Clark starts nasty
It’s good having Hooton blogging, because he often covers something before I do, so I can be lazy and quote him:
Tonight’s TVNZ and TV3 news coverage of the first day of campaigning was a clear win for John Key, with the networks showing the National leader attempting to cross the traditional political divide (which positions him as a unifier) by going to the Otara market, in contrast to their coverage of Helen Clark’s efforts to smear him and play class war (positioning her as a hater and wrecker). TVNZ highlighted Clark’s claim that Key’s day campaigning in South Auckland was “a tribute to his power of self-delusion” while TV3’s preferred quote from her was “I suspect he was a bit like a tourist there. He should have stuck to what he really believes and gone to the Northern Club.” What a nasty piece of work she came across as. This is not the way to win an election.
A nasty piece of work indeed. Imagine a National Prime Minister telling a Labour Opposition Leader to fuck off out of Remuera because he/she doesn’t fit in, and should stick to Cannons Creek or something. Cheap, and nasty indeed.
But as Matthew points out, we are usefully being tutored on the difference between negative and dirty:
Already, of course, the Prime Minister’s Office is saying that what Clark did today was “negative” but not “dirty”. A nice attempt to try to spin the situation - but still, after one day, I would say it is Key 1 Clark 0.
The part I found most amusing from the linked post is this part:
While we’re on the topic, when Helen Clark said ‘hard hats on’ to Labour supporters, contrary to what the commentariat seem to think, that did not mean ’get ready for a dirty campaign’. It meant ‘get ready to work hard’.
How incredible. They know what the Prime Minister meant by her comments. Is this mind reading at work?
September 14th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
What I took from the coverage was Key talking about what matters to people and Clark being interested in her self preservation of position.
And her airbrushed photo
September 14th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Who’s teeth has she got this time ?
September 14th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Mathew Hootsman and David Farrar complaining about ‘nasty politics?
Have they forgotten their Helen Clark=Robert Mugebe claims?
[DPF: Matthew had nothing to do with the FSC campaign, and you misrepresent it. I have never compared Clark to Mugabe. I have done a billboard showing Mugabe praising Clark's Electoral Finance Act as a step towards silencing dissent. As the Electoral Commission has confirmed the "chilling effect" of the EFA I feel I was justified in pointing out how bad it is]
September 14th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
“I have never compared Clark to Mugabe”
No you just put up a billboard with a fake quote saying that he was a big supporter of her?
Really David, pull the other one eh?
Thats what I love about the right, they love to dish it out the slurs and smears, but turn into whiny children when anyone points it out.
[DPF: If Helen keeps passing anti-democratic laws that have a "chilling effect" on participation in our democracy, I'll keep pointing out what she is doing in strong terms. If she stops, then I'll stop. Very easy.]
September 14th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Clark exudes so much malignancy that I would not let her in my avaries for a nature/cuddly photo op for fear that the hens would stop laying and the cocks would peck her eyes out. My birds are not especially politically inclined, but damm, they have some fine and useful instincts. Ditto the dog.
September 14th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
“Self delusion” Yeah right Miss Klark! sonic my observations of her mental state over the last few months have clarified her ever-deteriorating presentation. It can be fairly argued that her psychiatric diagnosis is now clearly established to be that of a delusional syndrome.
September 14th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
sonic………. We all thought you had died. clearly tossing the salad for clark and co has not resulted in your death by poisoning as suspected by many of us.
September 14th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
“..It can be fairly argued that her psychiatric diagnosis is now clearly established to be that of a delusional syndrome..”
no d4j..that is you..!
you are looking in the mirror..
..eh..?
..phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Great to see DPF that in your first Las Vegas post that slander of politicians partners is still allow. That must mean that John Keys wife is also not of limits,.
but hey HC is being nasty to poor old slippery, ou dear how sad.
[DPF: I made no references to anyone partner in my post. If you have a comment you wish to complain about then you can e-mail me the details and I will investigate. I do not read more than a fraction of all the comments made here]
September 14th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
For goodness sake Sonic, grow up. I think it’s time people stopped smearing “the right” as some all pervasive entity who all behave in a heavily stereotyped manner. Many, infact most of those on the right are very good at taking the smears and slurs. As David is himself. Infact notice that the response of Hooton and David on “the right” has been to criticise Clark’s ‘negative’ comments, as opposed to attacking her personally. Try to pay attention to when people differentiate between the message and the person.
September 14th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
D4J. Nice to see the drival hasn’t slowed.
September 14th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
I don’t need to “smear” the right as nasty and indulging in personal attacks, just read the comments above Theodore.
Someone who runs a blog that tolerates this level of bile and slander in it’s comments can complaining about “nasty” politics with a straight face is laughable.
[DPF: Sonic thinks the Prime Minister should operate at the same level as blog commenters. How strange. ]
September 14th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
phool once agains fires up the mighty and sophisticated logic of “it takes one to know one”
September 14th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Look like the attack drone’s have been dusted off and fired up, presumably with a bit of Labour campaign cash
September 14th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Disagree with us and you must be secretly getting funded by the Labour Party?
Of course that is not “nasty politics” nothing is when you guys are doing it eh?
[DPF: Once again Sonic shows himself to miss the point. Blog commenters on all sides says pretty rough and nasty things about MPs they do not like. Hell John Key gets roundly abused here most days by various commentators.
