5,7 ,9 11 and bed regime for the rest of today.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 11:03 am
One of the best things to come out of all of this is Nick Smith’s comment mentioned at the end of the Stuff.co.nz article on John Key’s rubbish
Vote:“In hindsight Dr Smith realised the man could not have been a Young Nat – he was too “hip”.
priceless
August 7th, 2008 at 11:06 am
FFS Pushmepullu
Vote:just when I thought you couldnt get any weirder
Phil is a solo parent on the DPB
do you really think he would fly to Wellington to tape a few National MPs
August 7th, 2008 at 11:09 am
PaulL:”IIRC, you were previously predicting that America would never elect a black man. Is that still your prediction? Is that the quality of analysis we should expect on average from you?”
Just by the way, if Obama loses, the cringers will say it “proves” that the US is “still racist”, as if lack of experience, lack of substance, and a lifetime of unsavoury associations count for nothing. But I have always said, and it needs to be emphasised, that a Black Conservative Republican candidate will be a shoo-in, one day…….
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Phil, I had high hopes for Alan Keyes, but apparently he has left the Republican party, to my dismay. He would have made a great first black American President.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Socialists and their media lackeys are desperate thugs who will do whatever it takes to retain power. NZ and the Nationals need to stop fooling themselves and come to understand the almost total amorality of the people who are mainstream Labour Party.
The Labour Party and Left Media are the enemies of Liberty and will combine forces to impose their collectivist will upon New Zealand. This is an important battle in regards to NZ’s future, and it will not be won by weakness.
The Nationals need to become more strategic, more combative, and act in full understanding that the reality is, they have few friends in NZ’s mainstream media, who pose as objective commentators, and can even get off side with their political masters now and again, but in the end and in reality are just a propaganda front for the Labour Party.
With no real workable policies, the Labour party has one plan, and that is to use its media lackies to assault the moral authority of John Key (and or National) and change the poll figures. The Nats must come up with a serious counter to this strategy.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 11:26 am
i think they’ve already picked one..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Th biggest porky is Helen knew nothing about this. Nothing happens in the Labour Party without Helen Clark’s knowledge. Plausible deniability my foot. But really Bill English ran round around like a chook with no head. He could have faced it down instead we got a groveling apology. I am less impressed with that.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Jeez This is how it went down Mikey W called up one of the Brown Shirts ( yeh yeh yeh get all excited Godwins law wankers) and said Get a PI to go to the Nats conference and tape those bastards Heres list of things to say and ask.
Of course it cant be traced back to the Socialists but it has Socilaists written all over it
Desparate times call for desparate measures CFrazy must be almost at breaking point now. Wont take much more to pop her. H2 most be working overtime along with the other girls to keep her from poping
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Helen Clark should understand that there is a difference between a private conversation among the party faithful and a discussion with the greater media. Within any organisation, political, business or otherwise, there are things said that are for those within the organisation and those outside the organisation.
Did labour publicly discuss the buyback of NZ rail? Was it discussed in Caucus and would differing opinions have been offered.
What of the introduction of a bill that banned parents from smacking their children, (apart from H1 stating that she was opposed to such a bill) and would this have been discussed in Caucus? What would have been said in those rooms. I would bet that there are a number of Labour members who would privately oppose these measures and would have stated so. Of course there is no recorder in those rooms as this would prevent debate and a free frank discussion of ideas.
That is why this recording, and the manner in which was obtained, is so serious. It removes the freedom to discuss ideas and policies in private, to help shape them publicly, because you don’t know who is listening and to what end.
The covert recording of your political opponents, even if you have no “public” knowledge of it, could be damning.
Ask Nixon.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 11:42 am
And the arsehole needs to be named and shamed and exposed and the connection to the Socialists identified
There will be one make no mistake
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Baiter, I think the strategy for National does not require ‘coming up with’ per se since it is bloody obvious. National needs to state a clear policy platform
Yes we will privatise the railroads
Yes we will end kiwisaver
Yes we will slash the bureaucracy, end working for families
Yes we will restore military ties with the USA
Yes we will allow parents to raise their kids as they see fit
Yes we will end appropriation of private land by Maori radical groups
Yes we will restore a proper honours system
Yes we will prevent terrorists from entering New Zealand
No we won’t allow political correctness to flourish
No we won’t allow the unemployed to be coddled
No we won’t reward criminal behaviour
No we won’t enter a coalition with any party except ACT
All of the above will send a strong message to the people of New Zealand that National are strong. Right now the only thing holding them back in the polls is their refusal to send the clear message. The people of New Zealand want NZ rail to be sold, they want kiwibank to be gone and working for families too, they want student loans to have interest on them. They are lookign around for a party who will do this and there is only one… ACT. But ACT’s small size deters many. If National were to stand up for clear policies that New Zealanders want, they would reap the benefit in votes. All they have to do is make the right decision and we could see twenty-five years of unbroken National party rule.