The issue, as you keep failing to grasp this, is that the Prime Minister, should operate at a higher level than anonymous blog commenters. But you seem to think she should not.]
September 14th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Out on parole again Sonic?
September 14th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
All we need is rogered gomer pyle and we have Helloons’ army at the ready steady.
September 14th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Disagree with us and you must be a criminal out on parole?
Thank goodness for the lack of “nasty politics” round here is all I can say!
September 14th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
I think we need to be fair here. Clark said this election is all about TRUST. So in that regards she is correct. The only problem for her is that she will discover fewer and fewer trust her! Goodbye Helen!
September 14th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Helen doesn’t seem to understand that the anger and scowl gets nowhere. Just remember Ronald Reagan and look at John McCain spreading their message with smiles.
I can’t understand Labor’s artificial anger and Clark’s regal attitude.
I cannot understand people who get really excited with Helen. She is so cold and gloomy except perhaps when looking at a painting or a ballet dancer.
She doesn’t understand real New Zealand, John Key does.
September 14th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
sonic! welcome back! look forward to your comments heading towards the election.
especially where you have to try and defend Winston.
cause we all know the left is infallible and would never admit a mistake or any wrong doing
September 14th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Clark like some others on the left like to pigeon hole people so to her South Auckland = poor = Labour.
Some people might be poor because of Labour. But income isn’t necessarily indicative of voting preference and those on low incomes have most to gain from economic growth.
September 14th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Well shit Sonic you haven’t been here for awhile so one has to assume that you’ve had your privileges revoked.
September 14th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
John Keys: Smiles and tells the truth, dishes very little negative dirt.
Helen Clark: frowns and grits though clenched teeth that she is to be trusted, and pours forth bile.
Clark is like the old story of the third generation farmer, she inherited a robust economy and is going to deliver to the Nation an economy with it’s wheels falling off. Here’s hoping that there is enough momentum that the next government will get out of they way and people who actually work can kick start things again.
September 14th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Sonic …. would appreciate your take on the JK smear on the Progressives website. Ooooooops sorry, you only blog on supposed National smears. Isn’t that called h*p*c*i*y. But then I guess you know all about that and all.
September 14th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Clark could not even announce the election date without bringing nasty into it. It reminds us again that she meant it in 1990 when, according to Michael Bassett, she said at the last cabinet meeting of the outgoing Labour govt that she was prepared to be as vicious as necessary to regain power.
Key needs to call her on this and he can take a lesson from Sarah Palin on how to do it. An offhand remark is all it would take.
September 14th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
I’ll say it again… this is going to be the longest eight weeks of my life
September 14th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
“..John Keys: Smiles and tells the truth..”
brilliant..!
“..Key needs to call her on this and he can take a lesson from Sarah Palin on how to do it…”
double brilliant..!
cos’..cos’..key is our palin..!
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
If Clark wants to see into her own future, she could do no worse than observe the melt down of the US democratic party. She is heading for the same fate. She WILL try to bribe students with a huge loan write off because she’s too dim to see any tactic. Watch the backlash sink her once and for all.
September 14th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
You know Phil every time you post a comment God kills a kitten. How many more have to die?
September 14th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Somewhere a Wikipedia page lies waiting to be savaged:
link-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Key
Come on Phil. It’s addictive.
You know you want to!
[DPF: It wasn't Phil who did the editing last time - check the original post out]
September 14th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
heh..!
phil(whoar.co.nz
September 14th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Sorry Sonic, i was a little worried that as soon as I defended the majority of “the right” as not nasty a few would show me up on it.
Of course if you are going to accuse people of being hypocrites you have to have an even clearer conscience. And some people do make nasty comments, they do not gain any respect from doing so. Public figures, all of them, not just politicians must live up to a higher standard than the rest of us.
September 14th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Labour are scum and so is Helen KKKlarKKK.
She is a nasty piece of work and probably the most successfully evil woman in NZ history.
The fact that 30% will vote labour anyway shows how many numpties we live among.
September 14th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Ironic really that Clark and Labour seem to think they have some special claim to certain sectors of the population. A day will come when disadvantaged people will realise that they will remain in that position for life because of the Labour Party’s desire to manipulate the sense of “them and us” so that they can utilise the fear they induce in certain groups to pervert the course of democracy. You rule by fear and lies-shame on you Helen, shame on you with your multiple homes and wealth, to condemn countless gullible people to a life of poverty and suffering. And as for Cullen-I hear he is intending to retire to his new home and will be quite comfortable because of his investment portfolio. Investment which were made in Capitalist institutions-OH THE IRONY!!!!
September 14th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
doing a bit of howling at the moon there..cj..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
On the Clark=Mugabe meme, and having been in Zimbabwe, I wish to know what the declaration of ‘no-go’ areas for the opposition means other than to attempt to prevent the free exchange of ideas?
September 14th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
DPF said >> “The part I found most amusing from the linked post is this part:
While we’re on the topic, when Helen Clark said ‘hard hats on’ to Labour supporters, contrary to what the commentariat seem to think, that did not mean ’get ready for a dirty campaign’. It meant ‘get ready to work hard’.
How incredible. They know what the Prime Minister meant by her comments. Is this mind reading at work?”
Of course the standard knows what Hulun is thinking, they’ll have Mike Williams there on detention and he would certainly have a had a piece of Huluns mind recently.
Oh how I will laugh when Hulun loses Mt Albert.
September 14th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Whoa …Adolf. The US Democrats aren’t sunk yet. Bribing students is not a politically stupid tactic. It works. Students are just that … still studying. No genius, wisdom or experience required by and large. Clark has so many people depending on and anticipating her largesse, that flinging about taxpayers dollars in their direction, may well be her salvation., again.
September 14th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Philu-not only do I howl I bite too…also cock my leg in contempt on anything red beginning with “Lab” and ending with “our”
September 14th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Shorter David Farrar
Me and my chums can throw around any nasty smear. I’ll even link to toxic blog like Whale Oil to give me fans the real red meat of hatred they want.
But if Helen Clark makes a comment about John Key, I will cry out in phony-baloney outrage!
I was going to ask who you thought you were fooling with that transparent nonsense David, then I remembered the intellectual level of some of your commentators.
September 14th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Sonic, see you at the Otara markets, or would you rather sip a latte and discuss marxism whilst flicking through a copy of new idea?
September 14th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
The Abridged Sonic:
“No, you nasty poopy wee-wee head to infinity times a billion! So there!”
September 14th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
You make my blood boil sonic!!!
September 14th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Ah Sonic…taking sophistry to a higher level…welcome back!
September 14th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Craig – he he he.
Imagine if you will, Sonic rises at the socialist collective flat. Switches on LabourFM, makes a latte with his froth stick, enjoys a light breakfast of cocopops and prepares for another productive day in society. yuk yuk yuk.
September 14th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
manymany things make your ‘blood boil’..eh d4j..?
it’s a long list..eh..?
and some days are just longer than others..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Its the end of times sonics back, liarbor evil has returned,GAG
September 14th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
him and nome have been resting up for the election..at the collective-resort..
and i have been sorta holding the fort..for the last little while..
..i welcome the sharing of the load..
..the bullshit is coming thick and fast..
..it’s almost too much for just one person..
(ahem..!..i did say ‘almost’..
..as you all know..it’s like/as easy as..pushing over bowling-pins..)
..so..head for the shelters/hills..!..righties..!
..incoming..!..
..eh..?
..phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Incoming nonsense.
Havent seen Hulun rushing to support her constituents in View Road with getting the scumbag Salt family evicted.
I suppose grass roots politics is a bit term-before-last for Laybore.
September 14th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
NZF at 1.8%
Nats at 53% + ACT looking at 3 seats. Key at 40%. Clark down.
Looks like cutting Peters loose wasn’t the fuck up some people thought!
September 14th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
I still find it a shame that ACT is polling so low. Considering the great work they have done in parliament over these last few weeks they really should be higher – even at 5% one would wish (as indicated in the NZ herald online poll).
September 14th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
“..Somewhere a Wikipedia page lies waiting to be savaged:
link-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Key
Come on Phil. It’s addictive.
You know you want to!
[DPF: It wasn't Phil who did the editing last time - check the original post out]..”
thanks for clearing that up..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Just wait until the leaders debates when Rodney kicks all those associated with this govt all around the floor. Then the average punter will see a real alternative.
September 14th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Roll up folk and watch “This Is Your Life”, featuring phool whore and a big bag of buds.
September 14th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
“..i welcome the sharing of the load..”
“..the bullshit is coming thick and fast..”
At last we see some honesty from Phul.
September 14th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
that polling was done at the height of the anti-peters wave/the lynch-mob hysteria..
..when just about everyone was demanding she sack peters..
..we’ve had the backlash since then..
…it’s a long way to go yet darlings..!
tho’ act ‘polling so low’ will be a bummer for them..eh..?..(heh..!..)
..given this polling was done when hide was one of the drivers of that lynch-mob..
..maybe the punters can smell that same stench of anonymous-donor-hypocrisy..
..emanating in waves from the yellow-backed/jacketed one..
..as i can..
..phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
‘Already, of course, the Prime Minister’s Office is saying that what Clark did today was “negative” but not “dirty”. A nice attempt to try to spin the situation – but still, after one day, I would say it is Key 1 Clark 0.’
That is truly interesting, David because – guess what the VDS was running with yesterday?
An article explaining the difference between ‘negative’ and dirty.
What a coincidence that two completely un-related and un-linked entites should be saying exactly the same thing.
What are the chances?
September 14th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Kiwiblog “punters can smell that same stench ” found in a Tinny House everytime the phool whore posts a comment
September 14th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
“..# Hagues (171) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
September 14th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Just wait until the leaders debates when Rodney kicks all those associated with this govt all around the floor. Then the average punter will see a real alternative..”
dream on tiger..!
.eh..?
(thanks for the belly-laugh..!..hagues..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Philu:
*Sigh*
You mean you’re not getting a job anytime soon then?
From what I see on this and other threads, you’re very quick with the ad hominens. And when questions of Wiki-vandalism and P-pushing are raised, you’re equally quick to run screaming to DPF.