It’d also be nice if they would commit to an investigative tribunal to try members of the Labour government for treason and corruption. But I realise that doing so would warn them to flee the country before the election, so these plans must be kept hush-hush for now… but if they were leaked they would cause a massive surge in the polls. The people of New Zealand are not fools, they want justice, and they know they will not get it until the dictator Clark is hangign from a gallows outside Parliament.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
>I am sure Helen Clark did not tell anyone to go out and do this. That is ludicrous of course.
Didn’t stop Cullen and King (and maybe others?) from using the bugged conversations for political purposes. They could have condemned the bugging. So, in my mind, they’re at least guilty after the fact… like someone who receives stolen property.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Privatising the railways would be a disaster. For me I mean- we’ve only just cashed our shares in Toll and are banking the wonderful gift from Dear Dr Cullen. Selling the railways would bring in far less than they cost, and that kind of expense would hit the NZ$’s value, and that would hurt me.
Or were you thinking of the nation’s interests, pushmepullyou?
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Grant, I always have the interests of the nation at heart. Unlike some of the chocolate-coated strawberries ‘running’ our country.
Selling them would indeed get less than the retarded price paid but even less will be got after a year of inefficient state ownership. Although state ownership will be less inefficient under National than Labour it will still run down the value of the company.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
“The people of New Zealand want NZ rail to be sold”
Pushme – wrong! Colmar Brunton found that A CLEAR MAJORITY (68%) of New Zealanders support the buy-back, and less than a quarter (24%) disapprove.
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425825/1924432
But I agree National do need to be a bit louder and prouder about what they stand for (other than for being elected to power!)
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
big bruv:
August 7th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Phul
One can only hope and pray that there is a secret agenda to “fuck over” each and every dole and benefit bludger.
Be afraid….be VERY afraid.
Big Bruv, You get my vote for Nationals Minister of Welfare!
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
“The people of New Zealand want NZ rail to be sold”
Pushme – wrong! Colmar Brunton found that A CLEAR MAJORITY (68%) of New Zealanders support the buy-back, and less than a quarter (24%) disapprove.
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425825/1924432
But I agree National do need to be a bit louder and prouder about what they stand for (other than for being elected to power!)
(Apologies if this is a duplicate post!)
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
If National want some publicity for their welfare policies they could do worse than choosing Philu as a starting point. Haul him in front of the cameras shine some much needed light itno the disgusting corners of his life, rinse off the filth and dish out some justice to him. Watching the weed-smoking moron languish in jail at the tender mercy of hardened criminals who have nothing but contempt for his type would be a stern lesson to all thsoe who feel they can subsist by stealing from the public that they gravy days courtesy of Dear Leader Helen Davis are over
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Philbest thank you for your remarks re JT – I agree upon reflection – Also for the Bassett quote.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Mattyroo
Might be a bot difficult as I resigned from the party the same day John Key agreed to let Clark off the hook over the anti smacking legislation.
Now if you want to nominate me as ACT’s minister of Welfare well thats a different story altogether.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
It is less important to me the nitty gritty of the rights or wrongs of this situation, it has dented my confidence in National that either they have insufficient dicipline or do have a hidden agenda. Whilst it will not lose my electorate vote for National tactically the party vote must go to ACT.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
“One can only hope and pray that there is a secret agenda to “fuck over” each and every dole and benefit bludger.”
I agree 100%: bludgers, loafers, parasites and home-bakers should be busted without mercy.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
“..t’d also be nice if they would commit to an investigative tribunal to try members of the Labour government for treason and corruption. But I realise that doing so would warn them to flee the country before the election, so these plans must be kept hush-hush for now… but if they were leaked they would cause a massive surge in the polls. The people of New Zealand are not fools, they want justice, and they know they will not get it until the dictator Clark is hangign from a gallows outside Parliament..”
pushmewankyou is really ‘barking’..
eh..?
..a real table-biter..