September 14th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
did someone fart..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
You Laboured thinking tends to Philu with bullshit! Every political party, including ACT gets donations-how do you think they run, on membership fees??? Even your beloved Helen gets donations. Winston chose to lie-that what was wrong. But Labour doesn’t mind lies do they-in fact they are rather partial to them. So much better then facts…
September 14th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
“..You mean you’re not getting a job anytime soon then?…”
yes..i do have a ‘job’ actually..
i run a little on-line news-site/start-up..
..called whoar.co.nz.
twenty-five new stories/links today..
this just being one of themany ‘must-reads!’…
http://whoar.co.nz/2008/people-in-anchorage-tend-to-think-of-people-from-wasilla-as-toothless-hicksliving-on-dope-and-poached-moosebut-she-came-out-of-nowhere-and-beat-us-like-a-drum/
and i do that every day..seven days a week..
(early starts..(5.00 am..usually..thats so you punters will have a big bunch of juicy news to have with your breakfast..)
..and to date..nearly 20,000 stories/links have been posted..
..for your elucidation/education/information..
..whoar news..!..always first with the best..!
(and..um..!..thanks for asking..!..eh..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
holy shit, phool actually thinks people read his pointless screeds of double full stops
September 14th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
I remember watching Clark on 3 news and thinking “What an utter Bitch!” I’m glad to see I’m not alone in that opinion.
September 14th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
“..And when questions of Wiki-vandalism and P-pushing are raised, you’re equally quick to run screaming to DPF..”
seeing as i have never ever ‘wiki-vandaled’..or never even seen/touched that foul muck ‘p’ in the flesh..
( i am a former heroin/coke-freak..a long time ago..now..who now only smokes pot..)
if i am accused of the former..and (repeatedly) ad hominemed as a ‘p’ cook-user-pusher..
(because these braindead shitheads..like yourself..lack the/any intellectual nous to be able to argue/debate..
..all they can say is..’you’re a ‘p’-pusher’ etc etc..
..pa-thet-ic..!..)
…am i just meant to say nothing..?
..and i went to dpf over the wiki-edit..that is the only time/thing i have spoken to him about..
…cos’ he actually commented on the allegations..seeming to accept them as fact..
..but continue with your lies..eh nosty..
i mean..you are a fucken lawyer..eh..?
..it is what you have trained for..
.shit in..shit out..
..eh..?
..phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Phulu “yes..i do have a ‘job’ actually..
i run a little on-line news-site/start-up..”
Great to hear that you have employment. Please advise WINZ that you no longer need taxpayer support since your “news site” is such a runaway success. Do you get paid per read or per full stop?
September 14th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
If philu gets paid per full stop then he has more money than Owen Glenn. Up in smoke go the dots.
September 14th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
phool if you are on the dole you are supposed to be working full time looking for a job. If you have a full time hobby of pressing the “full stop” and “enter” keys twice all day, then you are making false declarations to the dole office that you are looking for work.
September 14th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
phil – That’s bullshit and you know it. You have a hobby – posting ‘stories’ and you enjoy it. Fine. But it’s not a job. You are a social and economic parasite, devoid of any sense of moral obligation to contribute constructively to the society that supports you. That you feel no shame is grossly insulting to every NZer who pays tax to support your selfish, lazy existence.
Back on topic – I hope Clark keeps up her performance. I overheard a couple of ‘working class’ blokes on the bus on Friday. They both said they’d voted Labour all their lives (one was 60+ and would have been mid 40′s) but they couldn’t stand Clark any more. One was going to vote national, the other was planning to not vote at all. Yay!
September 14th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Reading some of the dribble from the limp (as in weak of mind only) left, I used to get peeved, but then some one made a comment about always skipping Phulu comments. Started doing that recently, so any time I see a post with more that 2 ..s in a row I skip it.
Now I really enjoy reading the comments, ex …s posts
September 14th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Phul
Two things that you should start worrying about;
1. November 8th
2. 18%
Best you get that CV out and start updating it.
September 14th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Klarks nasty lying streaks will cost her dearly in the next polls.
Its really one way traffic now.
September 14th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Philu:
Actually another commenter raised it – I think the name was “DC” from memory. Try harder next time.
September 14th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
I seem to recall I predicted months ago:
Nats 55%
Lab 22%
MP 8%
So you may be lucky commies, you may get a 4% dead cat bounce – or maybe just flattened to 15%.
I wonder how many labour candidates will get voted out of their electorate, it’ll be a sorry collection of list refugees in the minor parties like laybore next year.
September 14th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
“..phil – That’s bullshit and you know it. You have a hobby – posting ’stories’ and you enjoy it..”
yes.. i enjoy it..
..but you show me a more erudite/intelligent/analytical’quality’ news-site/commentary..
..covering local/international ‘issues’
..and i’ll read it..
..eh..?
..’till then..
..whoar..it is..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Philu said: “i run a little on-line news-site/start-up..”
Phil – do you realise that a job normally entails pay? You have no advertising on your site so it is not making you a penny of revenue. The fact is, the state is paying you to do whatever you want and you are not *producing* anything of value (when you produce something of value you receive payment for it).
I am not going to spew vitriol against you but I have to say I do find it quite annoying that you spend so much time on here insulting the readers and (oftentimes) the author of the site while you enjoy a comfortable life at the expense of those self-same people. Don’t you find that a little embarrassing?
Before I left New Zealand I was paying 50.25% tax (10% student loan, 39% tax, 1.25% ACC) AND paying for my own health insurance, just so you could sit at home all day while your child is at school, copying and pasting from other people’s websites. Oh – and for the record, that 50% tax was on an income less than 80,000 dollars. Putting aside student loans and ACC, I was paying 19,350.00 tax. In that time I did not use public health, I did not use public education, I didn’t drive a car (so didn’t use the roads except when on a bus – and my ticket paid for the road use). Why should I pay nearly 20 thousand dollars a year for services I don’t use or want? Why are you sitting at home for the 6 hours your child is at school, doing nothing productive while I work hard every day to pay for you to do that? Don’t you feel embarrassed at all about that?
In the old days, when you received a gift, you wrote a thank you letter – no matter how small the gift. I personally paid your entire income for no reward. The least you could do is write me a thank you letter – instead of coming here and insulting people like me who just want to keep what they earn and build a good life for themselves. If you ask DPF nicely he can contact me and ask for my street address. You might want your child to write a thank you too – you can teach him a good lesson in good manners.
To everyone else – sorry for the rant – I am new(ish).
September 14th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Ross Miller said (at 4.02pm) “Sonic …. would appreciate your take on the JK smear on the Progressives website. ”
Seeing as Sonic hasn’t replied Ross, I’ll do a public service – here’s my thoughts about it:
http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/09/know-thine-enemy-1.html
September 14th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
“..I do find it quite annoying that you spend so much time on here insulting the readers and (oftentimes) the author of the site.”
i come here to argue the arguments ideologies..
..my ad hominems are invariably a case of retaliation..to the ad hominems thrown my way..
..if you don’t like it..
..scroll past..
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
I recall some typically gushy interview with Helen Clark after the 1999 elections in which she claimed that she had learned her lessons from past electoral failure and had determined that in 1999 she was not going to indulge in a negative attack campaign.
She then claimed further that this was the reason for the solid 1999 victory being such a good one in terms of feelings: focusing on the future and offering a vision.
To a certain extent it was bullshit – the easiest election for a left-wing politician to win is one in which they have to do little else but offer to spend more money to fix problems. Seems a long time ago now in every respect.
September 14th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
They are not full stops, but fool stops.
September 14th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
sonic is either one of these people who thinks that Helen Clark can do no wrong, or he just enjoys playing devil’s advocate and seeing people get fired up at him. Or both. Either way he isn’t someone to waste time over. Just like his ideological opposite, Redbaiter.
September 14th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
WraithX
Great post, so many of us have tried to get Phul to see the error of his ways, the sad thing is that he has no shame whatsoever.
The man is a parasite and a low life.
September 14th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
WraithX – yeah, good show buddy.
But sadly, you’d have better luck trying to convince a tapeworm to let go of its hosts intestinal tract.
September 14th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Yes, playing the Nasty Nanny is not working for Dear Leader.
I expect Liarbour support to fall even further as it becomes clearer she is wedded to a corrupt and discredited Peters.
It is too late for her to gain any benefit from sacking Peters now. It would look too cynical and self-serving. She is now stuck with her beloved poodle.
Anyway, http://www.nominister.blogspot.com also has full results and comments on the poll.
September 14th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
How about Radar, and I know this might seem far fetched, I just disagree with you?
I always find it interesting how our “champions of free speech” get so upset when someone uses that right in ways they don’t like.
A quick scan of this comment thread shows yet again where the real nastyness in our politics lie.
Wraith, “Before I left New Zealand”
Nuff said.
September 14th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Sonic
Your point about free speech is interesting, you (and the left) always claim that your smears and blatant lies can be defended on the basis of free speech.
I agree with you, however the left do not seem to believe that the same level of free speech should be extended to their political rivals, why is it that you people think there should be two sets of rules?
September 14th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Got a quote to back any of that up Big Blogger?
Thought not, make it short, make it snappy and make it up (as usual)
September 14th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Sonic probably doesn’t realise how difficult it is for people who are intellegent, capable of following a logical argument, and aquainted with reality , to imagine how he could honestly believe the things he says. Some give him the benefit of the doubt that he’s trolling, which is really a complement since the only alternative is that he’s utterly retarded.
September 14th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Did Aunty Helen win a bingo prize so she can pay you to blog on a Sunday sonic? House of horrors = Liarbour propaganda fools.
September 14th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
There is free speech Sonic, and there is libel and slander. Or are we to accept that it is allowable to label those we do not like with unjustified slurs that many of us, even you Sonic, find abhorent.
Or are you prepared to accept such slurs directed against John Key simply because you feel that he is not one of your people?
And if that is the case Sonic, how far are you prepared to go to malign others not because of who they are, but because of how they think and what they believe?
September 14th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
I hope this is not called thread jacking, but there was a comment of Owen Glenn’s that got me thinking.
He spoke in a jovial manner about how Mike Williams responded when asked what the Labour Party had spent Owen’s donation on. I can understand that a fair bit of piss had been consumed, and that is when the truth comes out; the truth that sober minded gentlemen supress. Apparently Mike Williams, over a beer or three, remarked that we used it to buy KFC for Polynesian voters in South Auckland. Mike was amused by the sight of 250 Polynesians lining up for their free feed of greasy chicken. What a sight!