..running on fevered fascist fantasies..
the others are just the usual gibbering gibbons..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
rolla_fxgt suggests:
You’re forgetting the generous payroll of off-site “staff” Winston maintains, paid for at our expense, and whose job descriptions are somewhat, shall we say, fluid…
Although Tommy Gear wasn’t on the Parliamentary payroll when I was there, I’m sure Parliamentary Services were called upon to pay for all sorts of contractors, like the three Maori gentlemen who occasionally arrived in the dead of night, complete with dark sunglasses, and used some quite sophisticated equipment to “sweep the office for bugs”.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
(Yes we will restore military ties with the USA.)
And follow Power’s suggestion that where the yank military is our
lads should be there ?
I agree with you, Key should grow a pair and state that a NZ Bat. will
Vote:be on it’s way to Iraq by lunchtime the day following the election.
August 7th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
grumpyoldhori, if you really mean that, bloody good on you. But do vote ACT next time, won’t you, they’re the only party that has got that particular “pair”.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
I think John Key is playing the smart game. The last election with Don Brash was one of the most disappointing days of my considerably longish life(politically). Everyone thought that Helen was finished and that we would have a Government that actually wanted the country to prosper and not tell us all what we can and cannot do.
As we know this did not happen.
It is vital that John does not alienate the sectors that Helen has turned into welfare recipients (WWF) which she of course knows would vote for her if National fiddled too much with the money dished out. I think that National will govern for quite a period of time if they can just get in and send the rest of the sad lot out to pasture where they belong.
Phil-watching your posts always amuses me as I cannot honestly get the jist of what your points are half the time. Will keep trying tho. Always like to hear the other side of the argument.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
The disgusting thing about this storm in a teacup is the way Labour leaders are trying to make points out of reasonable statements. We all know that individual MPs have personal thoughts on various subjects and at a cocktail party one would expect them to either tell them or as David suggests humour the cukkoo hard working supporter. There is no hidden agenda simply various ideas of indivual MPs which they mistakenly thought was safe to express .. they got caught by a scumbag and the media isn’t far behind him.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Dear Garth “seriously irrelevant old git” george
“And what I want to know is what sort of scumbag would do such a thing”
Can I put my hand up. If I was there I’d do it, and I applaud anyone who reveals such stuff. Public information is public information.
National and the right all harp on ad nauseam about choice and how the individual must have choice, well choice needs to be built on trust of the truth. National is being disingenuous and selective about what we are able to choose. Tossers.
“I think John Key is playing the smart game” On what planet is this the smart game?
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Big bruv
“secret agenda to “fuck over” each and every dole and benefit bludger”
Mate we on the left would kindly and with all due respect, as you to stand over against that wall…
Nice to see this blog is such a happy place again and we all live with respect and care for each other.
Wanker
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
This is nuts – I dont care who did this. What I care about is the reponse that it is getting, which is just nutty. Surely for the formation of sound policy, good robust debate is imperative. I am thrilled that the National MPs are not all coming from a “scripted” “disciplined” approach, where they all think and say the exact same thing. A little discent and difference in approach is good if not critical to a sound outcome. It shows that they are able to pull together in the same direction but consider various points of view and modify and polish as they go along. Anyone who is dumb enough to think that this is evidence of a “secret agenda” is just desperate. But hey desperation seems to be the order of the day for our current government……….
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Just saw Goff on TV news. Absolutely pathetic, photos of dogs…I’m so pleased I don’t have to defend such behavior. What a Cabbage.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Don’t worry, I secretly recorded what you really thought, with my mega neo-con shape shifting lizard(TM) brain scanner. It has been recorded into a top-secret mega-parallel ultra-computer that requires webbed fingers to operate.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Paul: ““And what I want to know is what sort of scumbag would do such a thing”
Can I put my hand up. If I was there I’d do it, and I applaud anyone who reveals such stuff. Public information is public information.”
Yeah but you wouldnt do it to Labour, so you can just go ahead and stuff your indignant high-horsery up your arse.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Dork
yes I would do it to labour. Mind you I don’t need to do it to Labour, we know what their policies are. I’d do it to anyone who was being a two faces – how do you put it – indignant high horsed bastard.
What did English want Mike Williams to do after being caught saying things in private and the opposite in public – resign, will that hat fit now?
Anyway, more pics have come to light. I don’t know, I just can’t see English and Lockjaw taping themselves, it must have been someone else?
http://concernedoflinwood.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/the-hunt-continues/
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
a3catlady
Close to a decade in opposition, you would have thought a couple of months out from an election we’d know what their policies are, not robust debate and discussion this close, and that was not robust debate.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Paul, Dork +++
Vote:We never knew Labours policies. Labour never told New Zealand it was doing away with the Privy Council, it never told NZ it was going to silence opposition to the government with the EFA, it never told NZ it was going to ban smacking children. I could go on because there are many more examples, but if there is any government that has ever not told us what it’s policies are, it is this current Labour-led one, and that is why the people of NZ feel so betrayed.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Paul
Are you suggesting that there is nothing wrong with dole bludgers just as long as the scum vote for dear corrupt leader?