This remark put the Labour spin machine into overdrive. Treating is the technical term for that sort of thing. I was told that is why politicians of my acquaintance are so hesitant in buying their round. I had originally thought that it was because they just bludgers.
I have mixed with some very wealthy (plus $10mil) people over the past few years. They would not understand the term “treating”. They have never studied anthropology or political science or any other arts subjects at university. They enjoy business and could not achieve their status if they were always dishonest. Dishonesty works until you get found out; it does not work for decades. They all enjoy a brew or two and their comments always turn out to be truthful.
When Owen Glenn says that was what Mike Williams told him I can find no reason whatsoever to disbelieve Owen Glenn. Many a true word has been spoken over a bevy or three.
September 14th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Touch a raw nerve did I Sonic?
Now how about answering the question?
Why is it that you and the left insist on two sets of rules?, as an example we have the Prog Blog (staffed and funded by your mates on the ninth floor) comparing Key with Gary Glitter, you defend that yet you would be the first to recoil in faux outrage if anybody dared bring up the sex life of your dear corrupt leader.
September 14th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Touch a raw nerve did I Sonic?”
Well there is a first time for everything, and you making a decent point would certainly be a first time. However sadly that was not it.
You said “You (and the left) always claim that your smears and blatant lies can be defended on the basis of free speech.”
I asked you to back that up with a quote, where is it?
As for the rest of you, thanks again for proving my point on which side really are the nasty party.
September 14th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
sonic has John Key called people “feral inbreds” or “cancerous”??Get a grip you twisted delusional twitter.
September 14th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Sonic
“As for the rest of you, thanks again for proving my point on which side really are the nasty party”
And Sonic again confirms that comparing John Key with Garry Glitter is perfectly acceptable in the world of the left wing politics.
Now don’t get me wrong Sonic, I would love a dirty election campaign, if that was the way it went then your dear corrupt leader would be lucky to obtain 12% of the vote.
September 14th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Philu:
Bullshit.
The regular Kiwiblog commenters know that is complete and utter bullshit. Your first comment on this thread: ad hominen against D4J. To take another example, I caught you just the other day – unprovoked I might add – spewing bile about me on a thread I hadn’t even commented on. So no “case of retaliation” on that thread.
The truth of the matter is this: you pop up on thread after thread and – unprovoked – launch into ad homimen attacks against people. Sometimes in retaliation, I’ll grant you that, but more often you’re the instigator. That might be your idea of an exciting lifestyle but (and I’ll stick my neck out here) for most other Kiwiblog commenters you’re an offensive troll. DPF has repeatedly told you that your inflammatory style, and incessant trolling, is a major reason why you’re so unpopular here.
As for your claim to have a “job” – I note on that same thread you were actively soliciting funds for your “news service”:
Did you seek DPF’s permission for your “free” advertising? You know, that same DPF who you never apologised to for smearing him, after being sucked in by a fake DPF?
September 14th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
um, what Nomestradamus just said.
September 14th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
nosty..you are a lying/sliming/obesessive/downright ‘weird’/strange-little-man..stalking lawyer..
(i don’t think you’ll find you’ve got much of a ‘public’..eh..?)
and..you deserve all the ad hominems that can be thrown at you..
..just for you breathing..
..there’s a few scumbags here..
..but you really have risen to the top of the sewer..
..eh..?
..a ‘floater’..
..phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
*Sigh*
Is this better or worse than that time you got banned for wishing the end of someone’s marriage?
September 14th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
phool ;take a jar of sleeping pills you drop kick wasted space creep. Stop your crap.
September 14th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
Sonic said: “Wraith, “Before I left New Zealand”
Nuff said.”
Sonic – I am back in New Zealand. I have returned to be with my family and loved ones. I live in Wellington now. furthermore, I left to study at the Royal College of Music in London where I studied toward a post-grad degree (despite never achieving a graduate degree – an exception made for me for which I am truly thankful); I didn’t leave to avoid tax or because I hated the government – I left to follow my dream.
So – if you consider that nasty, may I ask why? Should I not have left? Should I not have returned? I really don’t understand why you are citing my comment in support of your view that the comments here are nasty.
*I came back* – for me that is the important thing. I am (once again) a tax payer. I don’t want to pay 50% tax for services I don’t receive – but that hasn’t stopped me returning. If I have to pay that to be with my 70 year old parents and my wonderful nephews and nieces I will do so – but the fact that I specifically try to avoid being a burden on the state does make me feel that my tax burden could be reduced a little.
Sonic, I have never addressed you here before and my comments have always been fairly moderate, and, I hope, fair minded. It surprises me immensely to read the latest comment and find that I am being used as an example of “nastiness”. I suspect that if you came to dinner at my house, you would find me a very pleasant and friendly person to be around.
You are more than welcome to disregard this comment, but I would be more than happy to cook a meal for you and your wife and have a few glasses of wine over some political debate. Political discussion is forbidden for the well mannered over dinner – but I am coarse and love to get my hands dirty. If you are game, so am I! But let us discuss policy and not polemics.
September 14th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
WraithX – Bit of advice from an ol’ timer: Most posters come here to engage in constructive debate. Sonic comes here too.
September 14th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
“..It surprises me immensely to read the latest comment and find that I am being used as an example of “nastiness”.”