And please, bring on the insults, whenever I am abused by a low life self confessed socialists I wear it as a badge of honour.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Paul, what are Labour’s policies or are they going to continue with the failed ideology of the last nine years.
Surely dear corrupt leader is not going to campaign on her past record.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
How’s the picture of Mrs Ruth Richardson and Jenny Shipley on the piano, right next to Maggie Thatcher I’d guess.
Those bloody dole bludgers, such a great life on the dole. Everyone should live on $150 a week, it’s a jam man.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Paul
Really, If your so fucken happy with the last nine years then why are you still “Concerned” of Linwood ?
(think about it dickhead)
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Tell those bludgers to get a fucking job then Paul and while you are at it take your bleeding heart with you.
If you were not such a moron you would realise that the bludgers are the ones who actually stealing money from the few genuine cases of people in need, I personally think that what we pay the FEW real sickness and invalids beneficiaries is a disgrace the trouble is it is wankers like you and Sue Bradford who think that every fucking low life in this country has a god given right to CHOOSE not to work.
What you refuse to admit is that if we managed to get rid of all the blugers then there would be a lot more that we could do for the few genuine cases, there are not that many Kiwi’s who would be against that.
Take our very own bludger Phul as an example, he gives the very few genuine recipents of the DPB a bad name.
You however seem to think that we should all feel sorry for the vast majority who just cannot be bothered working, the reason for your sympathy is that you know that each and every one of these low life scum vote for deal corrupt leader.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
By jingo’s, why all the gas bagging. English is an egg but didn’t really say anything juicy. TV3 are just pinning their colours to the Labour mast, we all know they stood there anyway! Relax…everything is going the right way and Labour are slitting their own throats. It’s only a matter of time folks till polling day.
By the way Paul, fuck off!
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Also there is a point Guyon Espinor(I actually don’t mind him too much unlike some other righties and vastly prefer him to Duncan Garner) made on TV One news that nobody seems to have picked up on is that the venue (Wellington Town Hall) is refusing to release the security tapes.
Vote:Why the hell are they doing that?
I can’t think of any reason apart from that they have had the hard word put on them from someone high up.
If it turns out the tapes get mysteriously taped over I know where I’ll be pointing the finger
August 7th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
The last thing WCC want to do is get involved in this. And I doubt any security firm would release their video monitor tapes to anyone but the Police.
And unless an actual crime has been committed, I assume the Police won’t be investigating…?
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
RRM, according to I think the Herald it’s apparently a crime under the Crimes Act to tape someone without permission when the circumstances indicate permission should be sought.
I think that covers it and I look forward to the offenders being prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Re: the tapes: would the WCC release the tapes to a customer that hired their venue, if say a commercial company had a conference and it was infiltrated and recorded by a competitor who then used it to their commercial advantage?
Of course they would and they’d be full of apologies too, even if it wasn’t directly their fault.
As emmess says, if they have already somehow “lost” the tapes, there’s little doubt what’s going on.
You have to think though, it’s so friggin amateurish, so poorly conceived and executed, the trail so clearly laid out, and with so little alternative explanation other than the Liarbore Yoof what did it, that such is precisely what happened. They were young. And they should be prosecuted.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
National tonight released a letter from the council’s chief executive, Garry Poole, who said: “I can advise that no security camera footage of the cocktail function exists.” (Stuff.co.nz)
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
As one of the 600,000 members of Kiwibank, and a founder member at that, I applaud whoever outed Bill English…..
Vote:I only wish someone had managed to infiltrate the gathering of the Exclusive Brethren a couple of weeks ago when the ‘Elect Vessel’, aka Bruce Hales, was here on another of his secret visits…… While John Key has made it clear he wants no dealings with these nutters, I wouldn’t be too sure about Bill English and Lockwood Smith…..
August 7th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
“If your so fucken happy with the last nine years then why are you still “Concerned” of Linwood”
Genius, think about it. It’s a piss take of the pseudonym that people use when they write into the newspaper, and I’m writing a blog. Come on is it that hard?
It’s my old stomping ground, it’s white trash working class folk, whom are partial to the old chat over the garden fence about politics, it’s a blog about politics, 2 + 2 in your case seems to add up to some sort of conspiracy theory. Not too hard to work out. Why is this place called Kiwiblog, has stuff all to do with your average Kiwi? (and yes I am being facetious)
Tell the truth, the last decade has been the best years of my life. I don’t have Jenny Shipley asking people to look over fences to see if people are sleeping in their right bed (it happened remember), I’ve built a house in a very conservative area, had 2 kids, established my business and become distinctly middle class while holding onto socialist ideals, all the while watching the country reject nasty right wing ideologies. Love it baby.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Here is a link
Vote:http://stuff.co.nz/4647357a11.html
So is that normal?
Were there cameras that were not filming then or were there just no cameras in that area that the function was held?
August 7th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Paul
“Tell the truth, the last decade has been the best years of my life. I don’t have Jenny Shipley asking people to look over fences to see if people are sleeping in their right bed (it happened remember), I’ve built a house in a very conservative area, had 2 kids, established my business and become distinctly middle class while holding onto socialist ideals, all the while watching the country reject nasty right wing ideologies. Love it baby.”
You should be very proud of yourself Paul.
Vote:I know people milking the DPB, the dole, and If they do ever have to pay tax from suposed self employment I was told the trick is to go to the doctor and say “if the IRD make me pay this I will kill my self from the depresion”,”works every time”
Its these festering sores that encourage narking on your bludging neighbors.
Now its the bludging neighbors peering over my fence to see if I’m smacking my kids, cause they just done a state funded parenting coarse and the gummint says I am evil
Oh glory to great leader for shining the light on our evil right wing ways and paving the path to socialist utopian bliss.
August 8th, 2008 at 12:12 am
“I know people milking the DPB, the dole, and If they do ever have to pay tax”….
You move in elevated circles, shunda!
Vote:August 8th, 2008 at 12:14 am
Yes Sireee
Vote:August 8th, 2008 at 12:41 am
Thanks emmess
I’ve been given exclusive party pics from that evening, i can see what they mean, the bugger is just downright tardy.
http://concernedoflinwood.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/the-hunt-continues-2/
Vote:August 8th, 2008 at 12:45 am
Shunda
So the right want to paint all on the dole as bludgers, and you wonder why we don’t like you guys.
Funny, how many company executives are currently being investigated for fraud, does that make all company executives thieving bastards?
No no shock horror, don’t talk so ill of the glorious leaders of industry.
Vote:August 8th, 2008 at 12:52 am
Actually Paul, I think they are as bad as each other , a blatant disregard for how their actions affect other people.
Vote:But our current govt is medling more in our lives than any other and not dealing with these crooks, rich or poor.
August 8th, 2008 at 1:08 am
“If National’s conference mole was working for the Labour Party, as National supposes, it is a new dimension to desperate politics in this country, and readily copied. All parties will know how easily opponents could plant an observer in their conferences capable of circulating at the tea break and engaging leading figures in candid discussion of sensitive issues.”
So? Pollies will just learn to be more guarded at conferences.
Selling Kiwibank is a bit like nuclear ships. We all know that National would love to let them in, but not enough to renounce government over. So they say they support the nuclear ban until they think they will be able to get away with it.
Same with Kiwibank, the Nats hate the fact that we have a kiwi-owned bank keeping mortgage rates low for the hoi-polloi and preventing banks from making the mega-profits that their National voting shareholders believe they deserve. But its not something they hate enough to lose an election over. So selling Kiwibank will be left for the 2nd term and not mentioned one way or another in leading up to that election.
The only thing this taper really revealed was how mindboggling incoherent, simplistic and downright uninformed our pollies are. But did anyone ever doubt it?
Vote:August 8th, 2008 at 3:16 am
I’m sure who every did the taping will get caught. The story has a sense about it causing massive blowback for Labour.
Nothing is going to stop National becoming the Government in three months.
Time for change.
Vote:August 8th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Not 100% sure yet but this is starting to sound dodgy, with the change of story
From http://www.3news.co.nz/WellingtonCityCouncildeniesmistakeregardingCCTVfootage/tabid/419/articleID/66189/Default.aspx?ArticleID=66189
The Wellington City Council denies it has been caught on the hop thinking there was CCTV footage of a National Party cocktail conference when there was none.
The Council has written to the party admitting there is no footage of the event in the Town Hall where a young man secretly recorded MPs discussing sensitive policies.
National had hoped the security cameras in the foyer area would help spring the culprit who posed as a member of the party’s youth wing.
The council initially said security footage is not normally given out – except to police – but now it has admitted that in fact there was no footage of the event in question.
Vote:Council spokesman Richard McClean says providing video security is not really part of the deal.