“..You might want your child to write a thank you too -”
(’nuff said..?..)
btw..
are you totally convinced your faecal matter issues no odour..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
“..Most posters come here to engage in constructive debate..”
that’s hilarious..esp coming from stuffed..
..who has only ever ad hominemed..
..nothing more..nothing less..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
philu: I don’t think I was being nasty. Do you not think that you owe a thank you to the people who have made it possible for you to raise your child in the way that you think best? I am not asking you to grovel, to beg, to work for me – I am asking for a thank you for willingly paying the taxes that make this possible for you. And really – your last sentence was unnecessary and you know it. I have especially not insulted you – please don’t insult me.
September 14th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
“..Is this better or worse than that time you got banned for wishing the end of someone’s marriage?..”
hilarious..!
..a few comments ago you are accusing me of wiki-vandalising..and being a ‘p’ cook/pusher/user..
..have i hurt you..?
..you delicate little noxious weed..?
..go and cry in your torts..
..phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Philu:
This thread is entitled “Clark starts nasty” – so I’m sure Phil(u)seless won’t mind me linking to this comment to show what nasty really means:
Of course Philu would explain it this way: “..my ad hominems are invariably a case of retaliation..to the ad hominems thrown my way.. “.
I’ll leave it to other Kiwiblog commenters to judge who – as between Philu and me – is the nastiest of them all.
Edit: Philu claims “..a few comments ago you are accusing me of wiki-vandalising..and being a ‘p’ cook/pusher/user..“. Others can scroll up to see if I accused him of those things. In fact I didn’t.
September 14th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
getstaffed: I agree – the reason I read this blog every day is that I find that the comments are very often fair. Sometimes there is some foul abuse hurled around, but I can skip that. One thing that I do think is a shame, is that there doesn’t seem to be a meeting place on the net in NZ where people of both left and right, authoritarian and libertarian, can come together and just talk about the issues. It always has to end up with hate – why? I can go to a party hosted by a “left-winger” and have a good time discussing politics – why is that so hard on the internet? This seems to me to be a gap in the “market”.
September 14th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Winz and the taxpayer via all sorts of bizines start / edu schemes will be paying for philus website and ‘career’ as a ‘blogger’. Its his way of avoiding work.
Meanwhile the earning classes take holidays offshore, I’ll try to send a post or two from sardinia if i can be arsed (most likely not though).
sonic, well, a twerpy little closet dweller.
September 14th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Just to clarify that:
Philu claims “..a few comments ago you are accusing me of wiki-vandalising..and being a ‘p’ cook/pusher/user..“. Others can scroll up to what I actually said: “And when questions of Wiki-vandalism and P-pushing are raised, you’re equally quick to run screaming to DPF.”
Outrageous – but typical from Philu. I wasn’t making any such accusations. My point was rather that Philu is happy to dish out, and when others dish it back, he runs screaming to DPF. But such subtlety is probably lost on a drug-fucked wreck.
September 14th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
wraith..you aren’t gonna like this..
..but i have known you such a short time..
..and already..i am convinced you are one of the most boring self-obsessed/self-congratulatory/smug people..ever..
..that’s apart from being an arrogant/pretentious twat..eh..?
demanding your ‘inferiors’..kiss your arse in gratitude..?
and you aren’t ‘insulting’ anyone..?
demanding my son write you a thank you letter..?
..fuck off..!
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
..sunshine..!
September 14th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
WraithX
Some time ago someone made the following comment on kiwiblog:
The following was my response and it still stands – particularly when I see that the left blogosphere are now so desperate that Sonic has moved from his Mon-Fri, 9-5 slot and that both he and Phil are across most of the threads. It’s also an answer to your question: I can go to a party hosted by a “left-winger” and have a good time discussing politics – why is that so hard on the internet?
September 14th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
philu: wow – that was rather strong language! I wasn’t demanding that it happen, I was suggesting that it might be a good way to teach him about manners – it is always a good thing to write a thank you to someone who has given to you – whether it be a simple pair of socks or a car. This is nothing to do with left-versus-right – it is simply to do with propriety. The fact is, a lot of people in this wonderful country of ours give a great deal of money to the tax department to help out those less fortunate. Why is it so repugnant to suggest that they might take 5 minutes out of their time to write a thank you?
When we donate to charities like the various “save the children” funds, we get pictures, bios, and thank yous from those we have helped – why should it be different with welfare? It is still charity (albeit without choice) – but it *is* still charity. If I were on a benefit and had the chance to personally thank someone for their contribution to my life, I would certainly thank them. Surely this is something your mother taught you.
I am sorry I come across as arrogant and pretentious – that is certainly not my intention.
I would like to extend to you the offer I extended to Sonic; come to my house with your son for dinner and let’s talk politics in a more friendly environment. No drugs though – while I would prefer to see drugs legalised (probably even more so than you and the Greens), it is (obviously) not legal at present and I don’t want to put myself in a dangerous position with the “law”
September 14th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
unauthorised are doing pot..on tv one..heh..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 14th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Oh – and phil – I don’t consider any kiwi inferior to me – I believe we are all equal and have the same opportunities to create the life we truly desire. John Key is a good example of this – and so is Rodney hide. They both came from low income families and made a real go of life.
September 14th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
tom hunter: thanks for your comment – that does fit very well in line with some of the “debate” I have seen here. We have had a couple of weeks of pretty good conversation and it seems to be going downhill again. But your comment makes a lot of sense. I think I will stick it out and try to look past the nasty stuff. I know from my own experiences in real life that we all want to make things better for everyone; I will just to seek out the fair comments amongst the chaff.
September 14th, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Wraith
Welcome to this blog mate. Set your tone and don’t let anyone else drag you onto their level. Somehow I don’t think they will be able to.
Cheers
September 15th, 2008 at 12:03 am
philu, just curious to know if the medication you are taking is state-funded or home-grown? And if you are taking the recommended dose? If so, what do you wash it down with?
September 15th, 2008 at 12:25 am
DPF it really is time to stop the distracting posts from Philu and Sonic.
They add nothing.
September 15th, 2008 at 1:01 am
Wraith: Right on and thanks. I’ve been really enjoying Kiwiblog but the thrust of debate is starting to get sidetracked. It’s getting bloody hard to find anybody keeping to the topic (sorry).
My own take on the poisonous tirade preceding Clark’s election date announcment is that the “trust” basic theme was probably planned yonks ago and Labour’s committed to it. Meaning stuck with it and too far down the track to change tactics. May they rue the day. Presumably the ‘slippery John’ epithet was gonna be laid on with a trowel also. Wouldn’t be so sure about that now though.
This is one issue that’s bound to backfire on Clark/Labour. Whether it’ll be enough to tip them out, I don’t know.
September 15th, 2008 at 3:01 am
Labour are such pedantic idealogues that having to tack in another direction, to prevent failure ,or having to admit reality really never occurs to them.
They honestly believe that they know best, and if any opinion is required they will give it to whoever is concerned.
Sad really.
September 15th, 2008 at 5:57 am
Glutaemus Maximus I have to disagree re. your comments about putting a stop to sonic/philu. DPF please don’t even consider censoring philu or sonic. If they’re attacked here then it can often sound just like tit for tat bickering and makes for very frustrating reading. However if we give them free reign to speak their mind then there is nothing more we need to do or say to discredit the motivations of the left. They say it all first hand for all to see – so much so that they could come under suspicion of being right wing plants. They both unselfconsciously expose how the left are unwilling to address the issue at hand. They seem to rather vent their outrage at facing the prospect of working for a living as if the selfish righties want to steal their leisure time. Keep it up chaps. We’ll have Labour below 20% yet.
September 15th, 2008 at 6:37 am
sonic, philu and Klarkula ; whenever there is a carbuncle or boil that cannot heal when encouraged, the only way to deal with it is via brutal and radical means; such as lancing it to spill forth the pus, so as to allow that part of the body to heal itself.
When will you three heal ? Yeah right dreams are free!
September 15th, 2008 at 6:54 am
NZD.JPY
My sentiments exactly.
D4J – I know they make your blood boil but think of it this way – especially in the case of Sonic: you’re the working class that betrayed his ideology decades ago by refusing to rise up and smash the system.
Trust me – that makes his blood boil every seething second of his life – which is why he’s constantly on the lookout for the new proletariat. When he finds it he’ll be more than happy to see it smash you.
September 15th, 2008 at 7:04 am
Hels may be going nasty but the clock is running out on her time in office.
Just as well we have all these Lefties joining in the nastiness and in doing so they’re participating in pushing Hels out he door. Nice.
September 15th, 2008 at 7:04 am
phil and sonic are white noise.
September 15th, 2008 at 7:07 am
lthough just the thought of being labelled white means they’ll now have to perform an impromtu powhiri at breafast to ensure their penenace in the eyes of the systerhood
September 15th, 2008 at 8:59 am
So is a Smear a Dirty or a Negative ? And when will the current idiots in power announce some policies of their own ?
September 15th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Clark is like Mugabe. There you go.
By the way i’m not asking anyone to vote for me, yet unlike Wussle Noman I don’t expect not getting voted for to get me into parliamant.
One of us grasps the concept of “democracy” better than the other I suspect.
September 15th, 2008 at 9:36 am
Phil:
wraith..you aren’t gonna like this..
..but i have known you such a short time..
..and already..i am convinced you are one of the most boring self-obsessed/self-congratulatory/smug people..ever..
..that’s apart from being an arrogant/pretentious twat..eh..?
demanding your ‘inferiors’..kiss your arse in gratitude..?
and you aren’t ‘insulting’ anyone..?
demanding my son write you a thank you letter..?
..fuck off..!
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)”
Wow, Phil, Wraith is right a simple “thank you”would be appropriate. Thank you Phil for helping to put Labour further down in the polls. People like you defending them certainly helps National.
September 15th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Ah yes, the meaningful nobility of kissing babies. Especially poor, brown ones. What a hero!
September 15th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
How many babies were actually kissed RRM are you as full of shit as always?
Why not call him a peadophile while your at it since that certainly seems to get results.
September 15th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
RRM
Remind me why Klark is the natural hero of “poor brown babies”.
How is it that a middle class farmers daughter who has never had a real job in her life and a woman who has never had children understand the needs of the poor?
September 15th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
“Thank goodness for the lack of “nasty politics” round here is all I can say!” Sonic
Handle it, it’s a blog, not etiquette class.